The Pilot Project Podcast is an aviation podcast that aims to help new pilots learn what it takes to succeed in the world of flight, to help people in the flight training system learn what they may want to fly, and to give Canadians and the world a peek into life on the flight deck in the RCAF. We want to help pilots succeed and thrive! We interview real RCAF pilots for their exciting stories as well as the lessons they've learned along the way. We'll learn their tips to develop resilience and the tools it takes to make it in flight training.
Alright. We're ready for departure here on the pilot project podcast, the best source for stories and advice from RCAF and Mission Aviation Pilots brought to you by Sky's Magazine. I'm your host, Brian Morrison. And with me today is Mike Reno, publisher and owner of Vertical Valor, Vertical Marketplace, Skies, RCAF Today, evtoll.com, Insight Magazines, and Vertical MRO Conference, all under MHM Publishing. Today for part two of our chat, we'll be talking about Mike's career as well as MHM's foray into the podcasting world.
Bryan:Mike, welcome back to the show.
Mike:Thanks, Brian. It's a pleasure to be here again.
Bryan:Does any trip stand out to you as a highlight from your time flying in the RCAF? And if so, why?
Mike:So there's a couple that did. You know, one, I'll go back to, you know, that flight I did with with four zero one Squadron and the sixtieth anniversary of NORAD. That was definitely one that that stood out.
Bryan:Yeah. Of course.
Mike:There was another flight that I did that was actually it was it it was a it was an interesting flight, and it was called Amalgam Warrior. So this is where they would do the it was part of the NORAD training exercise they would do, and and this one was at a Cold Lake. And I was flying with four three four squadron. So v u thirty two disbanded, and then it morphed into what was four three four combat support squadron. And then they were based at Shearwater, and then they eventually moved over to to Greenwood.
Mike:So I was invited to go along, and it was t birds, f eighteens, challengers, and then the Americans had b 50 twos. They had some of their fighters. And so at that time, basically, what what four three four squadron would do is that they would do things like they would simulate cruise missiles. So the T Bird was a perfect profile to simulate a cruise missile. So, you know, you would you would come up under a wing of a of a challenger, and then you were basically launched like a like a cruise missile.
Mike:Oh, cool. And then it would be for the fighters to intercept you or for, radar to to track you. And and on this mission, what it was is the, the t birds were acting kinda like as like a an an aggressor, the bad guys, and the challengers were involved, then he had the f eighteens. So we we do the briefing, and we launch it. And I believe on this mission, there was four t birds and and a challenger that were on it.
Mike:And and it's wintertime, so you're wearing the, you know, the emerge the all the winter gear, and it's and it's it's a tight squeeze. I'm a small guy, and it was a tight squeeze for me in the in the back of the T Bird. So we launch out of Goose Bay, and and we're flying. And I'm excited because, like, this is the first time I'm gonna be photographing. We had everything set up.
Mike:We're photographing these f eighteens with the b 52 bombers and with the T Birds. We had everything planned out. Well, as we're as we're flying, I lose comms with the pilot. So one of the things that we always went through is, you know, we never went into what sort of hand signals that you should use if you lose comms. So I'm looking I'm trying to get the the pilot's attention in the mirrors Yeah.
Mike:Because he's I can hear him. He can't hear me. I don't know what to do. So I'm waving my arms in the in the back of the T Bird. He's asking me questions, and I've got my head down because now I'm tracing the the comm cords, and I'm I'm trying to see is it disconnected or anything.
Mike:But all he can see is my head is down, and I'm waving my arms. To me, I'm waving my arms to say, hey. I can hear you. Something's and I'm going like this. Like, something something's wrong.
Mike:Well, next thing I know and we're probably in the the low twenties, 20,000 feet or something like that. And all of a sudden, we roll upside down, and we head down for the deck. And and all he can see is again, I'm I'm waving my arms in in the mirror, and I'm looking up, and I see all these aircraft starting to form formation off the bombers. And we get down, and we land, pops the canopy, and he's like, are you okay? And I'm like, I'm fine.
Mike:I don't have comms. He said, I thought you were going hypoxic. Oh. So so that was why we had to get on the ground, and I missed what would probably been at that time the most you know, the ultimate photoshoot of all time.
Bryan:Oh, man.
Mike:It's never been done, that I would have had all these aircraft together. And, of course, it was a once it was a onetime opportunity, and I never got to do it again. So that one was a that one was quite was quite memorable. I also was fortunate to do a couple of operational missions, and I did operation Sharp Guard. So that was over in the Adriatic, and that was four zero five squadron was flying out of Sigonella in Italy.
Mike:Yep. And so I was invited to go over and fly and cover, you know, what the auroras were doing when we were over there, and I was actually given the ability to fly on an operational mission, which was quite interesting. The at the time, if I if if I recall, the auroras were doing most of their flying at night. And they were monitoring the illegal shipment of weapons that were were trying to they were trying to smuggle in coming out of Italy.
Bryan:Okay.
Mike:And they they caught a a a go fast coming out of I forget where it was in Italy, but they they got this go fast coming out. And as you know, being a former Aurora pilot of the capabilities of their Aurora, and and they started tracking one.
Bryan:And just for the audience, I just wanna explain quickly. A go fast is just a fast moving boat usually used for smuggling.
Mike:I forget I shouldn't be using all these military terms,
intro:but I
Mike:should explain explain what it is. And so we so we're coming up on this on this go fast, and and I don't know if the aurora still has it today, but in that day, they had that flash illumination system that they would use on their aurora so they could take a picture at night. And we came over that go fast. I don't even know if we were 200 feet, and that flash illumination system went off, and the boat just started going everywhere. They didn't they had no idea that we were there.
Mike:But it was a pretty fascinating mission because, you know, off in the distance, you could see the artillery. You could see the artillery that was that was hitting. But we stayed over the Adriatic the the whole time, but that was, I believe, at that time, they were flying I think they were eight hour eight hour missions is what we were, what we were doing. So that was something I was fortunate to be part of, was to go up on on an operational mission.
Bryan:That's cool. Of course, that's my my squadron. My old squadron is four zero five squadron. So that's pretty cool that you got a chance to go flying with them, especially operationally. Like, I I don't know if we would still do that.
