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The built hapily podcast is about building apps, companies, and relationships in the HubSpot ecosystem. As HubSpot grows, so does the opportunity - and this podcast puts you in the room with the people making it all happen.
Hosted by Dax and Max, built hapily goes behind the scenes with HubSpot developers, solutions partners, startup founders and community leaders. Each episode delivers tactical insights into launching and scaling businesses around the HubSpot platform.
However, this podcast is about more than just building software. It's about building authentic connections, fulfilling careers, and lives you can be proud of. Guests share their personal journeys, hard-won lessons and philosophies for not just achieving success, but finding purpose and happiness along the way.
After all, this is about more than making apps. It's about building hapily - and you're invited along for the ride. Join Dax, Max and their guests to construct the life you've been dreaming of, one conversation at a time.
bhp S2E12 - Brian & Jason, Profoundly
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[00:00:00] you get 50 proposals from a bunch of people who maybe can barely even like log into HubSpot, like don't actually have meaningful experience in the product. You go to community and get some resources to do it yourself, but like there's, there was never, there was no great option for seriously qualified, vetted, done for me help, and that's what profoundly is.
[00:00:21] And you, you know, it's like, to Jason's point, just the scope of what we see is it runs the. Gammit, you've got five, six figure needs and two, three figure needs. Like the point is if you need help, you can find it here and it's easy.
[00:00:36]
[00:00:54] On this week's episode of the built hapily podcast, we've got Jason Azakar, Brian [00:01:00] Garvey, two All Stars coming in from profoundly.
[00:01:02] Jason and Brian tell us the story of how they created profoundly from the ground up, from the rumblings of the first idea to its conception, getting their founding pros and what the future looks like for the platform and its impact on the HubSpot community. All that and more on this episode of the built hapily podcast.
[00:01:21] Folks, welcome. Welcome to another episode of The Built Happily Podcast.
[00:01:27] We have some very special guests today. Uh, we have Jason and Brian from Profoundly here to tell us the story of how profoundly came to be. Uh, guys, we didn't give you any sort of prep. Or plan or script or questions or anything?
[00:01:48] Do we
[00:01:48] Uh, nor did I, I don't even know if we gave you any context what this show is about and what we actually do. Um, when we started this show a while ago, the plan was [00:02:00] that we wanted to talk to other people in the HubSpot. App ecosystem specifically, uh, that built apps. And we wanted to tell the story of how did you build it? Right? And, and what was that process like? And what we quickly realized is we probably make it through half a season. Uh, given that the pool of the amount of people that have done that is still quite small. Right. And what we realized is, uh, there's much more than, uh, that people have been building in the HubSpot. ecosystem, ethos, zeitgeist, however you wanna. Whatever you wanna call it. This world that we all this orange, wonderful world we all live in, right? There's a lot more than just apps. People have built, people have built they've built partners, they've built something cool in the tool. They have built apps, they've built careers for themselves. They've done some really wild things. Um, you guys have built something that [00:03:00] is probably one of the biggest fundamental shakeups to, uh, the world of. Partners and consulting and getting help with HubSpot. Uh, and we wanted you guys to come on today and like, tell us the story of how profoundly came to be and what you guys learned along the way and maybe you, what you're excited about, uh, for the future and how you guys built this thing. Does that sound like a good plan?
[00:03:27] Sounds like a great plan. Thanks for having, yeah.
[00:03:30] I want to tarantino this first. Um. to give you guys just a chance to like, introduce yourself, talk a little bit about like your history in the HubSpot world, uh, and then I'm gonna kind of have you guys explain what profoundly is after. Uh, and then we'll kind of go back in time, uh, to talk about how this all came together and then where we go from here. That sound good? Brian, do you wanna, you wanna kick us off?
[00:03:53] Sounds great. Again, thank you both for having us. We're excited to be here. It's great to see you both again. [00:04:00] Um, in terms of my background, so started off my career in management consulting. I led, uh, strategy at Amazon for a number of years, and then, uh, had the incredible fortune to join HubSpot. Uh, in the customer success organization, um, where I saw sort of firsthand, you know, got to know what customers are trying to do with HubSpot, a little bit about their businesses and so on, and sort of how we can help them, uh, grow better than ever.
[00:04:32] And, um, as part of that sort of, uh, those conversations. Had the opportunity to write a memo or a narrative coming from Amazon. I, I, for better or for worse, I brought the memo and the narrative from Amazon to HubSpot. Uh, wrote a memo, a narrative on how to scale differently, uh, through the channel, uh, which put me sort of on a glide path to lead the solutions partner and provider ecosystem, uh, for a number [00:05:00] of years, and had the incredible fortune to get to know those partners and work with those partners directly and those customers.
[00:05:08] Uh, scale massively. Uh, you know, our, we adopted the strategy to scale selling and servicing through, through expert partners, and, uh, that's what happened. So, uh, excited to be here and excited to be partnering with Jason on, uh, what we believe is, uh, a real enabler for customers and partners, um, to, to scale better with profoundly.
[00:05:31] Thank you, Brian. Jason,
[00:05:33] Love it.
[00:05:33] tell us your story.
[00:05:34] Thanks guys for having us. Really
[00:05:36] Yeah.
[00:05:37] Oh man, the story. Where to begin. So. I've been, been in the HubSpot ecosystem for what, what feels like forever. I mean, I, I got to HubSpot, so, uh, let's see. I joined HubSpot in 2012 as a tech recruiter. Which was a lot of fun.
[00:05:51] This was back in the days when the conversation around CRM was like, we have a CRM? Is it just a free thing? Would anybody like it? We don't know. [00:06:00] And it was, it was a lot of fun to listen to those conversations. got to be at HubSpot for three years. Ended up leading tech recruiting, which was, which was a blast. Left HubSpot in 2015. Did some consulting for a couple of years, uh, but drank an awful lot of the, you should probably be a founder at some point in your life. Kool-Aid. From, from the HubSpot folks. I mean, I think one of Dharmesh favorite lines is like, if you're ready to start something, do it. you're not ready, come to HubSpot for a few years.
