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Released every Tuesday, the LOUNGE LIZARDS podcast helps listeners navigate the experience of finding and enjoying premium cigars (both Cuban and non-Cuban) and quality spirits. Episodes are normally around 90 minutes long and feature a variety of different topics including food, travel, life, sports and work.
The podcast features eight members: Rooster, Poobah, Gizmo, Senator, Pagoda, Chef Ricky, Grinder and Bam Bam.
This is not your typical cigar podcast. We’re a group of friends who love sharing cigars, whiskey and a good laugh.
Join us and become a card-carrying lounge lizard yourself! Email us at hello@loungelizardspod.com to join the conversation and be featured on an upcoming episode!
Ep. #204: My Father Blue Toro (w/ Partido Roble Fino Sherry Cask Tequila Reposado, Cuban Prisoners Rolling Cigars, Overheating Your Cigar While Smoking, Trinidad's $1,000 Fundadores & Another Instant-Classic Pagoda Story)
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Gizmo: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Lounge Lizards podcast presented by Fabrica five. It's so good to have you here. It's a leisure and lifestyle podcast founded on our love and premium cigars, as well as whiskey, travel, food, work, and whatever else we feel like getting into. My name is Gizmo. Tonight I'm joined by Rooster Senator Pagoda, chef Ricky, and bam bam.
And our plan is to smoke a cigar, drink some tequila, talk about life, and of course, have some laughs. So take this as your 204th official invitation to join us and become a card carrying lounge lizard plan. I meet this here once a week. We're gonna smoke a new world cigar tonight. Share our thoughts on it and give you our formal lizard rating.
We discuss an NGO report on Cuban prisoners rolling cigars. We share how not to overheat your cigar while smoking. And another instant classic pagoda story comes to light all among a variety of other things for the next two hours. So sit back, get your favorite drink, light up a cigar, and join as we pair Partido Roble Fino.
Sherry cask. Finish Tequila Reposado with the My Father Blue in Torah. [00:01:00] A Torah from Honduras on the pod tonight, boys from my father. It's their brand new line, the blue, and it's a 54 ring gauge cigar by six inches long. And I gotta tell you. My father hasn't performed very well on this podcast, but I am You think very optimistic about this cigar tonight?
Well, um, coming primarily with Honduran tobacco, Connecticut wrapper on it, but made in Honduras, we have fallen in love with, with Honduran tobacco. Mm-hmm. So I'm hoping that for my father tonight, this is a, a winner. Yeah. Heard a lot of rumblings about this around town. A lot of people love it. Yeah. I've seen a lot of people smoking it.
Well,
Pagoda: a lot of people loved all out of my father's as well. That's also true.
Gizmo: But this is not the best looking cigar you can buy. I will say that. I don't know. I, mine actually looks good. Mine's a little rough. I'm pretty up over here. Yeah, mine's a little rough. I went with Tyson for nine rounds on this thing.
Oh,
Rooster: the rapper looks pretty good.
Gizmo: Yeah.
Chef : Yeah. Got some vascularity on mine.
Gizmo: Yeah. Some [00:02:00] scratches here.
Rooster: Nice little box press. Yeah,
Senator: I mean mine, honestly, if you had no bands on this, it's like a, you think the drone?
Gizmo: Yeah. Alright boys, let's cut this thing. See, we're getting on the cold draw and the wrapper. All
Pagoda: righty.
Gizmo: I've been patient enough
Pagoda: and I'm cutting. Yeah.
Gizmo: I take off the foot band sealed with scotch tape, of course. And this one, I'm so fortunate the scotch tape is actually on the wrapper of the cigar. How wonderful. So we'll see how this goes.
Chef : Oh, it's not what I was expecting on the cold draw from what I was getting on the aroma of the foot.
It's like minty. Yeah, something like
Gizmo: berry for me. I'm getting berry, berry, berry minty. No, like a blueberry jammy type thing.
Chef : I'm not getting that at all. I'm getting, I'm leaning more vegetable. Mm-hmm.
Gizmo: Yeah, I was gonna say, mine tastes like a little grassy. Yeah, I'm getting more mint and berry than grass.
I'm getting grass. [00:03:00] Alright boys, let's like this thing, the My father blue in Toro, and again, it's a 54 ring gauge cigar by six inches long coming out of Honduras tonight. Brand new line launched at PCA 2025 and I believe started shipping in July or August of this year. Comes in four sizes. We'll go through those.
Do we know how much this cost? So the cost on these Bam is MSRP. 12 bucks. Not bad. It's a 10. Pretty good price. That's a pretty good price for a Touro. This is gonna take a lot of butane. Yes, Jesus. Especially with its single torch like that. Pretty nice off the light.
Pagoda: Yeah. But it doesn't feel ura the way like we are kind of used to it, or at least the way I'm used to it.
I was expecting light different. Ah, I think it's
Gizmo: delicious. The, the, the retro is fantastic. I really like it on the light. [00:04:00] Yeah, me too. No,
Pagoda: it's very nice, but it's not giving me like the, is it very Cubans, Cubans thing?
Chef : It's not giving
Gizmo: you the floral notes. Is it buttery for you? I'm again, it's kind of buttery for me right now.
In a strange way. I think buttery is an interesting way to put it. Yeah. But butter. A little bit of salt. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Butter is spot on. Butter. Butter is salt. It's definitely salty. It's a salty butter. Yeah. It's different though as pagoda sand from what I expect out of Honduran tobacco, but not in a bad way.
Yeah. Pagoda, are you getting margarine? No, no, no,
Pagoda: no. That's maade buddy.
Gizmo: Mm. It's definitely different. Oh, it's, I'm shocked how easy this is to smoke.
Senator: Yeah. I could smoke this. I like it. I do too. It's smooth but flavorful. Um. There's like the savory, kinda [00:05:00] salted butter, but you also get some sweet notes and like a faint bit of like cocoa in the background. Correct. Right. In
Pagoda: the end I think it uh, finishes over with a little bit of cocoa or Yeah.
Gizmo: And I think it has a very long finish like I'm tasting.
Pagoda: I agree. I agree. The cigar
Gizmo: quite a bit after I draw it. And the retro for me is very biscuity. I was gonna say Little bready. Yes. Yeah. Doy little, which is really quite nice.
Chef : Mm-hmm. So I smelling the wrapper earlier. I was getting oval team notes and that's what I'm kind of getting here.
I'm getting at Oval team. Yeah. I like that. And that's specific. Did you guys pretty fair
Rooster: up with that Oval team? Yeah.
Chef : By you? By you guys? You mean Puerto Ricans or No, no, no. Rooster strikes again.
Senator: Rooster means people born after 1900. That's correct.
Rooster: I mean, in the US was Oin a thing?
Chef : Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oin was a thing I'd say in the, uh, I don't know.
I
Rooster: mean, I mean we grew up with, O wasn't invented here. What
Chef : is Ovaltine? It was,
Ricky: I think us It's a
Rooster: chocolate milk, like a powdered, it's a powdered chocolate C Even Puerto
Senator: Ricans
Pagoda: have
Ricky: it.
Rooster: That's
Ricky: correct.
Pagoda: Listen, si [00:06:00] Seinfeld did an episode on that, did a Seinfeld episode on all the tea. I think you're right.
That's true. Yeah.
Chef : Yeah, yeah. Yeah. There's just, you know, ba bam usually calls out like that carbohydrate note. Mm-hmm. You know, and there's definitely a cocoa carb I think that's in here.
Gizmo: Yeah.
Chef : That biscuity kind of almost, uh, malted like.
Gizmo: I will, I will go out on a limb saying it. It seems fairly Honduran.
There's something to that. Oh yeah, I got a little spice.
Pagoda: I don't know. You know,
Senator: this is a piro. Yeah. This is not a piro. No. Okay. I was gonna say, so let's talk, let's talk about the, uh, makeup of this. Okay. This, to me makes sense to me. Tastes like the ultimate hybrid between like Honduran and Nicaraguan. So you're gonna be surprised about this.
I kind of like that. There's no Nicaraguan tobacco in this.
Gizmo: The wrapper is Connecticut broadleaf Rosado. The binder and filler are both Honduran and it all has been grown at the new Lencia, which is the family's first farm in Honduras, [00:07:00] located in Langa. And it was made at their new factory. Uh, and this is the first line coming out of their new factory in Honduras.
So the wrapper was grown in Honduras? No, the binder in filler, the wrap is Connecticut.
Senator: Uh, can I see? I see. But that's crazy. The filler is entirely Honduran.
Gizmo: There is no Nicaragua, there's no Dominican.
Senator: Mm-hmm.
Gizmo: There is no other tobacco in the binder and filler.
Senator: To me, this is like a padron and like a Honduran cigar mated and like this is what we have in our hand.
This is the fullest Honduran
Rooster: tobacco I've ever had. Yeah. Yeah.
Senator: Really
Rooster: ever tasted. Definitely. You getting for the flavor, not strength. Yeah. The flavor. Flavor.
Gizmo: Flavor wise, it's very flavorful. So I agree
Pagoda: with that. The body is very medium for me. Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely medium. In fact, I'm feeling it's, yeah, definitely medium.
Like for me, it doesn't like, uh, the expectation of a hondu cigar is just very, very different. I, I, I, I'd like to have this
Gizmo: with a Trinity Reus, though. Back to back. I had a Trinity REO on the way here actually today. And what do you think [00:08:00] it's, that was a great starter for this. Very different, it is very different.
I had one last week. It was outstanding. I am surprised that we've now had a third manufacturer out of Honduras producing something. What? That really kind of tastes completely different mm-hmm. Than what I expect from Fabrica five, which I'm very familiar with. Mm-hmm. And Aino as well. Correct. We talked about quite a bit.
This is quite a bit different than those two. Yeah.
Rooster: Do you, do you think they're chasing the Cuban flavor and going after, I don't think a hundred tobacco don't that don's an intention? Do you that reach
Gizmo: that? Well, I think Fabrica five certainly is. I think that was right. Yeah. Impetus for the mofo wine and pure story story.
Just the way the
Rooster: Cuban prices are, you know, you would think that the manufacturers want to kind of replicate that and present it to the consumer at a, at a much economical,
Senator: you know, palatable price. I mean, I think, like you said, clearly fabric of five is, I think Aino is obviously to an extent they talk about, you know, Cuban seed, all that that's true.
Um, but I don't think this is in any way. [00:09:00] Look at the cigar, those cigars. Look, you know, Cubans Cuban, like a box press, like, you know, broadleaf wrapper is not really meant to look Cuban as, I mean,
Rooster: this doesn't even taste like Honduran tobacco to me.
Senator: No, not at all. But does
Gizmo: it taste, I don't know if I agree with that.
Yeah, I I do think there is a softness to the tobacco. Yeah. That is very Honduran though. But if, if I, the recipe is a little different than what I'm expecting. If
Rooster: I told you this is a Nicaraguan puo, you'd be fine. You'd probably believe it.
Pagoda: I would believe
Gizmo: it. No,
Pagoda: I don't
Rooster: know if I would believe it. I don't.
So, because the strength isn't there. That's the thing. Exactly. Like, but we ever had some Nicaraguan cigars puo that are, that don't have that strength of a pad drum. I don't remember any. That's all true.
Senator: But this is the lightest in strength of any cigar of this kind. And what's very intriguing to me about this cigar, if all the way through what I'm experiencing right now holds, you know, as much as I'm obsessed with an X placebo, you know, I rarely have an placebo in the morning.
That's not typically a morning cigar for me. But there's, you know, [00:10:00] so many times where like what would be perfect for me is like, I want more flavor, like in an exvivo, but just dial down strength. It's perfect to start my day. Correct. And if this holds all the way through, like I would reach for this often in a morning or afternoon slot where like I want a lot of flavor, but just delivered in like a super toned down way.
Sure. So I, I think like that's where in trying this, I would say like there's gotta be some Honduran back where something that is taming this to such a degree that I would pick up what tastes like a Nicaraguan cigar. Mm-hmm. In the morning, which I never really normally would. Yeah. I,
Rooster: I hope to make some smaller sizes in this because a toro for breakfast has been much, I you not for, not for, I
Pagoda: thought you have the 90th for breakfast.
Yeah, the size. The size. Alright. I'm talking about seventh. The 90th is a Touro. I
Senator: don't even think there are multiple
Pagoda: sizes, but I don't know. I'm having a slightly different experience. I think for me it's definitely between medium, slightly over medium. Like medium [00:11:00] plus strength. Um, I'm getting a little bit of uh, uh, spice in it, but even slightly pepper spice.
Yeah. So I like, for me it's not relating to Honduran cigar. I'm getting a little bit of
Rooster: pepper and it's a little,
Gizmo: I'm only getting a little peppery on, on the burn line. Same zero. The burn line is where
Senator: you get the pepper. Not
Gizmo: on the palette. Zero pepper for me. I'm getting wonder. I just got a cocoa blast.
Senator: I also wonder, just feel your cigar near where the ashe is. Is it hot? I'm worried that the cigars burning a a little too hot. Yes,
Gizmo: it's it's hot.
Senator: You gotta slow down Mine. Mine is not. Mine is pretty cool. Which is why I'm not getting any pepper. Oh yeah. Mine. I can hold
Gizmo: right there.
Senator: I think
Gizmo: jaw well done so far by my phone.
Yeah. Nice opening. Nice opening. I gotta give it to him. It's shocking. I'm impressed how good this is. And I think what this cigar is doing is. It's reaching for a different type of consumer than who normally smoked my father's cigars. This to me is closer to the other line from my father. The, uh, Don Pepin, the blue.
Yeah. That we did the ERO in very good point. Not in flavor, but in [00:12:00] strength. Like it's down a notch from that heavy Nicaraguan that, yeah, my father puts up. If you let those Don Pepin sit for a little, a little while, they become very Cuban esque over time. This, I don't think it's Cuban esque at all. Not even just from the look of it, but from the flavor profile.
But, um, it's very, very pleasant. It is. And I, I went on a limb earlier. I said it to me, Honduran, I agree with what everything you've said, it's very easy to smoke and very creamy, which is shocking
Senator: for this. Marco. I agree with you on that. Shocking. And I'm glad to see this from my father because even the my father's cigars that I've tried or we've reviewed that I like, but I wouldn't say love what I always remember about them young, there's like, you get this, um, they're harsh.
It makes you're harsh like the back of your throat. You grow hair on front,
Gizmo: your fucking bottom of your souls smoking that cigar.
Senator: Are you talking about love is you all, I mean, not just that, like even that, uh, the, my father, number four, that [00:13:00] Lan Sarah, like that just has a little bit of harshness in the back of your throat when you're smoking that cigar.
And it just needs more time. And I feel like with Honduran tobacco, our experience has been, you know, fresh. It's great. Like it doesn't need as much time. Mm-hmm. As like, you know, Padron lets their Nicaragua and tobacco sit for four years in 64 line. So I just think for my father, it's helpful to have some tamer tobacco that's ready to smoke younger, that we don't need to wait
Gizmo: on it.
It's helpful to have a cigar from them that's actually elegant. Yeah. And pretty sophisticated from what we're getting right now. I think. I love the like baby blue or light blue that they have. Yeah. The presentation is awesome. That's awesome. It's beautiful. I love the, so for the listener who doesn't have one of these in their hand right now, bam.
