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It's hard being a dad. Life suddenly becomes very unselfish. Relationships, friendships, finances, fitness - all of these things can slide, as you desperately try to keep things under control.
You don't want that to happen. I haven't met a dad that wants to face adversity with these things. They don't want to balloon in weight, check their bank balance for a nursery fee, or dread going home because their relationship is on the rocks.
So we built Dadversity to help inspire dads to take action. This is the place where you take the first step to become a better version of you. Ready? Let's get to work.
I'm gonna get this kind of middle class, independent, gorgeous woman in my life. I gotta sort my shit out. Chaos is often where I'm at my most comfortable. But, God, it got harder and harder for her. Yeah.
Jon:It was pretty tough. Like, all the good things that I have is because of a positive contribution that she's made.
Nathan:Dads, we are back. The Dadsversity podcast roadshow continues into, I think, is actually episode 20 today, John.
Jon:Yeah. No worries.
Nathan:I think we've hit a new milestone. So you are, yeah, guest number 20 up on the pod. How are you today?
Jon:Yeah. Yeah. Pretty good. Yeah. Today is like a strong day, you know.
Jon:Well, so the weather's good for anybody watching outside of the UK. Pretty much the weather is in all of our conversations, but it's a really good day. Lovely and hot. And for all our woes last night in the Euros, England did top the group, which means we've got a better a better run-in to the final. Yeah.
Jon:It's a good day.
Nathan:But, look, the hangover has subsided a little bit. It was ambitious actually last night because I don't drink a lot. And and we were 5 pints deep at halftime.
Jon:I mean, that's because you need to. Yeah.
Nathan:We got to the pub, like, half an hour before kickoff. So my maths ain't great, but that felt like a fairly quick pace. It was red hot in the pub. Everyone was in a great mood because you as you say, rightly, the sun was has been shining for the last 3 days now, which is criminal. I don't know what to do with myself.
Nathan:But I, being a poor one day.
Jon:Yeah. Yeah. Really? Just, yeah, just the lack of ambition, a lack of energy. Yeah.
Jon:It's strange, really. I don't know what happens to these players, but they leave their clubs and come through England because they just seem to, they just seem to get, I don't know if it's nerd, like, is it like they're overwhelmed by it all? Do we help as supporters? Probably not. You know, what is it that happens to them?
Jon:Because they're amazing for their clubs. And then they come to England and they just seem to have a bit of a brain fart. I don't
Nathan:know. Crazy. You got the bit. I read a tweet last night. I'm not sure what you call tweets anymore.
Nathan:Now it's become x. Yeah. Anyway, I read it last night. We've got the best player in in Spain. We've got the top goal scorer from Germany.
Nathan:We've got player of the season in in England, and we just look like a bag of spammers. I wish you.
Jon:Yeah. They're kids.
Nathan:Crazy, isn't it? But, hey, we, we move forward with Yeah.
Jon:We move on through.
Nathan:We John, we are we're going through anyway. Semi optimistic, although the expectations have been dampened. But the real story behind the pod is is all about you today, John. John Stanners, who are you? Where did your journey start?
Nathan:And, yeah, you've been through some pretty interesting times, which we're gonna dig in. The first time we've discussed a topic like this on diversity as well. So it's a a really interesting one. Breaking new ground today. And so let's start with you, John.
Nathan:Who are you? Where were you born? Let's talk about your childhood and see what see what behaviors you picked up going into adult life.
Jon:Yeah. Gosh. Yeah. I feel like there's been a few chapters only looking back. You never know when you're in the moment, but, like looking back, I feel that there's been a few significant chapters that I've shaped around people in my life and certainly shaped around the day and for the better that's for sure.
Jon:Yeah. Where do I start? We were talking and you said, do you, cause we're connected through work, aren't we? And, you mentioned about my LinkedIn profile says a dad, a husband, and then my professional stuff. And you said, what actually comes first?
Jon:And I said, you're genuinely like being a dad and a husband does come first. And I've only really to learn more about what motivates me in life as I've got older and gone through these chapters. And actually, supporting others and helping others thrive is where I feel I'm at my best. I feel that's the light. The darkness, I think, is where I probably suffered a little bit teenage years.
