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Join NABR in partnership with Corp! Magazine for our CEO & Executive Thought Leadership Series, where Jennifer Kluge sits down with C-Suite Leaders to get their insight and expertise.
NABR is a service organization igniting greatness in companies and their people.
00;00;00;06 - 00;00;29;09
Jennifer
All right. Hello, everyone. Welcome. Today's guest is Mark Conrad. He is a franchise owner of Express Employment Professionals out of the Houston Bay area. I know Mark from the Best and Brightest Companies to Work For in Houston. And he's also serves on the Texas board for the program. Mark is well versed in everything talent, and I have learned a lot from you over the years.
00;00;29;09 - 00;00;31;24
Jennifer
Mark, but welcome to the program.
00;00;31;26 - 00;00;34;11
Mark
So glad to be here. Glad to be here.
00;00;34;13 - 00;00;54;29
Jennifer
All right. Let's let's get into it. If you are a talent guru and let's go straight to the pink elephant in the room. What the heck is happening out there with talent? Some people are letting people go. And masses. Some. Some companies are hiring like crazy and they cannot find talent. What's going on? What are you seeing?
00;00;55;01 - 00;01;17;08
Mark
Well, it's. It's funny that you say that. The reasons. I guess when you start looking at it, they're they're complex and they're broad with uncertainty. That's creating somewhat of a cautious optimism in the market with a pending recession looming. Whether we're in one or not, there's people that will say one thing or another.
00;01;17;11 - 00;01;23;14
Jennifer
The R-word I stood to ban that word from the program, but it's can't will it away, right?
00;01;23;16 - 00;01;51;29
Mark
I think it depends on the company and the industry and their efforts of trying to balance the economy, their current and future supply chain disruptions that are still going on and the shortage that currently exists in the labor market. I think the top issues for companies is still a worker shortage and supply. There's still an issue that's there, and we still have a workforce shortage.
00;01;52;01 - 00;02;15;12
Mark
If you take a look, last count, I think I had heard this, that there's two job openings for every available worker. And so depending on the industry that you're in, the current demand for what's being provided and that worker shortage or so let's say, in some cases, that's if there's a talent gap, which is the desired knowledge and the skill set and the experience that's needed.
00;02;15;15 - 00;02;38;10
Mark
But there's been a lot of shifts that have happened with all the Covid. And that's been a bit of a tipping point. The market still hasn't settled down. And I think in the labor market and the companies, their focus is on costs because of inflation, the market and the potential that exists. But a lot of it depends on that industry that they're in.
00;02;38;13 - 00;02;44;17
Jennifer
Yeah. So what industries you see hiring and in which industries do you see not hiring right now?
00;02;44;20 - 00;03;21;19
Mark
Well, I see there's still a shortage in the durable goods manufacturing wholesale and trade and retail education, health services. Obviously they still have the the labor shortages. These industries have more unfulfilled openings, I would say, than unemployed workers. And, you know, with the experience in the respective industry is job openings for labor shortage, transportation industry, the health care, the social services, the accommodation, the food industry or leisure and hospitality that people will call up?
00;03;21;21 - 00;03;53;09
Mark
Conversely, I think that construction, mining industries, there's a labor shortage. But on the flip side, there is we've seen drops in financial and insurance jobs, companies that benefited from low mortgage rates, for instance. So the market shifted. And homebuying mortgage refinancing spree that we had, the retail stock trading frenzy that we went through during the pandemic. And, you know, experiences they they experienced the hiring boom.
00;03;53;11 - 00;04;14;18
Mark
But now with the interest rates and the changes that were made with the Federal Reserve, the expense of borrowing money, these have all resulted in a trend that's reversed that, you know, I think jobs and finance and insurance grew rapidly during the pandemic, but they fall on I think the last column was somewhere around 40% on the rest of the labor market.
00;04;14;21 - 00;04;27;13
Jennifer
Well, I think you said two really interesting things thus far. The first word that you used was uncertainty. I mean, hasn't that happened? The theme for the last two and a half, three years and the.
00;04;27;16 - 00;04;27;25
Mark
Three to.
