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Maarten Van Ruitenburg is the CEO of MDT, makers of fine firearms parts and accessories and the inventor of the term "Legendarism". Every product MDT designs, creates and releases must be continually checked through a process of asking "is this product legendary". If the answer is no, it doesn't get released.
Meet the man who has taken MDT to the next level by embracing his core values and creating a company culture which supports his co-workers to achieve their best.
As an added bonus, Maarten discusses for the first time a brand new product that MDT has in the works!
https://www.instagram.com/mdttac21/
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The Silvercore Podcast explores the mindset and skills that build capable people. Host Travis Bader speaks with hunters, adventurers, soldiers, athletes, craftsmen, and founders about competence, integrity, and the pursuit of mastery, in the wild and in daily life. Hit follow and step into conversations that sharpen your edge.
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I'm Travis Bader and this is the
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If you'd like to learn more
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Silvercore Club and community,
visit our website at, silvercore.ca
Today I am joined by the CEO of
MDT, makers of fine firearms,
accessories, and rifle.
Chasses.
Welcome to the silver Corp podcast.
Maarten Van Ruitenburg.
Thank you for having me Maarten I'm
really excited to have you on the podcast.
It's I've been watching MDT grow for a
very long time now, and you guys are at,
it appears from your social media anyways.
In a stage of even greater expansion,
it looks like you're getting into
a new building and maybe some new
things coming down the pipe that
we might be able to talk about.
But before we go there, I kind
of want to get a little bit of
background for myself and for the
listeners on, on you and kind of.
How you came in to
MDT?
Yeah, absolutely.
Uh, I came into MDT in 2012, late 2012.
It was a kind of an interesting time.
Um, I was a supply chain manager back
then and Chilliwack had a company
that was bought out by a company in
California and it was a big management
change and I was out of work.
Um, I'd always been somewhat
entrepreneurial, always been
looking at creating my own
businesses and getting involved.
Somebody connected me with
a lousy local Memphis.
Uh, yes.
I know Laszlo, you know, a lot of
people locally here will know him.
He was quite active in
the shooting community.
Especially back then today.
He seems to be busy with
having kids and stuff.
Um, but, um, I was introduced to him and
he was already making the TAC 21 chassis,
which he started designing around 2009.
That's
right.
That's right.
The MDT TAC 21.
That was the very first flagship.
That came out.
Wasn't it?
That's exactly
right.
Yes.
Yeah.
So when I was asked to, uh, work
with them, I said, now give me
some time, I'll look online and see
what people are saying about this
and see if there's anything to it.
And I looked online and there was a lot
of people, just very stoked about it.
I think, especially on Canadian gun nuts,
people were like, I want one, I want one.
I think we've got a list of some
80 people that want at one minute,
it just posted a prototype picture.
Yeah.
And, uh, so, so that looks very exciting.
And, uh, I actually started
working for MDT as a contractor
to see if I could do something.
Uh, I went to, Shacho worked hard.
I believe I walked away with 750
business cards at that shot show.
So that would have been January, 2013.
So what were you doing as a contractor?
Uh, sales and marketing.
Okay.
Yeah.
Um, and then I realized that, um, a
lot of things needed to happen at the
company in order to like, you can sell
something, but when you can't ship
it in time, it's, you know, it's not.
Not a lot of fun to sell something.
Uh, so, you know, the quick version
of it was that I ended up buying half
the company from Laszlo back then.
And so we ran a company together,
50 50 partners for a quite a number
of years until 2017, when he was
bought out by private actors.
Okay.
And, uh, yeah, so that's how,
uh, how I got involved with MDT.
So I'm not the founder Laszlo is right.
Um, so I have run the company
as the CEO since 2013.
Um, but, uh, you know, all the
product development, all the
product design, everything that
happens there, it's a Laszlo.
And, uh, today a group of
eight designers and engineers.
Constantly working on new products.
Well,
I've, I've always known Laszlo
is a very talented machinist and
somebody who's got lots of ideas.
And I remember around 2002, 2003, I
think it was, he was going by the name
of rooster 33 on Canadian gun nuts.
And he's selling M 14 cheek
pieces and muzzle breaks.
And I didn't remember, I had
moved out into, uh, a rental place
at that time with my wife and.
The place was just an absolute
dump, just a terrible place.
But I had a big backyard and I had a shop.
And so there was a shop that I was
interested in because at the time
it was not silver cord training.
I did the training, but I had silver
cord gun works and Laszlo would come
by with different muzzle breaks or
a little screws that he's making up
and I'd be parkerizing them for him.
But I remember watching as the,
uh, the whole chassis thing
started coming to fruition.
And I also remember watching a lot of
people in the gun community kind of
set down the back and trying to take
credit for giving the idea to slow for
doing this, whether that's true or not.
He was the guy who
really pushed it forward.
Yeah,
that's right.
He's the guy that made it happen.
And the reason it was called tack Tony
wanted, because it was 21 versions on
paper before it became an actual product.
See,
I didn't know that it's
kind of like WB 40.
Now we got tacked 21.
Interesting.
The whole chassis idea for some of
the listeners, they're going to know
exactly what we're talking about, but
can you describe the concept behind
the chassis and a side question?
I'm wondering, uh, how long
have chassies really been around
for?
Yeah, so I mean, the original
chassies would have come from,
uh, accuracy international, right?
Um, Lazlo actually, when he started
working on a chassis, he wanted to buy.
But he couldn't afford one.
And that's when he started
looking at making something,
since he is a machinist by trade.
Right.
And, um, he wanted to design something
that was, uh, more ergonomic and natural
to somebody that came out of military
and was used to like an AR platform.
So he wanted to do the
pistol grip and he went.
AR butts stocks.
That was a very important part for him.
Right.
And, uh, and we, you know, that made
it a modular system where you could
swap, grips out and bought stocks.
And we still pride ourselves today
on the majority of our products being
very modular and, and build it and
swap at exactly to how you would want
it.
Right.
So the, I guess, I remember.