Jon:I really struggled with life as a teenager. Don't I I don't know why. I just didn't even know my place in the world. I found I mean, I'm a working class lad. I come from, a mining community in the northeast.
Jon:Not that you'd tell from my accent, but that's where I origin originally, Kitten was born and grew up there until the early nineties. And then dad's a bricklayer, and he was always away a lot. And mum and dad said, look, this is silly. Let's get together as a family. We need to move down south.
Jon:And then I think that's where I, this transient nature I've actually learned to embrace over the, over my chapters of my life. But at the time, I think maybe it was difficult, particularly as this kind of longing for community and impacting groups. Yeah. So I really struggled through teenage years. I've been I was a bit disruptive, didn't really get on at school at all.
Jon:I was very sporty, and that kept me out of trouble. I probably didn't muck about and hustle around with the best of groups. Let's say that. And I didn't really know what I was doing well, I till, really, I hit sort of 2021. And then I met Laura, which I'm sure we'll get to down, down the path.
Jon:Laura is now my wife, but at the time she was some somebody who certainly influenced my life positively. And I was, oh, crap. If I'm going to get this kind of middle class, independent, gorgeous woman in my life, I've got to talk my shit out. This isn't going to happen unless I really get my act together. So having that as a purpose, and actually over the years, we've been together more than half our lives now.
Jon:Yeah. 23 years, I believe it is. We haven't been married that long, but we've been together 23 years. We've been married half life. But yeah.
Jon:And, I I I just found we had it was quite a chaotic upbringing until I met Laura, and Laura was a much more kind of straight balanced individual, and it keeps me grounded. Yeah. We had a lot of chaos screwing up, a lot of chaos. And we experienced homelessness as a family, and I think that kind of constantly moving around. But one thing that is definitely a blessing from all of that is us as a 5 family members.
Jon:We came really close because that's all you got. Yeah. And we, we, we came really I'll tell you a story about kind of in between creamlessness. So we lived in like a bed set for a period of time and my bedroom was actually the kitchen alley. So we used to pull a mattress out from underneath my sister's bunk beds.
Jon:We used to pull it into the kitchen. We used to pull down the oven door. And I used to, remember when we used to have headphones and cassette players? It's hard to listen to like now 24 or something like that. Maybe it was a bit maybe it was now 18, actually.
Jon:Maybe not 24. Now 18, which shows my age. But I used to listen to that, and that used to just be my space, which is mad, isn't it, when you think about it? But like that, I was really content. Mhmm.
Jon:Really content just on my mattress, listening to my music, just in my own little world and in my thoughts. And I've always been like that. I've always been in my head, and that can be a blessing in in some cases, but it also can be very destructive. And getting out of my head is a process that always I'm that's never off. I'm always trying to navigate what's in my head, positive and negative.
Jon:So it's a little snapshot of up to my twenties, mate.
Nathan:There's a lot there, isn't there? What what was the I I'm intrigued by this because I it it sounds like we've not spoken about this before, but my upbringing was, fairly similar to yours. We had, John, 14 houses, just renters when we were growing up as kids. Yeah.
Jon:I think
Nathan:it was 14 or 15 or something. But it was like you'd stick somewhere for 6 months and then bounce to the next one, and then you do a year and then bounce to the
Jon:next one.
Nathan:Lord would sell it, whatever. And so that seems like a a fairly similar story to our to mine, and I also didn't get along with school well at all.
Jon:Right. And I don't know why.
Nathan:I don't know if it was a like, for me, it was always a lack of focus, a lack of interest. I just didn't enjoy it that much. I I never felt I don't know, a sense of of belonging, really. And and I'm intrigued about how you feel about this because as I've gone through life, I've really struggled to be comfortable in one place.
Jon:Yeah. There's definitely something in that dude. Like, I but I it's weird because it's a very chaotic environment. We're just when we're describing the mutual upbringings. And chaos has become my friend over the year, and I've brought that into my professional.
Jon:Like, big transformational change programs, chaos is often where I'm at my most comfortable. You I feel like you're able to navigate and become incredibly resourceful. And there is a little bit like I was reading a quote the other day. You know, the person who says, oh, it is what it is. Just know that they've been through tough times because they figured it out that it is just what it is.
Jon:And it is all relative in that moment. It is all relative. Yeah. So I'd I mean, I lost school. I loved being amongst my peers.