You're better explaining this than I am. So there's two bands on it, correct. The top one has MF and the classic kind of elegant cursive, I would say. Yeah. And it's two tone baby blue, one darker at the bottom and at the bottom of the upper band. And in that emblem where the logo is, is it's a shade [00:14:00] lighter baby blue.
It's called Ombre.
Gizmo: Okay. Thank you. And it's got of course this very light gold scripture in, in, in red as well. It's really quite handsome, but it's kind of like all their bands, they're very ornate in general. Yeah. I am not a fan of their bands. I love this. I think it looks really nice. This is nice. This one I like a lot.
Yeah.
Chef : They tend to be rather large. Yes. And And ornate. Yeah.
Gizmo: And this had an annoying footprint.
Chef : That's right. It reminded me of I, yeah.
Gizmo: So points. Let's talk about the other vitos in the line. So like I said, this launched here in 2025 with four sizes. First up, we have the Toro that we're smoking 54 by six.
There's a Toro Gordo 60 by six. There's a Robusto 54 Fi. Godo would love that. 54, he would loves a Godo 54 by five and a quarter. That's Theo. He's a Borno. Jesus.
The silence is deafening, [00:15:00] coulda resist. And there's a petite robusto for, uh, senator for breakfast. 50 reengage cigar by four and a half inches long. That's perfect. Honestly, 50 by four and a half. And the MSRP on that is nine bucks. Love these prices. The most expensive in the four, of course, is the Toro Goro tops out at 13 bucks.
That's still pretty good. So I think this is pretty reasonable. The Robusto 10 50. So a box of those 210, a box of these that we have in our hand, two 40 I, I think these prices are very reasonable. Agreed. It's nice to see it.
Pagoda: Agreed. Yeah. 13 bucks for a godo. Not bad at all. Hey, if you guys want more of it.
Oh, he's
Gizmo: got, he's got a box of Gordos. Yeah. So how did you end up buying a box of Gordos Accidentally? So just to set the scene, I think we talked about this, was it last week when Pagoda wasn't here? He looks thrilled to talk about this. So Senator was with him in New York City, and we'll talk a little bit more about that later.
But set the [00:16:00] scene here. Senator. So you are smoking the aging room, correct? The, yeah, the concerto. The concerto. And he has a ba unbranded cigar.
Senator: This might have happened even at the lounge. I actually
Gizmo: think so. Unbranded bullshit. Because he
Senator: had an unbranded cigar that looked huge and I was like, what is that?
Like a, but he gave 50, like 58 and he's like,
Pagoda: yeah, that, that was in the lab.
Senator: Yeah. And he's, he just like, has this funny look at his face and he's like. Um, uh, no, it's, uh, it's just unbended. And I'm like, what do you mean? It's just unbended? Like, is it, is it a bahi? No, it's another cigar. And I'm like, well, what cigar?
He is like, ah, you'll, you'll, you'll never guess what it is. So he finally tells me he's smoking the exact same cigar that I am. And I'm like, why the hell do you have it in his 60 ring age? And he said he ordered an entire box by the steak board. Two, two boxes. Oh my God. And he opened them and started smoking them instead of sending them back.
So how was it?
Pagoda: You know, the first half is pretty good. Mm-hmm. I think after that it just becomes a little too, [00:17:00] have you considered sending the second box back? No. I'm gonna sell it to a buddy of mine. There you go.
Rooster: For double the price. Always transac, double the price. Sell it to lizard.
Pagoda: They, they, they're like larger sizes anyway. They like larger ring games. There you go. Yeah. So there you go. Darn. Everyone's happy. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But that was funny because I was trying to avoid that conversation. But, but you know, you can't get, Senator doesn't stop. Yeah. You can't get anything past Senator.
He's like so observant. Correct. And that he can read
Ricky: faces and I don't know what the hell, I don't know how you play poker. Pagoda.
Rooster: I don't know. And he plays it well. And he wins. He wins. Did they ship you the wrong size or did you order the wrong size?
Pagoda: I thought no, I thought I'd ordered, uh, you know, pyramid?
Yeah. Torpedo. The torpedoes. My issue. Let's
Senator: take bets on this. Whose fault do we think it was? I'm keeping
Rooster: my money out. Giving Pagoda the benefit of the down, sir. Correct.
Senator: I did ask him the same question though. I asked him to [00:18:00] check for his receipt, but I don't think you could find it. I don't remember.
Chef : No comment.
When was the last No comment out. When
Gizmo: was the last time anyone here smoked a godo? Well, I can't tell you neither can I? Well, yesterday he has one with them now. I'm just kidding.
Senator: Wow. Did we do one Gordo on the pod?
Gizmo: Mm-hmm We did. Well, we did the Rocky Patel 60. That honestly may be the only Gordo I've ever smoked.
Yeah. I don't think we have done another 60 ring gauge cigar, have we? I don't think so. Maybe the Bihi K 58 is close. About as close as you can. Close as you can get to a a that's almost like a Gordo extra with the length of that. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But, uh, that's a 58. That's not a 60.
Pagoda: I do have that one Placencia line with me.
Senator: Oh, that's right. The
Pagoda: octagon. That's
Senator: right.
Pagoda: Oof.
Senator: It's a big cigar.
Gizmo: Pagoda is secretly a big Gordo guy. That's also a monster. So, boys, let's go to some news before we go to our pairing tonight. We'll start with this one. This was a pretty big news story we talked about a few weeks ago where [00:19:00] Arturo Fuente announced that they have ended the international distribution agreement with the company MIP fell, uh, who served as the company's international distributor for markets other than in the US and then in the Dominican Republic.
We talked about this. That was a pretty big story because those families have been working together, I think for three generations providing, you know, Mirab Fell, has provided Cameroon tobacco for the Fuentes.
Pagoda: Mm.
Gizmo: And then the MIP fell, started selling Fuente products internationally, again, outside the us And the Dr, we kind of threw out the question mark of is the RA entire relationship over, or is it just the international distribution?
Is, is, are the Fuentes just trying to take more of the pie? You know, as far as their distribution model, which obviously we've seen Haos and others do, and it's now been confirmed by the Mirab Fells that Arturo Fuentes relationship with them is over.
Pagoda: Mm-hmm. [00:20:00]
Gizmo: The impact of this is pretty big because Cameroon.
Tobacco, especially good wrapper, is what the Fuente family uses on the Don Carlos line. So this to me is saying that, of course Fuente probably has a massive stockpile of tobacco to keep manufacturing, but at some point in the near future, the Don Carlos line is gonna be changing significantly. Yeah.
Because the mirror fells are really the only ones who grow Cameroon tobacco in Cameroon. Mm-hmm. In at scale. Now there's others growing Cameroon, as we know in other places of the world. But Mi Fells have been very, very famous for that. And this line will change in flavor profile and then burn. I happen to love a few of those cigars, except of course the shark shark.
The number two's very good, but the Don Carlos number two, it's great. I fell in love with that years ago. I still love that cigar. It's very, very good.
Rooster: The Hemingway series does I use camera too?
Gizmo: I believe that. I believe that does. Yeah. I believe that does. Yeah. So there's gonna be a lot of change with those lines.
Yeah's a big,
Rooster: that's a big line. There's a lot of [00:21:00] cigars.
Gizmo: It's huge from the Fuentes. All right, so let's, let's read the statement. So the Miek Fells say that the two families who've been business partners for decades have quote ceased, trading together. And here is the press release signed by Jeremiah Fel, who is the figurehead now for the company.
He says, for decades, our family has poured investment into our distribution business with a significant emphasis. The Arturo Fuente brands. Indeed, our investment has gone well beyond the financial committing our time, knowledge, and passion to help building the Arturo Fuente brands. The two families have a history together spanning three generations, and Mup Fell, is incredibly proud of what we have been able to achieve for the Fuente family.
Unfortunately, Fuente and MIP fell, have ceased trading together. We are disappointed and saddened by this, and it brings an important chapter in our esteemed history to a close. So that's a pretty unfortunate statement [00:22:00] from the Mip Fells. I mean, doing business with folks for decades, I mean, something not great must have happened.
Sure. I mean, did the quality of the rapper decline? Was there some sort of funky business happening, like who knows? Unlikely the quality decline something else. It's interesting to see a breakup like this. Yeah. In the cigar industry, which, you know, the Fuentes, the Mi fells, the Pones, everybody kind of celebrates this family thing and handshake deals and, you know, doing business together for long periods of time.
So it's just sad to see, uh mm-hmm these two companies parting ways. So we'll keep you updated as we learn more and, uh, as we find out what Fuentes plan is for those lines that use, that came. Tobacco, um, in the coming months.
Rooster: I'm, I'm not gonna lose sleep over it. No.
Gizmo: Alright boys, it's time now to go to our pairing and we are back to agave.
Thank the Lord. We have the partita Robeno, Sherry Oak Finn Tequila [00:23:00] Reposado tonight. Chef Ricky brought this in for us and I'm very excited to try it. It's been sitting in our glass now for about 20, 25 minutes, so cheers boys. Cheers.
Chef : Cheers. Cheers.
Gizmo: Salud. Good to see you all. Pagoda, welcome back. It's been a couple weeks.
Pagoda: Yeah, it's uh, yeah, been in and out, but hopefully, uh, back in a more consistent pace. It's going forward.
Gizmo: Business has been booming at Carnegie. Correct. This is a very unique tequila. It packs a punch about to tell you why, and it's different. It packs a punch.
Chef : All right, so guys, we have Tequila Partido here, Rob.
Wow, that was a pronunciation different than mine.
Senator: No, it was just the same. Can you repeat that please? Well done.
Chef : The master distiller here is uh, Jose Valdez. He's been the master distiller for Illa since 2004. Um, this is a lowland tequila, so from the valley of tequila. So we'll get some earthier, uh, more mineral like tones here.
Oh yeah. But we still get [00:24:00] creamy vanilla butter scotch because of the aging. Um, something that I find super exciting for this. So this is, uh, six months in. Rich bourbon barrels. Then it goes to two months finished in Dalmore, uh, sherry cask, uh, scotch barrels I than single malt scotch barrels.
Gizmo: Well, I was gonna say, this drinks like a fucking scotch.
Chef : Yeah. So it has a dryer finish towards the end.
Gizmo: I, I'm not kidding. Uh, it's for an unseasoned palette. It'd be difficult to discern.
Chef : Huh?
Gizmo: So
Chef : I had this, uh,
Gizmo: you say that like, it's hard work, babe. You're like, Adam bru, you're, I'm be sweating over there. I actually was starting to break a sweat. Jesus. That thing that, that drink packs a punch.
Dude, that is not, uh, a light, light man's tequila. I think it takes some time. Warm don think warms don't packs that much. I did take a good amount down, but Wow.
Chef : And I, I mean, I think we each have maybe some heat, maybe four ounces in our glass.
Gizmo: Yeah. It's
Chef : generous that we started with, so it's gonna take some time for that to kind of air out.
But I think [00:25:00] as we go, we're gonna see our pallets adjust and we're gonna get some of the sweeter, more nuanced notes. Uh, they're already coming through for me. Um, I had this a few, a couple months ago, the master distiller came to the restaurant, uh, to just talk to us about, uh, this bottle. And upon tasting it, I was like, this is gonna be perfect for the pot one day.
So, and I think it's going good with this cigar so far. I think it's pulling out. So when you guys had the whole conversation about how, you know, I was in, I was. In the same camp as Pagoda and Rooster at one point, but then your advice
Gizmo: rooster,
Chef : your advice about checking, uh, near the yash to see if your cigar was hot.
Mine was, mine was too.
Gizmo: Mine too.
Chef : I made an effort to not touch it for a little bit. Slow down a little bit. Yeah. And just slow down. 'cause you started with a single flame torch. I did. I had this steel welder here. Mm-hmm. Um, so I'm guessing on my, you know, my [00:26:00] toast and my light was a lot hotter, so I was getting more of that pepper and kind of bitterness coming through.
Is
Senator: that reduced now?
Chef : A hundred percent. That's the thing. Yeah. It's all, it's all gone. And I, 'cause I wasn't getting any of those beautiful rich floral notes that I found in, you know, many all Dinos or, or even our, our, our fab five, uh, cigars. Uh, so
Rooster: the pepper was very faint though.
Chef : No, for me it was pretty strong.
It was, it was a little bitter strong. Interesting. Yeah. So heating up the cigar
Gizmo: is putting pepper on your palate? Is It was, yeah. No, this
Senator: is a really important, uh, just aside for the listener happens. This happens with almost every cigar. Exactly. The way to just test this. If you overheat a cigar, when you hold it with two fingers near the burn line on the wrapper.
Mm-hmm. If it's so hot that you can't hold it in your fingers for more than a few seconds without feeling like you're burning yourself, you've overheated the cigars. Correct. You just need to be patient. Give it time, let it cool down, don't draw, and then start drawing again. Um, and I say this 'cause there have been [00:27:00] cigars that like.
I know I really love and enjoy and I'll have like this off experience. Mm-hmm. And I'll realize when I hold the scar, I say, oh shit, it's really hot. By the end, uh, by the ash, I've just either drawn too much or the draws more open than normal. So I need to just draw less aggressively and I've overheated it.
And that's what's messing up the flavor and giving me that spice. When the temperature comes down, you get the flavor you're supposed
Gizmo: to. I love this. I love this point because I'm often handing cigars to other people that I know. You have to slow down on. Really? Not in this room. No. And I never will again, but when I do that comment piss ba off.
I see it. I see it in his comment. I see it in face. You're kidding. But you know what though? For all the age, I teed you up for that, for all the age. Jokes, jokes ied you up for that. But when I hand someone a cigar that I think smokes beautifully and they tell me that it's bitter or they didn't like it, or it, it was peppery
Rooster: and I'd look you, you touched the cigar.
No,
Gizmo: [00:28:00] I looked at it. You smoked it way too fast. Learn how to slow the fuck down a little bit. Mm-hmm. Enjoy it a little bit. Just take your time. Yeah. Alright. Oh, passion's over. Yeah. Tru kilo comes. No.
Chef : And, and to Senator's Point, it wa it was a very open. It was very open and I obviously, I think that kind of accelerated the burning and everything.
It's a
Gizmo: great point
Chef : though. But yeah, I, once it's cooled down and it's kind of coming into this real great sweet spot with the tequila right now that I'm enjoying, so, so I You really like
Gizmo: the pairing moving from
Pagoda: Nicaragua into Hondura? Yeah.
Gizmo: I don't know about the pairing yet. I think I'm, I'm enjoying it.
I feel like the tequila overwhelms the cigar a bit. This is a, this is a pretty easy smoke and the tequila right now for me is not that easy to drink. I feel like the tequila is just like the cigar in that there's a lot of flavor there and not a lot of oomph. I couldn't agree more. Like I actually do think that the tequila is [00:29:00] complimenting the cigar and the cigar is complimenting the tequila.
Especially when I do a retro hale after I take a sip. Mm-hmm. A retro man, it's, it's right on the money. Bam. Yep. I'm gonna take some time. That's salted, buttery thing we were talking about, which I'm still getting on the cigar. I am too. Yeah. It's really working nicely with the tequila. Yeah. I think
Chef : what's throwing bam off a little is the scotch finish.