So accuracy international, the started
there EICs actually accuracy international
chassis system and the wood glue
the receiver right into the chassis.
And they say this makes a
superior stronger product.
I think that's been tested in debate.
I believe they still glue it, don't they?
I don't know what they still do, but
that is an it's an interesting question.
And we deal with that.
A lot of people should be bedding and
gluing and all that kind of stuff.
Um, I still have a, uh, a rifle at
home in attack 21, 1 of the originals.
So, uh, Laszlo had gotten two identical
receivers, identical barrels shooting
with them, make sure that they had,
uh, very closely to the same, uh,
results when shooting them and.
But I'm in the exact same, chassies
one glued in one log glued.
And so both those rifles
still exist today.
And we have never been able to
notice a difference between in
performance between the two.
And it makes sense because the way that
all our chances are designed is the
round action always sits in a Vblock.
Right?
You do have to pay attention to
look where the V is in the, in
the block, but it has nowhere to
go when it's screwed in properly.
And.
It's since it cannot move glued
or not, there should not be
any difference in performance.
And I guess see, cause I remember when
they started coming out with aluminum
Vblocks and they're putting them in stocks
and they say, this is the latest greatest.
You no longer have to bet at anymore.
We've got this aluminum Vblock
system, but the chassis will take
that one step further and it's all
going to be integral to the chassis.
Will it, it's all going to be one solid as
opposed to a stock that's been carved out.
And then.
Got a screw on in, is that, is that
the concept?
Yeah, definitely with the tax 21, uh,
our other chances will be very similar,
but yeah, it, it sucks that action
tight into that entire chassis and,
um, it essentially becomes one with it.
Um, so over the tax, when you own, then
it also has that housing, which has
the real built-in and we see comments
where people like I would never have
the real be part of the chassis rather
than being directly on the receiver.
But again, it's, um, th there is no.
Changes in accuracy.
And as a matter of fact, that it's
actually a more solid system because
that real to simply has nowhere to go.
It's not connected by a couple of
cruises, literally machined right in.
And, uh, so I mean, you can't
argue with having a real machine
right into the action itself.
Right.
But this will be the next.
No
kidding.
So, okay.
So you came in and said, I, did
you have a background in firearms?
I did not have a background
in firearms before this.
No.
When I got involved, uh, I had
never shot a center fire before
I shut some budget stuff before.
And, um, so I had to learn.
Well,
I see your name on a lot of different, uh,
lists, competitive Les PRS style matches.
You're the CEO of a company and you want
to be out there shooting on a regular
basis.
Yeah, so I, I do, um, I don't, uh, I
mean, I can't pretend that I have all
the answers because I could, I wasn't
even shooting, you know, 10 years ago.
Right.
So what's the best way for us.
And this is not just me.
We encourage everybody else
at the company to do the same.
How could we, how could we say, we're
going to come up with all these great
products if we're not out there shooting.
So all our employees get a
monthly, uh, uh, ammo allowance.
Um, we do things we
pay for our match fees.
We want to make sure that
everybody goes out and shoot.
So it does so many things.
It will going out to shoot.
You can see what the pain points are.
You can you come up with new products,
but you also talk to the community.
Uh, and it's the same
thing for me personally.
Um, I like to be out there talking
to our customers, potential
customers, editors, whatever.
I have good relationships
with a lot of our competitors.
Um, And I want to better myself
at the same time I want to learn.
And when I just started shooting some
of the matches, it was, um, I just
wanted to, you know, just be there.
And then I was like, okay, I want
to be coming at least stop having.
And then I started shooting some matches.
I was calming and top five and couple,
and I was like, mm, I got to do more.
So I spent quite a bit of time, uh,
really figuring out what I got to do.
I spent a fair amount of time
with, uh, Ryan, Stacey, who I
believe is a phenomenal teacher.
And, uh, he helped me a
lot with a mental game.
Rollovers, Jose, you still close.
We collect an actor to a MDT.
He's helped me a ton.
Uh, we actually shot a video of one
of the matches that I shot last year.
The training that went
into it ahead of time.
Um, but I just love doing it and
I love to go out different places.
So I've shot matches
locally here I've shot.
One of the guardian matches in Ireland.
I've shot some in the U S I would have
already shot some matches in Australia and
South Africa, but then COVID hit, right.
That's kinda cut that down,
but that's still in the plants.
I don't have an objective to be coming
in number, you know, first because
the Amanda time that I would have
dedicated to that would probably.
Or maybe hurt the business.
Right.
Um, but um, I love doing it.
I loved being there and I, uh, You
know, I think that all of us should
always work on bettering ourselves.
I a hundred percent agree,
you know, it's funny.
I was out in the forest shore doing
some hunting last night and I thought,
you know, while I'm doing a little
bit of research for this podcast,
we will just I'll reach out to
Laszlo and I'll reach out to Ryan.
I'll see what kind of dirt I
can get on you and what can the
information they can provide.
No dirt, they have no dirt on you,
either that, or they keep it pretty
pretty to themselves at a Ryan was
talking about your, um, your mental
management in the, uh, in the PRS style
shooting that you're doing and how far
you've come with that, which is, um,
which just pretty inspirational for
somebody who's building a business, such
as yours and expanding the business.
It's still be able to have the time
to, I think they call it the hook.
Taking care of all the stuff at
the top, but you're still able to
hook down and use all the products
at the end user level, which.
Pretty cool.
Yeah, it is cool.
Yeah.
I'm glad I didn't have any dirt
on a, on, I mean, but you know,
uh, personally, but as a company
as well, we try to be extra neat,
transparent in everything that we do.
And, uh, you know, we screw up from
time to time and, and we, we try
to be as open as we possibly can.
So there's really, shouldn't.
Dirt out.
No, there wasn't, there wasn't anything.
And the other thing that's really cool is
how you can, a lot of times when people
get into business together, that's a very
stressful situation and those stresses
can introduce animosity between partners
and I'm not picking up on any of that.
In fact, it's quite the opposite
as it looks like you've been
able to grow the company and,
uh, build MDT to where it is now.