Jon:I went to an all boys' school in a city, pretty tough. But I loved it. But I just didn't the academic side, the kind of regimented process of it all. Oh, man. It gave me a nosebleed.
Jon:Like, I really struggled. And that's when I become disruptive. So that's the darkness for me. If you cage me in, I can become quite disruptive and destructive. And it's not because I'm a pain in the ass.
Jon:I just I'm looking for something. I'm searching for it. I'm searching for something more meaningful for me than that is because structure is really meaningful for others. For me, I just needed a bit more chaos.
Nathan:Yeah. We're the same. And by the way, I talk about the uncertainty in life as a kid, and I feel exactly the same as you. I wouldn't change it for the for anything because it would give this level of this almost attitude of just don't care. I don't really see bad news as bad.
Nathan:I just don't care. You just walk through it. And, actually, I speak to a lot of people who come from varied backgrounds on this part, and dads who have had the most insane upbringings with with real wealth in the family. Mhmm. And they are crippled by anxiety.
Nathan:Mhmm. Just can't live up to what the family has done to this point. And they are crippled by it. Like they are terrible. And I know it sounds pathetic.
Nathan:She you've had loads of privilege. What's wrong with you? But it's just the nature of it. Isn't it?
Jon:Yeah. Well, like I said, it's all relative, mate. It's all relative.
Nathan:Yeah. A 100%. It's really interesting. So you're a dad now?
Jon:I am. Yeah.
Nathan:What was the advice? This is, this is something probably later for the podcast, actually. What's the advice to your kids if they're going through school in a similar mindset? Oh, mate.
Jon:Oh, it's difficult because I have 2 children who are very different polar opposites. Similar in some ways, but mainly polar opposites. My daughter is 10 now, and she's very conscientious, studious, deep reader, just absorbs books, consumes some food like it's insane. And I'm not particularly not a reader. I'm neurodiverse and dyslexic, so reading's a real mission for me.
Jon:She just reads a book. And then my youngest, he's on the neurodiverse track. So, in many ways, is a different conversation for both of them. But my advice to them is embrace the peers, embrace relationships, embrace the trouble, because I find going through relationship, falling out with each other, make up some breakups, all of these sorts of they're the building blocks that get you prepared for when you move into the future of work. It's not just about your academia.
Jon:Your academia stuff helps. It gets you your mind going. It gets you learning how to process things logically and, some, logical thinking and all these sorts of things. It is important, but it's the relationships. It's the meaningful impact you can have on your peers, the contribution in class.
Jon:It's the support and cheering on your classmates as well. Like, all these things are the stuff you you need to be embracing. Because when you get into the real world, the whole individual thing, my individual grades, my individual marks, doesn't mean so much anymore. It's more about, how do we get on? Can I make stuff happen?
Jon:Can I contribute to my with my colleagues? Can I make an impact? And all those relationship things that you work in school will help you be more resilient when you get into the workforce. For me, that's the sort of stuff I talk to my kids about all the time.
Nathan:Yeah. I like that. I like that. I I feel the same as you. I in school, I thought it was criminally overrated.
Nathan:And since I've left school and I've got a little bit older, I think it's criminally underrated in terms of
Jon:Work done.
Nathan:Yeah. In terms of the behaviors that are most important when you go through adult life. Because I think you really do learn some crucial behaviors at school, and I'm not necessarily talking about the work and the outcome and the grades and everything else. And whether you go on to college or uni or not, or your kids go on to college or uni or not, I think the behaviors of showing up every day and being consistent and working really hard towards something is actually just really important to learn. Whether you homeschool or whether you put them in school or whatever you're doing now, I think it's just really important for your kids to just try and and develop the behaviors of working hard every day and and and striving towards something.
Nathan:There's a lot of noise at the moment, isn't there, about higher education and why university is such a waste of time? But, again, I would semi disagree with the behaviors you learned there. Probably pretty important, aren't they? And I
Jon:agree. The behaviors are definitely the kind of independence with dependence on your peers. I think all of that is the importance. That that fit, that really matters for me. Yeah.
Jon:Yeah. It's it's an interesting time and but it's been a ride for us. So I've so I met Laura and then we had a simply wonderful period of my work got me traveling the world. So Laura traveled with me where she could. Laura is a pediatric nurse, so she got really into kind of her career and putting other families and wouldn't talk about work.
