Fall River City Council Meeting January 23rd, 2023

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[00:00:00] City council. Public will come to order. Clerk will call the road councilors. Kadeem Dion. Here. Kilby here. A liberty Here. Hellier. Yeah. Perrera. Here. Repo here. Washington. Here. President Camara Here. Pursuant to the open meeting law, any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting, or may transmit this meeting to any medium.

[00:00:24] Attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or transmissions are being made, whether perceived or unperceived by those present and are deemed acknowledged and permissible. Motion open. The public hearing motion over the public hearing has been made And seconded or in favor? Aye. Aye. We have a pole location, Massachusetts Electric Company for one new pole location as follows.

[00:00:46] On Guild Street, one new pole, the per the petitioner is proposing to install a 35 foot pole and anchor in front of 1 43 Guild Street, approximately 185 feet south of the center line of the intersection with Mount Hope Avenue. This pole, pole number four will be utilized to guide, brace an existing pole, number three, and be a stub pole to brace the dead end wires on pole three.

[00:01:12] In accordance with plan number 3 0 50 86 46, dated January 4th, 2023. Are there any proponents to this public hearing? Any proponents you wanna come down, please if you're a proponent, if you're in favor of this, in favor, yes, proponents, I'm in favor.

[00:01:41] Good evening. Good evening. Um, Aaron Roy, uh, national Grid, 1250 Braden Point Road in, uh, Somerset. Um, you explained exactly what we're trying to do. Um, the purpose of this job, uh, is for the customer, uh, 1 43 Guild Street. Um, they installed, uh, solar on their, uh, on their roof last year. And whenever, um, they upgrade the service and install solar, they, uh, they get a work order through National Grid and, uh, goes through our dg, uh, distribu, uh, distribution generation, um, department, just a solar department.

[00:02:17] And, um, they figure out what's what's best needed for, for this house. And in this circumstance, this house, um, requires a single transformer, which means we would have to extend primary wire from Mount Ho bv, uh, to pull three on, uh, Guild Street. Um, There's no guying. Um, the only place we could possibly guide it, if we would've set an anchor, it would be right in the middle of that driveway.

[00:02:44] So this, uh, the purpose of the stub pole, the 30, uh, 35 foot, uh, stub pole, um, is to help, uh, guide the primary wire that we would've to run to pole three. So, all right. Thank you very much. That's it. [00:03:00] Are there any opponents to this p people who are against it? Please come down. Please

[00:03:13] just please state your name, um, for the record. Name, address, Andre Peters. I'm no owner of 1 43 Gil Street. Okay. And I don't want the pole built in the location that it's built. I'm not, I'm fine with the pole being built, but I just don't want it in the location that it is on my. Okay. Whereabouts in the property?

[00:03:32] Is it right in the middle of your driveway? Is it to the side or It's close to, hi, it's Clo. He's my neighbor. He's closer to his driveway, but it's basically at the edge of my property, um, to the, um, let's see. That's, and I'm not sure if you guys are aware of the fact that, uh, the water line for, uh, my house runs through his property and it runs diagonally across.

[00:03:55] So if they put a pole in that area where maybe having a problem with the water line from my house being broken, okay, because the usage of or digging that hole is gonna end up causing vibrations, then we may end up having issues as number one. Number two, I never received any notification of this at all.

[00:04:16] And it, like he said, he's looking at the pole sitting right next to my driveway.

[00:04:23] So the other thing is, I understand they're trying to put a brace on it, and if the brace actually is. You know, for the existing pole, which I agree is right next to his driveway. And if they wanted to put the line down on that one, it would end up being more or less in the middle of his driveway, which should not be a good thing.

[00:04:40] But at the same time, I'm, I'm concerned with why they have to put the additional, uh, brace on there. Were you adding a new transformer to this existing pole? I believe you said they was gonna add his house with the solar panels. You were the solar panels, yeah. I think it requires, one transformer is necessary.

[00:04:57] And I was also, I signed up for the solar so long ago that I kind of don't even want to deal with the company anymore, but it's just, I, I'm, it's too far past that point, so, but I just, like I said, I just don't want them to build this pole in the location that is going. Okay. We'll get referred. We'll get referred, I'm sure.

[00:05:18] Thank you. Alright, hold on one second. Do you have Councilman C two, do you have a question for the gentleman or do you wanna comment? Well, the general question, I mean, has the city planner been involved in this at all? Or, or the city engineer. up to this point? Yes. In their opinion. Well, I think they're gonna approve it.

[00:05:36] If we approve it. I think it passed. I'm not, I don't know. I'm sure they didn't have those concerns, but doesn't mean we can't have a meeting. No, I wasn't suggesting that. I didn't say you didn't. I suggest, doesn't mean we can't have a meeting. Didn't know if they knew anything of this or what had hap had transpired up until this point.

[00:05:56] Is that a yield ma'am? Clerk just fill in the council. [00:06:00] If it wouldn't, if you didn't get approved from the city engineer, it wouldn't be before us. It was approved. It's, um, the city engineer signed off. It's, it says that the installation of the pole location on the attached order is ada is in ADA compliance and permission is granted.

[00:06:17] He has a side note that says this is an area of grass shoulder with no sidewalks. That's his, that's his note. So he did sign off. He did approve. We could refer to community regulations and have them come down and explain. That's that, that's the only question I have with my thing. I just like say it's ugly.

[00:06:36] Okay. But B, there is a water line that runs diagonal across. Cause the guy built the house basically had one tap When going to this house, one coming to mind, one going diagram on across the yard. All right. Thank you. Thank you gentlemen. We'll take it from here. Thank you so much. So council, it's in, it's up to the council.

[00:06:57] If you wanna refer to committee, do you yield council C two? Yes. Council C four. Council, Liberty Threeway. Um, say my questions for the, excuse me. Excuse me. What discussion right now? Please? Madam Clerk. Will you just make sure that they're notified when the meeting is and yeah. Yes, we can take care of it.

[00:07:14] It just looks like there's already a pole in this gentleman's driveway. Did he say it's his house that has the solar? Yes. Thank you counsel. Right.

[00:07:29] There being no further motion to close the public hearing. Do we need to make a recommendation? Refer? No. No. That later. Alison, are we all set? We need to refer it out of this committee. Seconding. You gonna refer it to committee when it comes up? It's on regular meeting. Okay. Motion to close the public hearing as we made.

[00:07:50] Is there a second? Second. Second. All in favor? Aye. Motion carries. Opposed?

[00:08:06] You ready? Alison? One second.

[00:08:18] City council committee. Finance will come to order. Clerk will call the roll

[00:08:24] councils Adeem. Dion. Here. Kilby. Here. La Liberty? Here. Hellier. Here. Perrera. Here. Raposo. Here. Washington. Here. President Camara Here. Just wanna make a note that I had communication with Council Khadem today. He said he had a commitment that he couldn't get out of, so unfortunately he won't be at tonight's city council meeting.

[00:08:47] Pursuant to the open meeting law, any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting, or may transmit this meeting to any medium. Attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or transmissions are being made, whether perceived or un [00:09:00] perceived by those present, and are deemed acknowledged and permissible.

[00:09:08] We have item first one come forward is a creation of stabilization fund to be called opioid settlement receipt stabilization fund. Do you wanna come down?

[00:09:38] She could just give us a brief overview about this new account, please.

[00:09:51] So we have to set up the stabilization fund because the way the money is coming in from, um, the state, it's coming into local receipts. And in order for us to be able to expend the money as it's intended, we have to set up a stabilization fund. And I think in your packets it's provided, um, all the pieces that need to happen to set this up properly.

[00:10:09] And then once the stabilization fund is set up, we will then come back with, um, intentions to spend the money that you'll then have to approve. , there is talk of them, of the state setting up a special revenue for this money to be put into. And once that happens, we would move it into a special revenue, which would, um, but unfortunately they just, I think they rushed to get the money down and didn't think of the next steps.

[00:10:34] So I don't know if anybody has any questions. Does anyone have any questions? No. Okay. Thank you for that. Uh, item eight B, transfer the sum of $931,039 and 86 cents from the general fund to the opioid settlement receipts stabilization fund. No questions on that one either. Seems simple enough. Item eight C except the fourth paragraph of Mass General Law, chapter 40, section five B, which provides for the dedication to a stabilization fund to be effective for the fiscal year, beginning July 1st, 2023.

[00:11:17] There being no questions. Make, entertain a motion, accept place on file in May's communication. Adopt the orders.

[00:11:32] So there being no further questions. We will go on to item number three in finance, which is a resolution discussion on real estate taxes and exemptions with the chair of the board of assessors and the city administrator. Mr. Gon,

[00:11:59] thank [00:12:00] you, uh, council president, counselors Richard Goza, chairman of the board of C of records session.

[00:12:09] So before start, wanna start of the resolution. me. Yes, counsel. Um, the reason that I put this in is lots of people have been calling relative to their tax bills. People need to understand what the difference is between the first and second quarter and the third and fourth quarter, if we could explain that.

[00:12:31] And also that there are availability to have put in an abatement you can file for an abatement. Whether or not you get it will be determined. But there's also a number of exemptions and I don't know that people are aware of the many exemptions. And one of the things is the social security deduction for single was 5,201 I see were single and married was 7,000.

[00:13:01] That on the 41 C, the first page you gave us, if you could explain that. And some of those deductions I think are a little low. , who changes that? Does the board of assessors change that, or is that a vote of the council to change that? No, those, those come in from the state. The state sends us the, uh, deductions, allowable social security every year.

[00:13:24] Um, what we have is the, uh, process of, um, changing the limits. We can change those limits. We can. So what are the limits now, Mr. Gonzalez? Well, one of the limits, if we look at the assets, there's a limit of 30,000. You can change that limit by a council vote. Let me remind you that, um, two things on this. On a 41

[00:13:53] They're our, our largest exemptions. That's the elderly. And we give out $500 if you qualify. Okay. Um, reimbursement is zero from the, the state. So I can show you, um, The number, and I'll tell you the number of 41 Cs we give out 300 currently, right now, 343. Uh, of those exemptions, 171,500 is what is charged to our overlay.

[00:14:25] Reimbursement is zero. What does the state reimburse us for? The state reimburses us for quite a few exemptions, but not that particular one. They, they do a, a good job, and I say a good job on our 17 Ds, which are the widows. Um, they also do a great job on the, um, surviving spouses of the veterans. Uh, they, it's a full reimbursement.

[00:14:52] So we give out right now, uh, 88,000, uh, $35 and 86 cents. We get that back [00:15:00] full amount. So that's, that's a hundred percent reimbursement. Now on that, , the 17 D mm-hmm. for seniors and survivors spouses. That one, um, the assets included checking, savings, CDs or irs and it's, the limit is 40,000. Yes. Yes, it is.

[00:15:20] Is that something that the council could up or No? Yes, but the, the, the issue would be again, that any type of, um, upping of assets, requirements, or, uh, income, two things happen. Number one, we know it's, if any new ones come in, it's gonna raise our overlay. But on those particular changes, we don't know what liability is out there.