Bryan:I think it'd be tough in general to get media onboard an Aurora just because of all these secret systems and stuff that are onboard. I think that's a a very unique experience.
Mike:Yeah. It certainly changed, you know, with this with the systems that are that are onboard the Aurora. Over the years, though, I haven't personally been involved, but for, people that work for us, so our writers and photographers, we've gone to Moly. With the RCAF, we are embedded with, Chinooks and Griffins, in Moly. And we also did a big feature on operations in Afghanistan.
Bryan:Wow.
Mike:So I had a team that was over there for I believe it was almost two weeks that we were in Afghanistan that we were flying embedded with with the Chinooks and Griffins over there as well.
Bryan:Wow. That must have been quite an experience.
Mike:It was it was incredible. And, again, it goes to the trust that the RCAF has with us, with the brands that we have. So and they know that we self edit what we put out.
Bryan:Right.
Mike:So, you know, there are certain things that obviously we get to to see that a lot of people wouldn't normally get to see, but we know what we can put out there and and what we can't put out there. So, like, we're not gonna put out information that shouldn't be for people to see. Yeah. And I and I think that's that's one of the reasons why we have such a good relationship with the RCAF is that we already know. And for all intents and purposes, it's like it's almost like we're part of the air force when we're doing these things.
Mike:Like, I already know what we can and cannot do. Mhmm. What we can and cannot show. Mhmm. So that's that's always worked out very well.
Bryan:Yeah. So you obviously love flying. Do you have a pilot's license?
Mike:So you probably find this funny is that and I get this asked asked this question a lot, and people assume that I do, but I actually don't have a pilot's license. I honestly never had this this big calling to be a pilot. My mind was that I wanted to cover the aviation aerospace sectors. That was what my interest was, but it wasn't to fly. I mean, I've flown almost every aircraft I've flown in, I've had stick time like anyone would, you know, for five or ten minutes or whatever.
Mike:But, no, I'm actually not a pilot.
Bryan:Well, there you go. So keen listeners will have noticed that a large number of your publications are helicopter based. Where did that love affair with helicopters begin?
Mike:Well, I I guess it actually started with that first flight with four two three squadron. You know, that's where it started. And when you've it it goes back to where I was saying, I flew a lot with a lot of the squadrons that were didn't get the sort of attention that, say, the fighter squadrons were getting. You know, the the fighter guys were always getting the attention. Whereas I picked those squadrons that, hey.
Mike:They don't get the sort of attention that they deserve. And a lot of that was in the helicopter communities. So the tac hell community, for example. You know? It's it's not as it's not as sexy as being a fighter pilot.
Mike:The mission they do is incredible. So it was being able to to tell those stories, but the more I got involved with helicopters, especially in the civil world, the more interesting they became. And the helicopter is really it's an engineering marvel. When you look at what they can do, the number of missions that they can do and I'm I'm not talking about military. I mean, that's one thing, but I'm talking about in in the civilian world.
Mike:So you can take let's take a a Bell four twelve, which is the Griffin. K? So this is based off you can take that Griffin, and you could probably come up with 30 different missions that that aircraft could do. If you take a a transport aircraft, let's say, it's, a caravan. So caravan's either gonna carry passengers.
Mike:It's gonna carry cargo. It might do, ISR, but not too many other missions. Yep. But you could take that four twelve. That four twelve can be equipped for doing aerial firefighting.
Mike:It can be equipped for doing air medical, then it could be going out, and it could be doing moving drills for mining and mineral exploration, what they do. So they'll move drills. There's so many missions that you can take that a helicopter can do, and it's fascinating. And the community within the for helicopters, when you see the level of ingenuity of what they come up with, of what you can do with a helicopter, it's incredible. It's it's almost endless.
Mike:So that's where when I started to learn more about the civil world helicopters, that's where it became more fascinating. I remember my my first civil story that I did for helicopters was actually it was hella logging on Vancouver Island. I was coming back. I was doing an air to air shoot with Transport Canada. They had this beautiful DC three that I had just photographed.
Mike:And as we're landing at the airport, I see these two b v one zero sevens, which is the civilian version of the Labrador helicopter that the Okay. Canadian Air Force flew.
Bryan:Yep.
Mike:The lab. This is the civilian version of it. And I see these two helicopters going by, and I'm like, what the hell are these? So I I asked when we got down, and I see them sitting there, and it says Heliphore on the side. Never heard of them.
Mike:And so I started making inquiries. And there was a gentleman there. His name was Jeff Briggs. So he was responsible for operations for Helifor, and they were doing heli logging with these helicopters. I had no idea that you could use helicopters to log.
Bryan:Yeah.
Mike:So it goes back to, well, if you don't ask the question, you'll never found you'll never find out if you can do it. So I made a connection with with Jeff, and I said, hey. We we'd love to do a story on hella logging. And they took me out, and they had a one of these helicopters out there logging. And the the one zero seven, they're they're lifting about 9,000 pounds of wood at a time, roughly about that, depending on on altitude that they're logging on Vancouver Island.
Mike:And it was amazing watching these pilots fly with a a 50 to a 200 foot long line below a helicopter, grabbing logs off the side of a mountain. And that's where I started to see the world of helicopters and be fascinated with all these different missions that they can do. And there's still new missions that they're creating with them. I mean, one of the new missions that helicopters are doing now is that we're getting, workers down on the top of, the windmills that are offshore. You know, those windmills have to be serviced.
Mike:Mhmm. We're not gonna go by boat, but they're they're using helicopters now. So it's a new sector that they've created for for helicopters that this is how they're getting people down or using helicopters to put the pilot boat captains onto ships offshore. They're doing that off the co off the West Coast Of Vancouver Island. They're also doing off the West Coast Of The United States.
Mike:It's kinda new for Canada. We only just started doing that. The first contract only came in a couple months ago. But in Europe, this has been something they've been doing a lot is this is how they're getting the pilot boat captains down to ships that are coming into whatever port.
Bryan:Okay.
Mike:So it's just it's fascinating when you see what they can do with a helicopter.
Bryan:Yeah. Just super versatile.
