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Film reviews that are real, introspective and fun!
Hey, everyone. Welcome back to Reeling It In, the podcast where we take a moment to reel in the best and worst film moments while keeping our commentary a % real. I'm Jack Williams and I'm today, I'm joined by
Anish:Hello. I'm Anish Topiwala. Also like movies. That's
Anish:about it.
Jack:And my brother,
Matt:Matthew Williams. I like movies as well.
Anish:Oh, I forgot he was your brother.
Matt:Yeah. Oh my god. My brother. Everybody learns every day. Like, there's there's someone who finds out about it.
Anish:Yeah. I just relearned it, so cool.
Jack:Because we got we got the twins here, but no one ever remembers that we're brothers, which No.
Matt:And and like, literally, somebody finds out about it every single day.
Jack:Mhmm. Someone I actually was recently talking to someone who thought I was joking when I said we were siblings, but just because we have the same last names, but no, we are siblings. Mhmm. If you think I'm into movies, this guy is probably beats me 50 fold. Don't know.
Jack:He was the one who got me into movies. I would not be here talking about movies today without him.
Matt:First Are saying I'm the reason for reeling it in existing?
Jack:Yeah. We could make that jump. Could say that. But we're here today to talk about Matt's work a little bit. He's a filmmaker here at MSU.
Jack:He does short films for the major and all sorts of things. And he has a new movie coming out. But before we talk about that, I want to talk about Anish a little bit, because he is a new face here.
Anish:I am a new face, yeah.
Jack:Because Kyra isn't joining us today. But Anish will be joining us as co host next year, next school year. So I wanted to have him on to feel it out. Anish, why don't you tell us a little bit about your movie interests, what got you into it, all that kind of Yeah,
Anish:for sure. I'm very excited. I've always liked movies. Was my first passion in middle school. I didn't really know what I wanted to do.
Anish:And movies was kind of like the first fixation where it's kind of shifted throughout the years. But I remember watching The Shining on Netflix in my laptop. I didn't realize movies could do that. Didn't realize movies could be something other than what you're seeing right in front of you. There's so many things under the surface.
Anish:And then I got into a lot of Kubrick movies, a lot of older eighties, seventies. Then after that, it just became one of the things I always focused on. I really enjoyed just watching a lot of movies in middle school and high school, but now I don't have time for that obviously, just because I'm so busy.
Jack:Oh, it's hard to find time.
Anish:But I moved until I got an interest to writing, and now it's just whatever I can do to make money to write, I'll do. Honestly. I'm kind of
Jack:on the same thing. I wanna say the first and I think I've talked about this before. I wanna say I've talked about this before. But the first movie that got me into movies was Blade Runner. And that was due to Matt showing me Blade Runner.
Jack:But Matt, I'll ask you the same question. What got you into movies? I already know the answer to this, but for our audience.
Matt:Yeah. For me, I think it was not really just or I guess not clicking much with anything else when I was younger. You know, similarly to you, it was kind of this discovery of like, oh, this is something that you can do. You know, it's not just a form of entertainment. It was much more active for me in that sense.
Matt:Like, I would watch something and say, oh, like, how can I do this? Or how can I achieve something similar? Yeah, I mean, nothing else was really clicking in school. I wasn't really good at, like, math or science or anything else. So after, you know, sort of getting into movies and just being really enamored by everything I was watching, I decided to sort of make my own stuff.
Matt:And mostly that was just with a phone and some friends and Jack, occasionally. And then from there, I just started making stuff. I've just kept making stuff.
Jack:Curious, what's your experience been like at MSU? So here at MSU, for those of you who don't know, we have digital storytelling, that's your major, which is basically the filmmaking major. So I guess I'd be curious what your experience has been. What was it like making the leap from just kind of doing it with an iPhone back at home to kind of being surrounded by people who have a similar passion?
Matt:Yeah, I think, I mean, the biggest difference is really just the resources,
Jack:I think,
Matt:whether that's equipment or people. You know, you get here and then there's people who know a lot more than you, and then you have all this equipment that you've never seen before in your life. And so, coming here, really just like this opening of the doors for me. Was like, oh, look at all this stuff that I have access to now and how many opportunities I can now take to learn all the different aspects of filmmaking. Because growing up, I was one of those guys, was like, oh, I'm going be a director.