[00:15:47] There's no studies in, in that. I would suggest that that, um, and it's kind of hard to do, but we would look before, we would raise limits, look at the impact of what can happen in the overlay. I agree. But on that, all of the, um, Whatever monies are given out on 17 D are the state reimburses us, right?

[00:16:10] Correct. For all of it, for a hundred percent of it, correct? Correct. But it's on the, on the, uh, 17 Ds. Currently it's 104 and we get reimbursed. 18,200 is what we give out. So we get a full reimbursement on that. So if that went up, we would still get the reimbursement. The only thing is we would have to put more money into your, that account so that we could have that money.

[00:16:34] And then wait, the state will take a year before it replenishes, correct? Yes. Yes. Okay. Maybe it would just be easier if you went through what the different programs are so that people are aware of any exemption that they could benefit from. And when the exemption don't, don't exemptions have to be filed by April or March, uh, three months from when the, when the bills go out.

[00:16:58] So, uh uh, let's assume that the bills. Hit the streets, uh, the 28th of December. Mm-hmm. , three months from that date, that's what we'd be looking at. So we'd look at March, at the end of March. Right. But vestments don't happen until, like, probably, uh, a month ago. The state, we put 'em in as quick as we can.

[00:17:19] Right. But the reimbursement monies don't come in for months later. So that by that time we're beyond the, we're into the next fiscal year. Correct. So it, it adds, it adds by increasing any exemptions. It adds on, uh, to a liability in our overlay that by the time we get that monies back, we're giving it out again.

[00:17:43] And, and again, when raising any type of limits, we have no idea what type of liability we're gonna get. But you'd be able to do a study on that and look at what the liability would be, how many seniors we have, how many properties they own. It's kind of [00:18:00] hard. It's kind of hard. I mean, we, we can have a, there's some ways we can do it, but in our database, we don't ask for age.

[00:18:08] So if you, if you go into our database on our real estate side, it's own the name, address. Um, and that's, that's about it. We, we don't have telephone numbers in our database. Um, we would probably have to work with maybe senior citizen group. Uh, they could give us some information, but, but that's kind of like digging and it, that takes time to dig.

[00:18:34] Um, now let me ask you this, uh, Mr. Gonzales, I know that some communities will allow seniors as well to work a certain amount of hours within a community and they get money off of their taxes. I don't know if they do that in Dartmouth or if you're, we did it here. . We did it here a few years ago when I, when I was here full-time.

[00:18:54] And why did it stop? Um, I guess just the, the demand. It didn't, it used to come through the, uh, Madeline's office. Okay. She would keep record of it. I think one of the turnoffs with that is, um, if you say that they can work and make a thousand dollars, let's say, off their taxes at the end of the year, they have to claim that with the irs.

[00:19:18] So I think once in the beginning the state wasn't doing that and the IRS wasn't pushing that. But then all of a sudden when that happened, I think you saw the demand get less and less and less. And there's also a liability on our end when they come in. Uh, should these people get hit on the job, we may be liable on, on that on the other side.

[00:19:41] Um, so how do other communities do that Liability? We used to do it. We don't do it. We don't do it anymore. Um, again, I think the big turnoff isn't so much really the liability because you have 'em inside. Mm-hmm. , but, um, the turnoff is that they have to claim it at the end of the year. So I, I mean, I don't know what their tax brackets could be, but if you think about it, we're giving them a thousand dollars and that thousand dollars can push 'em in another tax bracket on the IRS side and that could be a bigger headache than what it's worth.

[00:20:17] And I think that was one of the reasons why that didn't happen, because I know that there's some success in other communities doing it. But I think if you just let people know what the exemptions are, what they're eligible for, um, through some of the exemptions that we have would be helpful for the community at large.

[00:20:37] I can go over it. We have, uh, before you go, before you go over, there's a couple other counselors that wanna speak as well, so you can do that at the end if we miss 'em. Any of 'em? Okay. I just have one question myself. The $500 exemption, how long have we been paying out $500? Since it started, how many years ago?

[00:20:52] Oh, I don't know. Well, before I was here, I'd say councilor. So I mean, everything has gone up right? Over and over. I think the council should seriously look [00:21:00] at raising that $500. I, I understand we don't get any money back for that, but I think it's the time that we take a serious look for that because an elderly person getting the same amount of money that they were getting someone, they can claim this in their seventies point of order, point of order Counsel.

[00:21:16] I believe that you're supposed to relinquish your post to the vice president if you wanna ask questions and have conversation. Yeah, I was that, that's the only question I had. All right, you're right. Thank you, counselor. So, constant seat seven proposal. Yeah. Just a point of clarification. Then another question.

[00:21:34] The amounts of, of the exemptions, are those not set by state? . Yes, they are. That what so is So the $500 for the seniors is set by State statute. State statute. So we can't change that number. No, no. You can Can't change it. You can't. You can by city, ordinance, by, right. Okay. Right. So my other question was, in your most recent bills, do you have a sense of how many exemptions you received and how many were approved?

[00:22:05] You mean like, did we turn any down? Yeah, we've turned, we've turned. Oh, I would imagine people apply for exemptions. I haven't had that. Counsel. We can get it. Yeah. I'm, I'm just, I'm just curious, like, when we talk about, you know, getting out there and how many people actually do apply for them, and then how many people are actually eligible for them, is my question.

[00:22:23] Give you, at least, give you maybe a somewhat of a historical sense of what you're looking at. I, I think right off the bat when we look at the, the seniors and widows mm-hmm. , we're looking at, um, 448 maybe. 448 that we've given out of the 41 C and the 17 D together combined. So four, say that again please. 4 48.

[00:22:45] And that's the ones that were approved. Right? We don't have a sense of how many may have been applied for and No, I think what happens is because the limits, they, the taxpayers know the limits. They're gonna, they're gonna know right away. I, I don't think we're, uh, denying as many as we're giving out.

[00:23:04] Mm-hmm. . I, I think in the scheme of things, we probably, a wild guess would be 10% maybe, of what we give out is what we deny. Because a lot of the taxpayers, once they read the qualifications mm-hmm. , they say, I got 50,000 in assets, I'm not even gonna apply. So that number isn't, isn't a large number. Right. I think the large number is, uh, when you raise limits, we don't know.

[00:23:30] When you stop changing qualifications around, , I, we have no idea until the fifth second because it, it may move people that weren't eligible for now they're eligible and now they're on. Right. And you have no sense of what that, that could be cuz the data's not there to, that's support it. Correct. It's kind of hard.

[00:23:47] And again, I keep mentioning it's kind of hard to get that data. Mm-hmm. . Okay. Hi, yield. Thank you. Thank you. Council. Council for Council. Council Liberty. Thank you. Can you just clarify the, the state statute sets [00:24:00] it, but are you saying we can change the amount or we can change the, um, the specifics of who can imply You can change, you can change the amounts right off the bat.

[00:24:12] Okay. If you wanna adjust age, you can. You, you have that possibility of doing that. But the problem again is reimbursement. Correct. By changing any type of exemption, the state's not gonna reimburse you for that. Correct. That part I got, I just, I, I thought it was just the amount, but we can actually change their income limits and assets if you'd like.

[00:24:36] Mm-hmm. . Okay. And so the 41 and the 1741 C is the only one that's not reimbursed. Um, the veterans is reimbursed. And then my other questions are just on, on some information. Do we send any information out with the tax bills on exemptions or where can, it's in our office. We have it in our office at the counter.

[00:24:57] A a actually, let me, let me put a, a little plug in. We have a great working staff that takes care of these people once they come in. Um, but is there anything on the tax bill that tells people that there are exemptions? I'm, I'm thinking, you know, of our veterans too, surviving spouses. I noticed on here there's a effective FY 23 for gold star parents.

[00:25:19] Is that a brand new exemption? It's brand new. The whole exemption is brand new. It's new. So, I mean, I'm hoping that veteran services is, is getting this information out. But is the city, I would say they do. I mean, your veteran agent probably out there pushing it if he can. And, uh, o one thing about the tax bill, getting back what's on the tax bill is, uh, the time and, and the date to file an abatement.

[00:25:44] An abatement, right. Because I think the reason for that is the bill is the valuation and that that's linked into filing dates. Yep. So that's very important. So, and, and to file an abatement, is that the February 1st deadline? Yes. Yes. But to file for, um, an exemption, it's three months. Three months from the bill goes out from the database.

[00:26:06] So two totally separate things. Two different, right. Okay. But one, one thing, let me just say this again. A plug for the office, the people who receive exemptions, we mail them to 'em mm-hmm. every year. Okay. So they, they get mailed. A, a notice say. So they already know though. But I wanna let other people know.

[00:26:25] Right, right. Might not know. Um, is this information, you can ask this question on our website. It is, it is. All right. Um, so I will tell you that the, uh, the Veteran's Office has this information. Um, I don't know for sure. Um, I just, I wasn't able to connect, uh, if Council and Aging has this at the senior centers.

[00:26:45] Cause I think that would be a really cool, that would be a great, that was, yeah. Um, place for this to get distributed. The statutory exemptions, um, with the exception of the, the newest one, which is Gold Star Families. Gold Star, uh, and also I think it's Mass General Laws Chapter 59, section 43 and [00:27:00] 42, which are firefighters and police officers killed in the line of duty, which is also an exemption available.

[00:27:04] I don't think that's on there. No, it's not. Those are the only two that were missing on the. . Um, and on this handout, uh, that I could find that the city has accepted, um, so can you just say that, so the Gold Star parents is on here, what did you say? For the, uh, I think it's 59 42, um, clause. And is that also brand new?

[00:27:22] Nope. Uh, I just think we might have, uh, I know it's been accepted by the city. I think, uh, uh, in the, cuz I was just looking at this in the morning. Um, I'm gonna make sure that we put that on the site as, as one of our exemptions, um, you know, only, uh, affects a, a small number of people, but it's an important exemption.

[00:27:38] Absolutely. And we should have it on there. Uh, but it is on there. It's easily findable. Do you know what the amount is? I don't. I don't. So if you, if you wouldn't mind, um, getting that Sure. Um, information to us and if you have the ability to put it on the website and, um, if you wanna give one more plug for the assessor's office.

[00:27:58] Is this, is it the 3 24 2300? Is that the assessors or that the mayor's office? I think that's just the main, it's the main line. Do you know the number to the assessor's office? 2300? Yeah, it is the 2300. Yeah, that's, so if anybody assessors meeting. Okay. That's a nice 5 0 8 3 2 4 2300 if anyone has questions.

[00:28:17] But it is on the Yeah. Website. It is definitely on the website. In a easy to find spot. Take that to the bank. Yeah. Okay. Uh, um, I yield. Thank you Council President Kamara. Thank you Mayor and vice president, Mr. Golo. So, as we were saying, the $500 exemption has been around forever. Everything has gone up. So $500 10 years ago does not do what $500 does today.

