Grazing Grass Podcast : Sharing Stories of Regenerative Ag

Join us for an enlightening discussion with Blane Stacy, a rangeland management specialist from Northeast Oklahoma, as we explore the intricacies of regenerative grazing and rangeland management. Blane shares his fascinating journey from his early days in FFA to becoming a specialist assisting farmers and ranchers across the state with effective grazing strategies. His dual role as a professional and practitioner on his 80-acre farm provides a unique perspective on the principles of evaluating plant communities for livestock and wildlife management. Through Blane's insights, we uncover the importance of maintaining functional grazing ecosystems and the invaluable lessons learned from his personal and professional experiences in regenerative agriculture.

Listen in as we revive interest in rangeland judging contests within FFA programs, highlighting the evolution and importance of these competitions in fostering knowledge of plant species and ecological systems. We discuss the need for supporting ag teachers and attracting future rangeland specialists, emphasizing how these contests can inspire careers in plant and soil sciences. The conversation extends to the practical aspects of setting up a managed grazing system, focusing on making it family-friendly and flexible, and the challenges of managing infrastructure like electric fencing.

Finally, we examine the critical relationship between rangeland ecosystems and grazing management, especially in Northeast Oklahoma. Blane guides us through the historical role of natural processes like fire and grazing in shaping ecosystems and the balance needed to maintain ecological function. Through examples of high-intensity regenerative grazing practices, we highlight the necessity of managed grazing for ecosystem health. The episode wraps up with discussions on connecting with like-minded grazers and utilizing resources like Walt Davis's "How to Not Go Broke Ranching" to promote effective land stewardship. This episode offers a comprehensive look at how regenerative grazing can benefit both land and livestock, encouraging sustainable agricultural practices.

Links Mentioned in the Episode:
Oklahoma Conservation Commission

Visit our Sponsors:
Noble Research Institute
Redmond
Kencove Farm Fence

What is Grazing Grass Podcast : Sharing Stories of Regenerative Ag?

The Grazing Grass Podcast features insights and stories of regenerative farming, specifically emphasizing grass-based livestock management. Our mission is to foster a community where grass farmers can share knowledge and experiences with one another. We delve into their transition to these practices, explore the ins and outs of their operations, and then move into the "Over Grazing" segment, which addresses specific challenges and learning opportunities. The episode rounds off with the "Famous Four" questions, designed to extract valuable wisdom and advice. Join us to gain practical tips and inspiration from the pioneers of regenerative grass farming.

This is the podcast for you if you are trying to answer: What are regenerative farm practices? How to be grassfed? How do I graze other species of livestock? What's are ways to improve pasture and lower costs? What to sell direct to the consumer?

Welcome to the grazing
grass podcast episode 141.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
I don't know if you've ever seen a

bunch of like minded people geek out at
looking at dung beetles in cow manure,

but that's the kind of people we are.

Cal: You're listening to the
grazing grass, podcast, sharing

information and stories of
grass-based livestock production

utilizing regenerative practices.

I'm your host, Cal Hardage.

You're growing more than grass.

You're growing a healthier
ecosystem to help your cattle

thrive in their environment.

You're growing your livelihood by
increasing your carrying capacity

and reducing your operating costs.

You're growing stronger communities
and a legacy to last generations.

The grazing management
decisions you make today.

impact everything from the soil beneath
your feet to the community all around you.

That's why the Noble Research
Institute created their Essentials

of Regenerative Grazing course to
teach ranchers like you easy to follow

techniques to quickly assess your forage
production and infrastructure capacity.

In order to begin
grazing more efficiently.

Together, they can help you grow
not only a healthier operation,

but a legacy that lasts.

Learn more on their website at noble.

org slash grazing.

It's n o b l e dot org
forward slash grazing.

On today's show.

We have Blane Stacy from
Northeast, Oklahoma.

He is a range land.

Range land management specialist for
the Oklahoma conservation commission.

And he also has a small
farm, not too far from me.

On today's episode, we
talk about his journey.

To where he is now, as well
as getting started on 80 acres

and how he's managing his cows.

It's a great conversation.

I think you'll enjoy it.

10 seconds about the farm.

Uh, we have rain in the
forecast, hopefully by the

time you're listening to this.

We have some rain falling.

Awesome.

I've been under the weather
for the last few days.

I blame my dad.

But it's possible.

I could have caught it somewhere else too.

So I guess I shouldn't do that.

For 10 seconds about the podcast.

If you're not part of the
grazing grass community on

Facebook, I suggest you join it.

We've had a couple posts in
the last few days that really

stirred a lot of conversation.

And that's, that's the point of
it talking to like-minded people.

And being able to bounce ideas
off of them, get their viewpoints.

You know, it's so nice
to have a discussion.

And understand that we all
don't have the same viewpoints.

So if you're not part of the grazing grass
community, go to Facebook and do a search

for grazing grass, community, and join.

Now you have to answer a question
or two, or you won't get in, but.

Those are easy.

But I suggest you go over there.

Join.

Uh, enough of about my
farm and about the podcast.

Let's talk to Blane.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Blane, we want to
welcome you to the Grazing Grass podcast.

We're excited you're

here today.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
Yes, absolutely.

You know, thanks for having me.

I'm really excited to discuss
grass, grass management.

My little operation here in, in a
beautiful corner of southeastern

Nowata County, and hopefully give
some tips, some tricks, and some

ideas for other people along the way.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Sounds
like a great plan to get started.

Tell us just a little bit about yourself

and your operation.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547: That
is a loaded question, and I'll, I'll, I'll

condense it to the best of my ability.

Blane Stacey from New Alluwe, Oklahoma.

I have kind of two different
ways I'm going to approach this.

Number one is, I am a rangeland
management specialist for the

Oklahoma Conservation Commission.

I work with farmers, ranchers, producers
all across the state of Oklahoma.

We do education, outreach, and
conservation technical assistance.

What that basically means is, I get, A
guy called me and said, Blane, my grass

ain't growing, would you come and help me?

Up to massive scale regenerative grazing
management operations looking for ideas,

tips, tricks everything from livestock
behavior grass function, grass morphology,

grass ecology but I'm also a practitioner.

My little 80 acre grazing
operation, we're about two miles

due west of New Alluwe, Oklahoma.

Most of the time it's a
perfect little slice of heaven.

