Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
In this powerful Thanksgiving episode, host Justin Siems sits down with A320 Captain Jake Tishman to discuss one of the most inspiring aviation journeys you'll hear. Jake shares his decade-long battle with an autoimmune disease that threatened to derail his dream of becoming an airline pilot at every turn—from getting medically disqualified from the Naval Academy to facing multiple surgeries and hospital stays while trying to complete his flight training.
Despite the setbacks, Jake persevered through:
This episode goes beyond the typical aviation career story to explore resilience, gratitude, and finding perspective through adversity. Jake's candid discussion about learning to appreciate the smallest victories—even just having the energy to get out of the car—offers valuable lessons for anyone facing challenges in their career or life.
Whether you're a student pilot facing obstacles, an instructor dealing with setbacks, or an airline pilot who rushed through training, Jake's story reminds us all to appreciate where we are and recognize that our unique paths shape who we become.
Plus, there's plenty of good-natured ribbing about Ohio State vs. Florida State football, corporate aviation perks, and the reality of chasing airline seniority numbers.
Pilot to Pilot is the podcast for anyone who flies — or dreams about it. Host Justin Siems sits down with airline captains, bush pilots, CFIs, and everyone in between for honest conversations about the path to the cockpit, the grind of the career, and the love of flying that keeps us coming back. Whether you're a student pilot chasing your first solo or a captain with 20,000 hours, there's a seat for you here. New episodes weekly.
Episode 345 of the pilot to
Pilot Podcast takes off now.
The Pilot to Pilot Podcast is
brought to you by Ground School from
the Finer Points, the
indispensable training app for new
and experienced pilots.
Visit learnthefinerpoints.com
Justin to save 10% off your first
year from your first takeoff
in a Cessna 172 to chasing horizons
in a Beechcraft King Air or
cruising high in a Cessna Citation,
Longitude to Textron Aviation
has been there for pilots like you,
generation after generation.
For nearly 100 years, the name
Cessna and Beechcraft have meant
one thing, an aircraft you can
count on.
Whether you're flying for
business, for adventure or just for
the love of it, Textron
Aviation builds the aircraft that
help you do more and go farther.
So if you're thinking about
upgrading your aircraft, stepping
into your first jet or
expanding your fleet, Textron Aviation
is ready to help you take the
next step.
They offer the performance,
capability and support that pilots
trust every single day.
Because when the sky is your
inspiration, Textron Aviation is
your partner.
And what's next?
Learn more about how Textron
Aviation is built for the skies ahead
today@txtav.com that's
txtav.com very excited to add Textron
Aviation to the sponsor list
for the Pilot the Pilot Podcast.
I've always, always wanted a
plane from Textron Aviation.
My dream plane is a 182, maybe
a 206, so hopefully in the next couple
years we can make that happen.
But shout out Textron Aviation
and as I said, make sure you go to
txtav.com fly with Garmin
avionics then grab your mobile device
and make the Garmin Pilot app
your cockpit companion.
Get advanced functions you'll
use before, during and after every
flight, including updating
your aircraft's databases and logging
engine data plan file.
Fly log with Garmin Pilot all
pilots need the big weather picture
and I use SiriusXM Aviation to
check the fronts, airmets, segments,
turbulence, pireps and more
while I'm pre flighting and in route.
All to give my passengers and
me the most comfortable flight possible.
And now with the latest offer
from SiriusXM, there's never been
a better time to upgrade your
next flight with a Garmin GDL52 portable
receiver to bring SiriusXM and
ADS B weather plus traffic into your
cockpit.
Hi, my name is Jake Tishman.
I fly an A320 captain with a
major ultra low cost carrier, AV
Nation.
What is going on?
And welcome back to the Pilot
to Pilot podcast.
My name is Justin Seams, and I
am your host.
Today's episode is an exciting one.
It is with my good friend Jake Tishman.
If you listen to this episode,
you're going to see or hear a lot
of back and forth.
We do like to give each other
a hard time.
One person is a Florida State fan.
I do apologize if you hear.
If you are also a Florida
State fan and hear us talk about
how bad Florida State this
year, because it's just the truth
and we want to tell the truth.
We do not want to lie to you.
Florida State is not.
But anyways, we get back to
the podcast.
Get back to aviation.
Jake has a great story.
Jake has overcome a lot to get
to where he is today.
A lot of health issues have
gone on and he goes into it.
He talks about how that's
affected him and how that's been
able to drive him to continue
to want to do this dream that he's
had since he was a little kid.
So, AV Nation, I hope you
enjoy this podcast.
And if you do, make sure you
follow Jake on Instagram.
He's a great follow there as well.
And.
And I hope that you get
something from this episode, because
I did by talking to him and I
learned a decent amount about Jake
and I think that what he has
done and what he's overcome has been
pretty spectacular.
So, Jake, shout out to you,
dude, you're doing awesome and it's
been awesome to follow your journey.
AV Nation, hope you enjoy this podcast.
Without any further ado,
here's Jake Tishman.
Jake, what's going on, man?
Welcome to the podcast.
Hi, my name.
Am I doing that again?
No.
Oh, try one more time.
We're keeping it, man.
We're rolling, dude.
Major ultra lowcost carrier.
Jake Tishman.
What's going on, dude?
Welcome to the pilot to Pilot podcast.
We weren't supposed to keep
that part of it, but.
But we did.
It was funny.
I appreciate it, Justin.
Thanks for having me.
Yeah, man.
Probably a lot of jokes in
this one.
A lot of going back and forth.
Just kind of our nature of our
relationship from text and like we
talked about earlier, it's the
first time we've ever even really
like, seen each other,
honestly, other than looking at an
Instagram post or an Instagram video.
Yeah, yeah, but we.
We've talked on the phone a
couple of times, but it's about time
we've taken our.
To the next level.
Yeah, unfortunately, you know
when you run out of people in interview
and everyone else says no,
there's always Jake.
Yeah.
People have to know like what
bottom of the barrel you are choosing
from for your podcast.
Just exactly, exactly.
Major, ultra low cost carrier legacy.
We're not going to let go.
But before we move on, we
gotta call out your overrated Ohio
State Buckeyes.
Yeah, well, you're gonna get
used to them winning a couple national
championships for the next
couple years because I don't see
that train stopping anytime soon.
I don't know.
I don't know about that.
We'll see the greatest show on turf.
Ohio State Buckeyes.
Let's go.
Anyways, we are not here to
talk about Ohio State or a sorry
excuse for football team in
Tallahassee, which is an interesting
place.
Right.
Stand down.
Yeah.
The first question I ask
everyone is, is pretty general.
It's.
It's.
Why did you even want to
become a pilot in the.
I did not have anything else I
wanted to do.
Maybe driving past the fire
station when I was a kid, I wanted
to be a firefighter for like
five weeks.
Yeah.
I have not wanted to do
anything else.
My parents will talk about me
not wanting to do anything else.
I flew was one of those nerds
playing flight sim and it was just
a matter of time before it,
you know, happened in real life.
So.
So when you say it's kind of
all you wanted to do and your parents
would say that, like, I mean,
is this like three years old?
You looked up like airplane.
Is this like, oh, I watch Top
Gun when I was 10.
Or kind of talk about the inspiration.
There, you know, when you're
in like elementary school and kindergarten,
first grade and all the kids
are just trying to find ways to connect
with you.
They're like, if you could be
any animal, if you have a cheetah,
lion, like I always wanted to
be a bird.
This is like the next best
thing to do in that.
And yeah, I've.
Yeah.
I have not wanted to do
anything else.
You'll find me in pictures and
flight decks as a child.
None of my parents, none.
I have four if you count the
step parents.
None of them are in aviation.
None of them fly.
None of them have any idea
what I do on a day to day stuff besides
what I tell them.
Yeah, it wasn't a, it wasn't a movie.
It was.
I just was always staring at
these planes.
Yeah, I love it.
And now you're doing it.
But there is, there's a lot of
people that look up at airplanes.
Right?
