The Silvercore Podcast with Travis Bader

Jay Jordan treats every child recovery case like the child is his own and will stop at nothing to find them. From daring cross border extractions to enlisting the Cypriot mafia, Jay is getting the job done where others are unable.

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What is The Silvercore Podcast with Travis Bader?

The Silvercore Podcast explores the mindset and skills that build capable people. Host Travis Bader speaks with hunters, adventurers, soldiers, athletes, craftsmen, and founders about competence, integrity, and the pursuit of mastery, in the wild and in daily life. Hit follow and step into conversations that sharpen your edge.

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Language: en-GB

I'm Travis Bader,
and this is the

Silvercore podcast.

Join me as I discuss
matters related to

hunting, fishing, and
outdoor pursuits with the

people in businesses that
comprise the community.

If you're a new to
Silvercore, be sure to

check out our website,
www.Silvercore.ca we can

learn more about courses,
services and products

that we offer as well
as how you can join the

silver Corp club, which
includes 10 million

in north America, wide
liability insurance to

ensure you are properly
covered during your

outdoor adventures.

Today, I'm joined
by a man who over

a long career has
acquired a very

specific set of skills.

The hunting we'll be
talking about in this

episode is that of
the two legged variety

and the world of
international child.

I'm joined by the owner
of Pegasus ops, which

locates and rescues,
missing and kidnapped

children worldwide.

Welcome to the
Silvercore podcast.

Jay Jordan

like this is not
an occupation for

the faint of heart.

I mean, w what is
your background and

how did you get into
this line of work?

I think in general, the
majority of things that

I've ever got into in
life, apart from the

military, I fell into it.

It's like the universe
has just brought

everything together
and pulled me in a

direction that I was
supposed to go to.

But I'm nine years old.

I knew I wanted to
join the military.

Um, I joined the
military at 16.

Um, when I was in the
military, I served

the Northern islands
cost of OCR, the rack

operational tours.

And there was always this
thing inside me that the

army was never enough.

So when I got out the
army being the boisterous

lab that I was, I
ended up, I ended up

taking all my savings
from the army and,

uh, and blowing them.

And when I went over to
Milan, stayed in Milan

for a good few months,
then I was living over

there, not the place
for an ex young soldier

to, uh, to hang around
considering they spend

millions teaching us
how to party and drink

like 10 and 10 euros
a drink over there.

It was crazy.

No kidding.

Uh, so, uh, so my savings
didn't last very long

anyway, but, um, I ended
up coming back to the

UK and, uh, when I was
back in the UK, Um,

I ended up living on
the streets for a bit.

It didn't phase me in
any way whatsoever.

I started
writing my book.

I had ambitions.

I always knew that I
wanted to go somewhere

and do something
bigger than what I

was doing anyway.

And, uh, when I was,
when I was on the

streets, this is like
a very long story.

Can then extend to a very
short period of time.

I used to check my emails
at the local library.

That's pretty much
the only place I

would hang out really.

Right.

I received an email
from one of the

lads in the army.

They, uh, they
got in touch.

Tell me that there's
a, contract's

going out in Iraq.

So I sent off an email.

I didn't even know
how to write a CV.

That's how bad it
was at the time.

I was 22 at the
time when I got out.

And you're living on the
streets for how long?

Yeah, six months I
was on the streets.

Yeah, wait, wait,
wait and see.

But I mean, you know,
I used to beg for

a couple of quid.

I'd go down to the
local Boozer, which

wasn't far from where
I was sleeping anyway.

And then I talked to all
the old veterans down

there and then, uh, and
then that's been that,

that, so it's been my
debts and it always made

them for a good night.

Yeah.

That's not too
bad, too bad.

We get the best
of what you

got.

Oh, you go.

Yeah.

But when it came to
the fact of, uh, of

sending this email
off, I literally, um,

commence my entire
army career into a

full line paragraph.

Um, asking if you're
going to jobs going

basically, uh, I didn't
think anything of it

didn't think anything
would come of it less

than a 24 hour period.

I had an email
in my inbox.

I'm saying that
certain person was

going to call me.

Um, and again, I still,
it still didn't register.

I didn't know
what the job was.

I didn't know what
I was applying for.

I just knew that
I'd emailed somebody

asking for a job in
Iraq, that's all in.

And then, uh, I ended
up, uh, going with my

best mate from school.

I was helping him
navigate through, uh, for

Birmingham city whilst
he was doing deliveries.

And this, this signal
was really, really bad.

So, uh, as we, as we, as
we're driving down the

motorway and we're just
about to come off into

some country roads where
the signal is reading

by the see that I've got
missed call, um, being

the young lad that I
was and being a little.

Um, child and the
mentality of a child,

it turned out that it
was, um, a previous

regimental Sergeant
major, the SAS, and

then that military
training kicks in and

my heart drops thinking
I've just got off.

I'm not in anymore, but
that was inside my head.

Oh no, no, you
definitely don't.

And that's, that's
the type of bloke, no

matter what age you
are, you will always

stand to attention.

He gets on the
phone to me.

He calls him by turns
around and says, uh,

I'll have a ticket
for you within a week.

This is what's
going to happen.

These people are going
to get in touch with you.

And when you get in
country, I'm going to

help you write a CV.

So I was like,
oh, it looks like.

Wow, that took me
on a wild adventure.

I really, um, I spent
eight years over in Iraq

as a private contractor.

Uh, and it was none of
sorry, five years in Iraq

as a private contractor.

Um, it was crazy.

The minute I landed at
the airport and the rock,

I, again, I still didn't
know what the job was.

I didn't know what I
was doing that I also

knew was that I was
going from one country

to another country.

And I know how to shoot.

That's literally, always
on my mind, I get picked

up at the airport.

I got picked up at the
airport and I'm the

operations manager for
the company pixels up.

They look at me because I
was 22 years old, skinny

little kid in their eyes
because the average.

Of, uh, of the guys that
were out there at the

time, it was anywhere
between 35 to 45.

We even had like 65,
75 year old Vietnam

vets out there.

And they really, these
guys are like, seriously,

it makes of Americans.

We had a lot of south
African, like the

old school, South
Africa mercenaries

that used to go into
countries in Africa

and Dakota, tars and
all this sort of stuff.

Big burly blokes around
me looking like a stick.

And they're like looking
at me thinking there's

going to be some.

So they throw
a body armor.

It made it for,
uh, a weapon.

I mean, AK 47 and
asked me if I knew

how to use it.

And I was like, yeah.

And it threw me
in a vehicle.

And then next thing
you know, we're driving

down the road, uh, brew
Irish from the airport

over to the green zone.

And there's a vehicle
in front and it's like

ramen cars off the road.

You've got vehicle
behind us, which is

coming up on the side
of us and it's doing all

the blocking drills to
protect this vehicle.

And that was probably
the first initial moment

where I realized I was
getting into something.

I had no clue
what it was about.

And it was like
those thoughts that

were inside my head.

It was a case of
what the fuck are you

got yourself into?

Didn't have a clue.

What was.

I didn't totally,
it was weird.

It really was.

And even to this day, I
mean, that was in 2004.

Um, even in 2016, me
and my mate took on a

contract down in Jackie,
in Afghanistan, and we

both got there and we
was both going, what are

we actually doing here?

Because we did exactly
the same thing, took

a job, not knowing
what it was, just

knowing where we're
going and that's it.

It was great.

It's, it's mental,
how it all worked out.

But I get taken over to,
uh, to the green zone

is around lunchtime.

We don't have our
ID cards issued or

anything like that.

DOD cards for the
U S places to go

into the USD Fox.

And, uh, then, uh, we
go down to a cafe called

the green zone cafe.

This is a tin
shack building.

That's all it is.

Uh, they sell pizzas,
stuff like that.

Um, plastic tables,
plastic chairs.

Standing there, we
will do a pizza and all

you hear was like free
frumps free mortars.

We launched into the end.

Everyone took them one
of these plastic tables.

And I remember clear
as day that the first

thought that came
through my head,

this is like within
an hour of actually

being in country now
to start this new job.

And the third, the
first thought that was

inside my head is why
are they underneath

plastic tables?

I couldn't, I couldn't
understand it.

The concept of them being
in the plastic tables

was more shocking to
me than the fact that

we got free mortars
in the sky heading

towards us right now,
the first one explodes.

And it's like
close enough.

The second one's
a lot closer.

And then the guy
that I was with was

a guy called Louis.