Mike:It's it's versatile. It's it is a helicopter is the most versatile aircraft ever developed. You go to a when you go to a show and give you example is that you look at a Sikorsky s 92, which the Cyclone is is basically built from as a is an s 92. That helicopter was designed to be an offshore oil and gas transporter of people. Fly offshore workers to oil rigs.
Mike:That was what it's designed for. Then, of course, Canada is the only military in the world to fly it as the cyclone and the mission it flies. I mean, the v h 92 is is flying the president of The United States now. But now because of this ingenuity, the s 90 two's, they're in that twenty year old range. They're taking them, and now they're converting them into doing aerial firefighting.
Mike:Oh, wow. VIH helicopters out on Vancouver Island, They've taken an s 92, and they've put a belly tank on it that can carry, I believe, it's 6,000 liters of water, and now they can go fight fires with it. Wow. It was a mission that that helicopter was never designed for. And you see that now too even with Blackhawks that are that are being sold from the US army that are going into civilian hands in The United States.
Mike:There's a handful now that are flying in Canada. They're doing missions that Sikorsky or the US military never envisioned that those helicopters were would be doing. Mhmm. But a lot of it is that public safety type stuff. They're doing every if it's utility work or they're doing search and rescue with those aircraft.
Mike:So it's that level of ingenuity that you see in that helicopter sector that you just don't you just don't see that anywhere else.
Bryan:Yeah. For sure. So what's the best experience you've ever had as an air to air photographer?
Mike:I would actually say it was with four four two squadron in in Comox. There is a a pilot there, Jean Francois DuPont, who is now the commanding officer of of four three one squadron, better known as Snowbirds, he was a photographer, a great photographer. So that's how we kinda connected was as photography, and and I had met him briefly when he was on the Snowbirds, not as as the boss, but when he was on the Snowbirds earlier, and we just connected because of the photography. And, when he left the Snowbirds, he actually went and, he went from fixed wing to flying the cormorant. And with vertical is very vertical magazine is very well known amongst the the rotary wing community.
Mike:And he invited us out. He said, listen. He goes, come on out to 442, and we'll do some stories. And at that time, we had one of our writers, a gentleman by the name Rob Urdas. Rob was retired RCAF.
Mike:He had flown Labradors, but he also came as from the RCAF, he went to the National Research Council of Canada, and he was the chief pilot of Rotary there. So as a test pilot, Rob had the pedigree that the RCF would let him fly aircraft that we could put him in. So we came up with this with this idea. Let's put Rob in the Cormorant to fly it. And then we did a story about Rob flying the the cormorant.
Mike:Well, as part of that, we needed to gather as much photo and video content as we could. And so the squadron OPSO basically put us on every mission that they were doing with the Kormoran. Every training mission, we went on the Kormoran. And so we did some amazing photography. And the weather, we were there in in April, and it was unseasonably warm.
Mike:There wasn't a cloud in the sky over Comox for the whole week that we were there.
Bryan:Beautiful.
Mike:And we just we flew them out around Mount Washington. We're landing at the top of Mount Washington. Like, all these areas that we're going, it was just an incredible flight. The Sartecs were amazing. You know, we'd pick a spot to land and, you know, the Sartecs, you know, they're the ones that are looking after us in the back of the aircraft, and they did everything to help us.
Mike:But it was just an incredible experience because the areas that we're flying in, I think I mentioned earlier is that, you know, in a plane, you're gonna fly over it. You can look at it and say, oh, that looks pretty.
Bryan:Yeah.
Mike:In a helicopter, you fly over it, you land, you experience it. And that's what we were doing with the cormorant. We landed in so many different types of environment where the cormorant would do search and rescue missions. So that would go down, I would say, probably the best experience I ever had. I I believe in a two day period, I flew almost eleven hours in a Cormorant.
Bryan:That's a lot of time in two days.
Mike:It was a it was a it was a lot of time, but it was great. And it's not like the old days. The old days, you would set up a photo shoot, and they're like, okay. We're going out for a photo x. That's what it was.
Mike:Nowadays, it's like, we're we have a training mission. We'll allow you to come along with us Yeah. And you just get what you can get. You know? We might have a few minutes.
Mike:We can do some air to air photography, but you get what you can get. So that's what we did during that those flights. They kept on putting us on the training missions, and we just got everything that that we could. And it's it's content that we continue to use today. So it's yeah.
Mike:That was an incredible flight.
Bryan:That's awesome. What is the scariest experience you've ever had as an air to air photographer?
Mike:So, you know, one of the things that you that you learn when you're doing this is you listen. You listen to what people have to tell you. You listen to what the pilots are telling you, and you learn, you know, the capabilities of an aircraft, you know, what one aircraft can do. So you're flying in an f five. You're photographing an f 18.
Mike:They can't do the same. They don't have the same performance to be able to do certain missions. So you listen you listen a lot to this. So when you would do the the missions, I would always have, you know, Mike, what do you wanna do? So I'd have a brief, this is how we wanna do things.
Mike:So because of the the the briefings and what I learned, I learned how to identify when to shut something down if something's not going the way, I thought maybe this isn't safe, I would never hesitate speaking up. And it was very rare that I would ever do that if I didn't feel comfortable with something. So and that was because we we did these briefings. You know, we always did a good briefing on things. But probably the most scariest experience I had was actually flying with the snowbirds.
Mike:And that was 02/2001, and, again, it was back at the London air show. And I was one of the snowbird photographers. So at that time, the snowbirds had a handful of of people that they would fly that were considered a snowbird photographer. So I'd be contracted by the snowbirds to fly with them at a show to capture whatever imagery I could that then the snowbirds would then own. So it was London air show, and I was asked to to be part of the the media flight, which was on the on the the Friday before the air show would start.
Mike:So we do the briefing, and at that time, major Bob Peixon was the he was the boss, cowboy, and I was flying in snowbird number five, which was Warren Wright whiskey. And I had flown with the snowbirds at that time probably at least a half a dozen, if not more times by the time the London air show came. So we did the brief with so you had media personalities. We're flying in the other jets, and I was gonna be flying in number five, which is in the back of the diamond formation is where they had where I was slated to fly. So as a snowbird photographer, when we're doing the mission, they would ask, okay, Mike.