[00:06:28] Get your, get your MBA in startups and then go do your thing. And that like lodged itself in my brain. So the, the plan was always to start something, uh, was really fortunate to, to start Hub Search in 2019, which. But has been laser focused on HubSpot from day one. I mean, if anyone doesn't know, it's a recruiting organization that's like completely focused on HubSpot.
[00:06:48] Like everything that hubs search does is HubSpot related, was amazing. Got to lead hubs search for a number of years. I'm now the former CEO of hubs. Search Bridget, my wife, stepped into that seat a few weeks ago. [00:07:00] Um, now get to get to build Profo, uh, profoundly with Brian. I mean, talk about hitting the, the co-founder lottery. Um, and, and to Brian's point, we, we think we've built, um. built something that fundamentally shifts the way that HubSpot folks from the HubSpot ecosystem get help with the product. And
[00:07:18] Like, so
[00:07:18] our mission is like enable people to get help, get maximum return on their HubSpot investment.
[00:07:24] yeah, so walk us through like, you know, so, so profoundly in a grand scheme of things just launched, right? Like. What Dax.
[00:07:36] The profound name that we stumbled, stumbled across. And finally of the, the, uh, the, the thing that snapped for us when we talked to our friends, Chris, uh, one of you guys', founding pros. Man, I've just, I've just been trying to hold my tongue, but called profoundly. We were like, [00:08:00] oh. Man, stop. Stop with the
[00:08:06] Hey, I, I clocked it. I clocked it the second I heard it, right. Uh, but yeah, we were, we talked about it with Chris, right? Uh, amazing name and I was gonna get there, dude. Because I do wanna know, I wanna, I wanna, I wanna build, I wanna build up a little bit, right? Because I know there was probably a moment where you guys thought of the name profoundly, and you went, oh, wow, that really makes sense, right?
[00:08:29] So I want to hear about that moment. Right? But before we get there, ' cause we're gonna get there, okay? wanna know. I like the buildup. Okay. I'm a, I'm a director. All right, so, so. Let's lay down the groundwork for anyone listening who hasn't heard of profoundly before, like what it just launched. What is it for anyone who doesn't know?
[00:08:52] Yeah, it's a platform. It's a marketplace where if you've got a HubSpot need, we've got an expert who can help you.
[00:08:59] Gotcha.
[00:08:59] [00:09:00] simple. We make it ridiculously easy to get the help you need with HubSpot.
[00:09:04] Awesome. So it's a place you could find prose.
[00:09:07] Yep.
[00:09:08] Um, so, so talk to us. Um,
[00:09:11] it's a great name. It's a great
[00:09:12] yeah, it's a great name. It's a great aim and I don't, I don't wanna get to it. Um, talk to us about like how the two of you collided right? And ended up what was like the first spark that like, led to this thing getting created and you guys kind of coming together and going, we should build this thing. Right. Um, tell me about the moment, the moments, me leading up to it, the conversations you guys were having, where the idea was sparked, how you got together. What do we need to know?
[00:09:44] Yeah.
[00:09:45] I love it. I'll, uh, I'll give it, so, okay, I'll, I'll give it to you from my side. So Brian and I have talked about this and we're sort of like murky on where the conversations actually began.
[00:09:53] Yeah.
[00:09:53] But at some point years ago, I don't know, three years is our, is our best estimate. Some point years ago we got [00:10:00] connected on LinkedIn.
[00:10:02] There was some common connection made and we were, we were chatting and obviously my, Brian was at HubSpot. My whole focus was hub search and Brian said something like, Hey, we should, we should meet, we should have a conversation. I had already moved to Cleveland at this point, so I wasn't in Boston and I don't know,
[00:10:16] Yeah.
[00:10:16] not sure Brian knew that. He basically said like, Hey, we should get together. We should meet. And I said, I will be on a plane tomorrow. I. I got my butt on a plane and flew to Boston
[00:10:26] Yeah.
[00:10:27] look at, at, at that point in my life, like everything. So Hubs search was laser focused on Solutions Partners. That was
[00:10:33] Yeah.
[00:10:33] to market.
[00:10:34] Like Hubs Search started by saying like, we're only gonna work with solutions partners.
[00:10:37] Mm-hmm.
[00:10:38] So at the end of the day when the guy who runs the Global Solutions Partner program goes, Hey, we should meet you, you book a plane ticket and you get your butt to Boston.
[00:10:47] Yeah.
[00:10:47] I did, we got the chat, we had a great dinner and we just kept the conversations going from there.
[00:10:51] Yeah, I, if you've spent any time with Jason, I think you immediately understand that he is from the not messing around crew. Like, [00:11:00] you know, we had an opportunity to connect and he literally did. It was in the evening that we were talking and he was on a plane first thing the next morning. And, uh, yeah, it was, it's been a, a great partnership.
[00:11:12] And I know, we'll, we'll talk about the name, which full credit goes to Jason for, for the name.
[00:11:18] Okay. Got it. So you it now. Is is what profoundly like launched at like in, its sort of like, we'll call it, obviously it's, it's new, it's gonna have a final form, but like final form as of today, right. this o was this the plan from the beginning or were there like alternate ideas on like how you guys were gonna do this?
[00:11:37] Like, tell me about how it's sort of like evolved and, and got to like where it is today.
[00:11:43] Yeah, I can start. So, um. This I, this is the vision. This is the vision. We wanted to make it ridiculously easy, as I mentioned, for, to your point, for people to find pros, for people to find the help that they need to grow [00:12:00] better with HubSpot. I think in all of our collective experience like it, it just wasn't as easy as we wished it were to have to find that help previously.
[00:12:11] Whether it's a customer or a partner who's looking for help or whomever. And then on the flip side, you know, you've got this army of HubSpot experts and pros who know and love HubSpot as well, or better than HubSpot does. Like they're doing incredible things on the platform. They're doing things on the platform no one ever dreamed of before.