Jon:That's like a real proper job, by the way. And we it it felt really simple. And then we had kids. And, wow, it was like, everything changed. And I feel like that was the next significant chapter.
Jon:So it was like my up to my teenage years, well, amongst, like, house meeting Laura, coming up to then child having children of her own. It was just it's such a weird process because I find parenting actually quite challenging. I get told when you take it on really well, you're very calm, very patient. But I'm telling you, Nathan, I am working fucking hard at it. I'm trying really hard to be patient.
Jon:Truly trying really hard not to overreact to things. But it's been a process. And then we were so fortunate with her first because she was such an independent young lady. She still continues to be. I'm so proud of her.
Jon:And then my son was just he's like having a puppy in the house nonstop, just like having a puppy. He crashes into things. He's up first. He's the noisiest. He's, like, the most energetic.
Jon:And, you know, crikey, we'd be boring. I'd think as a family, if we didn't have him around. But, like, he's just like an a bundle of energy. And it's been a process of us having to understand what that looks like, and it's been challenging with him. And I think it's been difficult because of behavior.
Jon:It's then again, we're talking about the school thing. Like, he has flushed the wrong emotion, but unfortunate which all emotions are valid. But unfortunately, it does manifest sometimes into behaviors that are not valid and that we wouldn't want to see. And, often it can be violence as an outlet for him, although he's getting much better at self regulating. And we're doing much better at helping him through that.
Jon:A little tip for anybody. We did a 10 weeks Barnardo's course. It's free. It's difficult to get on. It is tailored towards neurodiverse or some sort of challenging parenting and children relationships.
Jon:It was game changing, Nathan. It was brilliant. It it's for it's free, obviously, through charitable donations. But it was 10 weeks, hour and a half, and you go deep where you get facilitated sessions. You go deep with other peers, other parents, and you do a lot of self reflection on your own childhood.
Jon:And I think going through that introspection really helps you understand some of the behaviors that you're bringing through and then how you are able to navigate those moments. And it has been a game changer for us and Nora, for sure. And it's really helped us get through that. Because we're on track now. We I feel like parenting, we're getting better at it.
Jon:I feel like our children are going up up an age bracket now. Although we're getting squeezed, we've got our kids who still need dependent. My parents are needing a bit more as well, so we're in that squeeze age. But it's been a remarkable ride. It's a weird thing because people say it's unconditional love.
Jon:But I can't describe what it feels like to be a dad. I can't describe the that unconditional love and affection. But there are just some magic moments in life that you just like and then they they might only be about 5%. I think 95% is just fucking hard work. It's hard graft being a dad and being any parent.
Jon:That 5% magic, it doesn't happen in any other walk of life. When it hap you can't experience it. Any in any other job, winning trophy, like, none of it. Just that 5%. It's a weird thing.
Jon:I I haven't got the vocabulary to describe it, but it's like, it's an intense feeling of just sheer joy. It's amazing.
Nathan:What was the process you went through? You said you had to work really hard to become better. Presumably, you were fairly similar to me in terms of lacking patience in the early days because I used to just, cut. And they did something when they were really young. They just used to irritate.
Nathan:And you really do have to work at it, don't you? You mentioned that Bernardo's course, which is introspective and that reflection on you and your childhood. Did you do anything else?
Jon:There's been a number of things. I definitely think the process of being what I found being a parent or being a father is actually it's the majority of the work you've done yourself. So the introspection thing, the take when moments happen, trying to get somebody out the house for school, trying to get that sort of stuff. Just those little micro moments where it can easily just flap. And you raise voices, and it gets a little bit chaotic.
Jon:And they're okay. Crikey. We're all normal human beings. But I think what I've what I've got practice that is taking the time to think about those moments. What could I do differently?
Jon:Did I first of all, did I really enjoy that moment? No. Did any of us benefit from my own behavior? No. It's and it and it it takes real discipline and to go through it with yourself.
Jon:And then the other thing that I do religiously, which Laura doesn't tend to open up so much. Like I said, we've been together more than half our lives. I'm the more open, so I'm an open book. You'll get what you get. Actually talking with Laura is also a critical that and I and I know it's difficult sometimes for us men.
