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A show about cameras, creativity, and the weird shit your brains do while you're trying to make something.
Together, we're exploring photography for all levels — asking the silly questions, sharing the expert knowledge, and digging into what it actually takes to grow as a human being and as an artist.
Ep 03 - The Origin of Focus Trap
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[00:00:00]
Casey (she/her): And I am excited for this one 'cause I get to hear a little bit more of your backstory.
Amy (she/her): We know, we know parts. We know the things that have come up in, in our coaching calls which you'll know what you'll un, people will understand more about that when we get into it. .
Casey (she/her): We realized that we should probably just explain who we are and how this show happened. Both of us are people who like context and nuance, and we [00:01:00] want to give you a little bit of context of how me, as somebody who is an absolute beginner, like at this point in time when we're recording this, like, mm, maybe less than six months of playing with my camera and an expert of 25 years have any interest in sitting down to talk about photography together.
Like how do you bridge that dynamic? And for us, it's not. The photography, it's all of the other things, the creativity, problem solving, the dynamic between us. We just crack each other up and en enjoy these conversations. We kept catching ourself in these deep conversations about life and photography and the world.
We were like, Hey, we should record this shit. So here we are. This was absolutely unplanned partnership. This episode is planned. The partnership was unplanned. It was
kind a joke about like, Hey, we should do a podcast. Oh wait, no. Hey, we should do a podcast. And so here we are, episode three, a little bit more about Amy and I and how the hell we ended up in the industries, in the work we're in, in our friendship and on this [00:02:00] podcast.
And I'm gonna let Amy take it away from here.
Amy (she/her): All right. I, I just wanna note that if you're watching the, the YouTube version Casey and I are very nicely color coordinated today, which kind of is the epitome of, of why we're doing this. Like, we didn't plan this.
Casey (she/her): Absolutely not.
Amy (she/her): what I'm wearing, this is what she's wearing, and we, we coordinated colors and I'm highly amused by that.
So,
Casey (she/her): yes. We are on the same wavelength.
Amy (she/her): yes. All right, so here we go. I, I was always gonna be a teacher. My parents are teachers. I grew up my life rotated or revolved around the school calendar. Not just from, because I was in school, but because that was my, the parent, the context of my parents', you know, world as well. So, although I should say there was a brief moment in, it must have been early elementary school when 'cause my parents would remind you of if they were here, they would say, Oh, but wait, do you remember you were gonna be a waitress? So, and I, I don't
Casey (she/her): okay.
Amy (she/her): I don't, I don't that came from. And that is not a dis on [00:03:00] wait, waitstaff at all. I believe me, my that is a freaking hard job. But I somehow got it in my brain that that was the job I was gonna do when I grew up. So when people
Casey (she/her): Nice.
Amy (she/her): I said. But I did eventually get out of that and realize I wanted to be a teacher.
But in that, at that point it was school teacher. 'cause my dad was a, a studies, my mom was English teacher and that, so. You know, I thought I was gonna go in that direction. And then I got into 10th grade geometry math class and realized that I had been saying all these years that I didn't like math. Just because somebody that that's what society said you were supposed to say about math class.
Casey (she/her): Yep.
Amy (she/her): I don't like math. I'm not good at it. Whatever. And actually, I didn't ever say I was bad at it because I was always really good at math. I just said I didn't like it or wasn't, wasn't interested because that's what you were supposed to say about math. And I had a really excellent geography teacher. Excuse me, that'd be my dad is the geography teacher, geometry [00:04:00] teacher. In, in 10th grade and realized that I loved it. And I, I, those of you who don't like math, probably should just plug your ears because I'm gonna say I.
loved the proofs. I loved doing proofs 'cause they were puzzles and it was problems.
Yes. In
Casey (she/her): No.
Amy (she/her): he's shaking her head at me. No,
Casey (she/her): Nope,
Amy (she/her): But that's what I liked. It was, it was a puzzle. It was, I mean, to me it's no different than doing the New York Times crossword or connections or, or whatever. Sudoku, I, I still like Sudoku so it was problem solving and I liked that. So I did go to school, got a math and physics degree in college, got my teaching license and a master's degree in grad school after that. And taught for five years everything from basic math skills in, you know, for seventh and eighth graders who had to pass state tests all the way up through AP calculus and AP statistics. and really enjoyed that. But then I married and was gonna be a mom, so that's where the teaching ended because I didn't wanna do [00:05:00] both.
I wanted to, I thought I wanted to be a stay at home mom. And so, I. Was pregnant and taught through June of, so I was due in August, taught through June or beginning of June, and then I was done. But in that time also had gotten a dog, actually we had several by that point, and one of them was a great name named Mackenzie.
And she was a, a show prospect. I knew very little about the dog show world but she was my entry point to it. I met people that way. I got interested simply because she was called a show prospect. I got interested in,
Casey (she/her): Right.
Amy (she/her): hate to waste that potential. Let's, let's give this a try.
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): So ended up in the show, ring the confirmation world with her and I was terrible. So, yeah, we didn't go very far. We, we gave it a try, but I,
Casey (she/her): That counts.
Amy (she/her): of That was. it does totally counts.
but I met a lot of pe, a lot of people I had at that point, a [00:06:00] Sony Maka camera, which is a very, one of the, you know, a digital camera, but very old. It had three and a half inch floppy discs for memory
Casey (she/her): Wow.
Amy (she/her): Yeah,
Casey (she/her): didn't know cameras ever existed on the flop. You mentioned that the other day in something and I was like, wait. They ever existed before? Like. That's just, that's mind blowing to me that it was a three and a half inch floppy in a camera.
Amy (she/her): it was just barely bigger than a floppy disc. And it had a big slot in the side. And I mean, it was
Casey (she/her): That's
Amy (she/her): an
Casey (she/her): wild.
Amy (she/her): where you could pop,
Casey (she/her): Yep.
