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Hosted by Masi Willis and Shannon Scott, Lead Like You Mean It is a leadership podcast for those who want more than inspiration—they want impact. We’ll help you lead from the inside out, with tools that stick and some truth that stretches you.
Everything Made Beautiful (00:39)
All right, well, welcome back to episode six Mace. How are we feeling? How are we feeling about Lead Like You Mean It episode six?
Masi Willis (00:49)
can't believe we're here. It feels like just yesterday we were sitting in a little cabin up in the North Georgia mountains going, you know what we should do? So the fact that we're at episode six and I'm excited about what we're talking about, excited's the best word I guess I could say. What about you?
Everything Made Beautiful (01:07)
Yeah, yeah.
I'm loving it. mean, you know, I said on a previous episode, going back over things that we know so well and saying them again, still helps me. there's nothing in me that's like, we've said that, let's move past it. It just, continues to be refining and helpful. And so I'm so glad. And today,
Masi Willis (01:20)
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (01:33)
Episode six means that we have made it to the last letter in the mile framework, which is evolve. And I would love to just hear you talk about, first of all, the word evolve, maybe define it for people because it's one of those words that can have different meanings in different scenarios. So ⁓ letter E evolve, what does that look like inside a leadership trajectory?
Masi Willis (01:42)
Yes. ⁓
Yeah. So let's back up just for those that might not.
have listened or heard yet, but the MILE framework is an acronym. is mirror. Really knowing yourself. So before we get into a leadership development and ⁓ building our leaders, what is the framework that we need to think about? It's not just bullet points, right? That drives me freaking crazy when people are like, just bullet point this and go do that. So that mirror is know yourself. We got to have that common language. We've got to understand ourselves to know what it's like to be on the other side. And then,
the
I being implement. Well now we got to lead ourselves because we know that here's the tools or the framework that we're going to do in implementing leadership development. L leverage like how do we take this multiply it into others multiply into our team or our family and then finally E is evolve. And I love that word because for me you know I'm not really the wordsmith kind of person but evolve to me feels like motion. It feels like it's a continuous
journey and it doesn't necessarily have a definitive end and evolve is it reminds me of myself because I feel like I myself have evolved and will continue to evolve. I think in my younger self I thought I would reach some pinnacle or I would get to some space and so in this framework you and I can unpack kind of what I you know I speak in analogies and metaphors but kind of what that looks like in leadership
development round evolve? Why does it matter to us? Why do you not end development? Why does it constantly have to evolve in organizations?
Everything Made Beautiful (03:41)
Yeah, because I think it might be easy for leaders to be like, okay, I've worked this program. I've gotten to the end of the mile framework and now I'm good. it does, ⁓ culture does not stay healthy without consistent tending in the same way that plants need tending. Our gardens need weeding. We have to stay on top of them. Flourishing is not accidental. It is incredibly intentional and
What I'd love for us to talk about today is just like we talked about weeds in a garden and things needing constant tending, there are things and we in Giant call them team kryptonite. And obviously kryptonite comes from the analogy of Superman. Our most powerful superhero has something that
Masi Willis (04:17)
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (04:36)
weakens him and renders him ineffective and that's what kryptonite is. And so we've talked about five consistent ⁓ kryptonites that will take down the health of a team and will be like cancer in an organization frankly. And so I'd love to just get into those a little bit. We don't have the time to go through every single solitary one but what would you say about
Masi Willis (04:38)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (05:04)
cryptonite holistically before we talk about each one.
Masi Willis (05:07)
Yeah, I love that you brought up the plants because you know we we talked about the greenhouse effect and I personally ⁓ have this side yard and I two years ago had all of it redone and I enjoyed it and I traveled so time away impacted it. It's shaded and so it stays really wet and before I knew it I was covered in weeds.
Now, had I every weekend that I was home or when I was at the house kind of tended to that garden, whether I sprayed weeds every now and then or pulled them up or pruned, it just took over. And a couple of weeks ago, I had to spend a lot of money to have it all revamped. And so if we kind of look at Evolve and this kryptonite, think about the kryptonites of organizations. Like, what are the elements that cause your gardens to get completely out of control?