It's a little bit dry today, but we're,
I think we've put together a pretty

good program that, I've got more grass
than everybody around me, I'll say

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Oh yeah,

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
The ability to maintain the

functionality of a grazing ecosystem
through livestock management

has been repeated over and over.

And not just as an educator, but now
as a practitioner, we've been here on

this place just a little over two years.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: oh

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
this in, in

April of 2022, but I've been involved
in grazing, grazing management

pretty much my entire life.

We could go all the way back
to eighth grade FFA class.

My father was an FFA instructor at
Oklahoma union high school, and I joined

the pasture and range judging team.

So at a young age, had an interest
in grass, grazing land ecology.

And what I loved about the, the FFA
range judging contest was it didn't

approach things simply from a.

Pasture grazing only scenario.

It, it, in this

contest, you, you had to evaluate
the, the existing plant community.

Compare it to what would be
considered a historic plant community.

So it taught you not only to use
visual evaluation, but compare that

to what the grassland ecosystem
would have been 200 years ago.

Then we do an evaluation
for livestock management.

How, how good of a spot is this for?

You look at forage production,

forage availability other factors
like distribution factors, brush,

canopy cover, distance to water
and invasive species pressure.

And then, a portion of the contest,
you do the same thing, but evaluate

for bobwhite quail habitat.

So, through

this contest, grew up gaining an
appreciation for natural habitat.

Rangeland ecosystems, was fortunate
enough to be a state champion,

went on to nationals and was
a national champion as well.

From there I guess I caught the eye of
the state NRCS rangeland specialist.

At the time, Mark Mosley, he was also one
of the co authors of the Judging Manual

he approached my father, he says, Mr.

Stacey, I think I've got
something your son would like.

And they had a Ecological
Academy, is what they called it.

Basically, it was summer camp for grass
and, and soil and range nerds, which I

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: oh yes,

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
So in the, in the summer of 2003, I

believe, we went out to the Black Mesa
Ecological Academy, where The Natural

Resource Conservation Service Fish and
Wildlife Service, BLM, and Forestry

all work together to put on this camp.

And I thought, you guys
get to do this every day.

You get to evaluate

grasslands.

You get to go out and
do field evaluations.

So I was sold.

I said sign me up.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: oh yeah,

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547: So

from there the career
arc gets a little murky.

There's probably not a job I
haven't done at some point.

I've been everything from a, from
an environmental technician for

a federal recognized tribe, for
the Kaw tribe near Ponca City.

I have been

a NRCS USDA employee as an intern.

I've done everything.

I've in between from day work cowboying
to training horses to working at steel

pipe and supply facilities, but always
coming back to my love for Rangeland

Ecology and natural Resources management.

I landed with Oklahoma Conservation
Commission, so that's a

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: you go to

college at OSU?

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547: yes.

I, I did two year stint in
Wilberton at Eastern Oklahoma

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Oh, okay.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547: a

livestock judging
scholarship of all things.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Oh,

yes.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
I showed livestock in high school

and, and was very enjoyable.

We'll get into this a little bit
later, but the idea of a perfect

animal in a show ring scenario doesn't
quite fit with what we're looking at.

As far as an efficient grazing animal in
these high intensity grazing scenarios.

If, if we get off on that
tangent, we'll, we'll get there.

But from, from there, it was,
I wanted to have a career.

In some kind of land resource
management and was lucky enough

and even with the conservation commission.

My 1st, 2 years was in
water quality monitoring.

I didn't necessarily start with

with the soil, the soil health
program, which I currently work for.

So two years of water quality monitoring.

I gained an appreciation for the, the
collection of data in that program

because that was a direct gauge of
the conservation programs that were

being applied statewide either through
NRCS, Conservation Commission, or

our, our state and federal partners.

if, if we're having soil erosion,
we apply conservation practices

within a watershed, we go collect the
water quality data before and after.

If we can show an improvement
of that water quality.

Our conservation practices
are working and, and

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Oh, yeah.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
management was a huge push there kind

of in the mid aughts toward, till about
2010 prescribed grazing was a, was

a conservation practice through NRCS
and we were able to track that data.

But in 2016, they said, Blane,
we love you and water quality,

but we have an opportunity in
soil and soil health program.

Would you like to do that?

And I said, well, kind of
explain what I'll be doing.

So, all, all of

2016, they had scheduled some
plant identification workshops.

So, all my experience through
FFA range judging I, I forgot to

mention that plant identification
was also a part of that contest.

You were supposed to

identify 20 plants at any stage of growth.

It could be, we've had
contests in the spring or fall.

So you have to be able to identify
big bluestem when it's that tall

or when it's full mature and

seeded out.

So that was right in my wheelhouse.

I said, I've.

Sign me

up, be glad to, and, and
have it looked back since.

To be honest, didn't really have
a good background in what we would

call managed grazing, regenerative
grazing through university.

I loved my time at Oklahoma State,
but it was a pretty conventional

set of, Management rules,
continuous set stock grazing.

We, we hammered to death the, the
stock, how to set stocking rates,

but we never approached the, the true

management systems that can be
implemented that truly mimic what we

would call the historic grazing pattern.

Don't know how far we want
to get off into that, but

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Yeah.

Well, yeah, and you know, I attended
OSU a few decades in advance of you and

kind of the same thing looking at inputs
and outputs and, and, not really any

grazing management there other than the

conventional set stock.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
certainly know how to cash flow,

but the, the, a

rangeland I could remember a
derogatory term that they use,

they call them native stomp lots.

That's how they, that's how

they

viewed these, these native
rangeland ecosystem.

It was just a space to get them
a little grass in the summertime.

Dump a little hay out in

the winter time, you're, you're, they
were continually overstocked to begin

with, so it was just an input output.

They brought inputs in, they brought
in the feed, they brought in the hay.

And they ship the outputs to the,
to the peat yard essentially.

So not, not what I would call an
efficient or profitable system, but

as long as the banker got his note
paid, and you had a little bit left

at the end of the year, not too
many people were complaining.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: The other thing
is you're sharing your story there It

jumped out at me is this range land
Judging contest or the full name because

when I went through FFA we had land
judging we got in there We looked at soil.

We looked at topsoil subsoil

water capability of it But this rangeland
sounds really interesting to me.

I'm assuming it's more recent than when I

went through school.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
Oh, I'm not sure when it

became an official contest.

I remember being very small.

My father was an ag
teacher at, at Delaware

high school, early nineties.