Like, I mean you'll go to a
party, you'll go to any kind of social
gathering.
People Say you're a pilot.
You know, they're like, oh, my gosh.
I. I used to want to be a
pilot, or I love airplanes.
And it's like, well, dude, you could.
You could have done it.
You can do it.
You know, it's like, this is a
possibility for so many people, and
so many people want to do
this, but there just seems to be
kind of the lack of
understanding of how to get into
it.
So with you having no
experience, or were you with your
family having no experience
with aviation, how did you go about
actually making this more than
a dream and then actually doing it?
That's a good question, Justin.
You did your homework.
I did not.
That's all right.
No, that's a great question.
I don't think I really fully
understood it until even after I
got my private certificate.
I just knew I needed my
private certificate just to even
get up into the air.
And I did a little bit of
research as far as Discovery flights
were concerned, and we can
kind of dive into that later.
But took my dad got me
Discovery flight in like 2005.
I was like 11 or 12, and I was
this annoying little brat just asking
questions, question after
question after question.
And you're just like, shut up, kid.
Like, let's just go.
You're going to have all these
questions answered in a little bit.
Just questions about the
flaps, the engine, the prop.
Like, every little thing I
could, I could think of, because
my dad's like, this is going
to be your 1 learning opportunity,
so, you know, take advantage
of it.
But 2005 was the first
official flight in my logbook.
And then finally after high
school, I was my graduation present
to take a few more Discovery
flights, which I did to try to find
out which school I wanted to
go to or what instructor I wanted
to go with.
And I kind of just ended up
with one.
I didn't research the pts at
the time.
Pts.
I didn't look up really much
of anything and just trusted my time
and my resources to my
instructor just to take good care
of me at that point.
It wasn't until after my
private that I really started diving
into how I wanted to finish up
the rest of my training.
This was broken up by
finishing up college, was broken
up by medical issues, which
I'm sure we'll get into in a little
bit.
But it was going to be my
money going into this loan.
And so I was trying to figure
out what option is the best time
versus quality, quality
versus, you know, money aspect of
it and how I wanted to go
about it and once I dove into that
at the end of college is where
I really started to learn.
Oh, this is the process.
Oh, this is where these
standards come from.
They aren't just made up from
my original instructor of what he
wanted to do.
You know, this isn't what the
examiner just.
They aren't just making things up.
I probably did about six to
eight months worth of research before
finalizing how I wanted to
finish everything up.
Finished shoving up in 2016.
And once I had started down
that research path, it really set
a precedent for how I went
about making sure I was prepared
for all the certificates,
ratings, getting into jobs, finding
mentors, and all the good stuff.
Yeah.
So 2005 discovery fight
private was when.
Private was 2011 to 2013 and then.
Was private before college or
was private during college or after
college.
Yeah, so it was a 93 baby.
So finished high school 2011.
2011 is when I took those two
Discovery flights in May and then
went to the good old FSU in
the fall of 2011.
So had to kind of stop training.
2011 was when the health
issues really started to pop up and
started to delay me a little
bit more.
Switched from FSU to UCF in
2013 and I just.
I knew I needed to get the
college degree because at that time
everything was dependent on
college degrees.
Delta, American, United, all.
All the big ones were.
Were wanting this college degree.
I'm like, let me just finish
this up and focus on the flying after.
So 2013 was able.
I was able to finish up the
private as I switched over to UCF.
Pause the flight training.
Finished college 2015.
And by the end of 2015 was
when I was doing this major research
into where I wanted to go, how
I wanted to go about flight training.
And 2016 was.
It's going to blow your mind.
January to May of 2016 was
instrumental commercial single or
commercial multi?
Commercial single.
Single engine add on multi engine.
Well, hold on a second.
Instrument private.
Commercial private multi, then
private or commercial multi.
Commercial single Mei.
First single engine add on
instructor, then instrument instructor.
That was January to May of 2016.
Like, dang, dude.
Five and a half.
Five and a half months.
That's a lot.
We.
We doubled up.
We doubled up on.
We doubled up on the multi.
We did commercial or.
Man, I'm getting my words.
Good looks are making me so
nervous today.
Yeah.
Commercial multi commercial
single same day.
Okay.
In single engine instructor
and instrument instructor were.
Same day thing.
Yeah, we.
We doubled up.
We just.
I wanted to be done.
What.
So as someone who lived in A
state where a lot of people go for
training or a lot of people go
to college, specifically aviation
colleges.
Did you ever think about,
especially someone that loved aviation
so much want to be a pilot.
Was there a reason why you
didn't go the Embry Riddle route
or maybe like a 141 school or.
Because I know Florida State.
I don't think Florida State
has a.
Anything to do with.
And use.
I don't know about UCF either.
I don't know if they have
anything to do with aviation either.
Man, I. I really wanted to.
Could not be happier that I
didn't, but I really wanted to.
The first goal was not
civilian aviation.
I had the Naval Academy, you
know, kind of in my back pocket.
You know, memory might be
messing up a little bit, but I'm
pretty sure I had them in my
back pocket until I went to a recruiter
and got medically DQ'd.
Because I originally wanted to
do naval aviation.
I wanted to fly off ships.
You know, I wanted to light my
ass on fire and just go Mach 2, but
couldn't.
So I was like, you know what?
Maybe I should get my degree
in something else.
And I could not be happier
that I did.
Yeah, I think it's important
when you are deciding universities,
Schools, Embry Riddle versus
whatever other options you have,
or 141 versus 61 is also to
consider kind of.
I know you get kind of caught
up and I got to get stuff done as
fast as possible, whether it's
ATP or a specifically designed aviation
university.
But there's something to go
into like an Auburn or an Ohio State
where you can or even go into
a standard public school and training
at a local 61 flight school
where you can still have a life outside
of aviation.
Like, I mean, there's no knock
in any of those aviation schools,
but it's just my own personal experience.
It was a lot of fun to kind of
be a normal student, be a normal
person and have flying on the
side as well.
Now you got to be motivated
and it's definitely could be a little
bit more challenging managing
time, but I think there's something
to it, especially in your kind
of your younger years.
And then I will also probably contradict.
Contradict myself later by
saying you got to get your.
Your stuff as fast as possible.
You got to get that seniority number.
But college.
I think that for me
personally, the best option was going
to a standard public school
with an aviation department on it,
where I got my private in a
141 program.
But then I finished everything
up 61 back in North Carolina.
Yeah.
I mean, you could have picked
a better school, but, yeah, I mean,
basically what you said, you
know, better experience.
Saying that flying in the
Midwest was very difficult.
The weather never cooperates.
And as soon as December hit,
Iraq came around, there was no flying.
It's like, all right, I'm
starting my fr.
They're like, all right, well,
the freezing level is at the ground,
so we're not flying today.
It's like, yeah, that part's difficult.
And it's.
It's probably a little
difficult to do, you know, training
in Florida because it's just
not realistic.
If you go high enough, you can
figure out exactly where you are
just by looking out the windows.
Oh, there's a big body of water.
Yeah, that's got to be east or west.
Gotta be one of the two.
I never thought about that.
There's so many airports you
could accidentally land at, though.
In Florida, there was one just
the other day.
I think some.
What Citation tried to land at
MacDill versus Tampa.
Oh, that's that.
They just have 300ft.
They went around that one.
I don't really understand.
Like, I get that they're
close, but they don't really look
the same.
Right?
Like, north, south, and the
other one's northeast, southwest.
I don't know.
Yeah.
Here we are, your quarterback,
and it's Friday morning.
Yeah, that's what I do, baby.
That's what I do.
Tell me your thoughts to what
happened here.
We were talking.
I wanted one more thing at
Ohio State and the difficulty of
training in the Midwest.
I remember we had a team
football meeting, and our report
cards come back, and all of
our coaches look at our report cards,
and Coach Trussell's walking
down the aisle, and he, like, stops
at me, and he goes, justin,
why do you have an incomplete in
flying?
It's like, why would I ever
trust you as a pilot?