Everything Made Beautiful (05:37)
Mm.
Masi Willis (06:06)
and what are the things that we don't see that weaken us that kryptonite weakens organizations and this is not just for one organization we have found that this is pretty much historically the top five killers in culture and in organizations without tending to them
they can creep in. I also like the metaphor of a building. Think about your home and you see a little water spot in the bathroom or underneath where your kitchen sink is and you look down the basement and there's like a little spot on the ceiling. If you just go paint over it, that spot of water internally will become...
Everything Made Beautiful (06:34)
Mm-hmm.
Masi Willis (06:51)
mold and grow and actually be toxic. So think about these kryptonites as, hey, these are the things that we think you need to constantly be looking for because this is what normally takes over and creates a toxic culture.
Everything Made Beautiful (07:06)
Yeah and left untended and left untreated it will grow. The thing that will grow without tending is dysfunction. The thing that will not grow without tending is health. And so the first team kryptonite that we've identified is called the accidental voice. So talk about that.
Masi Willis (07:27)
Yeah, accidental versus intentional.
you know, if we don't show up intentional, really thinking about what it's like to be on the other side of me, then I could accidentally fall back into things in my own behavioral makeup, my own leadership style that could rub someone else wrong. And so, for instance, as a connector, I have to know when I walk into someone that I lead that is a pioneer or I'm friends with some
who is a guardian. They're going to want me to speak in very bullet-pointed, direct, well thought out statements. No fluff, they don't need coffee. And I don't need to know how their weekend is. On the flip side of that, if I am accidental, I might come in with my cup of coffee and go, what y'all do this weekend? Let's just chit chat for 10 minutes. And it is driving them crazy. Especially the pioneer will feel like I'm wasting their time. So that, I have to know myself.
and
know others so that I can show up how they would want me to show up, not how I want to show up. And we talk about that accidental versus intentional in the realm of five circles of influence. We can be accidental with ourselves. I'm not real careful. can head talk real bad head talk into my mind and my spirit, or I can take things really, really personal when I read someone's text message. And if I'm accidental,
Everything Made Beautiful (08:48)
Mm-hmm.
Masi Willis (09:02)
with myself and I'm not really going hey remember this isn't personal this is a true fact statement as well as our families we also influence our teams our organizations and our community and so when you think about those five areas of influence we have to consider all the time am I being showing up accidental or am I showing up intentional and accidental leaders when they walk into rooms and
a team or when they retreat back and don't have strong direction, you could accidentally take your organization down because you haven't shown up in the best version of yourself for the best version of others.
Everything Made Beautiful (09:48)
And when we talk about these five kryptonites, especially, you know, we've come all the way through this leadership framework. Now we're to evolve. The risk of becoming accidental is really high once we know all this information, because we think
Okay, I know all that, I got it. Everybody knows what everybody is. We all know each other's voices. We all have learned each other. We know ourselves, we know them. But that's actually when we risk becoming accidental in our communication.
Masi Willis (10:21)
It's funny this week I was working with a client and a tension arose in two leaders. They run the same space. One does night, one handles day. And this whole tension created and literally the leader that I was talking to said, well I didn't intentionally do that to him. I said, exactly, you accidentally did it. And it clicked for him and he thought, ugh.
I accidentally showed up frustrating. I wasn't intentional at being frustrated. And it's a nuance there because he was trying to say, I wasn't trying to be mean to him. But when he shows up, his direction, his natural voice, he shows up as an interrogator.
And it was accidental. And I pulled the tool out and was able to say this in its fact is what caused the tension and the breakdown and how a customer didn't experience what they needed to because the two of you weren't communicating appropriately.
Everything Made Beautiful (11:12)
Yeah.
So good. So our first team kryptonite, the accidental voice, but the second one is the missing voice.
Masi Willis (11:34)
Yes, well, we've talked about five voices. We'll dig deep into that in the next series of what is each voice, but it's a leadership language. And every voice needs to be heard, valued, and appreciated around the table. A lot of leaders love to hire their mini-mes.