He had a, he had a
range judging team then.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Oh, so it
may not be that my, my ag teacher

was interested in that and I wasn't

aware of it too.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
could be I mean, God bless our

teachers and educators, ag teachers.

They,

they can get spread pretty
thin between livestock showing.

Speeches, professional leadership, and
then the, the, the students themselves

and their supervised ag experiences.

So I, I've seen that firsthand.

The, the ag teachers, they kind of
have to pick and choose what they're

good at or what they're comfortable
presenting and coaching teams on.

And truth be told, There's
a lot of land judges because

it's a fairly simple contest.

You don't get a

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Oh, yeah.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547: The

parameters are the same.

You're evaluating soil, texture,
permeability, slope, elevation,

and then really all the

other intricacies of that contest
are, they're given to the students.

At the contest, you know, all they have
to do, it's more of a memorization thing

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Oh, yeah.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
they can, if they can get soil

texture and they can get slope and
they can get the, the, the day that

they're out there, the physical
characteristics with some consistency.

The rest of it's just memorization.

Okay, well, if you, if you see
this, this, and this, you mark this.

The range judging was a little bit
more, I would say, complex, but you

had to have a broader knowledge base.

Number one, you had to identify
130 plants before you could even

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Oh, yeah.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
There's 130 plants on that list.

You may not see them all,
but if you go evaluate a

range site, you have to know what big
bluestem, switchgrass, Indian grass,

all these pretty common rangeland
species look like at any stage of

growth, whether they're three inches
tall, fresh green regrowth after a

prescribed burn or into the fall.

After that plant is already
senesced, set seed, and turn brown.

So, we've been trying to support
our FFA and 4 H programs.

We hosted a workshop in Stillwater
earlier this summer, and invited Ag

teachers to just come and experience
what the contest is all about.

We had probably a dozen ag teachers from
across the state that weren't already

sending teams to the state contest.

Just gave them an opportunity to
say, it's, don't be intimidated

by the breadth of knowledge.

If you can, if you can identify

20 or 25 plants and, and cover
the main ones and know how to

evaluate spatially grassland.

Mark some stuff on a card.

You'll be fine.

So we're trying to increase the
participation on that contest And I'm

not going to let that contest die But
the simple fact is we had I think five

teams at state FFA contests this year
And of those five teams three of those

ag teachers are either retiring or have
already retired and simply support this

one team my father being one of them.

He's been retired for five
years from teaching ag, but

he still does one contest.

He helps out with the rangeland judging
contest through the FFA program.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: oh, yes.

Well, I will have to bring it up
to the, the ag teachers I know.

I know when I went back to education,
people asked, they assumed I

went, went back to be ag teacher.

I'm like, no, that's, that's
way too much work for me to do

something outside of school hours.

There's just so many activities.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
definitely, definitely it's If we

could get that comfortability with
that contest and that's just getting

those ag teachers exposed to it,
I think we can bring that back up.

Because on the flip side of that, we're
trying to find replacements for us.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Oh,

yes.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
we're looking for rangeland specialists,

we're looking for plant and soil
scientists, those kids that are in FFA,

that are interested in these careers
because frankly, we can't find those kids.

Or, or, we're not finding

those type of kids to, to fill our
ranks from, from my professional

career.

And then, if we could get a few of them
interested in regenerative grazing at the

same time and, and become disciples of
this as well we can spread the idea of

regenerative grazing further and further.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Oh, yes.

And I, I think that's a really a
natural evolution as you gain knowledge

about your rangeland ecology and,
and build that knowledge there.

You, you come across regenerative
grazing, regenerative ag practices,

and it really strikes your

interest and you dive

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
Absolutely.

That's it.

It was yeah.

I, I tell people all the time, if,
if, if you, if you read the Bible,

it was sa on the way to Damascus.

That, that was kind of a moment
that I had with, with Regener,

with regenerative grazing.

Just a, a truly a, a mind altering
moment of we're not trying to make these

cows do anything they can't already do.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Right.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
It's, it's, we're, for one, we're

mimicking the, the natural grazing pattern
that shaped the Great Plains ecosystem.

I think

part of our discussion here a little
bit is going to cover rangeland

ecology, but that's what makes
regenerative grazing so awesome.

We're simply recreating the
processes that shaped this central

prairie ecosystem, albeit at a much

smaller scale.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Right.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
telling,

when I first discovered regenerative
grazing, my mindset was, so you're

telling me I can make the ecosystem
better and graze more cows?

That, that just was, why
aren't we all doing this?

and,

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Oh, yeah.

Lower your input costs.

Maybe make

more money.

Yeah, those,

those are all

music

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
could shift gears a little bit and,

and, Kind of jump into my operation.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547:
Yeah, let's do that.

Let's, let's talk about what you're doing.

And just for our listeners
Blane is only about six miles

away from me.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
we're, we're tucked off here in, in, in

what we call the, the Cherokee prairies.

So, we're east of Bartlesville,
west of the Ozark Plateau.

There's a little, there's a little kind
of a wedge shape of native prairie.

Unfortunately, a lot of it got coal
mined back in the late 70s, early

80s.

The, the, the place I purchased here
was coal mined back in the late 1970s.

It was after The date where they were
required to go back in and restore it.

So, they came in, they stripped mine,
they moved all the rubble rock off, took

the coal seams out, replaced the rubble
rock, and then put the topsoil back on.

Old historic soils maps tell me that
this used to be an Apperson silty clay

loam with a little bit of Katusa soil.

So, we're talking silty clay
type, pretty tight soils.

For the most part, pretty tight soils.

That's what we, that's what we deal with.

But I've got 80 acres of my own property.

I've got a brother in law
just to the east of me.

He's a rope horse trainer.

He's got a few old retired rope horses.

So I do have an option to utilize
some of his grass if I need to.

Some, some of his cows
are running with mine.

He was he was gifted some cows
as a wedding gift 10 years ago.

And when we finally moved back
to the neighborhood, he said,

Blane, you're the grass guy.

I'll turn my cows in with yours.

If we need to turn them out on my side
for a period of time, we can do that.

So, in total, I've probably got 120
grazeable acres that I can utilize.

So being a disciple or an educator
of regenerative grazing, regenerative

agriculture through my career
was, was chomping at the bit to

get started on my own operation.

We closed on this place in April of
22, and then I think when we came and

toured the property, that was the last
time it rained that particular year.