00;04;27;25 - 00;04;37;01
Jennifer
One business is hurting? Oh, geez. 2 to 1. It is. It's frustrating from an employer perspective.
00;04;37;02 - 00;04;42;04
Mark
Well, and I would say that that's probably the biggest word that most people I hear is that frustration.
00;04;42;11 - 00;04;43;08
Jennifer
Yeah.
00;04;43;10 - 00;04;59;20
Mark
And a large majority of CEOs, they are planning for a downturn in some cases reducing headcount, particularly around marketing and advertising. But for many, the downturn just hasn't arrived yet. So there's still a shortage. We still have more beginning.
00;04;59;22 - 00;05;23;20
Jennifer
We're at the beginning, at whatever changes happening. So when certain industries are letting go and others are hiring, there's usually some sort of delay in the market conditions as well as size of employer. The big guys go first, and then a few months later the small guys get in there as well. Let's let's talk about another disconnect, another pink elephant, so to speak.
00;05;23;23 - 00;05;49;16
Jennifer
There is a big difference between what job seekers want in need and what employers want and need. That's been cloned. The great divide. Tell us your thoughts on that. Where are you? Are you seeing that? You know, when you're connecting, people are you seeing some frustrations from employers of I'm hiring this person with these skill sets at the salary and they don't have it.
00;05;49;19 - 00;06;00;29
Jennifer
And then the person that doesn't have it wants more compensation and benefits and perks than in the past. What are you seeing in what's called the Great Divide?
00;06;01;01 - 00;06;23;27
Mark
Well, I would say in one word that we talked earlier about and you mentioned it was frustration. It's probably the easiest way to explain. It's funny, we all experience Covid 19, which transformed the workplace and the job search altogether. Then we had the great resignation, which where millions of employees resign from their positions to find a, you know, something better.
00;06;23;29 - 00;06;47;14
Mark
Not just when you know you may have thought the job market couldn't get any crazier. We have this what's called the Great Divide, which is probably one of the most concerns of all. And if you're a business owner, you're frustrated, looking to fill one or more positions. You did applications and bodies for the positions, but you're struggling to find the right fit for the need and the team.
00;06;47;17 - 00;07;10;14
Mark
And you know, it's not only important to find the right candidate for the job, but it also imperative that they mesh with the rest of the team and culture that exist in the company. Now, if, on the other hand, if you're the job seeker, you're also frustrated. If you're searching for a new job, which many of them are starting to, you know, they're looking they're frustrated, they may be looking for a more suitable place to work.
00;07;10;16 - 00;07;35;09
Mark
Maybe you want to work 100% remote, or at least have some options to work, a few days from home, perhaps? Yeah. You're you're seeing an entirely or you want to do an entirely different career opportunity. But I think the frustration that exists is the want and the need. And some job seekers are not able to are willing to retool themselves because they it's the skill match.
00;07;35;12 - 00;08;01;23
Mark
And I think the frustration that sets in is when we continually hear that, well, there's jobs out there and they're to be filled and everyone is hiring. But as an employer, it's frustrating and discouraging to know that there's millions of candidates looking for work. Our. Yeah, neither of you are able to find the right fit. It's almost like two different roads that people are on, because you see a lot of people that are looking for work that says they can't find the work.
00;08;01;25 - 00;08;33;10
Jennifer
Well, I'm always perspective as well. I mean, there's been so much change that they've had to adapt to a hybrid work fully remote work, fully in-person work, different some cultures going on, things constantly changing and shifting not only in the employment world and within their companies, but outside as well. And so many factors going on right now. What are you seeing as best practices related to recruit and retention as it relates to employers?
00;08;33;13 - 00;08;39;15
Jennifer
What are you know, if you could share some of those best practices? What are people doing out there that's really working?
00;08;39;17 - 00;09;07;24
Mark
Well, I guess from a general overview is there's obviously recruitment and retention. There's this bit of a chicken and an egg that's that's there. Focus on recruitment and retention strategies that actually work to start with, because there's a lot of things that don't work. I encourage both the clients that we work with, but also, you know, listeners flip that and focus first on the retention and then the recruitment.