They think like me, they somewhat act like me, they can run things like me. But the best thing leaders can do is think about all five voices and make sure when they're making decisions, everyone is heard. What happens is when there's a missing voice, there's such a distinct uniqueness with each
Everything Made Beautiful (11:56)
Yeah.
Masi Willis (12:18)
voice that...
We need all of them. We need that nurture. They represent 43 % of the population. We need the guardian, because they're going to guard those rails for us and make sure we move profit forward. We need a creative who's thinking about the future innovatively. We need a connector that knows how to connect people, resources, all the dots, and can rally everyone around a cause. And that pioneer that can militarily, strategically think. Think about an organization. And you and I have dealt with this before, because even in some of your teams,
the past. You've had heavy nurturers or heavy guardians, but you are having to think innovatively how are we're growing this children's ministry, but like what are the future thoughts that we need to consider around parking and around building and around all of that. And the idea of the missing voice is when you know it's missing,
go find that substitute advisory person. It doesn't have to be on your team, but if all of the, like I have an elementary school, if everyone on your team is a nurture and a guardian, we need to go find a creative teacher or administrative person who's a pioneer that when we're in a moment of making decisions for the organization, every person is represented around that table.
Everything Made Beautiful (13:38)
So good because you miss the superpower of that voice if they are not represented there and it can become an echo chamber of just the loudest voices and a bunch of people thinking alike but not representing the congregation or the customer or whoever the end user is of a particular product or company. So yeah that's so good.
Masi Willis (13:48)
Mm-hmm.
We
had a ⁓ hospital ⁓ group that we had worked with in our past and one of the things we noticed when we looked at their executive board, they were all future thinkers. We tend to do that, right? We tend to hire upper level people to future thinking. Any voice can be a leader. Any voice can be a CEO.
anyone can lead organizations. It's what are you wrapping around you to make sure that you're representative? Well, what we realized in the hospital was there was no nurturer or guardian sitting at the table and most of their nurses and practitioners, guess what they are? Nurturers and guardians. So they actually created a board of...
each department and they had a representative that sat on the board of the hospital. So as the hospital executive team made decisions, that representative heard it, would take the complex situation back to his team, his nurturing guardian team representing all of the clinician and nurses, they would put their thoughts together of how it would impact most of the employees and bring that back to the table.
and that executive team would hear it differently. So they were forging expansion and had no idea their internal hospital equipment was dying all day long. So it's where you really have to think outside the box. Doesn't mean you need to hire specific. It's just how do you get them at the table?
Everything Made Beautiful (15:30)
This is so good. number one, accidental voice. Number two, the missing voice. But this third one, I have to say, I have personally witnessed this probably be the single biggest killer of culture, especially in my context, which has been primarily ministry, but that is called go to the source.
Masi Willis (15:56)
Yes, you're right. Ministry, ⁓ corporate America, it doesn't matter. It can be ⁓ family culture. ⁓ It doesn't matter which organization or team or an environment. It could be a sports team. When we have gossip,
it destroys. And so this tool is called Go To The Source because oftentimes, you know, if I was to look at, you know, my mom or I was to say to you, hey, Shannon, I really think you're gossiping right now. Ooh, that can be a little bit like.
No I'm not, I'm just saying this. I'm just venting to you. And so go to the source as the tool that basically we use in coaching to say, hey, Macy, when Shannon was at the, when we were in a meeting and you said something kind of curt and cut me off or didn't give me credit, and it really burned inside of me, I was so frustrated with you, and I went to the church like,
Everything Made Beautiful (16:32)
Yeah.
Mm.
Masi Willis (16:59)
lunchroom area or snack room and I looked at my friend Sarah and I was like, did you hear what Shannon said in that meeting? I mean, why does she always have to cut me off? I mean, I love her and all, but like that is so frustrating. And then Sarah says, yeah, she does that to me too. It drives me crazy too. All of a sudden three or four people are behind us. They hear it as well. They pipe in and go, she's done that to me too. We have just created this mess.