It is really present here for me. It is. And yeah, it is really present at, at the, at the end,
Pagoda: I'm gonna let this sit, I'll
Gizmo: let my
Pagoda: pal adjust. So, so for me, when I'm, uh, drinking the tequila, I'm finding it a lot more sweeter in the beginning, uhhuh. And then when I'm letting it trickle down on the side, that's when I know, oh, it's a bloody tequila.
Yeah, it's, yeah.
Gizmo: The only other tequila that I can remember sipping that is finished in some other kind of odd cask, I guess in a category closer to what a cigar smoker's normally smoking in bourbon or or scotch or whatever is the tequila Ocho widow jane edition. Yeah. Correct. Which is finished in widow Jane barrels.
And that tequila, while tasty mm-hmm is probably the tequila that puts me in the [00:30:00] worst morning after situation that I've ever been in on tequila.
Bam Bam: Agreed. And is really tasty.
Gizmo: It's really rough.
Bam Bam: It's tasty.
Gizmo: It's really rough for me. This is smooth. I like
Senator: it.
Gizmo: I'll just
Senator: say the, the tequila, this is super interesting to me in the sense that if you didn't tell me this was a reposado and asked me to guess, it's so flavorful, I would have guessed.
It's an anejo.
Gizmo: Me too.
Senator: And I think it's really cool that it has as much flavor as an anejo, but the delivery is still smooth. Like you'd expect a reposado to be like it. It's not bumped up in proof or anything like that. So I like it. And I think, like you said, like that's what this cigar is doing in many ways.
So I really like the pairing and I just have to say on this cigar, everything I'm getting right now, I am loving, I am shocked. This is the first my father's cigar I have ever had. Correct. [00:31:00] That like. I'm in love with right now. Yeah. Yeah. Flavor's awesome. I see this ticking over your morning slot. It
Gizmo: very well could And the petite rib busto, correct?
Oh, yeah. I think this is a fantastic first entrant from my father right now in their Honduran segment of their business. Agreed. Look at the smoke output, the combustion's great. It's unbelievable. I, I mean, this is just a home run coming out of, this is the first thing they've put out with Honduran tobacco from their own Honduran tobacco.
Mm-hmm. It's excellent. Yeah. Yeah. Every,
Rooster: everything about the cigar is, you know, it just, it just delivers. It's fantastic. It's on, you know, the price point is great. Yep. The size of the cigar. I mean, for, what is it? $12? 12 bucks. 12 bucks for a Toro, you know, and what you're getting, I think it's a great blend.
Agreed. Uh, it, it's also, I mean, I'm getting a little bit of an earthiness from this. Mm-hmm. It's earthy and nutty, getting notes. Even some cocoa is present. Yeah. You know, it's salty, yet sweet. That's true. It's a good, it's a good blend.
Gizmo: Balanced. Great. Balance. Balance. Super complex. Balanced. Yeah. [00:32:00] Very balanced.
And I, again, I can't stop thinking about how, I love how we now have three manufacturers that are just incredibly different from each other coming out of Honduras that are still very smooth, easy to smoke, you know, kind of on that more palatable, like mild to medium side of strength, you know, in all Dino, in Fabrica five, and now in this, my father, I mean.
We have three very different types of cigars that are from Honduras. It's true. Yeah. And they're all different.
Senator: Yeah. This is also a great gateway for like a cigar smoker that normally likes something on the milder side that would never, you know, touch a Maduro or something fuller in flavor. This is like a perfect transition into those types of smokes.
Like I would give this to honestly anyone at really any stage in their cigar journey. Yeah. And I think that's a huge merit that like, we're obviously very experienced. This satisfies our palate, and I think for a novice, this would be also really enjoyable [00:33:00] for them. As long as they smoke, it's slow
Gizmo: and as long as this cigar finishes the way it started, or better, we shall see.
Alright, boys. Now we're gonna talk about Cuba a little bit. We have a couple news stories, and I was actually gonna try to avoid talking about this specific news topic, but I think I counted, I think we had 17 emails on this specific article coming out from Reuters and The Guardian and the mm-hmm.
Headline of this is Cuban Prisoners Forced to Work, making Cigars and Charcoal for Export to Europe, A NGO Report Claims. So I'm gonna read a little bit of this, a little bit of this to you, and we can discuss this. I, I, like I said, I, I was really trying to avoid, must we discuss this, discussing this, but yeah.
Is there anything positive that comes outta Cuba?
Pagoda: We have some,
Gizmo: we have some positives. So it says here, uh, prisoners in Cuba are forced to work producing the country's world famous cigars and charcoal, so sold to European consumers according to a new report. [00:34:00] So a Madrid, Spain non-government organization called the Prisoners' Defenders estimates that at least 60,000 people are being forced to work with little to no pay under threats and exhausting conditions, and without adequate equipment, with reports of violence, including sexual abuse of female detainees.
So, I mean, that's just a horrible start to this, this whole conversation. But I mean, it seems to me like they have talked to, I guess, family members of these people and have collected a significant amount of reports of this happening. So of course, my first thought was there's no way that Haos and the Cuban government are going to allow.
Folks under these conditions to be producing cigars for exports. Like maybe they're for cigars inside Cuba for, you know, not for haos or something. I'm trying to put some kind of logic into this. Yeah, I think this is just propaganda. How can you produce a quality cigar in prison under conditions like that?
You've gotta [00:35:00] be all your, all your equipment, your cutting material, your, all your bales of tobacco. How is it brought to you? How is it all organized? The farms, how is it, you know, how is it fer? Is it fermented? They bring it to the prison and they leave Where Yeah, I, teaching the logistics are just impossible.
Yeah. So I thought the same thing. Bam. You get a cutting table in your room. I have no idea. I mean, what are you doing it on the bed? So this was a comment I saw in FOH from a very reputable source, Johnny o and he wrote, they have been rolling an El Combi del Estee prison for most of this year. And it is supervised by rollers and management from the La Corona factory.
It is a maximum security prison housing. Some of Cuba's worst bad guys, many are in there for murder. They say the quality is quite good. Great. Sorry. The way that
Pagoda: did,
Gizmo: the way that ended, I know, I, I, I mean, I, it's ter terrible to laugh, but I don't know what else. I mean, this is such a crazy, [00:36:00] obscene, ridiculous story.
Chef : It went from being scared to smoke a Cuban to Oh, okay, the quality's great.
Gizmo: Or a
Ricky: Cuba's out. Is that prison now? La Corona
Gizmo: Annex?
Senator: Is that what it's, I guess, I guess it's, yeah. Can't wait for a prison box code.
Gizmo: Right. Exactly. I'm, you know what I'm sure they do is I'm sure if that's, if this is happening, like these reports are saying, which is terrible, that we're even talking about this, it's crazy.
If this is the case, then I'm assuming what happens is they're rolling the cigars there, they're shipping 'em then to the factory to be color matched. Mm-hmm. Banded boxed and, you know, put into master crates. But I, I mean, this is just a, a really weird and terrible thing to come out. I mean, I hate reading this.
Yeah. I, I, I, I don't, it taints like my view of things. I don't buy it. I don't believe it.
Senator: I don't think, I mean, I'm sorry. Ba I It sounds farfetched. It does. I'm with you there. It does lock Corona staff going to prison. But these people don't get to choose where they go or
Gizmo: what they do. So here's a question.
Do we really
Senator: think if there's a shortage of rollers, Cuba is hurting more [00:37:00] than it has ever been and they need to just find ways to just keep generating revenue. Right? So here's a, we really wouldn't put it past the Cuban government to just force these people to go to these prisons and make them manufacture more.
Anything is possible
Gizmo: there. So the report continues and says, it has confirmed that cigar production is occurring in at least seven prisons in Cuba, involving the forced labor of 505 inmates yielding just under 12 million cigars a year, equivalent to 7.5% of Cuba's total annual national production. Can I ask you a question?
How, how were those prisoners trained and how long did it take for them to get trained? They need training. Yeah, I'm sure nothing else to do. I mean, I'm sure that they're being forced to do this. The odors are going to prison and training the prisoners. Yeah. Yeah. That's what said. I'm sure they would be.
And are they getting paid?
Senator: Mm-hmm. No.
Gizmo: No. Okay. No way. 'cause the alternative
Senator: I'm sure is if they don't do it, they're dead. Yeah. So
Gizmo: I'm a murderer. I'm on death row in Cuba. I'm dead. They're gonna kill me. I know it. I'm gonna enthusiastically roll high [00:38:00] quality cigars.
Chef : I think those are all the regional releases.
They're rolling. Like
Gizmo: honestly, like
Chef : I, I
Gizmo: don't know what to say. Ba I I don't, if I'm on death row, I, I don't people Hold on, hold on. I They're not on, they're not on
Senator: death row. There is no such thing. If they wanted to kill them, they would kill. They would kill. Yeah. They're there for lengthy sentences with a clear ability to get out.
He did say murderers, but Yeah, for sure. I mean, I I, you don't get the death penalty in Cuba if you commit murder.
Gizmo: It's a communist state. I think that's, I'm, I've asked
Senator: murder for sure, multiple, but,
Gizmo: so the president of this is crazy. Prisoners defenders, the, the NGO said it was difficult to No. Under which brands?
The goods reached consumers because they were produced unbranded. Unbranded really by inmates. So, like I said, I think it's, they're being shipped out un banded to the factory to then be color sorted and, and from there packaged
Senator: lot of RNJ. Oh yeah.
Gizmo: The NGO skate states in the report that the production was quote, destined for export to the global market, including the UK [00:39:00] and covers, quote, all the best known and most revered cigar brands such as Cohiba.
The Guardian contacted Habanas sa, which of course they receive. No reply, no fucking way. Are they rolling Coheed when they have Guido down the street? Gimme a break.
Rooster: But they can't keep up with the production. So I mean,
Senator: there's been a shortage of rollers for years
Gizmo: now. That's true. I don't know. Ba crazier things have happened.
This is true. Crazier things have happened. It's outrageous and it's outrageous. It's crazy. And I honestly, does this make you wanna smoke your Cuban cigars even more or less now? No
Senator: less, I would say. Well, the ones I have, it has no bearing on whatsoever. I'm true. Doesn't not worried about smoking what's in my tower, but
Gizmo: God knows how long that's
Senator: been in place.
But when, next time I'm in another country and I walk in an LCDH, I'm literally gonna have to think like, correct. Yeah. Is this a box that's been rolled by some murderer that was forced to do this?
Gizmo: That's a death row vintage. But you'll still smoke it. You smoke it, but you'll still smoke it.
Rooster: And what, what, uh, what stamp would be on it?
Would it be La Corona?
Gizmo: I don't know. I'm, that's what I said. I think, think the cigars are being shipped to the factory. Say, like Senator said, it's gonna be a prison code now [00:40:00] there's gonna be no prison code. It's stop. It's gonna be just bars next to it. That's correct. Oh, that's terrible. Alright, so we're making light of this.
Absolute, this is probably the worst. That's awful. In 204 episodes. It's probably the worst thing we've ever discussed and, and read on this podcast. I, I honestly, we have no educated opinion on what's going on here. We have not been informed of any of this. We've not seen it, heard of it until this article came out.
So I wanna make that very clear that this is absolutely an insane. Situation, true or not, the fact that this NGO and they have no vested interest in, you know, there's no financial interest that, you know, if they report or don't on something like this, they, you know, they defend prisoners around the world.
So I, I just find this to be absolutely crazy and I really hope it's not true, but I, I would not be surprised if it's Alright boys. So we're coming to the end of the first third here on my Father Blue in Toro first, third. What's everybody thinking? Well, I'm impressed that pagoda [00:41:00] iss being very patient with the cigar.
Reasonably, yeah. Reasonably patient. I'm, I'm impressed. The cigar is still, still performing great for me
Pagoda: and it tasting really good. I think it's delicious.
Gizmo: Tastes great. A
Pagoda: plus. Yeah.
Gizmo: Really good. Right now I have not one complaint. Same shocking.
Chef : I think if I had one complaint, it's just the ash, it's a little flaky for me.
Wow. Mine's been great. Yeah. But I can see yours at the tip is
Senator: flaky.
Chef : Mm-hmm. I'm used to a little more, I, I'd like a little bit of a sturdier ash, but outside of that, the flavor's been great. It's really settled in, it's going phenomenally well with the tequila at this point. I'm really pulling out like a candied citrus note on the nose of the spirit and it's really, um, just hitting a home run with what the cigars given me at the moment.
Senator: I'm also, sorry, just on the Cuba thing, I can't get this outta my head. It's crazy. I mean, it really is wild. The sad part of like, why this is not that unbelievable. I mean, look at China. Mm-hmm. China has child labor.
Pagoda: Yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah.
Senator: And those are for products where like, it's not that hard to train some little kid how to actually, you know, be [00:42:00] a meaningful part of the production process.
You can't teach a little kid how to roll a cigar. No. Perfectly. Like that's really, their hands are even too small to do that well. So like, what is their only cho uh, option if they're literally gonna try and force
Pagoda: mm-hmm.
Senator: Labor, it's gonna be imprisoned adults. I mean, what else could you do? Yeah. You know, I, it's not as farfetched as it sounds.
It's awful if that's really happening. Sure. But it's not unbelievable. It is very possible. It's not,
Gizmo: that's why I, I'm not ruling it out. I mean, every part of my being wants to say that there's no way that this is possible. I agree with you, the good people in this, in the industry down there in Cuba.
Mm-hmm. And I believe there are a lot of good people in the industry. Of course, there hands are forced by the people above them. Mm-hmm. I, I just, I, I really wish, it's not true, but it, i, it is conceivable. That's all I'm saying. Mm-hmm. It is conceivable to me that this is happening. Yeah. And that's pretty terrible to say.
Correct. So, and also, I mean, listen, we're consuming a lot of products that, you know, uh, from around the world, people who are in similar situations [00:43:00] have produced. Mm-hmm. You, you, you think about the Congo and, and some of those, you know, rare earth minerals that have been mined, that are in our phones and on our batteries Oh yeah.
And all these other things. Those people are in the worst of human conditions. It's just, it's crazy that any of these situations can exist in 2025. And unfortunately for what we do here on this podcast to talk about cigars in this light, I wish we didn't have to. So, yeah, it's an unfortunate thing. So now we're gonna go the other way here, boys, and we're gonna talk about the Trinidad 55th anniversary Humidor, which we talked about when it was announced behind plexiglass.
More lunacy at the, a lot of parallels to this, my father. So the, this is the launch of the aging program. Remember the vintage program we talked about where they said that these cigars were aged for 10 years in some secret situation. The Fonda doors. It's so laughable. It's so laughable that, that they're saying that these are aged for 10 years.
So they've [00:44:00] put these cigars out, they've now come out on sale, and these cigars are retailing at $64,000 per humidor, which is averaging out to $1,160 per Trinidad fund of doors.
Chef : Fuck that. Geez.
Gizmo: So that's the price, which, so giz which episode are we reviewing that on? 1000. So cigar aficionado, where I'm reading this from, they summed it up pretty nicely.
They said, uh, you think that's expensive. That's just the price for the standard humidor package. There's also a flashy S St. DuPont Humidor Oh. Designed by French fashion designer, Sharaf Tere set at 175,000, which puts those 55 cigars at $3,174 per cigar.
Pagoda: Then they're all competing with Gorkha. This is crazy.
Gizmo: Senator.
Pagoda: Say it.