Really good mate of mine.

He was, he ended
up dying out there.

He did, unfortunately.

It turns around to me
and another guy that

had just flown and he
said, uh, it's either

going to hit us or it's
going to just go over us.

I was standing there
still thinking, what

are these guys on the
plastic tables and

jazz are, why are we
still standing there?

But because I was
because I was like 22

years old and these
guys were these guys.

Hawk, or you can see
that, you know, when

you get a look into
someone, you can see it.

And me as young, I
would still consider

myself a kid at that
age, to be honest with

a mentality, I had to
leave in the army and

looking at these guys.

I was like, I'm
not, I'm not moving.

I'm not, I'm not
doing anything.

I'm not going to
move until that bloat

tells me to move.

I'm not going to do
anything until that

book tells me to do.

And he just
couldn't believe it.

The third one hits,
it goes just over us.

And then everybody stands
up from underneath these

tables and chairs and
Bomba start the building.

The building is now
completely empty before

we went in there,
there was no tables

and chairs to sit.

Let me just goes over,
picks up a chair, sits

down and waits for his
pizza to be delivered.

And I was like, this is,
this is, this is unreal.

What's going on here.

But as I went through
the process of being

over there and I
spent five years.

And I excelled and
excelled for every

single stage that
I went through.

Um, you get to see how
that does change you

as a person, how that
grows you as a person,

because then you're the
one that's standing there

picking people up from
the airport and have they

come in and go through
the same experiences.

Yeah, I started
up doing that.

And then, uh, end of
2008, I left the road.

I went over to
west Africa.

Um, I did a bit of
maritime on the merchant

ships, which was pretty
terrible, um, in the

Gulf of Aden, uh,
against Somali pirates,

never had any contacts
myself on that for the

journalism themselves
were more horrendous

in the fact of the
conditions that you live

in living on the, in the
way that you're treated

by the actual officers
within those ships.

Uh, so it really
wasn't for me.

Yeah, it was a,
it was sporadic.

So they'd get shipped.

I'd go out, I'll go out
for two weeks and I come

back and then I might be
on a different contract

while the waiting around
for an of the ship.

So, and that was going
through the period of,

uh, end of 2008 through
to the beginning of 2010.

Really did that pay.

Yeah.

Oh, a hundred percent.

It pays the bills.

It was literally
free money.

You're going to
stand on the ship.

I mean, you can literally
do anything you want.

As long as you do your
duties on the ship.

The majority of the time
you end up working out a

wall shoe on duty anyway,
because you're still

on the bridge doing it.

And then you use the
bars and the railings

and stuff like that.

And then the food you're
just dropping weight

and getting ripped.

Anyway, it was mad
and he had to pay

good money for it.

So, uh, so I
didn't complain to.

Uh, but, um, I did some
contracts out in west

Africa, uh, in 2009 down
in Guinea-Bissau, uh,

which was recovering
a load of equipment

from an old soul from
mine, which was just

after a year after the
president presidential

assassination has
been for elections.

So it was a crazy time
because basically,

um, all of these
organizations were, they

were killing each other,
killing literal concerts

and things like this.

And the way they do it
is it's a brutal manner.

Then as you have been
to Africa and you

know, that cultures and
traditions, but yeah,

they've got no problems
cut someone's heart out

and eat it because they
think they're going to

get the strength from
that person, transfer

them to themselves.

It's worth on
that contract.

That, that was probably
one of the most

stressful contracts
I've ever came across.

Um, in the aspect of
how arduous it was.

Um, the difficult
as we had to move

in that equipment.

Um, and obviously
the threats that were

against us and our prime
frat that was against

us was the police,
um, really strange.

Does that sound
considering when we were

licensed and we was all
good in that country

and we was doing the
right thing, we had no

problems whatsoever.

The police surrounded
us every day.

And I remember there was
one day where, and again,

these stupid thoughts
go inside your head.

We had at least
10 of these, um,

police officers.

We've, AKA's all
circled around me.

And one of a guy
we both had Glocks

and that was it.

And they were all
pointing their weapons

at us demanding money.

And in the course of
those two months, we

paid out a lot of money
to in bribes just to

stay alive so we can
actually get that

equipment out of there.

But when I was standing
in the middle of

that circle, it was
literally it's those

stupid faults that
are inside your head.

And I was thinking.

I'm going to do is
just dive on the floor

because it's going
to be a comical scene

because they will

continuously
through that entire,

I guess in hindsight,
when you look at that,

they, they wouldn't
want to slaughter the

golden goose there.

If you guys are shelling
out, that kind of

coin to in bribes,
it's just a show.

But when you're in the,
in the thick of it,

I mean, you looking
down the business end

of a firearm, you do
what you gotta do.

Yeah.

Oh.

Um, it turned out,
I think it was about

six figures that they
ended up paying out

in, in broad contract.

And then we got the
stuff out of there and

that's the equipment
that we're going out.

And that was
worth millions.

Like.

Well, then from that
end of 2009, I got a

hold of a good contract.

Time enough.

Then I went
out to Afghan.

I spent 11 years
in Afghanistan.

I only got out of
there last year.

I was all over that
country and I was

on all sorts of
different projects.

It was, it was
mental, um, great

money at the start.

I mean, it's phased out,
but in the last, last

few years, really, um,
but it was something

that I was doing good.

It was what I wanted,
what I was doing in

Iraq that was starting
to die out in Iraq,

driving around in
three vehicle convoys,

actually doing your job
as close protection,

protecting those that
need protecting whether

that be NGOs or military
officials or whatever.

Um, cause it was
dying out in Iraq.

I was getting bored,
but going back to

Afghanistan, I was
able to do that again.

Then in Helmand province
and I have more vehicles,

I was able to train my
own team again and we was

able to go all over those
dangerous areas again.

Um, so I enjoyed
the working in it.

It really lit that
fire inside me.

It was just fun.

There's loads of
little jobs I've

done in between.

Um, I, in the printer,
I used to provide

protection for him
when he was going

through the cold
phase, which was mega.

Um, I got paid to
go to the Maldives

and Sage Hills.

Um, and there was also,
uh, I got into Molly

just after the coup in
Marley Marley when the

toolbox took over the
north, um, that was

basically post protection
on a, um, the Chinese

news network CCTV.

So, so that was a
good contract as well.

But overall majority
of my time has been,

uh, Afghanistan

in that industry.

So you start by doing,
uh, asset recovery

vehicles and, and
equipment, and you say,

Hey, this is pretty good.

Uh, let's, let's look at.

Human recovery.

See if we can start
recovering children, like

how did that leap start?

Because it's sort
of a niche industry.

100%.

It is.

Yeah.

Without a doubt.

So I started the prime
focus of everything

I've done is close
with texts and says

looking after people.

And there's always been
that, that, that mission

element of looking after
people in itself, um,

there's been contracts
where I've done during

the recovery of assets
and everything like that.

In 2012, end of 2012.

Um, I was in Afghanistan
and I received an

injury hearing injury.

My left ear went, um, my
age or withdrew back into

my elk and had nothing
on it from like that.

So it was, it was
hilarious the way that

it happened as bad as it
was, because literally I

do not want this or wish
this upon anyone because

it is horrendous to feel
this it's like noises

go inside your head and
it's all jumbled up.

It's just crazy.

Um, I could sit
there by myself,

have a no problems
with the slightest

noise comes into that
room and that's it.

My head's a mess.

It's like, it's
just so confusing.

What's going on.

But really the
company has seriously.

If you lose your hearing
in any way whatsoever, I

might say if it was full
blast, I could watch the

kids come into the room
and talk at the same

time as that spot go to
a bar, the ambient noise

in a bar would literally
just destroy me.

I'll be there for a
headache of in an hour

and I'll have to leave.

It's horrible.

And you still suffer
from that now.

No six month temporary
hearing loss eventually

came back out.

So I was quite lucky
in the aspect of it.

Um, well the company
had to send me home

and like I said before,
this is where the

universe comes into it.

This is where the
universe has always

pulled me into the right
directions to put me

into the right place
at the right time.

Um, the last contract
where I got this injury

that I was working on,
I was working with a guy

that was, um, originally
he grew up in Lebanon is

British, but he grew up
in Lebanon with his dad

and my dad always best
mates on Lebanon and

stuff like this spent
most of his life out

that doesn't live there
anymore at that time.

So I met him on
that last contract,

then I got injured.