[00:12:32] And yet, like, just because of the way things were, they don't have, they're not as discoverable as you know, they should be. And so we set out to, to make that whole process. As easy as humanly possible.
[00:12:49] And Yeah, because I, oh, go ahead Jason.
[00:12:51] I just
[00:12:51] Yeah.
[00:12:51] some context like. I tried to solve this thing a couple of times
[00:12:57] Yeah.
[00:12:57] failed miserably. Like at the missing, you know, [00:13:00] Brian was the missing piece. Dax, I, you probably remember this man years ago when, when we did some, we helped us with some stuff at Hub Search, like it was granted that context there was like, Hey, we should build, we should custom build an in-house a TS, which ended up being an insane idea, which is why we didn't fully do the thing. But we talked about like. There's gotta be another motion. You know? In other words, like my, my lens on the ecosystem for that time was from a recruiting organization, from a staffing company, and it's like, as much value can be there and as good as that motion can be for some, there's a, there is an awful lot of places where that just doesn't fit
[00:13:34] Yeah.
[00:13:34] But that, that, that, that doesn't solve the need. You know, there's still HubSpot customers, solutions partners that need talent, need to bring in somebody. Fantastic. And there wasn't, there wasn't a great option out there. So that's, that's part of what drove it for me.
[00:13:47] Yeah, and we.
[00:13:49] deal. It's a big deal for people that need, like the Solutions Partner program obviously. a, I wouldn't say it's very rigid, but it is exactly that. It is. I'm [00:14:00] coming. I'm usually coming to HubSpot. The path I wanna say is predefined. I'm coming to HubSpot. I'm recommended a partner. I onboard via that partner.
[00:14:08] That's how the relationship starts, and I'm intended to kind of carry on that relationship as I grow with HubSpot. But if you have HubSpot, you've known what you've needed, you've set it up yourself, you just have some questions. It's the. And some people don't want a partner. Some people just want a guy or they want a gal. And some people have a specific project and a lot of partners that will align with that because, you know, it's one project that I can't,
[00:14:33] Uh.
[00:14:33] I can't break my mode, break my stride for this one project to, it'll cost me too much to get you into our system, let alone do your, your small project. So, and that's just because of the nature of hub. Why and how big of a platform it is and things that gonna do. And early on, Jason, we first met, uh, years ago working on a project. We trying to. And what [00:15:00] yours turned into was Hub Search. This crazy big idea. What mine turned into is happily so, we all kind of made these, we've made the clay that we had ended up making these bigger things and not a lot of people have the opportunity because it's such a finite path. And when you open up the landscape for people that have built things that kind. Don't.
[00:15:33] Yeah,
[00:15:34] Yeah.
[00:15:34] and, and I, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm trying, I like, I think I've wrapped my head around like. The big problem profoundly kind of solves for, and like, maybe I can test that theory against you guys and you can tell me if I'm thinking about it the right way or if I'm not right.
[00:15:49] Love
[00:15:49] Um, so, you know, something, I, I definitely experienced a lot being, you know, someone in the HubSpot ecosystem that oftentimes people would come to me and be [00:16:00] like, Hey, do you know somebody that could help me with HubSpot? Right. And I would be in that awkward position of like, I know, I know partners. I know big, big bad partners with big teams. Not bad, but like, you know, partners with big teams with big price tags. Right. And like, 'cause that's, that's who I knew. Right. And there wasn't really like I. A way for me to just be like, oh yeah, I know this person.
[00:16:26] Like they're pretty good at X, Y, Z. Right? It was always like, all the people I know, they're gonna be doing project work for a partner that's gonna wanna get you on a retainer, or they're gonna wanna do like a, you know, it's, it's going to be outside what you're looking for. It's not just like a guy who's got like a couple hours that can like, help you with stuff here or there.
[00:16:42] Right?
[00:16:43] Yeah. Yeah.
[00:16:44] you how many times, like, uh, you know, I would. Maybe try to like, you know, send someone to George B. Thomas. And, and George was so busy, he was like, Hey, I got, you know, it's, you have to buy this many hours and it's gotta be this thing. And when the person just needed like a little bit of help.
[00:16:58] Right.
[00:16:59] Yeah.
[00:16:59] And at the same [00:17:00] time, I had plenty of like individual, I. HubSpot consultants or like up and coming HubSpot consultants that are just like, man, it is really hard to break into the HubSpot ecosystem, right? Like, I have no, I have no chance in hell of getting on the directory page because there's big, massive partners with huge budgets that do as, you know, a ton of work and get a ton of reviews and, and have the capacity to be able to be a, a company that's on that front page, which is all people are really looking at.
[00:17:30] Right? How do I. Break into this space, like is my only route to go get a job at a partner agency. Right? And so it was like this very interesting thing where of hub HubSpot customers, they don't quite need a partner, they just need a person. They need a pro. I. Right. Uh, and they don't need like a full gigantic engagement.
[00:17:51] Right? But then you had all these small people who could provide that. The issue is they, they couldn't get found by these people. 'cause the only avenue people had was like [00:18:00] talking to their sales rep to see which partner they recommend or like going on the directory. Other than that, you're kind of shit outta luck, right?
[00:18:06] Yeah.
[00:18:06] it very much feels like you guys are solving for that. Where it's like, if you are a, you know, a, a, a freelance HubSpot, you know, ninja that like knows you have the skills to do certain things in HubSpot, but like maybe you haven't been able to find a good home at a partner agency or like, frankly the, the job market's competitive.
[00:18:29] It's, it's not the easiest thing in the world to get a job at a, at a HubSpot partner agency. Right. Uh, it feels like you have a place now to be like your. Personal HubSpot partner directory or the marketplace that you're creating, right? Uh, and you have a way to now get found in an alternate way, and those people who need that versus the partner directory a way to find you.
[00:18:50] Am I thinking about it the right way?
[00:18:54] Yes, and I would say what what we've [00:19:00] attempted to solve is like for customers, it's harder to find the help you need.
[00:19:04] Mm-hmm.