With the help of what Laszlo had built
in the past and you guys are still
quite, quite close, which is very a very,
yeah.
Oh, I appreciate that.
Thank you.
Um, and again, it comes with
the transparency, right?
So I'm clear with what I want
to do and where I want to go.
And if I don't do things with hidden
motions, I think that's the animosity.
At you almost get rid of it.
Um, so, you know, I can't say that
there hasn't been, you know, moments
where, you know, like any partnership
that things are kinda, you know, uh,
you disagree on things and all that,
but yeah, no, we still get along
grades, Laszlo, and I still have lunch
together from time to time, not anymore
because you know, something is keeping
us out of restaurants, but, um, that's
something, yeah, that's something
that's probably helping with.
I would think he has COVID
uh, we affected the, uh,
the sales.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
In 2020, at 2020, our sales
increased by a significant amount.
And then just this past year again,
We don't really, uh, know what part of
it is just simply, you know, our brand
growing and us, our new product creation.
Uh, and so how much of it really is
COVID related with the exception.
If we look at a couple of spikes that
we saw, especially in 2020, those
were at the exact same dates that
people were receiving stimulus checks.
So we do know there is
okay.
Well-spent stimulus check.
I love it.
Yeah.
I was pretty amazed at the, uh, the
increase in interest in not just the
outdoors community and being outdoors.
Obviously when things are locked down,
people want to be outside, but the
interest in self-sufficiency, and I think
for some people, there's a level of fear
associated that they figure that maybe
firearms can help allay those fear fears.
And Canada's sort of a different
culture, but it's not immune to it.
Then let's say in the United States,
But it's encouraging to know that if
that is a motivator behind it, that it
expands past just, Hey, I got to get
me a gun it's I actually want to go
there and get something that's quality.
I want to get something I've, I've got
a genuine, genuine interest in this
new endeavor that I'm getting into.
Yeah.
That's an interesting point,
especially on the safety side or,
uh, you know, uh, self-defense side.
I don't know that.
Buying our products in that relation,
you know, I would expect them to go to
the store and get a gun and it doesn't
really matter too much how accurate it is.
Uh, you know, they just want to.
Within reason, obviously.
Sure.
Um, and we do sell a fair amount to OEM.
So, you know, they could still
be buying our product when they
buy it rifle off the shelf.
Right.
But our aftermarket sales, uh, I think
it's probably more, you know, okay,
so now they bought it it's at three
months later, the world didn't blow up.
There's no zombies.
Um, I got to do something, but this
rifle let me start browsing online.
And hopefully I find, you
know, they find some NTT stuff.
So we were talking off air here a
little bit and you're mentioning
something that sounds really exciting.
I don't know.
Are we able to talk about this?
Uh, yeah, we'll talk about it.
Um, it is kinda funny for me to
talk about because I've been keeping
this a, uh, kind of somewhat closed
guarded secret for a few years now.
Uh, but it's my pet project and we've
been referring to it inside of MDT S E.
Uh, and, um, and the reason I can talk
about it now is because, you know, we
were patent pending and I was still a
bit uncomfortable, but we're now at those
final stages where testing was going
to start happening and people are going
to see this product in the marketplace.
So E T stands for electronic trigger.
So what, what, uh, the story
behind that is, uh, several years
ago, uh, we knew that, I mean, we
make anything that attaches to a
precision rifle except for triggers.
Mm.
So triggered was just a, you know, anybody
that pays attention to what we're doing
would see that as a natural next step.
But at the same time, you know, as
I mentioned earlier, when we make
something, we want it to be better
than anything else out there, or,
or unique and different in some way.
And when we were rocking on a trick, we
spent, we have a full trigger, design,
mechanical trigger, uh, but we didn't
believe that it wasn't necessarily.
Better somebody issues that, uh,
these high precision triggers have
is reliability, especially when
their feather lights trigger weights.
Right.
And, um, so we wanted something
that was more reliable.
We wanted to have something that would
somehow will lend itself to more accuracy.
And that's all we ended up
doing is realizing okay.
If we make it electromechanical,
what it will do is, uh, it
will be a faster lock time.
It will be more reliable
at a higher round count.
And then another thing that we
did and what we're starting with
is, um, the trigger won't move.
So we call it the zero stage
instead of a single or dual stage.
So it doesn't move, but you can
program the pressure at which the
trigger breaks, or this is interesting.
So you can say four ounces, six ounces,
12 ounces, whatever, uh, don't know
exactly how you're going to program it
yet, but I know it's going to be with,
you know, a, a sequence of trigger poles
or connecting your phone to the trigger.
Cause there will be a data port
at the bottom of that trigger.
Okay.
And, um, so this trigger should,
um, have a faster lock time.
It should be more reliable.
Yeah.
And you should have a higher
level of accuracy because it'd be.
Not nothing moving.
Cause when you, when you click that
trigger, I mean, if you look at any, uh,
dry fire and you, you look at what you're
doing, you are always moving something
because of the ghost click, right?
There's no click here.
The only click that happens is
the firing pin flying forward.
So, uh, you know, do we really
know what's going to happen here?
I can be very honest with you.
We, this, this could end
up being, not working.
Sure.
So w we're kind of making ourselves
vulnerable with this product development,
but I think that that is a very important
part of getting to a next level is
coming up with something that is risky
and something that might not work.
And this is one of those products there's
going to be, we're going to be looking
for beta testers later this year, where
people are going to be able to try this.
It's going to have a lot of
testing before this becomes.
Uh, product that anybody can buy
more than anything else that we do.
Um, but I'm I'm well, I wouldn't, wouldn't
be doing it if I didn't believe in it.
So,
oh, if somebody was interested
in becoming a beta tester,
they just go to your website.
Um, or do you already have a
cadre of people sort of in mind?
Well, we do have, well, we'll be
testing ourselves of course, heavily.
Then we do have a group of, uh, sponsored
shooters and brand ambassadors that are
very close to MDT that already have known
about this for a while that it's coming.