In 2022, just a mile to the north
where the edge of Ulagal Lake comes

in, that was flooded when we purchased
the place, so we couldn't even take,

we couldn't even go up to road 27
because the road was flooded and.

After May 15th, I don't think it
rained a bit the rest of 2022.

So the good

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: a few years
with really nice spring rains that

once it turns dry, it turns dry.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
and, and call that a double edged sword.

It, it, it benefited me greatly.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Oh yeah,

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547: I'll

tell you why.

So I had a, I had a farm service agency
cow loan burning a hole in my pocket,

but from the time we closed in April
till we moved up here in June, it was

already starting to turn a little dry.

So I simply said, I'm just going
to wait and see what happens.

So, two

excellent things happened.

Number one, this grass got a
rest and recovery period that

I don't think it has ever had.

This was a lease

pasture before this and when we toured
the place it was pretty obvious that

their idea was we're going to take every
blade of grass out here, leave nothing

but the bark on the trees.

And we even ended up finding a dead cow
from, from the, from the landless sea.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: oh yeah,

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
So, from April till essentially October,

during the growing season, this got
a rest that it probably never had.

And then about the time people were

looking to start to disperse some,
some livestock, I had a friend of mine

that lives just up the road named Jeff
O'Connor, who had some cattle that had

some Pharaoh Cattle Company genetics.

He was, He was also a regenerative
grazing practitioner doing daily moves,

high intensity grazing type stuff.

And he was trying to get rid of some
older cows and I was really interested

in the genetics and the cows that
were already broke to a system.

So I purchased 10 head from him in October
and I purchased some from my father to

kind of put together a little mix match
herd and I jumped in head first October.

I think it was, well, if
today's the 17th, it was.

It had to have been October 15th of 22.

We had hot wire rolled out ready to go.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: oh yeah.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547: I'm

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Let's,
let's jump to that time, getting

your place ready for cattle.

You, you bought this place, what
did you do to get it ready for those

cows coming

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
okay.

One, I was very fortunate.

I have a spring fed pond and I have good
six strand perimeter barbed wire fencing.

So,

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: so
nice, you, you had a good

working perimeter

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
yes, I didn't have to

worry anything about that.

My biggest concerns were how to implement
some kind of grazing paddock and allow

livestock to come back to water and

adding infrastructure, electric
fencing to the perimeter fencing.

So, first off, I literally went
to Orsland's down the road here

in Nahuatl and bought the biggest
solar charger that they had, which I

found out later was not near enough.

To, to do what I needed to
do, with running multiple

wires you know, the, the ignorance of,
of being a, a new disciple, I guess.

So, the cows that were already
broke that I purchased from Jeff

O'Connor, they were a godsend,
because they, they helped train.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Oh yeah.

They knew

what was going

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
They knew what a hot wire was

They were, they were just fine
being in, in smaller spaced areas.

So part of my career mindset is I'm
trying to utilize this as a demonstration

farm, not just my own operation.

So I, I like

to tell people I am as scientifically
unscientific as possible, I am trying

to implement methods that other people
would, lemme rephrase that it's.

I'm trying not to get, be too excessive
that people don't want to try it.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Right.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
want to,

every, every practice I
implement, I run through my mind.

It's usually, is this
something my dad can do?

Is this something a, a, a

general 65 year old farmer, retiree,
you know, my father, he drives a

school bus for the school still.

So he's got off farm responsibilities.

But are the things that I'm
implementing on my operation something

that can be mimicked by anybody
else in agriculture production?

But,

I am meticulous in my data collection
photos maintaining records and,

and, and having, trying to have
some sort of scientific explanation

for anything I try to do.

If that makes sense.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Yeah.

I think that's great.

And I'll be honest, that's the
part I don't do a good job on.

We, we collect a fair amount of
data for our cattle, but actually

for the land, I don't do good
enough, good enough job doing that.

I've started keeping more records of it
the last few years, but that's an area.

And one thing you
mentioned there was photos.

Photos are really nice because you can
see progression that you've forgotten.

So, you, you can go back and you can be
like, yeah, we made improvement here, but

you pull up a photo, you're like, oh, wow.

I forgot we were there.

Are you doing anything to, to make
sure you're photograph, photographing,

taking pictures of the same area?

Or are you just doing it as
you're out there each day?

How, how are you managing

that?

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
D all of the above.

I, I have, I

try to recreate set point photos.

Thankfully I've

got some pretty obvious
landmarks on my place.

I've got a water tower
in one corner over here.

I've got a tree line, a very obvious tree
line that is repeatable in several photos.

And try to use those as my,
as my points of reference.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Which
is a great way to do that.

Find something that's, that's not changing
or that's, that's notable enough, a

landmark there that you can put in
your photos and you know where you're

looking each time.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
so, so, just kind of, just any general

day, if I'm rolling out a new stretch
of hot wire to build a new paddock,

Again, super unscientifically scientific.

I will hang a wire, I will count down
two fence posts, and hang a wire, and

go, my pasture is a quarter mile
across by half a mile long where I

do the bulk of my intensely managed

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
I don't have quite the infrastructure

I need on my brother in law's
place, so we might give them bigger

paddock size, but I usually utilize
him for winter grazing anyway.

Bye.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
So active growing season, I just step

off two fence post lengths and hang
a hot wire and go across the pasture.

Now I've done the exact calculation,
it comes out to like 885 acres.

So 24 head

of adult cows, any given stage
of gestation, if they've got

calves on them, if they don't.

So I know exactly how many livestock
I've got, I know the exact amount

of square footage doing daily moves.

However I'm just like anybody else.

I get home late.

I'm working my career outside of
the farm where I get home at 9

I might unintentionally, intentionally
say, I'm going to leave those

cows in there an extra day.

Is it going to hurt anything?

Eh, but I'm going to take pictures of it.

I'm going to note it in my records.

You could, you could bring up the
aerial photography from my ranch

that's been updated on Google recently.

And I actually see the grazing
strips across my property and I can

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547: to

exactly where I did that
double grazing event.

Just based off, just based

off the change in, in, in
the, the color of the grass.

And I've got follow ups

of that where you can't tell
there was any difference.

Even though it was a essentially a
double grazing event, pretty excessive.

I took it down probably
more than I should have.

But learning from some other
guys who utilize ultra high

density grazing.