[00:19:05] Uh, you know, that process, no matter who you want it from or the size of your project, like it, it can be cumbersome to find it, whether it's from a partner or an individual. Uh, and so what we've attempted to do in the, in the, on the platform is come as you are, tell us what help you need, and whatever words you have to describe it.
[00:19:25] We make that ultra simple and we're, we'll take it from there. You basically can find any type of help on the profoundly. Platform, whether that's an individual or large partners, like we are creating a center of gravity for HubSpot help. We don't want individual customers having to think like, well, if I have a problem here, I gotta, I know this person.
[00:19:47] Or if I have a problem here, I have to go to somebody else. It's like, if you've got a problem or a need, we can help you with that.
[00:19:56] Yeah, well, max, the size of the project is an important distinction. It's like [00:20:00] we've
[00:20:00] You know.
[00:20:00] wonderfully surprised by seeing some big, meaty projects come through the product, which is, which is awesome. Like people are coming to profoundly and posting like full integration projects, which is amazing. But on the smaller side of it, you know, let's say you're a HubSpot customer and you, you're like, but this thing is broken.
[00:20:16] Like I got two workflows that aren't five. I need like six or eight hours of help.
[00:20:20] Mm-hmm.
[00:20:20] Where the hell do you go for that before profoundly like there's, there really was just no option unless you already knew
[00:20:26] You post on LinkedIn about it and hope you find
[00:20:29] Yeah.
[00:20:29] exactly the thing. You roll the dice, like you go
[00:20:32] Yep.
[00:20:32] and you get 50 proposals from a bunch of people who maybe can barely even like log into HubSpot, like don't actually have meaningful experience in the product. You go to community and get some resources to do it yourself, but like there's, there was never, there was no great option for seriously qualified, vetted, done for me help, and that's what profoundly is.
[00:20:54] And you, you know, it's like, to Jason's point, just the scope of what we see is it runs the. [00:21:00] Gammit, you've got five, six figure needs and two, three figure needs. Like the point is if you need help, you can find it here and it's easy.
[00:21:11] And we've tried to be so intentional about building the, the, the pros that we have on the product are unbelievable.
[00:21:16] Mm-hmm.
[00:21:17] we're just over a hundred pros. They're amazing. we've tried to be super intentional about building a really diverse set of skills, Like there are individuals who are super deep on one thing and there are HubSpot solutions partners that have really strong capability across a bunch of areas in the product and, and everything in between.
[00:21:37] Yeah. Yeah.
[00:21:40] Um, tell us that like, so. much of this, what, like, I always get, you know, get interested. It's like you're, you're, you're building a platform where, and like by the way, is, is is the, is it, is it supposed to be like mostly for HubSpot specific help. Are you guys like [00:22:00] branching out into other areas beyond that?
[00:22:02] Is it always gonna stray true to being like HubSpot specific help or is, are there plans to kind of like expand it outwards to like, I don't know, like WordPress or other CRMs or like whatever it may be?
[00:22:12] great question. Like we definitely have been approached to expand to other places. We are very focused on HubSpot in this moment, like, um, so that's our, that's our core. We also, because customers pull us there, like I. Connected App Partners is another area where we feel like the customer experience when they need help isn't what it should be.
[00:22:35] And so we wanna make that simple, right? No more ping ponging back and forth. Our experts know the app and they know HubSpot doesn't matter where the problem lies, they can fix it. And so like, I would say if, if you think about concentric circles, HubSpot's at the middle, and then the app partners are sort of the, the circle right around that.
[00:22:55] Nice. so I know we, we talked to Chris and he was one of the founding [00:23:00] pros, right?
[00:23:01] Yeah.
[00:23:01] for profoundly. Um, and, and it sounds like when you, when you guys kicked off originally, you had. of, a group of pros that were available through the platform and participating already.
[00:23:14] Can you like, talk us through like how you guys went about, like finding those people, vetting those folks, getting them bought in? Like what was the, what was the process of like, you know, getting that first, uh, cohort of pros, if you will, uh, leading up to the launch?
[00:23:32] Yeah, sure. Okay. Awesome question. So getting them bought in was the easy part for
[00:23:36] Yep.
[00:23:36] Like the minute we started talking about this thing and the value to the pro and putting HubSpot at the center of your career and making it the focus of the way you earn your living. People were like, hell yes. Sign me up.
[00:23:47] This is a, this is the biggest no-brainer in history. Thank God somebody's building it.
[00:23:50] Mm-hmm.
[00:23:51] way we approached building the early set of pros, it's was completely invitation only.
[00:23:56] Yep.
[00:23:56] first started, the first two cohorts, we probably got to [00:24:00] 65, 70 pros,
[00:24:02] Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
[00:24:20] meaningful, sophisticated, complicated work for whoever needed it.
[00:24:25] Yeah.
[00:24:25] that, and that was where we started. And I'm so glad we did it that way. Like today, e even true today.
[00:24:29] You can't just, you can't just join profoundly as a pro.
[00:24:31] Yeah.
[00:24:32] a, there's a deep vetting process. Like you have to go through an application process. You have to send in, references, like work examples. You gotta record a video talking about some of your most complicated work, et cetera. Like it's a, it's a pretty heavy application process.
[00:24:47] And we review each of those. We have conversations with, with every applicant before we say, all right, all right, come on in.
[00:24:52] Nice. So you're, you're, you're curating, you know, kind of like best of the best like HubSpot consultants that are like out there and [00:25:00] available for this kind of work.
[00:25:01] Yeah.
[00:25:01] percent. That's the goal. And it's not necessarily the most senior. Like there's people that been able to convince us, they've done real, legitimate, sophisticated, complicated stuff in the year and a half. They've been the space
[00:25:14] Yeah.
[00:25:14] obviously on the flip side, folks that have been cranking on this stuff for 12, 15 years.
[00:25:19] That's awesome. Um, and then so do the, is it like the, what's the, so you said that like, partners can be. On this too, as like pros, people can find, like is that process like similar or different in terms of like how a partner would be, like a registered sort of like, you know, pro that's like available on the platform?