00;09;07;27 - 00;09;34;05
Mark
Because if you can retain the employees that you've got, that reduces the work you're going to have to do to recruit new ones. So from a retention standpoint, obviously there's a number of elements that exist. It's one of the best values that I think I've gained out of the best and brightest, because it it's, it is a key component, and it's probably the single most important thing to ensure that success in the business is to keep people turnovers expensive.
00;09;34;07 - 00;09;44;22
Mark
I think last count, it was $57,000 cost to rehire and lost productivity that exists. I think you.
00;09;44;24 - 00;09;47;12
Jennifer
And business up to.
00;09;47;15 - 00;10;08;01
Mark
Yeah, it does start that making sure that you find the right people or shall I say, or find people, but also the right people, because that's been a key component. Good recruitment means, you know, you've got fewer problems in retention, but getting the right people in the right job and they're on the market, it'll impact retention in a way.
00;10;08;03 - 00;10;08;25
Mark
00;10;08;28 - 00;10;32;24
Jennifer
So let's talk about that. You said your advice to those listening right now is to focus on retention first and foremost. What we've been saying at the best and brightest, as we've been saying, not only focus on retention, but focus on identifying who you are. I almost what is your personality as a company? What are the perks of of working there?
00;10;32;24 - 00;10;58;27
Jennifer
What are the intrinsic value and the core values and putting those into a branding strategy? So we work really hard to retain clients, and here's who we are and here's our value proposition. We need to work just as hard, if not harder, on the same thing with our employees. So I know a lot of HR teams are teaming up with marketing departments.
00;10;58;27 - 00;11;22;26
Jennifer
We talked with Kathy Steele in our last CEO, LinkedIn live, and she talked a little bit about that from a marketing perspective as a marketing firm. So, you know, that's one thing that I would recommend. But, you know, demands for compensation are higher. There's inflation woes. Many are making adjustments on compensation, but many can't. They're doing the best they can.
00;11;22;28 - 00;11;42;12
Jennifer
So more reason to to focus on the non compensation value game. What are you seeing in some of these compensation packages as far as Non-Salary little carrots on the stick. What are you seeing that your clients are doing that inflation and compensation demands.
00;11;42;15 - 00;12;01;08
Mark
Well I think one of the things that it's it's I guess it's the unspoken benefit that might exist that sometimes is there that's appreciated. But it's not necessarily promoted well enough. So you mentioned the marketing side of it. There's some people that don't realize what they do have.
00;12;01;10 - 00;12;02;00
Jennifer
Right.
00;12;02;03 - 00;12;24;10
Mark
And, you know, I think some companies are moving to a point where they're creating they're creating some visibility on those benefits that they're providing. And maybe looking at it from a whole standpoint of, you know, here's the benefit, here's the program you have or the compensation that not only includes the salary, but also the other things that are bonuses.
00;12;24;13 - 00;12;43;24
Mark
The gifts that might exist is to realize all the different areas that the value does apply, the benefits, the flextime, the visibility, the opportunities that are available. You know, I think some of that happens in the background and it's there, but it's not promoted or recognized well enough.
00;12;43;26 - 00;12;48;04
Jennifer
Yes. If a tree falls in the forest, did it really fall right?
00;12;48;07 - 00;13;30;14
Mark
Now, I think also there's many companies that are reevaluating some of the perks that do exist. They're shifting who gets those perks? Because the pressures of the economic and the inflation side, they're having to find ways to be able to save but yet still increase compensation. I think when you hire somebody at the entry level, the struggle is, is depending on the number of employees you have, if you hire somebody above where your current employment population is, then you've got to look at it's not just hiring one person, it's also ensuring that you've got alignment and adjustments that are being made for the current staff that exist.
00;13;30;14 - 00;13;42;23
Mark
Otherwise that creates additional issues. Well, one increase in compensation across the board now becomes significant. So it's not just one person, it is the whole company at that point.
00;13;42;25 - 00;13;49;12
Jennifer
But we so we're seeing there you okay? Sorry about that, Mark. What we're seeing.