They might say, well, yeah, you
took, you had a little bit excessive

utilization, but that's going to have
a myriad of other positive benefits.

Either you look at you know, the,
the flush of root exudates that come

after a grazing event that feed the
microbiology that allow for a more

rapid recovery of that plant community.

So that, that all being said,
I'm doing daily moves 24 head

of cows on about an acre.

There's, there's some

spots in the property as I
graze closer to my house.

I've got to do a little bit of a shift
and shake it around some wooded areas.

What I've done with my watering point
is I've got one pond in the corner.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: But before you
get there, Blane, I do want to go there.

I just want a little
clarification on your daily moves.

Are you running, are they in a, not a
half mile, are they in a quarter mile long

strip?

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547: Yes

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: I
thought that's what you were

saying.

I just wanted to make

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
yeah, it's, it's a, it's

a quarter mile wide.

I don't know if we'll be able to see
this on, on, on the camera, but here's

a map I have of my property and I'll try

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Oh, I

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
without a

glare.

You can see on this side, this is an area
that I had not grazed yet, and you can

see the strips as we come across.

That double grazing event
was back about right there.

You can see a little bit of a
difference in color variation.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Oh,

yes.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
We're getting a little bit, we're getting

a little bit of glare on, on that, but.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Yeah.

Actually.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
this area

of photography is invaluable not just from

a planning standpoint, but you
can kind of track track change

over time, just, just through when

Google updates their area of photography.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: And one
thing on that, that's really minor,

your lines are pretty straight.

I, I've got an 80, I've got
least, and I've got a high tensile

running down the middle of it.

So, I'm only going eighth of
a mile on any of my strips.

And some days I get out there
and I'm thinking Was I drinking

before I made that strip?

Because this one I don't

know.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547: That

was me, that was me

last year.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Oh yeah.

So, So, how are you doing it so your

lines are so good.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
I've got a little Honda Rancher foiler,

I've got a set of binoculars hanging
on the handlebars, and I'm thankful

I've got just enough of a gentle slope
for the majority of the property.

I can see to the To the other side.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: oh,

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
the way

I utilize my my paddock setup is
so there'll be a lane that the

cows are already in and I will have

the next two grazing
paddocks already set up.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Oh,

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547: So,

so I go out there five o'clock
in the evening, get off work.

Come in, it's time to move
the cows to the next paddock.

I'll prop a hot wire up
with a piece of PVC pipe.

When they see me coming on the
four wheeler, they know it's

time to roll to the next paddock.

So, they'll go into the next paddock,
I'll lower that wire, and then I'll

immediately roll up the back wire.

that was behind the
paddock that they were just

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Right,

that

they just left.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
And then I'll go hop out another

two, two grazing paddocks ahead
or so and put that wire out.

So I just get my binoculars out,
look across that field and say, okay,

there's, there's the reel hanging
on the fence from the last wire.

It's going to be close and just
kind of eyeball it and let it rip.

Away we go.

If we got a

little bend or a little, little
bit of little curve or angle in it,

doesn't, doesn't hurt my feelings but
I just know as long as I stepped off

those two fence post lengths, that's
about 30 feet wide for, for, for my

fence post spacing.

And take her across and I've got the
paddock set up for the next two days.

And the reason I keep a couple paddocks
set up out in front is, you know, I get

tied up, have a late evening, or I've
got a couple days where I'm out of town.

I'm trying to set this up where
my loving wife, she can run out

there on that four wheeler, prop
a hot wire up, and move the cows.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Oh,

yeah.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
That's another aspect of regenerative

or mannish grazing is it's got
to be wife friendly and my wife.

She's she's she's

very interested in the goings on.

She loves working with the cow.

She loves being out there
outside do anything to help.

So, Having it set up to where
she can manage it on her own

without a lot of assistance or
input when I'm not there, it, it

is' invaluable 'cause we can
continue the operation with,

with, with minimal interruption.

Now it depends on, she's a
school teacher, so she gets home.

She, if she's just beat after a
long day at school, she can just

go prop the wire up, move them,
and, and not worry about anything

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
And then I can come back the next day,

and they still have another paddock
set up that they can move into.

I just have to go move
two wires instead of one.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Oh

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
me 30

minutes instead of 15 minutes.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Now did, did you
say on your lanes that you're giving them

on your paddocks, you've got a lane set

up back to

water?

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547: Yes,
so, I'll get my picture back out if we can

keep from getting too much glare on it.

So I have a pond here
on the southwest corner.

So I have a water lane set up
along the perimeter fence on

the south side of my property.

So every, every one of

these grazing strips will come down
here and I have a piece of PVC pipe.

That props up the water alley.

Essentially, it's my water gate.

So they'll graze down the strip, come
back here, and I've got a water point

with a tank at the overflow of my pond.

And they can come back,
graze, Go to water.

I usually start my grazing on the east
side, so that allows my water alley to

recover as well as my grazing strips.

It is a

sacrifice area and I utilize it as such,
but it's about 20 feet wide water alley

that those cattle can come down the
grazing strip, go to water, and come back.

But that's had some
unseen benefits as well.

It's an excellent fire break.

I've got

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: yeah.

It would

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
We're one of the last properties

before you get down to Ulagal Lake.

There's a lot of public hunting area.

And, not to talk bad about anybody, but
we get some derelicts and degenerates

that either throwing cigarettes out the
window or lighting fires on purpose.

I sleep at night knowing that if I got
a south wind, I'm And somebody throws a

cigarette out the window, it's going to
burn up to that water alley and go out.

Because those livestock have

trampled that down.

Most of the time it's pretty
bare soil, closer to the pond.

The plant community that's further
away from the pond, it can recover

just as well as the grazing strips.

And I've actually

had the ability to utilize that
as a little bit of an extra, or

a little bit of a grazing patch.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Yeah.

That works really good for you utilize it.

Have that lane going to the pond.

Now, did I.

You, you're running your poly wire from
fence to fence and you're using a PVC

pipe to prop it up so that they can

get in that alley to

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
Yes so back to the issue

of having enough power.

I utilized a, I started
with a solar PARMAC charger.

It was one of those, it's
like two and a half joules of

stored energy, and I think if

I only had cows that were already
previously hot wire broke, I

think it would have been okay.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Oh,

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
Invariably,

you always have a couple gals in the
bunch that they're just not team players.

They're gonna, they're
gonna exploit the loopholes.