Jon:And I know the stigma is dads don't talk enough. But, honestly, if you don't talk, there is no help. That's what I found. So I've found talking to my mates about these things, talking to my own parents about these things, talking to Nora about these things has helped me get, I guess, the be the the development I've needed. Because there's nothing out there.
Jon:There's not I read a stat the other day. It was a lady actually who was commenting about postnatal depression. And I'm not, for one second, suggesting I had this. But she said men don't get screened for postnatal post natal depression. Women do religiously.
Jon:It's part part and parcel of being being being a mother. But men don't. Now why is that? Like, why don't we think about the emotional impact it has on men as being a so I blend into a lot of that. I do have a bit of coaching and counseling every now and then.
Jon:I find that help, just having an independent outlet. And I would encourage anybody to try that. So I think the introspection stuff, talking, like dudes talk, you gotta get it out and, and those sorts of things. And then, yeah, that has helped. And then we hit like the most impact in, so which I'm sure we'll get through in a second, which all of this was the building blocks for me to get through that most significant chapter.
Jon:Because it's if you don't do this stuff, man, you like, it's your your brain's a muscle. It needs you need training. It needs fitness. You gotta freaking lift weights. So it's like that.
Nathan:Yeah. We say it a lot, mate. There's not adversity's coming for everyone at some stage, and you've gotta be ready, haven't you? You've gotta have the frame to, yeah, descramble your mind and be ready and know exactly what to do at at these critical moments. You were traveling the world with Laura.
Nathan:Your work's flying. She's loving life. You're loving life. All these great experiences. You've had kids suddenly.
Nathan:That's gonna be a massive shift. That doesn't compare, does it, to the next chapter? Yep. And No. Probably the biggest moment of your life to this point.
Nathan:Right?
Jon:Yeah. Without doubt. Yeah. Give me a moment. Yeah.
Jon:Yeah. I promise they wouldn't do this.
Nathan:Hey, listen, mate. My my party trick is is crying on this podcast. It's been, we've done 20 episodes, and I think I've cried about 3 62 times. This is, obviously, John, this is a topic that lots of people never have to tackle. And we talk about having frameworks for certain situations in life, and they just don't.
Nathan:There's not an occasion where you just gotta treat doesn't exist. Does it? Like, it's hard to get through these moments.
Jon:I mean, you said it doesn't exist. 1 in 1 in 2 women get diagnosed with breast cancer.
Nathan:Yeah.
Jon:And and Laura's diagnosis was not yeah. It was pretty rough.
Nathan:And how old are the kids at this point?
Jon:They would have been 9 and 6. Pretty recent history, really.
Nathan:Contextually, they they're they're loving it. They're in primary school. They're going through the thing. They're doing all the stuff, and they don't have any context as to what this even is. Cancer lands.
Nathan:It's like Right.
Jon:And the whole process of even just, hey, This is happening. I mean, Laura went to the appointment on her own first because she felt it was just a cyst. There wasn't gonna be anything to worry about. So I didn't know it fell. And then our mate and they even had it on the bloody note.
Jon:Laura came alone. What's this? What? Yeah. But this when Laura went to get the result, that was it.
Jon:And I vividly remember the day. It was on a Wednesday Thursday. Laura normally works on days. So we put the kid put the kids in after school club, and then I normally pick them. So it was a Thursday, and then I picked them up, and mom was cooking dinner.
Jon:And then Laura come in, and then she went, oh, I'm I'm off to the gym. I'm like, you're alright. Low? Kid's about to go to bed. Anyway, chaos in the house.
Jon:I was like, yeah. Okay. Fine. Well, yeah. Have fun.
Jon:And then literally she walked out the door. It must have been to me, it was like seconds. She'd have been off to the gym. I was like, oh, shit. She had that hospital appointment straight.
Jon:And I was just like, oh, what what about? Anyway, so I've got the kids to bed, and she come in, and, yeah, and she told me there. And then I was just like, oh my god. So, yeah, we went through, it was a riot, mate, really tough period. So just in summary, it was like 12, 12 months, 6 to 8 months chemo chemotherapy, 3 months radio, 2, 2 odd surgeries.
Jon:Yeah. And that chemo was fricking nasty shit. And Elora's straight down the middle. It's pretty tough. Quits her teeth, gets all the stuff.