Amy (she/her): Pop things in and out.
Casey (she/her): Wild.
Amy (she/her): a shutter lag. So
Casey (she/her): Oh yeah.
Amy (she/her): fun part. So I would take pictures of my friends at the show and just 'cause it was fun. And I would push the shutter and it would be like a half a second, and then it would take the photo.
Casey (she/her): Oh my gosh.
Amy (she/her): Yeah. So when you're trying to, it was fine for when the dogs were standing still.
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): work very well when they were moving. Which dogs do that at dog shows, so,
Casey (she/her): Yes, [00:07:00] yes, they do.
Amy (she/her): Yes, yes, they do.
But I also, as I was preparing for this, I realized that there was a reason why I was taking photos, and that was to help me keep track of where things were in the, the schedule of the day at a dog show. because I knew I had to go in the ring at a certain point. And, but the, the girl dogs, I won't use the proper term. The girl dogs were always after the boy dogs.
Casey (she/her): Right. Clean for the moment we had to go through all of the boy dogs and then Mackenzie and I had to be ready to go once it was the girl dogs.
Amy (she/her): And I couldn't sit still long enough and pay, just pay attention for the sake of paying attention. And this is all realization later, oh God, it was, it was a DHD,
Casey (she/her): to say,
Oh, did we miss it?
Amy (she/her): So the camera was a way for me to keep track of what was going on and pay attention because I wanted to
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): that that urged to take photos of Every dog started really, really early.
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): so. I did that, I switched back eventually to my film camera because here's more problem solving. The, the [00:08:00] half of of a second shutter leg was really bad for doing dogs moving.
So I had a film camera pulled that out. D an SLRI was gonna say DSLR. It wasn't D at that point, it was just SLR. So a nice cannon, SLR camera, 35 millimeter. I would, when I would use it at shows, I would go through lots of roll of film lots, which again, totally unbrand for me.
Casey (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Amy (she/her): So, eventually my, the vet at Mackenzie's Vet Clinic said, Hey, I know you do photography. Would you have any interest in coming to my club's agility trial? I knew nothing about agility. She probably gave me the, the 22nd, you know, elevator pitch for what agility was, and I thought it sounded interesting. And so on a Saturday after morning, I found myself and my husband driving to Duluth to go to an an agility trial and take pictures. And that was film still. So, I probably took a dozen rolls of film that day and the, the way agility photography was done at that [00:09:00] point, because everybody was still shooting film, there were no digital s SLRs that were out there in, in, in extensive use. Was you, you go take pictures all day and then go find the one, the nearest one hour photo,
Casey (she/her): Right.
Amy (she/her): and then you come back and use yourself four by six prints. So did that, couldn't get 'em in one hour. 'cause it was like a dozen rolls of film.
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): I dropped him off, picked him up next, the next morning, went through them all and pulled out the ones that sucked
Casey (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Amy (she/her): I had standards, even though I'd never been to an agility trial before and didn't know what the hell I was doing. Pulled a pull out the good ones and sat at a table and sold them for five bucks a pop.
Casey (she/her): Wow.
Amy (she/her): So my husband had come along on Saturday 'cause he was like, sure, let's just go do this. And then my mom came along on Sunday and I don't know why, I don't remember what the, the whole process for deciding who was going when and why I needed a sh someone to go along anyway.
But she was there and so, and it was helpful because, you know, then you walk [00:10:00] away and go use the porta potty or whatever.
Casey (she/her): Right.
Amy (she/her): I think I walked away with like 300 bucks.
Casey (she/her): Nice.
Amy (she/her): profit. That was, but yeah, I mean, it was, it was kind of a, a shocking moment of, oh, people pay for
Casey (she/her): Yeah,
Amy (she/her): Okay.
Casey (she/her): say the first time you ever get paid for something that you're just kind of doing for fun is this. It's a weird mental moment. Like even if you actually end up losing it all to like expenses, even if there's like no profit, there's still this moment of like, I just got handed cash for doing something fun.
Amy (she/her): And it
Casey (she/her): What?
Amy (she/her): cash at that point.
Casey (she/her): Right.
Amy (she/her): no square.
Casey (she/her): Yeah. That's.
Amy (she/her): Yeah, it was, it was a moment for sure. And so then I, I got asked to do some more events realized really quickly that film and processing was gonna put be, put a real damper on what I could make. Thankfully Canon had just come out fairly recently with their first like pro sumer level. Digital SLR, like [00:11:00] legit version of an SLR camera at the Canon D 30. And I still have such a vivid memory of sitting at the computer and putting it in my shopping cart at b and h photo and, you know, making sure we had extra batteries and all that and hitting the, you know, hovering over the submit order button and my husband saying, just promise me you'll make some money with this. And it, that shifted the whole, you know, everything in a lot of ways the, the making money or getting paid to do something I love shifted, but, but that expectation,
Casey (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Amy (she/her): Of you have to make money with this. It, it's just, that's still one of those moments. So,
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): it did, the camera did pay for itself in two shows,
Casey (she/her): Nice. So there.
Amy (she/her): still there. But that set the stage for if I can't, if I, if it doesn't pay for itself, if it doesn't make money, then it, you're gonna have to give it up. It couldn't, I I wasn't ever, know, I, it was a hobby initially, [00:12:00] but only for the briefest of, of times and I couldn't, it, it couldn't stay that way.
It had to make money. And so that's, that was what guided every decision after that. so,
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): So, but my problem solving was always still involved. you know, I, I was, I remember being at dog shows when I was just showing Mackenzie and it was very confusing and overwhelming and I. I always, so I think I took that on in the photography business and wanted to make things as simple as possible for people who wanted to buy photos. You know, having a, a book of four by six prints, you kind of just had to flip through and find, oh look, there's my dog, and oh look, there's my dog. And maybe I didn't get a photo from a certain run. And so, you know, you, you just kept going and hoping that I got something later on in the day. But I wanted better than that for and it wasn't a conscious thought, even.
