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The HotelTechInsider podcast interviews the top leaders at the convergence of hotels, travel and technology. Guests include founders, executives, top hoteliers and industry organization leadership. Find all of the episodes at hoteltechreport.com
And this was such, like, a foreign concept to them because, like, we're stuck so much behind all these systems and all these processes. Like, no. Now you can actually step away, talk to them, actually ask them why they're here, really improve that guest experience.
Speaker 2:From Hotel Tech Report, it's Hotel Tech Insider, a show about the future of hotels and the technology that powers them.
Speaker 3:Today, we're talking with Josh Edwards, the operating systems manager at Penta Hotels. The brand manages 14 hotels across Europe, and Josh just led a huge project in which he and his team upgraded the most critical operational software. Penta is saving over one hundred thousand hours per year on payment processing, and a quarter of their guests now purchase upsells. There's a lot to unpack in this episode, so let's get started. Welcome to the show, Josh.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much for being on with us. To get things started, I would love for you to introduce yourself, tell us a bit about your role, and the company you work for.
Speaker 1:Firstly, thank you so much for having me. So, yeah, I'm the operating systems manager for Pent Hotels. We're a 14 hotel chain operating mainly across Europe with a hotel in Asia and a hotel in Russia, but primarily focused on the German market, a bit across Belgium and France. So for me specifically, I take care of everything with all the systems that we use day to day in the hotels. So when we think about property management systems, point of sale, key cards, payments, events management, all of those topics.
Speaker 1:But I also have a good wealth of experience in the hotels themselves, having managed the operation in one of our pet hotels we used to have in The UK, but also having the pleasure to work for Accor as sales management as well.
Speaker 3:As you mentioned to me before we started recording, you mentioned you've gone through some pretty significant changes in your tech stack recently. Would love for you to walk me through what you did and why you did it and how it went.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Sure. I mean, it gives me a bit of goosebumps thinking back how my last six months have looked. But yeah, sure. So we started this topic a good few years ago.
Speaker 1:We, as a hotel chain, had a legacy hotel tech stack, what we call a legacy hotel tech stack with, you know, on premise solutions, solutions that may not have been updated or are no longer supported. And we identified a need that, hey, we are an innovative company. We challenge everything. We're really good at tackling things and taking things on. We wanted to look at our tech stack, look at our guest experience, our guest journey, and basically wipe the slate clean and just do a whole refresh.
Speaker 1:We took our time with this. We planned it and tested some vendors and really gave some vendors some tough times for about three years. And then earlier this year, starting from the very conceptual stage, then sort of the planning stage from February through until the May, we actually did the full rollout of eight different systems. That for us obviously was a whole new property management system, point of sale, new payments, new events management. Yeah, crazy.
Speaker 3:It sounds like the decision was kind of percolating for some time. You knew that the current tech stack wasn't working well. You wanted an upgrade. Was there a specific point or like a tipping point where the team was like, we can't do this anymore? Or what was the impetus that made the change ultimately happen?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So the reason why we initially took so long is because we wanted to make sure we got it right. We challenged some vendors really, really toughly for quite a long time. And we were at points where we're like, maybe it should be this one, maybe it should be that one, because we were struggling to find what we felt was the, not the perfect solution, but the perfect solution for us. We knew the challenges that all of the vendors would have at that point.
Speaker 1:We knew what the key points they would offer and the key features they would offer. But it also got to the point where with our current provider for our property management system, we had a deadline where we had to get out of that system from a contractual perspective and end of life and all of this. So we got to a point where we knew we were comfortable. We challenged sufficiently enough everyone, and we felt that we were in the best place along with the time constraints to say that this would be the moment to move forward.
Speaker 3:Can you walk me through that consideration process for your PMS, for example? You knew you were in the market for a new PMS. How did you go about developing a shortlist of vendors? Did you do demos? What was that shopping process like?
Speaker 1:So I think going back to the initial drawing board, the one thing we looked at is we said we don't want this to be a one time transaction. We don't want to just pick a partner. We get it, and then that's all we get. The solution is what it is. It doesn't change.
Speaker 1:It doesn't evolve. We're stuck with what they offer and that's it. We wanted to make sure it was a dynamic ongoing process. We really wanted someone who was open. They were reliable.
Speaker 1:They were very good with ease of integrations. Because the problem with our legacy PMS providers, if you wanted to integrate something, you were waiting six months for availability just to actually implement something. And the process to implement it was also so technical. And also the fact that we are quite a shifting company as well. We come up with a lot of new concepts and trial under new things.
Speaker 1:We wanted to make sure we found a vendor that could shift with those alongside us at the same time. So we sort of searched for the market, who's sort of the ones leading. We, of course, had heard of Muse as a sort of up and comer going through the market. We had some sort of longer term stable, like Oracle with their Pro Cloud solution that had started growing a bit further, Stay In Touch and Apelio. And they all had sort of different, of course, features and quick wins.