Matt:I'm going to make all these awesome movies. Next And then you get here, there's 20 other guys who are thinking the same thing. So you get here and then you take that as an opportunity. You step back and you say, oh, there's so much more that goes into filmmaking. Being here has let me explore all those different things that I could potentially do professionally.
Anish:How does it feel like working on a film set as opposed to just working at home with your iPhone and a few friends? How humbling is that experience? Because I remember being on a few sets and it's just like, wow, there's so many things going on. At the same time, it's a lot of chaos, kind of like controlled chaos.
Matt:Yeah. No, it's crazy because you realize just how much you don't know. The first couple sets I was on coming here, you know, in hindsight, they were really kind of basic, you know, like, not super advanced equipment or whatever. But the first couple sets that was on, it really did kind of humble me. I was like, oh my god.
Matt:Like, I thought I was like, you know
Jack:You thought you were ahead?
Matt:Yeah. And it's like, I kind of had this cynical view where I was coming in. Was like, do I really need all this education and whatnot? And then you get here and you're like, yeah, you do.
Jack:You absolutely
Matt:do. And it did take me a while to get into that headspace of, yeah, I don't know everything and it would be best for me to kind of keep an open mind and soak all this stuff in. It kind of took me a while to get to that point. But once I did, that's kind of when I got more comfortable being on set and asking questions and realizing that, no, I'm not going to know everything right off the bat. That's the way you learn, just by asking questions and just getting more experience.
Jack:Yeah. So what did you kind of start with? Because I know you mentioned you kind of wanted to be the director, to be the next Spielberg, so to speak. And obviously, you didn't start with directing. But then last year, you came out with Carina, which was a short film you wrote and directed.
Jack:What was that journey like? Where did you start? How did you get to starting to direct things?
Matt:Yeah. I mean, that was really just a class project. And know, it like four or five of us, or five or six of us, you know, just kind of working with the prompt that we had, you know, make a short film five to seven minutes in length, know, come up with a script, we kind of made that over the course of the semester. And yeah, I think with that, it was just kind of, it was a group project. We were all still learning.
Matt:We'd had a couple classes before because that was done in the Filmmaking three Capstone. So we had Film one and we had Film two that built us up to that experience. And our professor then basically just said, Okay, now make a short film and make it good. Because this professor, have his name's Amal, and he's very I could see you nodding over there. He's not going to sugarcoat things for you.
Matt:He expects good work. So we knew from the get go that we needed to make sure that what we did with that film was better than stuff we'd done
Jack:in other classes. And better it was. If you guys haven't seen Karina, I really urge you to check it out. It's on YouTube. It's called KarinaandAIRomCom.
Jack:It'll be under Matt Williams, his account.
Matt:And just to clarify, no AI was No AI was used to make It's about an AI program and it's like two people's relationship with it. It was definitely a very collaborative thing because it was literally five or six of us just kind of taking on these roles, kind of filling in the gaps where needed. Everybody had some kind of hand in every aspect of the process. So it definitely really cool in
Jack:that Definitely check it out. Very funny, very humorous. I'm a big fan
Anish:of Are you the kind of person who doesn't like looking back at your old work, like watching stuff you made like a year ago? Because I think it came out around a year ago now.
Jack:Yeah.
Anish:Are you that kind of person?
Matt:I mean, I I don't really go back and rewatch stuff. I just kinda like I mean, sometimes, like, people will find it and be like, oh, did you do this? I'm like, yeah. Like, here's the link. But, you know, I'll never go back and watch it because, like, it I mean, it's it's, you know, it's always especially my more recent projects, I'm, you know, a fan of, too.
Matt:I think they're good. And I'm happy to have had those experiences. But when I watch my own stuff, there's just something about it.
Jack:I think if your old stuff doesn't make you cringe a little, it's like, what do you do? I'll go back and read my articles from last year, from around this time or even before, I'll just, ugh. I cannot look at that.
Matt:Because you've grown so much.
Jack:Yeah, exactly. It's a sign. It's a sign you're growing. It's a sign you're developing as an artist, as a writer, whatever else. But we're not here to talk about a film you made a year ago.