And, uh, they would be next on testing
this and that's in hunting environments.
That's in competition environments.
Um, and then after death, we would
probably open it up to more people.
And by that time we'll probably have
a way for people to sign up for it,
but it, this is not something that
somebody is going to have the hands
on in the next couple of months.
Uh, this is something that, um, is going
to be tested extremely thoroughly before.
Yeah, I find if you really want to
break something, give it to the general
public to test the people who knowable
firearms that are used to firearms
will know the happy path, the proper
way to take the product and use it.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
And, and we see that, I mean, you know,
10 years ago we would make something and,
uh, there would be a quality issue with it
and somebody would call in and say, okay,
well, Today, we mess them up and there
is a thousand people out there with that
issue and it's a logistical nightmare.
So it just makes us having to really
push hard on, I mean, not that we
wouldn't anyways, but it's vital that
what we make is extremely high quality.
We'll use the
term.
And what legendary prism is that?
Am I saying it
right?
Yeah.
You're saying it right?
Yeah.
Um, we, um, well, for many years
we use the term shoot better.
Um, that was our a w and we tried to
trademark that, but then there was a
trademark issue with us, or we knew a lot,
no longer use it, but we always want to
have something to basically believe in
rally around, like when we make a product.
Why do you make this product?
And we always would ask ourselves
the question, does it make
our customer should better?
And we actually still ask the question
internally, but there's another level
to it because we don't want it to just
be about the product we want to, uh,
be legendary in any way, shape and
form, not just in a firearms role.
Just be just as a company.
We portion them being legendary, uh,
with the products that we make, how
we deal with our customers, you know,
our customers, when they contact
us, they get a two hour response
time, which, um, you know, a lot of
companies struggle with doing that.
We try to be legendary with how we
deal with our employees, you know,
and that's why we do things well, it's
one of the reasons we also do the.
AML program with them last year, all our
employees were gifted, a precision rifle.
Um, there's just a, and, and not just
those things, but just, you know, the
flexibility at which they can work by us.
Um, the way we deal with our
suppliers, the way we deal with.
Just everybody.
Well,
having shot some of your matches, some
MDT matches that are put on there.
I can attest that your
staff genuinely are happy.
Your company culture is quite good.
You've got a very good group of
people working with you, which is
not exactly easy in today's climate.
When it's very difficult, it seems
to find passionate quality people
to be other employees or coworkers.
How do you, how do you find
these people and then how do you,
yeah, we put a lot of effort into hiring.
Uh, we, we ha we interview a fair
amount of people that never get hired.
So somebody could have all the
qualifications in the world, all
the education in the world and
be the smartest guy in the room.
Uh, that doesn't necessarily mean
that that person fits our culture.
So we put people through
tests, personality, tests,
uh, lots of different things.
And we look, if somebody fits our.
Um, if we don't believe that person
fits our culture, we've made some
very difficult decisions where we
knew somebody had wicked skills
and we won't hire that person.
Whereas we can go and find somebody
that may need some work on the skills
and all that, but they fit the culture.
Well, we'll hire that person and
we'll help them with the training
or whatever we need to do.
So our hiring process is very,
uh, robust and big and it becomes.
You know, as the years go by, we
become better and better at it.
Um, and when people are working
at MDT, we want to make sure
that they feel very free.
So, you know, we, years ago we
would, uh, if we had to let somebody
go, people would feel on edge.
Um, and you know, I didn't like that.
Uh, feeling for people.
So we implemented something where
literally our managers cannot fire
anybody unless that person has been
written up three times and those
write-ups can only happen once a month.
So basically nobody has to worry that
who am I going to get fired tomorrow?
It doesn't, it cannot, it cannot happen.
So like all those things, they're
all little things, but to get.
I do believe it makes
a great culture at MDT.
I think that's actually pretty huge.
I've heard some people say that
companies spend so much time worrying
about hiring when they should actually
be spending more time worrying about
firing or how they fire somebody.
Uh, because.
You know, so often doesn't matter what
it is, whether it's a relationship
that people are in or what working with
somebody is a working relationship,
whatever the relationship is,
there's going to be a feeling of, um,
rejection and upset and hard feelings
when it comes time to split paths.
But it doesn't necessarily
have to be that way.
And if you work at how you do that,
like a person can come on and like you
say, smartest person in the world, but
they just don't fit the company culture.
Tell you what, I actually know
other businesses that would love
your expertise and you'd probably
fit in well with their culture.
Let me help you transition over there.
Or, uh, yeah, I, I think, I think
that is a very big part of having a.
Transparent company and a successful one.
And when people know that process, so
they know it's not like they're going
to walk into work tomorrow and they
messed up and they're going to be gone.
No,
that's right.
We, we, we like to think that,
you know, it's kinda interesting
to say for a 10 year old company,
but we hire employees for.
We really want him to
stick around for life.
And so once somebody is at MIT
for three months, we will do
everything to keep that person there.
Uh, and if it does become apparent
that it's not the right person
for the job to try to put them
in a different position first.
And if that doesn't work, we'll, we'll
help a person find something else,
but it won't be a blind sight ever.
It will always be from a light
that we want to make sure that that
person is set up for success no
matter what they're going to do.
That's awesome.
So.
I guess you have a very personal
investment yourself with everybody
that you're working with there.
Yep.
Um, it is, uh, it's very important for.
To just have a really great workplace.
I don't want to, I'm generally very
blunt person is kind of say what I think
you're Dutch, um, I'm Canadian, but yes.
Yes I am.
Um, I, uh, I don't want to walk on
eggshells around people and they know
it, but I also think that with the
bluntness and just saying what I think
people don't have to really guess
it's not like, what does he think?
It's a day and all that, right?
There is some people that I know
that come working for us, or that are
intimidated by me because I am blunt.
And I say what I think, but then
after a while they realized that.
It's just, what you see is what you
get and they get comfortable with it.
And so some people it's immediate and
some people, it takes a little while,
but I, I think that also contributes
to the work environment that we have,
where we all just try to reach a goal
and we can just be open with each other.