It wasn't, oh, I'm gonna make this better. It was, well, there's only one dog in the ring at a time. Should be fairly [00:13:00] straightforward.
Casey (she/her): Right.
Amy (she/her): have to sort by just class, I could sort by dog name. And in those days there were no electronic running orders. There was no agility gate for those of you in agility and know what that is.
There was, there I had to beg for run orders. Show secretary, can you please, please, please print me out a a run order. 'Cause they didn't even email it out. I mean, it was so low tech at that point. But generally I could get my hands on a run order. And then even if it was after the fact, I would go through and figure out, okay, this is this dog and this is that dog.
So a run order would have the dog's name, the breed, and the person, the handler. using one of those bits of information, I usually could sort out who was who and then there might end up being, you know, unknown Border Collie number one.
Casey (she/her): Right,
Amy (she/her): Sorry.
Casey (she/her): Whoops.
Amy (she/her): It's black and white. Sorry, that doesn't help either. The handler's shoes are pink. They're, if I hook or by crook, I was gonna figure this out. So. That was, that was one piece of it was I wanna make the friction less for, for my, my [00:14:00] customers my husband at the time. That makes it sound like I've had more than one,
Casey (she/her): I just wasn't gonna say anything but,
Amy (she/her): I dunno, it's weird to talk about 'cause he's no longer my husband.
And so it's a
Casey (she/her): right.
Amy (she/her): how talking about him in the past tense is it just gets weird. Language is weird. but he, he's a software developer and so he was looking at this from the standpoint of how can we make this more efficient on the ordering and fulfillment end of things. And again, this is, this is 2000.
So, you know, you had mentioned 25 years, I think that's already come up. And which. blows my mind
Casey (she/her): Yeah,
Amy (she/her): hear that number. I'm like, what?
Casey (she/her): yeah.
Amy (she/her): I've been doing this that long. But he, so he wrote me custom point of sale software, and it didn't start out the way it is now. I mean, it was, you know, a, a gradual evolution as all of this was. So point of sale and then other stuff on the back end that helped me automatically do, like cl I had the data, I [00:15:00] had image numbers that matched up to dog names, and so then he could write scripts that would automatically create folders for the dogs and put the right images in there. And that still to this day, is kind of the secret sauce of how I can do this. And still, you know, maybe get a couple hours of sleep a night on a show weekend.
Casey (she/her): Right.
Amy (she/her): So, but all of it was designed to make things easier for the customer. It,
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): I was taking on a lot of work. It
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): taking on out who was, who doing the, the editing. Because as I started with the, you know, the, with the print photos, I'm like, Nope.
Yep, nope, yep. And I still do that to this day with the, the digital photos, the volume is a lot bigger, which how to get around that. and then the naming, you know, organizing by dog name,
Casey (she/her): Right.
Amy (she/her): are kind of the, just the two foundations for me. That, that's, that's as the business owner, as the, the person who wants to make money. are the things I choose to take on for myself to
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): [00:16:00] easier for my customer. So
Casey (she/her): is interesting 'cause most business owners, a lot of business mentality is the flip of that. How do we make it as effortless for the business owner so that they have the highest like kind of dollar per hour ratio. But your focus on the customer and, and, and as you were saying, I can jump in there, is like, as they walk up to the booth.
Like,
Amy (she/her): they walk up to the booth, they can put in their name and assuming that there's no weird things like hyphenated last names or a handler that you know, it matches last names and up pops the photos of your dog. And
Casey (she/her): cool.
Amy (she/her): the number of times I have. Literally, almost literally seeing people's jaws hit the floor is, I don't, I've lost track.
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): that's the payoff for me.
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): I mean, yes, hopefully they'll pay, hopefully they'll actually pay me actual money for the photos too. But I love that reaction.
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): oh my God, how do you, you know,
Casey (she/her): How'd you know that was me,
Amy (she/her): who my dog is?
Casey (she/her): right?
Amy (she/her): it's magic. But it [00:17:00] kind of feels like that. and
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): the, so if you start the, the transaction that way where it's like this magical, how do you know who I am and who my dog is?
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): of sets the stage for a good, good thing going forward.
Casey (she/her): Absolutely.
Amy (she/her): you can speak to this. So for me it's about they're already, their brains are already tired when they come to
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): They've been running, they're, they're trying to make sure their dog is taken care of. All this. for me. If, if I make them go look through photos of everybody's dog to find their own,
Casey (she/her): Gone.
Amy (she/her): just
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): that's, that's too much of a, of a lift for, for
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): I think.
Casey (she/her): Yeah. So I mean, people talk about decision fatigue, like that's a very real concept. Our brain can only kind of process so much information or make so many decisions at a time. And when you're watching run schedules and the dog's hydration and going out and doing your event and thinking through your own run and paying attention to your next slot, and like assuming you probably have some friends and their dogs that you wanna go, there's like you said, there's so much that's already happened [00:18:00] and then you walk up to this thing and maybe you're not even sure if you want photos and you're like, well, I'll just go check it out.
And you can click a button and like, boom, there's you, there's your dog. Oh, I don't have to make any decisions. The decisions been made. I don't even have to call through, like you said, you call the photos. So like I don't even have to decide like, which of these five is in focus. Here's just the five best photos.
All I have to decide is if I'm handing you my credit card or not. Like. Easy choice at that point.
Amy (she/her): right. Well, and I, and that's what I wanna do, is I wanna make it super easy like
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): me and my, my crew, because at, at this point, I do big enough shows that there's a crew. We go through everything and, and pick out the good ones. And we may not, we may, we have different criteria from the customer in terms of I can't make a decision about which one looks most like your dog, like which
Casey (she/her): Right?