Mike:What is there anything that you want? Well, at that time, they had just there was a brief time where the snowbirds were doing a three year tour versus the two, and it was Cowboy's last year. And I had flown with Cowboy when he was in f eighteens. I I I think I did one or two photo shoots with Cowboy. And I said, well, let's get some shots of Cowboy on his own.
Mike:This is his last year. And they're like, yep. No problem. And and we brief it. Now I left at that point because they knew what we'd be after, and we weren't doing anything that was gonna be crazy.
Mike:And then we kinda left it at that. So we go to the jets, and everything is normal. We go up. We're we we do the the mission, and we start. And when the snowbirds move, you've got nine jets that are trying to move at the same time.
Mike:Mhmm. So it it's a it's kinda like a domino effect. One start one starts to move, then the others have to move. So keep in mind, cowboy's in the front of the diamond. We're in the back of the diamond.
Mike:Cowboy calls for a formation change because he's gonna come out of the formation, and my jet number five is gonna come out of the formation, and we're gonna go off on our own to do some photos. It's a standard procedure. There was nothing that was different about the the radio call. So we go off to do the photos. And when you start to get involved in aerobatics, that's where things can go wrong very quickly.
Mike:So we're set up. We're over Lake Erie. Cowboys, he's, you know, he's we've got him going inverted. We've got him going straight up. We're doing all these different types of formations probably in a period of it was, like, maybe ten minutes.
Mike:And then we call for the formation. We break, and then we join up with the rest of the snowbirds. So I'm talking with with Whiskey, and I'm just like, yeah. You know, I got what I needed. And at that time, the humidity was building up over the lake, so you're starting to get that high cumulus cloud, and it was starting to get overcast.
Mike:And and I thought we were only doing the one breakaway for the for those photos. And then Cowboy made a made the radio call, he said, to do the formation change again. And I said to Whiskey, I said, Whiskey, I said, I got what I need. And when Whiskey made the radio call to Cowboy, he said, too late. Because it goes back to the team was starting to change formation.
Bryan:Okay.
Mike:So all the jets had already started to move, so we were like, okay. Let's go out and do the photos again. So we did it again. And then on the last photo, cowboy split away from the formation. Whiskey and I were just like any other time I was flying.
Mike:The snowbirds, the rest of the formation was probably four miles away from us. We're literally just talking. Did you get the photos you need? Yep. And we heard the rejoin.
Mike:So we heard cowboy come over the radio and basically called for the rejoin. I had flown with the snowbirds enough that I could understand, you know, when you call certain rejoins, you know, the the jargon that's used, And I understood the rejoin the same way that whiskey understood the rejoin. However, what later came down, it was the lingo that was used. Whiskey came from transports. Cowboy was a fighter pilot.
Bryan:Okay.
Mike:So it was misunderstood. We thought to rejoin the formation of snowbirds, the call was to rejoin on cowboy. So as we're talking, we're literally flying straight and level. At the last second, we saw the bottom of cowboy. We saw the speed bird, which is the bottom of the of the tutor.
Mike:He's in a flat turn, coming at us in a left hand turn. I'm sitting on the right side of the jet. And we saw at the last second that we bunted enough because I feel if if if Whiskey didn't bunt, he might have come through the cockpit. So cowboy came across our wing. We ripped off his tail.
Mike:He took off about four or five feet of our leading edge. Oh, wow. And, unfortunately, they had to, they had to eject. So this is over Lake Erie. He had a passenger with him.
Mike:It was a sergeant who what saved his life was the fact that he was a former airborne, because when he ejected out the aircraft, I believe they were at I wanna say we were under 2,000 feet.
Bryan:Oh, wow.
Mike:And the parachute just came out of the pack when he hit the water. So, cowboy, he ejected. No injuries. Unfortunately, his passenger, he had several injuries. He but even with those injuries, that passenger and the the the swells in the lake were probably like like lake swells.
Mike:Like, it's you're not talking white caps, but it was enough that you can't see. So they couldn't see each other, but that passenger started his instincts kicked in even with his injuries, and he started looking for the pilot. He's trying to find the pilot, you know, and make sure the pilot was okay. Oh, wow. Sort of trying to find, cowboys.
Mike:So, anyway, we, a Labrador happened to be in Hamilton doing a search and rescue demo with the fire department. They got the pan pan call, which is the call when you have an aircraft go down. And from going into the water to when the Labrador was overhead, I believe it was about forty five minutes, which was incredibly fast. Because if they were coming from Trenton, it would have been a lot longer than that. Mhmm.
Mike:And for us, we managed to the the dash on the Tudor just lit up red. Yeah. And but we managed to get back. There was no issues. But one of the pilots, they were trying to find us, going back to that it was overcast, and we're pumping smoke so they could see us so they could do us do a once over on us to see if there was any additional damage, they couldn't find us.
Mike:So we made it back to London. It was maybe a fifteen minute flight to get back to London. It felt like two hours No kidding. To to get on the ground. But that was that was by far the scariest the scariest moment.
Mike:But I would say it was also it was probably had I known then what I know now, it was probably a dark time for me in the in the air force. Yeah. Because what happened at that time is, you know, the snowbirds all came together to look after their teammates, which they should, but I was a civilian, and I was offered nothing. I'm not talking about monitor I'm talking about just help. I mean, back in those days, you didn't talk about things like PTSD and all that kind of stuff.
Mike:Like, there was nothing.
Bryan:Yeah. And you had just been through this, like, traumatic experience?
Mike:I had just been through this traumatic experience. I landed, and and I won't say who the who the the guy was on the team. There's only one person in the air force I ever ever got along with, and it was this one particular pilot. And he would not let me call my wife.
Bryan:Oh, wow.
Mike:And and then we had some some words exchanged, and I did call her because she had just heard it on the radio that there was a crash with the snowbirds.
Bryan:Yeah.
Mike:So I would say that was where I really considered, you know, do I continue doing what I'm doing? I was I was mad at the air force because I had nothing. There was I had you know, my conversation with the air force was at the accident investigation. There was no resources that were provided to me. Those resources provided to me should have been the same resources that were provided to anyone else on that team, and there was nothing Mhmm.