Like, are you an idiot?
Like, what's going on?
I was like, it's because I
can't fly because of the weather.
So they just put an incomplete.
It doesn't go against anything.
It's just what they do.
And he's like, I don't know if
I believe you.
And he just, like, walked away.
It was like, so Coach Trestle
probably doesn't even think I can
fly an airplane.
That's okay.
I mean, he and I are probably
still on the same page even.
Even now.
What?
You're on a seven.
Three?
Yeah.
I don't know.
I don't rock it, man.
I got that bad boy down that.
After the laddie in your
Garmin, I just.
I don't know.
We'll see.
We'll see.
We haven't had.
We haven't had the pleasure of
flying together yet.
No, we have not.
Maybe one day.
But let's continue with.
Now that we did our little
side quest with Coach Stressel, thinking,
I can't fly an airplane.
But we're.
We're talking about how you're
choosing your flight schools, choosing
your path.
You really kind of knocked it out.
And then you mentioned earlier
as well, that Navy.
The Naval Academy is what you
wanted to do, but you kind of ran
into some health issues.
Do you want to go into that a
little bit and kind of talk about
the disappointment and how you
had to pivot?
Yeah, shoot, man.
I don't know how much time we
have to go into it.
You know, everyone's.
Everyone's got their.
Their story.
Everyone's got their piece
that they learned a lot from.
And in my mind, especially
after going through everything is.
You know, there's nothing that
brings you right back to reality
faster than either sickness or
death, you know, someone either really
close to you or personal
sickness in general, of just one.
Having things instantly put
into perspective of how small we
are and how just in general,
events can happen.
But you know what?
We still have our life.
We're still here.
We're still on this side.
We're still breathing.
Sickness, on the other hand,
is a pretty solid way to have just
the utmost gratitude for
everything, because you just have
everything stripped from you involuntarily.
I am fortunate enough to be
blessed with an autoimmune disease,
and the FAA does know.
So we're not.
We're not getting into
anything too crazy.
They already know.
Yeah, they don't know.
Um, we have not talked to any
therapists about it, though, so we're
safe on that end.
That's good.
This should be changing right there.
Mental health laws coming in.
I know.
It's.
It's a.
It's about damn time, too.
Yeah.
You know, just from the
beginning, the first part.
Was that.
That straight up?
No.
From the military.
Like, I.
They won't even let me enlist.
I've tried multiple times on
multiple fronts throughout my career
and throughout this process to get.
To get in.
So that should have been red
flag number one.
Red flag number two was trying
to solo, and that was trying to solo
in 2011, right after I
finished high school, right before
I got to college, put up, you
know, doing the medical, filling
everything out, had not talked
to anyone about it, My instructor
didn't let me know.
And I marked off the
autoimmune disease what, you know,
what I had, and instantly,
don't worry, you know, I'm sure it'll
be okay.
But we need to send this to
Oklahoma City.
You know, the magical words
that now everyone understands and
thankfully is becoming a
little bit more well known throughout
the industry and people that
are getting into the industry.
And yeah, that was about a six
month process to get the paperwork
out.
And it felt like as soon as we
got it out and I was stable at the
time, that's when stuff
started to go downhill.
I was coming back From
Thanksgiving dinner, 2011, from home,
back to college, and that was
the first night I got to call an
ambulance that I went to the
hospital for pretty severe pain and
got to spend my first night in
the hospital.
I didn't know that that would
be the first of many, but, yeah,
I just sort of kicked it off.
I dropped almost all of my
credits except for marching band
that fall semester because I
had gotten so behind not feeling
well.
A couple of hospital visits,
thankfully in the spring, started
a new medication, was able to
kind of push along, do okay.
But then the next summer,
stuff kind of started to go downhill.
We did one more year at FSU
2013, again, continued downhill.
And I was like, you know what?
I'm having a difficult time
doing this on my own and I needed
to come home to finish everything.
Was able to finish that even
while getting a surgery in 2014,
which just.
I'm not gonna say.
I'm sure people can read it on
my face.
It was.
It has not been a fun process.
Yeah.
Each time I think I'm getting
my feet under me and am able to go
and push forward, this thing
just cut my damn ankles off.
And was like, you are going nowhere.
I'm still here.
I'm still here.
Yeah.
A lot of people don't know
that that five and a half months
of training was like, I did my
best to take care of myself, but
afterwards, for like two
months after trying to get into the
professional sphere of
instructing my body, did not let
me do it.
And every time I get into a
groove, it just is like, hey, this
is not for you.
You're not doing this.
It was getting to the point
where, you know, I have had hard
conversations with my dad, was
like, hey, man, do you.
Do you really think this is
going to happen?
Like, I've been able to get to
this point, but do we, do we honestly.
Do we honestly think that an
airline pilot is in my future.
Like, I can't get a groove.
I cannot keep it going.
You know, eventually, was able
to start instructing after, you know,
kind of feeling off.
And then 2017, just a year
after, can't keep going for some
reason, and had to have a
second surgery.
And that one went.
See, about three or four
months after, was recovery.
Then finally, at the end of
2017, starting to feel good.
I'm like, you know what?
I've only got, like, three or
400 hours left.
Let's go to, like, a 141 school.
It's just knock this out.
I don't have to look for
students, so let's just.
Let's just do it.
Was able to get on to the
cadet program at Piedmont, which
was awesome.
I'm like, I'm gonna bang this out.
We're gonna be at the airlines
by spring of 2018.
It's gonna be awesome.
And I wouldn't have lost any
time in comparison to my friends.
Well, did that for three months.
And then my body was like, you
know what?
Sounds like a good idea not working.
You know those dreams you have?
Yeah.
You know those dreams you had?
We're getting close, but not yet.
Not gonna happen.
Yeah.
You think you know what you want?
Let me tell you what you want.
It's gonna be a couple weeks
in a hospital.
It's gonna be.
We don't know if this is gonna
get better or not, and we're gonna
send you home because there's
nothing else for us to do for you
here and may or may not get better.
I don't know.
But, you know, good luck.
Try it out.
See how it goes.
Yeah.
And before I was even feeling
better, I'm like, I'm.
I am tired of sitting at home.
And I just.
I started looking for jobs.
I was like, you know, maybe
instructing isn't.
Isn't the thing.
So I had about 200 hours left
to get to 1500.
Sitting at home and not
feeling well.
And I was like, you know,
skydiving seems like something fun
to do.
Like, I haven't flown skydivers.
Maybe it was like, I'm tired
of Orlando.
Maybe we'll just move.
So found a job flying skydivers.
Out.
In the Pacific Northwest.
Loved that job.
It was the first introduction
to caravans.
And again, just kind of
sneaking out past, like, starting
to slowly feel better.
Like, even before I was where
I wanted to be, I'm like, you know
what?
Let's just go do the job.
If we can't do it.
We can't do it, but it'll be
all right.
Yeah.
But then just sort of pushed
and push and magically started to
get my feet back under me.
Went out to go do that job.
Some conflicts at the end of
that job, but was able to pick up
a little bit more flying there
at the end and got to my magical
1500 hours.
The Piedmont thing.
Wound up not working out and
went to another regional and did
my time at Air Whiskey for.
For a bit.
Joined there at 2018.
I knew I had one more surgery
to get done.
Yeah.
Was that.
Did you know these surgeries
are gonna happen from the beginning?
Was this, like, a three stoke guide?
No, no, the first two.
No, the last one.
Yes, the last one.
I was like, the first one put
me in a situation where I could fly,
but I'm like, this is not the
most comfortable place to be in.
And I was like, I need to.
I need to reverse this.
So I was like, one more surgery.
I was like, you know what?
Let me just start the training.
Let me.
I get my seniority number.
Yeah.
And I know that there was a
long wait for OE at that point and
training in general, so I'm
like, we'll just.
Yeah, we'll start it.
Ask him for forgiveness and
hope it works.
And hope it works.
You're gonna see a friend here
in a second.
That's all good.