00;13;49;15 - 00;14;01;20
Mark
I see companies that have made changes with with salaries, but they've tried to keep up with the inflation rate. But I don't think I don't think any do it year where album.
00;14;01;22 - 00;14;26;12
Jennifer
If you keep up with the inflation rate and everything going on in the world when something bad happens, and this has always been my philosophy is you don't let people good people go, right? So you have to be creative and you have to have some ingenuity around it. However, seeing that the hourly personnel and staff usually that requires increases salary.
00;14;26;12 - 00;14;50;27
Jennifer
What we're seeing is more more companies being created if they're able to if they're able to take have give extra days off or reduce work schedules or whatever, they can do some barnacles, paid vacations, whatever they can do to remain competitive, paying 100% of the health care versus a percentage. And, you know, there's all kinds of little things that they can do.
00;14;50;27 - 00;15;05;16
Jennifer
But to your point, there's some companies that don't know what they have. Would you recommend. How would you recommend they find out what they have? Should they survey employees? Should they hire someone like you? I mean, what.
00;15;05;19 - 00;15;35;14
Mark
I would say both. I mean, you mentioned the conversations with employees and that becomes a key component. A lot of times the the issues are right underneath your nose, but you don't necessarily uncover them. Keep an eye on the competition. You got to know what what competition is offering. I just not just those who sell similar products or services, but every business needs an accountant or a customer service person, so don't fool yourself that you don't need to pay attention to the market.
00;15;35;16 - 00;15;55;02
Mark
And it's not just pay. In addition to the salary, people are looking for the flexibility. You mentioned that whether it's working for home, it's doing things that are totally outside the scope of that you've ever thought about before. But I think a big part of it is have discussions of open transparency with the employer employees that you have.
00;15;55;05 - 00;16;14;05
Mark
I see a number of companies and I promote it because it's of great value. We often do exit interviews. The problem is it's after the fact, after they're walking out the door, it's difficult to shift. Sometimes they might say the reason they're leaving is because of more money. The reality of it is it's not necessarily the money.
00;16;14;05 - 00;16;44;15
Mark
There's something else that was driving it. It's just an easy flip. A lot of companies are moving to use do stay interviews versus the exit interviews, because you're able to get an idea in advance before it becomes a major issue that moves them to start looking or be open to somebody that advances toward them, know what they've got, but also a discussion that, yeah, this is a company or I'm working for a company that's going to make that adjustment, that career development, that career path thing.
00;16;44;18 - 00;16;56;24
Mark
What is it that the employees what do you even know? I, I see a lot of companies that start programs, perks that was of no interest to the employees that the guy.
00;16;56;26 - 00;17;26;01
Jennifer
Exactly. And what we're seeing, too, is there's this whole employee experience. So from the moment you talk to them about possible employment through their employment experience, and now there's a post employment experience that people are adding. And a lot of a lot of companies are having success hiring employees who have left and getting them back because the grass was not greener.
00;17;26;03 - 00;17;27;06
Mark
And I recommend.
00;17;27;09 - 00;17;31;10
Jennifer
Rehire, we can call it. Hey, you heard that too. Your first.
00;17;31;12 - 00;17;52;14
Mark
Hand. If you have a employer that was a good employer that you lost and it's going to happen. Stay in touch with them. And I know it becomes easy to get discouraged and create. You know what? You know, they left us. I mean, there was a mindset that I had back in the corporate world years ago. If you let this, you lapse.
00;17;52;16 - 00;17;55;10
Mark
Me too. We would never rehire. Well, I use.
00;17;55;11 - 00;17;56;28
Jennifer
It get personal.
00;17;57;00 - 00;18;21;21
Mark
Type. Right. And I think in today's world there is an effort of thinking the grass is greener. But once they leave, they realize that, oh, maybe it's not and there's no reason not to stay and stay connected past employees that you've had, because stuff changes and that didn't look quite as well as it was. Money's one thing, but having a miserable job is something totally different.
00;18;21;23 - 00;18;49;28
Jennifer
Good points, all good points and all good advice. Let's shift gears a little bit. You why you're giving all this wonderful advice and you're in the industry for talent. Let's talk about you as as a CEO and a business owner and a leader. You know, I think when you're in a roomful of CEOs, what we do is we share our pandemic stories, our war stories, almost like our scars are attached to all this tattoos from such and such.