Amy (she/her): obstacle you don't have or which thing you've never seen before.
But I can at least cover the technical, you
Casey (she/her): Yes.
Amy (she/her): properly and is it sharp and in focus? And then you have [00:19:00] to take it from there. But you don't have to take it from, where is my dog? What folder do I need to look at,
Casey (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Amy (she/her): long is it gonna take me just to find my dog,
Casey (she/her): Right,
Amy (she/her): you know, squinting at little thumbnails or whatever.
Casey (she/her): right.
Amy (she/her): You get to jump in at, look, it's my dog. I love these, or I don't, you can walk away. I,
Casey (she/her): Yeah. Either way. Yeah.
Amy (she/her): is, I can't, I can't control that part of it.
Casey (she/her): Yeah. But And also
Amy (she/her): you get to jump in and just,
Casey (she/her): yeah, and the dog all in one spot versus like the digital, the print photos where you're flipping through is like, my brain is not good at jumping from like one folder to another, and I'm like, wait, did I like that one? Or did I like that one? Yeah. Crap. Like, I'm too tired. Oh, Sally's dog is running.
You know what? I'll come back and look later. And they never come back. Versus like, here's every picture of your dog who's done a thing today. One spot. They're all in focus
Amy (she/her): not
Casey (she/her): the weekend, not the day. Yeah.
Amy (she/her): All, all weekend. Yeah.
Casey (she/her): right. Here's all of your photos side by side. Pick your favorites and swipe your credit card here.
Amy (she/her): Yes. And the, the [00:20:00] moment, you know, the further evolution of that has been pre-orders where I
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): a picture yet and people are ordering their photos
Casey (she/her): That's awesome.
Amy (she/her): unseen because they don't even freaking exist yet.
Casey (she/her): Right.
Amy (she/her): first time someone did that, they're like, I don't need to see 'em. I know they're gonna be good.
Just can you take, and I had, at that point, I had no structure for being able to do that. I'm like, I, I'm sorry you have to come back on Saturday when the booth is open 'cause I don't know what to do with this right now. And, you know, a DHD brain, if it's not written down, it's not going to happen. So,
Casey (she/her): Yep.
Amy (she/her): had to make sure that it got entered in the order system so that it would actually get delivered. But that was my poor little brain was, was, and, and it still, to this day, I, I get a little bit anxious about taking pre-orders. 'cause I'm like, what if, what if we. Fuck it all up.
Casey (she/her): Right.
Amy (she/her): I mean, my track record speaks for itself, but it still is that intrusive little
Casey (she/her): Oh
Amy (she/her): in there
Casey (she/her): yeah.
Amy (she/her): what if I mess up every photo of that dog? So,
Casey (she/her): That's why refunds exist You behind. If that ever happens, you'll be good,
[00:21:00] but
Amy (she/her): So that's kind of, that's kind of where I got to, you know, 2019, that's where I was. And then 2020 hit and not only was there a global pandemic, but I was also in the middle of a divorce the paperwork was finalized the same week that everything in the US shut down mid middle of March. So I was divorced and home because of COVID and I, all of my dog shows canceled.
Casey (she/her): yeah.
Amy (she/her): I mean, they just, it was like dominoes and I'm sure people can relate to that. Of
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): that, you know, just kind of went poof
Casey (she/her): Poof. Yep.
Amy (she/her): But me it just was this moment of I thought I could, could sustain myself as a business owner, you know, being divorced. I thought the business was in a place where that would happen,
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): okay. then it just went away
Casey (she/her): Ooh, that would've been terrifying.
Amy (she/her): this is, yeah. Yeah. That was there. I've had a couple really low moments in my life and that certainly was one of them,
Casey (she/her): I bet.
Amy (she/her): of, oh my God, what's gonna happen?
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): it didn't all come crashing to [00:22:00] all at once 'cause it was like, you know, we all thought, oh, it'll be two weeks.
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): I never thought it was gonna be two weeks. I mean, when they were saying two weeks, I'm like, fuck that. There is
Casey (she/her): Right.
Amy (she/her): it's gonna be just two weeks. But I did not think it was gonna like cascade all the way down through the, the end of the year.
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): my first show. After pandemic, you know, hit was December of 2020. And the relief I felt did not, I did not sell on site because there was no even though the show was happening, we all kind of had to be like, stay
Casey (she/her): Yeah. Still a lot of the precautions. Yeah,
Amy (she/her): no sales booth at that point.
Casey (she/her): yeah,
Amy (she/her): But when I got the proofs up online and, and people started ordering and that wave of relief of, okay, I'm gonna be okay.
Casey (she/her): yeah. I bet I,
Amy (she/her): it was, it was rough.
Casey (she/her): yeah, I bet.
Amy (she/her): So, you know, I'm, I've got a business that for a while was shut down. I have, I'm freshly divorced and, you know, I figured things out. I got a, I got a thera myself, a therapist and that [00:23:00] was really good to a point. and, you know, things were kind of clicking along, but every, it was, it felt like. Walking through, you know, quicksand or a swamp or something, like, everything was just slow and hard in a way that I couldn't explain.
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): and eventually it got to the point where I, regular talk therapy was just not cutting it. So I went looking for something else, sort of. And I had at some point in, in, in that 2021 ish time period, I don't know, I had gotten on TikTok, not as a creator, but just as a scroller.
Casey (she/her): Yes, as many of us join the platform. Yeah.
Amy (she/her): yes. Yes. And and Casey, you were one of those people that I found at some point, and I think you were one of those where I'm like, follow, like immediately because I, I think I had gotten my A DHD diagnosis by that point.
Casey (she/her): Okay.