[00:28:43] So I think to my colleagues, we should probably look at that and sit down. Seth, I think we should probably take a peek at that because two and a half goes up every year. The cost of everything's going up and elderly people have been contacted by a couple that said that that exemption hasn't changed for as long as they can remember since they've been applying for this.

[00:28:57] So maybe it's time that we take a look and see what we can afford to give them and raise that number. Um, cause $500. 15 years ago, 10 years ago. How long has it, how long have you been in Wisconsin? 20 something years. ? Yeah. No, I've been in assessor for 41 and I've always remembered it at five, $500. I mean, can I, let's, let's dig about that, but, but, uh, listen into the city's defense town of it's 500 forever, Dan.

[00:29:25] Yeah, no, I get it cuz they don't get, I, I get it. I understand that, but I'm just saying maybe we should take the lead in this one. Absolutely. I mean, I know the DOT's home to your hop, but I mean No, they, everything we do is left based Fall River dot . No, I get it. But I mean, we should really take a look at that because there's people out there that are struggling and the exemption is nice, but it doesn't, it doesn't do anything that even five years ago is a tremendous difference with $500.

[00:29:50] So to my colleagues and maybe Seth, you can talk to the mayor and see if we can have a discussion and see what we can do going forward into next year and seeing if we can maybe see how much it'll cost us if [00:30:00] we raise that a little bit. I mean, I think we have the. The number of, of how much we gave in the exemption this year, right?

[00:30:05] Or Oh yeah. In the most, most recent, yeah, that's, that's what I'm leaving. And how much was that? The number is for total on 41 C. On 41 C is um, 171,500. So using the $500 exemption, $170,000 thereabouts. So if we double it, you know, $340,000, if we triple it, 400 and $510,000. Yeah. And, and we don't get any, we don't get any reimbursement on that one.

[00:30:33] Yeah. Yeah. So I, I mean I never used the word double or triple, but I mean, if we add another $250 on, um, you know, it's not gonna kill us. I was just going for the easy math, so I didn't embarrass myself in front of council Dean. So, cuz I know she had already done it. I think it's something that we should discuss going forward.

[00:30:49] Certainly. And maybe we can, you know, give some relief to people. Cuz most of those people have lived in this city entire life, pay taxes their entire life and done everything right. And now they're at a point in their life where their social security checks aren't going up. Um, I mean, anything else is going up two and a half percent.

[00:31:07] Everything else is going up, so we should just take a peek at that. With that. Thank you. Thank you. And President Council Kilby? No, that was my question. In terms, how was my question in terms of, uh, what's the impact on our budget? But do you council President's Point? No. No. Okay. I yield. Oh, okay. You can continue to to council President's Point at this.

[00:31:27] It's a no-brainer. You know, I know speaking personally, my parents are 85 and 85 years old and as many, many people that, uh, in this city that have worked tirelessly throughout their careers and would really like at least at, at a minimum, a double on, uh, what that exemption would be. So, um, I thought it'd be much more feeling.

[00:31:52] I feel like we do have somewhat of an older community, um, and as I think as we have an obligation as people grow older, to, um, you know, I'm one of them pretty soon too, but as we all get older, we should, um, be taking care of our seniors. So, thank you. Are you Mr. President? Thank you. Council. Council seat Senator.

[00:32:14] Council, you know what? Yeah, just, just one thing. If, if this is something that the council's gonna look at, what I would possibly like to see Mr. Gonzales is some information regarding other communities similar to ours to see what their exemptions are. Have they changed any of their liabilities, uh, limits, I should say, or the actual amounts in which they exempt.

[00:32:35] So if we can get that information, it would be helpful in, in, I think, in the decision making process, if that's possible. Oh yeah. We can go on, uh, call up the communities, uh, gateway. We can look at Todd and New Bedford. A burro. Yeah. Cause I, I think that would be, that'd be, uh, good to use that and look at what we have and if, are we in line currently or to President Kamara's point?

[00:32:55] Is this something that we take, take the lead on. So I yield. Thank you. [00:33:00] Thank you Council. Council. T eight Council Washington. Um, thank you council president. Just to, uh, kind of piggyback what you said about the 500, I think we should also really take a look at the asset limits and look at increasing that.

[00:33:12] If, is that a possible, is that just, can you, so that's a little harder to, because like, we don't, nobody's like, there's not a database for people's net worth. So we don't know. I wouldn't, I mean, we could start to try to get people to come in and, you know, fill out some kind of census, but, so when you deny people, um, they have to provide it when they apply.

[00:33:32] Right? So when you, so people apply, some people don't qualify. What's a disqualification then, if it's not asset limits, like what would it dis Well, there's income, there's so income. Income, right. So you done this. That's a big one. Let me, let me say this. Uh, in the olden days, and I can go back to the olden days a little bit, yeah.

[00:33:48] Income wasn't, wasn't the big disqualification was assets. Mm-hmm. , today's world. as the, the seniors, as, as the people start to become seniors. 4 0 1 s when that came into play, all those pensions that are coming in now, the income level becomes a possibility of rejection. Yeah. I I, I feel like it's very archaic because, so let's, if we're going with, uh, your income limit, it's a single person is 20,000, and then a married couple is 25,000.

[00:34:21] There's a fi it's very like, maybe when the, you know, back in 40 years ago when this was mm-hmm. when it was just the husband that worked and maybe the wife had a part-time job, but two people can't have worked and have social security checks now and be qualified for this. So if there's, can you, can we look at raising the income level two?

[00:34:39] Can, you can, but again, I guess we don't know. A, we don't know the liability. Yeah. That's coming through the door. And B, we are going to have a decision to make on whether or not we increase the al. Yeah, I mean, uh, what we use the overlay right now, we're giving out half of our overlay. This year's overlay is, is a million dollars, a million change a million, right?

[00:35:07] A million and round numbers. Half of the money is set aside for exemptions. The rest is to cover mistakes. Now, we, we try not to, to have mistakes, but you never know in this world. And, and what bothers me is, is that as we start to progress in terms of, um, the new growth, last month when I came here and I said it was, uh, the month before was a banner year, and we, we had all this new growth.

[00:35:39] The end part of that new growth is the liability. We don't know yet until the end of this month or February 1st. It's fine to pick up all that new growth, but sometimes it comes back to haunt us because, you know, They, they, the taxpayer comes back and says, you know, you guys value this [00:36:00] property at X amount, it's not worth it.

[00:36:01] And they, they get lawyers and we have our lawyers and we go to court and we battle it out. And believe me when I say this, we are really conservative when it comes to that. We fight tooth and nail. Again, it's a decision that the administration has to make and everybody in this room, if you want to increase that, you need to increase the resources of that.

[00:36:26] Do you have the capability in this additional liability in your budget? I definitely think it's something that has to be looked at cuz it's just the, the numbers seem archaic. So see, the, the only issue with R raising the asset limit is that when it was. by the state, because I mean, so what we have is essentially a default set of numbers here, right?

[00:36:47] We've got the $500, we have the asset level standard. It's a standard thing, right? And then you can deviate from that based upon whatever your, your city council or, or town meeting, whatever form of government you have wants to do. The problem is that when they, when the state set this 30,000 as of, uh, you know, 2000, late 2021, when they would've set this, they actually had at their disposal tax returns and metrics and all sorts of other things, which we don't have, right?

[00:37:11] So I think we can safely know what the cost of the city is by increasing the amount of the exemption. But even if you increase that asset limit by 10,000 or 20,000, there is absolutely no way. I mean, you were walking into total darkness. There's no way of knowing how that's gonna affect it. Is it gonna be minor?

[00:37:29] Maybe? Is it gonna be, is it gonna double or triple or quadruple our liability? Possibly. There's just no way to know, and I think it's a, it's a hard thing to even look at because what would we look at? Well, and I, I, I think that my colleague in seat seven. Was correct. And when he's asking for the denials, I would like, I'm curious to see how many people were denied and then why are they denied?

[00:37:50] Because I think that would give us a number where they denied for their assets. You know, they, you know, made $5,000 over that $25,000 limit for, you know, I think that there, we could probably just take our own data and look at our own data and see from what we have as rejections of what we need to do. I think that was a, a great point, um, in his defense.

[00:38:10] So I just think these numbers are archaic. They, they just, um, and, uh, with that I yield, thank you council count seat six cuts per the, I'm more concerned with 17 D than I am with 41 C, the $500 for seniors, but on 17 d it's 175 for seniors or surviving spouses. Now when you look at the asset limit there, do they, does the house that they live in count as an asset or No, it's just financially what they're bringing in.

[00:38:40] Right, right. I think that, could be brought up. They have to live in the house for five years, but that's 70 or over and surviving spouse, that could be dropped to 65 cuz some places have it at 65. And I think if you are looking at assets instead of giving [00:39:00] 175, I think you give more there. Give two 50.

[00:39:03] You've gotta give these seniors a little bit more. We're living in an era that people's tax bills, this, this council did not raise taxes more than two and a half percent. We didn't. But people get their bill the third and fourth quarter and they think that we did, we even kept it where residential was gonna be the same in the businesses.

[00:39:23] We're gonna pay what they paid. We didn't cut on the businesses cuz we knew that the, the residential were gonna be hurting. But if you think that seniors are not hurting, they are hurting. We need to do something more for seniors or surviving spouses. A widow alone trying to keep that house. That maybe her and her husband built, um, maybe the husband's alive and the wife has passed away and that husband wants to stay in that home.

[00:39:49] You gotta give back a little bit of something. And values have gone up on property, so their taxes have gone up. I just think that we need to look at 17 d at least whatever money we give, we'll get back next year from the government. Well, no, you only get back the reimbursement of the 1 75. So if we, if we, whatever we increase will be a cost of the city.

[00:40:11] Yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna then fine. But yeah, so that, but it's gotta be, you know, you're gonna get the 1 75 back. So from, again, like, not like people's assets and net worth that is such an unknown. And that's, I mean, again, we don't even have the ability or st and that's, we would be basing on people voluntarily coming in.

[00:40:30] I file, I people are not gonna just voluntarily come tell you what they have for net assets and provide documentation. Um, . But if we increase it, then that's a qu I that's a known number that we could look at to budget. So Bridget, what do you have to do to get that known number? Because for us to say, well, we don't know.

[00:40:48] That's not a no, no, no, no number. No. So we know what was there, 104, find that out. Mm-hmm. , there was 104. So we know that there was ba and we looked at the last few years, and it's around 104. So if you were to in anything that you were to increase above the 1 75, then that's a known amount that I know that I, the difference I have to budget the expenditure for.

[00:41:07] That's what I'm saying. But as far as pe the people's net worth, that is such an unknown for us that we don't even have the, we don't have the data to even know like what the whole city of fall rivers, I mean, you get, when you get like the equalized net values by, from the state, but it's not broken down by like, how many people are in this, how many people are in that, how, I mean, even the census, when they do the census, they don't ask you how much you make and, and all that information.