And then whilst I'm
waiting to go home.

The guy that I knew.

Um, and to this day, I
still do not remember how

I met him, but I'd been
talking to him for years.

And he was always asked
me for a point of contact

wherever he was someone
that could go in and

help him to do what he
wanted to do, whether

that be advice or whether
that be a physical

operation, never asked
any questions, gave him a

name, gave him a contact
D and then that was, it

didn't have any interest
in what he was doing.

All's I knew that he was
in charge of coverage

at the same time that I
was waiting to go home.

He gets in touch and
asked me if I can go

over to Lebanon to help
him out on this job.

Um, didn't have a clue
what the job was again.

But I was like, well,
I seem to be in a

position where I'm just
going home and I've got

nothing to do right now.

So yeah.

So, uh, so we'll go home.

He meets it with me
and, uh, I was living

in Cyprus at the time.

It makes a mean Cyprus.

Uh, we have a chat
about what it is.

Turns out that I'm a
ruined child were being

held against their will
father kidnapped the

child from Australia.

And, um, Basically,
he was connected

to Hezbollah.

The mother and child
were in the Muslim

controlled town,
which is a Hezbollah

controlled town.

And, uh, and there was
armed personnel all

around them all the time.

And he couldn't
figure out how to

get out of there.

So I flew over with
him and, uh, long story

short, because I'm not
going to go into too

many details about this
because I do have a

book out which tells
you all of the details.

Um, I go over there,
um, within the first

seven days of me being
over there, it led to

us being blocked in by
vehicle guys, jumping

out with weapons,
Ks, and 40 sevens.

Um, I was getting around
that vehicle and being

chased out of town.

Um, we had, um,
tales on us when we

was down in Tripoli.

Um, it was, it
was just mad.

And I was thinking
to myself, well,

is this work?

What is going on here?

Well, I gave
him my opinion.

I built up an idea
of an operation, um,

on knew what he had
to do to be able to

get them out of that.

I didn't know
his capabilities.

I didn't know what
assets he had.

It didn't know what
the company's assets

that he had that was
working with advice,

which I gave to him.

And after that seven
days, then I left

and I went back home.

My mind is set.

I'm going to get healed.

I'm going to go
back to Afghanistan,

but no worries.

I'm happy with what
I'm doing anyway.

It was about maybe
about two weeks,

three weeks later,
something like this.

He gives me a call, tells
me that it's quit the

case, which bothered.

Like really bothered
me and quit working

on that case quit.

So he'd been working on
that case maybe about

six months already.

Okay.

I didn't realize how much
money had been put into

this, but afterwards I
found out that there was

about 140 to 160 grand or
something like that that

was put into this case.

So he decided to quit.

And then the owner of
his company and asked me

if I would take on the
case and actually go over

there to complete it.

And I'm sitting there
thinking, Ooh, I don't

know nothing about the
child recovery industry.

I don't know nothing
about, um, infiltrate,

you know, actual tray.

I mean, I know stuff
in the military,

but on the private
sector side of it.

Um, but I've always
had the attitude, which

is you can do anything
you want as long as

you don't get caught.

Uh, so, so it
was constantly

there in my head.

You could probably
do this if you

find the right way.

Um, I sat down with
the misses and we had

conversations with the
two days later, uh, I was

going back to Afghanistan
was solid, stable,

financially stable.

Everything's good.

I'm enjoying my job.

Do I, do I do
something here?

And the question that
kept coming up was

who else is going
to go over that?

Who else is actually
going to go and get

in that mode or that
they've been abandoned

now by what four of
us at the time, this

is a professional
company because I've

been working for
professional companies.

I would expect that
this company that's

dealing with children
and this, these sort

of situations to be a
professional company.

Right.

And, uh, and it, it
really dug deep and

every single time that
question came up, who

else is going to do it?

Who else is
going to do it?

Um, and I would say
that the majority of

decisions in my life
has always been, uh,

developed through,
fuck it, moments.

It's that, it's that
moment when you sit

in there and you can't
make a decision on

anything, or when you
write that email and

you write that email
to someone and you're

like, does that sound a
little bit too abrupt?

And it's like, fuck
it, press that book.

And that's what it was.

Yeah.

That's what it is.

So the decision was made
like that and it was

like, no, I can't, I
cannot let them sit there

thinking that everyone's
given up on them.

So I did, I went over.

I get over there.

Um, I, again, learning
on the job, you

gotta remember this.

Isn't my forte, this
isn't what I do.

Right.

I was there.

I was learning on
the job, right?

What do I need
to do here?

I've got to figure this
out, out, everything I've

learned in the past, when
the contracting world,

the private military
world, the, the military

itself, you're always
learning on the job no

matter what, you always
adapting to situations.

I mean, we've all, we all
know the model, right?

So that's literally
what I was doing for

that entire operation.

So it was a case of like,
right, I need to do this

and I need to do this
and I need to do this.

How do I do this?

Um, I need these
people, these people,

these people, how
do I get these

people and all this?

And, uh, it just started
working out like that

one step at a time,
one step at a time.

It took me a good
few months to do.

Power of elimination.

I eliminated ideas.

I rent eventually
realized when I

was in Lebanon.

The last major attempt
I had was, uh, was a

meet and there was a run
to me and not expected

in any way whatsoever.

I was trying to.

To befriend the captain
of a boat, um, asking

them how it could get
packaged out of the

country without anybody
knowing about it.

And to my knowledge, did
I know that he took me

into an office, which
I thought was a boating

office where I'd have
to bluff my way out

of there turned out
to be Lebanese mafia.

They, uh, they
strip searched me.

They took all my
electronic devices.

And then I ended up
standing in front of

the Lebanese mafia in my
underwear saying, I need

you to get a practice
out of this country.

It was just weird.

It was

just so weird.

It was the real Italia.

The me.

This is a Hezbollah
controlled area

of Lebanon wasn't

no.

Yeah, no.

So it's at this
point where you've

got certain areas
which are controlled

and protected by the
molars and Hezbollah

themselves very divided.

So this was closer
towards Christian areas,

but this was a Muslim,
um, um, Harbor area.

Gotcha.

Um, fishermen's areas.

So it's probably mixed
anyway, but this guy

is in there and the
meeting went fine.

The meeting was fantastic
apart from the fact

that I'm standing
there in my underwear,

complete swap, but he
offered me a price.

I said, I'll,
I'll mull over it.

And I'll think about it.

The price was
extortionate.

There's no way that
we could afford it.

And, uh, and that's
another thing.

When I came onto the
case, that's when I

realized how little
money they had left.

Out of that
140, 160 grand.

And that was,
that was actually

originally put into it.

So I was quite shocked
about that as well.

So I'm on a minimal
budget as well, to

try to fix this.

I was looking for a
small boat to be able to

sneak out and then meet.

And another boat.

Those plans were falling
through every plan that

I was coming up with
was falling through

on the Lebanese side.

So sitting, I was
thinking to myself, I

need to regroup here.

This, this is not going
to work on this side.

I have to figure
something out on

a different angle.

And, um, I went down
to the beach and I was

with the grandfather
of the kid at the time.

And the grandfather
is, uh, is one of these

blokes who likes to tour
and he's done everything.

I'm not saying
anything bad about him.

He was very annoying
because he just kept

talking to me and talking
to her and he was telling

me how to do my job.

And I was just like,
that wouldn't work.

That's like
literally suicidal.

You're asking me to get
like, um, you know, the

kids, no, Boats that
you get at the beach

and then you float
the kids around one

of them, I'll be fine.

We can hook up
some batteries.

And I was just like,
you're going to die.

You go down this road
and you're going to die.

But the more that you
spoke to me and as

annoying as it was on
all of the ideas, cause

it was constant pressure
on me, 24 hours a day,

and I'm still trying
to figure stuff out.

And it was, it was
not stressful thing

I've ever done.

Um, the more he spoke
to me, the more I was

like, hold on, I've got
a better way to do that.

And that's
when I decided.

I need to get about
the Cyprus Cyprus.

I know, I know
everything there is

to know about Cypress.

I know where to find the
right people to do the

right job all the time.

I did that for a long
time at this point.

Um, so I was like,
yeah, this is what

I'm going to do.

I booked over the
Cyprus and that's

when I started hanging
around the marina.

Um, long story
short on this.

This is where, um, I
ended up connecting

with the Cypriot mafia.

The Cypriot mafia helped
me to get a boat within

rigged up that boat,
which took another week.