Amy (she/her): But I don't know. I don't, that's all fuzzy. That's, that timeline is [00:24:00] super fuzzy, like up to 2019,
Casey (she/her): I
Amy (she/her): tell you. But then 2020, it's an, everything gets fuzzy. But immediate follow, just because I liked what you were saying and it made sense and it was helpful. and I liked just how you were on online and I'm like, I could never do that. And then there was a video that you po posted. I, I couldn't tell you now what it was. It was something business related. I mean, it was somehow like, if you need help in your business kind of idea. And, but I don't know what exactly you said. I don't know what specific topic was, but I'm like, okay, I need something different and this is something different.
So I reached out to you and got, did, we did one of your, you know, intro calls and, that's, so that was the moment we actually met.
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): was that,
Casey (she/her): Yep.
Amy (she/her): and I came into it going, I need you to help me figure out how to not be like, traumatized by my email.
Casey (she/her): Yes.
Amy (she/her): that's what it was at the moment.
Casey (she/her): Yep.
Amy (she/her): But, and so we quickly figured out, you figured out quicker than I did.
Figured[00:25:00]
Casey (she/her): Ah,
Amy (she/her): the email.
Casey (she/her): it wasn't the email. It's never the email.
Amy (she/her): No, it's never the email. So I've been talking long enough.
Casey (she/her): Yes.
Amy (she/her): to, flip now to your side of things
Casey (she/her): Yeah,
Amy (she/her): more about the collaboration. So
Casey (she/her): absolutely. Yes. Yeah. I, I figured it out before, like soon as you said, oh, I have a problem with my email. I knew it wasn't the email, but that's why I do what I do.
Amy (she/her): Yes,
Casey (she/her): so for me, it's, it is funny as Amy and I were kind of getting ready for this episode, like there are kind of a lot of parallels in a way in our lives though.
Like very different details, very similar kind of entry points into various things. I also. Kind of always knew I was gonna be a teacher and not a school teacher. Absolutely. No, thank you. And I didn't know back then I was going to be a teacher, but I was, somewhere in my twenties, I was having a conversation with somebody and they're like, kind of like, what do you wanna be when you grow up?
And it, they said like, look at the through line in your life, like all of the jobs or volunteer activities that you've enjoyed, what is a [00:26:00] commonality amongst all of the, all of those. And when I look back in my life, like it's teaching, it's coaching, I started teaching swim lessons when I was 16. I coached CrossFit through a large portion of my twenties.
I got my master's in Rehabili rehabilitation and mental health counseling. I wanted to go more towards that, like helping people side of it. The deeper side of it. The through line always comes back to teaching for me. But teaching in a coaching, teaching people how to better understand themselves kind of way is my favorite.
And I realized that I have kind of a. Gift. I'm not great at bragging on myself sometimes. I absolutely have a gift. I absolutely have a gift for being able to like, pull things apart. Like Amy, like I'm a problem solver. I wanna help you figure out how to make this thing work for you for the person in front of me, not theoretical.
So like, I remember a moment back when I was coaching CrossFit and I was at a bar, I was out for beer, was at a brewery with a friend. We're all [00:27:00] CrossFitters. Well, I drank a lot of beer. And we're hanging out and I've never seen this person work out. She's actually a friend from out of state happened to be in state for an event.
I've never actually seen her workout. And we were talking about a move in CrossFit called a muscle up,
and so we're talking through it. And I'm like, you know what? I've never even seen you work out. I've never seen you do a muscle up, but I'm guessing try this, this, and this. Based on the problem she was describing to me, like three days later, she text me, she's like, I got my first muscle up. You were right.
And I'm like, I know, know it. And it's just, it is my favorite thing. Like you Amy, you were saying that thing of like, when someone can walk up and like just put their name in and like their dog pops up. That for me, that moment is when it clicks, when I showed you a step or a detail that everybody else has been skipping over and all of a sudden it makes sense, oh, I fucking live for that moment.
So that's kind of where like I, I always known I was gonna end up in, I actually, I, I take that back. I don't think I knew up until. Three or four years ago that I was gonna end up here in my life. [00:28:00] But when I look back, it makes sense. And I started at some point looking for the coaching and teaching stuff.
I thought it was gonna be therapy. I like, that's my master's. I worked as a therapist for a while. I was working with veterans and high risk youth and also really burnt out. So it turned out that wasn't a great option for me. I also wanted to be a stay at home mom. That didn't work out for us.
But so yeah, it was just kind of like, I kind of fell into it. And so, like for me, a lot of what I've learned and the work I do as like a nervous system coach doing like self-trust work, working with folks with A DHD started 'cause I had to figure it out for myself first. So there's the natural part of me that wants to be a teacher and then there's a part of me that had to figure out all this shit the hard way.
I was wounded in Iraq in a roadside bombing in April of 2004. I was deployed there for about a year with the US military and cruising down the street one day and boom. I was left with, I [00:29:00] was left with, sorry, I always talk about that. So cavalierly, but like, it's been 20, it's been 22 years and so it's kind of like almost a joke for me now.
It's like so surreal that this is part of my life. And I'm like, oh yeah, that moment where I got blown up, like of course.
Amy (she/her): I mean, still, I hear it and I've heard it several times. I mean, you know, you would talk about it on TikTok and you've,
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): I've heard it enough and it's still, still surreal for me to hear you talk about it,
Casey (she/her): Yeah
Amy (she/her): because
Casey (she/her): I used to, not be good talking about it. And I had a friend, Clementine, I adore Clementine. She's what I call like a people connector. Like her purpose in life is like, oh, you know, you, you wanna learn about such and such. Here's this obscure other person I know who knows that, let me connect you.
And so we would go to events together and I would be talking about myself and like promoting my little business or talking about CrossFit. And she'd like walk up to me and whoever I was talking to lean in and be like, Hey, did she tell you yet that she got blown up and has a purple heart? And she'd turn around, walk away.
And I'm like, I was like our favorite game. Both of us loved doing this. 'cause people, their face would just [00:30:00] drop. They'd be like, huh. So yeah. So that's where like.