Gizmo: So what are we doing? These trinidads are the first release in the Haos Vintage program, which will be [00:45:00] lines, cons of considerably aged cubit cigars. So there's, there's an additional band near the head of the cigar under the traditional Trinidad band, and there's another one on the foot.
And that indicates the cigars were quote unquote aged for 10 years, which is the most laughable thing. Mm-hmm. I've ever heard that Is that Cuba or Haos had the foresight to store tens of thousands of fund Doris for over 10 years to then rebox in, in this crazy humidor. I mean, it's just a l, you know, lunatic.
So
Rooster: would that make it the most expensive cigar out of Haos?
Gizmo: Probably not. If you consider the grand reservist. Mm-hmm.
Senator: Yeah.
Gizmo: And I'm assuming the, some of the high-end bke stuff. 50 eight's gonna be expensive. I mean, even if thousand dollars, even if they put, but not a thousand bucks. But even if they put six, seven, $800 as the MSRP, you're still gonna see it on the market
Senator: for four digits.
But this is the M srp, that's the thing. I mean, actually Rooster May, [00:46:00] this may
Gizmo: be the most
Senator: expensive MSRP probably. And it's just
Gizmo: the start. I mean, wait till they do Cohiba Splendido or Cohiba Ribose or, or any of those other really high end. And what if they do a beke with a vintage band on it? I mean, it's gonna be obscene.
This, this just makes me angry. And then you talk about the previous story that we just discussed, which I don't necessarily wanna intermingle with this one. And it's just like, well you are, this island, this island is, it's just crazy what's going on there. It's
Rooster: extreme. Extreme stuff. Yeah. You know, it's a bipolar
Senator: situation there, man.
Both of these stories, this is desperation. Yeah. Agreed. Agreed. And the, the craziest part of this is without the first story that we just talked through the whole prison situation, I would've been railing on Haos essay about exactly what we're discussing right now. Thousand something for a bullshit cigar that we know is not even age 10 years.
I, I'd be shocked if it's age 10 months, Senator. Right. But in light of the prior story we discussed. I [00:47:00] actually hope they do far more of this and far less of the former. Yeah. Oh, sure. In the sense that like they're desperate for money. They need to produce as much as they can to make money or raise prices so high that they can withstand, uh, obviously lower production.
Mm-hmm. I'd rather them do this and sell these to some billionaire in, you know, China or wherever else. Then have forced labor, you know, manufacturing that that's not what we want. So
Pagoda: yeah.
Senator: Crazily enough have at it, produce this, we are not gonna be purchasers or consumers of it. Correct. Idiots that wanna spend that kind of money, more power to them.
Gizmo: No serious cigar smoker, regardless of how much money he or she has, we'll buy these. Correct. Any update on the power
Rooster: situation? Uh,
Gizmo: it's still very bad. I mean, I think it's gonna probably be six months a year of really, really intermittent power. And of course the reason why these conversations are happening about power is it's because it's impacting tourists and people who go there from, you know, other, other countries.
It's less money. They're not even talking about money. Of course there's much less money and [00:48:00] tourism's their main economic driver. So on top of that, you know, we're hearing stories about what tourists are seeing, but if you go out to the east of Havana. Into, you know, Santiago and those areas and there's so many different provinces in Cuba.
Those folks are really suffering. They're going three, four or five days without power at any given time. And it's just, it's so much worse than what's going on in Havana and in Havana it's bad.
Senator: Even when in those places they had power, they were going half or more the day without it. Yeah. And now it's, that was considered having power and the is really bad.
So
Rooster: not only are the prisoners rolling the cigars in the prisons, they're rolling them in dark.
Gizmo: Correct. Yep. It's a new standard. Terrible setting.
Pagoda: Terrible. Unbelievable. Alright, boys. I must say that's a very logical deduction.
Gizmo: I want to go to a happy story now because I have been waiting weeks to hear this weeks.
Uh, I saw Pagodas [00:49:00] head just swing over at me. I've been waiting weeks to hear this story. I got a little teaser. I didn't get the whole thing. I got a little teaser from Senator, that, Senator Pagoda ended up spending some time together in New York City romantic night, a little, little date night, correct.
For two of the lizards. And, uh, you know, Senator of course went to. Pagodas annex office at the Carnegie Club after some other activities in the city that he had going on. I'm looking right at pagoda pagoda. His eyes are reminiscing right now. I don't remember. I
Senator: really, I am dying to hear this story.
Please tell us. No. So we had a great night there. The story doesn't actually revolve around the night that he and I were there. It revolves around recent
Chef : pagoda
Senator: trip that Pagoda had to Carnegie with some of his friends. That involved, let's just say, not just a lost case, but multiple instances. The exact same.
Just remembered. Wait a minute, of losing items. Another Los Lost case recently. Oh, there's [00:50:00] more than a case. What?
Gizmo: No, I didn't know about this. I
Chef : didn't either.
Gizmo: This is one for the record books. Wait, which case was it? Pagoda Pep is distraught. No, no. Which one is it? Is it the big beautiful Soda Lo? No, he lost them.
Oh, that one. Oh my God. That's gone. The, the nice little brown pouch.
Rooster: Look, the the story ends, ends well, that's, the story doesn't end well. Oh, so,
Gizmo: okay. All right, I'll, I'll go ahead, Senator. Cutting off the mic. Do you mind? Televis Orion? Should I tell? No, you, you, you remembers how it goes every time. That's also correct.
Senator: So Pagoda left Carnegie Club. He was there with some of his friends that he meets. There he is. Getting into a cab. In a cab. In a cab. And while he's in the cab, he realizes that he left his cell phone at the Carnegie Club. Not great cell phone, [00:51:00] not not a case cell phone. Like probably the most important thing you have on you at all times.
That's correct.
Rooster: Especially when you're traveling around the city. Because it was low on power. So he was charging it. Am I correct?
Gizmo: You're right. Why are you getting involved?
Pagoda: Who are you a lawyer? I'm defending him. He's, you know what, we being tariffed very high nowadays. We need some support out. Relax, understand.
Senator: So he leaves his phone at Carnegie. He decides then when he realizes this to jump out of the cab that him and a friend are, are sharing to then walk back to the Carnegie Club
Pagoda: about 10 blocks. 10. And it started raining.
Senator: It starts, oh my God. He calls by pouring like a torrential downpour as this is que so perfectly as these 10 blocks to go retrieve his phone.
So he returns to Carnegie Club, I'm sure at this point Completely soaked, gets [00:52:00] his phone that he left there charging. And then when he gets his phone, his friend from the cab. Calls you. Texts you. No, no.
Pagoda: So what happened is I realized that I don't have my cigar pack. Oh shit.
He left his case in the cab. Oh,
Gizmo: that's a, that's a smallest, this is like a daisy chain of events, leaving deposits wherever you go if your personal items.
Pagoda: No, but to, to, but how do you, so, so the way, so the way the evening also began was I left my credit card and the bill before I left. So shy. Oh, I'm sorry. Uh, that's fine. Listen, he, he picked it up. Can we
Gizmo: have a new nickname
Pagoda: for pagoda? And then, um, so now I'm in the cab and then I realize, oh, I don't have my phone.
So I get off the cab and I ask my friend to continue to catch a train, uh, from New York to New Jersey. And, [00:53:00] uh, then I walk back and it's torrential. It's a torrential downfall. Holy smokes. And I'm trying to, you know, make my way to Carnegie. I end up there, I get the phone, and then I realize I don't have my case.
And I called my friend up and I said, Hey. Did you see my case? Did you pick it up? My friend had got out of the ca cab and had not picked up the case. And the problem with station, you can't, the problem with Penn Station is she, she mentioned they were like at least 15 or 20 yellow cabs and she couldn't recognize which cab she got out of, so she was knocking on a couple of cabs.
Chef : Wow.
Pagoda: Oh boy. But the good news is she found the cab and there were some girls getting in and they found the case and they gave her, how was that
Gizmo: possible?
Pagoda: I, you know, I just got very lucky this time. I think God was smiling on you that night. So you got
Gizmo: the credit card back.
Pagoda: So, yeah, because I ended up in Carnegie, so you know, you went back to Carnegie?
At Carnegie? I got my phone back from [00:54:00] where I called, uh, called my friend to find the case. Right. It's a
Rooster: good thing you have the apple air tags in the case. No,
Ricky: very good thing. Well, you have to have the phone for that to work. No,
Senator: he doesn't even have it with the
Ricky: case. He never
Chef : even, all
Rooster: these activated. So you did, isn't that how she found
Chef : the, uh.
Rooster: They're
Ricky: in the living room. Dumb luck. They're in the living room.
Rooster: They're in the living room. They're in the in case room.
Chef : Is the living room. Good point. Great job Rooster. You're really defending him here. You can
Rooster: get involved now.
Pagoda: Let, let, let
Rooster: him finish.
Pagoda: Let him finish. Let give That told me that he'd come and help you out with those.
Gizmo: What do you mean tag you Literally, I mean, you literally open the package. There's not even words pagoda. There's three pictures of what to do. You pull the tab out, you put it near your phone, you hit the connect button, you're done. You're done. Yeah, it sounds, there's not even sounds
Chef : complicated. You name it.
Yeah, that's it. And then the
Senator: best part was that he was meant to leave Carnegie. So he goes back, then retrieves the case and then decides to have another smoking session there with another [00:55:00] friend who meets him there. That's correct. At probably like 1:00 AM at this point.
Pagoda: Yeah. That I had to take the Uber home.
It was one bloody expensive night, either one. Oh yeah. But you got your phone, you got your case. Yeah. Yeah. And your credit card. And your credit card? No, my, my card, my buddy took it home with him, so Oh wow. I did, I did receive that. Does he still have his,
he's having, he's having some fun. And you're having,
Gizmo: and because of these situations, you're having multiple cigar sessions.
Absolutely.
Pagoda: And um, Hey, listen, stress, this is a story. Yes. This is a story with a happy ending. Sounds like a Mr. Magoo episode.
Gizmo: That is incredible. Wow. Pagoda Traveling is my favorite thing. Like I, I would love to call the Travel Channel or some sort of network shadow him just to get him, shadow him. A television show.
Like the new Bourdain. That's correct. Like, let's send Pagoda out.
Senator: That's correct. What was that like Yellow cab show where they just like interview people in the cab. Cab. Oh, taxi cab
Gizmo: confessions. There we go. We need
Senator: that with pagoda. That's correct. Oh Lord.
Pagoda: I have too many confessions there. Oh man. Well, [00:56:00] God bless.
It was one everything worked out. Yeah. Thank you for the tears Olds WellWell. My
Gizmo: eyes are watering. I'm laughing so hard.
Pagoda: Swell that end. Well, that's hilarious.
Gizmo: At least he always learns from these experiences. He does. Well that's the living, the air tanks are in the living room. They were in the basement.
So now they're in the living room so he can
Rooster: find the house. Correct.
Gizmo: That's what, that's correct. That's what chef said. If he loses the, the Mr. Magoo,
Chef : if he loses the living room, he knows how
Pagoda: to find it All. All my, all, all, all my friends have told me I should have an air tag with me all times. Like in your pocket so we can find you.
Yeah.
Chef : Let my phone connect to it. Correct. That's it. Just swallow one. That's it. Jeez.
Gizmo: Happy ending. Oh, that was great. Wow. So let's talk about another New York cigar story. I was blown away by this lt. Lawrence Taylor of the New York Football Giants is at the game on a Sunday and is put on the jumbotron by the giant staff celebrating that the, the legend LT is in [00:57:00] the building and the dude is, well, hold on.
You gotta,
Senator: you gotta set this up completely.
Gizmo: Okay.
Senator: So it's the Giants Chiefs game Sunday night game. They put LT on the Jumbotron, but they call it the Taylor Cam. Oh, yes. And everyone in the stadium thought that Taylor Swift was in the building. So everyone's getting all excited, at least all the women that were there.
And then they show LT on the screen. Mm-hmm. So everybody's like, I mean the Giants fans are obviously thrilled. The non Giants fans that are in attendance are disappointed and they show him sitting there puffing away on a cigar during the game. Baller in the, in the stadium. In the stadium. Baller move.
Amazing. They allowed him to do it, whatever he was drinking. 'cause Pagoda was actually at my place when we were watching the game. Like he had a neat pour of like some Scotch Bourbon. Scotch Seemed like a scotch. Oh yeah. Bourbon. Yeah. And he's just smoking his cigar, like he's in his own home. It was unbelievable.
And by the way, he hadn't just lit it. I mean it was
Gizmo: definitely the final third. Yeah, he was definitely was ready to rate the thing.
Pagoda: Oh yeah, [00:58:00] that's correct. It must have been my father, the blue label.
Rooster: And did you, did you notice how many Chiefs fans were in the stadium? Half of the stadium was filled with Chiefs fan that that's very, they
Senator: all thought Taylor Swift was gonna be
Rooster: there.
Pagoda: You know, giants could have beat them, but, Hey,
Gizmo: so I go back to the conversation we had a few weeks ago about tobacco kind of being. More Okay. In the mainstream. And the idea that obviously you're not allowed to smoke in a football stadium in the NFL stadium, you're not allowed to vape in an NFL stadium.
I've seen a video, I dunno if it was on YouTube or hard knocks or something like that. I I, it might've been the Cincinnati Bengals have like a team that watches the stadium on video and if you vape and they see it, they'll ban you from the stadium forever. Yeah. So the idea that the giant staff puts him up on the MetLife, you know, jumbotron massive screens, smoking a cigar, that he's clearly been smoking for a while.
I mean, it's like a major pivot in [00:59:00] the acceptance, I guess, of, of tobacco. Yeah. And I love to see it. I mean, I'm going there on August, uh, uh, on October 9th for the Eagles game. I can't, I would love for you to light up a cigar. Find me on the jumbotron. Can I can't your, for this arrest to be out the, the jumbotron?
That's correct. I'm gonna bring a big cigar Oh yeah. For the Eagles game and bring some money too.
Pagoda: No, it's, it's so good to see so many celebrities just smoking cigars and, you know, the image I'd send with Pep Ola, who's probably one of the best soccer managers in the world, and him lighting up one as well.
You know, it just makes you feel we all are doing something right.
Chef : That's true. So I, I've been to a lounge in North Guam, uh, by where we are giz mm-hmm. Uh, off of 23. And he's there regularly sitting at the bar, smoking, really drinking meat spirits. Yeah. Uh, so I, I know for sure he's a, a very seasoned cigar smoker.
He looked like, it sounds
Senator: like we need to have him on the pod.
Gizmo: Uh, correct. He's a [01:00:00] local, yeah. He looked very happy and comfortable to be smoking that cigar. Yes. Mm-hmm.
Senator: I also just love, like, from a sports perspective, a franchise that actually is showing respect and deference to an absolute legend and all time great.
Gizmo: Unlike
Senator: other sports Knicks in New York, I mean, the Knicks, like, literally, they don't recognize Patrick. They won't even allow their legends in their own arena. Half the time, Oakley's not
Gizmo: allowed
Senator: in, and they'll be thrown out. Some of them even just for sitting there watching the game. So to take the complete opposite approach and say like, obviously there's a no smoking policy there, but this guy's the most legendary player to probably put on that uniform.
That's correct. I, I got a world of respect for all the flaws the Giants have right now. Any uniform. They handled that extremely well.