And Sarah has become a conduit to drama, gossip, and toxicity. I started it because you made me mad and I went to my friend Sarah. What the Go To The Source tool says or we use is, Sarah, you need to be the firewall. So when Macy comes to you and quote unquote is venting or is frustrated or is truly gossiping about someone's character,
you need to be able to say to her and be empowered to say, hey, Mace.
so that we can protect this culture, why don't you go back to the source? Why don't you go talk to Shannon? Find out why she cut you off or why she didn't have you present that material. If it doesn't work, let me know and let me come in with y'all and let's have a third party conversation. But we're really trying to shut down the toxicity when we are gossiping. The tough thing is, is some people need to get it off their chest. And you are that person.
Everything Made Beautiful (18:13)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Masi Willis (18:32)
me, right? How many times have you gotten an email that you can go, I know what client she's talking to and I hit the email to go to you first ⁓ and really to get it out, but I've even looked at the space where I say to my clients, yes you do sometimes need to get it off your chest. I need you to probably find someone outside your organization to do that with.
Everything Made Beautiful (18:33)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yes.
Yes.
Masi Willis (18:59)
Or
you definitely need to go to your leader or to a space where it isn't peer-to-peer. You are not gossiping like subordinately. You are not discussing like what is that discipline that you need to have. I do not want to pretend that we get frustrated and if we don't get it out there's a whole health issue there. It's really defining
Who's going to be willing to look at you and go, I hear what you're saying. I'm glad you've gotten it off your chest. You need to think differently about that person. I want to empower you to go back. Like who is the person that you can trust to do that? What do you think about that?
Everything Made Beautiful (19:41)
⁓
My leader at my previous organization said to our executive team that I was on, he said, it's my expectation that you are protecting me in rooms I am not in. And that was a big like, ooh, I gotta remember that. And it was a good check to be like, they're not here.
Masi Willis (19:56)
Mm.
Everything Made Beautiful (20:06)
they're not participating in this conversation is what I'm saying protecting them. And so I've now applied that to not just him but everyone. And I think the point that you made about people needing to vent is a good one. And it's true. And often we do need it's not even so much venting as it is. ⁓
Masi Willis (20:12)
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (20:25)
check me on this. Should I be as spun up about this as I am? Like I've called you before and said, this is how this sits with me. Am I crazy? That's usually what my question is. And you're like, this flew all over me. Talk to me about why this did. And a lot of times we'll say, okay, what's at the bottom of that? What's at the bottom of that? But when you call me about a client,
Masi Willis (20:27)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (20:50)
I am not in that organization. And so you telling me that information is not impacting the health of that organization. It is a third party. It's an outside source. So I agree. If you need to talk about something and we all do and none of us should be people that are not in community and have people who can say hard things to us. It does need to be outside the organization because inside the organization it undermines the health
Masi Willis (21:00)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (21:20)
of the entire culture because if you're saying it to them, you're probably saying it to them. And if they're saying it to you, they're probably saying it about you. So go to the source solves that. When I get triggered in a work environment, I got to go to that person. If I'm unwilling to go to that person, then it should not come out of my mouth anywhere else.
Masi Willis (21:25)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Well, and let's think about it, even in family culture. If I tend to want to be a fixer, so if my, I'm gonna use my family, my mom and dad and my brother and sister-in-law, if my parents were to come to me and just always vent about my brother, or my brother goes to my parents and vent about me, we can end up trying to step in and solve issues that could be offensive.
why are you telling me to fix this with mom and dad? why, Maci, why me and my brother can get into a place? So it's just always healthier when we can say, hey, you should probably just go ask them that question and go directly there. So I don't want people to think this is only in organizations or only on teams. It's in families too. And I think some communication problems break down in families because they don't go
Everything Made Beautiful (22:34)
Yeah, that's good.
Masi Willis (22:43)
directly to their sibling or directly to their uncle or whoever it might be to ask the question or believe the best.
Everything Made Beautiful (22:49)
Or in my case,
two sisters-in-law should not be talking together about their mother-in-law. Or two brothers-in-law should not be talking. It can get very dysfunctional in a hurry. So team kryptonites and family kryptonites would be ⁓ accidental voice, missing voice, go to the source. But then this fourth one is
Masi Willis (23:09)
⁓
Everything Made Beautiful (23:17)
⁓ I like this. This has given me such freedom in communication to have this language which is provisional plan promise. And this is three ways of communicating that can if not adhere to cause a lot of dysfunction but when adhered to can bring a lot of clarity. So just talk us through those.