Jack:We are here to talk about a film that you are currently making. I don't know the title, but please tell us about it.
Matt:Yes. So the film that I'm currently working on is called Me. Exe. Me. Exe.
Matt:Yes, Me. Exe. And it is about a college e sports player who comes across a sentient AI program that basically helps her improve her gaming skills. And throughout the film, we learnor this character learns that the program is actually much more sinister than it initially appears. So it's sort of this blend between horror and thriller.
Matt:And, yeah, I mean, it's going to be really good. I'm excited excited about where we are in the process.
Jack:It seems like you're putting a lot of work in it. I saw all these crazy visual effects that were going into it, a lot of makeup and stuff that looked very cool. One thing I am curious about, though, is you seem very interested in interrogating the use of AI. Is that intentional or something you're interested in?
Matt:Actually, no, it wasn't intentional at all. Because the idea for this film kind of came from a pitch contest almost within the class. And the class I'm taking is the topics for filmmaking. And at the beginning we kind of had this pitch like, okay, everybody write kind of an idea, submit it to the professors and they'll pick. And so it wasn't my idea at all.
Matt:A friend of mine's idea. I was asked to help write the script, but they sort of came up with this idea of like an AI, like a hostile sort of AI program. But when you do look at it, it is funny because of the two
Jack:Yeah, Karina's very much about an AI ruining relationships.
Matt:Yeah, and also the lead actor for this film we're working on was also the lead actor for
Anish:what's up? Really Thomas?
Matt:Riley Wine.
Jack:Oh, yeah, Gotcha, gotcha. Yeah, very great performance in Carina.
Matt:Yeah, it is kind of funny when you
Jack:think about it that way.
Anish:Do know what stage of production you're at right now? I'm just curious.
Matt:Yeah. We're in post production. You know, we gotta premiere the film in a month, but, you know, we're still trying to lock down, you know, visual effects and sound and music and all that. But
Anish:How it look like being in the editing room? Like, I'm assuming you're not editing the film. Someone else is doing it.
Matt:Yes. That is Brennan. He's our he's our editor right now. He's doing a great job. It's it's for him, I assume it's it's just a lot of looking at a computer screen and, you know, putting stuff together.
Matt:Sometimes I'll sit in with him in our editing suite at at Com Arts, and we'll just kinda go over stuff. But, yeah, it's pretty cool. We haven't we haven't had anything sweet there. We have some awesome surround sound, you know, huge monitor. It's it's pretty cool.
Jack:Mhmm. Does it does it feel like you're making a capstone? I mean, I'm assuming it does, but I mean, just the idea, I feel like, ofI'm assuming you're working with people you've been working with for the last four years. I mean, you're a senior, you're graduating in the spring. Does it kind of feel like this is your representation of, like, this is everything I've learned in the past four years, I can do this now, and I'm showing you that?
Matt:Yeah, it definitely does feel like a culmination. Because in this class, we haven't just been working on this film, but we've done spec ads for different brands and stuff. So, we've gotten a lot of experience, like everybody in sort of different fields. I've not only gotten to direct this film, but I got to do sound mixing for one of the ads we did. Definitely does feel like kind of a test of all the skills that I've learned over the past few years in different classes.
Jack:Yeah. One thing, because I've heard you talk about this a lot, about the workload for being a digital storytelling student and how much is sort of asked of you in class versus how much you kind of have to do out of class to truly develop as a filmmaker. Could you speak to that a little bit?
Matt:Yeah. I think
Anish:the
Matt:extracurricular commitment is definitely real. Mhmm. There is next With
Jack:this movie, have you had to put I mean, it seemed like you were kind of putting a lot. I mean, this guy was doing Zoom calls over winter break, I feel like. Yeah. So, yeah, and that'll continue.
Matt:No, no. You're right. It's like, I mean, even during breaks, there's sort of this, I mean, know for other classes it's different. Some of the more beginner level classes, there's not that much of an expectation that you're making yourself available during break or whatever. But for a class like this where it's like, it really is kind of, you know, these are people that professors have asked to join the class.
Matt:So it's really kind of this expectation that, yeah, don't have to be available all the time, but be available when needed. And kind of just outside of that, these class times are not long. They're about as long as any other class. It's two hours, three hours at most. So if you're meeting twice a week for two hours, you can't really make a film on that.