Gizmo: Yeah. Off the charts. Did you see the documentary, the LT documentary? I did not. You did not. Was it good? What is this sign? It was a, it came out years ago.
Senator: Okay.
Gizmo: It's a must watch.
His final statement. You should write it down. You, it's worth writing down.
Senator: It sounds [01:01:00] like Netflix didn't even exist when
Gizmo: this came out. I don't know. Yeah. Is it in black and white? No. No. Bam. Got it from Blockbuster. It's out there. Find it. It's incredible. The final statement on that, it's just off the charts.
Rooster lent the tape, which, which was, do you remember the statement? I think it was something along the lines. Say what you will about Lawrence Taylor. I was one bad motherfucker. Yes, correct. That's a great line. And that motherfucker was right. He
Rooster: was And he was bad.
Gizmo: Correct. Alright boys, let's talk about another news story from Haos.
We always talk about this bull fighting release they do each year in Madrid. This is the seventh edition of it. And what they do is they take existing regular production Hao cigars, they put a couple extra bands on 'em. They put 'em in a nice black lacquer box. They celebrate the bull fighting experience in Spain.
So Haos in Madrid presented the 2025 edition of the Haos Akia, I could say [01:02:00] that, which they dedicated this year to the now retired Bullfighter Lewis Francisco Esla, who is also a cigar smoker. The cigar chosen for this year's new edition is the Mon Cristo Edmundo, which is a cigar we've reviewed on this podcast.
We also have the double edmundo coming up on a future Cuban episode presented in boxes of 10 in the same vein as the six previous editions of this. We talked about this last year and the year before that as well. It's a, it's in a black lacquer box, features a colorful diagram depicting the bullfighter, esp blah, performing the so-called a bullfighting art, in which he was a renowned master and innovator.
So look out for an overpriced box of Monte Cristo Edmundo. Can't wait. Uh, it looks to be around 300 euros for a box of 10. So what is that? About 400. It's not bad. 50 bucks. 400 bucks. 40 bucks. Something like that.
Chef : And, and for those wondering Akia, the direct translation is bull [01:03:00] fighting.
Pagoda: Mm-hmm.
Gizmo: So, so I guess that's the organization that runs the bull fighting in Madrid since it's a, I think it's Haos and them.
Chef : Yeah.
Gizmo: So Chef, thank you for, uh, pronouncing that for me. Pleasure. Saved me a little embarrassment.
Pagoda: I was about to say those lessons aren't working, but
Gizmo: so boys, we are coming into the last third now on my Father Blue in Toro, in our fantastic Reposado tequila pairing. What's everybody thinking? Yeah. Yeah.
It's good. You happy? It's good.
Rooster: Hasn't changed much. It's become a little mellow for me. Yeah, it hasn't, yeah, it hasn't. Yeah. It's actually kind of, I I agree. And it hasn't, it's kind of gone back the other way. You would think it would pick up in strength. Mm-hmm. And it hasn't really picked up in strength.
If it's not, it's exactly, exactly. It's what it, you know, it's kind a little bit one dimensional I would say. I don't
Gizmo: agree with that. I don't, I think flavor's,
Rooster: flavor has changed much for me.
Gizmo: I think the, um, body for me has stayed pretty consistent. The flavor, believe it or not, has gotten richer for me.
That [01:04:00] doesn't mean it's gotten stronger, it's just richer flavor. And the Retro Hale, it is Sweet cream on the retro hale, even at this stage, which is very rare for most cigars. Um, I love this cigar. Love
Senator: it. I love the cigar. Same. I, I, I mean, it's crazy dude, BA's comment about the richness picking up, like for me it's gotten a little bit more savory and richer in the delivery of that flavor.
Um, that's what I was hoping for in the final third. So I, I'm very happy with where this is. I can't believe how smooth and easy this is to
Gizmo: still smoke. I'm shocked, honestly. Yeah. And this is a cigar that I think I got from, uh, the retailer about two weeks ago. Yeah. So it's not like this has had six weeks, eight weeks, a couple months in, in the tower, dry boxing, like mm-hmm.
This has really only had two weeks in that situation. So this is pretty
Senator: That's shocking. Pretty
Gizmo: close to fresh. It's also shocking.
Senator: Yeah. And it's a brand new release, brand new, been sitting on a shelf for a while beforehand.
Gizmo: You have to [01:05:00] pray that my father learns a lesson from this cigar and translate this to all of the other cigars that heaven in their catalog, because most of those cigars are impossible to smoke.
They're hard to smoke. They're edgy.
Chef : Very harsh. Yeah,
Gizmo: they're harsh. Yep. And you have to, they have to sit for years to be smokeable. This is right out of the retailer, like you said. It's a new release. And it's incredible. They, but you know what's funny though is they've had so much success with the other one.
Yeah, they do sell a lot. I know they do. So there's, I know they were named Cigar the Year by Cigar Ionata. I, so, and listen, I know they do, but I know what that means, right? I know that, how we feel about it. But at the end of the day, that is a big trophy on their
Senator: mantle. They do. But here's the, the thing I'll say, I don't know any very, very discerning smoker, like most of us that regularly smokes my father.
Gizmo: I agree.
Senator: And I think why it has appealed to most smokers is they're very flavorful, they're bold, fairly like [01:06:00] affordable. They're affordable. You know, the artwork typically does look nice. It looks like a fancier cigar or band. The, it, it's just like they've missed the last component, which is like, we want all the flavor they're delivering, but it just needs to be delivered in a smooth right, enjoyable way.
And they're rushing the production of this where like if they just let those cigars age for another year or two. They would be so much exponentially better. So I think that's why they've done so well. Like most of the ingredients for a great cigar and a great brand. Are there, it's just like the finishing touches are the missing piece, correct.
Which this thankfully has. Oh yeah. Pagoda. What do you think of the cigar right now?
Pagoda: Yeah. No, so for me, I, I think, um, you know, the, towards the last set has become a little mellow for me as I'm not getting the same rich flavor you are. Um, but I'm really enjoying it. It's got nothing to do with whether or not I'm enjoying it.
But, you know, I think you mentioned that it might be reasonably, I think [01:07:00] once it, we got the flavor after we had let, uh, the cigar cool down a bit and we were pacing ourselves a bit more, I think that flavor has been reasonably consistent, but it's, uh, it's been good. Um, you know, I tried to retro hill it a couple of times.
I did get a little bit of. You know, a biscuity flavor, which is like, um, yeah. And it, it's, it's really good. There's no complaints.
Chef : My favorite is a retro hill right after a sip. Uh, I agree.
Gizmo: The tequila's a great pairing for this. Bam. I, I'm sorry, but it's getting better. I think that's actually, I, I, I think it's gotten much better, you know?
Um, this has opened up dramatically from when I first Is it your palate changing or is it, I think it's both the air, I think it's my palate adjusting. I think this thing airing out a little bit. I think it, it is. So there's, uh, the one thing, I, there's a sequence of buttery and saltiness that I am getting from the tequila that for me translates mm-hmm.
To the cigar and that I enjoy a lot, which is often very rare to get something like that. Right. You know, we didn't talk about [01:08:00] this. How much is the tequila? I was just gonna ask the same question. Well, that's because we're on the same page center of course. Correct. I've seen at least today. Okay. It's very rare.
This is nice. I got a date night next with senator in the city.
Chef : So I've seen this anywhere from one 16 to about 1 35 a box. Wow. What? That's expensive. That's expensive. Whoa. Is it a
Gizmo: short run? Like it is, is it the barrels?
Chef : It's, it's the, it's the barreling process. It's the fact that it's a reposado that goes a little bit longer than most, which is why the color's richer, the body's richer.
Mm-hmm. And why you guys think it, it leans more towards an anejo. It's, um, the finish is so long. Yeah.
Senator: That breaks my heart. The price is too high. Yeah. Because the ratings I'm, I've been toying with in my head, this could have scored a really, really, really high score, but that I have, I'm gonna have to factor in.
Chef : I will say this about the parts t the mark, they've [01:09:00] been really underrated for a long time and they've been making, uh, additive free tequilas since forever. Um, but they haven't really. Gotten the hype that some other brands have been able to, to gather. And I think maybe this is kind of their experiment of like, you know, maybe we need something that's a little bit pricier, something that's, you know, kind of demands that respect.
And I think this is that release for them. Uh, they do have a, a very, very highend, extra Anejo, uh, that How much is that? It's, it's closer to 300. Oh my God.
Senator: But hang on, I'm, I'm more curious about the standard production stuff they have. So do they have a regular repo?
Chef : They do, they do. They have a Blanco repo and Anejo, and those are anywhere from 50 to about 80 bucks.
Wow. Okay. So that's reasonable. Yeah, very. Yeah. I just don't know if the more like 46 to 80 bucks. Yeah. I mean
Gizmo: that's a pretty heavy price delta for Sherry Cask finish. Yes. [01:10:00] Right. I mean,
Senator: I mean, it is, and it isn't though. I mean, think about this. Scotch distilleries are having a hard time sourcing and keeping Sherry Cass.
Mm-hmm. Imagine what it must be like to be a small tequila producer to get your hands on a sherry cast to finish your tequila in. That's right. But they called the dalmore and got it with minimal at what premium is my point. That's what's minimal spending power. Imagine what they had to spend for that.
That's right.
Chef : Not just that, but the maturation, the amount of years it takes to get to a mature agave that you could harvest to turn into tequila. Right. So you're looking anywhere from very low and five years high end, 10 years, you know? So just to get to a Blanco spirit, you're there, and then you have to go through the aging process.
There's two interesting
Gizmo: things about this for me that actually adds value is it does have a very long finish. Mm-hmm. So you don't need to, I one sip and I can take two or three draws of my cigar and go back to it. So it does last me a long time, but the sweetness is [01:11:00] coming through big time for me now.
Now that it's sat for a while. It is actually very sweet forward and a very subtle, nice Yeah. Balanced way, not overly Exactly. It's very balanced to me. It's like a nice, thin, delicious scotch. Okay. And, and it's, I wouldn't call it thin. Yeah, no. I mean thin. I mean thin. Definitely not thin. It's not terribly viscous for me.
It's not, it's not like a heavy. Scotch. I mean, it's a pretty thin spirit. I think it's pretty close to a tequila.
Chef : Yeah. No, I think what I liked about this tequila more than some others that I've had is that it is rather rich and viscous. It's got some legs, but by the way,
Gizmo: everybody in the room has their glass in the
Chef : air.
Yeah. We're trying to catch those
Gizmo: legs, man. Trying to see if I was right or wrong.
Senator: I think we've concluded your wrong guess.
Gizmo: Agree. What else is new? But you know, we're not on the same page anymore.
Pagoda: But,
Ricky: but
Pagoda: on, on the other hand, we all are drinking very slow. We are. Well, you know what,
Ricky: it looks like you took one sip outta your glass.
Yeah, no, you, you are drinking very slow. This is
Senator: where GIZ and I are actually back on the same page. We're not drinking slow.
Ricky: I I need a refill. You and chef [01:12:00] I'll, I'm already already buzzing.
Senator: Can you, can you finish your glass for you? Pagoda? Can you pass the bottle around? I mean, one, some of us need to top off, but I actually just wanna see what the bottle even looks like.
Well, we can pass pagoda
Chef : glass around if you want. I'll say it is a very beautiful bottle and it's very elegant. It is. Now here's a question. Did you grab that off the shelf at the restaurant? No, no, no. I had that order
Gizmo: just from Oh, that would've been boss. Yeah.
Chef : We don't even stock this. That
Senator: Ben's disappointed.
We, we a little
Chef : swag tonight on the pot. We don't stock this at the restaurant yet, but we will after this. Um, I, I had one bottle ordered just for the pot. It looks like a bullet dry bottle. Kind of sort, but much nicer thing
Gizmo: has, but no, this thing has serious weight. It does it's heavy. Chef. Do you think that this is a good gateway tequila for the scotch drinker because of the Sherry Cas finish?
A
Chef : thousand percent Or the price? Is it a good
Gizmo: gateway price? The price? Well, the price I think is a little difficult for a scotch drinker who's used to a 12 year
Pagoda: Yeah.
Gizmo: Coming in, what, between 65 and 90? Correct. At 120, this is a lot. Or even [01:13:00] 130. If he's saying it's a lot on the top end of that, I mean, that's a lot of money.
But if you put prices aside, I think if you had this at your bar. You had a scotch drinker come over your house and you said, you know, they wanted to try some agave. I think this is a nice gateway. Yeah. Yeah. I noted earlier, drank like a, finished like a scotch, and I think that's a great way of putting it.
Chef : The anejo is even smoother, sweeter, a little bit more viscous. And then they have a cino, which, you know, even though parts is additive free, I'm just really against Tinos. What is a cristino?
Senator: Is that because, uh, Don Julio does that?
Chef : No. Well, they all do it, um, because a christino, what it does is it, they, they blend a reone and Anejo, but then they charcoal filter it.
Ah, so you get the So it's clear instead? Yeah, it's clear and you get most of, or some of the flavor, but you don't get a lot of it because you strip color and flavor from the spirit. What is the purpose of doing that? Make it look beautiful. Yeah.
Ricky: I, I guess, yeah. Paper goda. Can I have a refill, [01:14:00] please?
Senator: It's nice.
We have two tequila experts here.
Ricky: No, I'm gonna have some of pagodas.
Pagoda: Hey, I'm pacing myself, right? All right. All right. I'm olderly, like, I'm definitely like feeling it pagodas. Like I lost enough shit this week. I, I can't imagine it's 40, 80 and it's like, wow.
Senator: In Pagodas defense, I do think he got the heaviest four.
Pagoda: You're welcome. Hey, thank you bra, CIA, amigo.
Gizmo: All right boys, let's go to some listener email now. This one is from Lizard AD and he says, rating system
Chef : Uhoh. He
Gizmo: says, Hey, gizmo and gang, kudos on the pod. You've reignited my interest in the hobby. I'm an FOG, which I think means fing. Old guy. Mm-hmm. Who started back in the mid nineties. Over the years I've been through all the genres and crazy.
He's a
Ricky: youngster though, rooster, right?
Gizmo: Rusa. Did you send that [01:15:00] email? I'm FOJ.
Over the years I've been through all the genres and razzes, but a few years ago I became a bit disenchanted, especially with Haos, which were my favorites due to construction and price issues. You guys and Fabrica five have completely shifted my outlook. Hmm. I also really enjoy your ratings format.
Pagoda. Tune in. Mm-hmm. I like that you stick to whole numbers. There you go. Too many reviewers get caught up in the minutiae of whether something is an 88 and 89 or a 93, and you never see ratings like 63, 68, 76. Everything below 85 just feels abandoned. Your simpler system got me reflecting on my own, and I've since adopted this approach.
Mm-hmm. And he lays it out for me. He says one would be a can't smoke, a two would be a couldn't finish or lost interest. A three would be a one and done. A four would be won't smoke [01:16:00] often. Five would be happy to smoke on a semi-regular basis. Six would be will smoke regularly and seven would be perfect.
So he's okay. The seven is the top rating for him. He's on a seven point scale, he's on a seven point scale. But what I, what, what I like about this is for an individual who's doing their own ratings
Pagoda: mm-hmm.
Gizmo: This to me seems like a really awesome, clean way to kind of determine if you're journaling or you have a spreadsheet or something of the cigars you're smoking or even the drink.