Masi Willis (23:39)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, those words for you guys listening, it's the certainty that something is going to happen. How certain are we that the vision Shannon just had or the conversation my boss just said to me, are we, do we...
think this is a provisional idea, meaning it's the lowest of certainty. It's more like, I'm just throwing some ideas around and thinking about it. We're just like creatively dreaming about how we could expand this company or.
Everything Made Beautiful (24:09)
I'm just spit balling.
Masi Willis (24:18)
you know, oh I wonder what it would be like to start opening up on Saturdays. Well what happens with the voices when you think about 73 % of the people are present processors and thinkers and then the other 27 are future. So in those ideation moments, I wonder if we opened on Saturdays, now all of a sudden those present voice people are saying, especially nurturers, oh my gosh, what are our families going to feel like? What are the parents going to feel like? Are they going to miss?
Everything Made Beautiful (24:42)
Yeah.
Masi Willis (24:48)
people move into making things happen, going ahead, getting spun up over negativity around the idea, so it's provisional. When we can say that, we define it. The second one's plan. Okay, there is a structure. We're at the place where we need to make sure this aligns, this works, this is budgetary, we have the timing to do it. We're not quite to promise yet.
but we're making the plan and barring that everything goes right, we're probably gonna move into promise, but it could break down because something may end up stopping it. So like, don't live your life inside of it, but we are planning, we need to move towards it. And finally is the promise. It is happening. Barring no one dies or something implodes, I promise.
This has to move and here's the deadline that it happens in. What this tool does for us, and you mentioned it, is it saves us time. That is money. It saves us morale. It saves us just wasted sideways energy. Wrong direction. Because some people could be dreaming about something and go the wrong direction and if we had
Everything Made Beautiful (26:04)
Yeah.
Masi Willis (26:09)
more of a conversation of a planned moment to make sure it's happening. So this is a costly tool. This can be very costly. I have an example of this. used to work for a CEO of a quick service restaurant. He was such a dreamer. He was such a creative voice. And he would pop out, you know what we should do? You know what we should do? And he had five executive assistants around him. And those folks could move into action. And
When they moved into action, I realized having produced events for him that, hey, we probably need to bring clarity to what this is happening. Because nine times out of 10, your future dreamers, about 10 ideas, tomorrow morning, they might land on one. So 80 to 90 % of their creative and future thinking thoughts are just provisional. And so this language,
instead of them moving into action spending tens of thousands of dollars to go, hey, is that a provisional thought? Are we speaking provisionally here? Or if you were to come into the family and say, hey, honey, provisionally, I just want to know, what do you think about us selling the house? You know, if you were like, Jeff says that, and he did not define it as provisional, you yourself would probably go, my gosh.
I have clean the house out, I gotta figure all the details, we've got all these things coming up, and you've started using ⁓ unnecessary energy over something that was just an idea. Does that make sense?
Everything Made Beautiful (27:40)
Yeah.
It's so
good. Talk about this in the context of like parents and kids and like, you know, we've got, we've got CEOs, leaders who have high impact and high demand jobs who also have children who play sports or are taking dance and those sorts of things. Talk about how this can serve parents in terms of provisional plan promise.
Masi Willis (27:49)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Yeah, that's good.
Well, and I'll explain it and then having, I've never been a parent, I would love for you just to share with everybody, is there an example that this might have happened? I think about it as a child. When I was young, my daddy traveled, he was a pharmaceutical rep, so was always on the road.
Everything Made Beautiful (28:18)
Yeah, yeah.
Masi Willis (28:28)
and I played piano and I danced and I had I was a softball player and so when I wanted mom and daddy to be at something I wanted to know he was going to show up and so in this tool if we teach it to our kids we can teach the language to them and if you want to change the word provisional to something else this is just an idea then choose the word that makes the most sense but if you as parents and if daddy had said y'all I'm thinking
Everything Made Beautiful (28:51)
Mm-hmm.