Um, basically building
steel frames on it,

um, fish finders.

So we could have a cover
story on the other side

as efficient vessel.

The story was weak as
fuck the cover story

to go over there on
this boat, it was

horrendous, but he works.

So we make that all
the boat that cost us

a fair bit of money
anyway, which was extra

money that the client
had to pay for it.

This was a solid plan.

I brought in a neck,
I'm a Royal Marine

commander as a Coxen.

And, uh, and, and this
bloke, he was like one

of the most amazing
blokes I've ever met

because he was nuts.

Um, when I say nuts,
I'm talking modern

Murdoch scale, um, from
the 18, when he's like,

oh my God, it was boy.

He was, he was solid
at the same time.

And it was like, he
was devoted, dedicated

100% straight down
line that's okay.

He's just crazy
at the same time.

And I thought perfect
bloke to take this boat,

which I'd hope makes
it over 120 nautical

miles of sea to get
to another country

with the cover story.

That he did it as a
drunken bet that he

couldn't make it.

I swear to God,
that was it.

That's all.

It was, he was
drunk in a bar.

Someone bet that he
couldn't make it to

Lebanon and he had
to go to Lebanon.

And that's why he did it.

Um, by the time the boat
got there, we put a steel

frame on some fiberglass
holes for starters.

Um, that wasn't good
because obviously it

starts to shake loose and
the fiberglass starts the

breakaway and wherever.

So we have problems with
that and we have to get

repairs on that on there.

As soon as we got
down on that side, the

repairs were obviously
bastardized as best

as possible, but there
wasn't a solid, um,

and his job was to
control the water side.

And basically he
had to do all of the

records on the water.

So he was looking for
coast guard vessels

that could possibly
hinder our extraction.

Um, he was looking for
any military vessels.

He was looking for
any fin that could

possibly get in
our way whatsoever.

And the most critical
part was that when I'd

find a place on the
coast, I can get to,

from my pickup point,
I need him to check

if he can pick me up
from that location.

And that was the only
communication that we

had between each of
them until the very

day of the operation.

It all worked out.

There was lots of
things that went wrong,

but there was lots of
things that went wrong.

Um, I did the land
side of the operation,

which led me down so
many different roads.

Um, but overall, we ended
up in a situation where

I picked up the mother.

Um, we ended up
in a safe house.

I'm not going to go
into the details of

why, because you can
get the book for this.

Cause I'm giving
a lot away.

Right.

Then we ended up in a
safe house, which was

technically the longest
night of my life.

Um, and then from there
we moved onto the boat.

Um, and then we got
on that boat and I

wanted to, one of the
hardest parts I fought,

I would come across.

We get that boat and
I'm going to go across.

We've just proven
it comes across the

water, but it's broken.

What are we going
to do to get back

considering there's
more people on the boat.

And again, it was the
Cypriot mafia that came

to the rescue, which
is strange because

people are shocked.

When I tell you
that these organized

crime elements, these
underground networks

work alongside me.

They work better for
me than what the actual

forum is do, because they
actually care about the.

And we know who those
organizations are

and they're the ones
that we go after.

But when it comes to
like cigarette smugglers

or your different types
of organized crime and

all that, that they're,
they're big on kids.

That really aren't,
the Cypress is very

family-orientated
as well.

So that worked massively
and they drove a

boat out into the
middle of the meds.

So they stayed in
the middle of the

Mediterranean on
the secret side of

international waters.

We got to that point.

And then they picked
us up from that, took

us back to Cyprus.

And then we got the
kid in the mobile home.

That was my first
introduction to something

that I've never done in
my entire life before.

And I was like, Ooh,
this is all of this.

This is crazy.

So the book's called
angel in the shadows.

And if people want
to get that book,

he's at a, just
through your website.

Yeah.

So, um, we've got
it going through the

publishers website.

We've got it on
amazon.co.uk.

And currently we're
looking at again on

Amazon in America.

So there'll
be amazon.com.

It's not there yet.

Um, the other night we
sold two nights ago.

Now we sold out on
hardback copies and

currently this paperback
coffee, coffee is a it's

available for pre-orders.

So I'm still waiting
on the date for that

to actually come out,
but we can get it

on pre-orders now.

Um, we can put the links
up as well, and I want

to get there on there.

So there's loads,
loads of wasted.

So how much of this job
is client management and

strategy planning, the
operation planning the

recovery, as opposed to
the, the actual recovery.

I would say that the
recovery side of things

is probably one of
the easiest parts of

the entire operation,
managing clients.

It's, it's a, it's
a massive thing.

Um, we have to do
everything that we can to

continuously keep on top
of them because we have

to teach them and train
them on certain things.

We have to be able
to, um, control them

mentally so they can
actually stay calm in

the right situations.

We have to be able to
teach them to, uh, about

operational security
for starters, because

they always want to
pass news by home.

Things like time
management is key to

success because the
minute that someone

starts letting things
slip and there's

information going across
electronic communications

on, on what we are doing
and how we're going

to go about it, then
the mission is over.

It's it's, it's not
vulnerable anymore.

Um, the planet of
the operation is.

All the time, every
single minute, every

single day, you're
thinking of something

you're testing.

Um, we plan things into
the details because

obviously the majority
of stuff we do is very

covert and the only time.

And if anyone knows
that we've been anywhere

near those sort of
areas is at the time

of the operation.

You got to have your
cover stories in place.

You've got to build
your cover stories

to make sure that
it depends on what

situation you were about
to get yourself into.

You have to step up and
take the risks to get

the information you need.

Um, as an example, some
of the operations I've

done, um, I've got myself
arrested or detained on

purpose on a border of
two countries purposely

to find out what assets
that they had now to do

that without anything
coming back on me, I

had to set up a cover
story for two weeks and

then that cover story
had to be solid and

obviously nothing true
in any way whatsoever

about why are you there?

And then I'd actually
go in, commit to

this, get myself
detained on the border.

They would then hold
me higher to look

into all of the laws,
the regulations,

what can they do?

How can this go?

What should I expect?

Things like this.

I got detained.

They questioned
me for an hour.

They checked out
my cover story.

That question
then before.

Information about them
entire operation on the

border for the whole of
the country, because they

gave me free range to
go to the smoking area.

So I stand that the
smoking area shown

the soldiers because
soldiers are soldiers

and they love to talk
about war stories.

I would show them
pictures of war, talk

to them about Iraq,
things like this.

They would try to buy my
phone, stuff like that.

And then bit by bit,
you build that trust

in a very short
period of time and get

all the information
that you need.

So there's things like
that, that you've done.

And then, uh, as an
example, there's the

dangerous risks that the
really dangerous ones,

um, the last operation
I was working on, for

example, for seven days,
nobody knew where I was.

That was my own choice
because I didn't want

to give out anything
electronically

and announce
where I was going.

So I was going into an
area that is monitored

massively for commons.

Um, and at the same time
as that, I needed to

work with underground
networks and figure out

a way to get out of a
certain country across

the border illegally.

Or should I say,
or should I say

alternatively?

Um, I like that.

So I was, uh, I was on
the, I was on this board

and I drove for two
days, um, solid, straight

one-off as a miles when
I got into this location.

I got picked up from
a certain area, taken

out of my car, put
into another cloud,

driven for an hour.

No idea what
was going on.

Then I got taken out
of that car, all of my

electronics, all of my
equipment, everything

that I had on me, it was
put out or taken out off

me, put into another car.

I was on driven for
another hour, I guess,

about three o'clock
in the morning.

And we ended up
pulling up into this

clearing in the middle
of no man's land

between two countries.

And this is a clear
when you purposely

designed for smuggling
on this board are in

no man's land and I've
got, I'm surrounded by

people just silhouettes
all around me.

And I've got one guy
standing in front of

me and he's just gazing
how much he can trust me

for what the operation
is that I wanted to do.

And if we had the
money and it was

chaotic because that
day there that's when

I was like, uh, yeah,
you boys might want to

start tracking me now.

I might be getting
into something here.

So once I did that,
I'll get back.

And then, uh,
Things started to

work swimmingly.

So that in itself is a
situation where I have

to discipline if they
didn't trust me on that

day, that's it I'm gone.

Um, I always describe
it as the fact that

whenever I was working
away contracts and

whenever I was in the
military, the message

was always waiting
for that phone call to

tell her button news.

Now she doesn't wait
for that phone call.

She waits for the
day that she doesn't

hear anything.