Speaker 1:Apelio is a great example where it's a tech stack that's really good if you have really technical people in house. You know, they give you a great foundation. And then if you have the right developers and the right technical people inside, you can build and pretty much scale it to as far as you want because it is a base platform that is then open for you to just add in whatever you like Versus someone a bit bigger like Oracle with Opera Cloud, what we discovered is they kept the core concept of their product from their old Opera version five and obviously turned it into a cloud based version. What they decided to do was obviously keep what they knew works well as a product, not so much change like bold changes. They knew it works well.
Speaker 1:They knew they had a great customer base, but they kept that and built on it. Then of course, we had And Muse, we decided based on some good partnerships a few years ago, we decided to try a pilot hotel. I think when the hotel first opened in 2022, it was a new hotel, so we wanted to try something different there cause this conversation about our guest journey had started. So we knew Muse was this big up and coming. They were making bold changes.
Speaker 1:They were, you know, calling themselves the game changer of the industry for platforms. So we tried them and we tried demos with all of these people. We piloted Opera Cloud for a year. We piloted Muse for three years. But we also did extreme deep dives with Stay in Touch and Appelio as well.
Speaker 1:And yeah, so it really took us to go as deep as possible into all of these systems. We went through a really extensive RFP process. I think we had like 700, 800 points that they had to meet. It was really intense. And then, in the end, we rolled out with Muse earlier this year.
Speaker 3:What was it like getting internal buy in on the decision? Was there some pushback?
Speaker 1:Mixed emotions, I think. Some people who were heavily invested in the project, obviously, they knew the in-depth work we went into looking at all of the vendors. They knew how granular we went to see exactly can they meet our criteria and how much we had challenged these vendors back and forth. But maybe so much from a hotel perspective, they saw that we're going to make such a bold change and we're going to basically take out everything they know and love inside the hotels and basically give them everything new, all these new logins, all these new systems they have to learn. And of course, naturally for them, it's scary and it's like, hey, how are we going to do our daily jobs when we have no idea how to use these systems?
Speaker 1:So I think that was probably the biggest challenge from their perspective.
Speaker 3:And how did you overcome that challenge? How did you make the teams feel okay knowing that one day they would log in and everything would be new? How did you set them up for success?
Speaker 1:I mean, we had to earn their buy in. And I think the great example we set with that is there was only so much we could do leading up to it. We really explained the reasons, we showed them what we did and how we built up to it. But I think the biggest fact was that we came onto property like a lot of us. I think for the first property there was 25 of us from a partner and a central perspective on property just changing everything.
Speaker 1:The fact that we knew it and we knew exactly what it meant and what it could do and we had the experience also has us hoteliers, not just as a central office who decides everything. I think that definitely helps them think actually these guys know what they're doing. They know that they've picked something good, they can justify it. So maybe actually we can work with it. And we spent plenty of time on property helping them through that process and being like, hey, we can introduce you to this system.
Speaker 1:We're here to support you through that. We had the vendors supporting On Property through that as well.
Speaker 3:So as far as timeline, you mentioned the rollout started in February or so. What did the process look like over those couple months? Were you going from one hotel to another to implement?
Speaker 1:It was primarily driven by myself and my colleague, Aileen, who works with me. We were doing the configuration stage and the planning stage remotely with a few workshops in between. But the first property went live on March 26. And I think the last property went live on like May 19. So it was a really short timeline.
Speaker 1:And between us, we had to split 14 hotels. And it was very much like I would be on property for four days, come home for one day, focus on what the last final bits are missing for the next hotel, fly out the next day to the next hotel, work crazy hours, but I mean, we knew what to expect. Right? That's the nature of such a big change. It was so much fun.
Speaker 1:Like, looking back, we actually said, we miss it because there were so many of us on property that we don't necessarily get to spend too much time together because, we have a lot of remote workers across Europe. So to come together and work in such an intense environment and also have a lot of laughs at the same time, we miss it now.
Speaker 3:In the tech stack upgrade, it sounds like there were some operational changes. Can you talk about those changes? Things that aren't just a matter of software?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I think we didn't necessarily just want to focus on the guest journey and the guest experience, but also the staff experience. One of our biggest focuses was in our current tech stack, everything is so process driven that they are literally stood behind a screen thinking, oh, I have to click here. I have to do this. I have to read this, and I have to sign this.