Amy (she/her): still I, when you bring it up. That's kind of how I feel. Like what? Yeah.
Casey (she/her): It's, yeah, this year, as of a couple weeks ago, it's been 22 years since I was wounded and I was wounded when I was 19. So I've now lived more of my life wounded than not wounded with a brain injury than without a brain injury. And so for me, there was this huge, so traumatic brain injury, post-traumatic stress and also a bunch of joint nerve damage down my left shoulder, elbow, and wrist.
And this was back early in the Iraq war. I was national guard. So I came back to my state and just kind of like went back to college. That's what my therapist told me would be good for me, is just go be around other 20 years, something year olds and figure out how to be a grownup. And they're
Amy (she/her): everything's normal, right?
Casey (she/her): pretty much what he said.
Yeah. And turns out, just side note, not a good way to handle PTSD,
Amy (she/her): No.
Casey (she/her): just putting a pin in that one for folks. But what also happened was like nobody was prepared. In my state, in the state of Montana to have [00:31:00] young, disabled combat veterans, let alone a young woman. I 19, I was 20 years old by that point, dealing with combat PTSD, like that incident of me getting blown up was one of many throughout the course of that year, like, and so there wasn't resources for me.
People didn't know how to respond to me. People didn't sometimes take me seriously as a veteran. Like when I'd go to the VA for healthcare, they would ask if I was there with my husband or my grandpa. They never
Amy (she/her): good
Casey (she/her): assumed that I was there. And so I started figuring this shit out for myself. I, I mean, I did work with therapists on and off throughout a lot of this, but like there was also a lot of just my own trial and error and I started figuring out that like.
I just, so much of this I had to figure out for myself. And that's kinda what put me down the road into wanting to be a therapist is like, great, I've figured a bunch of this out. I can help other people figure it out. And then life decided to throw a whole bunch of more shit at me to the point where I literally had a therapist once I came in and handed him the latest bit of news and he's like, you know what?
I would like the universe to cut you [00:32:00] some fucking slack. And I was like, thank you. I agree.
Amy (she/her): That's validating.
Casey (she/her): Yeah, it was, he was a good therapist. But I kept using these tools and these things that I'd built, built for myself in learning to navigate, especially navigate the world with a brain injury. And it kept working and it kept working.
And so then I started applying that to my work and I started seeing that in other people's worlds. And I started like, I jumped on TikTok 'cause I was at a pause point in life where I kind of could decide what to do with what's next. It was. This was kind of what it would've been like 20 21, 20 22, like the world was opening back up.
But we'd just gone through like the major part of like the pandemic, the shutdown, social distancing. My husband and I had moved across the country, so I was in a new city. I didn't know anybody. And I just decided, you know what, I'm gonna figure out this fucking TikTok thing. Like, I don't need to work right now.
I don't need to make money. I'm gonna go play on TikTok and figure it out. Like that's how this all started. And so
Amy (she/her): Okay.
Casey (she/her): started just making content and I'm like, I'm gonna make three to five videos a day and just see [00:33:00] what happens. And I started with what I knew, which was starting businesses and kind of kept morphing my content and playing with different ideas and following different creators and all in all being very A DHD about my approach to TikTok.
And I realized there was this huge gap of content for specifically women with late diagnosed A DHD and autism. There is a whole like swath of us who something about the pandemic finally brought it all to light, and I have lots of theories about that. That's like a whole nother conversation. But like a lot of women in their late thirties to like early fifties, I've got a couple of past clients even to the early sixties where something about the pandemic and a lot of them, there's a common denominator of a really good TikTok algorithm, realize that they have a DHD and or autism
Amy (she/her): Yes.
Casey (she/her): and like.
Amy (she/her): And other identity stuff would pop up too,
Casey (she/her): Oh yes, absolutely. Yes. Like,
Amy (she/her): That
Casey (she/her): yes. I, I have a running, like I've had a couple people think that I'm a fucking psychic, where [00:34:00] we start having this conversation and I, I mentioned I'm an A DHD coach, and they're like, oh my gosh, I realized during the pandemic, I'm A DHD. I'm like, great. Are you also divorced? And realize you're queer?
And they just follow her backwards. Amy being one of the, like
Amy (she/her): would be me.
Casey (she/her): the number of women I have met who realized they were not as straight as they thought they were and or did not like the husband or the man, oh my God, and realize they're neurodivergent like that has happened more times than I can count. And so I went all in on that.
Amy (she/her): Yeah. Good. Good call. No wonder, I mean, you would, you were putting out this siren call and I'm like, hello? I hear you here. I
Casey (she/her): Yes, exactly. Yeah. And so, yeah, I started really leaning my content specifically into that A DHD autism content for late diagnosed women. 'cause you're diagnosed like side tangent. It's not as simple as just, oh, I'm a DHD. Like what are the tools I need to like make my life work better? Like, how do I stop being overwhelmed by my email?
There's also a whole bunch of like, hmm, there's a, and like I said, it's never about the [00:35:00] email. There's a whole bunch of like shame and guilt and grief and anger and frustration that comes with that of what if I had known sooner, wait, nobody else's life is hard like this. I'm not a failure. The system failed me.
Like there's so much else to process. And so I love my work. Is this two part of like, yes, Amy and I spent a lot of time talking about the logistics of her email, like getting caught up on old emails. Starting to get, like setting boundaries with clients, communicating with clients, catching up on old shit, changing software, changing how you organized it.
Like so many tactical things. And I, I love problem solving that. How can I get you to open your inbox without having a panic attack, great fun puzzle for me to solve. And on the side of that,
Amy (she/her): sy. had to build a new system,
Casey (she/her): yes. Yeah,
Amy (she/her): I
Casey (she/her): we had to,
Amy (she/her): yeah.