Mike:Because I was a civilian at that time. But I know that now back then, you know, I'm this kid that's you know, it's what am I gonna do? Yeah. So so it was a that was a tough time, and I didn't know, could I continue to do this? I didn't know if if the air force would say, hey.
Mike:You know, Mike, you're the cause of this because I was the one that asked for that for that photo. Right. But it was no different than you do in every other photoshoot. Right? But it took me a month.
Mike:I think it I believe it was a month before I got into the air, but that was only with the blessing of Linda that she said, okay. But you cannot fly with the snowbirds again.
Bryan:Yeah.
Mike:So so it took a month. And and, actually, it the in that month, the air force called me up and said, hey. We got an we've got an exercise we want you to be part of up in it was back in Goose Bay. No kidding. And to be honest with you, I was shocked.
Mike:I was shocked. I figured that the air force would never fly me again. And it was within a month I was back in I was in the backseat of a T Bird again.
Bryan:How did you manage to push through and get back in the cockpit?
Mike:It was one of those things, you know, we it's one of those it can it can't happen to me again.
Bryan:Okay.
Mike:Like, you just you you have that in your head. Well, it's not it's not it can't happen to me twice. Yeah. And I think that was that was part of it. And I think it would have been different had he had access to the sort of resources where you keep on being reminded by, you know, everything you see on social media.
Mike:We didn't have social media back then. Right? So we didn't have those things that kept on reminding you about it other than just what you remembered. So I think when I went on that first flight, it was just a little apprehensive when we started getting into the close formation. But, again, you know, it was, you know, briefing that mission to make sure.
Mike:And what was interesting is that when when we flew, I remember the pilot saying, oh, we didn't realize you're you're the one that was flying in the with snowbirds. Yeah. So but it was it was great. You know, those guys at four three four Squadron, I mean, they, again, they they really helped you to get through it all. And and then after that, I never I never looked back again.
Bryan:Wow. I can't imagine going through that. That must have been really, really challenging. So how did you make the jump into the publishing space? Can you tell us more about that story?
Mike:Yeah. So when I was editor of Wings and Helicopters, we were based they were based in Calgary. I was living in in Kitchener, Ontario. And the publisher at the time, Paul Skinner, decided he was gonna sell the magazines. So he sold them to a company in Ontario.
Mike:And what happened is when it was sold, basically, anyone that was full time with the company minus myself, they were all let go. But I was kept on because I was the the one that had the aviation knowledge and the aviation experience.
Bryan:Right.
Mike:But the the the company that bought us knew nothing about aviation. They bought us just because we happen to be an aviation magazine, and they made money. That's how they looked at it. They had
Bryan:Oh, okay.
Mike:Probably 30 different brands in all different sectors of the industry, and that's why they that's why they acquired us. But soon after I started, I didn't like it. I didn't like the new company. I didn't like their direction. I didn't like what their what the the future was, and I was the only guy there.
Mike:I was very passionate about aviation, and we did things for a reason when I was at Wings and Helicopters, and they wanted to change that because they thought they knew better because they do pharmaceutical magazines or they did vending machine magazines, and whatever applied there applied to aviation Okay. Which it does not. So I basically didn't get along with them, and I was now starting to dislike what I was doing. But Linda and I wanted to we wanted to get into business of our own for quite some time. Linda comes from a family of eight brothers and sisters, and almost all of them had husband and wife businesses.
Mike:They all worked together, and we wanted to do the same. So, basically, push came to shove, and I said, that's it. I called Linda. I was at a trade show. It at a actually, was a helicopter trade show, and I called Linda, I said, you know what?
Mike:I don't wanna do this anymore, but I wanna do it if if we can do it together. Let's launch our own helicopter magazine. And and the reason why we decided to go helicopters is that there wasn't much in the way of competition in the magazine world in the world of helicopters, And it goes back to where I felt that helicopters, it was a it was an under service market for getting up media attention, and it's a fascinating sector of the industry to cover. So, you know, our girls were were young. They were not weren't even a year old, and she's like, okay.
Mike:So you wanna start a business right now and put everything on the line? And I said, yeah. And, so we made that decision, and it was, Labor Day weekend of '2 thousand '2 is when MHM Publishing was launched. That's when I had left, my previous employer, and we launched, MHM Publishing, MHM being Mitchell, Hannah, Madison. So everyone always asks, what's MHM mean?
Mike:Well, that's my kids. Mhmm. Which I'm happy to say that all three of my kids now work for MHM Publishing.
Bryan:That's awesome.
Mike:Mitchell yeah. So Mitchell is in sales. Skies is more of of his portfolio. My daughter Hannah, she is a designer. She actually she only joined us about six months ago, and she just designed her first Valor magazine.
Mike:And then my other daughter, Madison, she comes from the communications world, and she just joined us. And she's involved she handles all our social media channels, and she's gonna be involved in our MRO conferences
Bryan:Okay.
Mike:That we're doing. So it just factored out. It was never planned that my kids would be part of the company, and my brother also works for me. He's he does a lot of the editing and helping on the helicast side of of everything. So so it truly is a family business.
Mike:But when we launched, Vertical was that first magazine that we started to, decided to go with. But what made it different is we said, we're gonna make this a North American publication. So it's gonna be Canadian and American. A lot of those the industries across the border, they have a lot of lot of similarities between each other, and a lot of those aircraft go back and forth across the border on contracts. So it didn't exist, and that's what we created.
Mike:And after the first magazine so typically, in the world of publishing, it could take up to two years before you have a pub a profitable publication. We did it in one issue. So from that one issue, we knew we had something when, when we launched that. The thing that was interesting is that when we launched, we came up with the name Vertical, something different. So one of the things to keep in mind is everything we always did was something that was different.
Mike:We didn't wanna be the same. We didn't wanna have a helicopter in the name, so we came up with Vertical. But those first phone calls we made in The US, they kept on saying, you're from Vertigo? We're like, no. Vert vertical.
Mike:And so for a while, they were like, duh. Did we maybe pick the wrong name? But then it it caught on. So after that first issue, it just it snowballed.
Bryan:So you said it started to snowball. How did you manage to grow MHM Publishing's portfolio to such a
Mike:large degree? Two things. Listen. So we listen to to the audience, and two, surround yourself with an amazing team. So and I think that says as a small business, that's where it doesn't matter what you do.