Matt:So there is definitely, I think, if you want to be a film student, there is sort of this requirement of be ready to collaborate with group members and meet and find times to meet where you can actually make this film or this ad or whatever you're making. I think that's definitely a requirement.
Jack:You're ready to put in some elbow grease outside of class.
Anish:Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I can imagine it's always rewarding work. It's probably a lot of the time just like grueling, like rewriting, rewriting, or like editing and editing, just like talking with people, like a lot of collaboration.
Matt:Yeah, yeah. Because, you know, that's, you kind of have to do that. I mean, you you have to when you're setting up a project, when you're in pre production, you have to be willing to have those meetings, like back to back to back and and, know, sit through those and kind of just grind through those and make sure that what your plan is to achieve something like a film or an ad or whatever, making sure that you're allocating the proper amount of time beforehand and like doing the correct amount of preparation. Mhmm. Because if you go into these like productions, you know, with no plan or no preparation, it's gonna fall apart Yeah.
Matt:So quickly.
Jack:Yeah. How much is different, you know, from when you're back at home with friends just kinda like
Matt:shooting Well, because like when we did Candle, like Yeah. On my phone, it was like we shot that in like a day. Mhmm. No lighting, no sound.
Jack:And you know, did turn out kinda for for the time, think it turned out pretty well, that film we made.
Matt:It was definitely fun because it was the first time that I was like, Okay, I'm going make a film and see what it is. But you can't do that now. As a student, they're trying to prepare you to work in an industry that's already so, so hard to get into. So they really kind of want to sell on you, like, yeah, you're going to have to go through these meetings and you're going to have to find time out of class to meet with people and make films.
Jack:Things aren't going to work out, you know?
Matt:Yeah. Like, there's definitely times even when you put in all this preparation, things go sideways and you have to adapt and figure and and so, you know, that's just kinda how it is as a as a filmmaker.
Anish:Mhmm. Yeah. I can't imagine, like, the the idea of the film you started with, I guess, at the start of your capstone is how it looks like now. How much has it changed since you
Matt:started working on It's changed so much. The draft that we went into filming with was draft 10 of the script. And that kind of sucked because it was, you know, as a writer, and I think, Jack, you probably understand this too because you've written tons of plays, you know, and I'm sure you've had feedback, like people give you feedback on those plays. Like, it's really, it's not the best when people sit there, and especially when the writers and I were sitting there in front of the whole class and reading our script to them. Oh, did they grill you guys?
Matt:Yeah. And so it's definitely changed so much. The way that it got from point A to point Z now, it can be tough sometimes.
Jack:I'm sure there's a lot of compromise you have to make. If everyone's saying, we don't like this bit and you're so attached to it, I can't imagine that's easy, just letting go of something that you're truly invested in.
Matt:Yeah. No, the compromise never ends from preproduction, like when we're writing the script and sharing with people to even now, postproduction. Because every draft that Brendan sends my way into the rest of the class, we open up a document, we go through the time stamps, we jot down our notes and say, Okay, we need to change this, we need to change that. And everybody's putting their notes there. So it's always kind of like, oh, should we include this?
Matt:Contradictory. Somebody will say, oh, I really like this bit right here. And then somebody else will be like, I hate it. Hate it. It's like you have to be willing to collaborate.
Matt:There's moments where somebody will say, I think this and I might disagree and how do you go about that? So it's definitely a big part of the process.
Anish:Do you ever put your foot down as, correct me if I'm wrong, you're the of this project? Do you ever really have to put your foot down and be like, no, we're keeping this in, this is important at the script, this is important at the plot of the movie, a choice, maybe a sound bite or just a shot? Have ever done that?
Matt:I'd say I've never had to put my foot down or anything. People have always been very respectful. I'm very lucky to work with the people that I'm working with because I've had class projects before where maybe I haven't been so The collaboration hasn't been great with I'm trying to find
Jack:a way
Matt:to dance around, but you know what I mean, though. And I'm very lucky with this project that I have the classmates and collaborators that I do, because they're all so wonderful and so, so talented. So, like, with creative choices, it's never really been like putting my foot down. It's been like, okay, somebody has an opinion, they have kind of a way that they want to see things happen. You know, let's talk about it.