I think Ismo iss petitioning for a change here. No, no, no. I, I like our system with multiple guys, but I think what he's developed for himself here is a simple, very clear system that he can reference what he liked and didn't like over the years and, and how it performed in a pretty streamlined way. Wow. I like it.
Yeah. He says, for example, I just finished a bond Roberts 1 0 9 and it scored a perfect seven for me. Keep rocking fellas. And don't forget to retro hale for the full experience.
Chef : Oh boy. I like this guy. That's an indictment. A [01:17:00] yi yi
Gizmo: best lizard ad. So what do you guys think of that? Like if you were to not be on this podcast, let's say Senator doesn't like it.
I know that,
Senator: I mean, he is only got a seven point scale and he's talking about the retro, come on, go to 10 and he's talking about the retro go. Correct. Go to 10. You want the full rating experience, go to 10.
Pagoda: Yeah, I
Gizmo: like
Pagoda: our
Gizmo: system.
Pagoda: Have you heard Klaus's episodes? I dunno. I wasn't there for it though.
Senator: Klaus Kelner, whose father is hanky Kelner.
Yeah. One of the greatest blenders of all time does not Retro Hill. He categorically does not Retro Hill.
Gizmo: Listen, just because you're flavor
Senator: cannot be delivered on your palate with full pallet coverage, the cigar is not doing its job. His words, this is true. He's like, he's a master blender.
Gizmo: So this is all true.
He's a master. Both of the cigars on this podcast have scored to 10. Look, we have a lot of, and, and he could be wrong. It's okay. We have a lot of fun with this, but at the end of the day, the, the cigar, each person experiences a scar differently. And the palette is way, is the way, the [01:18:00] traditional way to experience a scar.
But if you can retro, you do that. And if you can't, you don't. And if you don't want to, you don't. And if
Senator: you need to, you do. Like my point has always been like any of these things we're doing are to find context clues as far as like the flavor notes we're getting. So if you get it all on your palette and you can discern all the notes, you don't need to necessarily retro.
If you retro hale and you're picking up things that you didn't before, great. Keep doing it. That's what's helping you find those notes. So like, it's anything that it takes, you know, we smell the burn line when we're smoking, like there's all, it's a full sensory experience. Mm-hmm. It's like all the ways in which you need to experience a cigar to get the completeness of the flavor it's trying to deliver.
You ought to do. Sure. I don't, I don't think no one should. I don't think if you can, you know, retro hale and you don't, you shouldn't. That's, I've never said that. Correct. I'm just saying that not everyone needs to do it to get that complete experience. That's only been my contention. Correct.
Gizmo: I don't disagree with that.
I'm not gonna criticize someone 'cause they don't retro. But for me [01:19:00] personally, it creates that whole sensory experience and it's fully enveloped. Right. It's important to me. Yeah. It's important to me. But it may, you know, it may not be important to someone else. It's fine. Yeah. And I would, I would think that most smokers are not retro hailing.
I agree. I I would bet a significant percentage. I would think 80 of smoke percent of smokers aren't retro hailing.
Pagoda: I agree with you. I think a lot of the cigarette smokers who've converted to cigars are definitely retro hale. I
Senator: honestly think it's higher than you think I would. I bet 95%, 90, 90% are or not,
Gizmo: are not, not 90.
No, I think 70 other way around. 65%
Senator: aren't, I would literally say it is minimum 60 40. That at least 40% are, I mean, pagodas point, you have to understand so many people that smoke cigars at some point in their lives smoke cigarettes. That's a fair point. Right. It, it's like second nature for them. They're doing it when they're not even trying.
It just happens. 'cause that's what they're used to actually like bringing the smoke down. So I think it happens a whole lot. A whole lot. I [01:20:00] just look, when you're in a cigar lounge, the number of times you see smoke coming outta someone's nostrils. It's, it's a lot.
Gizmo: Yeah.
Senator: We should do a listener poll.
Gizmo: That's a good idea.
How are we gonna do that? On our Instagram. On Instagram, correct. Oh, shit. I didn't think about that. That's a good idea. Yeah. We should start doing polls. Fucking hate Instagram. Okay,
Ricky: we're gonna take a vote to see if you finish that glass at the gate. Have, have, have, have the, have the, I
Rooster: don't even, I don't even drink an hour to finish it. He literally took a sip. I agreed with
Pagoda: you. Hey, I'm, hey, savoring all
now. I'm enjoying all, all.
Gizmo: Alright boys, it's time now to go to our Lizard of the Week.
As we always say, anybody out there can win Lizard of the Week. All you have to do is send us an email, comment somewhere. Instagram, YouTube, Spotify, Instagram, whatever you choose. And of course we love a voice memo. And we have a voice memo coming up next week. I've saved, we love [01:21:00] voice memos, so please do stay in touch with us.
Tell us what you smoke and tell us what you're thinking and you can win some stuff from us. And this one is from Lizard Doc and he writes Lizard. Lizard Gizmo and Crew. Is it
Pagoda: Doc or Doc?
Gizmo: Doc.
Pagoda: Alright. Alright. Just wanted to confirm
Gizmo: Lizard, gizmo and Crew. I have a newbie question, but first I have to begin by saying a huge thank you.
To you and the other lizards. I'm so very appreciative of the podcast. I'm relatively new to cigars and the pod has been very educational. However, beyond the education, you and the guys have been my go-to cigar gurus and buddies for the past few years. A little background, several years ago, I moved about three hours from home for medical training local friends who aren't into cigars and there aren't many nearby lounges.
I smoke about one cigar per week, usually after the kids have gone to bed. When I listen to the podcast and enjoy a cigar, I truly feel a sense of connection to the [01:22:00] group. To be clear, it's not like I was weeping in loneliness before, but I did feel a little isolated when I was smoking. There was no rhythm in the process.
Now, each week, I smoke a cigar and check in with the lizards. You guys have really captured something special. I continue to be amazed that you post a new episode each week. That is a testament to not only your dedication, but the com, but the comradery within the group, which keeps a solid quorum of lizards returning week after week.
I know some weeks it's not easy taking time out of your busy lives to do this. You guys don't have to do this. So speaking for all the listening lizards, we appreciate you. That's a great comment. That's awesome. Like you wrote this. I didn't believe me. Uh, so he says, okay, we can't, we can't put it past.
Well, really, I have never, I think some of that artwork you've created, I have never no doubt about it. I have never created an email or bam ba you made that bam bam ba Yep. No lizard Max did I love that piece, by the way. I know [01:23:00] you do. I printed it. Okay. Onto the question. I'm gonna frame it. You printed it?
Oh,
Senator: I'm
Gizmo: not convinced. I mean, I'm kind of feeling like you printed it the way you said that. That was, that was really cool though.
Senator: He's got that, the cigar up on his bedroom wall. Correct. It's on a, on a 3D printer.
Gizmo: My dolly.
What do you doing? Okay, onto the question. This probably isn't worthy of the podcast, but wasn't sure who to ask. I disagree with him on that. Obviously,
Pagoda: we
Gizmo: are all aware of the potential for fraudulent Cuban cigars. Is there any reason to be concerned with new World cigars being fraudulent? For example, I came across a box of Arturo Fuente, Don Carlos, I of the shark, listed on a random website.
I know the lizards a big fan of the smoke, so I figured I would check it out. Oh, oh. Now I understand that this is a well sought after cigar, so I'm a bit skeptical that it is simply available online. [01:24:00] I appreciate that the uniqueness of the cigar shape would make it difficult to counterfeit, but the fact that it's randomly available makes me suspicious.
It's listed for what seems to be an appropriate price about $30 per stick. What do you guys think more broadly? Have you heard of counterfeit new world cigars?
Pagoda: Why didn't you send the box over here? It will determine whether correct, whether they're real or not.
Gizmo: He says, anyway, this message is really about me saying thank you more than the question.
Appreciate your advice and please keep up the amazing work. Sincerely lizard doc. Good question. Great question and a great email. Yes, very kind. Very nice word. So thank you so much. Lizard Duck. And of course there are counterfeit New World cigars out there,
Rooster: especially Fuentes Opus. Opus Opus is a big one.
And then, and then I'm sure DDoS, you know, if you're a counterfeiter, you're gonna go after the high price cigars. You're not gonna counterfeit at $12 cigars. No. So you're gonna go after the 40 50. You're not, you're not gonna counterfeit of Philly
Gizmo: Blunt.
Rooster: Yeah, [01:25:00] correct.
Gizmo: So it, you know, it could be, it could be counterfeit.
But I've also seen, recently, I've seen some Fuente dealers, legitimate dealers selling products at the MSRP price, which I know we're not used to at this point with Opus. And even the Shark a couple years ago was really hard to find at, at a reasonable price. But I've seen some pretty reasonably priced sharks.
I mean, lizard J from the Lounge was in a retail shop in Atlanta. And he was sending us MSRP prices on, on mm-hmm. Opus stuff mm-hmm. That, that he was finding in, in a legit shop down there. So it's happening, but it's really the question of what's the origin of the cigars? Where are they coming from, you know, and, and how do you determine that and how do you determine it?
Senator: Yeah. I think Rooster's point is the most important one. That the price is really what dictates when you need to start being cognizant of that and worried. Correct. I mean, the, any cigar under $25, I wouldn't think twice [01:26:00] about being counterfeited as a new world cigar. It's not worth it for all the effort that that person has to go through.
If they're not gonna, they're not gonna, it's not a volume play. Right. They can't sell that into a ton of retailers, anything like that. Mm-hmm. They have to individually find a channel to sell that cigar. So I think any of just the exclusive higher price stuff, particularly the, in the Fuente line that shark qualifies opus sharks, you know, things that are rare and harder to procure.
Those are the, the times I'd be worried. And it's interesting that he mentioned sharks because I don't remember who said this, but someone traveling through the Caribbean found like an oddly priced box of sharks that even looked funny among our group. I think it was in our club. And I, I, I wouldn't be surprised if they're counterfeit.
Gizmo: Yeah. That would, that would seem like a hard cigar to me to counterfeit that one. I mean, the box pressed like fair tapered, torpedo. That's very hard to, I mean, how do you even create a [01:27:00] mold? Yeah. As a counterfeiter, how do you create a mold that works to create that unique shape, go to your local prison.
I'm sorry, very off color Joe. Sorry, I don't even know what to say.
Pagoda: There's no forgiveness out here, buddy.
Gizmo: But it also, like when you think about Padron, like the 60th, it actually is really intelligent that George Padron went out, got that 3D printing machine, made a custom unique mold or you know, keep kept iterating until he found a shape he liked.
That seems like an impossible cigar to accurately counterfeit in some meaningful way. Mm-hmm. Well, between the shape of it, the size of it, and of course the bands as well. And the box. And the box, the coffins. Yeah.
Senator: Well that, and also just Padron answers this question. Padron produces a unique serial number on every single cigar.
That's correct. Because they're worried about counterfeiting. Right. They wouldn't be worried about [01:28:00] it if it was not happening in the new world space and they've been doing this for a long time. That's a great point. So clearly this has been going on in the new world space for them to invest. I mean, think of what it costs just to have that printed.
A unique one for
Ricky: every,
Gizmo: for every cigar. I mean even, yeah, I mean, down to the 64, I don't think the. The thousand series, the Paone series doesn't have the serial. No, they don't. No. It starts at the 64 series. Correct. But you're talking about some of those cigars are close to 10 bucks. Yeah. You know, so it's not like it's a high dollar, you know, marker or brand like we're talking about with Opus.
Correct. You know, so it's an interesting question here from Lizard Doc. We appreciate everybody writing in Of course. And, uh, congratulations to him on Winning Lizard of the Week. So boys, we are coming now to the end of our evening with the My Father Blue and Toro and the Partita, Roble Fino, the Sherry Oak Finish, tequila Reposado.
What's everybody thinking of the pairing at this point? It's very good now. [01:29:00] I think it's delicious. I love this how sweet this has gotten for me, but it's very balanced and I'm down to just under a half inch and it's still extremely smokeable, still very good. It hasn't changed a lot, which is a merit.
It's very easy to smoke even at this point, which is impossible to say about almost every other, my father cigar I've ever had. Mm-hmm. I had a little bit of bitterness or, yeah, it, it, there was a, a flavor issue probably. I have about an inch of the cigar left. I've put it down, but I'm not gonna judge the cigar.
At that point, because well into the last third, it was giving me great flavor. And I think most folks, by the time I put that cigar down, would've well quit even if they were loving it. So I had a couple bad, bad polls on it, but, but I'm not gonna judge it based on that. It's a young cigar. It's, you know, only been in my, uh, my situation for two weeks.
So we'll see. Uh, why, what do you think it was just tar built up? Might have been tar. Maybe I was pulling it too hard in the [01:30:00] last third. I, I'm not sure. So senator's got about an inch and a quarter an inch for chef and maybe a almost two inches for rooster and two for pagoda. What are you guys getting?
Senator: I think for me, the thing I like about the last third, it, it, it does have a little bit more body for me.
Like the, the final third, not the start of it, but definitely when you get well into it is where I would actually smoke this possibly any time of day. Mm-hmm. Like when I started smoking this in the first third, I'm like, there's no way I'll like this at night. I would definitely, 'cause the way this ends, yeah, it has enough, it's great like body to it that it can definitely hold up.
Um, you do lose. In the final inch, some of the complexity, you know, that was present there early. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And that's most cigars, so I'm not, you know, gonna, I can't judge it on that. Totally. Yeah. And I think, you know, because I've been enjoying the cigar, and when you get down this far, it's like, you know, every draw, it heats up the cigar a lot.
That's true. My cigars, you know, a little [01:31:00] hotter than I, it should be. And I know that's, I'm getting a little bit of kind of what gizmo described of like a little bitterness, a little youth, but if I was more patient, I might not be getting that. I've just at this point said like, I love the cigar, so I'm just drawing it a lot.
But all the way through this has been a complete shock and surprise. Um, it's checked so many boxes and, and the thing I give them the most credit for it, it occupies a unique slot that most cigars can't. I totally agree with that, and that's the
Gizmo: coolest part of the smoke for me. Mm-hmm. I agree. Yeah. Any thoughts on the, uh, tequila pairing before we move?
I love that. Yeah. I think it's gotten better and better. It's improved for me as the night went on. Pagoda, how about you? I'm loving
Pagoda: it.
Gizmo: So
Pagoda: like on, on the cigar, what I'm getting is, what's that? Are you loving it? He still has the same amount in his glass, by the way. That's correct. On, on the cigar. What I'm getting is,
alright. [01:32:00] Pagoda wants
ice so bad over an nap.
I'm sorry.
Pagoda: I'll, I'm buzzing.
Ricky: You've taken three sips. I'm buzzing,
Pagoda: man. Oh my God. I know. Tequila is a fuck.
You know, this was supposed to be, it was supposed to be the summer of tequila for me.
Gizmo: I was gonna say, I I feel like you should be accustomed to it by now. No, I we're not. We're in October men.
Pagoda: But I, you know, I, I'll tell you, rums become a go-to for me, but tequila fucks me up. Oh, man.
Gizmo: Alright boys. It's time to move into the formal ing tonight on the Partita.