Masi Willis (28:58)
What if we go to Disney this summer? Okay, I'm already there. In my mind as an eight-year-old, I am on, it's a small world, riding the boat around, right? But if we use this language and he were to say, hey kids, we've got a provisional thought about vacation, we're not planning it, this isn't for sure, and it's not a promise, just what are some ideas? Or, hey dad, are you gonna be at my softball game on Friday night? I plan to be.
Everything Made Beautiful (29:02)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Masi Willis (29:27)
I've got some people in town with work. So if I'm called to have to go to dinner with them, honey, I might miss your softball game, but I have it on the calendar and it's marked. If parents make promises, you better follow through. And you need to use those very sparingly to protect your children as they grow up, because what you don't want to do is make a whole lot of promises that you can't fulfill. So I promise.
Barring I do not die, there is nothing that could stop me from being at your high school graduation. There is nothing that could stop me from being at this moment that you've worked so hard for. So, provisional plan promise can work not only in your personal life with your family and friends, but also in teams, organizations, as well as communities. You know, we're planning to have an event in August
that's the fundraiser for the blah blah blah blah blah. But if you lived under a chamber that always made these promises and never delivered on them, you would be a very frustrated community.
Everything Made Beautiful (30:37)
Yeah, that's so good. Yeah, I've experienced that with my kids. ⁓ In fact, I knew that I had to be somewhere speaking at an event that was going to conflict with my daughter's end of the year high school musical. And I had the speaking date before the musical dates were announced. Otherwise, I wouldn't have taken the event. But I realized quickly
that it was less about me being there when she was doing the show and it was more about me seeing her do her role.
So I called the director and said, can I come to dress rehearsal so that I can see the whole performance and I can see her do her thing when you're effectually doing it as though there's an audience there because I'm unable to be in town. And she said, absolutely. And so it didn't matter a hilla beans to Ali that I wasn't there on Friday or Saturday because I'd been there on Thursday. And that
Masi Willis (31:25)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (31:41)
that has been like I promised to see her in the role and then I figured out how to make that happen. it was yeah kids kids and parents like
Masi Willis (31:48)
That's good. It's a great example.
Everything Made Beautiful (31:53)
Our words carry more weight than we realize, so let's be sure we're using them wisely and we're not making promises we can't keep, but we are following through on what we'll say, we say we'll do. So ⁓ my kids know if I say, let's go to Disney, we're absolutely going to Disney, because my daughter works there.
Masi Willis (32:09)
Exactly.
That
provisional thing is so big though. I think about it all the time. Recently, even with a client, they were like, I wonder if we should expand to this or acquire that. And the people on the team that are the guardians and the nurturers and present boys are like, we can't even run this one. Like, how are we going to expand? And it was spitballing the idea of what would that look like? Great moment to say, hey, is this provisional? And then when it moves into
Everything Made Beautiful (32:17)
it is.
Masi Willis (32:43)
plan to make sure what we just said that every voice is sitting around the table and that you are considering not only expansion creatively or connecting the dots or pioneering it through but how can the nurturers and the guardians help you think about all the people that you're going to need to make it happen and all the parameters that you're going to need to make for it to be successful.
Everything Made Beautiful (33:06)
And I think sometimes we don't want to tell present voiced people about our ideas because it feels like we who are present voices rain on everybody's visionary parade. When in actuality, if we were brought in earlier in the process, it's actually our desire to make it happen. We want to make these big grand ideas happen and are kind of jealous that we don't have those same ideas. It's when we're held out of the process until the very end.
Masi Willis (33:23)
So good.
Everything Made Beautiful (33:37)
and then expected to do it at the last minute that it's really a momentum and a morale killer for us. So trust your present voices and bring them in earlier because you'll be amazed at how quickly they will rally around the vision. Okay so we've got four of those. Our last one and I'm thinking specifically of an example that I want you to share on this one so if you don't get there I'll set you up for it but
Masi Willis (33:52)
Yeah, it's good.