[00:25:39] Yeah, so it, it does come down to the individual, right? E each person on the platform is an expert. Like that's one of the things that we've really focused on, and working backwards from that, that that person, that individual can be on their own. They can be a contractor, they can be a individual consultant, or they can be [00:26:00] part of a multi-person sort of agency or organization.
[00:26:03] And like the idea that a partner, like each one of those entities could also be a partner, right? With within HubSpot. Um, but the person on the platform helping customers is the direct expert with the skills that have been vetted and, and available.
[00:26:21] so they might be there like representing a partner, but like the entity still there is still meant to be like a person,
[00:26:27] Right, right,
[00:26:28] like a, you're hiring smart bug or something like that. It's like, no, it's Ricky at Smart Bug. Like who happens to be at Smart Bug or something like that.
[00:26:37] right.
[00:26:38] I love that.
[00:26:39] to solve for our customer, right? It's like at the end of the day, are customers who are gonna come through the front door of profoundly and have a, a big, sophisticated project.
[00:26:49] Mm-hmm.
[00:26:49] That would be, you know, for just being candid about it, it would be really damn tough for one individual to pull off, no matter how good that one person may be at that particular thing.
[00:26:57] You can't be equally wide and[00:27:00]
[00:27:00] Yeah.
[00:27:00] all HubSpot. It's just, it's too big. It's, it's, there's too much in there.
[00:27:04] Yeah.
[00:27:04] So, for sure, there's projects that require a, a team.
[00:27:07] Yeah.
[00:27:07] there was a lot of fog around that. I think that's one of the things that we heard from customers in the beginning was like, who do I bring in to do this thing? Of course, there's the role aspect, but then there's also like, do I hire a full-time person? Do I need a contractor because I'm, I wanna give them direction day in and day out.
[00:27:25] Am I hiring an individual expert on a particular subject area? Like I want them to know what to do and go lead it. Or am I looking for like an organization who can span across multiple teams and who has the capacity to do that sort of a thing? And we, we issue, you know, we, we shared some content on this and like a framework that resonated with customers and it's been pretty popular, but like how you choose.
[00:27:50] All of that before was like munged together. And we've tried to say like, no, you hire different people for different things.
[00:27:58] What's interesting is that you're doing this [00:28:00] kind of adjacent, like the background of being in the, the HR space and like the recruiting spaces. You have to teach people what to recruit because they can be like, Hey, I want a demand planner.
[00:28:08] Hundred percent
[00:28:09] well are you sure you want that? What do they want 'em to do? I want 'em to, you know,
[00:28:12] right.
[00:28:13] and stuff. That's like not demand planning. That's something completely different. So having that, and on top of that, the way that you talked about, you have to vet people, right? Like the actual event.
[00:28:22] I had sent a couple people over to sign up. They're like, Hey, I'm trying to break in literally the exact same thing. Hey, I'm trying to get in the HubSpot. Like I'm hearing a lot about it. I was like, oh, you should just go to profoundly. So I just sent them over and they're, I was like, how'd you get? He's like, did you say you Crip your account? He's like, no, I had to like make a video. I was like, oh shit. All right. Well, that's, that's good. It's like they actually wanted to see who you are, what you're about, and make sure that you're fit for the platform. So again, what you're doing that makes a lot of sense. And I like the answer around the marketplace economics, right?
[00:28:49] So who, HubSpot is the perfect place for this because the, let's say the ecosystem is so huggable. So lovable. It's very accepting. It's very open. So when you [00:29:00] have this marketplace economics where you're like, what comes first, the chicken or the egg style, right? You, you, you literally don't need to do anything.
[00:29:06] You just need to say, Hey, we have food. And people will show up. And you guys have been, I mean, when you, when you've been in the HubSpot ecosystem or ecosystem like this for so long, I mean, Brian, you're coming from, you guys are the perfect two people really make this
[00:29:19] Yeah,
[00:29:19] let's really hyped.
[00:29:20] Should do it.
[00:29:22] I'd, I'd love to, oh, go ahead. Sorry.
[00:29:24] we're excited about that decision framework. So we've, we've released a bunch of really cool content. There's so much more stuff we can do here because what we've, what What we're seeing is that, you know, folks coming in profoundly to, to get help. They can reasonably articulate what they're feeling in the moment.
[00:29:39] They're like, they under, you know, they, they, they know what the business needs. They understand what's not happening that needs to be happening. But that next step of going, okay, but who the hell should I actually be looking to for that help is so murky. It's so difficult to know, okay, is it individual? Is it a small team?
[00:29:57] Do I need an elite HubSpot partner? Like what's the, what is the best. [00:30:00] Type of help for me to go chase. And there's so much cool stuff that we can do to remove that ambiguity and help help folks who need help get really clear on the, the right type of persona to, to get them what they need.
[00:30:12] Yeah, I also think like. Historically, lots of organizations have like put a lot of weight on the individual admin or the, the rev ops leader to say like, whoa, you're the admin. You should be able to do everything in HubSpot And it's impossible. Right? With the, with a platform is powerful and sort of ever expanding.
[00:30:34] Like you need the ability to be able to dip into certain experts. In moments of time to help you in certain things, whether it's an integration developer or, or a web developer, what have you. Um, you know, the admin that can do all of those things for large and scaling organizations is a bit of a unicorn.
[00:30:55] So now you've got this on demand resource that you can use to, to do [00:31:00] that, um, cost effectively, you know, in a way that that works for you. So that's been helpful too, I think. Yeah.
[00:31:06] Yeah, some I'm interested in kind of like knowing in terms of like the story and what it was like when you were introducing this to the. To the world of, of HubSpot, right? Is um, like I can, I can totally look at this and like see like, hey, this, this, this very much feels like, uh, a bit of a disruptor in the space of hiring help for HubSpot, which for all this time has very much been, uh, call support.