Yeah.
Um,
you know, from my perspective, I've
always looked at myself more as a
entrepreneur, a dreamer, somebody
who's got ideas, he likes to invent or
create different things than a manager.
I can manage if I have to.
And like, you always like
to have people on board.
I look at them more like a family
who were working with me, working
family, and would love to have people
onboard with the company for life.
But you got to, the hard part is realizing
that that's not always for everybody.
I mean, the natural lifespan of
most people working for a company.
Isn't life
that's right.
And it's going down from what my
understanding is, you know, 30 years
ago people would work somewhere
for, you know, 30, 40 years.
Whereas today people are like,
ah, you should change every five
years or something like that.
Right.
And, uh, I don't, I just don't
want it to be that like that.
I also think that our environment is
challenging enough that people don't
get bored, which is a big part of it.
You know, you don't come in, you know,
10 years later and, and all it's all the
same old, that's never the case at MDT.
There's always something new going on.
We rewrap up.
Change and adapt and we create new brands
and new products and, and all of that.
Uh, so, uh, yeah, we've got to
keep challenging each other, keep
challenging ourself and that's
part of the equation as well.
I believe.
Well,
one thing I think is really valuable.
You can build a quality product,
which is, which is great.
It can work very well in and of itself.
Uh, but at the end user doesn't
know how to use a properly.
They're not going to reap
the benefits of that.
So you guys have invested a fair bit of
time and energy and money into, uh, your
social media and your media accounts and
training and showing people and testing
things out and showing transparently
how, how these things are used.
And then, you know, the third part
of all of that I think is when we're
talking about mental marksmanship
earlier, the, the Nike effect, people
can wear a pair of runners and they
have another pair of runners of
the got little Nike symbol on them.
And they can all of a sudden run faster
and jump higher because they believe in
what it is that they're actually wearing.
And I think you're kind
of hitting it from.
All aspects, you're
creating something quality.
You're showing people how to use
it in a proper way and through the
legendary prism, right through the
media, through the, um, presentation
and how you deal with your clients
and customers, you're creating that.
The mental aspect to it where people
know they've got something that's good.
Yeah, definitely.
I mean, when, I mean the brand,
that's kind of everything right to us.
So when people see something with
MDT on it, we, you know, we want them
to be able to trust it, of course.
And they do.
So that is something that we set out
to do a long time ago, uh, where.
You know, back then we used to come
up with a new product and people
were like, oh, okay, I'll try it.
Whereas today we can come up with
something new and people are like, okay.
Um, you know, the first
day we'll sell many, right?
Because people will trust in the brand.
And, um, you know, of course that
is, you know, from a business aspect.
That is, that is what we want.
Uh, but we do also at the same
time, want to make sure that,
uh, we don't put profits first.
Um, we, uh, you know, I mentioned
earlier, Laszlo was bought out
by a private equity firm in 2017.
I'm currently in the process
of buying them back out.
And the reason for it is we don't
want to be this corporate environment.
Uh, profit comes first because it simply
just flat out does not, no matter what
anybody says, when you put profits
first, your company is going down.
I truly believe that.
And, uh, you know, we've made some
choices and decisions in the past
that, that, um, that didn't help us.
And, uh, I think it was, you know, a
little bit too focused on being profitable
and, uh, that's not the company that.
So, uh, we're in the process of
buying them back out and we're
going to be, we want to be good
for you.
You know, I always look at it like,
you know, back in high school,
the kids who really want to be
popular and they never are, right.
The kids who are out there doing their
own thing, enjoying what they like to do,
people naturally gravitate towards them.
And they're the popular kids, but the
ones who are chasing the popularity
are always going to be behind it.
And in a sense, People who are chasing the
dollar who are looking at profit first.
That means you're not.
Going to actually be obtaining it.
You're always chasing it.
It's always in front of you.
And in that process, you're not
looking at what's really important
that kind of got you there.
It's like Rockefeller
that he was once asked.
You got so much money.
How much money is enough?
He says just $1 more.
Yeah.
That's like, we don't
want to be like that.
No, no, no, no.
But, but we, I still get a kick out
of it, you know, sometimes I'll, I'll
still deal with customers, uh, even
some support tickets here and there.
I, uh, you know, we get some really big
orders at NTT these days that, you know,
with what we do with the customers that
were larger customers that we have.
I think I still get more enjoyment
out of one guy that upgrades his rifle
and gets a smile on his face because
his accuracy improved or he just loves
the way it feels or the way it looks.
Some of our customers
never shoot the thing.
So you know that it's a, it's
a safe queen and we just get a
ton of enjoyment out of there.
We get letters from our customers.
Uh, sometimes they read off and
our Friday morning meetings, we
have a standup meeting with all
our staff on Friday mornings.
And, um, you know, sometimes one
of our customer support staff will
read out, read off a letter from a
customer, just how we are so happy
that he got a fast response and he
was taken care of and this and that.
And, and those are the things that
that's really give us just a lot of joy.
Well, if you're going to innovate,
you can't expect to make advancements
without slipping every once in a while.
You can't expect to run fast
without having to slow down and
kind of catch your breath a bed.
Mistakes do happen or there is a slip.
How do you guys deal with it?
Uh, yeah, we just gotta be very open about
it and these mistakes certainly do happen.
One that's fresh on my mind currently
is in 2000, just this January.
We have to do a price increase
and, uh, you know, it's
stuff to do price increases.
We generally don't.
But, you know, I think everybody
currently understands how much a
supply chain costs have gone up.
If you look at the aluminum index,
that's gone way up just in the last bit.
Then we use a lot of aluminum.
I think we're BC's largest
billet, aluminum user.
Really?
Yeah.
Basically I've been told that.
Um, but, uh, so what we did so great,
well, we have to put it on a website, you
know, that the price is going to go up.
So how do we do this?
Okay, well, how bout we put the price on a
website of what the new price is going to
be, but still allow people to buy at the
old price for November and December smart.