Rob Leino. Sherry Oak finish tequila reposado, bam, bam, you're up. So I'm gonna rate this for what this is tonight. I'm not gonna compare it to any other tequila that I've [01:33:00] had. Um, I'm gonna try to do that and continue to do that. I think this is, for me, it turned out to be a nine. It's expensive, but it kept, it captures your attention from the very first sip because it does have a lot of body to it.
And it eventually mellows out, becomes very balanced in a sweet, almost savory. There's a little butter this to there, to this, uh, tequila. Honestly, it's very unique in that way. Uh, I'm at a. All right, chef.
Chef : I'm also at a nine. I would be at a 10 if the price point was slightly correct. Lower, yep. Um, I think this tequila delivered a lot in body flavor, roundness balance.
Uh, it held up well with this cigar. It will hold up with so many others, uh, whether Cuban or even New World because of the super long finish and the scotch influence here. Yeah, I'm not sure if I'd do a Cuban, I don't know if I, I don't
Gizmo: know if I would go Cuban on this. Only maybe two or three of them.
Yeah. Yeah. Two or three. Maybe a bolivar. A [01:34:00] D four. No, a Ramona alone special. Especially Chef. I'm with you. Don't be deterred. No, I think a D with four with Cuban. This would go every, any
Chef : Cuban. Which I didn't. No, not any. He didn't say that. No. I think a D four would go. He said many Cuban. Yeah. D four. The Mado number three.
The Mado number one, the Maduro. There's up and cigars. There's many. Sure. I I mean there's a few that, you know, I, I'm not, my, my, I'm not delivery on this.
Senator: Tequila is smooth. This is not an aggressive punch. You in the face. Tequila.
Chef : Yeah. I dunno. I think early on people got intimidated by giz this poor, uh, and it, it took some time up.
What did I do? Yeah. Look at pagoda. I mean, he's barely gonna
Senator: make it through the episode. He hasn't had any of it.
Gizmo: That's correct. It's fucking turpentine for him.
Senator: No,
Gizmo: I've,
Senator: I've had
Gizmo: quite a bit,
Senator: but, uh, I'm telling you, he got a heavy pour. You're welcome. You
Chef : know, rest, I thought the spirit delivered. Well, and, and it, and it.
It holds up amazingly well with a cigar. With this cigar, especially, I love the retro Hale after taking a sip. [01:35:00] Um, it really brings out the baking spice, the biscuit notes, some of the cocoa, some vanilla, the nose on the spirit itself, a lot of candied citrus that I really enjoyed. Um, and it's a touch smokey on the nose, which I like.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, so yeah, for me this was a, a, a very solid nine. I really enjoyed this tequila and you know, when I had it a couple months ago, I knew this would do well with you guys. Uh, and it's drinking equally fantastic tonight.
Pagoda: Alright. Pagoda? Yeah, it's a nine for me. And I, I think, uh, mostly on flavor.
I'm loving the flavor. Like it's, for me, I like even on the nose, like it wasn't very like agave forward or tequila forward. Yeah. Yeah. It was sweeter even on the nose. And when. I took the first step and you know, it's, um, been very, very good. Like, it's been sweet. And then you let it trickle down on the sides.
And that, it's like, for me, that's when I find out it's really a tequila. Mm-hmm. Like, um, it reminds me of, uh, the ocho you [01:36:00] know, the flavor is excellent. Like, and I think I, in tequilas, I think I really enjoy the flavor profile. Uh, but this particular tequila is just getting me a little zoo. It is getting me a little happy.
Uh, um, so, uh, while, um, the price is very expensive, all I need is one glass, and I'd be very happy
Chef : with that. Well, as long as gizmo's pouring. Yeah, I was gonna say, especially the glass you got tonight. I mean, that bottle made it around twice. Yeah. And on the second time, there wasn't much to pour. So GIZ was definitely, do you know why I
Gizmo: tried to do that?
So we didn't have to stop and do a second pour? GIZ doesn't have a
Senator: steady hand. The pores were uneven. I'm knock our son. I'm sorry,
Pagoda: but listen, you're forgiven. Not complaining at all. Very, very flavorful. And, uh, you know, um, it's a nine,
Gizmo: so for me it's also a nine. I, I really enjoyed this tequila. I think the only thing that took it down, I think the price point on the Reposado, I understand it's going through a crazy process.
The time on the agave, I get all that. Mm-hmm. [01:37:00] But I still think 120, $130 is a little too steep. It is for a reposado. It's, uh, I, it drank maybe a little. Like, like it had a little more age than a Reposado, but at the end of the day, it's a reposado at 120, $130. I think that's a little price. Would you buy this bottle?
I would. So would I Occasionally, but I would drink it very infrequently. Yeah. I would buy it as well. The, the application. And that's where I was going. I think the application of when I would pull this out. Mm-hmm. I, I, I'm not sure where it would sit, you know, Senator was saying earlier, and we'll get to our cigar rating, but how unique this cigar that we had tonight can kind of slot in wherever I'm having the opposite problem with this tequila.
I'm not sure where I would put this. Mm. Because if I want a tequila, I'm gonna go for a great tequila. If I want a scotch, I'm gonna go for a great scotch. Like this kind of in-between thing that this tequila lives in is solved for by the other things we have in our cabinet. Mm-hmm. So I'm not sure of the application of [01:38:00] this, except for if I'm in a situation where I want an agave spirit that has some sort of, you know, scotch or whiskey type influence on it.
Great. Or if I'm with someone who says, you know, I'm, I'm not very experienced with tequila. Let me try something that you think I would like as a whiskey drinker. Yeah. Yeah. That's this. But I, I don't know where, for me mm-hmm. As a, as a consumer of spirits where I would put this, and unfortunately. All that being said, I mean, this paired great for me with the cigar tonight.
I do think this would pair well with most cigars. I disagree on the Cuban thing. I probably wouldn't bring this in on most Cubans. I'd stick to something closer to rum or, or, or something lighter. Sure. I don't think that I would do this with most Cubans, but why? Because I don't think that the flavor profile of that this is offering is in line with what I like to pair with most Cuban cigars,
Senator: like
Gizmo: I'm reaching for five.
You said that you would, for a
Senator: whiskey drinker, it drinks more, more
Gizmo: like a whiskey. But I'm not [01:39:00] pulling whiskey out most of the time than I'm, than I'm smoking Cuban CI cigars. Neither
Senator: am
Gizmo: I. I'm, I mean, never having a, a
Senator: whiskey with the Cuban, before we discovered rum in the way that we have, that's all we drank.
We were drinking plenty of scotch with Cuban cigars. Sure. But my palate has changed. Wouldn't pour my preferences have changed. E even now, you wouldn't pour out a Balvin E 12
Gizmo: with a Cuban cigar? I would, because it's a, it's an old friend, but I wouldn't in this, you know, for the sake of like the perfect pairing or whatever.
I don't think that scotch is the perfect pairing for a cigar. I don't think I would, I don't have that habit of opening a scotch any longer. I think it's just changed for me. So, yeah. No, it's weird. It's saying personal preference.
Senator: Obviously I drink the same, uh, tons of rum. Yeah, yeah, tons.
Gizmo: Yeah,
Senator: yeah, yeah.
You rarely see me with a scotch these days. That's true. That's true. But I'm just saying that doesn't mean that I wouldn't, you know, if I didn't have rum on me, like I wouldn't happily have like certain single malt scotches with a Cuban. Oh. If we had no choice. Sure. But,
Gizmo: but I'm also reaching the Glen Morgie, the original that we had recently that went that paired.
Well, yeah, yeah. The Glen Fiig 12, a little bit lighter. [01:40:00] Yep. With the Cuban more affordable and much more affordable, so, sure. I, I put put price aside though, and we're talking about the actual spirit itself, but, but he's talking
Senator: about it pairing not, not just the price. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I'm, I I'm more with you on the price being the obstacle here.
Yeah. Mm-hmm. He's saying the flavor, the flavor.
Chef : I hear everything you're saying is, and I think right now, this, this spirit is leaning sweeter. It even feels like a rum at times because of the way it's delivering its flavor. And that's, I said earlier, I don't know if I agree with you on that. I, I, I think especially this doesn't drink
Gizmo: like a rum tone earlier.
You don't think this in incre. The, the sweetness has balanced, balanced out. Come on. I don't think this drinks like a rum. I'm not talking about sweetness. This not, it doesn't drink like a rum. This does not drink like a rum. I never said that it drinks closer to a scotch.
Chef : I, no, I, I disagree. I think to, in the beginning it did.
Prior to, prior to opening up. The scotch finish was really present. Now this is finishing a lot sweeter than it started. It is, I said that earlier. I agree. And, and I think you're getting some of those molasses notes. You're getting some butter scotch, you're getting a [01:41:00] honey, some honey, some cinnamon.
You're getting some of these familiar notes that you find in the rooms we love. So I do think that it's, it slightly difference up.
Gizmo: I do understand where you're coming from. There is a slight difference. A hundred percent not my point is seeing it, but I'm saying there's, I, my point is there's some parallels there is what I'm saying.
I'd rather substitute a scotch with this than a rum. We, that's my point. We have one more rating by the way. I, I haven't even rated yet. So I You did, lemme finish it up. You're a nine, so I love that the tequila was smooth. It was easy to drink. It was so flavorful. Hugely long finish as you said. Yes. That I loved.
Correct. What are you laughing about? The fact that you think you did rate it yet? I said it was a nine, but I'm not done.
All right.
Gizmo: Uh, the price is a problem. But you mentioned chef that there was a normal line of Blanco. Yes. Repo anejo. That was reasonably price. So yes. I'm not crazy, you know, focused on the price of the spirit.
Obviously there is a reason that they've priced it where they have, uh, so it's not perfect. It wasn't perfect, but [01:42:00] damn it was good. Yeah. So Amin and nine. Yeah. Great reading. All right, Senator.
Senator: The commentary up until Gizmo was so good.
What are
Senator: we doing?
Gizmo: Uh, he did okay
Senator: for what it's trying to do. It's perfect. The only reason it's not gonna get a 10 is the price. That's why I'm giving it a nine. All right. I think a
Rooster: listener is probably very confused right now. I know whether this was a
Gizmo: tequila, a scotch, or a rum, correct?
Yes. And I love, by the way, we've all given it a nine and we we're still arguing. I know. I think we need, as usual,
Ricky: it's hilarious as I think we need a poll. We need a poll. Another poll. We just took a poll.
Pagoda: And
Ricky: then
Pagoda: tequila rub. A
Senator: whiskey.
I, I will attempt to bring some clarity to this. What is this closer to? This is definitely sweeter than it is dry. There is no question a hundred percent true that that is the case. I never said that It was, it was, it was. I'm I'm not saying you did, I'm just trying to put some [01:43:00] parameters around what the experience is when a listener drinks this.
Mm-hmm. It is definitely sweeter than it is dry. Where for a lot of scotches, some of them are sweet, more sweet than they are dry. Some of them are more dry than they are sweet. It's a total mixed bag there. In rums, they're only sweeter. Mm-hmm. Period. You're not gonna get a dry rum. That's not possible. Um, so in that regard, it is similar to either sweeter scotches or many rums.
I think. What I like most about this is how different and unique it is from really any tequila I've had that would call itself a repo
Gizmo: correct.
Senator: Blind. Like I said, right from the first few sips, I would've immediately thought this is an anejo. It drinks more whiskey and rum. Like a, a darker spirit, not a lighter spirit.
Chef : Yes.
Senator: Um, the flavor I get like lots of caramel. It's, it's got some viscosity [01:44:00] and like a buttery creamy quality about it. Mm-hmm. That's there present with the sweet notes. So I love all of that about it. I think it's super differentiated and that's what stands out to me and why I will always remember this bottle.
Um, the price point is high. That's the only reason. It's not something that I would reach for regularly If this were, you know, 60 bucks a bottle, I would drink this often. It's awesome because for me, where there's a versatility, I was about
Gizmo: to add where's the versatility in this?
Senator: Yeah. I, I think there's a ton of versatility in this.
Like it drinks more like a scotch or a rum than it does a tequila. Yeah. And I drink more rum. Even, I can't say now scotch, but historically more scotch than I have tequila. And so like for me, the fact that it is closer to the things I consume more often, mm-hmm. It has way more versatility than most tequilas that I will pull for in certain occasions, in circumstances where scotch and rum, like [01:45:00] anytime with a cigar, like that's just a go-to pairing.
So I think there's tremendous value in what it's trying to deliver and what it does. Um, for me, it, it has a celebratory
Gizmo: quality to it. Sure. The price point, the presentation, the heavy bottle, it's beautiful. But even the, even what you're getting from the point of view of the palette, I would love to have this during the holidays.
Chef : So I was gonna say this, I think this is the perfect gateway tequila. Yeah, yeah. Because it, which I said earlier, did, you can attract to multiple pallets. You know, people that enjoy scotches, rums Sure. And even tequila. And if you have the parti of their baseline, you know, earlier on when the, when we had fuller pores in our glasses and before it opened up, I was speaking to its minerality and all of that, some of that sort of dissipated and it became sweeter as it began, as it began to open up.
But if you have the partita, their, their, their, their, their baseline, it is [01:46:00] very mineral forward because it's lowland. So lowland tequilas in general tend to be more earthy or mineral, a little more vegetal. So if you ever have a partita repo, just their regular reposado with this. You really are able to taste the sherry influence and fucking pagoda.
No, that's good. I'm fucked up up. Did you fall asleep? I'm just looking at him. No, he's just like, he's wide-eyed nodding his head. You know, having, I'm listening, I'm listening to the chef.
Oh my God. Oh man. Only thing that would make this night better is Grindr with the tequila drunkenness. I'm sorry. But yeah, if you ever have the baseline partita and this side, I love you Pa side, you'll really understand the influence that the
Senator: sherry barrel brings. The last thing I just wanna say on the versatility, so [01:47:00] what this reminded me of in like kind of the, the shock value of something that drinks more like a, a rum or whiskey.
Was, uh, Don Fello. Ajo.
Mm-hmm.
Senator: But the difference in what I give this a world of credit for Don Fello Anejo, when we had that, we all said like, wow, this drinks more like a whiskey than it does a tequila. Yeah. Yeah. We almost wouldn't have known it was a tequila off the bat, but that delivers that in such a full way that you would really only pair that with a new world cigar.
Yes. And I think we said that at the time, we would not pair that with a Cuban cigar. This does something similar, but in a more versatile way. In a more easygoing way, that I would pair this with a number of Cuban cigars as well. And that's where like my nine is such a strong nine, and it would've been a 10 if it weren't for the price in that.
Like I could see so many occasions. It's like most cigars, most that I would pull, uh, outta my humid or in smoke. [01:48:00] I could pair this with it. It would be great. And that's an awesome thing to say about
Gizmo: tequila. Yeah, that's true. Boys. The formal curating. Tonight on the Partita Robeno, Sherry Oak finished Tequila Reposado despite the massive argument we just had.
Is it 9.0? Correct? Everybody rated it the same. All right, how about that? Excellent. Go.
Pagoda: If I was allowed only one drink a night, this
Ricky: would be it. '
Pagoda: cause it tastes great. Drink was three. Just take
Chef : a sniff. This a sniff.
Gizmo: Alright boys, it's time now for the former lizard rating. Tonight on the, my father Blue in Toro Rooster, you're up. So this
Rooster: cigar is really, I think, blended. Perfectly, the Honduran tobaccos that are used in this. It's a perfect blend because, you know, it's, it's not that it's, it's a good medium cigar. It's not, it's not very mild.