[00:31:34] And if that doesn't work, go hire a partner. Right? And it's like very much been. Set in stone that way for a very long time. And like maybe, yeah, if you were able to find a guy you knew, a guy like, like, you know, you could, you could do it, but you know, very much the motion was go to the partner directory, find someone in there, or like get a recommendation from someone and work with a certified HubSpot partner to do X, Y, Z.
[00:31:56] Right. And I could, I could probably understand that there were some partners looking [00:32:00] at this that may be like the status quo, like that system like that. of limited paths that people had in order to kind of get help through HubSpot. Did you guys like get any, like what was the reaction from partners when you started to talk to them about this stuff?
[00:32:15] Was there any that pushed back or any that doubted it or any that like didn't, you know, enjoy the idea that like it would become easier to hire folks that weren't? HubSpot partner, like agencies,
[00:32:30] Yeah.
[00:32:30] you don't gotta give any names, but like what was that reaction? Was it mixed? Was they were all on board?
[00:32:35] Like
[00:32:36] Yeah, no. I think Jason mentioned earlier, like pleasant surprises. I think we were pleasantly surprised by the reception. Like I think, yeah, I think that, um. Uh, we are also an enabler. I think we have lots of partners that are coming to us saying like, Hey, you know, how could we take advantage of profoundly like we have needs and so forth, both in terms of [00:33:00] people expertise that they need or planned or unplanned leave that is happening that they need to fill all, like all these different use cases that help partners scale better and, and cost effectively and all the things.
[00:33:12] Um, so that's, I think that's been a really. Pleasant surprise for us that we can help them. And then also there are things that partners just don't wanna do. There are things that they're not purpose built to, to sort of, uh, accommodate. And, you know, we offer the ability to help them with those things. In many instances, it allows them to maintain that relationship with that customer.
[00:33:36] And so again, it's a key way for them to scale. Um, so yeah, I, I think the, uh, the reception has been really positive.
[00:33:47] Yeah. Yeah, max, it's a great question because it, it could have gone differently,
[00:33:51] Yeah.
[00:33:51] right? It could have been, it could have been different, but we've, you know, we've been, I've been so happily surprised and we've been so pleasantly surprised that like a bunch of our earliest customers [00:34:00] were partners
[00:34:01] Yeah.
[00:34:02] to us basically saying, look, this appears like an awesome way to expand my bandwidth. To serve and HubSpot customers if I need, if we get crazy busy and I need additional bandwidth, or if we take on a project that has some really specific nuanced requirement
[00:34:21] Yep.
[00:34:22] I can't possibly make the argument that I should have that person full-time.
[00:34:25] Yeah.
[00:34:26] Yeah.
[00:34:26] fantastic. Come grab a pro and get the project done.
[00:34:29] Yeah.
[00:34:30] I think I, I was envisioning, uh, you know, some shadowy figures sliding a note under your door from the partner industrial complex,
[00:34:37] Mm-hmm.
[00:34:38] keep things status quo. We don't like what you're doing, but like, it, what it, I think the thing that I didn't think of right, is like, you know, it, it, it feels like. only are customers looking for these people, but like partners are too, just as much as a HubSpot customer would be. Right. Um, so that's a really interesting, uh, [00:35:00] kind of angle that I didn't quite view it from before. We, we,
[00:35:02] Yeah. I'll give you an example. Like our, one of our first customers was a partner who was like, Hey, I need some additional, you know, pre-sale support from an expert in this particular area. Like I'll do the BDR demand gen sort of thing. But when I get on a phone call with a customer and they need to go deep on HubSpot, like I need that, I need that person.
[00:35:25] And we were able to supply an expert who could do that and it like massively allowed that. Partner to scale, you know, and that wasn't, I think, a use case that we had necessarily had in mind in the, in the beginning. Um, but it's been a really popular one for us. And on the flip side, on the servicing side, like we have very established, let's say, partners who need nuanced expertise and like.
[00:35:52] I mean, let's face it, the platform again is growing and it's complex and it's great. We had a partner work with one of the experts [00:36:00] to do something for an integration that they couldn't do on their own. It's, it's wild. It's wild. These experts are like pros. They, they know what they're doing, so.
[00:36:10] Tell.
[00:36:11] And it, and it gives us the ability, like we help helping individual HubSpot experts thrive and helping HubSpot Solutions partners thrive. Not mutually exclusive. Like those two
[00:36:21] Mm-hmm.
[00:36:21] absolutely be true in the same sentence. So to Brian's point, we can help partners expand bandwidth and skill.
[00:36:27] I. can also absolutely help them say yes to more business,
[00:36:31] Mm-hmm.
[00:36:32] are crazy busy and you know, if we're just, we're talking plainly about it, there are, are there's lots of partners that are gonna have to say no to smaller projects because of course they have to,
[00:36:41] Yeah.
[00:36:42] if it's, if it's not a 10 KA month retainer, then it may not be the right fit for certain partners.
[00:36:47] Mm-hmm.
[00:36:48] of what profoundly offer is, is like, well. Why? Stop saying no. Say yes.
[00:36:54] Yep.
[00:36:54] a pro. Enable them to fulfill the business, and great. Now you've driven some revenue [00:37:00] and the lifetime value from that customer or that client who you were about to turn away.
[00:37:06] Yeah.
[00:37:06] no to business.
[00:37:08] Stop.
[00:37:08] Yeah.
[00:37:09] Nobody grows when you gotta say no. That was like
[00:37:11] Yep.
[00:37:13] foundation for Africanists back in the day, uh, to help people just not say no. And when you can say yes, the world opens up and they're, I can't stress enough of how that play is because. We see it every day with, you know, the integrate or the onboarding of our apps, right?
[00:37:30] Where if you need to, I need someone that's specifically really, really, really good at CMS modules. Oh, I need someone that's really good with CMS modules, the, the pseudo CMS module. Then jump that into quote templates and you've got three different people and something that's really in the same, and it's impossible to have somebody that knows all of those things.