Hell.
Okay.
Well, that was a good idea.
So we put it on a website, so we crossed
out what the new price is going to
be and then show it the old price.
And next thing you know, there's a thread
on Reddit where it's like, MPTs showing
fake prices to make that product sound
like a sale, like, oh, I didn't see that
comment, but, but, but they were right.
That's exactly how it looked.
And, uh, some people are
extremely upset with us over that.
And, uh, you know, how do you
deal with that own up to it?
Like don't, you know, it's,
you know, and some people are
still not going to believe us.
And I, I think that the
people that those people don't
really know who we really are.
Uh, but the majority of people
that know us, like, you know,
yes, they realized they screwed
up and that they're fixing it.
So we fixed it right away.
But yeah.
It hurts, man.
It hurts.
And that's such a small thing.
And the fact that you take
that to heart like that.
Oh yeah, it's tough.
I mean, I'm willing that personally
answering people, uh, on the,
on the MTT account because
it's a, it, it eats me alive.
It's I just, I can't have it.
That's the life of a business owner.
I mean, it's not a nine to five job.
No, it's not.
You can joke around.
And so you can take off
when you ever, you want.
But you don't and you're
thinking about it.
And even when you're out doing
something else in the back of
your head that you're thinking.
The business and your coworkers
and yep.
Yeah.
And that, I mean, it's,
I mean, it's our life.
And my, I asked my wife, uh, when,
uh, when I started a process with
buying out at our private equity
partner, I said, you know, we're
basically gonna risk everything here.
And she says, well, MDT is our life.
Well, my wife is, you know, she
she's a shipping at MDT, so he
knows he's deep into it as well.
Uh, two of our kids are, are
involved as well in, in, uh,
on the manufacturing side.
Um, so it's, uh, yeah, MDT is our life
from the firearms industry.
In general, you guys have a
very smart business model.
Uh, firearms are heavily
regulated firearms, accessories
aren't necessarily as regular.
Uh, they got a lot more leeway
in there with how things are
moving forward in Canada with the
restrictions that are coming in place.
Does that give you heartburn at night?
Is that something that, uh, I sits
in the back of your head is a big,
well, well, yes and no.
So there is, um, there is a
divide there of my personal
opinion and my business opinion.
So from a business perspective, uh,
it does give me concern, but it gives
me longterm concern because, uh,
when you can take a few steps like
this in the wrong direction, in, in.
In this country, uh, it is, uh, concerning
and it will affect the business.
Long-term for sure.
On a personal level, you know, I
got these beautiful AR sitting in
my safe, uh, I like shooting them.
Um, I, you know, I, I just
think it's, um, Yeah, it is a
big question mark in my mind.
And, uh, even though MDT doesn't really
make much for the world of all the
rifles that were banned, I, I would,
I would flip this back in a heartbeat
because I think this is terrible for our.
I agree.
I've been asked like many others
to, um, to assist the courts as a
subject matter expert in regards to
some of these, uh, OIC challenges.
I noticed that there was,
I think, on the ninth, so.
Uh, what does it today?
The 10th.
So yesterday, yesterday, there was
an announcement that came out that
will most likely be contested.
But the, uh, uh, the courts had said that
the government has to, um, detail the
algorithm they use for the prohibitions.
And when you talk about the freedoms and
the, um, The, the threat against freedom.
I think that's the scariest
thing out of all of it.
Cause that was one of the things that
I brought up in my affidavits and
then cross essentially was how do they
define what a variant is and how do they
define what a modified version of is?
Having that framework of definition
would be very useful for them so
that they can clearly articulate why
something's going to be prohibited
or not as well as for the end user.
So they can say, ah, I
see why I can't get this.
I don't agree with the rules,
but these are the rules.
And, and it meets the rules.
The difficult part in all of that is
that question, mark and the reluctance.
It would seem for the federal
government to want to articulate
that, which leaves it open for them.
Expand on that.
And I think from a business owner
perspective, that might be one of the.
The scariest prospects.
If I were to put myself into your
shoes is what areas of expansion
could these things be moved into.
And like, when we talk about an
electronic trigger, which sounds
absolutely amazing, would that be
something that all of a sudden meets
either provincial regulatory restrictions
because they've, uh, last year, the year
before they brought a new restrictions
in BC anyways, on, uh, electronic
devices, when, um, when hunting.
I think basically in response to
a tracking point, you use their
stuff for stuff or stuff like that.
And, uh, and then from the federal
side, are they going to turn
around and say, well, that can,
like a paintball trigger can be
modified to fire more than one shot.
Yeah.
I'm sure these are things that
have gone through the back
of your head explaining what we do.
Um, you know, I think it's very
important that, uh, we are.
Very short, we're dealing with
ignorance on the other side.
And, uh, it gets a lot of people,
very frustrated and rightfully
so, but they also lash out
about it verbally and online.
And I think that that
is the wrong approach.
I think what we need to be doing is
like one of what I would love to be
able to do when people might not,
might not like this, but I would love
to be able to take somebody like I'm
just going to take it to an extreme
Justin Trudeau out to the range.
Let's go shooting and parents show.
Much fun you can have with this and
having be less intimidated by this.
And kind of really, if he were to really
understand the shooting community,
he would look at this different or
bill Blair or somebody like that, you
know, like, um, But we can do it at,
in a miniature version of think, uh,
you know, just somebody that we know,
maybe we have a re really left-wing
friend or something like that.
They come out through the range
shooting and, and, and show
him what a great time it is.
I have never, I've taken a lot
of people shooting that had never
shot before, and I've never taken
somebody that said I really hated it.
Never.
And I think that's just about anybody.
That does the same would
probably say the same thing.
So you can only really attribute
this to ignorance then case,
you know?
Yeah.
Yeah.
They say never a scribe malice to
what can be explained by ignorance.
Right.
Um, but I have a feeling that
Justin Trudeau probably likes
to shoot guns if given the
opportunity, if he's ever done it.
Um, bill Blair, I mean probably the same
thing and whoever is in his shoes now.