Sometimes the Honduran cigars can be [01:49:00] on the milder side. Mm-hmm. And I think this cigar is just absolutely a perfect blend. Capture your attention. It does. And it's very easy to smoke. Mm-hmm. The construction, I think was very good. It was, uh, you know, there was a lot of great smoke output in the room. Um, little bit of a flaky ash here and there, but that's about it.
The cigar really delivers. I mean, it's, it's really, it's really well balanced. You know, it was, it was buttery and nutty. There was some earthiness to it. Uh, only thing that I, I would say like, maybe towards the end it was a rather large cigar. So right at the end, it get, it did get a little hot, and I won't say the last third, it was more like the last inch for me got a little bit hot.
Mm-hmm. And that's, that's a minor thing. And I think at this price point, what this delivers and how versatile it is, and, you know, I think it fits everybody's rotation. And, uh, so for that, all of those reasons, I'm at a nine. What God.
Senator: All right, [01:50:00] Senator. Alright. So what has solidified this from me? I'm disappointed.
I'm sorry. Well, now, so am I. So I've been going back and forth between a nine and a 10 on this cigar.
Pagoda: Yeah.
Senator: And I was leaning a nine because I thought my problem. Was gonna be that final inch that rooster was talking about. I lost that complexity of flavor and it was hot and just not the same experience.
I put it down, I re-lit the cigar after a cool down. I have less than an inch to go after a cool down. I the first I'm gonna do it right now. The first two draws I got, that's my cereal were, that was the salted butter. Salted butter that we first started with, that I didn't get from any of the second, third or the final third.
And
Gizmo: you're, you gotta be getting a little bit of sweetness still.
Senator: Oh, for sure.
Gizmo: A little bit of cocoa. I
Senator: and I came full circle back to where we started. Come on. It's delicious right now. I'm doing the same thing, dude. Absolutely delicious. And for [01:51:00] that reason, I'm at a 10, what Rooster said on the blend. It is perfect.
Which is why it ought to get a 10, not a nine. Correct. The combustion has been outstanding all the way through. I don't reach for Toros often. It's not my preferred Vitola welcome. But in this cigar, like the I, I even forgot I was smoking a Toro. Honestly, like for some reason, box didn't factor us. I
Rooster: think the box press helps.
The box makes it feel, it felt great
Senator: in my hand. I never even thought until I had to review the, uh, provide a score mm-hmm. That I was smoking a toro. There's nothing I can find wrong with this cigar. My cigar looked handsome when I had it in my hand. It smoked perfectly. I didn't have to touch it up outside of, when I was talking a lot and just neglecting the cigar that I needed a relight outside.
It burned evenly. I, I didn't get a bunch of ash all over me, I mean, in every way. And the [01:52:00] flavor was there all the way through. But done in such a smooth, incredible way and in such a differentiated way where this is not trying to compete with an exvivo, it's not trying to compete with an aging room. It's like how I've described for me what the aging room sonata is to the exvivo.
It's, it's the setup man. Right. It's, it's before the closer. This is like between the two, the, the long reliever, like before the setup guy comes in.
Pagoda: Mm-hmm.
Senator: And that's an awesome slot to have for a cigar like this. And the fact that even it can be a starter. And I can begin my day with this cigar, with this much flavor, but not, not strength, that's gonna, you know, kick me around without even having a meal yet to start the day.
There's so much versatility in this cigar. I'm shocked. This is outta my father. I give them a world of credit. Oh yeah. It is super complex in that at every stage you get [01:53:00] a ton of different flavor notes from sweet to savory, the minerality and saltiness. I, I, I'm so thrilled to see this and I hope we experience more cigars like it that have Honduran tobacco.
Correct. At this price point 12 bucks,
Bam Bam: 12 a Toro
Gizmo: dollars. That's MSRP by the way, that's not even if you get a promo code on sale, I mean, you could be getting, you, you, you can be getting this score for nine or 10 bucks. Yeah,
Rooster: no, I mean, I agree. The flavor and the blend is spot on. But if I had to choose between this and an exclusive o nine out of 10 times, I'm picking up an exclusive, but that're
Senator: not competing.
If I'm only gonna smoke once, CI's like saying Sino or the fabric of five is competing against, it's not. Right. Yeah. This is, so if I'm gonna pick
Rooster: up just one cigar, I would pick up an exclusive over this. Yeah. But I'm gonna, but thing is ci, you can smoke anything you
Gizmo: want at any time. Yes. That's, that's why I try.
I'm, I'm really, really trying. And the perfect example is to rate the fucking thing that we're doing in the room right now for what it is.
Senator: Just keep it [01:54:00] in the room. I, I don't wanna say for what it's for me, it's for what it's trying to do. I try what it's trying to be. Sure. And you know an example of this, the all Dino Cameroon we did probably got a perfect 10.
It didn't, I know I gave it a 10. Yeah, I think you got a 10 next placebo. I also gave a 10. And that doesn't mean the all Dino doesn't deserve the 10 because if I could only have one of them, I'd pick the Cevo over it for what the All Dino's trying to do, which is not to be this full, bold, Nicaraguan or medium full bold Nicaraguan.
It's amazing for what it's trying to do. It's just a medium smoke. Yeah. And this is trying to be a medium smoke. It does not want to be medium full. It doesn't want to be full, but full flavor. It delivers so much flavor. Correct. Which is awesome. Yeah. Yeah. So that's why for me, I'm at a 10.
Gizmo: So I just took my cigar, which had been on my cigar rest for about 15, 20 minutes.
You're welcome. And I re-lit it because of what Senator just said. Yep. And it was brilliant, like he was saying. So I'm also, I, you know, I, I'm really blaming myself for when I said the cigar got bitter at the end. Thanks, pagoda.
Pagoda: [01:55:00] You should.
Gizmo: We got as drunk, ladies and gentlemen. So I, I re-lit it and I had the same experience You did. It tasted perfect. So I'm not judging it on, on before that or after that. It was just a nice experiment for me. Mm-hmm. But I've been at, at, at a 10 since the end of the second, third, coming into the last third. I, I thought it was another brilliant, unique Honduran experience Yeah.
That we've had with Fabrica five we've had with Aino. And those three markers with this, my father are so different and you can slot them so differently that I'm shocked again at how much Honduran tobacco has to offer. But what's what, so what's your rating? It's a 10. It's a 10, but what's shocking is where it's coming from.
This Marco that's not known. Yeah. For creating elegant, smooth, sophisticated cigars. Especially not on this podcast, in our opinion, has done something brilliant tonight. This is just [01:56:00] off the charts what they did.
Chef : Yep.
Gizmo: So the price is brilliant, as Senator said, $12. Yeah. I mean, gimme a break. Of course. I mean, it, it's awesome.
I think this cigar is a great utility player and I, I think it's an anywhere, anytime cigar. I, I'll give you an example. I had a dinner meeting the other night and I didn't know what I would be in the mood to smoke after the dinner. So I packed a fiber, I put a fabric of five, I put a aging room, I put an in there, I put a bunch of cigars in there.
The choices, this cigar though, is one that I think you can be confident that wherever you end up in your day or night mm-hmm. It's gonna work.
Pagoda: Mm-hmm. It's
Gizmo: going to work because it offers what we love classically from Honduras cigars mm-hmm. In our time with them on this podcast. But it also offers something that is a little bit richer, a little bit more savory, and I think solves for what most Honduran cigars are missing after a big steak dinner or something like that.
I, I really think this is a great utility player. Agreed. [01:57:00] So for that reason and all the others that Senator and and Rooster mentioned, I'm in complete agreement. It's a 10. It's a great cigar. I'm really impressed. Kudos to my father. I hope we see more coming out of their Honduran factory. Please, my father move in this direction.
Correct. Move in this direction on your flavor. Correct. I don't wanna be punched in the face when I light one of your cigars. This was a great cigar. I have a quick question. Is there a regular rib robusto in this? There is, but it's 54 I believe by five and a quarter I think. And this is what, 54? This is also 54 by six, but that box press more value.
Yeah, so the rib robusto is 54 by five and a quarter. This Toro is 54 by six, so there's a three quarters of an inch difference in length. Same vila. And there's also the petite rib robusto 50 by four and a half. I mean it's
Senator: crazy to say but like on like just look at what's left of the, this does not feel like a 54 ring [01:58:00] gauge.
No, this looks like a 50.
Gizmo: Yeah, that's correct. It's a box press. That's exactly
Senator: right. I'm just shocked that I honestly may buy the regular reus to a box of that with 54 ring gauge and probably be perfectly satisfied. Yeah. Alright, pagoda.
Pagoda: It works. It's a 10. No, because you kept saying it, you know. Um, it is, it is a fantastic cigar. Um, I love the price point. That's great. Uh, he's a value guy. Great smoke output, great smoke output from the very beginning to the end.
Chef : Yep.
Pagoda: Uh, construction was great for me. I didn't even have to really light it up right till the end, like I'm less than of an inch now.
And, uh, delivers the flavors really, really well from, obviously, you know, the salted butter all the way. Even towards the end, I got a little bit of cocoa as well. And it was the sweet, salty balance. It was great. I think the rappers really worked with the Honduran fillers. Um, I would not, like when I [01:59:00] started smoking the cigar, I wouldn't have thought it's a Honduran if you would've handed this over to me by the non banded and said, is this Endurant?
The Ragin or Dominican? I would've learned more towards even Nicaragua and even though it's a Connecticut, uh, you know, uh, rapper. But my, my thought with it is that. Uh, this will come into my rotation tomorrow, meaning this is one of the cigars. I'm gonna go buy a couple of boxes and bring it into my rotation with the aging rooms and get the Gorda.
That's what I was gonna say. It's gonna lose a box, buy two Gorda boxes. No. Yeah. And it's been fantastic. And, you know, I don't even wanna put it down like it's right in the end. And, you know, what else can you ask for? Yeah, yeah. It's a tent for me. Yeah. Nice. All right,
Chef : chef. Yeah. You know, look, I, any issues I have with the cigar, I'm gonna chalk up the user error.
Uh, especially after, um, you know, the, what I've learned from Senator today and just, you know, grabbing near the ash and making sure that, you know,
Gizmo: grab your
Chef : [02:00:00] ash boys, grab your ash. Yeah. Make sure it's not too hot, you know, and, uh, that's a, that's a correct
Pagoda: and
Ricky: put your
Pagoda: two fingers by it
Ricky: sometimes. One
Chef : God, I love tequila. My God. We're off the rails. Alright, Sue, go ahead. But, uh, no, once I allowed this to cool down, I really smoked deliciously. Mm-hmm. Uh, you know, I'd say it's a, it was about a one and a half act glee, uh, you know, it delivered great flavor consistently, all the way down to the end. All the way down to the end.
Uh, even my flaky ash, I, you know, I wouldn't say that was consistent across the room. Senator had a nice ash, bam, bam, had a nice ash, um, you know. Pagoda Pagodas ashes. How's
Senator: Pagodas
Chef : ashes? Pagodas ashes. It's in his lap right now, by the way. And I'm too far from G to notice what his [02:01:00] ashes like. But he didn't complain about it.
It was good. It was very good. So yeah, I'm gonna say it was user error. And I think maybe going with a softer flame on this, uh, cigar would help a lot in terms of delivering great flavor throughout the entire experience. And even possibly a better ash. So, or a single flame. Yep. Or a single flame. So with that being said, and the price point, that's phenomenal, even without a promo code or any discount, um, this is a tent for me.
I'd love to smoke this again. Uh, I could fit it in anywhere throughout the day and, uh, you know, yeah. My father delivers a lot of harsh Yes. Harshness in their cigars. And this was a cigar that felt different. It smoked differently. It felt good to smoke. Um, and I enjoyed it. So, yeah, I can't wait to do it again.
Senator: As bam would say, the cigars ready for prime time.
Gizmo: I agree. Totally. All right. Ba Yeah. So I'm at a 10. Um, there's an advantage at [02:02:00] times and being the last guy to rate, because I agree with what everyone said here. The hype did. Meet the experience. Everyone talked this up. A lot of guys that I know had the cigar, they love the cigar ov.
That's right. But not just him. Like a bunch of guys in town where I live really love the cigar and I'm looking at it, you know, okay, it's my father. Yeah. I don't know what to expect. So I just love how surprisingly beautiful and delicious and smooth and elegant and sophisticated the cigar was. Yeah. And it's a no-brainer.
And it's something that's definitely gonna, I think, and I think it's a no-brainer to say we're gonna all go out and buy the cigar. It's gonna enter the weekly rotation immediately, and it creates a great offset of hondu and tobacco for our, in our collections. I agree. Yeah. So I'm at a very strong tent.
All right, boys. The formal e rating tonight on the, my Father Blue in Toro is a 9.8. Can you believe it? Wow. Great score. Wow. [02:03:00] Let's compare that boys to the other, my father cigars we've done on the pod. This is wild to look at. On episode 23, we did the judge in Toro 5.6. Jesus. On episode 63, we did the number four.
Lan Cero scored at 8.3. Mm-hmm. On episode 73, we did the Don Pepin Blue in, uh, the LAN scored at 9.0. Mm-hmm. And finally on episode 167, we did the Cigar of the year. Mf, the judge in Grand Robusto scored a four complete disaster. Wow. Like, imagine a four coming from the same manufacturer that a 9.8 did tonight.
There's no greater disaster than that cigar. And that was the Cigar of the year. Cigar of the year. Thank you.
Rooster: You
Gizmo: know,
Rooster: to get
Gizmo: a
Rooster: four.
Gizmo: Thank you ca. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. We should send them a bill.
Chef : Correct.
Gizmo: Well, boys, what a great night tonight. Mm-hmm. We had a great pairing. The Partita Robeno, [02:04:00] Sherry Oak finished Tequila.
Reposado scored a 9.0 and the my father blew in Toro scored a nine. What is going on with Pagoda? No, no, but he took down half that glass. He scored a 9.8. He is sucked up right now. Of course we have to thank Lizard Doc, our lizard of the week, and all of the other lizards who write us every week. We really appreciate it.
We love hearing from everyone. It's really important that you write in and tell us what you're smoking, tell us what you're thinking, ask your questions. It's really great to hear from you and we love sharing it on the pod. And of course boys, we have to thank our sponsor Fabrica five. Correct. They are great.
You talk about excellent Honduran tobacco Fabrica five delivers that. I know a lot of our listeners have gone out and purchased Fabrica five using our code, and every single listener should do it, especially the Cuban cigar smokers who've not done that yet and can't get Cuban cigars. You're missing out.
Give it a shot. Yeah, you're absolutely gonna love their stuff. They have great samplers. There's new Olas coming all the time. Try their stuff. I'm very, very proud and we're very, very proud to have Fabrica [02:05:00] five as a sponsor, boys a great night tonight. An excellent pairing, an excellent pagoda of course.
And uh, we'll see everybody next week. Somebody get the shot back.
Hope you enjoyed this episode. Thanks for joining us. You can find our merch store and ratings archive at our brand new website, lounge lizards pod.com. That's lounge lizards PO d.com. Don't forget to leave us a rating and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. If you have any comments, questions, if you wanna reach out, say hello, tell us what you're smoking, email us hello@loungelizardspod.com.
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