Everything Made Beautiful (34:03)
This last team kryptonite is discretion and discipline. And I'd love for you to talk about what this is, but also an example you had of, we'll call it a water cooler conversation in the hallway that kind of took on a life of its own because of a lack of discretion and discipline.
Masi Willis (34:24)
Yes, you might have to set me up a little bit more because I've probably had a whole lot of those knowing my connector voice. discipline and discretion and discipline is the words that it says. What is the discretion you need to use? Who am I saying this to? What am I saying? And are you know, are they the right?
Everything Made Beautiful (34:27)
I will. Yeah, exactly.
Masi Willis (34:46)
people is this information to be given to this person and the discipline is do I have information that I need to be disciplined
to protect and take care of because is this person and is this information theirs to have? I referenced myself because one of the things for the connector is we do have lots of information and we love connecting with people and we love communicating. But what happens to us is we're so passionate and so excited, we have to remember that.
⁓ the discipline, the discretion, when and where should this be said to and to whom it should be said to. So set me up a little bit more on the water cooler example.
Everything Made Beautiful (35:33)
So you mentioned it a little bit in the last example, but there was a conversation that happened about possible acquisition in a hallway at a company.
Masi Willis (35:40)
Yes.
Yeah. So.
When we think about hallway conversations, we think about water cooler conversations, especially those of us that are excited about ideating, we can be unintentional in the, or accidental in this situation with discipline and discretion where we're standing around a water cooler and there was a conversation that was like, ⁓ I wonder if the expansion or this, this should happen. And what happened was someone overheard it.
that didn't know all the details, really didn't need to have the information, and didn't even know the journey it was gonna take, and got spun up and actually told it to other people, I think we're about to get acquired. And we probably all need to be looking for new jobs because our particular department will probably get removed or sold out. And he got really all...
been out of shape and it lasted for like a month and several people in that department were looking into other places and they were great employees only to find out it wasn't that they were getting acquired it was that they were looking at acquiring and growing and expanding so all this sideways energy got spent on
doing less of their job and thinking more about how do we get out of here and keep a job when in actuality had they never known they would have been doing their job to the fullest or if there was more clarity, they might have been thinking strategically. And so it's not only do I use this tool in moments that I need to say, does this person really need to know this information? And even in families, do I need to have this conversation with
Everything Made Beautiful (37:17)
Yeah.
Masi Willis (37:31)
you know, my sibling or is this something that needs to stay with me in my moment until I know I'm supposed to use it and then at that point in time look at when and where and who should know. I've seen this in organizations that have
You know, people have friends in different levels. And so, you might be in a department or a department head or an executive team and you have to have discipline and discretion that people know you know the information but when they're, when you're asked, you need to be prepared to go, that's not something I need to, I can discuss right now with you or in this place but I appreciate you asking but that's a no. Like how do we strongly say,
Everything Made Beautiful (37:52)
Yeah.
Masi Willis (38:17)
That's a line we can't cross. And I've seen someone go to a lower level, share stuff that came from an executive team, didn't use discipline and discretion, and eventually it caused lots of problems and that person was removed from their role.
Everything Made Beautiful (38:32)
Well, and this is especially important. There are a few voices and the connectors, one of them that information is currency and so often trading in what I know. ⁓
Masi Willis (38:43)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (38:48)
as a means of connection and that isn't necessarily bad but can be when discipline and discretion need to be in play. ⁓ The boss that I mentioned that said, protect me in rooms I'm not in, his name's Darren and one of the things that he said about this type of thing that has, it really informs the way that I communicate something when I'm leading people is people feel more or less important based on the way they hear something.
and it's so true right and so part of not part but discipline and discretion is as you said who needs to know this how do they need to know this when do they need to know this and in what medium so just practicing that with information and if we are
Masi Willis (39:19)
So good.
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (39:40)
great stewards of the information that we have and we kind of use the discipline and discretion filter before we ever share it and ensure that people that don't need it don't hear it. And there's an order to things and it does impact how valuable people feel to the organization when they hear something sideways, they don't feel valuable at all. If we're all sitting in a meeting and I'm a senior level leader and the first time I've heard
Masi Willis (40:03)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (40:09)
This information is when everybody on the staff hears it, I am immediately feeling differently than if I'd heard that behind closed doors as a senior level leader. So yeah, discipline and discretion so important.