It's literally, once
she knows we've got ways

of communicating, but
when she doesn't hear

anything for a period
of time, that's when

she knows it's done.

And there's no
fundamental to that.

That's how that's
how dangerous it is.

And they're the risks
that we take to go

to those extra, extra
elements of being able to

make sure we do it, which
you won't find them.

Many of the companies
that are out there,

unfortunately.

She thinks I'm not,
she supports me 100%.

She supports me all
of the way she's

been through, been
through this since

day one with me.

And obviously she's
been through my contract

in days out in Iraq
and Afghanistan.

Um, she knows, she knows
what I'm capable of.

She knows how I am
and how passionate

I am about this.

Um, because of the thing
that I will always will

always remind me of
what I'm doing, this

is that question who
else is going to do it?

Every case that I
take on, I consider

it as my own children.

What would I do if it
was my own children

and because of my
experiences and because

of the life path that
I've taken, um, I go to

those extreme elements
every single time.

If you take a family
that's just gone

for a normal life.

They have no idea
what they're capable

of to be able to get
these children back.

And right, the phone call
to the police will always

lead into disappointment.

If they've gone and
they've got no lead

once they lose that last
lead, then that's it.

It's done.

And the majority of
the time that leads

to a chain of phone
calls from the police,

from one district
to another district

or another district.

And if it's international
it's to another country

and through their
districts, and it's a

chain of phone calls
I've been waiting for,

but no one is physically
looking and that's,

what's always bothered
me because if you start

physically looking,
I've always said, if you

look for something, you
always going to find it.

No matter what, if you
look into a relationship,

you're looking for a
problem, you're going

to find a problem.

If you're looking into
your finances and you

think that they're
solid and you look

into it, you're going
to find a problem.

There's always, you
will always find the

source of that problem.

If you look, and
that's what I've

always been solid for.

So, I mean, my boy, he
understands what I do.

Um, I mean, as a
teenage boy, so you

can imagine why he
thinks my daughter,

hasn't got a clue.

What I do see literally
thinks I worked in an

airport because one,
she sees me go on, go

to an airport once he
picks me up and she picks

me up from an airport

and she's, uh, she
definitely keeps my

head start as well.

Well, the one you're
talking about six

months in $140,000 or
so that the, uh, the

client was in for it.

And, and buddy says,
that's it, I'm out.

I quit.

And you come on board.

Like, that's, that's
a lot of money that

a lot of people just
don't have kicking

around and you've taken
a very unique approach

to a child recovery.

And your, from what
I understand, you're

looking at crowdsourcing
international

child recovery.

That's I haven't heard of
that being done before.

Is this the first time
have you heard of this?

It hasn't been
done before.

Um, I, it is very
difficult to get

them without a doubt.

And what I can tell you
is that it works when

we get the donations
and why, so working

for that company and
seeing how much money

comes from that company
actually took the money

that actually went
on to the operations.

No, Was the amount of
money that they paid.

The majority of that
money went into the owner

of that company's pocket.

So these companies,
there's a lot of

companies that are out
there and there's even

more popping up now.

And what I've found is
that I slightly working

for that company, I till
kind of case, um, it

was a parent abduction.

Um, the girl reached
that age where she could

decide where she wanted
to live, which may not

behave the documents,
all of the court

documents for custody.

All of that became
non-employed because now

the girl has a decision
under herself and she

has a legal rights to
make her own decision.

So I went back to the
owner of the company

and I sold the owner of
the company of the case,

going to be completed
for these reasons.

And this is
what's happened.

And then I witnessed
him have a meeting

with that client
and he took a number

30,000 off that client.

And then didn't tell
that client for a couple

of months that they
couldn't do the case.

I saw that happen.

And I was like, what
is going on here?

Obviously having
discussions and all that

sort of stuff, he said,
he's going to work on it.

I knew that he wasn't
going to work on it.

I ended up bailing
from that company.

So it started freelancing
when I started

freelancing, what I
realized, because I

started speaking to a
lot of companies are in

the industry and, uh, and
all of these companies

aren't figured out.

Who they were from
working for that

original company, because
they all connected

in some sort of way.

And it's a weird, um,
and I'm going to use

the reference of tiger
king scenario because

I've been watching
tiger king and again,

in the aspects of how
fucked up everything

is, um, the company I
was working for, all

of these companies,
they hate each other.

There's another company
that's out there that

was massively against
every single person and

his marketing scheme
is to basically slander

everybody else off.

Um, another company when
I was in Lebanon, which

I found out while I was
in Lebanon, was trying

to go against everything
that I was doing and

trying to fuck up the
operation because he

didn't get the case.

So he's not in it for
the kids and he didn't

get the money out of it.

And because he didn't get
the money, he wanted to

destroy the operation,
then turn around and say

that this company that I
was actually working for.

Was it bad company.

And that's the sort of
mentality state dealing

with these people.

They charge anywhere
between 50 to

$150,000 or pounds
or euros, depending

on where you from.

They sell you the world.

They sell themselves
as SF companies,

special forces,
units, and all that.

None of them, not one
of them has ever been

in special forces.

Not one of them has
ever done very long

in the military.

Not not one of them
has ever been in combat

operations overseas.

Not one of them.

I know this from that
history because I got to

know them over the years,
they sell you the world.

We can do this.

We can do that.

You're vulnerable
parents.

You've just lost
your children.

You're willing to do
anything it takes to

get your children back.

Right.

I need this money.

I can't work
without this money.

You need to pay this much
up front or whatever.

And then basically you
will go and then re

mortgage your house
or sell your house,

sell all the assets
that you've got.

You'll take out
massive loans.

Whether that'd be from
family, whether that'd

be from banks, you will
do everything you can to

raise that cash, thinking
that you're going to get

your kid back, having
that cash over, you won't

even get a photograph.

You won't even
get a report.

You won't get any, you
literally get phone

calls or emails that
I can't tell you right

now, because we work
on the operation,

blah, blah, blah.

And then at the end of
it, they'll be like,

what would utilize
all of the money.

Now either pay us
more money or do the

operations over there.

You see the pattern
of what happened.

That's what happened
in Lebanon when

the guy quit.

So all of that combined
together made me

realize how screwed
up this industry is.

It's not professional.

That don't have
professional units that

are not professional
soldiers and the ripping

people off left, right.

And center.

And it bothered me
so fucking much.

It's about two,
five and 50.

And I came up with
the concepts and the

concept, then I can't
stand this anymore.

Seeing this happening,
they're taking cases on,

I'm not getting cases.

And the reason I wanted
to take these cases on

was to make sure that
they get a professional

service cheapest.

Fuck, because I know for
a fact, if you spend,

if you tell me that it's
going to cost 50 grand,

I've done cases before,
where I've lived on the

streets for two weeks,
I've done cases where

I've lived in a car and
I'm upset a few of the

locals by washing myself
and one of their mountain

front ends whilst
they're drunk and drive.

So you can imagine what
I was doing that cost

me a couple of grants.

Um, I say that the
average case that we

call we charge for now
or not charge for the

average cost of the
case that we take on

now is about 30,000.

Because now we
go power assets.

Now we push out
professional units,

we push out backup
systems and all this

sort of stuff to
a certain extent.

We're not at the
stage where we can go

as far as I want to,
but we are at a stage

where we can monitor
each other at least.

But, um, I digress.

They, uh, they
started that.

I decided that I wanted
to set it up and do

everything I can to
raise money for these

families, um, and
provide the cheapest

possible service.

If I can raise 10 grand
and they pay five brands,

then obviously we're
in a better situation

than anybody else.

Plus, I'm going to be
able to do what I have

to do with a very cheap
service as well, but they

get the most professional
service out there.

And, uh, the concept was
there for a long time.

In 2017, April the 27th,
2017, a young girl was

kidnapped from Cyprus.

I was in Afghanistan at.

Because what
happened before?

Um, before last year I
would be in Afghanistan

or Iraq and then I'd
get a case and then I'll

come home and do that
case whilst I'm on leave.

And then I'll go back
to Afghanistan or Iraq.

And in the aspect of
doing that, what I've

found is that cases
will come in, but

then they'd have to
wait for a long time

before I can get home.

Um, I also found that I
wasn't spending any time.

My family are,
which is why last

year that was it.

I called it all off
and I went full time

into child with a way
to make this work.

Right.

So, uh, April the
27th child goes

missing from Cyprus
I'm in Afghanistan.