Speaker 1:And what we wanted, we were like, how can we implement a tech stack that really reduces that manual intervention so that we can literally say, hey, guys, you can now step out behind the bar and the reception, which we have combined for our check-in areas, and stand with the guests because they have the technology in place that they can check themselves in or they're already checked in, and you can actually talk to them. And this was such like a foreign concept to them because, like, we're stuck so much behind all these systems and all these processes. Like, no. Now you can actually step away, talk to them, actually ask them why they're here, really improve that guest experience. And that was one of our biggest focuses.
Speaker 3:Have you seen in the data, has it reduced wait times? Like, is the check-in experience now faster?
Speaker 1:Not necessarily faster, but I think we're presenting more opportunity to the guests because it's very difficult when you're checking someone in to find the comfortable and appropriate time to start trying to upsell to them. Whereas with these kiosks with Muse, they have like a really seamless integration for room upgrades and just generic upsells as well. What we did see is so far we had some data with them recently. Actually, I think for those guests who selected upsells, which was around 25% of the guests last month, each of them would spend roughly, I think on average €23 per person on upsells, which I think equated to around 11% increase on the total revenue that it had already spent. So it was a huge game changer in terms of upsells.
Speaker 3:So we've talked a lot about the tech stack upgrade. I would love for you to walk me through what systems you're using now. What were those systems that were implemented?
Speaker 1:So we had a PMS change that was with Muse. So we were previously with Oracle on their Opera version five solution and transferred over to Muse for PMS. We also selected Muse for the point of sale and for Muse payments as well. We also then selected Dove as a guest experience platform. We then also decided to go with Think as our CRM and events management partner as well.
Speaker 1:And one system that we haven't changed yet but we are looking at potential opportunities is with sort of channel manager opportunities as well. So upselling, we were previously with Oki and we're currently testing those possibilities directly with Muse and also with Dove themselves as well.
Speaker 3:Are there also some systems that you did not upgrade, like revenue management system, for instance? Are you still using what you were using previously?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So we were using Duetto and we still are. That's a system we also have a great partnership with. And I think, again, that shift from having that legacy integration where if you try to communicate between that revenue management system and your PMS, you're waiting ten, fifteen, twenty minutes for something to happen. And then that shift where it's now instantaneous with this great API connectivity, it's really helped bolster that relationship there as well.
Speaker 3:Is there anything on your wish list? Any system that you don't use but you're considering in the future or even something that you've seen on the market that just seems really cool?
Speaker 1:I think one that I met at a recent event was Govindi. So they basically do a completely different way of thinking about inventory and guest personalization so that they don't just sell room categories like on your own booking engine, for example. They very much look at feature based inventory. So you don't have a room category or this is a standard room. You just have a room and all of its features included.
Speaker 1:So if I said I wanted specifically a quiet room in a corner that has a yoga mat inside that's looking at the ocean, I want that exact room. I don't want you to give me a room type that maybe has some of those features. And I'm lucky whether it gets selected for me or not. And I think that's really cool. We've not deep dived with them, but it's something we're definitely exploring.
Speaker 3:That part of your future proofing idea in your tech stack? Like thinking through how will you incorporate AI in the future? Or how will you incorporate things that are not even on the market yet? Thinking through how you have a flexible tech stack that will continue to serve you.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I mean, we internally are working on a project that we can't speak much about as it currently stands, but it's something that we'll be launching late twenty twenty six, early twenty twenty seven. And we can't just sit there and think, let's look at the vendors as they are now, but how do we want them shaped in two years? Because flexible the advancements of AI as they are now are so rapid. We're like, can we be bold and can we start asking for really bold things from them knowing that they've got two years to potentially look and develop these things?
Speaker 1:And so that was always the basis of our thinking, not only for the tech stack overhaul but obviously this big project that we're also working on.
Speaker 3:How if there's anything you can share on this topic, but how are you and your team using AI currently?
Speaker 1:So at the moment, not to its true advantage, like with from a guest experience perspective, we have great communication with the guests via instant messaging. And one of the benefits with Dove is that if a guest sends a message, you've got this initial layer of generative AI that knows everything about us as a company and at the hotel in specific and can answer those and respond to those. So we see a huge reduction in phone calls and emails from guests because they've got this layer already that can answer all of those questions. There's a lot more we can do, especially when we want to look at concepts like smart rooms, not just smart how it currently is by asking Alexa or Siri to turn on your lights and turn off your lights, but really like, hey, the system based on AI knows how you like your room, knows how you like your lights, knows if you like your blinds open or not, and can already set the room for you before you've even walked in the door. Have your favorite TV channel or movie playing and really like bold solutions like that.
Speaker 3:Just shifting gears a little bit, I'm curious based on your experience in the industry and your recent experience with this tech stack change, what would you say are one or two skills or characteristics that someone should have to be successful in the industry?