[00:37:50] Super nuanced. So that's a, that's a big up, no shadowy figures necessary, which is
[00:37:54] Yeah, that, that, that's actually, you bring a really interesting point there, doc. It's like, I wonder if there's ever, and maybe you guys have already done this, like I have [00:38:00] no idea, like, there any sort of, you know, ability when like you're listing the things that you're good at in HubSpot to kind of say like, I'm a pro at this, I'm a pro at that.
[00:38:09] Like is there any sort of. Uh, ability to say like, Hey, there's this app integration that I'm very skilled at using or I'm certified in, or whatever. Like, you know, I guess the question we're, we're, we're asking is like, when can we have a profoundly pro say that they're a, you know, certified event? Happily deployer, right?
[00:38:27] Like that's, uh, is that something you guys are working on or already done, or what does that look like?
[00:38:31] Yeah. Already done. I mean, we're, yeah, yeah,
[00:38:34] cool.
[00:38:35] yeah.
[00:38:36] do you do it? Like is it just like, are you sucking in like all the apps from the marketplace and having that be something selectable on their profile or like how does that work?
[00:38:43] Yeah. As part of the application process, you know, we, we do dive deep on which, uh, connected apps the expert is, has I. Expertise in implementing and integrating. And we go deep on that. Uh, because it's an area where the customer experience again, isn't [00:39:00] what it should be. You know, if they need help with something, where do they go?
[00:39:03] And they go back and forth and back and forth. You don't have to do that anymore. You come to profoundly, you can find who you need, you can find the help you need and it's done. Um, so.
[00:39:12] That makes me want to do like a, uh, a, a profoundly event, happily certification or something and, and do a whole, I don't know, thing with that. Yeah, that would, that would be super cool.
[00:39:22] thinking too is when you have, I'm trying to think the best way to say it. So showcasing, it's not necessarily showcasing the pros. But it is a place where pros can showcase their goods. So it's like a media section, your own channel, where people are not only promoting the content, but not necessarily user stories.
[00:39:43] But here's a chance for you to show some of the things that you can do. the platform and make it like reveal during search when if so I'm searching for, again, I need a custom dynamic email module that shows associated registering objects or associated session objects and I can usually [00:40:00] da, da, da, all this stuff that's like really, really nuanced inside of an email module.
[00:40:03] And you could have that pro do a short of sorts and kind of get to know, oh, I want that person 'cause I saw him do something like that.
[00:40:13] Yeah.
[00:40:13] guys probably are already going to do that, but just the, the brain fart that came to me is like, oh, if you could do a showcasing of
[00:40:20] No, it's spot on man. There's so much cool stuff that we're gonna have the ability to do in the app. Like early on, like many, many months ago, we had to make the choice that I get probably every early like pre-launch tech company has to mix. Like do we pull a marketplace off the shelf? There's all sorts of marketplaces that can pull off the shelf and customize. And we seriously thought about it for a minute because it's a hell of a lot cheaper to market and we didn't do that. We said this. We're gonna want the ability to, to dramatically customize this thing in really interesting and nuanced ways. So we went down the build it ourselves path, which has been incredibly interesting and like the steepest learning curve that I've ever been a part of.
[00:40:57] But it's an awful lot of fun. And
[00:40:59] I want to hear a [00:41:00] lot about this actually.
[00:41:00] stuff, so much cool stuff we're gonna be able to build into the app.
[00:41:04] So can you tell us about the app? Like, like did you just like build the entire thing on like HubSpot, CMS and all the logic inside of HubSpot? Or is it a combination of you hired some devs to like build your own app that like sits on top of HubSpot? Like what's the, what's the build of, of the Profoundly app?
[00:41:21] yanking the court. If it doesn't integrate with HubSpot, we're yanking the court.
[00:41:27] It's a custom Salesforce front end.
[00:41:28] Yeah, exactly. You're right. Imagine, imagine. Um, we use HubSpot for all the things HubSpot's amazing at, and we use the app to manage the, the marketplace AC actions is the simplest way to say it. We got unbelievably lucky really early on to connect with, uh, shop called Noreastern Group, actually run, run by Sky.
[00:41:45] John, who was a director of engineering at HubSpot for years, who I've known forever,
[00:41:49] Mm-hmm.
[00:41:50] us the MVP. It's, it was fantastic. It was a Ruby on Rails app. it, it sort of spoke to HubSpot at the beginning. That wasn't really the focus. We're just like, let's get a prototype [00:42:00] out that does the things that we care most about, which is customer can connect with pro and communicate and invoice in the product like the,
[00:42:07] Mm-hmm.
[00:42:08] basic definition of marketplace.
[00:42:11] Yeah.
[00:42:12] We're one, we're one iteration beyond that. So we're, we're working with Copy Tan. You guys probably know those guys. They do awesome work. They've helped us do a bunch of, a bunch of really cool iterative work on the app. We actually just, you heard it here and here for the first time. We actually just, just had a CTO join profoundly.
[00:42:27] We haven't announced it publicly anywhere yet, which is
[00:42:29] Breaking news.
[00:42:31] the most amazing thing. So we've got a CTO to, to join our team, which is incredible. Now we get to really lean into the product roadmap that we've got, like this, you know, pages and pages and pages of feedback that we've gotten from customers and from pros. Like the pros on the platform have been unbelievable. Literally said to each of them in our onboarding calls. you're signing up to be our product team. I hope you, I hope you realize that, I hope you're cool with that. Like
[00:42:57] Yeah.
[00:42:57] you are gonna, you are gonna help us [00:43:00] build. The pro experience of this thing, and a bunch of that's gonna bleed into the way that customers experience the app like this.
[00:43:06] We've, we've been so fortunate to have this incredible depth of feedback from users. It's, it's just a wild advantage.
[00:43:15] So do they build it like in a way where it's like, yeah, the user interacts with the app, you know, through their browser on the internet and everything, but then is it like sending like data into HubSpot that you guys can then see, like do you have like representations of like job postings and like communications going back and forth and like transactions, like
[00:43:34] Yeah.
[00:43:35] guys get to see in HubSpot?
[00:43:36] It's more manual than, I'd love to admit at this point,
[00:43:38] Sure.