Casey (she/her): yeah, a whole new way to look at it. Whole new way to process it, sort it disassociate from any bad feelings about the old app.
Like there, there's so much structure there and which is all its own big puzzle. [00:36:00] And then there's this second puzzle of like identity and nervous system and trust and boundaries. And so like a lot of our early conversations were like, Hey, this client sent me this email. How do I respond? Here's how I want to respond.
And it's that like people pleaser with zero boundaries and I'm like, great, let's, let's dial that back a little bit. And now Amy's boundaries are chef's kiss. So good. She'll send me an email and just laugh and be like, oh, I already responded. I'm like, oh, I know you did,
Amy (she/her): Yeah.
Casey (she/her): it's like we had to do that identity work.
And so that's where I kind of fell into this work. And I, I just, if you cannot tell by my enthusiasm, I fucking love problem solving and I love trying to pull all the parts and pieces together. 'cause it's not as simple as the email, it's not as simple as shame. It's not as simple as understanding your A, your A DHD or your autism.
A lot of folks have both. So like how are those interacting with each other? Sometimes we're talking about your A DHD, sometimes we're talking about your autism. Sometimes we're talking about, there's so many pieces that I get to pull together and. So I love [00:37:00] that in my work. And then Amy and I have been working together for almost two years now,
Amy (she/her): It's, it's
Casey (she/her): or are we coming up?
Amy (she/her): Exactly.
Casey (she/her): June. June. Yeah. This June will be two years.
Amy (she/her): was, yeah, that's
Casey (she/her): Yeah, I know. I know. It's June. I had that part burn in my brain.
Amy (she/her): Okay. And I know we're, we're at almost two years.
Casey (she/her): Okay.
Amy (she/her): The, the part, so. For me, what was, so I came to you for something that was very tangible,
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): practical. I need help with my email. But the part that I wasn't getting from my regular therapy was the rest of it was the identity piece.
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): The, dealing with all of, all of that new information that at almost 50 years old, I, I mean, it just kind of all took me out at the knees.
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): And the, the way I could articulate it was email and
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): the, just fix this one thing and then I'll, I'm sure I'll be fine. And, and the deeper we got in,
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): I, could see what I wasn't getting from regular therapy.
[00:38:00] And no shame to the therapist. I mean, she was great. I
Casey (she/her): No.
Amy (she/her): liked her,
Casey (she/her): Yeah,
Amy (she/her): but that's not what it, that was. wasn't what she was there for.
Casey (she/her): yeah,
Amy (she/her): so you, you were, the p brought the piece that I didn't even know I needed.
Casey (she/her): yeah. And a lot.
Amy (she/her): where I've now seen all the progress,
Casey (she/her): Yeah. And that, and I see that a lot in folks is they come to me with something very tangible. They've done, I have yet to work with somebody who's never had a therapist. Everybody I've worked with has had done a lot of therapy and they know their trauma. They know the impact of, you know, you have an ex-husband and the impact of divorce and like what that has done to your, like, we know all of these things about ourselves, but there's a gap in like.
Okay, now what the fuck do I do with all that information? And that's the part that I love. And so then over the course of two years working together, like topics come up, Amy's a photographer, of course. We talk about photography a lot. We talk about her business a lot. And I just kind of, I've always been interested in photos to kind of start to bring this around, like to where like this
Amy (she/her): Yeah.
Casey (she/her): show came from.
It's like, I've [00:39:00] always been interested in photos and now I'm talking to this person about photography all the time and it gets me curious. And I see some of her photos. I actually have one of her prints that I ordered that's on my wall that it's just this stunning little bird photo that just makes me happy every time I look at it.
And I was like, you know what? I wanna, I wanna play with a camera. And so I dug out my husband's old DSLR started playing with it. And then we got into these conversations about photography and about the nervous system.
Amy (she/her): Right. And, and the context for that is I am a teacher now. I've
Casey (she/her): Yes.
Amy (she/her): but not teaching math. I teach photography
Casey (she/her): Yeah
Amy (she/her): taught for some another platform for years, but now am doing it on my own. And see so much of not, not the details, but the, the, the broad picture of the things that I am deal with coming up in my students.
Casey (she/her): yeah,
Amy (she/her): I too had to, to figure out photography on my own in a lot of ways. So there's again, another parallel.[00:40:00]
Casey (she/her): yeah,
Amy (she/her): was teaching back in 2000. There was, there was no YouTube, I don't think, or if it was, it was in such of its infancy. I don't know. I should, I don't
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): actually started,
Casey (she/her): Right. But there wasn't access to material. Yeah,
Amy (she/her): there was no resource. There were no resources, especially for a niche like dog sports photography. Nobody
Casey (she/her): Right.
Amy (she/her): about that.
Casey (she/her): Right?
Amy (she/her): you know, there was, I could go to conventions and, you know, about portrait photography and studio lighting and, you know, youth sports maybe, but,
Casey (she/her): right.
Amy (she/her): how to use Photoshop.
But there was nothing, Lightroom didn't exist.
Casey (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Amy (she/her): so all my workflow was built on not Lightroom people. Are like, well, how do you use it? I'm like, no, I don't because it's, it didn't exist when I first started.
Casey (she/her): right.
Amy (she/her): so much of what I have done has had to be built from the ground up. And I too am looking at other photographers going, I can help you. And I know
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): of resources out there, but they're all, you [00:41:00] know, a YouTube tutorial can't give you feedback for your specific situation.
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): And so that's another one of that, those overlaps
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): you know, kind of your, your journey and my journey.
Casey (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Amy (she/her): and yeah, as we would continue to have conversation, our conversations over two years have shifted from, oh my God, help me with my email to, oh yeah, I see that in my students.