Jon:She does distance training for running, and she'd done a few triathlons in her time. And she was like, I'm gonna hit this hard. She said, I'm gonna go to the gym after each treatment and get prepared for the next one, basically. Really inspiring going through it. But, god, it got harder and harder for her.
Jon:Yeah. It was pretty tough.
Nathan:Yeah. It's it's brutal, isn't it? We I I can't imagine when you're going through that and you have to have that conversation at home or even, like, from a doctor's perspective, giving you that news.
Jon:Did you tell the kids? We did. Yeah. We did. Yeah.
Jon:Yeah. Yeah. It's like just open book behavior. So my youngest, he wouldn't have Otto wouldn't have really got it. I think he understood in in some form.
Jon:Heading my daughter, she really did understand it, but there was he'd got, like, little books to read and his eyes were that was nighttime reading, like, going through it. And I think that kinda helped.
Nathan:And what that was around education of
Jon:Yeah. Just like little stories. So little story books just help the language is much easier for the children. It's better for me in many ways. It also just became like a narrative and a dialogue in the house.
Jon:So so I'll take them to school. Mommy's going to hospital today. She'll be back later. She'll be in bed. And we're really grateful, really fortunate Laura had her in space so she could put us up away.
Jon:But it just helped with that. So it's when they came if they came in from school or whatever, and it was like Laura's resting, it's really easy. It's just gonna look, money's resting. She's gonna ask to say, all is good, but she just haven't. Yeah.
Jon:And it's it again, it's this encouragement of just being open. Naturally, I was getting upset at times, and I found it really helpful for them to understand that he was upset, that it's not easy getting through this. But going back to the building blocks of becoming a parent and stuff in many ways, that they had helped
Nathan:because it was
Jon:a high stressful environment, as I said. Navigate while still working, still working, trying to support the home. Would and then and then, of course, we just had COVID in that period as well. So it comes straight out of COVID, straight into Laura's diagnosis. So we had to put this period of just like, for somebody who's taking this load, somebody taking the fucking piss.
Jon:He's my French, but it was just like, yeah. So we had a challenging time through COVID where we all had a bloody challenging time through COVID. And then we went straight into Laura's help needs. Yeah. Then that took us on to, yeah, mid early last year.
Jon:So talking to the kid, I think putting them as part of the process, understanding how they could help. I think we talked a lot about a lot with them about how they can help us, how they can help mommy and daddy. We talked about, like, this is team standards. We're all gonna come together. Yeah.
Jon:But she's good now, right?
Nathan:Yep. Look, not every, every story has got an ending. And, and thankfully, this one's a positive one. Laura's to fighting fit and, and everything's on the right track again, isn't
Jon:Yeah. Yeah. It's an inter it's an interesting process, even the pope, the cancer, the type of cancer Laura had. So she had to go through, so it accelerated the menopause and all these things for her. And for me, it's I'm good because Laura's cancer is clear now, But bless her.
Jon:She's going through her own process now. So in many ways I think we've dovetailed. So where I really struggled when she was going through the treatment, Laura just said it so inspirational. And then in many ways, the kind of the react, the reality of what we've been through. We've dovetailed nicely.
Jon:I, and I think that's serendipitous. I wouldn't say that's engineered. I think it's just serendipitous how it's happened for us that we've just been able to dovetail through that process. One could argue it's probably all the things we've done in the, you know, previous time of open conversations and these sorts of things. Yeah.
Jon:Maybe. But I think there is a little bit of serendipity in there as well. What did you what
Nathan:did you learn about yourself during those moments? What's the thing that you look back on now and think, Jesus, I never knew I was I had that in me. Or is there any kind of behavior you're learning that that came out the other side?
Jon:I've always known there is no John today without Aurora in my life.
Nathan:Mhmm.
Jon:Like, all the good things that I have is because of a positive contribution that she's made. That period really cemented it. It was like, yeah. You know? So there's definitely that reflection.
Jon:It's also when we talked earlier about the chaos and the routine. Like, having children almost pushes you into a routine. So I had spent more time at home than I'd had done for a very prior and travel stopped. COVID was good for that. Travel stopped.
Jon:Post COVID, travel was still it still wasn't seen as the right thing to do. So I wasn't on flights. I wasn't going around the world. I was at home. And, actually, I I learned I can do the routine thing.