But I, I remember when I was, uh,
sitting in on just the local city
council here, and they're looking at
bringing in restrictions for firearms
businesses in the corporation at Delta.
Now the city of Delta and I had all of
my points set up and I'm get up and it's
my turn to talk and I'm going through it.
And finally, one of the guys
from the city, um, nice guy.
I, he says, Travis, Travis, hold on.
Do you have much more of this?
So yeah, I got a whole bunch.
He's like, okay, I'm going
to stop you right here.
I'm going to tell you,
I agree with everything.
Everything you say makes sense, but we're
not in the business of making sense.
We're in the business of doing what we
think our constituents want and that
sort of a local government level honesty.
I didn't know what to say.
I'm like, oh, okay.
I don't know how to combat that.
So from your perspective of saying,
Hey, I'd love to take out Justin, but
what we're doing is let's take it.
A family member is taking a friend.
I think that's a much more powerful
tool because my thinking is, is that the
current liberal government could care
less about firearms and banning them.
I think it's more about just creating
a position that they can force
their opposition into and say, oh,
look at how bad these guys are.
Cause they want to, they want to
have guns running around everywhere.
It's more just for political.
But if they knew that the general
public was like, we can see past
this w gun owners, non-gun owners,
we all want the same thing.
We want people to use them
responsibly and not illegal.
So by the social media stuff that
you're doing by the fun environment,
from the products you're putting out, I
think you're speaking to a wider range
group than just the diehard gun owners.
You're speaking to the people who
are like, Hey, that looks like
a lot of fun looking at that.
Yeah, exactly.
Those are that's and we
should all be doing that.
Well, you talked to a redhead and of
course in Canada, anyone listening in
Canada, there's another website out there.
It's been pretty popular for a lot of
time, which can have a lot of, uh, Uh,
opinionated people on there as well.
How do you deal with these?
Uh, when the internet haters come up?
Is that something that I've seen
most businesses have to deal with
it to some degree or another?
Yeah,
we don't have much of it.
Um, but of course it, it happens.
Um, we are.
We're just transparent and honest.
And we say just the way it
is, we don't hide stuff.
Um, we don't talk negatively.
Um, and that is that even inside
of our office, our customer support
staff get really weird phone calls
sometimes where, uh, we are accused
of something that makes no sense and
the tendency for any human being.
When the phone call is finished to say
something negative about that person.
Right.
And we don't, we don't do that at MDT,
even though it doesn't, it would never
go outside to the outside world anyway.
Right.
That is still somebody that, uh,
has been in contact with MDT.
We want them to have a positive
experience with what we're doing.
Uh, maybe he went through
a hard time himself.
Like there's so many reasons why.
Uh, something can be negative
and, uh, we just won't participate
in that side of things.
And, um, it's, it's, I don't,
it's kind of a business policy.
We don't really, we're not
really a strict rule company.
Like we don't have all these polishes
and rules, you gotta into your bike.
Cause I don't like that
kind of environment.
Right.
Um, but people are, people know
that we don't go talk a negative and
sometimes we do and we don't mean to.
Yeah.
And then we need to have an environment
where people can say to anybody.
Including to me, but Hey,
remember, we don't talk like that.
Right?
That's the environment that we want
because we're all gonna screw up, but
we should all make sure that we are
there to hold each other accountable.
You know, that's extremely refreshing
to hear and very, very positive.
To here, because particularly in
an industry that is constantly
under fire, pardon the pun, it can
be very easy for people to take a
bit more of a negative approach.
And I see a lot of people within
the industry taking, taking
that negativity on and having a
difficult time sorting through it.
And that's part of the reason why I
started the silver Corp podcast is to
meet other positive people within the
industry and to share their passion with.
That, that, that level of, uh, basically
the buck stops here, the negativity
comes and we're going to do everything
we can just to sort it out and put
positivity forward, I think is going
to serve the outdoors community, the
hunting, the fishing, the firearms.
Far more than any griping or
complaining or rallying Everwill
oh yeah, no, a hundred percent.
Yeah.
I'm many things have been positive,
positive, but really been impacted
by somebody complaining a lot.
No, that's right.
That's totally.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Or if you're going to complain,
have a solution and find a way to
end that in a positive way, I'm
really sick and tired of receiving.
Calls from customers and
they're complaining about ABC.
Well, maybe we take a
look, do they have a point?
Is their complaint?
Is there any validity to this?
And if so, rather than screening out
all of those customers, why don't we
just fix what they're complaining about?
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
You know, tell us a long time ago.
Uh, maybe it was BC talent, then Telus
came in and it used to be cell phones
are dropping calls all the time.
If you called up and you got mad at
him and he told them where the call was
and they would reimburse your call and
then reimburse a month of your bill.
And, but it was a process
and everyone knew it.
You'd had to call up, get mad,
ask to speak to a supervisor.
And I remember.
One time calling up and I'm talking
to the agent, I'm like, so do I
got to call in and get mad here?
And like, like everyone says,
I speak to a supervisor.
Can we just sort this out?
Right.
And the agent says, well, actually
funny, you mentioned that we've
just had a company-wide meeting.
And we are changing or getting rid of our
customers who call and complain like that.
If you approach us in a reasonable
fashion, we will bend over backwards to
help you in a reasonable way, because
they found they had built their own
company culture up to a point where
they've trained all of the customers
to be extremely negative to them.
In order to get what they want.
So I thought that was kind of an
interesting pivot that they made and
she just came straight out and told
me, he says, yeah, no, anybody's
going to call up and complain.
We're just going to say, thanks.
It was great.
Having you as a customer, go
check out one of our competitors.
I love that actually makes me think off.
This may be kind of a controversial
thing to some people, but, uh,
Starbucks versus Tim Horton's.
Okay.
I don't go to the important anymore.
I used to a lot, but when I go to the
Tim Horton's, I got a grumpy, I got
a grumpy person generally, or I just,
it's just kind of, you know, whatever,
or do your coffee and get out of here.