I read it on
the newspaper.

This is a case that
I've read about

before, because
this was the second

attempt of kidnapping.

This kill one of
these companies

kidnapped the prime.

The prime company that's
out there is ripping

families off saying that
they recover children

kidnapped this trial.

Yeah.

It's fucking Madden.

As far as they were
looking over on the

Northern side of Cyprus,
I read the article within

minutes of reading the
article, or instantly as

reading the article as
I'm reading it, I knew

who did it and where
they'd gone, because

I know that tactics
are how they operate.

So I started to gain
sense through the family

and reaching out to
the Facebook groups.

And I have a, obviously
who's working in

Afghanistan is
reaching out and

just go up enough.

Same then not that you
have to do something and

look here because this
is what's happening.

It took me a while
to get my message.

But once I got out of
Afghanistan, April the

27th, and then at the
end of June, I'll get

out of Afghanistan.

I get back to Cyprus
and I met the family.

When the family met
me, then knew that

I was fucking solid.

Everything that I told
him was confirmed because

we've got the financial
records through another

firm like that, to show
that payment had been

made to that company.

And within an hour of
talking to that family,

they sent me information.

I got straight on the
plane within an hour,

and then I flew over to
Turkey when I was into.

Obviously I was chasing
this company down.

Now this is some
finance that's never

been done before.

This is a case of
chasing the company, a

professional company,
but having professionals

chase them, change the
game a lot because I

got to the point first
time that I went to,

I tore that down to
pieces of in 24 hours.

No one had heard
anything about this

kid, um, and where
this kid had gone to.

Prior to me going
into this village, I

tore that town apart
for CCTV footage.

I got photographs
from the locals.

I got pictures of
the house that they

was used in the car
that they was using.

I got C's in the CCTV
footage and I'm actually

making a video about this
and the mum with my page

on account, you see that
the girls had a haircut.

Um, the pictures you
could see with her

body language with a
black turns and it was

a, it was a father.

Her father kidnapped
her, but the way

that it was done,
the company did this.

Was that two masked men
grabbed the child, pushed

to the, uh, the mother to
the ground, outside the

nursery, fro into a car.

The car van drove for
20, 30 minutes, 40

minutes stopped at the
border, handed the child

over to a taxi driver,
the taxi driver then

for across the border.

And then when she got
across the border,

she met a bloke who
is a father that she

didn't know because she
hasn't seen him since

he was a week old.

So it was a complete
stranger and all

of that trauma to
actually be stuck with

a complete stranger.

So a lot of people talk
about this and yeah,

but the mother kidnapped
her first and all that.

That's not the case.

You don't know
the details of

the actual story.

The mother had
never, ever

kidnapped that trial.

There was no court
records that note

no history of
anything like that.

This was a solid
case of kidnapping.

So Saul goes
through all of that.

So the first time I go,
until we get all the CCTV

footage, the photographs
and everything like this,

and it was pretty nuts.

Um, I had the Muller
and the whole village,

like rioting to get me
out of that village, by

the time I'd finished.

And I was standing there
by myself, no backup,

nothing, no money,
or that was a car.

And, uh, and I'm saying,
yeah, I'm not going to

go until you give me
if you're not an eight.

They gave me everything
that I needed.

And it was amazing.

I got some good friends
in that village now.

Like they actually
be friends with

me after that.

I used to go up there
quite on a regular basis

and actually get food
and stuff like this in

the area, long story
short on S but the

chase took me from one
town to another town

and I get to one time.

And among this
massive marina.

And I saw the owner
of that company who

kidnapped the kid doing
really, really shit.

Like as if he was like,

I had gone my God,

how much of this
is a poker game?

Would he get into it?

Like how much of this
is like, obviously

it's a poker game where
you're actually going

to have to throw down
if you have to, but

the preferred outcome
would be to not do.

Yeah.

Um, I've never
thrown down.

Uh, I'll never give up.

Um, it's all about poker.

It's a little about
playing the shots.

So for example, when I
was over in Turkey, one

thing I found because
I was working for

myself by myself and
I had no money and no

budget to do anything.

So I was alone and I had
to keep chasing leads.

Um, I recruited
the Turkish police

by accident.

Have you recruited
by accident?

Yeah, they made
an assumption.

And one thing I believe
is that assumption is I'm

a rule fuck-ups anyway.

So I go into this
town and I'm doing

surveillance on
certain things.

There's one in
particular that I

got a feeling about.

It's a sailboat.

I got a particular
feeling about it.

The flag on it, the
where it is the way

that it's parked.

Um, I've had information
about this town.

It's got to be
that boat as I'm

checking that book.

I get cold.

Uh, the police that
called on me for

looking suspicious.

I had a red notice
on the yellow notice

from Interpol.

So the red note is,
is a wanted notice

and international,
um, warrant of arrest

because this person is
wanted for these charges.

And the yellow notice
is for the child say

that the child is
missing and that child

has gone missing under
these circumstances.

Um, well add them
on me on my phone.

So when they please
took me into ask me,

I was doing everything
through Google translate,

which is fantastic.

And I kept saying
Interpol, integral,

integral, integral,
and showing them these

Interpol warrants.

Um, I need to find
this guy, this guy

is in this town 100%.

This has happened.

And this is about the
father and the trial.

This is what's going on.

I was in there
for an hour.

They decided that
they wanted to

drive me around.

This is definitely a long
story short because I

ended up in a different
town afterwards.

They got covert
surveillance teams or

how was this for me?

And it was just, it
was just crazy how

much they literally
wanted to work with me.

Um, once I was in this,
uh, in this marina,

the guy walks past me.

I'm standing outside
on a cigarette, waiting

for the gentleman
to come outside.

Jasmine is the
Marine police.

They're going to take
me around in the car to

introduce me to people.

They've got connections
to connections,

to connections.

And this is the
underground networks

I'm talking about.

Do you want to find
it underground?

That wound no matter
where you go always

go to a marina,
you'll always find

them 100% guaranteed.

I believe it, it works.

I'm standing outside
and I'm a cigarette.

And I see this guy
walk past me and I'm

looking at this guy.

Doesn't know who the
fuck it is, but I'm like,

why do I recognize it?

And he looks at me
and does that little

glimpse of my content.

And I'm there
thinking, uh, alarm

bells are going off.

Something's not right.

Yeah.

I know that low.

Why do I know that bloke
didn't have a clue?

It was at the time
that I've spoken to him

before never even looked
into it or anything.

Okay.

Walks past me.

And then it was like one
of those moments, there's

a shop on the left side
and it was one of those,

it's something that I
would never do, but it's

one of those obvious
moments where it's

like, oh, look at this.

This is very interesting.

And then he walks
over to this shop.

So what do you
realize is seriously

when he realizes
that at the shop?

He can't really get,
cause he's like now

straight down the
line with me from

where I'm standing.

So it doesn't really have
a good angle to see me

or to see what I'm up to
to see what's going on

or anything like that.

Um, so across the way
this table is right on

the, on, on the wall for
this tables and chairs

for the restaurants and
stuff, Um, and there's

a, there's a menu on
the board, you know,

like when you went to
the outside areas of

the restaurant, they got
the menu, the board man,

you go inside and it was
exactly the same thing.

Again.

What is that?

It's the
over-exaggeration that

brought alarms to me.

Um, and you can see
is the standard man.

It's like looking
over like this and

looking over like that.

And I thought, fuck it.

I know for a fact that
something is wrong

and that is the worst
drills I've ever seen

in my entire life.

Yeah.

So that was, I needed
straight away to know

that this guy was
actually in that area.

Um, well, anyway, that
case in itself ended up

with a situation where
they managed to get

on their boat and they
managed to get out, even

though I was going after
the coast guard and I

was getting a Marine and
managers involved and

all this sort of stuff,
they managed to get

away and they managed
to get about to Norway.

And when they go back
to Norway, because

of everything that we
put in place, first of

all, Stopped them from
being able to sell.

And actually by that
time, they had to rush

into everything because
they didn't have a

solid plan in itself.

Secondly, we got their
bank accounts frozen.

Um, we got all the legal
sides in Norway and in

Cyprus on our sides.

So the minute, and
we have international

restaurants at, for him,
he couldn't leave any

country legally with that
child, no matter what.

So he would have
been stuck in Turkey

if he didn't sneak
out on a boat.

Um, and we put so
much pressure onto

him that he had to
hand that to our back.