They're gonna find the low spots.

They're gonna, they're gonna figure
out that I can get underneath that

wire and it only hurts for that much.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Oh, yeah.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
So, but once one of them starts

figuring out, they start teaching
those bad habits to the rest of them.

So, I, I fought that for
pretty much all of 20, the fall

and into the winter of 2022.

So, combined with,

we didn't, we weren't getting good
electric current through grounding

because the soils were so dry.

I end up having to run a double
wire every time I moved, and because

of that, I essentially only had
two paddocks set up at a time.

So, sometimes

if I couldn't get to them or had to,
couldn't set up an additional paddock I,

I was utilizing it a little bit heavier
than I wanted to, but it was still

during the winter going into the spring.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Oh,

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
So, in summer of 2023 we were

blessed with average moisture
depending on if, when we got it.

And I, I went ahead and splurged for
a Speedrite 6000i charger, energizer,

with the

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547:
And that's got the

remote.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
Always buy the remote, that, that thing

is the best thing since sliced bread.

I'll tell anybody who will

listen.

A side note though, my charger just
quit working about three days ago.

Not sure what happened.

ran some tests.

It did some blinking like things
and I'm gonna probably end up having

to send it back to Datmars to have
it either repaired or replaced.

It's still under warranty.

Don't know what happened there, but up
until then it was working wonderfully.

And

then what I did was I, I did an offset
high tensile wire along my perimeter.

I did that for two reasons.

I, I could have ran one right across the
center of the property long ways and,

and could have done grazing off one side,
off the other side, and made it work.

But the, the width, the quarter mile
width of the property I still think I'm

getting fair to decent utilization without
having to deal with another permanent

wire that if I don't like it, I got to

spend a lot of time taking it back down.

So the, the high tensile along

the perimeter is essentially just a
anchor point that I can go anywhere

I need to and not have to worry about
moving a solar charger closer or farther

away or worry about re grounding it.

I've got I've got six of those six foot
ground rods in the ground at the house

hooked up to the high tensile wire.

I've got six jewels of, of
pop everywhere I need it.

And, and that's been, that's been the,
the best investment I've made so far.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Oh, yeah.

Well, a good energizer will change
your opinion of rotational grazing.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
Absolutely.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: poor one will
cause you to give it up faster than

you thought you would, and a good one
will make you continue longer than

you thought you might.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
through, through conversations with other

producers, either, either producers that
had been doing it for quite a while.

Yeah.

You know, the opportunity to go to
a lot of these grazing management

conferences through my career not only
to help facilitate me as an educator,

but to take stuff home for my own
operation, you know, to hear the, the,

the gurus like Jim Garish and Greg Judy,

who Have forgotten probably more
than, than I've learned, but having,

having Jim Garris speak in an event up
in Kansas two years ago and he, he wrote

the blueprint on here's what I do, here's
what you probably need to do, everything

from fencing design, anchors, high
tensile to the, the energizers you need.

So having the ability to
listen to him flip the switch,

it says I was undergunned.

I didn't have enough electric
power going to deter these

livestock.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Yeah.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
Kind of a little bit of a side benefit.

It keeps the whitetail deer
from, from testing it as much.

Once they figure out, once they

figure out they run through
it one time and it lights them

up, they don't just sprint

across my pasture anymore.

They kind of, you know, they'll

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: right.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
their

sweet time trotting across there.

And I hope they still do that here in
November when gun season rolls around.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Oh, Yeah.

Yeah.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
ulterior motives

and extra benefits, I guess.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547:
yeah, yeah, slow him down.

I, I know when this lease property,
when I first put up my wire,

yeah, I had some deer issues, but.

But now I don't have any.

But, and I put it down the center,
but going, doing it again, I

think I'd do a perimeter and with
longer runs, I was thinking, well,

that's less walking, except now my
wire's not quite where I want it.

And I'm thinking about splite or
cutting it right in the middle so I

can have some different lanes going.

So yeah keeping that area open
so you can make adjustments

as you need to in the future

works really good.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547: You
know, don't, don't don't build yourself

into a box that you can't get out of, I
guess would be a good way to put that,

so, that, and I'm not, I'm not running
any particular brand or kind, I'm a,

I'm a mix match kind of guy, I, I, I
utilize several different brands of post,

I've, I've got O'Briens on my, what I
call my semi permanent, So my, my, my

water lane and I've got a couple wires
that I leave just for, okay, if I need

to hem them up in the corner to get
them to the lot, leaving that one wire

in one particular place is easier to
catch them on a, you know, on a terrain

feature where the, where, where they

already like to go back to shade.

I leave one wire up just to kind of,
if I need to catch them and spill

them in that alley, I, I utilize that.

But I've got, I've got Gallagher
Reels, Tarragate Reels,

O'Brien Post, Gallagher Post.

Speed right, charger.

It's all, it's just, I've put together
kind of a blend of what works for me.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Oh yeah.

I got

two questions on that.

First one's a real simple numbers
question about how many reels are you

using each day or not using each day,
but you're needed out there for your

cattle setup.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
Since I'm a pretty small

operation, I have six reels total.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Oh

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
I try to have four of those out

in my grazing pattern every day.

So, four reels means I've
got three lanes set up.

The lane they're in, the lane they'll
go into tomorrow, and then if I don't

have time to go, set it up, they'll have
a reel to go into the, the third day.

And then I usually keep one

hanging.

I've got a little mini reel hanging
on the four wheeler if I just need to,

if I just need to make a spin out and
get around a cow that's gotten out.

You want to talk fringe benefits.

You know, if you leave some thatch out
there in your grassland and that hot

wire is laying about 12 inches off the
ground and that cow that knows what it is.

Even though it's not up there at that 36
inch height where she normally sees it,

if I just jump on that four wheeler and
make a big circle around her, and just re

and just hold on to it, and that wire kind
of wants to swing in around her, she'll

tuck tail and go back where she needs to

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547: So,
you know, utilizing that cow psychology.

And then I, I, I've just got one
reel hanging at the house as a

spare if I need to, if I need to

go do something squirrelly different
cross fence something, or really

what I use it for most often is if
my neighbor's cows get on to me.

I can just

do kind of a quick alleyway to one of
the either gates on either end that,

that adjoined myself and my neighbor
get his cows back where they need to go.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
Another negative of managed grazing is

when you've got grass and your neighbor
doesn't, your fences all start to lean.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547:
Or start leaning in.