Mike:Small businesses fail because, you know, they'll either micromanage or they bring in the wrong people to be part of a team. For us, we've been incredibly fortunate to surround ourselves with an amazing group of people. By listening, we listened and and then we had vertical. And then there was a calling that people said, hey. It'd be great to have a helicopter magazine that was dedicated to public safety and the military.
Mike:So search and rescue, air medical, firefighting, and the military and airborne law enforcement. So then we launched at that time, it was vertical nine one one. It's now called Valor. And then people started to ask us, can you guys get back into the fixed wing world? Then we launched Skies.
Mike:So Skies was, I had always wanted to get back into the fixed wing side of things, so then we launched Skies. And then once we had Skies, then the air force because I had a hiatus of the air force for about six or seven years where I really wasn't doing that much with the air force. Well, all those people that I was dealing with in the air force that were lieutenants or captains said now now they're majors, lieutenant colonels, and higher. So when I picked up the phone and called those people and said, hey. I'm gonna launch RCAF today.
Mike:It just picked back up again Yeah. Where we left off. So then so then we launched RCAF today. And then we got into trade publication insight, and then we started to to blossom from there. But it really is that is by listening and by surrounding yourself with an amazing group of people, they'll allow you to grow.
Mike:And we did, and we're 24 full time people now. Our full time people are located in Canada, United States, and United Kingdom. And then we probably have about 20 to 25 regular freelancers that are based around the world. And as I said earlier, the the the thing that I'm most proud about that that I should say that Lind and I are most proud about is that our kids are now involved in this business. And that was never an intent that our kids would be involved.
Mike:It just naturally happens that
Bryan:Mhmm.
Mike:That they're involved. So the saying goes is that the writing was always on the wall with MHM Publishing because their names were there.
Bryan:So recently, you've launched into the podcast space. What made you decide to get into that arena?
Mike:So when when when COVID hit, what changes the way that people receive information? How they consume information? You know, we're all used to getting print magazines. When COVID came, I mean, one of the first things that we did, probably more so because no one knew what was what the what was in store for us, as a small business. So the first thing we did is we chop print.
Mike:We said that was the biggest expense. You know, you're doing everything for the survival of company. We said, okay. Chop print. We already had digital magazines, so we weren't losing out in that area.
Mike:But through COVID, that's when you started to see the popularity of podcasts start to show themselves.
Bryan:Yeah. For sure.
Mike:Were consuming, you know, they were consuming information differently. It wasn't just in that print medium. We are now more tied to social media. We are now more accepting of a digital publication. I mean, everything that we're getting now is coming across on a mobile device on our phone.
Mike:So that's where we started to reevaluate and not looking at within aviation for ideas because aviation, when it comes to, I would say, like, say, me media or public relations, things like that, it's probably ten years behind regular industry. So what we looked at is that we looked outside of our industry and said, okay. What are some good good examples of, you know, success and branching out into other ways of delivering the news, delivering information. And that's when we started to look at podcasts.
Bryan:Mhmm.
Mike:We had been approached to do podcasts. I would say we were right in the middle of COVID or on the tail end of COVID, and the time just wasn't right. We're like, no. No. This isn't this isn't right for us.
Mike:And and to be honest with you, I didn't know enough about it, you know, how much would be involved in it? So I actually I I turned the person down and said, no. We're not we're not gonna do this. Fast forwards about a year after COVID, and I get a call from a gentleman by the name of John Gray
Bryan:Mhmm.
Mike:Who is the host of the Hanger Seat Podcast. And John had asked. He said, hey, Mike. I would love to for you to be on the podcast to talk about Vertical and Valor magazine and what you're doing for the airborne law enforcement community. And and, initially, I accepted the offer to be on it, but then it was explained to you before we started this podcast is that I I typically don't like to take the spotlight on anything.
Mike:I'd like to be in the backseat, and I let everyone else take the spotlight. So I actually ended up declining John's request. And but I said to John, said, listen. I said, John, I think what you're doing with the HangerZ podcast, and his podcast is really focused more towards that airborne law enforcement community and delving it a little bit more into public safety. But that's where it really focused.
Mike:And I said, but, John, I think we can maybe work together on getting your podcasts more exposure within the airborne law enforcement community. And John's retired from Ontario City Police Department where he flew Airbus h one twenty five helicopters.
Bryan:That's in California. Right?
Mike:Yeah. Sorry. Ontario, California. So outside of Los Angeles. And so we came up with an agreement, and we started, you know, sharing his podcast through our channels.
Mike:And then what happened, it was that it was going so well. We just said to John, we were like, John, why don't you just become part of us? And that's what we did. So we basically absorbed the HangerZee podcast, and then John is he's now a full time employee with with MHM Publishing. And now John is responsible for all the other podcasts, which are now seven that he's managing, which now includes, you know, the pilot project as part of our our network of getting that information out there now.
Mike:And it just kinda it took off. We started to see that people love the podcasts. So then what we did from the Hanger Z podcast, then we came up with an idea that said, why don't we bring all these like minded podcasts together under one channel? And that's when we launched the Vertical Helicast, network where we brought in helicopter specific or rotorcraft specific podcasts into that channel. So we approached Halsey Scheider, which is the helicopter podcast, Jason Quinn or better known as Quinny with the with the real rescue.
Mike:Yep. We partnered with them. They came in under the fold of Helicast, and then we launched, the vertical, MRO podcast, which is, relates to rotorcraft maintenance repair and overhaul. And then, just recently, we launched the flight crew podcast in a partnership with with Echo. So that is more dedicated towards that air medical side of the world for for podcasts.
Mike:And then, of course, now we come over to the pilot project. And, you know, with with you leaving the RCAF, then we came up with something that we could work together that how can we help you, how basically, how can we help each other
Bryan:Mhmm.
Mike:With a podcast? How do you get how do you share this information? And this is where we see that that podcasts are becoming a phenomenal outlet for getting that information out there. And it allows people to tell some pretty incredible stories where you can capture that you can capture the enthusiasm. You can you can capture the emotion in someone's voice that you can't capture in an article.
Mike:So things have changed, and that's where we're basically, we're jumping on that bandwagon.