As soon as he got into
Norway, the minute

that he touched ground.

And so it was a
long period of time.

It was a long period of
time waiting for them

to actually get from
Turkey over to Norway.

But the minute that they
got into Norway, it was

game over, straight away.

And that was all
because of the pressure

that we put on.

And that was my
first case taking

my company life.

And that's my
introduction to all of

these other companies.

When they, when I was
trying to unify and

actually get them to
work together, then they

saw that I was going out
by myself and chasing.

That's when they start
to realize that they're

going to have problems.

knowing what you know
now, oh, sorry, go on.

So that's a long way
around to tell you about

what I'm doing now.

Well, knowing what
you know now, would

you turn around and
do things differently.

If you could tell the
younger you are there

things that you'd look
at and say, okay, this

is absolutely wrong.

The right way we should
approach it is ABC.

Yeah.

Why would you say
different, but there's

loads of things
I'll do different.

Um, for example, um,
on that Turkey case in

itself, first of all,
I would have been more

operators with me and I
would have pushed from

money on that case.

Um, I was trying to
prove that I could

do it for free.

I was foolish to do that.

Um, there were leads that
I had to follow, which

took me away from leads
that were following,

which was solid taking
me to leads that were

being pushed our way
purposely to get me away

from the distractions.

I had more manpower.

I could have pushed out
there, but the whole

process of everything
that I've gone through

in the learning curve,
from the very first case,

all the way through to
now, don't forget that

first case is nearly
a decade ago now.

Eh, th th this in so
much learning curve,

we've developed formulas,
we've developed systems.

We've developed our
support networks

with developed
after care networks.

Um, the situation
that we're in is

solid right now, and
all of our operations

are solid in the way
that we're actually

operating because
our network is fast.

Um, and it's worldwide,
um, with gathering the

support from the public,
with raising funds from

the public now, which
we'll talk about now,

um, this, this, this
helps us massively

because one of the
biggest hindrances that

we've got is finances,
lack of finances.

Um, I want to provide
a free service to

every family out there.

There isn't a family in
this world that should go

without having somebody
physically looking for

their child when their
child goes missing.

Right now, the majority
of children that are

out there that have
gone missing, and you've

got to understand these
sort of numbers, right?

8 million children,
every single year go

missing worldwide.

And America itself
would say under 1200

and 50,000 children
that reported missing

every single again, at
least a third of them

disappear for good.

And the UK alone is 137
to 240,000 children.

And at least 10% of
those children never

found Australia and
20,000, um, Germany,

a hundred thousand.

This is for countries
that I'm giving you

statistics for and
worldwide, it goes

up to 8 million.

No, one's looking
for those kids.

How scary is that?

Well, you've
likened it before.

I remember you saying
it's like a homeless

person in the streets
and people walk by this

person in the street
and think nothing of it,

because they've never
been in that situation.

What, what would you
tell a parent or somebody

that would help them?

Well, I guess twofold
would help prepare them.

Should they find
themselves in a situation

and maybe kind of open
their eyes to, um, uh,

the possibility that
they could possibly find

themselves in this city?

Yeah, I think the key
to any finish, you

find yourself in a
situation that already

too late, unfortunately.

Right.

Um, and that's not too
late to do anything

about it because that's
what we're here for.

Um, get into towards
that situation.

There's always elements
of planning, majority

of kidnappings or
abductions in the world.

Randomly just picked
off the streets.

Oh, there's one
to take that.

And let's go.

Um, even when it comes
to sex trafficking or

slavery trafficking of
humans for slavery, which

is a massive industry
in the world now, um,

or even if it comes to
organ trafficking, it's

not a case of randoms.

There's always an
element of planning.

It might not be
sophisticated planning,

but there will be an
element of planning.

Um, an example would
be the Cleo Smith

case, which has
recently happened

out in Australia.

Um, she was taken from a
com site and then taken

back within a two mile
radius of her own house,

which means that that
was planned prior to

going into that campsite
purposely, which will

give him destruction.

This planet does
elements of planet.

So the biggest key
that anyone can

do is awareness.

Be aware of your
surroundings, be

aware of what is
happening around you.

Be aware of faces that
you're starting to see

on a regular basis.

Be aware of
setting patterns.

If you go to school,
go different ways.

Every single day,
you don't have to

go at the same time.

You don't have to
go the same way and

things like this.

Um, just be aware if you
walk them with your kid,

don't stand on the, on
the, on the don't let

the child stand on the
side for the road or we

stand on the roadside.

So therefore there's
someone between the

road and so on between
the kids educate the

kids about school.

If they're at school,
never, ever go to a

teacher outside of
the school, to their

car, to actually help
them on something,

you will always go
inside the school.

The teacher should
never ask your

children to do that.

And I use that as an
example, because two kids

were kidnapped in Cyprus
and luckily the police

found them very quickly.

Well, it was at the
position where they'd

already been intoxicated
or something, and they

was unconscious and the
guy was very living,

very close to the
school, found a CCTV

funded, but it's things
like that that kids

need to be educated on
it's things like that.

The families need
to be educated on.

Um, and that leads to the
point of not happening

in the first place.

When we work in
cultural texts and

risk management.

We don't work in close
with texting because we

are the guys that throw
out bodies in front

of the target spot in
front of our client's

body to protect them.

If you get to that
point, you failed.

That's as
simple as it is.

It's all about knocking
into that situation.

Read the signs that
are around you.

If you read those signs
around you and you can

figure out something
is about to go down, or

you have a feeling that
something is going to go

down because of things
that you've seen and

heard, and the Street's
gone quiet, for example,

just as an indicator.

That's as
simple as it is.

If you end up in that
sort of situation, do

the process, go through
the full process, but

be open to the service
that we provide.

Not enough people
know about it at the

moment in the world.

There's a lot of people
that click an unsweet

and it's fantastic.

And I reckon that within
the next year, there's

going to be a hell of
a lot more people that

know about it, but be
open to the services,

call the police 100%,
call the police.

You don't have to wait
to call us if anyone

calls us and we've got
the funds or you've

got the funds, then
we will respond and

we will do everything
as quick as possible.

One of the fastest
cases that we've

ever completed, it
took us two hours.

There was a
girl that was.

And she was groomed
to run away, to be

with her groomer for
sexual gratification.

From the groomer, her
father called us sway, a

mother called the police.

At the same time,
we responded by

getting guys on the
ground straight away.

They started to move
into a location.

We entered the location,
that the area of where

they were because we
had the home from,

from a while away.

Um, we built up an
entire online profile.

We got an address of
where she was going

to go up an online
profile of the target.

We got all of his
criminal record

history with all of his
social media accounts.

From his social
media accounts.

We saw what type of girls
he was targeting, how he

was targeting them, where
he was targeting them.

Um, we built all of
that off and we got

people out the door
within a two hour period

before the police had
knocked the door to ask

questions to the mother.

Wow.

The reason we could do
that is because we had

a pot of money there.

So I'm trying to provide
a free service and the

way that I provide a free
service or the concept

of me, how I want to try
to provide a free service

is it's, it's probably
the most simplistic

concept that there
could possibly be 30,000

pounds for an average
international case.

I don't know what
that translates to

in Canadian dollars.

So you have to go to
ecc.com to check it out.

But, um, 30,000 per
30,000 pound, 15,000

people donate in
two pounds and 7,500

people donate in four
pound, gives us one

international case
population planet 7.8

billion price of a
cup of coffee averages

about four pounds.

Do the maths, it's all.

It's going to take one
cup of coffee, not even

that half a cup of coffee
every single month.

All of you
donate to that.

We can get
international cases.

Million people
donate two pounds.

I can put permanent
teams in Canada,

Australia, America, South
Africa, and mainland.

Um, we can dominate
and take the fight

towards the enemy.

Take the fight towards
the kidnappers.

Take the fight towards
sex traffickers because

you create an, a veteran
military force or ex

military force, which
is using the skills that

we've been taught over
a long career within

the military and private
military and private

security industry to
actually go out and do

something that's right.

To actually look
after our kids.

Cause nobody else's
that's, that's literally

the entire concept
of what we're doing.

Donations that
we take on.

It comes in many forms.

We've got merchandise
out there.

So prom proceeds from
the merchandise that

goes into, uh, raising
funds for general, uh,

from the general public.

We've got the book
for sale, um, which

is now for presales
on the paperback.

We've got Patriana,
which is a monthly

subscription, was
given early access

and exclusive access
to images, stories,

and access to my mind.