Yeah.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
start getting that little bit of

an angle on it.

I've got a neighbor, he's a great
guy but he's, he's kind of one of

those, if there's a blade of grass out
there left at the end of the growing

season, it's something he's wasted.

He's got the prettiest patch
of broomweed in the county.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: oh yeah.

Well, at least your
fences aren't leaning out.

We have a couple fences along the
road leaning out and it drives my dad

crazy because they're leaning out.

But, it wasn't the goats, it wasn't the
sheep, it wasn't the cattle that did that.

I had a few llamas and the llamas
will stick their head through

that fence and push on it and it's

it's goat wire So they will stick
their head through it and graze

I'm down to one llama now, and I
don't think she'll get replaced.

She'll finish out her time here but
those are the animals that pushed

our fence leaned it over some and Dad
cannot stand those fences leaning.

Well, I don't want to see any leaning
fences either but It drives him crazy

And, and that llama will reach out there
and you can see how far she can reach on

the bar ditch, and why is she doing that?

Beats me.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
Because she can.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: She can,
yeah, because you know, it's, it's

about like a horse reaching out there.

She's got quite the reach on it.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
yeah,

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: The other
thing about your lanes, before we move

on to our overgrazing section, shade,
do you have enough trees out there?

Do your cows, is shade a factor for

you?

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
Yes I've got shade.

So, my 80 acre block, I've
got shade on one end and I've

got shade on the other end.

I've got nothing in the middle.

So, as such, I try to utilize those
unshaded areas during, Spring, fall,

time where, where the thermal impact's
not going to be as big of an issue.

I mean, I'm not going to

say you're not going to catch a 95 plus
degree day in May where as soon as they

get done grazing in the morning, they're
all going to wad up in the, in the water

alley where there's, you know, I've

got some hackberry stuff growing in, in
the fence row just along the perimeter

that depending on the time of year will,
will catch a little bit of a southern

lean and, and provide some shade.

Again, it doesn't really bother me
if they're hanging out in that water

alley because it's, it's a fire
break and it's, it's, it's already

established sacrificed area anyway.

So I try to, I try to plan my grazing.

If I'm, if I'm making a move through
the property, they're grazing the open

areas that have limited shade during
the non impactful days, spring and fall.

When it's,

it's 105 and hot, I got them
on either end of the pasture.

It kind of, kind of depends
on where we started.

I maybe make it a nice pattern
across there, and if it turns

105 and it's hot, it's muggy.

I may skip 20 days worth of grazing strips
and get them into shade and utilize that.

And then kind of start over at
square one where they have shade

on the other end of the property.

And so,

Always a factor.

Just, just kind of got to
play that with the weather.

The, the good Lord deals you
a good hand or a bad hand.

You just kind of got to, got
to make lemonade out of lemons.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Right.

And have the flexibility to do that.

Yes.

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cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: And we're going
to take a deeper dive into something

about your operation or, or you.

And today we're going to talk
about rangeland equality.

I almost said equality, but
maybe that's the wrong word.

Rangeland ecology and
restoring ecology Ecological.

Boy, you know, once you get past one
or two syllables, I have trouble.

So, so we're gonna talk about rangeland

ecology.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
Yes, yes.

So, like we said in the beginning I
wouldn't be where I'm at today without

my love for the rangeland ecosystem.

It just, I don't know what it
sets it apart from other grazing

scenarios, grazing systems go
to other parts of the world.

There's just, nothing's really cool
about Bermuda grass and fescue.

That's, those are the two
major grass bases that we have

here in northeast Oklahoma.

And nothing against those, those species.

They make great forage for livestock.

You know, fescue's got its
issues you gotta deal with.

Bermuda grass has some Issues as well.

You know, Bermuda grass behaves
as well as you take care of it.

It's kinda like, I, I joke with
my producers, it's kinda like,

my ex-girlfriend, she, you,
you kept spending money on her.

She kept looking really good.

So with, with native Rangeland, it.

It's, it's what shaped this ecosystem
for, for eons were two, made two

major impacts, fire and grazing.

So, we've worked with partners through
my professional career, but they

had a, you know, their conservation
mindset was one of exclusion.

We're going to remove all impacts,
and there's no better way to screw

up an ecosystem if you remove all
the impacts that, that shaped it.

So we've got some

nature conservancy partners that
have some property in South Central

Oklahoma that when they were donated
the property, there was the stipulation

of, well, we want to set this aside.

So we don't want to
have any cows out here.

We want to just have wildlife.

And the ecosystem is, is, is, is
essentially in suspended animation.

It's not functioning correctly because
they've removed that grazing impact.

So,

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Yeah.

It wasn't created

without that grazing

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547: yes.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: yeah.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
So, marrying a You have two worlds, or

at least in my world, of, of grazing
systems management and rangeland ecology.

You can't have one without the other.

So, most of the listeners have probably
heard this in some form or fashion.

The Great Plains were shaped by bison.

Massive migratory herds of bison.

There were historic accounts of
the Great Southern Buffalo Herd.

Six to seven million animals estimated.

And they would move as a mob.

They would move across this ecosystem,
creating a tremendous impact.

Ninety to one hundred percent
of forage utilization.

If you've seen the movie Dances
with Wolves, where this buffalo

herd stampede, if they didn't eat
it, they certainly trampled on

it, urinated, and manured on it.

So, it, it was just a tremendous
impact, but then that long rest

and recovery period that these
grazing lands essentially evolved

with, allowing that plant community
to recover, and not, but they all

didn't recover with the same species.

It's what we call ecological succession.

So after a major disturbance, you would
have the early successional species.

We usually call them weeds.

So, if we

took a tillage scenario, so a farmer's
out there plowing the ground, or he plows

up sod, Use the pioneers, for example,
that first succession of plants that tried

to come back and repopulate were weeds.

They were tall, rank, nasty
stuff that probably tasted bad to

livestock, probably had stickers,

pokers, and thorns on it.

That plant was bioengineered to
resist grazing impact to allow

recovery for the next succession.

You know, the mid successional species.

We start to look at species
like side oaks, grama.

Several other different grass,
forb, and legume species that

their job was to fill in the gap
after the weeds had done their job.

And then the, the tertiary or, or the,
the secondary succession of the mature

blue stems, switchgrass, indiangrass, at
least for a tallgrass prairie scenario,

where, where I'm at in northeast

Oklahoma was historically
tallgrass prairie.