[00:43:39] so early. This thing has been live for like 105 days or
[00:43:42] Yeah.
[00:43:42] Like it's still super, super early. But yeah, everything in the app is represented via job boards and deal flow, and there's just all sorts of interesting automations taking place. The the goal to get to a point where. HubSpot is our unified view of all [00:44:00] things customer like. We
[00:44:01] Mm-hmm.
[00:44:02] to look, log into HubSpot and see absolutely everything happening with our customers in the app.
[00:44:08] Nice.
[00:44:09] Yep.
[00:44:10] What's the future of this? what, like what, what are you like most excited about for what you guys can kind of, you know, do with this platform and how you can kind of change the HubSpot, you know, community really kind of as a whole through it. Like what's, uh, what's next? What profoundly
[00:44:29] Yeah, that's such a good question.
[00:44:30] Yeah, that's the big one.
[00:44:32] Yeah, I mean right now we're focused on scaling, right? We've got customers coming in, we've got pros. We're built, we've got a great community. You know, I wanna just circle back quickly to something Dax that you mentioned about like the. Allowing pros to sort of show and tell what they've built. Like we're leaning into that motion with apps in particular, like I think it's a great opportunity for pros to say like, here's what I helped enable.
[00:44:59] They create a [00:45:00] short, they create what we call case studies, and that goes out to all the other pros that touches like hundreds of thousands of end users. Because of, you know, we've got so many people on the platform. Um, and so it, it's a good, it's a good opportunity for people to learn about, like these apps that can help them grow better.
[00:45:19] So we're building that out. We have lots of exciting things that we're working on to help pros expand their areas of expertise and so on. So, you know, we're, uh, we're leaning in.
[00:45:33] Yeah,
[00:45:33] That's a big
[00:45:34] so. Just short, shorter term, I'm all the things Brian said.
[00:45:37] Mm-hmm.
[00:45:38] I'm super excited for the way that we're able to help partners, right? Like this, the, you know, my assertion, part of my assertion here is that the way that partners have built over years is, getting tougher and tougher. Like this, build a, build a giant team of full-timers. It's getting really damn hard to optimize margin in that model. And I think part, part of what Profoundly is gonna be able to do is help partners [00:46:00] become this, what I think is the, the modern iteration of the partner, which is core group of full-timers. A bunch of really good contractors and freelancers in orbit with very specific sets of skills, plus ai plus agents, know, building, building the partner in a way where there's, there's another option out there than, you know,
[00:46:19] Yeah.
[00:46:19] bunch of full-timers, and then look longer term. There isn't a reason in the world this thing's not a global product
[00:46:26] Yeah.
[00:46:27] take us, it's probably gonna take us years to get there, but there is, there is no reason why HubSpot partners and HubSpot customers all over the planet. Can't get into Profound and get the help they need.
[00:46:37] Awesome.
[00:46:38] That's major man. Well, we appreciate you guys jumping on because you have made a splash. It's an admirable splash very quickly. Uh, it
[00:46:46] It's a profound splash,
[00:46:48] Profound splash. Wasn't
[00:46:49] profound splash.
[00:46:50] It wasn't hard to find, it wasn't hard to join the Slack community. Uh, so we always like to ask a couple people or ask folks a couple questions before we leave out. one question for both of [00:47:00] you guys. B Gja, favorite dessert,
[00:47:07] Sorry.
[00:47:08] We ask the hard hitting questions here at the end.
[00:47:11] I'm going lime all
[00:47:13] Hmm.
[00:47:13] key lime pie. I'll take it.
[00:47:17] Yeah.
[00:47:19] I'll
[00:47:19] Uh, yeah, I gotta go ice cream. Any, any kind of ice cream I'm in on ice cream. I like your logo.
[00:47:26] Top fla
[00:47:27] Top
[00:47:28] you know what, I don't, I, I don't turn ice cream away. That is part of my problem.
[00:47:33] That's fair.
[00:47:34] That was point, that was part of the logo every, makes everyone smile no matter where you're at in the world.
[00:47:38] Yeah.
[00:47:39] Love it.
[00:47:41] we're gonna have to, we're gonna have to do, go way far away from anything I know. sports team?
[00:47:47] Oh,
[00:47:48] Sport agnostic.
[00:47:50] Mm-hmm. I, I live in Ohio, but it will be the Patriots until I die.
[00:47:55] Let's go.
[00:47:57] I gotta go. [00:48:00] I, I, I, I don't, I'm not, I don't follow sports very closely. Uh, full admission. Uh, but the, if I was gonna say a favorite one, the lady All Blacks
[00:48:11] Is that, uh, uh,
[00:48:14] rugby team. Yeah. Yeah. Let's go.
[00:48:18] Max? Is that paintball? I was like, was that paintball max? Alright,
[00:48:22] true.
[00:48:24] last question and we'll kick, we'll kick it out is going to be your favorite color. Just get it and I, I won't accept single word answers.
[00:48:37] Can it wait, can it not be orange though?
[00:48:41] It's a single
[00:48:42] Sure.
[00:48:42] So it's
[00:48:43] That's the easy one. That's the easy one. Favorite color other than orange.
[00:48:47] I'm going Hunter Green.
[00:48:49] Okay.
[00:48:50] Ooh,
[00:48:50] right.
[00:48:51] great.
[00:48:52] shade of blue over here and I gotta go back and say like, my favorite sports team, uh, I have to say like my daughter's, [00:49:00] you know, lacrosse or softball team. Otherwise, uh, I'm gonna hear about it, so, yeah.
[00:49:06] Yeah,
[00:49:06] can do some creative editing.
[00:49:08] say, we'll chop that up. We'll chop that up. No problem. Well guys, thank you so much for coming on. We are really, we're really excited to see and see this blossom and welcome to the software is gonna be one of the things I forgot to say. You're in a software game now and it's a world that when you own it and you run it, you understand why it's tough. So big ups for what you guys are doing, and we'll see it. We'll see at the top.
[00:49:31] Awesome. Thank you.
[00:49:33] All right, appreciate it.