[00:41:30] Correct. Correct. And I, I mean, the, and DOR is not gonna gimme p even if they were to give me, which I don't think they will. pe. That's only on their income limits, what they file with their taxes. I have, somebody could be low in like low income, but ha actually own a lot, have a lot of assets, you know, and especially if they, but in 41 we don't get any of that money back from the state.

[00:41:51] Correct. Reimbursement, no reimbursement at all. But on 17 D we'd get back reimbursement. Just the one again? It's the 1 75. Okay. I mean we do, we hand out more [00:42:00] exemptions than we get back in reimbursements. So we hand out like four hundred and thirty, eighty one, almost $500,000 and we only get back two hundred and twenty sixty eight.

[00:42:08] 2 68. So I'm just again, so I mean if you, whatever you wanted to look at, we could, we could look at if you increase the actual dollar value of the exemption, that's a known quantity that. based it on historical information. But as far as raising the limits, and I, and I, and I feel what you're saying, it's just that is such an unknown and we don't have those metrics to even try to give you the information you'd want.

[00:42:33] Well, we're, we're trying. I don't know. We, I am trying to look at something that is gonna help the elderly out there because maybe because I'm elderly, a lot of the elderly call me and I can understand what it's like to live on a pension, et cetera. Yeah. And what else can we do? I mean, I did put in a resolution.

[00:42:50] This, um, this meeting. It'll come up later about the work program and you know, there's a liability. Come on, I can sign a waiver of liability. You know, we need people to Well, you can't on worker's comp, so not worker comp. Yeah, yeah. It goes against our workers'. You need workers comp. Yeah. So what they do is then they'll take those, cuz we have to actually give them a 10 99 and then they actually.

[00:43:12] When you get at a worker's comp, you have to provide the audit. They go through all your W two s and your 10 99 s and certain 10 99 s get added into your workers' comp liability. That would cost, that's raises our insurance. Well, we're self-insured. Well, maybe it wouldn't, it's always like when we wanna do something, there's always 10 ways of why we can't do this.

[00:43:29] It raises this rather than five ways of how we can get this done. That's No, no, I can, I mean we can provide you numbers and what the expense is gonna be and what you know to include in the budget. That's, we can do that. I just can't say like as far as raising like income or net worth limits. Um, but again, we can provide you with the expense would be, that's added to the budget.

[00:43:50] I'd like you to go back and tell me this is something that we can do that's doable, that's feasible to provide to senior citizens that live within the community or surviving spouses. Mm-hmm. , I mean the veterans one, I think they're pretty much taken care of. I some places we give a thousand other communities give 1500.

[00:44:08] Cuz I've looked at that. Do we up that if you are. if it's a gold star family or a hundred percent disabled vet. So not every veteran would get it, um, legally blind. I, you know, most of them get it. But I, I just hope that you could come back to us mm-hmm. and say, this is what we can do for the seniors and surviving spouses of our community.

[00:44:30] Give me something. And you'll, are you looking for something for, to try to put input into the FY 23 budget, or are you looking for the, as we're building the 24 budget, as you're building this budget, let us know what we can do. Okay. For seniors? Yeah. 24. I just wanna make sure. Yeah, yeah. Okay. But I just think that it would be a good thing for us to do because I think seniors are really struggling and, you know, again, if you wanna go through, I don't know if my colleagues have any further questions.

[00:44:58] If you just wanna go through this, [00:45:00] um, Mr. Gonzalez on what the exemptions are. and the phone number or, yeah. Well, I can, uh, what I'll do is I'll list the phone number at the end. Yeah. But again, we give 17 d Surviv, I yield Mr. President. Thank you counsel. Ancy too. Yeah. My first question is, of the 500,000 that you put aside every year for errors, have you ever ma uh, met that limit?

[00:45:25] Or have you always been under? We've been close. Yeah, we've been close. You never know. So when we budget, so when we are going through the, to get our tax rate certified and we're doing, we, we look at that and we talk to the attorneys and we look at what cases are around, and then we budget to try to be reasonable about it.

[00:45:45] So we don't have this huge budget of overlay and then turn it back every year. But that's not what happens. No. So, and that, so that overlay includes those abatements and those are, there's varying reasons for those, and it includes all of these exemptions. Mm-hmm. . Um, secondly, I'm a little confused how a rebate or a deduction in, or a, um, how it translates into income.

[00:46:15] And if people get a $500, a thousand dollars abatement, it's added to their taxes. Can you explain that? So that's the state, like state and federal government, it's considered income. So essentially they're working and it's in lieu of, so instead of giving them cash, it's in lieu of, so, can I clarify something?

[00:46:32] Yeah. So are, are you talking about the work off program? Yeah. Okay. So the work off program in, for whoever's listening or wants to look it up, uh, chapter 59, section five N is what it is. Um, so it's veterans and seniors. Um, they can work up to 100 hours at $15 an hour, so, or whatever the statutory minimum wage is at the time.

[00:46:52] And right now, the way the statute is written, it's 15. Um, and get an abatement, or I'm sorry, get. , yeah. Get an abatement up to $1,500. Um, however, specific to that statute, not any of the other stuff specific just to, to five N is, uh, it says it's attributable as income. Um, and also while the person is working for the municipality that is doing the offset, um, their, uh, their, uh, their work time is subject to, uh, unemployment insurance.

[00:47:25] Um, so those are the only two, um, sort of caveats there. I think they're a little unusual with regard to some of the other exemptions, uh, but in that particular situation is considered income. Okay. And my only other comment is, um, um, listening to the this, and I'm listening, uh, to how for forever people have been getting $500, you've basically been taking people at their word for a hundred years on, on the value of their assets and their income.

[00:47:53] But it's only becomes an issue for gonna guarantee not word. No, no, no, no, no. They have to provide. No, I understand that. But what she's saying, I [00:48:00] understand that. But the comment was we don't know if they're telling the truth or not. Maybe they have assets they're telling us about. Said, what I said was is that to, if you were looking at raising those limits, we don't have the information for the entire city of Fall River, what their income limit, like what they own, what their net worth is.

[00:48:16] Right. So you have to rely on the person submitting the application. Who's telling you, these are my assets. Yeah, but they have to provide documentation with that documentation. We need social security, we need the copies of the bank statements. We need, um, any pensions that they have. And then what we require is CDs and stocks.

[00:48:34] We want to see 'em. Mm-hmm. , if you don't provide 'em, we don't, we don't grant them. So then raising the limit, that shouldn't be an issue. Right. I was understanding it as being an issue. So it shouldn't be an issue if they have to provide the documentation. Yes. But if you raise the limit, now you're increasing.

[00:48:50] Who's eligible? Who's eligible, right. So what? I don't know. So what, so, so I wouldn't even be able to budget a liability because you could end up with 200 more people eligible. So we, we, the people who apply counsel Yes. The people who apply, we, we know what their assets are. Cause they tell us. Right. They have to.

[00:49:06] Right. What we're saying is that if we were to raise that asset limit, we don't really know one way or the other whether that's gonna significantly increase the number of people who apply or don't, who would be eligible. Because I think the perception certainly in the assessor's office is that, um, our taxpayers, you know, self-educate probably more than we even realize.

[00:49:25] And then self-select themselves out and say, geez, I'm not eligible for this. I'm not gonna apply for it. Mm-hmm. . So we don't have a ton of people applying that aren't not eligible. But I think all we're saying is that if we arbitrarily increase the limit, we would then make an unknown number of people eligible.

[00:49:42] Correct. Potentially. And then what is the cost to the city for them? So it's not necessarily, we don't want do it, it's just that. , it's hard to know what it would cost. And I think it's a risk. That's all. I, I mean, so look, I'm so from a fiscal responsibility, I, how would, I wouldn't even know how to budget that because it's such an unknown.

[00:50:00] That's what we're saying. That's all. I mean, but if you were to increase the, the limit of the actual exemption, then I, that's a, a, a unknown, a known, because I can look at historical how many we have. So your preference or choice would be to only increase the amount of the abatement. I'm saying that's a known that I could Objection.

[00:50:21] Do the other, the exemption. The exemption, the other, what the other alternative is we would have to research, and I don't even know. I mean, we'd have to look at how would we get that information. It's not just out there in public information. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. With that I yield. Thank you. Thank you. Council seat four.

[00:50:40] Council Liberty. Thank you. Um, going back to what counselor in seat. Six was saying, uh, 17 d I just quickly looked up new Bedfords and they are paying $330, um, for a senior or surviving spouse. It's on their website. [00:51:00] And I noticed that their asset limit was also higher. Their asset limit is 67,000. Um, so you're saying it would be, um, for your budget, it would be easier to increase that?

[00:51:15] Well, it's not easier. It's a known, I don't it's a known, yeah. Um, and as far as the senior, the same if we were to make an increase there. Um, however, I do agree that these numbers are pretty ancient. Like counselor in C eight said a single person is, is 20,000, but if there's two of you, it's only 25. Um, I wouldn't, I understand that it's an unknown, but I don't think that council would, you know, be saying, well, let's, you know, double that.

[00:51:41] I think it would, you know, if we did it in a smaller increment, maybe we just moved the married to 30. Um, and if, if you could, I don't know if this council needs to, um, put in the form of a motion or if we talk about it at budget time, it obviously is, is too late for this year. We're already how many days into their, their three month deadline.

[00:52:01] And I wouldn't expect that that to happen for this year. But, um, going forward for next year, I think it, at the very least, if we, if we move that income maybe just a little bit and see what it does not, you know, maybe we just move it from 25,000 to 34 for two people. That's, that's not huge. I mean, I think it's fair to say that we could put something together to come back with and Sure.

[00:52:25] Cuz at, at three 30, right? Mm-hmm. , we were getting reimbursed 1 75, so that's $155. Mm-hmm. per taxpayer. We're not gonna, and I'm just using that cuz that's what you know. Yeah, no, it's, that's what they based on. It's a size so we cant reimburse the 1 75. Mm-hmm. , we only be, that means that we would be paying 61 55 per taxpayer.

[00:52:44] Mm-hmm. right. Times 16,000. Right. The total times a hundred and something taxpayers, it would cost the city about 16, 16, 2 16 2. Mm-hmm. and, and it would almost double what, what they would get. Yeah. And, and again, not to, sorry to interrupt, but like that's a known quantity that we can, I can give you and say this is what we expect.

[00:53:06] It makes sense. And, and I understand on, on the other, on the assets and the income. You don't know how many people that would open up to now. I have no idea qualify. Um, but if we just, you know, moved the needle a little bit on one of those. And so just to, um, I mean I did work in public accounting for 10 years.

[00:53:24] I mean, there's a lot of people that if they, you know, plan accordingly, will have, you know, higher assets as they get older. But they may not be drawing down income cuz they don't need it. Do you understand what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. , so like, they may not have, they're gonna do their minimum because they have other pieces.