So, utilizing the, the methods of, of
High intensity regenerative grazing,

whatever term you choose to utilize,
adaptive multi paddock grazing, if you

want to use total grazing, high density.

We're shooting for the same target,

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Right.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
truly the recreation of this

method of grazing restores the
function of that ecosystem.

Everything from the growth and
regrowth of these grasses, who are

ecologically evolved to tolerate.

a fair amount of grazing as
long as they get an appropriate

rest and recovery period.

I recently had the opportunity to

go through and vet the Noble Research
Institute's Essentials of Grazing course,

and they do a wonderful job of reinforcing
the idea of there's no way you can harm

a grass base in a single grazing event.

You can, you can turn a million
pounds of livestock onto an acre

and let them, I don't want to say
demolish it, but, but excessive

utilization, but as long as you get
those cows off of that impact and

allow appropriate rest and recovery,
grass, water, sun, everything relative.

Give it 60 to 90 days.

I tell my producers, don't
mow your yard for 90 days.

What happens then?

They say, oh, my grass is thick
and rank and well, that's what

your pasture could look like too.

Utilizing the

same methods.

What do we do with our,
when we mow our yards?

We have a tremendous impact and
a long rest and recovery period.

Now, we're just trading a cow for
a lawnmower, but the impact is

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Oh, Yeah.

It's the same thing.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
We're recycling those nutrients.

Where we see in a lot of our
set stock, continuous grazing

scenarios, a lot of the, the highly
palatable species get grazed down.

The unpalatable species
increase and overtake.

We're talking species like broom
sedge bluestem, perennial and

annual threons long spike tridens
here in northeast Oklahoma.

If you're in some wetter areas, it might
be prairie cordgrass, but there's a whole

suite of species that, they belong to
the ecosystems, they're native species,

but as you continually, selectively
remove their competition, that being

the high quality, high palatability
species, that's when they start increasing

overtaking, and when it gets to be such a

problem, we hear farmers
say, well, how do I kill it?

I said, and It's essentially, it's not
how to kill it, it's what management

scenario have we been in for 20 plus years
that caused this to be such a problem.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Oh,

yeah.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
for a lot of years, or at least

in my collegiate professional
development, you know, it was it

was we were addressing symptoms.

We weren't looking at the causes of these

problems.

So the more I studied and the more I
learned about regenerative grazing as an

ecosystem function, not just a grazing
management plan for, for the sake of

pure profitability or, or management
or reduction of input costs, whichever

avenue you want to approach that from.

It's truly the restoration of
that ecosystem function that

allows those native grasses.

To one, provide a forage base,
two, do their ecosystem function

below ground with the soil.

We talk a lot about soil health.

It's, it's, it's, the impact of
grazing, removing the tops of

those plants, triggers a flush
of root exudates below the soil.

So those, those roots are leaking out
sugary liquids to attract microbes.

Those microbes break down process
cycle and recycle nutrients.

And as long as there's an appropriate
rest and recovery period where the

plants can then grow, put out solar
panels, then put carbon back down

into their roots, we could talk about
how the carbon cycle is affected.

We could talk about how the
water cycle is affected.

If we have the ebb and flow of the root
reduction after a grazing event and then

the root regrowth, After that rest and
recovery period, you know, we're talking

about fracturing soil profiles open
to where they can hold more moisture.

We're in a D3 drought right now.

We mentioned earlier that you
know where your few blades of

green grass are in your pasture.

Well, I know

exactly where my green grasses are in
my pasture, and excluding the low lying

areas that gets a little bit of sub
irrigation from the pond, I can tell you

exactly the grazing event that occurred.

In certain areas and how it relates to
the greenness because I've got a few

strips where just on Accidentally
on purpose I double grazed a water

alley just to see what would happen
so I got home late one night and I

said, I'm just going to leave those
cows in that strip an extra day and

they'll either herd it or they won't.

And I've got a nice visual strip of,
it's not much of a difference, but

that grass is just a tiniest shade of
green greener than the strip before it

or the strip after it.

So, so seeing a little bit of
a tangible benefit from that.

Just kind of reinforces the fact that
you, you can't hurt these, these grassland

species in a single grazing event.

They can handle it.

They can take a licking and keep
on ticking, but you got to give

them that rest and recovery.

And then we, then for, for the rangeland
ecology purpose, we talk about intrinsic

benefits, wildlife, earthworms,
the, the biology that comes in.

And, and we still don't have
a good grip on the total.

soil biome as far as the ecological
functions of different microorganisms,

bacteria, fungus, protozoa.

We just know that if we do the grazing,
the correct management in a correct

fashion, we get the benefits from it,
even if we don't know how it works.

I tell people, I drive my truck every day.

I don't know how to work on the
engine, but I trust it to work.

As long as I do the maintenance
and take care of it.

I change the oil, tune her

up every, every couple of years,
make sure all the fluids are topped

off, but I trust that system to work
as long as I do the maintenance.

And that's, that's grazing management
and rangeland ecology in a nutshell.

If we do the management and the
maintenance, it'll continue to work for

you in a pretty efficient, Thanks so much.

I don't say low input, but reduced
input manner that ultimately we can run,

either run more cows on smaller acreages
and put more money in our pockets.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Yeah, which,
you know, we have these noble goals

and and everything, but at the end
of the day, if you're not getting

more money in your pocket, you're not

going to be around to

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547: That
was, that was what I fought with when I

first entered my career in conservation
because we were so exclusionary.

It was almost like, you could
get government conservation

assistance, to do nice things at
the expense of your operation.

Yeah, we'll, we'll go, we'll go

plant you some range plants, but
then you have to exclude grazing

as part of your conservation plan.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Oh, yeah.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
And, and

I know it's to, to
establish those species.

You don't want to over, you don't
want to graze those species before

they're, they're ready, of course,

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Right.

squadcaster-6ja7_1_10-17-2024_175547:
but again, those exclusionary

practices just never did sit well
with me when, as a, as a producer.

You know, I was always of the
mentality of if we're having to

exclude anything, is it doing any good?

Whether it's excluding

the grazing or exclusion of species
that should be in the ecosystem

that we've removed through
essentially poor grazing practices.

cal_1_10-17-2024_175547: Right.

Yeah.

Well, Blane,

it's time for us to transition
to our famous four questions

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