Speaker 1:I think one of the easiest ones is adaptability, right? You cannot have someone who has these legacy habits and thinks like, oh, it must only work this way because it worked this way for the last ten, twenty years. They need to be able to pivot during a system change or a system outage or a huge crunch in staffing numbers. We know across the industry it's so hard to get staff nowadays. And not only that, they need to have that mentality and ability to shift with the dynamics as they change.
Speaker 1:You know, guest needs are changing so much every day. You cannot have someone who's just so static in the way they think. And then not only that, it's very similar to what we speak about is they have to be digitally fluent as well. It probably was easier if we go back ten, fifteen years when you had these systems but you weren't so reliant on these systems. And they are getting more technical because there's so much more you can do with them.
Speaker 1:So everyone needs to have a really good digital knowledge to be able to really move forward as a hotelier, I think.
Speaker 3:How do you stay up to date on the latest in tech in general and tech specific to the hotel world?
Speaker 1:Hotel tech report. That's a great example. You know, just to pitch it in there. Very active, very active on LinkedIn and attending as many events as possible. Mean, we went to Muse Unfold in Amsterdam a couple of months ago.
Speaker 1:That was a fantastic event. Not just obviously not to sell it to Muse, but they don't pitch it as a Muse pitch event. They pitch it as a hospitality and a hotelier's come together. They spent so little time actually talking about Muse. I was like, is this actually an event for Muse or it's just hosted by them and you've got so many different partners there and so many people brought together.
Speaker 1:So there was so much I learned from that and so many people I met and spoke to that we gained so many different insights. So events like that really help as well, think.
Speaker 3:Well, last question, which sometimes leads to some hot takes. What is one thing you believe about technology in the hotel space that your peers or competitors might disagree with?
Speaker 1:Well, that's a good question. I think this may contradict what I've spoken about, especially when we talk about AI. But I think the industry is so rapidly focused on AI. They're like, let's AI drive everything, chatbots, smart rooms, predictive analytics, all of these things, that everyone's looking at AI as a tendency to replace humans rather than enable them. But what my belief is and what we focus on as a company as well is, well, some people try to, is that the tech really needs to support the human service.
Speaker 1:It cannot replace it. You know, what we want to achieve and one of our bold achievements that we're aiming for with this new project that we're working on is to have a tech stack that completely removes the manual element. So it's purely supporting the service that the service that they're providing to the guests is there's so much time to focus on it rather than it being completely driven and only driven by AI. I think it needs to be a careful balance of the two. I'm not saying AI should replace everything and do everything for us, but it just needs to support how we actually deliver the guest service.
Speaker 3:Well, before we wrap up, I want to open it up to you if there's anything else you want to share or anything else you wanna cover.
Speaker 1:The only thing I could say for any hotelier is that listen is if you are sitting there considering such a bold change and you're thinking, hey, I need to change a system, look at the bigger picture. Don't be afraid to change them all at once. It hurts and it's tough during it. And there's so many hours and mental thoughts committed to it, but it makes such a difference overall. Like, you can do so much more with it.
Speaker 1:And I think, you know, something as simple as saying, hey, I can automate all of my payments. You wouldn't even believe if you wrote down on paper, and I'd love for people to do this, how many minutes on average it takes to charge a card in your system. Times that by how many payments you've taken over a year and work out how many hours that your team are wasting on such a process like that. Find a system that does that for you and actually give your staff the time to focus on other things. You know, we're talking hundreds of thousands of hours.
Speaker 1:It's insane. So just say the people go for it.
Speaker 3:Do you know off the top of your head how many hours of payment processing your team needs?
Speaker 1:We looked at it and I think it was something crazy like one hundred and seventy five thousand hours across the portfolio, which was just, I mean, we calculate how many hours that is, how many people that is, like over a month. It's crazy numbers.
Speaker 3:Well, great data point to support making the move. So that's great advice. Thank you for sharing.
Speaker 1:No, you're welcome.
Speaker 3:Well, Josh, it was such a pleasure speaking with you. Thank you so much for sharing your experience, for sharing all this great advice with hoteliers that may be looking to make a similar change. So I really appreciate you taking the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Thank you for having me again. It was great.
Speaker 2:That's all for today's episode. Thanks for listening to Hotel Tech Insider produced by hoteltechreport.com. Our goal with this podcast is to show you how the best in the business are leveraging technology to grow their properties and outperform the concept by using innovative digital tools and strategies. I encourage all of our our listeners to go try at least one of these strategies or tools that you learned from today's episode. Successful digital transformation is all about consistent small experiments over a long period of time, so don't wait until tomorrow to try something new.
Speaker 2:Do you know a hotelier who would be great to feature on this show, or do you think that your story would bring a lot of value to our audience? Reach out to me directly on LinkedIn by searching for Jordan Hollander. For more episodes like this, follow Hotel Tech Insider on all major streaming platforms like Spotify and Apple Music.