[00:53:40] So, They, that's what I'm saying by you. They may have a higher net worth, but they have a lower income coming in cuz they don't, if they don't need it that year. So even the, the assets on a married that, you know, it's, it's 30,000, it's, it's not a lot. Um, but it does, and, and we also understand that there's a lot of folks [00:54:00] that just can't, that are not in a position to plan like that.

[00:54:02] So. Correct. Uh, we can take this back to the mayor, come back with some thoughts, um, and look at what, you know, we think the city can afford. Uh, as you said, we've got folks who have contributed their entire lives, both in their work lives and personal lives to the city. And it's worth at least having this conversation, I think it's important.

[00:54:20] Great. Um, I, I would suggest that we either, um, table it in finance just so it's not forgotten, um, council president or we send it to, uh, maybe youth and elder affairs. So just so it's, it's not forgotten. I, I agree. And I would, I will, I won't make any motion at this time. I, I yield. Thank you. Council seat seven.

[00:54:42] Council Poso. Yeah, so I'm, I'm actually gonna make that motion cuz I think we need to come back with some more information. Um, and also in my request as part of this Mr. Gonzal, is it possible to give us for possibly, cuz I know you've been around a bit the past 10 years, the amount of exemptions were granted and those amounts just, just to see how Yeah.

[00:55:02] Average. That's easy. That pot is easy. I can't tell you how many have been denied. No, no, I'm, but I can tell you at least that base, I wanna know how many exemptions were approved and what those amounts were in total. Yes, we can, we can, we can do that. It's on the, if if that information is on the DLS website, I can get it for you.

[00:55:20] Yeah. And then just, uh, like my earlier requests about comparisons to other gateway cities, which would be helpful in that, in that decision making. Um, so with that said, I'll make a motion to table cause if, if, if I. Council C four did not wanna make a motion. Taylor cuz other counselors have questions.

[00:55:35] You're gonna make a motion, Taylor, we're gonna deny them from asking any questions. I would just ask you hold off on a motion and let, there's two other counselors that wanna speak. Just let them get the questions answered. Then we can make that motion. Is that okay? Sure. Mr. President, thank you. No problem.

[00:55:48] You your counsel? I do. Thank you. Thank you. Council C a Council Washington. I just wanna clarify cuz I, I understood it like council on C two understood. What you said was that there was no way to verify people's asset limit. So I was gonna suggest, if there's no way to verify that, just take it off because it's a deterrent.

[00:56:03] But you are saying that's not what you're saying. That's not what's what I'm saying. Okay. So what you're saying is we, we verify all the asset limits. Yes. If they can't prove it, they're not going to receive the exemption from us. Okay. And, and let me say this. Um, I would say that if the council, if, if it's in their wishes to start to look at raising, then.

[00:56:32] Rather than do two at once, maybe do income and then one year see how that goes or two years and then maybe come back and do uh, assets. I think, I think that gives the administration and us an idea of the liability. I'm worried about the liability. I'm not so much worried about giving. I think seniors deserve what they get.

[00:56:58] I think veterans deserve what they [00:57:00] get. I just don't want to be in a situation where we make a decision and maybe we have a budget problem. Yeah. And the floodgates are opening. I do wanna say that, um, I do think we should open this and be able to open this up to more people. Now I understand you don't want the flood gates to open and put us in a financial.

[00:57:20] Burden later on. But I do have a problem with saying, yes, it's $500,000 for mistakes and you know, there's a hundred and something thousand for these seniors and, you know, we don't wanna open it up too much. That's a problem for me because, you know, you know, I just got a phone call the other day with someone that just barely falls outside of these limits that can't afford to pay their electricity bill and how, and how can they afford it?

[00:57:37] And, and they're outside of these guidelines, you know? So these are the problems that we're working with all the time. So I love your suggestion, Mr. Gonzalez. I think that that's a great idea in segments and see what the burden of that would be. So with that council president, I yielded, thank you council, council six council per you have follow up.

[00:57:55] I mean, sometimes you even have, um, people who aren't, uh, filling out income taxes anymore. When you get to a certain age, whatever you're exempt, you don't, so they're not gonna bring in their income tax statements because they don't fill 'em out anymore. So you only have to go buy pensions, whatever the pensions are, what they have in a bank.

[00:58:12] But one of the things that I would suggest and probably suggest to Mr at Atkins is that. , if you're gonna bring this to the administration, if we look at 41 with it being, um, you know, the $500 or or 71 d that may be, the legislature could change that. So that if it, if we did wanna do, do like New Bedford or other communities, I had read it was two 50.

[00:58:38] Council Liberty said New Bedford was three or three 30. So on 17 D maybe the legislature wants to increase that amount. That way we'd get the full reimbursement from the state. You know what I mean? I see what you're saying. Right now we only get 175. Yep. And we get 175 back from the state. So if, if the state raised it, but I, I think that that would be a good idea.

[00:59:02] And the other thing is, I really think that the amounts need to be changed because there's no way that, you know, somebody's gonna be making $15,000 more. Did you say we could change that, Mr. Gonzales on 41 say, , the married and single or that, that was by state? No, no. You can change, we can change that. That, uh, as, uh, councilor Lebo stated, uh, new Bedford raises raised their limits.

[00:59:28] So their city council approved higher numbers when, I don't know, but they, you guys have the, right, I mean, if you go over the, the bridge into Somerset, they, I believe there's a higher Yeah, they do. They give 1200. Yeah. And there's a higher, all right. You're gonna come back to us with more information on how, how we can get this done and give some kind of an incentive.

[00:59:53] You're gonna speak to the administration? We will come back with, with some feedback from the administration, yes. Okay. Some [01:00:00] proposals on what can we change to give more back to our seniors? If you could do that, I think the seniors of Fall River would appreciate that. Certainly. And honestly, when you talked about, what was it, 16.5 or $20,000 indifferent.

[01:00:15] On 17 that Mr. Gonzal said really 17, $20,000 in the budget the city has come on. Don't the seniors deserve it? I think they do. I think they do. So I think the mayor will concur with that. And I'm, I'm hopeful that you will come back with, um, some good news for this council. With that i u Mr. President. Hey council, maybe this body will file a resolution to ask the state legislators to raise their, uh, reimbursement.

[01:00:42] So maybe we could do that going forward as well. It'd be a good idea. Thank you. There'd be no further questions. Do you have a question? Council, c4, council Liberty, Mr. President? Can't we just, um, ask the clerk to send a letter to the state legislatures asking them to, we can, rather than filing the resolution or we could, we can send 'em a letter if that's not a problem.

[01:01:03] Okay, thank, that's why I said maybe we'll file a resolution. Maybe we'll send a letter. Maybe we'll call 'em up individually, but we'll get the message to him. I think it's a good idea. Uh, Debbie, no further questions. You motion the table? Do you wanna make a motion? Let we can. Council C seven. Wanna make that motion now?

[01:01:20] Sure. Thank you. Motion to the table in finance please. Second. Motion to table. Made it seconded. All in favor. Second. Aye. Aye. Motion. Casual. Opposed? Thank you very much. Motion to adjourn finance. Second. Motion to adjourn finance. And made a second. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Any oppose Motion. Carrie. Finance now adjourned.

[01:01:37] City councilman will begin in two minutes. Five minutes. Okay. Five minutes.

[01:01:45] Aye. The city councilman will come to order. Clerk will call the roll. Councilors. Kadeem. Deion. Here. Killby. Here. La. Liberty? Here. Pelletier. Here. Ferrera. Here. Raposo. Here. Washington. Here. President Camaro. Here may. Everyone in the council chair please rise for a moment to silent prayer.

[01:02:17] Please remain. Stand to the flag. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. And Clerk,

[01:02:36] oh, pursuant to the open meeting law, any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting, or may transmit this meeting to any medium. Attendees are therefore advised of such recordings or transmissions are being made, whether the perceived or perceived by those present and not deemed acknowledge and permissible.

[01:02:52] Madam Clerk, we have the mayor's request for confirmation of Reappointments To the Council on Aging we have [01:03:00] Carolyn Burton, Barbara Jean, Susan Rivero, and Lorraine Sherry. Motion to confirm Second. Motion to confirm is made and seconded. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye. Just a question on the motion Council in Seat two Council, Dean?

[01:03:15] Yeah. Is it, um, if, if nobody has any objections to any of the appointments or reappointments, can we take after number two, three through seven together? Motion make a motion to take second three through seven together. Why don't we wait till we get the council? Let's do number two first and then we'll go back.

[01:03:32] Right? Right. Now we're on one. Let's just get this one done. Let's do two and then we can make that motion on three. Detective three through seven. Motion hasn't made and seconded or in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion Counties? Madam Clerk, please do number two. Yes. Item number two is the Mayor's. Um, notice to the, to the city council that the housing authority has, um, selected Joanne Bentley to serve as their designee on the Community Preservation Committee.

[01:04:03] Sustain a motion, accept and place on file. Motion. Motion accepted and place on file. Motions are made and seconded. All in favor? Aye. Aye. And the opposed and clerk. Motion to take three through six. Together. Second. Second. Motion to take items three through item six. I mean seven. I'm sorry, through seven.

[01:04:21] Item three through item seven has been made to take it together. Second and second. It all in favor? Ler, can you read items 3, 2, 7, please? Sure. Uh, we have the request for the reappointment of John Frank III to the Board of Appeals, the reappointment of Richard Suza to the Sewer Commission, the reappointment of Elizabeth Andre to the planning Board, the appointment of Eric Kelly to the Board of Appeals.

[01:04:51] This is a new appointment, the appointment of Joan Mello and Joyce Landry to the Council on Aging. Those are also new appointments to move Elizabeth Landry. Motion to approve. Second. Second. Motion to approve. Item three through seven has been made and seconded. All in favor, aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion counties.

[01:05:14] Item number eight is the mayor's communication and three orders. The first is to create a stabilization fund to be called the opioid Settlement Receipts. Stabilization fund. Motion to adopt motion will be accept place off file. Um, would be to adopt, adopt mis communication as been made by council. Kby is that second?

[01:05:37] Second. Second. By council per All in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. We would need a roll call on this on the order to create roll call the um stabilization fund. Roll call on stabilization fund for items Mr. B two to adopt. Counselors Kaine, Dion? Yes. Kilby? Yep. [01:06:00] La Liberty? Yes. Pelletier? Yes.

[01:06:02] Perrera. Yes. Reposo, yes. Washington? Yes. And President Camara? Yes. The second order is that the sum of 931,000, excuse me, $931,039 and 86 cents be in the same as hereby appropriated to the opioid settlement receipts. Stabilization fund transfer from the opioid settlement in the General Fund. Motion to Adopt.

[01:06:29] Motion to adopt has been made. Is there a second? Second, second. Do on this as well? No. All in favor, aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. And the third order would be to accept the fourth paragraph of Mass General Law, chapter 40, section five B, which provides for the dedication without further appropriation of all or a percentage, not less than 25% of particular fees, charges, or receipt.