Right.
You go to Starbucks.
And, uh, you gotta, you get
somebody to this, very excited to
meet you and give you a coffee.
And I pay a lot of attention to
how businesses are, and I try to
poke at like, what, what kind of
training do you guys get done?
I think it's actually, my brother had
asked somebody at a Starbucks off, um,
you know, like, what did they tell you?
You train as you guys are so
different than Tim Horton's.
And they said, well, we
always make the situation.
Right.
And they have those kinds of things
and, and, uh, Yeah, I think that's,
that's the difference between a
positive and a negative experience.
Well, where did you learn this?
I mean, you were working in
greenhouses before, right?
Like I did work in
greenhouses a long time ago.
Yeah.
That's man.
I tell you, and now you moved your
way through and you're doing sales and
like, where did you learn how to run it?
The company of this size, I
guess.
Well, uh, first of all,
I haven't learnt yet.
I'm still learning.
Good answer.
Yeah.
Um, I, um, I don't really know how to
answer it well, because I don't, uh,
I don't have a high school diploma.
I don't have any schooling, really.
I have done different kinds of education.
Like for example, I've taken
apex courses, it's operator, you
know, associates for operations
management and those kinds of things.
Um, I, uh, I have failed a lot, so
I, you know, since I was, uh, I got
married at 19, so I got married young.
Uh, I've always been trying
different businesses.
So MDT wasn't the first time I got
involved with business, um, I, I have
learned much more from failure than.
The other side.
So, you know, with the success that we
have, there was a lot of painful failure.
Yeah.
And nothing, nothing really
teaches lessons like lumps.
Hey.
Yeah,
for sure.
You know, just even an example, even at a
company where I worked and they would pay
their suppliers, uh, at about 90 or 120
days and you, we would often deal with.
Our account being an old and
we needed to buy something
and it would hurt production.
And, uh, I never, ever wanted to be in an
environment like that with my own company.
So we pay weekly, you know, we just do
the entire payroll and every week and
people are happy to deal with us because.
Um, they know they're going to get paid
and it makes everything so much easier.
And again, you know, going back to
being a legendary company, it's,
it's, it's what we, we just look at
everything that we do and say, how
can we make this the best possible?
Um, there's, there's a lot
of trial and error in that.
And there's a lot of things we
don't have figured out yet, then
there's a long way to go yet.
But, uh, it's what makes the
path of what's next so much so
enjoyable for everybody at the
company, because we all know that.
The thing that's not working well
right now is only going to be a short
period of time because we will not,
we are relentless about legendary
ism.
I love it.
So what's next in the future?
What do you see as the
next big thing for MDT?
Um, we are.
You know, well, currently we have
eight designers and engineers
working on new products.
So new product development is always
going to be huge for what we do.
As a matter of fact, we have another
eight new hire scheduled for 2022
in the engineering departments.
Wow.
Um, we are, um, doing more in.
Different materials.
So, you know, we started out
doing a lot of aluminum machining.
Uh, then we started introducing polymers.
So, uh, we own our own
injection molding company.
It's got radical composites,
which is owned directly by MDT.
And that's kind of how we like to set
things up because radical, radical,
complex, it's going to go to the bank
and get a lease along with MDT cannot.
Right.
Um, just because of the space that.
Um, we also recently started a company
called audacity manufacturing and
that's actually doing woodworking.
So a laminate stock is going to be
it's semi released, already has people.
Some people have seen it out in the
wild here and they're being tested.
Uh, but that's going to be released here.
Uh, we are working hard on making
sure that we have multiple spectrums
that are getting attention.
So the MDT side is going to grow, uh,
with all those products, but we also
have our Orix brand, which, uh, is
more of an entry-level and that's going
to start seeing some new products.
So, you know, for example, uh, you know,
MDT there's released or is in the works
off, uh, officially releasing a new bi-pod
very soon, it's going to be about $200.
Bipod, uh, $200 us.
That is, yeah.
Um, and, or actual police, he saw I'm
similar, but more at an entry-level price
or a $200 at a good price price for that
kind of products that the MDT makes, but
orange needs to have something that's
more like in the hundred dollar range.
So those are the kind of
things that we, uh, work on.
Um, so we're very, very product focused.
Uh, we will expand while we're
working on a new building right now.
So, uh, on the MDT side where
we do our distribution and.
Uh, services, we're moving into a
30,000 square foot building in a couple
of months on the manufacturing side,
we're working on building a 110,000
square foot building also in cello back.
And we will probably also be looking
at expanding our us operations.
So right now it's just warehousing,
but we'll be doing while we do in
some manufacturing in the us already,
but Rick's looking to expand that.
Are you smart?
Well, when we talked earlier,
we're talking about breaking
this into two sections.
One where we get some background, we
learn all about what MDT is about.
And the second part, the second
section we get into some of them where
the technical aspects of how your
products work and why, and some of
the decision-making process behind it.
Before we jump into that
second part, which I'm going
to have available separately.
Um, is there anything else we
should be talking about on that?
Um, there's probably lots.
Um, you know, I can talk about MDT for.
Um,
where would the TV, so it wasn't there
a TV so that, uh, he just recently did.
Uh, yeah.
So this morning, actually,
just this morning, I talked to,
uh, rod Gattaca from the CCFR.
Um, so, um, there was a, it's a short
interview, some similar questions that's
going to air next week on wild TV.
I think when this podcast
airs that probably will.
Uh, it's so basically it
will be last week, last week.
Yeah.
But it will be available.
It will probably react a bunch
of times, but it is going to
be, it's a series for CCFR.
Um, so definitely tuned into that
because it's not that that show is not
about, you know, me coming on this show.
It's about all the good
that rod is doing there.
And, uh, in Dell, in the landscape that
we're working on in the firearms industry.
So, um, yeah.
Check that out.
Okay,
well, Martin, thank you very much for
coming on this silver Corp podcast.
It was an absolute blast talking with
you, and I'm really looking forward
to talking about the next section.
That
sounds good.
Thanks for having me.