00;18;50;01 - 00;19;20;01
Jennifer
And we we have been through a lot. As you mentioned, there's the uncertainty has been long. The frustrations been long. It seems like a never ending marathon for CEOs right now. If you could tell us a bit about your observation, observations as a CEO of your own team and maybe, you know, share your scar or Ted with us, tell us about your personal story in the last couple of years.
00;19;20;04 - 00;19;41;18
Mark
Well, this this was definitely a deep scar. I know that some of them are scratches, but this was was a deep one. I don't something I don't want to go through again. So hopefully it is it is over. But I will have to say that we're better off because we did go through it. Our revenues drop like a rock starting about February, March, around March.
00;19;41;20 - 00;20;06;25
Mark
We dropped 64% in that second quarter and we learned the new word of you got to pivot. I was so tired of pivoting, and we ended the business about 40% less than what we had. One of our worst, most challenging years. I was actually in process, backing away from the business and had a general manager that was in play, but due to burnout, I lost her.
00;20;06;28 - 00;20;32;17
Mark
She was also part of my succession plan as far as a a business plan or an ownership transition, which to be fair, the challenges or overwhelming issues that she had and the burnout really was because I had an executive coach that I had with her. She was going through a leadership development program that she was attended. But I think Covid 19 turned out to be the tipping point.
00;20;32;20 - 00;20;34;08
Mark
So the stress was there.
00;20;34;11 - 00;20;39;04
Jennifer
And for many women, for me and at executive level.
00;20;39;06 - 00;21;02;00
Mark
And I had a 13 week sabbatical that she took just to renew and kind of kind of get her or her head straight and where things are at to kids and problems of schools and all the stuff that was going on with kids. And it was not a good time. She took the 13 weeks, rested, relaxed, but she did come back and she decided to lead and redirect her career focus in a totally different direction.
00;21;02;00 - 00;21;28;19
Mark
She would just burn out, and that brought me back into the day to day business, which I struggled with. We had a large project that happened with the IRS for the PGP that I thought, man, we're going to make it through without any issues. We ramped it, we had it in place, and after the first week, the client that we had backed out of it because they oversubscribed what they needed and none of them were getting any other work.
00;21;28;19 - 00;21;50;09
Mark
So we spent a huge amount of time and effort and money and a roller coaster ride up thinking we got it to where it was, not all the way back down again. So that was a huge struggle. It was different than the recession that that I went through. Very similar. We had a similar drop, but I guess we were able to adapt.
00;21;50;11 - 00;22;17;02
Mark
We resize the business activities, we did layoffs, we kind of pulled back and we felt that that was, you know, but we consolidated, we hunkered down. We had an 18 because who was left was the key people in the organization. So there was an energy that was there to rebuild it. And but with Covid, particularly if you did the PPE, your objective was not to let anyone go and the work levels were low.
00;22;17;04 - 00;22;33;00
Mark
I think attitudes dropped. Work level was so low that there was some people saying, well, why do we even come to work? Why can't we just stay home and get paid like my neighbor does? So there was this precious that we were being unfair. So there's a lot of things that were going on as it relates to the struggle.
00;22;33;00 - 00;23;03;21
Mark
It was just a slow, difficult time. We rebuilt. We were fortunate that we had another project that came across that female was supporting, and that project catapulted this, got it, got the energy back. We'd lost a number of team members, but we added some really good ones in back. And since then we've had, you know, if it wasn't for the downturn that we had, we lost some people that we probably needed to lose, but then rebuilt it and then the project came back.
00;23;03;21 - 00;23;14;27
Mark
That just kind of catapulted us. We end up 2021, in a record year. It was our highest year that we've ever had. And this year, 2022, we beat that by another 40%.
00;23;15;00 - 00;23;46;01
Jennifer
That's exciting. That's exciting. Well, a few things with your story. Many CEOs that were trying to slow down had to jump back in from an operating perspective, not only strategy but operational. So that I've heard that story quite often. And we had a speaker at one of our conferences, Andy Simon, who's an expert on blue ocean strategy, and she had always said, with Blue Ocean Strategy, you need an emergency in order to make change happen.