[01:07:00] To a stabilization fund established under Massachusetts General Laws Chapter 40, section five B to be effective for the fiscal year. Beginning on July 1st, 2023. Motion to Adopt. Motion to Adopt has been made. Is there a second? Second by Council PE Made by Council Oppos. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed?

[01:07:21] Motion carries.

[01:07:46] Okay. Item number nine is the Mayor's communication. Um, and a the, uh, excuse me, the mayor and the Department of Community Utilities Water Division's Proposal. For Bristol County ARPA funding in the amount of $2 million for water front storm water corridor Project for Route 79. Motion to Adopt. Motion to be accepted.

[01:08:10] Second Mayor of communication on file. Approve the request as made by Council Perrera second and second by Council Washington. All in favor may Aye. Any opposed? Motion? Carrie call for that one quick or we gonna just No, just the motion counties.

[01:08:31] Item 10 is the communication from the mayor and the Department of Community Utilities Water Division's. Proposal for Bristol County ARPA. Funding in the amount of $3 million for the partial removal of 450. Lead service lines from curb stop two water meter for residential customers. Motion to Adopt.

[01:08:50] Motion to adopt the meeting Council. Oppos, or is that? Second? Second. Second. Council Washington. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion Carrie. Item [01:09:00] 11 is the mayor, uh, and assistant city auditor's request for the extension to submit the quarter two budget report to the council. Motion to reject.

[01:09:12] Do you, can you finish reading? Uh, sorry, Madam Clerk, can you finish reading? Yes. Um, the request was to submit the quarter two budget report to the city council in February. Motion to reject. Is there no talking on that? Is she doing Objection. She be, there's no second. She rejected it. She's is there no talking on that?

[01:09:38] Not until there's the second. Second on, on the motion counseling C two Counsel, Dean? Yeah. The reason I made the motion to object is we're already in the administration's already in violation of the trial. Excuse me. Your motion to reject or object? Reject. Okay. Um, the administration's already in violation of the charter section six dash a under, um, quarterly reports.

[01:10:05] That report was due today. So they're essentially asking for an extension after the deadline has already come and gone. And my other reason, um, it's about changing the format. I don't think there was anything wrong with the format. I'm not an IT expert, but I think we were all able to understand it.

[01:10:25] They've had three months to work on that. They have three months to work on it till the next one's due in April. It's only the format. The content is what's important. Having the numbers and where we're at is what's important. And those are the reasons I made the motion to reject. With that, I yield. Thank you Council.

[01:10:43] Council seat four. Council Liberty. Um, so I would, uh, agree with councilor in, in seat two. It was due today, so they should have put this request in at the last council meeting if, if they thought that it was going to be late. Um, and they could have given us this report and, and certainly changed the format, you know, three months from now on the next one.

[01:11:04] Uh, my concern is besides the fact that it, it's going against the charter and what's in there is what exactly are there changing? I feel like the administration over the past few years, um, and even Pryor has done a good job on making that quarterly report very easy to read and we're all very used to it.

[01:11:24] They have streamlined it. Um, so I guess my questions, and I'm not sure if Madame Clerk knows this, or if the city administrator knows what exactly are they changing in the format? I do not in the city administrator is still here. This I'll make a motion to waive the rules. Motion to waive the rules of immediate Four.

[01:11:42] A second. Second. Second. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion? Carrie? Set. Can you come please give an explanation as to why.[01:12:00]

[01:12:03] So I know that request initially came from the assistant city auditor, um, asking for a, um, actually, and this was January 19th that we received it. Um, I don't know when it was sent to the mayor though. Anyway, um, that they're updating the format. Do you know what exactly they're updating? Uh, from what I understand, they're just further streamlining the report.

[01:12:30] It, it's, you know, um, for them to, to crunch the, it's, it's really not three months. They have to prepare, right? I mean, once you have some of these numbers, you um, you crunch them down, you try to create the report. I think they're just trying to streamline the information so it's easier to digest. Um, you know, certainly, uh, you know, always available.

[01:12:52] I, I certainly could have checked into it if I had known. This was, uh, gonna be the question. I apologize. I don't have more information. Uh, I just know that they, um, alerted me at the end of last week. Uh, I was out most of the week sick, but they alerted me when I got back on Thursday or Friday that this was an issue.

[01:13:09] The communication went down. Um, and, uh, I, they were just asking for a couple of weeks, but I understand. So I guess, and then my other question is, um, it says that they'd be giving it to us in February, but it doesn't say which meeting in February. I know actually we only have council president. We only have one on the, we only have one that we voted on, correct?

[01:13:32] The 14th so far. Yeah, for February. The one, the lieutenants right. You We have two meetings in February. Okay. So I would, I know the dates have changed except for one in, uh, nine. So I would um, ask that they make sure that it's at the first meeting and, you know, in the future to tell us. Cuz it is, it, it is in the charter and it is a violation of the charter and.

[01:13:53] we all get our hands left. One, we don't, uh, follow the charter, so we would like the administration to do the same. With that I yield. Thank you. Council, council C Council, Washington, uh, did you say there was a communication went down? Is that what happened? I think this went down last week, or at least, you know, it was certainly between the two meetings, of course, but this went down last week when they realized that, um, uh, there was just, you know, a time issue, um, that they weren't anticipating.

[01:14:20] But I, I wish I had better information as to what it was. I, you know, um, I am always glad to check people call in, you know, before the, the meeting. I'm always glad to check on that and get as much information as I can. Yeah, it looks like it was received January 19th, probably right when that happened. It came down today, so, um, things happened.

[01:14:39] Um, so, okay. That a yield. Thank you. Council president. Thank you. Council, council. C six Council, Perra, you know, some of the concerns regarding these budget, the reports that we get, . Uh, and I was on the council when we voted to have quarterly reports come down, but in speaking with some of the department heads that they say, it takes so much [01:15:00] work and so much time to get these reports done, is it better to just do them twice a year instead of four times a year?

[01:15:09] So when you talk to them and find out why this is being submitted late, could you give us some information on that? Because honestly, to come down twice a year to me is fine. I mean, four times a year, I do think, and then we do the budget anyway. So to do it four times a year, I think becomes the point of information difficult for people becomes priorities in the charter.

[01:15:30] So that, right. But you can change whatever. You can legislatively change that. You can vote to change that. But I would just like to know what you're hearing from department heads relative to this. Um, what I'm hearing is that it is, oh, you have heard something? Oh, absolutely. It's a convers, it's a point of conversation, uh, several weeks before this is due in.

[01:15:48] um, each time, uh, that it is incredibly burdensome to do it, uh, four times a year. Um, but it is in the charter. So we, we do our best and I think for the most part, we've delivered on time. This is the first time we've asked for this, uh, in a number of quarters. Um, and, uh, we'll certainly try our best to get it to you as soon as possible.

[01:16:07] It has, um, I mean, we have gotten it and I agree. I mean, if it was here, we should have gotten this in the last meeting. If they were requesting to have it extended, not that it's due today and now you're asking to be extended. If we say no, what are you gonna do? Nothing . It's not a down thing you can do about it.

[01:16:24] So it's, but I just, I know that it's in the chatta, but the chatta, we can vote to change things too. I mean, this was one of, uh, former counselor Maya's, uh, resolutions was to have it four times a year and he was also on the charter commission and it was four times a year. But I think that we can change things like that too, if it makes it more difficult for people and.

[01:16:46] you know, you're taking people, we don't even have an auditor, so that makes it more difficult as well. But just sharing my thoughts with you on what I've heard from department heads in the city. I've heard the same thing. So that might be something you wanna look into with the law department and see if we can change that.

[01:17:01] With that I yield. Thank you. Can you come, come and see too? Yeah. Um, I have to disagree that this is the first time, but it doesn't matter first, second, third doesn't matter. I do know that, uh, the CFO prior, um, no matter what she had to do, we had our, our quarterly reports on time, four times a year. Um, so I don't know.

[01:17:27] I don't know. You know, we know it's four times a year. You know, you have three months for each report. Um, I get it can be difficult, but I mean, there are timelines we all have to live by that we sometimes feel like we're not gonna make. With that I yield. Thank you Council counsel, Liberty. So, um, the letter, it says they're gonna provide a more meaningful report with additional input from departments.

[01:17:56] So are they making it even harder? No, I [01:18:00] think the more meaningful is, is streamlined the information so that it's, it's more readily read. Understood. Has the information in it that we, that we need and not extra stuff. That may not be hard to say exactly what it is, but I know they've been talking about this for quite some time, that each time we put out a quarterly report, there's conversation about, okay, do we need this?

[01:18:19] Is it the best representation of the numbers? Does it help somebody understand the numbers as easily as we'd like? And, and I think there's just a constant reevaluation of how to do this as, as well as possible to present the information as accurately as possible. I, I have to disagree with having an only choice a year, only because if, you know, if the fire department, I'll just use them as an example.

[01:18:39] If we could see. , you know, something over an awry with overtime or, or a specific department where something's going. Um, you know, not, when we look at the percentages and, and it's going south, I think then we get to have a conversation out about it sooner rather than later. Um, so I wouldn't wanna see it changed, um, if it can be more meaningful or easier to understand.

[01:19:05] I know we did historically it was the first meeting after the quarter. We did change it to the second meeting after the quarter to, to allow, um, four more time. Um, but I would like to see it come down at the four February 14th meeting. With that, I yield. Thank you Counsel. , can you come to the for me please?

[01:19:43] Council President Kamara. Thank you, Seth. I do have to say I'm a little disappointed because thinking about it, the former treasury, former CEO is Shardi. She did have these numbers down and we were never late. We were always up to date on everything and I don't want that to get away from us. And now we're talking about twice a year.

[01:20:02] And with all respect to half my council vice president, I agree with my colleagues who say we should do this more often, not less often, because we should be like looking at these numbers monthly. Quite frankly. Not to give a report to the council monthly, but the department that should be looking at their numbers monthly to make sure that they're in step with the budget, because time goes by quick.

[01:20:19] If we had twice a year, it doesn't mean that it wouldn't be delayed twice a year. You're gonna look at the same numbers. It's just you're gonna look at it at the end of the year. At the end of that, every six months. So it, the, the work, if you're doing it every day and all these departments, I know they're working very hard.

[01:20:35] I understand it, but it was getting done before and now it seems like it's not getting done and it's not the first time it's happened since I've been here. So I think we need to stay on top of it cuz it's crucial, it's important. People, we make a lot of decisions based on where we're at throughout the budget and they should be looking at it more frequently.

[01:20:52] And if it takes a little bit more time, um, from the current treasurer, she needs to, I mean, put in the more time [01:21:00] to make sure it gets done accurately. If there has to be more conversation between her and department heads, they need to take place sooner. It, it, we do know it's coming three months from now, the next one and then the next one after that.

[01:21:10] So this should be done on a regular basis. Do we, we we have monthly meetings, correct? There are monthly meetings with every department. Between the cfo, I attend most of the Right. So we should just get up to base on how they're doing overall that if she couldn't put the entire package together. All right.