Matt:Let's see if we because there there have been so many times throughout this process, like literally countless times where somebody said like, hey, have you considered this? Or hey, this doesn't look right. And then you look back and you're like, oh, you're absolutely right. And that's not to say that sometimes somebody will say something and I'll be like, I don't know if I agree with that. It's never been a grueling process in that regard.
Matt:It's felt very collaborative and very open, at least from my end. Gotcha. Just curious about I
Jack:guess now I'd just ask you, reflecting on four year because I have the advantage of seeing your opinions on being a filmmaker and wanting to do this, blah, just kind of by nature of living with you my entire life. I have the advantage of kind of seeing that develop. But I'd be curious how you think these last four years have treated you. Has it made you into the filmmaker you want to be? Do you feel like you're kind of ready to get out there?
Jack:Yeah. How has these last four years been?
Matt:No. I mean, I'm nowhere near the filmmaker or
Jack:Yeah. I guess let me rephrase. Do you feel like this is the point do feel like you've reached a point where you're like, okay, yeah, like, is kind of what I wanted to get out of these four years of
Matt:Well, yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, in that sense, like Mhmm. Yeah. I think I think I've learned a lot these four years.
Matt:Yeah. I've I've gotten to experience a lot of cool things, that a lot of people don't get to experience. I feel very, very fortunate in that regard. But, yeah, I I don't I think there's so much more to learn. And I'm nowhere near, like, where I want to be because I directed this project, which it sounds cool.
Matt:It's like, oh, the director, whatever. I didn't get to focus so much on the technical aspects. That's the stuff that I think really kind of makes you valuable when you go into the industry. So, you know, I got to watch other people kind of learn that and experience that. So it's kinda when I think about it that way, it's like, yeah, directed it, but, you know, I I might not be as knowledgeable about some of the things that, you know, it it'd be cool to be knowledgeable about Sure.
Matt:Because I had that role. You know? But so there's definitely a long ways to go until I feel like like I'm super comfortable with where I'm at. Mhmm. Because there's still a lot that I have to learn.
Matt:Yeah. But in terms of, like, looking back back on these past four years, I've I've learned a lot. I've met a lot of cool people, gotten to be a part of some really cool projects. Yeah.
Jack:Yeah. And this is great, because I feel like on this show we talk so much about the finished product. We do a lot of criticism, we do a lot of analysis and just kind of like general speak. But I think it's amazing to kind of hear about like and obviously you're not making Hollywood feature films, but it's nice to kind of see the listen to the work that goes into this kind of things, because we don't always talk about the amount of drafts that need to happen and all the compromising that needs to happen and all these other things. So it's always great to hear about that.
Anish:Yeah, for sure. Well, just you, actually. I don't do that. It's my first time doing this.
Matt:Oh, yeah. So, Jack, so to throw the question back at you, do you feel like after you're kind of and I I know you still have some school left to go. I do. But, know, like after, you know, these past couple years, like, how how do you think like, do you think you're becoming the writer that you want to be, like, in regard to your own sort of journalistic
Jack:Yeah. Yeah. I I think so.
Matt:Because you're a columnist.
Jack:Yeah, I am a columnist. Which I
Matt:work I don't
Jack:know if I've talked about that on the show, because we don't really talk about my writing as much.
Matt:Well, we're going to talk about it right now.
Jack:Yeah, really throwing the question back. No, that's awesome. Yeah, I think my first year here, was a reporter. And then kind of near the end of last semester, last spring not last semester, but last spring I was like, I kind of like this column thing. I think I might want to get into this.
Jack:We kind of talked about making that a position here. And we did. So then semester or last semester, mean, so this year I started as a flick. That was my position, like a columnist. And I think the first semester I wrote a lot more opinion y things, because that's kind of what I think a columnist is, someone who writes opinions.
Jack:That was just kind of my view on it. And then I started to kind of get into this headspace of like, maybe it's a little different. I started reading a lot more, essentially, what I was saying. I started reading a lot more, like kind of magazine journalists and other columnists and stuff. And I kind of started to see, like, columning can actually just kind of be reporting, but with more of a narrative voice.