I was like, I just saw black
blob, but it's a cat.
Yeah.
So I was expecting to be out
for three months.
That three months turned into
a year.
Oh, shoot.
So, September of 2018 was the
start date.
September of 2019 was the
restart date.
After that, that surgery and
the recovery, and now here we are.
How.
How did Air Wisconsin, or Air
Whiskey, formerly known AS Air Wisconsin,
R.I.P.
yeah, how.
I mean, obviously, you were
still working there, so they were
okay with that.
Like, how do they interact
with that?
How do they treat you with that?
How did they go about that situation?
Because historically, people
think of, you know, of getting hired
out of regional.
Do you have medical issues or
you can't perform the job?
They're gonna be like, all
right, well, we are going to terminate
your employment, but come back
later or reapply here, talk about
how they went about that.
That experience.
Yeah.
I hate to call myself lucky,
because going through that medical
stuff was not lucky.
That was.
Yeah.
Not fun.
I don't think anyone would say
that you were lucky to go to that.
But I was lucky in where I
have been in this timing stuff.
And I think anyone in My
shoes, a whole bunch of, I'm gonna
call us children because we
are children.
Just a whole bunch of, you
know, kids in our shoes that don't
recognize how fortunate they
are and don't recognize the, the
history of our industry.
I was extremely fortunate that
I joined when I joined, because if
I had a pulse, you know, we
all were hyped and they needed people
like the air Wisconsin was
offering like an $80,000 bonus at
that time.
Like, I even still collected
the bonus with this deal.
But I went, I, you know, the
medical stuff is my, is mine.
It's.
It's not anyone else's.
It's not like a, hey, I'm Jake.
I have an autoimmune disease.
You know, how are you doing?
It doesn't.
The conversations never go
like that.
Yeah.
So I went in, I started this job.
I fully expected to go through
this job.
I fully expected that with the
training delays, I would have had
more than enough time to go
through this recovery process and
it wouldn't have affected anything.
Well, you know, recovery
process reached three months and
four months.
I'm like, I should probably
tell them something now because I
know they haven't reached out
to me for training yet, but I need,
I probably need to get on the
front side of this.
Amazingly, I reached out to
the union first and started to chat
with them like, hey, this is
what I'm going through.
This is what's happening.
This is where I think it will go.
And this is the timeline.
I think I'm going to be on.
Like, don't, you know, don't
worry, we'll take care of it.
Which was a surprise because
I'm like, I'm nice to have people
in my corner.
Right.
They worked with their
attorney and they handled it on my
behalf.
They emailed the company, they
basically CCed me and I was still
on probation with the company.
So not a full.
They could know whatever they want.
Right?
Like, essentially, yeah, I'm
not a full.
We'll try, but we can't fight
for you.
Yeah, yeah.
I'm not a full member with the
union either.
So that part, I was extremely
lucky because they went to bat for
me instantly went on short
term disability.
Oh, wow.
Which people should understand
is not through the company.
Like, the company has an
insurance policy that takes care
of that stuff.
So never, never, never feel
bad for reaching into that.
That is something that they
pay for and a service that they pay
for.
That is for you.
That was great.
But I did not qualify for long
term disability.
When that part came Up.
So I was able to collect a
paycheck on the short term disability
side.
When the long term disability
came up, I did not qualify for it
because of its pre existing condition.
So that was just a few more months.
That's what emergency savings
are for.
Yeah.
Made it through, I think three
or four months on no paycheck, living
at home, living with the
parents until it was time to go back.
I'm gonna ask you a question
and I'm just gonna fly.
I mean, did you ever like, I
mean, you mentioned you had this
conversations, but did you
ever just want to give up?
Did you ever just like, hey,
like, this is like, why am I doing
this to myself?
My life could be easier.
I could do.
I mean, like, I don't know, it
seems like there was like so much,
so much pain that you went
through to get to, and I'm so glad
you stuck with it.
But there had to been a time
you're like, working at, I'm just
gonna say random companies
just because I just went there the
other day.
But it's like working at Best
Buy would be easier than this.
Like, you know, like, I mean, obviously.
What do you say?
I said hashtag sponsored.
Yeah, hashtag sponsored by
Best Buy.
Get your Apple Computer.
I'm kidding.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like, I mean, why put yourself
through the unknown of what's going
to happen?
Was it just like, this is my
dream, this is what I wanted to do
since I was three?
Was it kind of that that was
motivating you to do it, or was it,
I have all this money
invested, I got to pay off these
loans.
What was the main motivator to
keep going when it seems setback
after setback after setback
and like, you get so close and then
it gets taken away.
Yeah.
Honestly, in the middle of it,
it's like, it's like being in the
middle of crying about
something that has happened in your
life or happened like five
seconds ago that just hit you and
devastated you in the middle
of it.
You're not like, well, let me
keep walking.
Let me keep doing what I was doing.
Like, you are very present.
You, you're not thinking about
moving forward.
You're just in it and sort of,
that's it.
Because at the time, even if
you're not feeling great, the only
option is to just wake up.
Some days the only option is
like walking to your couch.
That's a successful day.
And there were days like,
sometimes I didn't make it to the
couch, but I woke up.
Like, that's all I could Kind
of ask for, but once you can start
tasting just a little bit,
maybe it's not just making it to
the couch, but it's making it
to the kitchen and making some breakfast.
Or maybe it's making breakfast
and being able to eat the breakfast
without getting exhausted from it.
That's kind of exciting.
That's.
Justin, that's some good stuff.
I don't know if you've done
that recently, but that's some stuff.
I did just eat breakfast today
and I did.
Did smile afterwards.
So.
Yeah.
And you did say, hey, I need
extra 15 minutes so I can eat my
breakfast.
So congratulations.
If you had food breakfast, you
would have taken 30 minutes.
So to finish 15 is extraordinary.
I'll tell you what, man, there
were days where, you know, it would
have to go out and go to the
car, and getting back inside from
the car would take 45 minutes.
Because I'm sitting in the car
thinking about how much energy it's
going to take to open up my
door, to turn the car off, to get
out.
Not just get out of the car,
but then you have to close the door
and find a way to lock it.
And, man, God forbid you have
something you need to take inside,
because that is gonna suck, too.
So you gotta maybe go open
another door, go pick up the bags,
close that one, and then like,
maybe take the 10 to 15 steps inside.
But all that to say to go back
to your question, it's when you start
tasting even just a little
bit, Maybe it isn't 45 minutes to
get in from the car.
Maybe it's, you know, 10 minutes.
Maybe it's five minutes.
Maybe it's walking down to the
grocery store and it's.
You're not out of breath doing it.
Maybe it's like that one
opportunity you get to go to the
gym, and the gym absolutely
kicks your ass.
And you can't, you know, you
can't move afterwards.
But, like, you couldn't go to
the gym last week.
Yeah.
And eventually it gets to the
point where, personally for me, my
brain pushes so much of what
happened out.
Because thinking of it is sad.
And it makes me.
Yeah, it makes me very sad to
think about.
So I do everything I do now
just in utmost appreciation for every
little thing that I do.
Hey, it's Justin.
Quick question.
Are you doing everything you
can to protect the wealth you've
built?
If you're sitting on a
portfolio worth at least a million
dollars, you probably know
that traditional diversification
just isn't enough anymore.
You need a little extra to
move the needle these days.
That's why I'm inviting you to
an exclusive webinar from the experts
at Alworth Airline Advisors.
They'll break down the tax
smart moves and coordinated tactics
that the other high net worth
investors use to preserve and grow
their wealth.
This isn't your average
financial planning webinar.
This is next level information
designed specifically for complex
portfolios like yours.
So what are you waiting for?
Reserve your spot
today@allworthairline.com have you
read the book or heard the book?
I think it's like make your bet.
I don't know what the actual
book's called, but the theory is
it's by like some kind of
general in the military.
You know, I mean, you were
military, you're aficionado.
Let's say you wanted to join
the Navy at some point.
But like it was all about, you
know, small wins.