[01:21:24] And I appreciate she's gonna do it differently and, and better. And as my colleague pointed out, that's probably gonna cause more work for some department to put together. Give us what you have and then we'll go from there. But I don't want to not see any numbers. And, and I understand it's only a week or two or three behind, but we, I think the sooner the better.

[01:21:42] And I'd like to see him, you know, running on time because it's just, it's frustrating for everybody. We're trying to, every dollar matters. Every department head is, has a lot of things going on. And I don't think we should be, I certainly getting scared and we say we should be doing this, you know, twice a year instead of four times a year.

[01:21:58] Because department heads to find it to be too much work. They were doing it before and, and they're very capable, um, for the new ones that took place that weren't here before, something they're just gonna have to get used to. But I think we should look at this stuff, uh, on a regular basis. That's all I wanna say.

[01:22:11] I just wanna make myself perfectly clear. Understood. And some, you know, I, I respect everyone that's putting this together. I just don't like to be delayed by it because it affects a lot of different people, a lot of different ways. and it was getting done before in a time of fashion. So I just wanna make sure that it's not, it's not impossible.

[01:22:27] It might be a little tougher on some times of the year. I understand that. But it was, it was, it was happening before for many years. Thank you so much. That are you, you young councilman? Seat number two? Council Deion. Yeah. I, I, I just wanna reiterate, you know, it, it, it's not a case that you're sitting here telling us people don't have the information.

[01:22:45] People don't have the numbers. People don't have a handle on what's going on in their departments. It's a request based on a format. Um, and I get it. Even if we vote yes to reject it, I, I'm sure everybody's not going to. I am. Um, it's not gonna change it. Hopefully next meeting we'll have the report, but I think we just, um, as council president stated it, it needs to be done and, and you know, it's always been done in the past, so I'm just a little disappointed, frankly, with that, I yield.

[01:23:18] Thank you, counselor. Debbie, no further questions. Thank you very much, Seth. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it.

[01:23:27] Motion to reject hazard made and seconded. Roll call

[01:23:37] on the motion to reject counsel's. Kadeem Dion. Yes. Kilby. No. La Liberty? Yes. Peir? No. Perrera? Yes. Proposal? Yes. Washington? No. And President Kamara. No. Motion does not carry.[01:24:00]

[01:24:05] Is there another motion? Motion to adopt. Motion to adopt is made. Second. Second. Vocal. Vocal. What is this? I missed you. Motion to adopt instead of reject. Motion to adopt the reject? No, the reject did not pass. So we're gonna make another motion is now to adopt. Okay. Roll call. Motion to adopt and authorize the extension Counsel, Kade Dionne Object and

[01:24:45] Committee on Human Services Housing, youth and Elder Affairs. At a meeting held on January 17th, voted unanimously to recommend that the accompanying proposed resolution be granted leave to withdraw most To adopt this withdraw state, this is the resolution to discuss, um, access on housing and HO homelessness with community, local community organizations.

[01:25:09] Second motion. Motion Leave to withdraw to grant. Leave to withdraw has been made And seconded. Yep. All in favor? Aye. Motion carries. Any opposed? Motion carries. Committee on Human Services, housing, youth and Elder Affairs at a meeting held on January 17th voted unanimously to recommend that the accompanying resolution be referred to the Committee on Finance.

[01:25:33] This resolution relates to the, um, request that the administration present needs of city parks and Leagues. Referred to finance. Yes. Motion. Motion Refer to finance. Second. Motion has to remained seconded on the motion you wanna speak counsel? Yes. Just just to request Mr. President if we could possibly put this on the soon coming agenda.

[01:25:58] Um, and possibly if the clerk will they have enough time to do it before next meeting. Either the 14th or the meeting that we'll hopefully approve later on. Um, it's cuz we'll also request the park board come down and join us. So if we can coordinate that with them. Yeah. I just don't want to put this on the next agenda and not give them it's.

[01:26:17] Probably, you know, not I'll, I'll leave that up to schedules obviously. Okay. If we have need the park board down here's gonna require that. So, we'll, we'll, we'll, I'll put it forward as quick as possible. You, I appreciate that. I yield. Thank you counsel. No problem.

[01:26:31] Motion to remain in second. And all in favor, aye. Aye. Aye. Any the opposed. Motion carries. Committee on Regulations at a meeting held on January 17th voted unanimously to recommend that the accompanying order be adopted. This is the transfer of an order repair shop license from Jose Barrow to Mario LoRa at eight 30 Globe Street.

[01:26:51] Motion to adopt. Second. Motion to adopt is made and seconded or in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. [01:27:00] Whereas Veterans Memorial Bicentennial Park is the location of both the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Wall as well as an exact replica of, of the IMA Monument. And whereas this park also contains many memorial sculptures in honor and remembrance of veterans throughout American history.

[01:27:17] And hosts multiple ceremonies and tributes year round. And where is the location of Veterans Memorial? Bicentennial Park provides ease of access to many other public historical attractions, such as Battleship Cove and Full River Herd State Park. And whereas Veterans Memorial Bicentennial Park provides preservation of American history, valuable education to residents and visitors, and distinguished memorials to those who served our nation.

[01:27:45] Now therefore be resolved that the City Council and Administration request that Congressman Jake Aen clauses Senator Elizabeth Warren and Senator Edward j Markey initiate whatever action is necessary to include the Veterans Memorial Bicentennial Park within the Federal Historic Parks Registry. There Motion to Adopt Resolution.

[01:28:05] Motion to. Second and second on the motion sponsor resolution Council, C six Council, vice President Perro. Um, just quickly to add that I have spoken to the administration about it. There is a form that you need to fill out, um, and it takes a couple of years for this to happen, but it would help us being on the, uh, national register.

[01:28:25] And also, um, we, I've sent out a letter. If this passes, I will send written out or perhaps the clerk can to all of our state delegation and our state senator from this area so that they can also submit letters, um, to Senator Warren and Senator, uh, Markie to push this through. And anybody else that wants to send letters, if you give 'em to me, I'll make sure they get in the right hands.

[01:28:51] See if we can get this done. Does take a while though. And the mayor as aware of it without I yield. Thank you. Thank you. Counseling motion has remain and seconded. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. Whereas the Commonwealth of Massachusetts tax work off programs are available to senior citizens, 60 years of age or older, and to veterans regardless of age, who own property and select cities and towns in the Commonwealth and pay real estate taxes.

[01:29:19] And whereas there are many parks and organizations that could utilize the employment of senior citizens and veterans within the city, and whereas the cost of living has increased and placed a larger financial burden on all residents, especially senior citizens and veterans. And whereas property tax credits would greatly assist these eligible residents now therefore be it resolved that the administration of representative from the Department of Veterans Services and a representative from the city assessor's office provide information on the city's estimated cost to participate in this program and determine if it is a feasible option to provide financial relief to eligible residents.

[01:29:57] Motion to Adopt. Motion to adopt the resolution has been [01:30:00] made. Is a second. Second, and seconded. On the Resolution Council C six Council, vice President, sponsor resolution prior. I mean, I think it's pretty self-explanatory, and I know Mr. Gonzal had some concerns about this, so some additions on this. If we could look and see if it is on the books, why aren't we utilizing it?

[01:30:18] People don't know about it. If it's not on the books, then what would the cost be to have people utilizing this service with without a yield? Thank you. Thank you, counsel. Motion has remained seconded. All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Motion count. Item 17 is Mass Electric Company's request for the new poll in front of 1 43 Guild.

[01:30:40] Motion to redirect Motion further hearing from earlier public records. Transportation. Transportation Motion for the Committee on Public Records Transportation has been made and seconded on favor i Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. We have an application for the renewal of an Auto Body Shop license at 4 21 third Street.

[01:30:59] Motion to approve. Second, motion to adopt has been made and seconded or in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. We have an application for an auto repair shop license located at 3 26 Pleasant Street. Motion to Adopt. Motion to Adopt has been made there. Second. Second. Second. And seconded. All in favor, aye.

[01:31:20] Aye. Any opposed? Motion carried. Item 20 is a request for the revocation of an auto-repair shop license at the request of the owner

[01:31:33] motion to adopt as a remain seconded. All in favor, aye. Aye. And the opposed motion carries. Have the police chief's report motion accept on file. Motion to adopt the chief's report as remain. Is there Second. Second, and second. And all in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion Counties. Item 22 is the, um, city council meetings for the remainder of the year.

[01:31:56] Motion to approve. Second motion for city councilman from the end of the year hasn't made. And second on the motion Council seven council po. Yeah, I'm, I'm just gonna be that guy. Like I said last year, I'm just, I guess I'm confused why we break from the second and fourth Tuesday of the month. So usually it's an ordinance.

[01:32:12] Usually a counselor has a scheduled, a pre-scheduled event that they can't make in this case. Cons, Perrera has a schedule that she can't make on the one that was changed. So courtesy to a counselor is not uncommon to do it well in advance when we set the meetings. That's why we have the acceptance of the meetings.

[01:32:27] So where we can make any changes like that, get away from the ordinance. Um, other than that, I think it's just is the only meeting that's been changed. So co co courtesy to a colleague is what we do. We don't have to support it. We can deny it or we can approve it whenever you like. Not everyone has to vote for it, but it's been a tradition that's been done in this council.

[01:32:42] Madam Clerk, for how many years? Numerous. I hope Council Burman enjoys your vacation. . Thank you Council for quite some time. That's all you wanna make the point. Aye. Yield. Thank you. Thank you. Counsel. We never know when we're [01:33:00] gonna have to miss a meeting. And if you know well in advance, it's custom made to let the president know we put it on there and if it passes, it passes.

[01:33:05] If it doesn't, then it doesn't happen. Fair enough, sir. Thank you. Motion has been made and seconded to adopt. All in favor, aye. Aye. Any opposed? Seat seven. Council, oppos or opposed?

[01:33:20] Item 23 is a claim. Refer to cooperation counsel. Second. Motion further to cooperation. Counsel. Remain second. All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. Item 24 is a letter from school committee member Kevin Agk regarding school committee Members's Compensation. Accept and place on file. Motion accept and place on file has been made.

[01:33:50] Are we accepted and placing on file? That's it. Okay. Motion accept and placed on file is are made. Is that a second?

[01:33:59] I need a second form discussion. Any second? Second to discuss And second. Competency three. Council, KBY. I, I, I just think this is worthy of discussion. Um, served on the scope committee for 10 years. Um, they were just as hot, if not hotter than this council with the issues that they deal with. Be it collaborative bargaining or, I'm sorry.

[01:34:21] Um, impact bargaining, collaborative bargaining, bargaining with multiple unions. Um, the issues face in our school department. Uh, the meetings go long into the night. Executive sessions at times, uh, go brutally long. Um, and I think they're elected just like we are. And, um, I think it's worthy of, um, some discussion with regard to this.

[01:34:47] And I, uh, I, we, I think we had the motion already had a loan. Someone wants to withdraw, but I'd like this to be discussed in finance. Excuse me. Ordinance. Oh, ordinance. I'm sorry. That's where it should go. Yeah. So I know it was made in seconded of someone. So withdraw that motion. I think it's definitely something that should be discussed.