Jack:And then especially this semester, I'm taking a Joan Didion class, which is just like about her we're just learning about her work and reading her and kind of writing about some of, kind of writing in a similar way that she would. And it was through that where I kind of realized, I really was like, I think this is kind of the kinds of stories I want to tell, of reporting and talking to people and telling people's stories, but kind of inserting myself in the narrative and writing it from my perspective.
Matt:How does that feel compared to writing from a more objective AP style?
Jack:I think there's some things.
Anish:I was going to say, because do you feel like you have more freedom reporting
Jack:Oh, I'm a columnist. I mean, one of the last stories I did, The Art of the Party.
Matt:Oh, yeah.
Jack:Was literally, I went to house parties, and I wrote about them. And I wrote about my experience there. And kind of what I discovered was this kind of scene that exists of people who party and kind of like the dynamics that exist between this type of party and this type of party and why certain people aren't allowed in certain places kind of socially. And, yeah, I think that's one of those stories where, you know, you could give it to a reporter and they could tell the story well. But I think it's one of those stories that is kind of best told with this sort of narrative style, because Iand, actually, we had tried to write the story, like other reporters had tried to kind of tackle of a similar story.
Jack:And it ended up just kind of dropping because it's Not that they're not talented or whatever, but it's kind of just like a hard story to tell when you have to kind of conform to all these journalistic rules and blah blah blah.
Anish:No. Yeah. I hate that sometimes. Like Mhmm. I don't even know what I'm doing anymore.
Anish:It's like I feel like I'm just kinda I'm just trying to write to make money now. It's like I'm liking the way it's going. But it's like I totally get you where it's like I always want more freedom when I'm writing and like sometimes journalism
Jack:doesn't allow Right. I think even as reporters, I think and this might be a little controversial. I think you should always be trying to like be as creative as possible. Because I mean, worst case, your editor just takes it out and tells you to rewrite it, you know? And that's kind of the headspace I was in at one point, I like, I'm just going to try and write this as creative as possible.
Jack:And if my editor doesn't like it, then she doesn't like it, and I have to write a new version. Or she just edits it or whatever. But that's kind of where I started to get into this. I was like, Okay, well if I just write columns, can kind of write how I feel, kind of insert myself in the story, there's no issue there. So yeah, I'd say I'm definitely I think this is kind kind of writing I want to do.
Jack:And this last year has been really helpful for me to figure that out.
Matt:Now you just need to get an internship with The New York Times or something. That's the big next step.
Anish:No, it's a pretty small step. That's a pretty small step.
Matt:In the grand scheme of things, it's not
Anish:that big.
Jack:Well, this has been reeling it in. Oh, Matt, next film, please tell
Matt:us when
Jack:it's coming.
Matt:I gotta unplug this a little bit. Yeah, so April 23 at Studio C Meridian Mall.
Jack:Studio C. Okemos? Yeah.
Matt:Okemos. Studio C Meridian Mall in Okemos. We are showing me. Exe for the first time as part of a larger digital story, digital storytelling showcase. It starts at 08:15, I believe.
Jack:Okay. I could have
Matt:that wrong. But 08:15, we'll be showing the film. All the filmmakers will be there so you can ask us tons of questions Mhmm. About how we made this movie. It's gonna be really fun.
Jack:I will be there. You can ask me all kinds of questions.
Matt:Jack will be there. Ask Jack about reeling it in. But yeah, please come. We're trying to fill seats. Yeah.
Jack:Please get out there. Support local filmmakers. It's a great thing.
Anish:Totally free, right?
Jack:Free. Completely free. Yeah. Well, this has been Reeling It In. I'm Jack.
Jack:This is Anish. This is Matt. Next week, Kyra will be back. But if you hang in until next fall, Anish will be our next co host. So I just kind of wanted to introduce everyone to him.
Jack:We're gonna have a great time next year talking about all things cinema.
Anish:A lot of movies.
Jack:But as always, thank you. Thank you to Taylor, our podcast coordinator. And remember, if you oh, thank you to our guests. If you have any film opinions that you'd like us to hear and talk about, make sure you email me at jack.williams@statenews.com, and we'll talk about it on the show. But until then, see you.