Like, all right, you wake up,
you make the bed.
That's the first win.
And the day just continues to carry.
And you, you take this win
into the next win and they just kind
of carry on and build up.
I kind of get that same vibe
with you.
It's like once you start
seeing like a win, then you're like,
all right, I can do this now.
All right, we can do this.
And then it just continues to
build on each other.
The question is, when these
kind of downs start, is this something
that you can tell is getting
ready to happen?
Is this something that just
like snaps and all of a sudden it's
here, or how does that process go?
It's a, it's, it is a process.
But, you know, kind of going
back on what you said, you know,
tasting the winds, there's,
there is more that I want to feel
other than just the winds.
Yeah.
And there's nothing I get from
life that I get from flying like
that.
Nothing that really compares
to it.
But.
Then answering your next one,
just the.
You can kind of start to feel
sometimes you can catch it.
I know ahead of time if
there's something really stressful
going on in my life that I can
kind of be prepared and be proactive
with steps that I know will
help and not purposefully exacerbate
the problem that I know will
probably be a problem.
And sometimes it's not even a
real big thing.
It's just minor symptoms start
to show and you're like, this is
like, we have no time for you.
This is not.
We, we need to kind of cut
back kind of recenter, do what I
know helps those particular symptoms.
And yeah, just keep Moving
forward, doing what you can do with
the time, and then working
with whatever other constraints you
may have.
How would you say, you know,
you probably had.
I don't want to like, judge
anyone else's life or kind of.
I can't speak for other
people, but from this conversation,
there's been.
Justin.
Yeah, There's.
There's been a lot of setbacks.
It sounds like there's been a
lot of disappointments.
Right?
Like, I mean, there's been
like, so like the closeness of reaching
the high and then just the.
The utter collapse of the low.
How do you use.
How have you used that or have
you used that to help kind of shape
your perspective on either the
little things in life or just how
you view things in general?
Has that kind of made you
appreciate things a little bit different
or kind of talk about how you
have used kind of those setbacks
and those pains to either grow
as a person and how you go about
a daily life?
Yeah.
Two aspects.
One is on the appreciation
side of things.
I recognize the absolute
tiniest of things and will stop in
the middle of my day just to
appreciate them.
Taxiing the airplane, you
know, getting a second to look.
It's like walking past a
really reflective window and you're
like, man, I got some nice
gains today.
It's the same thing taxing the.
Any airplane.
You kind of look in the
mirror, you're like, damn, like,
I'm moving that right now.
That's pretty cool.
Big old.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
It's like, I look good right now.
Yeah.
The other piece of that has
been I don't have room in my life
for.
Am I allowed to curse?
Can I curse?
I mean, you already have.
I don't know if you notice that.
Let's go.
I have.
We're speaking freely.
I don't have time in my life
for bullshit, Justin.
Okay.
I don't have time in my life
for things that are not real.
So if people don't follow
through with things like it's not
chance after chance after
chance after chance to try to redeem
that.
Like, I will try.
If other people aren't willing
to meet me in the middle, then that's
sort of it.
If there is a situation that
is taking energy, a lot of energy
sometimes is just not worth my
energy to.
Yeah.
Keep giving it freely.
That can be personal
relationships that can be business
related.
Stuff that can be career related.
It can be conflict in a
career, literally anything.
If it's sucking too much
energy, sometimes it just needs to
be either quickly, quickly
resolved, whether that's admitting
fault that isn't yours.
Yeah.
Or anything to qualm the
situation so that I can have my energy
back because it is worth so
much more.
No one else deserves it unless
it's the people that I choose.
Yeah.
To have deserve it.
So it's.
It's been.
It's been both, but it's
really great at work flying, especially
with a larger crew where.
Excuse me, sir, my cat's
trying to make an entrance.
It's.
It's great at work because any
of the small things at work that
will sometimes send certain
captains up a wall, whether that's
rampers not being prepared,
whether that's rampers loading the
airplane incorrectly, whether
that's miscounts, whether that's
having to do manual counts,
whether it's ridiculous maintenance.
Maybe it's something
maintenance that the flight attendant
found that you were just
hoping that they wouldn't find because
it's go.
Home leg, go home day, but
they found it.
Yeah, but, man, they know when
to find it.
Yeah.
I love my flight attendants,
just FYI, but little things like
that, I just don't care.
I care like I do good.
I do a good job, but I just
don't care.
There's nothing.
When you say you don't care,
you mean that you don't let it affect
you in a negative way.
I don't.
It is what it is.
We write it up.
We just deal with it.
Yeah.
You're like, if my parents
listen to this and they hear you
say it is what it is, they
know that I'm holding a lot of restraint
back because I can't.
I can't stand the phrase.
It's just.
It is what it is.
It's the adult version of whatever.
Okay.
Well, it's just when you don't
know how to explain it.
Right.
It's just like, yeah, all right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's.
It's.
I don't care is in the terms
of not getting worked up.
There's no one to yell at.
There's no one to get
frustrated with.
There's no one to get.
Like I said, there's nothing
to expend energy on that is going
to rile anyone up.
Yeah.
It's not going to change anything.
Your reaction is only going to
make things worse.
I'm sure you has a potential to.
Only make things worse.
I know.
I'm sure you sat next to some
of those captains where you're just
like, hey, man, we have no
control over this.
I don't know if you noticed or not.
So it's like, dude, go walk outside.
Like take a breath.
Yeah.
When the last time we were
kind of talking about the aviation
journey that you're on.
We're talking about Air
Wisconsin and from.
I know, but people that are
listening don't know yet.
That isn't where you are now.
That wasn't your last stop to
where you are now either.
So can you talk about the
decision, the decisions that you
made to one, leave Air
Wisconsin and where you went after
that?
There's, there might be like a
little bit of regret in this story,
so I'm going to try to.
I don't like regret, but
there's, there has been some reflection
on some decisions that have
been made in this process, like especially
rather recently.
So at Air Wisconsin, it was under.
The time that we were
operating under United Express, had
a great deal with United where
we had the United AVA program.
It was still in its infancy.
There's some conflict in there
about who was getting into the program
and who wasn't and kind of
seeing some of the same thing now
industry wide where a lot of
the senior captains with great experience,
great attitudes were not being
accepted into this program.
And again, very, very, very,
very fortunate.
I had not even had my type in
the CRJ yet.
When I got my cjo, I got my
invitation into ava.
Yeah.
Which meant what, what did
that mean when you got that?
I. I was in the middle of sims
for the CRJ and I went to Denver,
interviewed and I had no idea
what they're.
They gave me a situation and
they're like, cool, how would you
handle this?
And I'm like, I don't know,
like, would you maybe call dispatch?
I'm like, that sounds like a
great idea.
Like, let's contact dispatch.
I would be more than perfect.
Great.
What would you do next?
Call the flight attendant.
Oh, that's right.
I'm going to call the flight
attendants next.
And they're like helping me
along this process.
And I'm like, why, why are you
guys, why do we extend this invite?
And I'm like, I didn't know
anything during this interview.
Yeah, I like to think I went
in with a good attitude, but I was
just a little surprised.
But anyways, I was fortunate
enough to get invited into Aviate
and worked my butt off just
flying, flying, flying, upgraded.
I had just been asked to
manage Focal, so like I was feeling
great.
We were, you know, maybe 200
hours away from transitioning over
to United, like in a really
good spot.
Personally was not in a great spot.
Like we had talked about
earlier a probably more stressful
personal stuff was going on
and I did not do a good job at managing
myself while also handling work.
Air Wisconsin was great
because man, you got hours fast.
Air Wisconsin was not great
because you would work six days in
a row.
You would be on a four day
trip and get junior manned for the,
you know, second two days and
maybe if you didn't make it home,
you would get overnighted for
30 hours to reset your duty time
and you would, you would start
again and I could not keep up.
This piece of trash could not keep.
Up.
And I wound up not feeling
great again.
So I had to take some time off.
Say, well you know, shoot,
what am I doing?
Like is this the job?