[01:35:09] I think there should be parody among, um, among elected officials. Do we get state rep salaries? And, and one other thing too, I think if we want some very compensation has to do in terms of the time you put in and the, and the burden and, and if we are, um, if we want to attract, uh, candidates for office that are more educationally qualified.

[01:35:34] Not saying that the individual on there are not, but um, I think it's a very worthy thing to do in terms of fairness and parody with salaries. I yield. Thank you Counsel said my peace Come to C Council Washington. Um, I read that letter and I have a lot of respect. Um, For the school committee, but asking for a hundred percent increase, um, all at once is a lot.

[01:35:58] When we're [01:36:00] negotiating increases for our first responders, 2%, 3%. Um, we just sat here and we're talking about giving our senior citizens like more than, you know, $500. I think that that's a lot to just, um, ask for a hundred percent increase in your salary. I mean, all at once. I, it just doesn't sit well with me.

[01:36:20] Um, right now I think that that's a big ask. Um, I'd be curious to see, um, what the other school committee members say if they're all on board with that. Um, that, that that's a big ask, a hundred percent increase, um, when we're trying to get money for our senior citizens. So, um, not a 50% increase, not a 30% increase, a hundred percent increase.

[01:36:43] So that's a lot. I don't disagree with the work that they do. They do a lot of work. Um, , but you know, they took that position knowing what it paid. And so, you know, a year into asking for a hundred percent increases, that's a, that's a big gift. So without a Yale Council President, thank you. Yale Council, council C6 Council per, you know, the one thing that concerns me is that back in the nine seat cuts, when, uh, Bob Career, the first career was here, uh, we as a council voted not to take the cost of living increase anymore.

[01:37:13] And I don't think that the school department took cost of living. Did they take cost of living or They don't have it either. So maybe this is an issue that for us to bring it to ordinance and for us to make a decision of the school department to make a decision, I think there probably should be a committee to look at this and make a decision of what they think other communities nearby get the salaries.

[01:37:33] I agree that some people would take this job because they got medical insurance. Now you don't get any medical insurance anymore. But some people would do it because, oh, well it was a way to get insurance. I think there's only one or two people here now that get it. I had never gotten it because I always had it with, you know, lose job.

[01:37:51] Um, but that was an incentive for some people. And I think Council Kilby brings up a good point that there are some people who feel, gee, I do it, but for that amount of money it's not worth it. It's a headache. But I don't think that we should be determining that. I think let the MIA put a few people together and figure out what other communities are getting and bring something down as what's fair and equitable for both the school committee side and the council side.

[01:38:13] With that I yield. Thank you Council, council C four Council Liberty? Yeah, I would agree that it definitely deserves more conversation for all of the reasons given. Um, and I would support sending this to the Committee on ordinance for that to happen. Cuz if there's a change that's going to be made, that's where it's going to be made that yield.

[01:38:31] Thank you Counsel. So the motion on the floor right now, count seat three. Council? Yes. Finally my only point was it's worthy of discussion. Mm-hmm. . So I, I would like it to see at least discussed a little bit further. . And I know as Council Washington said, it is a hundred percent raise, but I, what do they get paid?

[01:38:49] $6,000. I remember years ago it was a voluntary. Voluntary, right? Mm-hmm. , it was, it was no pay. Mm-hmm. . Um, but, um, I think it's, we, [01:39:00] we got a, a fellow elected official who was, um, you know, asking us at least to explore this and I think we should. So I yield, thank you counsel. Some select we only get $3,000. I just wanna point out that the school committee should take this up before they come to us as a body, not just one individual going on and making decisions for the entire body without the other body's consent.

[01:39:20] So I, I wasn't aware that that was the case. Well, that's, that's how I see it. That's how I understand it to be. Okay, Ariel. Thank you Mr. Pres. So the motion on the floor is to accept and place on file right now. Um, count C four, counsel? Yeah. Can you just clarify, did you say the rest of the school committee's Not, in my understanding is there's not been discussed between the school committee.

[01:39:40] It's not been discussed meeting. They, so we're gonna have discussion here without them having discussion there. I think they should have their discussion first, figure out what they want to do, then present it to the council. That would be the way that I would think that we should entertain it, not us jump the gun and circumvent their body because one individual reached out in the letter telling you he thinks he deserves more money.

[01:39:58] There are a lot of people in this community that are struggling, probably deserve more money, as we pointed out, through their taxation and other things. They're not getting it. And they're not showing, and we're not gonna send that to ordinance to take care of it right away. So he can want what he wants.

[01:40:10] And I respect Mr. Aguiar as much as anyone else here. And if they're working until midnight, that's whoever's running that meeting should take care of that. I'm sorry, we've And a culture Chambers as culture. Pte, myself and you, council Kby, how many times we've been here till after midnight. Yes. And we didn't turn around saying we need more.

[01:40:30] So I, I would agree with you. I would just say we, it can sit in ordinance until they have their conversation. Otherwise we gotta put it on the agenda again. Whatever. That's fine. I'm, I'm just saying let them do that thing and then come to us in the proper way. Not just send a letter to the mayor and send a letter to everybody else and see who wants to hold onto this.

[01:40:44] As I said, there's some, uh, legisla, there's some selectmen that make less than what they make and work an awful lot harder and they'll tell you their, their, their meetings till past midnight and they'll come back the next day sometimes, cuz it's, uh, delayed. But anyways, I don't, I don't, don't even get going in.

[01:41:00] I'll have to sit council privacy for another five hours if I wanna really get into it. Um, so the motion is right now to accept it and place it on file and the seconded on that motion roll call. Yeah. Let them work on it. Bring it back. Who made the original motion? Huh? Who made the original motion Council prayer.

[01:41:22] Did to accept it and place it on file. Do you wanna withdraw it so we can just forward it to ordinance? Why would I withdraw? On the motion to accept and place on file counselors Kadeem Dion. Yes. Kilby? No. La Liberty, no. Pelletier? Yes. P uh, Perrera? Yes. Proposal? No. Washington, no. Present. Camara? Yes. The motion fails.

[01:41:49] Is there another motion? Motion to send ordinance. Motion for the committee on ordinance as made. Is there a second? Can I ask a question? Not till we get a second council. Sorry. Second [01:42:00] motion to second council. Seat six. Council per, the only thing is if it goes to ordinance, we are dealing with it here in ordinance, and I think what the council president said is right.

[01:42:08] First refer it back to the school committee. This letter was written by one individual and not one of the other school committee Men or women to my knowledge, knew that this letter was coming forward. Let it go there. Let them discuss it. Let them think what they feel is a just salary, and then bring it to us and we can change.

[01:42:27] review the ordinance and change it, but I think let them discuss it first. So one of us write a letter to the school committee and say, Hey, we think we need more money. They should vote on that. No, that wouldn't happen. So I would amend my motion to say, uh, refer to the committee on ordinance and send a letter to the school committee.

[01:42:46] It can sit in ordinance until we hear back from them, until the chairman decides to have a meeting ordinance. I mean, there's things that have sat in committees for Correct. Until the chairman of the committee decide to, but I would add that we also send it as council pers point, send a letter to, to the school committee, um, asking for their full input on it.

[01:43:06] I would amend my, my, my second motion amendment Council, you still have the floor? Do you have, do you have a point of clarification, counsel? I do. So it didn't get sent to place on file That failed. Correct. That failed. So that means Simon, we're wide open again. We're wide open again. And the motion that count C four made.

[01:43:26] Was to refer it to the ordinance committee and with the stipulation that we send a letter to the school department, school committee members hoping that they take it up. Okay. In essence, we're gonna do the work for them that they haven't done yet. Yeah. And we're gonna make determinations in ordinance here.

[01:43:43] We, one member particularly that sent this letter, cuz I don't know if anyone else has been involved in that. It didn't come from the board, it just came from one individual. So I don't think that's, I don't know. It's not something that was the board, I think. Do you Council 66. You still have the floor? I just think that we should send it to the school committee.

[01:44:04] Send this a copy of this letter to the members of the school committee and then have them send us, submit something after they've met and decided what they wanna do. You counselor. Counselor council. Excuse me. Can we, no Side discussions. Council, do you? You? I do. Thank you. Council seat two. Council Dean. So.

[01:44:26] if, if it's sent to ordinance and a letter is sent to the school committee and within the body of that letter it is stated that it's been sent, it's being sent to ordinance, but no action will be taken in ordinance until they take action first. Would that work? What type of action are you taking? Are they gonna take, just gonna have a meeting that says we deserve a raise and send it back to us?

[01:44:48] Right. Well it's still in action. I mean, right now there's no action's that Exactly. So that's what I'm saying. We shouldn't send it to audience, just send it back to them and says, Hey, this is on you guys.[01:45:00]

[01:45:00] I don't wanna get too much deeper into this. So let's just take the votes necessary and whatever it is, it is motion on the floor right now is to send it to the honors committee and send a letter to the school department saying what? And take no action until we hear from them and take no action until we hear from what Councilman I I would agree with what consequence seat to said, okay, Madam Clerk, did you get that?

[01:45:24] Council two said yes. Wanted to send a letter to them, asking them to take action on this letter before it comes back to us, that no action will be taken until, until we hear from the members of the school committee. Mm-hmm. ? Yes. Sure they're not. That's fair. Just record raise on the motion. Roll call

[01:45:53] Counselors. Kaine. Counselor Dion. Yes. Kilby? Yes. La Liberty? Yes. Pelletier? Yes. Herrera? Yes. Raposo? Yes. Washington? Yes. And President? No.

[01:46:13] Item 25 are minutes of the planning board. Motion. Accept. Motion minutes. Motion to accept and please made. And second. All in favor? Aye. . Any opposed? Motion carries. Motion to take 26 through 31 together. Second. Motion to take items 26 2 31 together has been made and seconded on the motion. All in favor? Aye.

[01:46:39] Any opposed? The motion carries. Ma'am, can you read 26 2 31 please? Yes. Yes. We have city council minutes. We have the public hearing held on December 27th, committee on Finance on December 27th, the regular meeting of the city council on December 27th. The special meeting held on January 3rd, 2023 and the City Council Committee on Finance on January 10th and the regular meeting of the city council on January 10th.

[01:47:08] Motion to adopt motion. Second. Motion to adopt items 26 through 31. Hasn't made and seconded. All in favor, aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. And the last item that we have is an open meeting law complaint filed by Patrick Higgins. Um, motion Cooperation Council. Second. Motion Further. The Corporation Council has been made in seconded.

[01:47:31] All in favor, aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion? Aye. That's all we have. Motion to adjourn. Motion to adjourn has been made and seconded or in favor? Aye. Aye. Is anyone opposed? Motion? Yeah. I wanna stay on midnight Motions. Very good job, Mr. President. Thank you. Thank you all did a very good job. Tonight

[01:47:54] is.