Jon:I can get up. I can get the kids ready. I can get back from school, run, do the do a little bit of cleaning up, get ready for work. I can do that thing, and I can be on the clock thinking about how we go through that process. And although it is mundane, at the time for me, I needed that.
Jon:I needed the routine. I needed the structure. And it just goes to show you that for all the chaos that I enjoy, actually, in moments of when it's really fucking tough, just having some very clear actionable steps every week. You gotta do these things, and that's a win. Get them done.
Jon:There were celebrations. It's was really helpful at the time. So that was definitely some learning. Yep. And then the other thing which I talked about very loosely earlier about opening up, I started to think about how I can take care of myself, so I started doing some walks.
Jon:But I was going into my own head, and it became a bit dangerous. So I then learned in to mate, look, would you come for a walk with me? Because Lord and I have been looking for so long, they wanted to know about how are we and wanted to and I'm like, I don't really wanna talk about this. I'm trying to trying to come up out of this now. So then I leant into talking to peers and colleagues and reached out to them.
Jon:And walking and talking has become a thing, mate. I now do I've got many lined up, and I've done many in the past. I'm extremely grateful for all everybody that's been on a walk and a talk with me. But we go for a walk, and there's something about walking side by side, not looking at each other where you both open up. I've traveled most of the UK, obviously, things I haven't seen.
Jon:I've met people I've never met before, and I journal about it. So I do the walk and talk, and I journal. And those things have been epic. It's just getting me up out of the realities of the the shit times. And I've said it in the par I've said it previously in the podcast, and I'll say it again.
Jon:You've gotta you've gotta talk about this stuff because there is no care for you if you don't talk. There's no support because there'll be those who need it. So those have been big things for me, and it continues to be. And, actually, other people have got value from it. And I think me, in a way, starting it from a place for myself, it now becoming valuable for others has been a real motivation for me to do it.
Jon:So yeah. Yeah. Walking and talking. Hey, mate. There you go.
Jon:There's some advice.
Nathan:I I that should become a podcast, by the way. This should be the old GoPro strapped to your head, and then you and your guests should be walking up mountains with a microphone because that'll be something pretty special, wouldn't it? But, wow. John Stanners, The guy from the the northeast from a little mining town has done a lot, isn't he?
Jon:Yeah. And it it's it's I'm extremely grateful for people who have positively impacted my life through through it I I think it's a fallacy to think they're self made or anything like that. It's never self. It there is part you gotta you gotta love yourself. You gotta fall in love with yourself and make things happen.
Jon:But, I mean, god, it doesn't happen on your side. There's always somebody who has contributed to that success. And, yeah, like my my god bless my parents. They've always created an environment to just go after things. They haven't had the resources, but in terms of the mental state and environment push you forward, yeah.
Jon:It's there's always somebody else. I I I don't know anybody who's really self made. Like, it's impossible. I just don't believe it. There's a whole load of luck as well.
Jon:Laura's prognosis was lucky. Laura's post treatment was lucky. There's a little bit of luck in everything, and I don't think I get talked about enough either. Yeah.
Nathan:That's the message for dads who are probably going through something similar right now, isn't it?
Jon:Yeah. Yeah. And open up. You gotta talk about this stuff. Yeah.
Jon:You gotta, it, it, the, there isn't a support there unless people know. And if you can't if you I don't if there if it's difficult to do it with your friends, if it's difficult to do it with, your partner, there are channels you can go to. There are I I I strongly recommend it. Listening to things like this is extremely valuable. Building a community, having a support network is invaluable.
Jon:It's the only way to do it.
Nathan:Yeah. We'll direct some dads to you, and hopefully that can spark some more walking talks as well because it seems like
Jon:Oh, yeah. Yeah. I'll be honored.
Nathan:Yes. John, thank you so much for opening up, matey, and telling that story. There'll be dads out there who are going through similar right now. Quite depressing, but but it's inspiring to hear your your story as well. And, yeah, the love for Laura and the kids and, you know, it's just it's magic.
Nathan:So thanks so much. Alright?
Jon:Yeah. You're welcome, mate. And, Nathan, yeah, this is great what you're doing, mate. So cheering you on as well, buddy.
Nathan:Thank you, mate. Thanks for the Cheerio.
Jon:See you.