More importantly, because
then you get to know

a little bit what's
going on inside there.

What's the one operations
and obviously there's

the there's, there's the
normal stuff of PayPal,

um, uh, crowdfund and
for just giving and,

um, Casha we have.

Okay.

But that's, that's
the concept of what

we're trying to create.

We have to be able to
get to the point where we

create that, that, that
will make us successful.

If we create that pot,
when we've got that pot,

I get tagged at least 10
to 20 times every single

day in a missing case.

There's that day, that
goes by where I don't

have somebody on the
phone crying, maybe

because that kid's gone.

There's not a single day.

That goes by.

Even on the weekends,
I have tons of calls

about this, really.

If we had that pot and
someone called us at

the right time, Right
time then, uh, we can

respond to immediately.

So I guess that would
open up a little

bit of an ethical
quandary as well.

When you talk about the
recovery of, of children,

when most of the
children are, uh, from

statistically, it it'll
be a parental abduction.

Is that, uh, how
have you found that?

Yeah, statistically,
a lot of our cases

that we've taken in
right now, our parents

with deductions, the
way that parents are

deductions work, it's
very complicated.

It's very difficult.

Um, again, like I
say, it's not the only

thing that we take on.

We do take on the
love of the things and

we're leading up to a
lot bigger things with

our affiliations, but
parents are books can

become very complicated.

The first one that we
have to analyze straight

away is what's going on?

Why did it happen?

And why are you calling
us to do something?

Because you as a parent
are over the victim

or you're the cause.

And that sounds
really bad to say.

But it's true.

I've had parents get
in touch with me and

clear as day on the
first initial phone

call within seconds
of them talking to me.

I know for a fact
that they are recalls,

they are trying
to manipulate me.

Um, with that
narcissistic ways.

They're trying to do
anything that they

can to, or emotionally
blackmail me in every

single way possible.

And you can pick up on
that with intuition.

You can pick up on
that and experience

and talking to people
and things like this.

Um, then you get the
real side of it and you

get the ones that you
literally have to do

the investigations on.

So we take on a case
and we look at it and

we're like, all right,
this sounds solid.

Let's check it out.

We will check out
the case, check all

court documents and
court documents.

A lot of details.

Of what's happened,
why it's happened?

Um, criminal records,
background checks to

check that there's
no cause for alarm,

when it comes to the
fact, if there's any

charges towards the
partner, who's ran

away with the child,
whether it'd be from

domestic abuse or, or,
or anything like that.

Uh, we then analyze both
sides of the family,

extended family, all
social media for friends

and family, to see if we
can find that from there,

we scour the internet to
find out anything that

we can possibly find.

And that's before we
even take on a case.

That's fantastic.

Cause I know I would
think anybody who's

putting money into the
pot would want to have

a bit of an idea of, of
how you deal with that

quandary, but that's
the most pragmatic way.

Yeah, it has to, it
has to be checked out.

We do psychological
analysis on the, on

the client as well.

And we figure everything
out with that.

And it's all, this is
why a lot of people

get in touch with
me and they say, oh,

can I have a job?

Um, you can see what sort
of levels that you have

to get to, to be able
to do a job like this.

It's not something
that you can go in the

military and then just
walk in the military and

say, I'm going to do this
because you don't have

those skills, the skills
you don't have that

experience, you don't
have those qualifications

to be able to tease
those sort of levels,

because there are so
many elements that you

have to play in when it
comes to the case itself.

When a parent's with
duction, for example,

um, there's always
a lot of confusion.

First of all, parents
live deductions and

not safe abductions.

It's, it's one of the
biggest misconceptions

on this entire planet
where people believe that

parents are deductions
are safe, abductions.

Even the police can
categorize parents.

Abductions is going to
see productions is wrong.

It's completely wrong.

No matter what at
the lowest level

of a parent's love
deduction, the child

is going to go through.

Mental abuse or parental
alienation that's at

the lowest level, I've
seen cases that have

been taken, taken to
the extremes where a

parent has kidnapped
her own child, or

even a boyfriend has
kidnapped the child

of that partner.

And this is one that
happened in Romania

very recently.

So very recent case.

It came out about two
weeks ago, physically

killed the children and
then killed themselves

just to leave a
psychological impact

on the parent Muslim.

That's how bad the
parents abductions get.

I haven't worked on a
parents that duction

case where there hasn't
been some sort of

psychological elements
involved in it, mental

illness involved into it.

I've had parents that
have been frightened

to kill their kids.

If anybody goes near the
house, um, uh, physical,

actual, physical violence
on the kids recently,

I've had a grandmother
that's been poisoning

her own child, which is
the mother of the actual

kid and her grandchild,
um, just for the

psychological elements
of control over them.

Right.

It's a massive
misconception to say

that they're safe when
it comes to a parents

that addiction and the
recovery of, of a child

has been a victim of the
parents that duction,

um, a lot of people think
that we're kidnapping.

Um, it's always
described like that

because there's always
another misconception

of how it works.

The cases that we take
on the parent that

we're taking it on
with the client has

the legal rights to
take that child back.

And the reason he has,
or she has the legal

rights is because
they've gone through

the courts and they've
taken on full custody.

They've got the Interpol
warrants out, which

is the warrant for
arrest, and they've got

the missing, missing
a yellow notice, which

has been issued, which
gives us international,

um, help from Interpol.

We can literally
assistant to assist

us with local
authorities to be able

to help us with that.

Sometimes we use
them with sometimes.

It depends on what
country we're in,

what the situation
is outside of that.

And then got the
international Hague

convention, which orders
an actual, um, uh,

document, uh, a court
order to say that the

child has to be returned
back to the place of

habitual residence.

Now, with all of that
combined, you then have

to get execution orders
with inside that country

to execute the order,
to return that child

back to that country.

And because of the
hate convention.

And as long as that
country is part of

the hae, then they
will, should, or they

have to in theory,
issue that execution.

So when you go through
with that execution, this

is where we come into it.

We actually at school and
we provide closure to.

This is why we it's
important for us to

have a close protection
and the medical

background as well.

When you go in for locals
protection, we also,

then they have a sense
of authority of power

towards the authorities
that are around them

because they see that
we're there as strange as

it sounds, being British
also helps us massively

when we're going into a
country, such as a third

world country, they see
it and they actually

enforce our orders
as their own orders.

It's a psychological
element.

It is, there's a lot
of nations out there

that subservient and
things like that.

And then all of a
sudden that sort of

psychological element
plays into power as well.

Um, so the parent will
always be the one that

picks up that child.

We will never
touch that child.

We will never ever do
anything to that while

we will only protect
them as a client, as a

close protection plan,
and we'll give them

preventative protection
to make sure that they're

safe to get them out
of that country and

return them back to
their home country.

And that's the
difference in apparent.

We haven't gone after
sex traffickers yet.

This is something
we're building up to.

And it's like, I've
said many times the

more cases that we take
on, it's a matter of

time before we walk
through a door and we've

got more kids there.

And then that leads
us into a completely

different element, which
is the element that

we're trying to get to,
which is why we create

any affiliations with
these large groups, like

our parents for just
fair for child rescue

in America as well.

Things like enough,

Jay.

That's fantastic.

You know, I'm, I'm
looking at the time here.

Is there anything
else that we should be

talking about before we
kind of wrap things up?

Um, I mean, I could
go on all night.

Hi,

I'm loving this stories
and really we could, we

could talk for a while.

I'm just, I'm trying
to be conscious

of your time.

Cause I know you've
got a family and

how we've scheduled.

This one is in between
things here a little bit.

Yeah.

I've got a lot of
conferences coming

up tonight as well.

I think the prime
things are out there.

I think there's
going to be a lot

of questions raised.

Um, and those questions
we can always come

back to on different
podcasts or we can go

into live on or animal
control and join and

ask any questions
that you want to.

But, um, I, I think, I
think the prime points

are covered on it all.

Um, it's, it's
complicated and

it's in depth and
I've only, I've only

touched the surface of.

Well angel in the
shadows, Jay Jordan

of Pegasus ops.

We're going to have
links up on YouTube.

We'll have links up
through the podcast

and if you want to see
more, click those links,

see what Jay's up to.

If you have it
with you need to

be able to donate.

It's a worthy cause.

Consider it, Jay.

Thank you very much for
being on the silver Corp

podcast.

I appreciate you
having me on man.

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