00;23;46;01 - 00;24;07;08
Jennifer
And boy, did every business experience Blue Ocean strategy because it forces it. It forces you to focus on the things that need fixing. And it's just like any pain point when you look back and say, gosh, that that was really horrible. But we're better and stronger now as a result of it. So thank you. Thank you for sharing that.
00;24;07;11 - 00;24;34;22
Jennifer
So in that vein, I really hope that two generations from now ask us what you know, I hope, I hope they ask us and say, you know, I, I, I'm going through a hard time. What should I do? But saying that, let's say you had, a young person recently graduated or a young person that's an entrepreneur and they want to be an entrepreneur.
00;24;34;22 - 00;24;53;01
Jennifer
They want to start their own business, run or run their own business. I think they don't get a full picture from society or from education on what's in front of them. What advice would you give them and how would you describe what being an entrepreneur is like?
00;24;53;04 - 00;25;20;08
Mark
Oh, that's a good question. I would say if I and if I was to look at some of my app myself, it's for first off, I'd tell them, don't do it. Expect and realize what you're going to get into. You know, plan that your your success is going to be half of what you think it is, and the cost is going to be double what you had put in as well.
00;25;20;10 - 00;25;42;20
Mark
Yeah. Self-reflection, really knowing who you are, I think is a key component. And I think sometimes it just takes a while before that happens. You know, be humble, be hungry, be smart, hire the same people that are humble, hungry and smart. Don't be afraid to make mistakes. Don't be afraid to allow your people to make mistakes and then learn from them.
00;25;42;23 - 00;26;06;04
Mark
Yeah, engage with other people that can and want to help in the market, because there's a lot of people that have gone through that are out there that are willing to assist a new entrepreneur that's starting up. But sometimes you think you know it all in the beginning and then realize you don't know at all. The only difference between me and some 20 year old that's an entrepreneur is that I've just made a hell of a lot more mistakes than right.
00;26;06;06 - 00;26;22;08
Jennifer
In you'll and then give up right mistakes in order to have success. I mean, the faster you create, do those mistakes is the faster to success. And success is fleeting. And as you as an executive or a business owner.
00;26;22;11 - 00;26;48;00
Mark
And it's and it's hard because people oftentimes look at mistakes as an excuse of why it didn't work or what success didn't achieve is because of this. And they harbor on the excuse as an excuse or the mistake of excuse versus looking at it as, okay, that's that's just a reason that I failed. But now how do I see what went wrong?
00;26;48;02 - 00;26;54;00
Mark
How do I actually take ownership of what went wrong? How do I solve it? And then how do I do it?
00;26;54;03 - 00;27;07;28
Jennifer
Can you give us an example of of a mistake, a monumental mistake that you made and what your thoughts are on it now? You know, keep it confidential, you know. But what big mistake did you make?
00;27;08;03 - 00;27;35;29
Mark
I think, and I've done this. It's sometimes you want something, but other people don't want something. And that might be that might be a leader. And recognizing that, or it might be an employee that you feel can move in a particular direction and you somewhat I don't want to say manipulate, but you highlight or you move them into a direction.
00;27;36;02 - 00;27;56;26
Mark
There's been instances where I've hired salespeople that I thought would be great managers just because they were great salespeople, you know, only to find out that they didn't want to do it. They wanted to be a salesperson, but I moved them into a management role, and they and they failed miserably at the management role. And I think a failure is that really understand what what do people want?
00;27;56;27 - 00;28;15;15
Mark
What are they good at? What do they like, what kind of money they want to make? And is there a there is there a balance? Is it did they become the the hate it? And I think that I've done a number of instances where I've moved people into a job or a role, that it was what I wanted them to do versus what they wanted.
00;28;15;18 - 00;28;24;00
Jennifer
So how do you handle that now? Now that you've learned that lesson, how do you handle that now? Getting the right people in the right seats with the right ambition?