Bryan:Yeah. And I feel super fortunate to be to be part of that as I've been watching you guys kind of grow over the past couple years. I spoke with John Gray kind of just after you guys had partnered and he had nothing but but great things to say about about you and the organization. So it was really a no brainer for me to to look at partnering with you guys. We talked about this a little bit, but, what are you hoping to accomplish by partnering with the pilot project podcast?
Mike:So there's a couple different things that we look at with the with the pilot project, podcast. I think one of the most important things is that what you're doing is you're sharing those stories of the RCAF. You know, we wanna help to to get further exposure through our own channels, through the magazine, through online, through social media to get that messaging out. But it's also now to look at, you know, what other stories can we tell that are not specific to the RCAF. Mhmm.
Mike:There's a lot of incredible things that are happening in the world of Canadian aviation, So we can talk about things that are, say, special mission related type operations. Prime example, you know, Quebec has two c l four fifteen water bombers that were being used under contract with LA County Fire to help fight the fires. They've been they've been there for almost twenty years where they've been holding that contract. That would be a pretty interesting story to tell people about, hey. Did you know that these there's these opportunities that you can be a aerial firefighting pilot?
Mike:What about flying in the air medical community? Fixed wing. We also look at, you know, contract opportunities where you have, civilian contract pilots that are flying with, example, the Dutch Coast Guard
Bryan:Mhmm.
Mike:Down in Curacao. You know, they're flying there under contract with PALS. So so there's some pretty interesting things that are happening in the world of Canadian aviation that the air force, obviously, that will still be your the number one priority. But everyone now and then, it might be nice to kinda dabble into some of these other special mission type, communities within Canadian aviation.
Bryan:Yeah. I think it's gonna be a super interesting opportunity to kind of expand some of our topics. And I'm really looking forward to learning how those other people do the business.
Mike:Awesome.
Bryan:So you're a busy guy running a very successful publishing company. What is one thing you do to stay ready to do your job?
Mike:It it comes down to what I said earlier. It's it's just listening. You know, there's a lot of different facets of the industry that we're trying to to cover. You know, if you look at yourself with your previous career where you're flying the Aurora, your your knowledge or your focus was on that community, whereas I go from a to z. So it's trying to make sure, like, how do you how are you tracking what's going on in the RCAF?
Mike:How are you tracking what's going on the maintenance repair and overhaul world within helicopters? How do you how do you monitor what's going in offshore oil and gas? Like, there's all these things, that you have to try to to cover, but what helps, it goes back to that team. So that team that we've surrounded ourselves with, as I tell people, you're only as successful as the people you surround yourself with. And that's where I really can't stress enough that we have surrounded ourselves with an amazing group of people that help, not help.
Mike:They've been instrumental in allowing us, allowing me to do what I do. I mean, this is a passion that it hasn't changed from when we first started doing this. I'm still excited about aviation today as I was when I started doing this or when I went to that first London air show. But it's because of those people that they allow us to do, what we are, and we we hire someone. You give them a task.
Mike:This is we hired you to do this. Let them do what you hired them to do, and don't micromanage them.
Bryan:Mhmm.
Mike:So that's really helped. I've got a great team of editors. I got a great team of photographers. And, I think one of the the one of the best things I've got an amazing partner in this, you know, having Linda, you know, that's that's really how is what made this be successful. Mhmm.
Mike:Know? It's not I'm doing this on my own. No. This is a fifty fifty between between Linda and I.
Bryan:Mhmm.
Mike:And, you know, Linda, she was she was all in when we started this. And what made it work is it was because I I was doing that editorial side. I was doing the photography side. I was doing what people see. Linda was responsible for all the behind the scenes, you know, making sure the business was running the way it should run and and things like that.
Mike:So I can honestly say it would not be what it is today because of the people we surround ourselves with, but also because Linda and I are doing this together.
Bryan:Yeah.
Mike:That's that's really key. And that's a rarity, you know, in doesn't matter what you do in business, but to have a husband and wife that can work work well together. I can honestly tell you, I mean, we started this business in 02/2002. We have not had an argument about this business. That's awesome.
Mike:Because she just listens to me. I don't get it because that's no. I listen to her. It's just it it's it's worked out.
intro:Yeah.
Mike:It worked out. We're we're very lucky with what we with what we do.
Bryan:Yeah. I can totally relate to that. I feel super fortunate to have Melissa, my wife, as the editor. And not just the editor, but she knows what we need to do. I can bounce ideas off of her.
Bryan:I can talk to her when I'm stressed about the projects that we're working on. Whatever it is, we get through it together, and it just makes it so much more enjoyable.
Mike:It does. And, you know, and now it makes it even that much more enjoyable is that now that that my kids are involved. You know? And this was something that I I tell I tell the kids. I say, you know, you will be the hardest workers here at this company.
Mike:You're not working here because you're a Reno. You're working here because you earned that position. And that's one of the things that's hard too when you're when you're a business owner, forgetting about what we do. But as a business owner, like, people think that it's a, you know, it's a free pass when you see
Bryan:Family.
Mike:An owner's kid coming in. Yeah. You see the the family come into the business. No. No.
Mike:And if anything, it was people that work here that were pushing to have them join the company because of what their skill set is.
Bryan:Mhmm.
Mike:We were looking we were looking for people that had that skill set, and it just worked out naturally.
Bryan:That's awesome. You've worked with a ton of pilots. What qualities have the best pilots had in your experience?
Mike:Wait. So so this question can can get me in trouble because, you know, there's a lot of different personalities that you that you deal with as pilots. Doesn't matter if you're in the air force or the civilian world. But I can honestly say it's it's those pilots that are you know, they're the humble pilots that they're they'll do anything to help you. They've always been great to work with.
Mike:You know, you do have pilots that I've flown with where it's they get in front of the camera, and they wanna show that, hey. I'm the best pilot that there is. And but then you have to have the ability to push back and say, hey. I don't need you to do this. Yeah.
Mike:You know? I've had that happen a few times where I've gone, you know, hey. We're we're gonna stop right now because I don't need to know that you're the world's greatest pilot. But I've seen that, you know, the helicopter guys and gals, they don't get that sort of acknowledgment that they deserve, but some of the best pilots are are helicopter pilots when you look at what they do. For sure.