Is this the personal thing?
Like what is this?
What's going on?
And at the time In December of
2021, Frontier told me no.
In 22, I had gotten like a
couple face to faces with American
and they had told me to go get
more experience.
Delta sent me a fix it email,
fixed my application within about
30 minutes of getting that email.
Never heard another word.
Got a face to face in Atlanta,
didn't hear another word.
United wouldn't touch me
because I was in their AVA program.
I applied to my current
carrier, they didn't even give me
an interview.
Really told me no.
Yeah, yeah.
I don't think you knew that.
I did not.
They didn't even give me an interview.
I applied to breeze, had an HR interview.
No.
JetBlue, never heard a word.
And yeah, I think that's, I
think that was it.
I think that's all of them.
Honestly, it's a good number
of them.
Yeah.
I would like to mention this
is not like as a brag, this was just
as kind of adding to my not
being sure of why things were happening.
I am just as much of an a hole
as any other pilot is like, I don't
think I'm that big of a jerk.
I have never failed a
checkride, never failed a PC.
I've never unsat a line check.
I had upgraded and I had been
managing union safety for pushing
a year.
So I was genuinely confused.
I didn't understand why when
other people seemed like they had
two or 300 hours in the right
seat of a jet and they're like, look
at me, I'm going to a new legacy.
I'm like, how like what's
going on?
And I just, with the personal
stuff that was going on, added stress,
kind of slipping on the
health, getting a bunch of no's and
Some just not even getting an opportunity.
I was like, you know, maybe,
maybe I'm not meant to be in this
position.
So I started looking for other jobs.
I looked at Air Ambulance.
I looked at.
Basically I wanted to come out west.
I was looking at anything that
was going to let me come out to the
west side, whether that was
Denver, Salt Lake, any of the two.
I kept going on vacations out
there and I was like, you know what?
I need to find something out there.
Had done a couple of interviews.
Those are going significantly better.
So I'm like, okay, is this a meeting?
Is this a resume thing?
I was even more confused
because people were sending offers
and it seems like with the
corporate side of things, that seems
definitely a little bit more
on the personable side as far as
what they would be pulling from.
And eventually I found this,
this spot at Solaris for a Falcon
2000 and a PC12.
And I'm like, okay, I could do that.
And in there specifically it
said, would love someone with 121
training, standardization.
You know, just someone with a
121 background.
Yeah, like I could do that.
And if I two airframes, like,
I could, I could do that.
So applied.
I went through three separate interviews.
I did the same thing I did before.
I did the skydiving stuff.
Like the, my third interview
for that job.
Like, I think I had just
gotten out of the hospital that day.
Solid.
What better time to go interview.
I need to get a haircut.
I need to shave.
I need things.
Clothes.
Yeah, I need all these things.
But the interview went well.
They extended a job offer.
I'm like, okay, I've got like
three months.
I was like, I need to get, I
need to be in the right spot again
and again.
Like, I was not actively flying.
I was on short term disability
at the time.
So I was like, just trying to
deal with all of this.
And I was like, okay, three months.
Like let's go in three months.
Got myself back, was able to
come back to Air Whiskey, finish
up a couple of trips, and then
I left, like not looking behind.
I was super, super stoked.
I was gonna go get a new type rating.
It's gonna be home based.
I got to move to Salt Lake.
So I was, yeah, I was
thrilled, thrilled, thrilled, thrilled.
And I'm sure you, you even saw
too, just between the, the two of
us, like, oh, I'm never going
back to the airlines.
This is too good.
Like, look at my rental car dog.
I got a Mustang.
I'm staying at the Marriott.
Check this out.
I got a corner room for breakfast.
Yeah.
Looking over the pool.
They are paying for everything.
I'm like, cool.
This is it.
This was a.
This was an account that had
been established for 15 plus years.
This was an account that
bought their Falcon right before
the 08 financial crisis.
Made it through 08, made it
through Covid, made it through the
principal's personal divorce.
Kept the same airplane, same
two crew members.
Was with a very reputable
management company.
Trying to think of what else.
Just green flags across the board.
I couldn't find anything wrong
with it.
And I remember asking
everyone, like, am I making a mistake?
Like, I love this.
Everyone was going the
opposite direction.
I'm like, my parents kept
saying, oh, don't worry.
Like, airlines will always be there.
You can always go back.
And I remember fighting with
them on it.
Like, no.
Like, if something happens.
Covet people furloughed during
COVID Yeah.
Even my place, my current
place, furloughed during COVID Air
Wisconsin furloughed during
COVID Like, it's not the same, guys.
Like, seniority is everything.
Everything.
If I don't get in now, like,
it's gonna change later.
This is.
It's not.
This is not going to happen again.
Yeah, but I'm like, happy go lucky.
This spot is great.
Then look at me in Hawaii on
this corner room, looking over the
ocean, watching the sunset
with a motorcycle rental.
Living the dream, right?
Yeah.
That was all great until it
was like your, you know, your girlfriend
or boyfriend or partner or
whatever you have, like, sit you
down, be like, hey, can we.
Can we talk?
Like, okay, remember looking
at my other pilot, like, what do
we.
We think we're going to talk
about, huh?
Like, do we think he's.
No, they wouldn't do that.
They've had it for this long
and they're divorced.
Sure enough, selling the jet.
Like, what, our jet or another jet?
I'm like, okay, selling the jet.
Okay.
Yeah.
I was just.
I just kind of sat there, just.
I didn't really know what to say.
I was like, okay, great.
Good for you.
Good decision, you know, Gotta
do what's best for you.
Like, what am I supposed to do?
So I started looking for other
corporate jobs.
This was the end of summer,
beginning of fall, into 23, looking
for other jobs, not really
finding anything I want.
Got some really nice offers
for some good corporate gigs, some
awesome corporate gigs.
But I would have had to move.
And I'm not moving.
I am home.
This is home.
This whole valley is home.
All my friends are here.
So I'm like, starting to look
for other things that are based here.
Couldn't find anything.
I had already made up my mind.
I'm not going back to the airlines.
So it's only, only corporate stuff.
Basically, a friend sat me
down and said, you should consider
going back to the airlines.
Like, no, dude, I already made.
No, I can't do that.
I've already made peace with
not going back.
She's like, listen, with how
things have gone in your past, granted,
I know you're feeling good
now, but how things have gone in
the past.
You could.
Probably have a little bit of protection.
Like, what do you mean?
Well, like, if you call in
sick right now, like, there's just
two of you.
You need two of you.
And your actions, like, kind
of more directly impact the operation.
There is some benefits to
being a number.
And we had that conversation
and was like, okay.
Kind of swallowed the ego.
It's like, fine, End of
January of 24, get told that they
are playing to sold and we're done.
So out of a job.
Thankfully, a few weeks later,
NGPA was going on in Palm Springs.
I am not a member.
I don't think I'm a member of
any organization.
I was like, you know, it'd be
good to get some face to face time
with some of these guys, talk,
see what they're looking for.
You know, American might be there.
Maybe I have enough experience now.
Alaska will be there.
Southwest like some good places.
So I went, talked to all these
people, had a face to face with American
and talked to Southwest,
talked to Alaska, and it hadn't quite
hit the news waves yet that no
one's hiring.
No one is hiring.
Southwest was like, yeah,
we're kind of gonna push it to the,
you know, fall.
Maybe.
Alaska's like, like, Paul, what?
Yeah, I was like, okay, great, great.
Alaska's like.
Or American's like, we're not
really going to hire anyone here,
but, you know, kind of look.
And Delta kind of gave like
the why did you guys never call me?
Kind of look.
And a friend who was going to
the place I'm at now said, you should
go talk to them.
And my first reaction was f them.
They did not interview me.
They didn't.
They didn't even give me an
opportunity in 22.
Like, no, yeah, they can go
jump off a cliff.
I'm not, not doing it.
He's like, why?
Just go talk to him.
It's not going to hurt anything.
Like, they didn't want me.
They.
I was in the middle.