00;28;24;02 - 00;28;50;22
Mark
Well, I think career path and really defining career path for staff, having them see the picture in the next three years, the next five years, the next ten years, show them what the business is intended to look like. And through conversations in the stay interview, the development process is find out what they like to do and what they'd like to do more of, and then mold what the opportunity in the future is.
00;28;50;24 - 00;29;14;10
Mark
Me. I've always, you know, model with a mindset of of training, develop people. So they could lead you, but treat them well enough that they never want to. I think Richard Branson was the one that had said that, you know, and taking the time to to really develop, but also it's not you developing their career, it's you understanding what their development needs to be real.
00;29;14;10 - 00;29;33;25
Mark
In some cases, you may not have what they're looking for in the future, but then that's a case of learning how to develop that person as a platform to learn all they can to still move to the next level. But you know that they're going to leave. So there's a good conversation and a relationship that develops off. It's talk to people, find out what they want.
00;29;33;28 - 00;29;38;07
Mark
And it's just that it's such a hard thing to do. Is that transparent discussion.
00;29;38;10 - 00;30;02;27
Jennifer
Exactly. So, you know, we were talking about success and your advice for, a young person that wants to, to own a business or be an entrepreneur, what are your monumental moments of success? So let's flip this to the positive. What what things happened in your career that created your success?
00;30;03;01 - 00;30;29;22
Mark
I would say defining my reality self-assessment. Really knowing what you're good at, what you like to do, and then accepting what you're not good at and what you don't like to do, and then develop a focus to where you spend more time doing what you like and what you're good at. But then find people that are opposite from you, that are good at what you don't like to do.
00;30;29;24 - 00;30;54;24
Mark
But they do like to do it, and they're good at it. And realizing that and identifying, you know, your strengths. And that was probably my biggest thing is my strengths and my weaknesses. The strengths developed further can be superpowers, but the weaknesses just try to neutralize the impact. I was diagnosed with ADHD 57 oh wow. Oh the shock.
00;30;54;27 - 00;31;20;29
Mark
But it helped recognize why I struggled with some of the things that I struggle with, whether it's, consistency or persistency on certain issues or loss of attention or I it was just a struggle for me not realizing it until I found out what it was after an assessment that I took how I you know, what the word or what the letters stood for.
00;31;21;01 - 00;31;36;14
Mark
But it helped me kind of recognize some of the issues that I had. But what I'd done to overcome them. But then when I needed to hire or have in place just because of what some of those limitations were and what teams needs reference.
00;31;36;17 - 00;32;05;16
Jennifer
That's a wonderful story. And now neurodiversity within a company is very important. You want people that think differently and their brains are wired differently. And many entrepreneurs and business owners have some neurodiversity because that's what makes them excited about their career paths. So thank you for sharing that. That was a great example. Let's shift gears again. We'd like to demystify CEOs out there.
00;32;05;21 - 00;32;27;07
Jennifer
The movies sometimes make big bad CEOs, and little do they know how in and philanthropic and hardworking we we really are and how quote unquote normal we are to business on the day. So let's talk about you as a human. What rituals do you do every day? You have any rituals?
00;32;27;09 - 00;32;50;10
Mark
I do, I am an early riser, so I'm usually up at 530 in the morning, which gives me a time to kind of collect and connect. I generally walk in the morning. I'll have a daily prayer that that aligns and I got into journaling. So I spend some time that's doing that a little time in the morning.
00;32;50;12 - 00;32;53;01
Jennifer
Early work, gratitude journaling.
00;32;53;03 - 00;33;21;20
Mark
Yeah, just journal gratitude. And there'll be some questions that I'll stay consistent with. I've I've kind of started stop, started, stopped. It's kind of something over the last number of years. But it's interesting to go backwards in a journal and look at the historical component and remember what was going on and what you recognize is how far you have come that you didn't realize how far that you had come.
00;33;21;22 - 00;33;45;17
Mark
So there's a lot of different elements that can be a value that over a long period of time and even of something short, doesn't have to be huge. I think I started at first, oddly enough, when my son was in his final year of high school, and I decided I was going to give him a journal for the year of his last year, and I journaled through the whole year.