Mike:You know, I'm I remember I used to give some presentations to cadets. Okay? And and they'd always wanna talk about helicopters. But the first thing I would I would go in, I would say, you know, who here wants to be a fighter pilot? And you probably 80% of them put up their hand.
Mike:And then you would go through who wants to be fly transports? You know? And then and then you get down to helicopter, and there'd be that one or two people that put up their hand, and they'd be embarrassed to put up their hand. I wanna be a helicopter pilot. I would give my presentation about helicopters, and by the end of it, I had reversed it all, where now everyone's putting their hand, I wanna be a helicopter pilot.
Mike:Right? It it's just it's a, it's a different community. It's a blue collar, white collar. That's kind of the ways I describe it as well between the helicopter community and the and the fixed wing community. But I said, I've flown with with many pilots.
Mike:I've flown with with some truly amazing pilots. I've I've never been in a situation except once when a pilot made me nervous. So it's and it's interesting. Like, you there's a lot of personalities that are that are out there that you fly with. But it's having the ability to identify that, okay, if you have, you know, you have a pilot that's maybe wants to push things a little more because there's a camera or you're doing video, is that how you can kinda bring them back down to what you need.
Mike:So having the ability to say no to some of the pilots also works for you.
Bryan:Yeah. No kidding.
Mike:Yep.
Bryan:Yeah. I I fully agree with with what you're saying. I've said for a long time, the best pilots are are humble professionals. And, you know, the best pilots know that they're always learning and there's always gonna be more to learn and you're never gonna
Mike:be the best. So If if you get to the point that you say you're the best, you might as well just finish finish your career.
Bryan:Yeah. You're done. Hang up the keys. Yep. So there are a lot of amateur aviation photographers out there.
Bryan:What advice would you give to someone who wants to make the jump to doing it as a profession?
Mike:I think the number one thing is is be different. There's so many times, like, we have our annual photo contest between all the magazines. Between both magazines, we probably receive over 4,000 images.
intro:Wow.
Mike:On the helicopter side, we always see a lot of of different types of imagery just because of what helicopters are doing, the missions they do. They're, you know, they're not landing at an airport like you're watching airliners land at an airport, and you're sitting at the end of a runway taking pictures. So it's a little different on the helicopter side. But on the fixed wing side, we constantly see the same thing. But all of a sudden, I'll see something like, well, that's different, and that catches my attention.
Mike:And that's why I say is that you look at what everyone else is doing and don't do that. Do something that you can create that's your own. What's your own signature? It's funny is that I we we probably have nearly 400,000 images on file here at MHM Publishing. Wow.
Mike:I can look at at an image, and I know who the photographer is without having to look at a photo credit. Because what I've learned is what their style is. You know? How do they take a photo? And so that's the biggest thing is that be different in how you're approaching things, get different angles, be more creative with taking the photo.
Mike:And I think the the big thing today, now more than ever, is that what really gets our attention is that if you have the ability to also take video. So it goes back to, you know, how people are receiving information, what are we seeing on social media, YouTube, and things like that. And, you know, we're we're quite big on on YouTube. So that also gets our attention if we're seeing that, oh, this person can take video content as well. So that's a that's a big thing.
Mike:And then for some of them, we constantly get asked, like, how do I get to go fly in a fighter? How do I get to to how do I get to go up and do basically, like, a lot of things that I used to do? As I mentioned earlier, things have changed. It's not as easy today as it was back when I started doing this. There still are some opportunities to do it, but it's basically it's demonstrating that, a, you have the the capability as a photographer to do it, that you're professional on how you're approaching it.
Mike:There's still those opportunities where we're seeing new photographers come in. I have one one gentleman that's he's been working full time for me now for five years, Lloyd Horgan. Young guy, he came from nothing, and I gave him a chance. And he is he's one of the best videographer aviation videographers and photographers that's out there in the world because he was different on how he approached things. And I think that's the big thing is that you have to there's a part when you're an aviation photographer is that you have to take the aviation enthusiasm part out of it and be a professional.
Mike:And sometimes people can't draw that line of how do I do this professionally. And it's not, oh, I get to go fly in a helicopter, or, oh, I get to go fly in this. That's just the tool that allows you to do what you're doing.
Bryan:Mhmm.
Mike:So I find that we're seeing some, the new the newer generation, if you wanna call that, that are coming up, and there are some incredibly talented photographers out there. They they surpassed what what I was able to do, but look where technology is, where we talk about digital cameras. Yeah. You know, you're taking hundreds of frames in in one pass of an aircraft. So it's changed.
Mike:So it allows you to to do things that are different. So so my number one piece of advice is be different. Okay.
Bryan:Okay, Mike. That's gonna wrap up our chat for today. I just wanna thank you so much for your time. I know you're a busy guy, so I really appreciate you taking the time to chat with us today. I'm really looking forward to our partnership and all the great things that's gonna bring.
Bryan:So, yeah, thank you very much.
Mike:You know what? This has been it's been an honor to be to be on here and to tell a little bit about the story of of how I got into this and a little bit about MHM Publishing. But like like we said, this, this partnership that we have with the pilot project, we're excited by it, and, there's gonna be a lot of great opportunities that come from it.
Bryan:Okay. That's gonna wrap up our chat with Mike Reno, all about his career in air to air photography with the RCAF, as well as all his publication efforts. For our next episode, we sit down with very special guest, major general Chris McKenna, commander of one Canadian Air Division for a super interesting three part series. Part one will feature our discussion on his career, including his early days in flight training, his tours in Afghanistan, as well as his time as the CEO of four fifty tactical helicopter squadron, which is our Chinook squadron. Do you have any questions or comments about anything you've heard in this show?
Bryan:Would you or someone you know make a great guest, or do you have a great idea for a show? You can reach out to us at the pilotprojectpodcast@gmail.com or on all social media at at pod pilot project. And be sure to check out that social media for lots of great videos of our RCAF aircraft. As always, we'd like to thank you for tuning in and ask for your help with the big three. That's like and follow us on social media, share with your friends, and follow and rate us five stars wherever you get your podcasts.
Bryan:That's all for now. Thanks for listening. Keep the blue side up. See you.