Fine, I'll go talk to him.
Fine.
I had all my resumes and stuff
and I, I needed to like take a second
to change my, my mindset with
this and be like, you have no job.
Yeah, just go talk to them.
Maybe something happened.
I don't know.
I was, I was struggling with
like letting pride get in the way,
put it that way.
So I went and said, hey, you
know, I'm Jake, you know, here's
my resume.
What's.
You know, I just had a, had a gig.
It just ended not too long ago.
You know, I'm looking for full
time employment.
You guys have a base
approximately close to where I'm
at.
You know, curious, you know,
what you guys are maybe looking for.
He's like, oh, you're.
You qualifications are like
really close to what we're looking
for.
Do you have any other offers
or, you know, are you looking to.
What are you looking for?
Like, I just want a place to
call home.
Like, I just want to be in a
position and I don't have, I want,
I don't want to have to worry.
I just want to be happy with
my job and I want to go to work happy,
make some decent money in the process.
But like, it's not priority
number one.
I just, I just want my home.
That's what, that's all I want.
And I thought the last gig was it.
Unfortunately I was wrong.
And now I'm here and I'm like, I'm.
But you know, I just figured
I'd come chat again.
I was like, I like that one again.
Yeah.
And I'm, I'm like, I did apply
in, in 22, but I didn't get an interview.
Like, I didn't get a chance to
talk to you.
He's like, give me a second.
Let me go figure out why he
goes back and he opens up the little
program and he's like, oh,
yeah, Yes, I, I see you here and
I show that we, we told you
no, but there's no reason.
There's nothing written out.
It's just.
No.
He's like, would you maybe
want to have a conversation?
I was like, yeah, yeah.
I mean I'd, I'd love to if
you're willing.
It's like, come back in a
couple hours when we're a little
less busy and we can, we can
sit down and chat some.
Okay.
Went back, it was a good thing
because I was exhausted.
Yeah.
Took about half an hour, an
hour long nap.
Got a quick bite to eat.
Just kind of got myself, you
know, prepped back up, went back
in about an hour before the
event was supposed to close and had
an interview on the spot.
Had a CJO by the end of the day.
Let's go, let's go.
From a major legacy, ultra low cost.
From a major, ultra low cost
carrier with legacy ambitions.
Love it.
That's gonna be the new tagline.
They're gonna hear this and be
like, it's perfect.
Yeah.
A trade market.
Yeah.
You can't use it.
Airline, legacy ambitions.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
So, I mean, you started this
whole thing off when we talked about
what happened after Wisconsin and.
And you mentioned that there
was regret.
Is there regret over just not
trying to figure out a way to stick
out with Air Wisconsin and not
going through any of this?
Or is there regret over, you
know, tasting the corporate life
and it not working out?
Kind of talk about what the
regret exactly is, Justin.
I was 200, 250 hours away from
going to United in 22.
My friends where they went in
22 have.
Do you want to guess the number?
How many people underneath
them they have?
Yeah.
No, I don't, because I know.
Yeah, I have a good idea.
Yeah, it's.
Yeah, that one.
So I wonder if I had just
taken a little bit of time, figured
out my personal stuff, given
it just an opportunity to work itself
out, and the big thing was
just swallow my ego a little bit.
I just, I wonder.
Yeah, I hate to say regret,
because I live a pretty freaking
awesome life right now.
There you go.
I genuinely could not be happier.
Yeah, I think every pilot, I
won't say every pilot because in
the past couple years, five
years, there's a lot of people.
I've just made it to Delta,
just made it to America, made it
to United, and really haven't
had any.
I don't want to say tough
decisions, but haven't had any major
setbacks or what are perceived
to be setbacks or step backs or getting
furloughed or getting fired.
Going to corporate, then not
going to corporate, then going back.
You know, they just kind of
like, I got 1500 hours.
What do we do now?
Oh, you apply to the airlines.
Oh, cool.
I got hired.
It's like, what?
Just some of those people are
miserable right now.
Yeah, some of those people are
like, well, now what?
There's nothing else.
They've got like, they've got
seven types in their logbook.
They rushed, rushed, rushed.
And they are.
Oh, here goes the show.
I'll let everyone see.
Yeah, they rushed, rushed, and
seven, eight.
You know, how many types do
they actually have?
How much varied experience do
they have.
I've got 40 types in my logbook.
You know, I still fly outside
of the airline.
I still push like I just got
my glider cert two years ago.
I got my glider instructor
this past May.
Yeah, there's people that are
just unhappy, but at the same time,
like, you know, they may have
gone through the process of things
I wish had happened in that order.
Yeah.
But I also wouldn't have had a
lot of the things I have if those
things had happened in that order.
Very true, very true.
I mean everyone.
I was always told that
because, I mean, I have gone a non
standard path too.
Right.
Like I didn't do cfi, I didn't
go to the regionals.
I went as far on the other
side of the regionals.
I was the most pro fractional
person you could ever talk to.
That's true.
Man wasn't.
Which.
It's not a knock to say it's
not a great way to make a living.
It's not a knock to say it
can't be a great career.
Just what I needed in my life
changed and what I wanted out of
my employer and what I wanted
out of my job was different.
So luckily I was at a time
where I could just apply and I got
the job.
I mean, you can always just apply.
But it was in the time where
they were hiring a lot of people
where who knows that maybe
they don't want fractional guys or
girls as much anymore.
It's up in the air.
You never know now.
But I was able to make the
decision and I kind of wrestled with
like, all right, did I just
waste like two to three years of
my life?
They're in contract negotiations.
It's like, yeah, I was number
two in the company.
I would have retired at number
two in the company.
Like, it's like I put in
enough time here to, to give it its
time to see what the contract
was going to be.
So I decided to wait.
And I struggle with looking
back on that with, like you said,
with regret because it's two
years ago is a big deal.
It's kind of like you talked
about, like, my friends are hired
two years ago, are going to retire.
Number five, number 10, number 200.
I mean, I'll retire, I think
1200, which still is not bad with
how many pilots we have.
But it's a big difference from
200 or 5.
But I truly think that, you
know, the experiences I got are just.
It really fulfilled my career.
And you also don't know until
you retire, the day you retire, if
you Made the right decisions.
Your decisions right now could
have put you in a place that's going
to keep you there and keep you
as happy as you can possibly be up
until you're 65.
Or it could finally get you to
the airlines you want to go.
But when you're 65, you look
back on, you're like, well, I met
this person, or I had this
much fun, or I was able to do this
because I worked here, because
I have more unique opportunities
with a different lifestyle
that you guys have than, say, what
a fractional or corporate or
other 121job has.
So you can't judge.
You can't have the regret
until you turn 65 and you look back
and then you'll be like, all
right, yeah, I was an idiot.
I messed up.
Yeah, man.
Some of these people, you
know, they rushed, rushed, rushed,
rushed, and they went to
whatever logo on the tail they'd
always seen them themselves
being at.
And it's just people like, you
know, I'm done filling out my logbook.
I, I don't.
I'm at my, I'm at my dream.
I'm at my dream airline.
And the truth of the matter
is, like, we all rushed and we locked
in a spot.
Yeah.
And then all you can do is,
like, cross your fingers, like, you
lock in your spot and you're
like, man, I really hope this works
out.
And people don't realize that
that's what we all did.
But, you know, they, they will
figure it out.
You know, we all say, oh, you
know, too big to fail.
Well, you know, we can all
look at Pan Am as a big one.
But the, the thing is, is that
you never know what's going to happen.
Right.
There's always, especially in
aviation, every eight to 10 years
or who knows what the timeline
could be.
There is kind of this event
that you just can't plan for, like
9, 11.
The wait.
Financial crisis.
It was.
I'm probably missing something
as well in there.
But then you have Covid, and
you have always a looming financial
crisis coming on.
You always have.
What is it?
The AI bubble right now that
everyone's talking about.
There's always going to be
something that is going to be fearful
of what you're going to do or
that you're going to lose your job.