Masi Willis (40:10)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I've seen, I've
seen this come. ⁓
you know, from excitement, right? Like, we've got this idea and I think we're going to do this and share it to a group of 8, 10 people with the desire just to get temperature check. Then all of a sudden, your executive team or your headquarters hears that this has been said and they're like, what? We're doing what?
Everything Made Beautiful (40:28)
Mm-hmm.
Masi Willis (40:46)
Wait, have you been thought about? And it immediately puts everyone on defense. So such a crucial tool of the, love how you walked through the factors of it. I don't have it right in front of me, but that when is so crucial to just like, is it too soon? Is it too early? Do we have enough framework before we need to announce or say or share any of this? Do we have all the knowledge? Is it like that's even in families and friendships? Like, am I talking about this?
Everything Made Beautiful (41:02)
Yeah.
Masi Willis (41:16)
before I actually have all the information? Have I actually gotten to the bottom of this? Or am I now talking about it with like 20 % of the information and it's just going to cause major problems when I didn't have all of the information?
Everything Made Beautiful (41:33)
So good. Well, those five team kryptonites are, first of all, an ever present risk in any organization because they grow without us tending to them. Whereas we have to spend so much time tending to our flourishing that if we're not careful, those things can creep in. And so that's why teams.
Masi Willis (41:41)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (41:56)
constantly must be evolving because we never reach an end. We continue around that circle of leadership growth and development. And so that is why the E in the Mile Framework is evolved. So would you just sum up the Mile Framework for us as we end this episode and this series so that leaders can lead like they mean it this week with that Mile Framework in mind?
Masi Willis (42:00)
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I want you to think about the journey what it looks like to be in continuous improvement We're never going to reach a pinnacle. We're gonna constantly be developing and putting a framework Around how we develop is the idea of the mile framework. It's not a sprint for a reason It's not one and done. It's not quick and fast the mile is to suggest it is going to be a long journey and the is mirror
Know yourself.
Every leader must turn the mirror on themselves. See the broccoli in your teeth. If Shannon knew something about me that she never told me and I found out that it was toxic and it was always broccoli in my teeth. Like I want to know. So turn the mirror, know what it's like to be on the other side of you. The second step is implement. And here it's to, when you know yourself, you gotta lead yourself. And so in our framework and how Shannon and I work and others do is we equip you with all the tools you need to
really elevate these different steps. L is leverage. So being able to take what you know about yourself and the tools that have led yourself and multiply into other people. How do you continue to perform while you pull performers up with you? How do you get someone up the mountain? If you're a Sherpa and summiting Mount Everest, they have to get the person they're pulling up there with them, but they've also got to get there. And the final one is evolve. I think this one is probably strategically my favorite part of
the process because it is going to continue, you're going to continue to evolve as an organization because new leaders will come in, new people will promote, your family will grow, you'll expand, new things will happen, and we have to constantly evolve and look at where are these toxic moments, where's the mold behind the wall, and we can't just paint over it and go, we did all that leadership training 10 years ago. A leader needs to make this
part of their culture because you'll want to get it healthy and then it's maintaining, right? It's just every now and then pulling the weeds or or pulling the drywall back and actually taking out the toxic mold and then repairing it appropriately. And so these five kryptonites let you know and we've given you tools to continue to evolve in a healthy culture and that's really how you end up leading the organization like you really mean it.
Everything Made Beautiful (44:56)
It's so good. Well, that wraps up this initial series of the Lead Like You Mean It podcast. We're going to take a little break and we are going to have some ⁓ arrival of fall, Labor Day, all sorts of things coming at us. And so we'll take a little bit of a break and then we will be back with our second series and we are so excited about that. So be sure to.
like and share and subscribe and all the good things with the podcast and stay connected with Macy and you can find all that information in the show notes and we look forward to seeing you when we return. Hope you go out this week and lead like you mean it.
Masi Willis (45:27)
Mm-hmm.