00;33;45;19 - 00;34;10;22
Mark
Now, everything that was there from the car wreck that he had getting into trouble. Yeah, that was there as well. But it was a reminder. And then I made it into a book and gave it to him. Yeah. And it just became something that was a graduation present that I took the time every day to write something. It wasn't every day it might have been every other day or once a week, but there was, a lot of stuff for him to go through.
00;34;10;24 - 00;34;22;19
Mark
From my perspective. And then different points of wisdom were brought out in it as a, as a keepsake. And from that I moved into the journaling. That was more for me as a result of that.
00;34;22;22 - 00;34;34;09
Jennifer
Nice. Yeah, I can always count on you for wonderful ideas, but it's always Mark. I mean, every time we talk, there's something good. What do you do for fun?
00;34;34;12 - 00;34;37;00
Mark
What do I do for fun? I play music.
00;34;37;03 - 00;34;38;03
Jennifer
Look, I.
00;34;38;06 - 00;34;52;14
Mark
I am I'm involved with a retreat. There are men's group at church, so I play at church, play with the retreats that we do and get into that. And I've played for a lot of years. Got away from it for about 15.
00;34;52;16 - 00;34;54;28
Jennifer
What do you play? Where are you play? Well.
00;34;55;00 - 00;34;57;16
Mark
I play guitar and then I sing.
00;34;57;18 - 00;35;00;08
Jennifer
Bass or acoustic. What kind of guitar?
00;35;00;10 - 00;35;19;26
Mark
I play a primarily acoustic, but then a little bit of electric. So it's it's something I enjoy. I played it in college. I've been playing since I was a kid. I did kind of back away from it for about 15 years because of work and schedule and family and travel and expensive guitars. I put it into a case and they look very nice, but I never picked them up.
00;35;19;28 - 00;35;38;14
Mark
And oddly enough, it started with an ax retreat, a retreat that I did. And then I started picking up the music again, got involved in church, and my son got involved, and he's now playing professionally as a musician and so cool. Oh yeah, we have a good time with it. So what is your what?
00;35;38;16 - 00;35;47;01
Jennifer
I wish I had known that, you know, an hour ago, and I would have had you play something that would have required that I.
00;35;47;03 - 00;35;58;18
Mark
I generally have a guitar here. It's actually I used it this weekend, but every every birthday and anniversary at the staff, I pull the guitar out and we'll sing Happy Birthday. And that's it's a lot of fun.
00;35;58;20 - 00;36;04;04
Jennifer
That's great. That's great. I to sing Happy Birthday. What? I can't.
00;36;04;07 - 00;36;04;16
Mark
Really.
00;36;04;16 - 00;36;14;12
Jennifer
Mean no, but let's talk. Okay, so here's the final question. This is a doozy. You ready? How do you define happiness?
00;36;14;17 - 00;36;32;08
Mark
Oh, that's a good one, I would say. And I know this is probably a repeat from somebody else knowing what you want, but it's getting all that you want out of life, whatever that is, without violating somebody else to get it.
00;36;32;11 - 00;36;49;23
Jennifer
That's nice. That's nice. Well, I think we should end with that. As I mentioned, you always get good advice. You're so smart. And it's it's been a pleasure knowing you. And. Yes, just keep shining bright, Mark. Just keep shining bright.
00;36;49;25 - 00;37;10;27
Mark
Well, you you have no idea how much I appreciate the best and brightest. I mean, it's been an organization of involvement that we've had. It's it's been extremely helpful. I mean, that was a mantra that I had to achieve a status level of of that. But it doesn't stop with just being able to get into the best and brightest.
00;37;10;27 - 00;37;27;06
Mark
It's a case of looking at what can I learn, what more can I do, and how do you make it stronger? Whether it's the EOS model that we're going into, but it's there's a lot of different ways the businesses succeed, and it's a benchmark to be able to pull from. And you guys about you'll be applauded for what you put together.
00;37;27;13 - 00;37;36;25
Jennifer
Thank you. Thank you so much. Well, thank you for your time today. Thank you everyone. We're going to sign off and keep shining. Great everybody.