But you just got to try to put
your head down and just enjoy it
while you have it.
And you got to prepare for
the, for the, the downturn and try
to prepare your family and your.
In your situation for that.
Because there is a Good chance
that there will be another downturn
in your career.
And if you only taste success,
if you only, you know, you got hired
at Delta at 1500 hours or any
major carrier at 1500 hours, and
you haven't seen that success,
you might not really believe it.
You hear it and you've heard
people talk about it.
And the person left c. It's
like, how'd you get here?
You answer your question in
five seconds.
He answers his that same
question in 25 minutes.
Because it's like, well, I
started this regional.
I went to this one.
Then I went to this carrier
which bought a couple.
I got this carrier which then
went under, and so I had to apply
to this carry.
It's like, yeah, they've been
through the stuff.
Yep, they went through that.
And then going through all the
mergers, you know, what they didn't
think, but what those who were
in control of the merging and the
merging of the seniority list
thought was fair.
Yeah.
You know, was nowhere near
because they had been at the airline
for 10 plus years, and all of
a sudden someone with like two or
three years of seniority, even
though it's the same percentage on
the seniority list, just.
They don't mesh.
And they got screwed.
Screwed.
And what's to say, like,
someone who wants to make a career
at one of these other places
doesn't eventually come up?
I mean, these poor people at
Spirit, you know, they go to Spirit
in the middle of where they're
absolutely killing it.
They have a great contract.
Things seem to be great there.
Everyone's like, you know, I could.
I could make a good career out
of this.
And they're now facing bottom
of the seniority list.
There are people who have been
there for 15 plus years who have
said, you know what, it's
better to cut the losses now before
they get too great.
And I've completely started
over their careers again.
I mean, there's so many out
there, like, literally right this
second that are.
That's going on.
Yeah.
That have experienced kind of
the worst of the worst in the industry.
And it's kind of hard to say,
you know, regret one way or another.
It's just kind of where your
story takes you.
Exactly.
I agree.
I mean, it's.
It's something that you don't
know until, like we said, until you
turn 65, you can look back, be
like, wow, all right, I did all right.
You know, 10 years ago, no one
thought Alaska would be flying 787s
to Europe.
That's true.
Here we are.
That's True.
And I think it kind of comes
down to like, just people, like,
if there was a moral of the
story is like chase kind of like
the life that you want, not
necessarily like a logo on the tail
or like the prestige you think
is there or the happiness you think
you might have by having a
certain type rating, like, it just,
all that stuff goes away.
But if you are putting what
you want out of your life and how
the job fits into it.
Yeah, that's kind of.
That's kind of the gold sauce.
Yeah.
Because it changes.
I mean, it wasn't too long ago.
Oh, wait, financial crisis.
Delta wasn't doing great.
Obviously they have rebounded
and done amazing.
Now what?
Ten years ago, United, even
through their regional carrier, was
dragging people off airplanes.
Now they're doing great.
Like, I mean, things can change.
What you perceive to be the
bottom of the barrel airline can
in fact, in 10 years reinvent
itself and become the creme de la
crop.
I will say.
Yeah.
So, yeah, don't get so fixated
on where you are right now and how
well or how bad things are doing.
Try to build a life of the
place that you're at and try to just
find a place that can.
You can find a career at.
You can be happy, enjoy some
seniority and try to figure out how
you can stay home as much as
possible and hang out with your kids
and your family.
Heck yeah.
Or your cats.
Yeah.
Well, there will be a puppy soon.
Just.
Yeah.
Hey, yo.
Yeah, just trying to get
everything stabilized.
But yeah, these were great for
when I was doing four day trips and
I could have someone just come
check in on them and have them life
in the apartment.
So love it.
But Jake, that's all I got for
you, man.
Anything else for you?
That's pretty good.
Cool.
I wanted to say this
beginning, but thanks, Jake from
space.
Thanks, Jake from State Farm.
Over the words.
But, Jake, thanks so much for
coming on, man.
It's.
It's awesome to hear how you
still have a positive outlook, how
you can face so much kind of
just negativity and just like the,
the wondering every single day.
Like, all right, do I have
enough energy to.
To eat breakfast today?
It's like, I made it
yesterday, but it didn't eat.
I eat it.
Can I eat it today?
Can I close my car door?
You know, that's not something everyone.
And you brought up earlier
too, about like, you don't realize
how much your health can
impact you until you don't have it
anymore.
You don't realize how lucky
you are to have your health until
it's not there.
Yeah.
So to anyone listening to
this, I'm sure you would say this
as well.
It's like, just really
appreciate what you have.
You know, at the end of the
day, if you can get up, you can walk
outside, if you can smile,
then you.
You're doing pretty well.
It's.
It's the same as, you know,
people in the career.
Like, we made this, like,
flying oriented.
You know, there's a lot of
people that feel stuck right now
that have felt stuck for,
like, the last year, year and a half,
just with industry not really
moving, not really hiring.
And I just think about all of
us that when we weren't flying and
we were thinking, like, I just.
I want.
Everything would be fine if I
was flying.
And then now we're flying, you
might be flying for a living, instructing
that FO at a regional,
whatever, you're like, I just can't
move.
I just.
But we're doing the thing that
we wanted to do and couldn't dream
of doing anything else, like
two years ago, three years ago, whatever
it might be.
And I just, I.
Sometimes it.
It'd be.
It's nice to have a little bit
of a reality check, but it not be
in a negative way.
Right?
I bet.
So.
I bet.
Yeah.
So to all those that are.
That are working, you know,
especially the ones that have reached
their 1500 hours or 2000 hours
or 2500 hours and aren't in the position
that they want to be in yet,
like, it.
It'll happen.
It'll happen.
It might take a little bit
more time, but it'll happen.
Yep, it will.
But, Jake, I appreciate coming
on, man.
Thank you so much.
And I'm sure you'll be bugging
me soon.
You'll probably text me 20
minutes after.
It's like, dude, why'd I say that?
What'd I do?
Nah, nah, nah.
I think.
I think we're good.
Everything besides tripping up
over if I knew what ratings happened.
And these.
These little stars of the
show, love it.
All right, man, well, I
appreciate you showing your Florida
State bug one more time, so go
nose, baby.
Yeah.
How many people are saying
that these days?
But congratulations.
I'll see you around, man.
Thanks.
See you, dude.
All right, dude.
See ya.
That's a wrap on today's podcast.
This is the Thanksgiving
podcast, so shout out to everyone
that is celebrating
Thanksgiving today.
Hopefully you're spending time
with your family.
Hopefully you're spending time
with your loved ones and just eating
some good food, talking about
aviation and hopefully you're going
flying.
You know we should probably we
need to back come up with something.
You know.
Hey, you have backyard
backyard football home Thanksgiving.
Let's do backyard flying.
Probably not the best way to
call it because that could probably
lead into some incidents.
So let's not do that.
But let's go fly.
Let's go Thanksgiving fly ins.
Let's have some fun.
Let's go fly and enjoy the Sky Nation.
I hope you're having a great day.
Big news coming.
It might have been announced
by this podcast.
I do not know.
Probably not, but soon.
I know I've said it a lot but
bear with me.
It's going to be awesome and I
hope you're having a great day.
And as always, happy flying
Pilot's Pilot LLC is compensated
to make recommendations to his
or her followers regarding the services
of RAA or Allworth Fairland
Advisors, companies of Allworth Financial
LP or Allworth.
Promoter is not an employee or
investment advisor representative
of Allworth.
Promoter is a current client
of Allworth.
Allworth pays Promoter a fee
of $4,000 a month for sponsorship
of the pilot podcast.
Due to the compensation
arrangement between Allworth and
Promoter, Promoter has an
incentive to recommend Alworth, resulting
in a material conflict of interest.
Promoter's role on behalf of
Allworth is limited strictly to making
recommendations regarding the
services of Alworth, introducing
or referring prospective
clients to Alworth.
Promoter has no responsibility
with respect to Alworth's Investment
Advisor or other advisory services.