And, you know, talking about. These bigger themes of nervous system regulation and learning skills and all of, all of that. And so I, that definitely is kind of was the foundation for for this, aside from the flippant comment of, you know,
Casey (she/her): We should start a show. Right? Right. But yeah, we, we started realizing that teaching photography and shooting dog sports and the coaching, I do vastly different industries, and yet we both have such a similar view on how to do the work and the concepts of like right or wrong or just [00:42:00] like learning how to be creative and as an adult.
And so, yeah. So that's how we ended up here.
Amy (she/her): Well, we should talk about why it's called the focus trap, because
Casey (she/her): Yes.
Amy (she/her): that, so, in photography, how do I wanna talk about this? So, when I was along those, that theme of, I had to figure everything out for myself in, in photography. I knew the fundamentals of exposure. My dad taught me that back in high school you know, well at that point it was called film speed. A SA you know, so you, you put whatever film speed in, you know, of put it in your camera and it was fixed, like you couldn't change it. So shutter speed, aperture and, and film speed were the things that I, I learned and those transitioned very nicely to digital photography as well. With speed now becoming ISO. And not being fixed. but terms of the actual agility photography, I kind of had to figure that out by myself. I had very, really no sports background at all in terms of taking photos.
So [00:43:00] I started out, as most everybody does, by just tracking the dog. So you, you put the camera in focus tracking mode and you follow it, you know, it basically like a movie only, you're taking still pictures sporadically as you're doing that. And I was very frustrated with the, the results with how, were so many that were bad.
Like the focus was so bad because the camera, I realized it wasn't me. It was that the camera couldn't see the dog. So there, there's lots in, in agility that will get in between, you know, there's jump standards and, and other obstacles and there's judges and things that get in between me and, and the dog or the camera and the dog.
And so the camera drops the focus a lot. DSLR focus systems are not anything like mirrorless systems these days. So, they just couldn't keep up with that kind of speed and that kind of subject. And so I started experimenting with, well, what if I, I know where the dog is gonna cross the jump, so what [00:44:00] if I just focus on the jump and take three or four pictures as it goes over the jump and then I'll go later and put, pick out the one that's the right one, the one where the eyes are in focus. So that technique I didn't know at the time, but that, that's like legit. I had no idea. And it's called a focus trap, or at least that's how I've referred to it. There are
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): traps that are like, you set up a remote camera and, and whatever. But the way I'm using it is I'm pre focusing on something
Casey (she/her): Right.
Amy (she/her): moving in order to take pictures of something that is moving and to get more consistency and reliability and more keepers.
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): so this idea of a focus trap was really foundational. I got to my first bird photography workshop after I'd been doing photography for 15 plus years, and. We were gonna do songbirds in flight, and the workshop leader started explaining how we were gonna do songbirds. And it was basically focus on the feeder and then take the pictures.
They came to the feeder and I about fell off my chair because I had never heard anyone else talk about [00:45:00] that technique before. I thought I was just like, it was a hack and you know, I was cheating or something, I don't know. I'm you mean that's a thing? So focus trap has been a really important foundational piece for me in terms of how I take pictures with
Casey (she/her): yeah.
Amy (she/her): I've, I, now I track the dogs because the mirrorless auto focus is so amazing. But,
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): so that idea of a focus trap is really fundamental to my, you know, my journey in, in agility photography in particular. And
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): that as a name, you had your own reaction to it, and I'll let you.
Casey (she/her): Yeah. I, I love the idea because to me, my brain immediately goes to the way our brain fixates on things and like how we get so stuck. 'cause like, I, I pretty much always see the world through like, how is our brain gonna respond? And so when you said that, I was like, oh yeah, perfect. 'cause focus trap. And as a new photographer, like I keep getting stuck in these things of like, worrying about details and am I good enough and spiraling and like getting [00:46:00] stuck and in my own way.
And so, I just really loved that idea because it, to me, the, the name, the concept of focus trap is a thing we get ourselves stuck in, in my world in kind of a negative context of like. Our brain's getting stuck and then your world is like this hack to like getting a good photo photograph and like, so for me it's like more almost like how do we break the focus trap?
How do we like get unstuck and get out of our own way and let ourselves be curious and explore and not stress out.
Amy (she/her): Yeah. I think and that, that kind of exemplifies how we, how we approach the world, right? I mean, I'm always, I'm trying to troubleshoot what can I do in terms of techniques and skills and how can I teach those to people? Like have you tried a focus trap?
Casey (she/her): yeah,
Amy (she/her): and, and you're, you're coming at it from, you know, in a lot of ways the opposite direction with fixing the internal rather than the external.
Casey (she/her): yeah, yeah, I,
Amy (she/her): and I
Casey (she/her): it's, I think that's why [00:47:00] I was gonna say, I think that's why I love our conversation is again, this thing of like, you are an expert photographer, but kind of new to nervous system. I'm kind of the expert inside out nervous system, but new to photography. And so we have this interesting way of like, we, we, like you're saying like external looking in, internal looking out.
And then we combine this into a conversation and it's fascinating 'cause I'm like, oh yeah, yeah. Like we'll get talking about stuff like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes sense, but like backwards. And you're like, no, no, that makes sense, but like this way. And
Amy (she/her): So Yes.
Casey (she/her): yeah. And so I love that bringing those two together.
And, and also we've kind of touched on this, like for you, photography is so much more like I have tried to learn photography in the past and I get overwhelmed because there's so many like numbers and details and like, lower this and raise this, but this number means the opposite of what you think. And like my brain doesn't do numbers.
Amy (she/her): Yeah.
Casey (she/her): Absolutely not. Do not like them.
Amy (she/her): Yeah.
Casey (she/her): And then I meet you and you talk about it from like, like one of the first things I ever did with you as like where I was the student was you're like, go take a [00:48:00] bad picture. Go take 15 bad pictures and then pick three and tell me like why they're not terrible. And that is what I needed to get out of my head, out of my nervous system and go just explore my camera and explore being creative, creative.
And so that was such a big shift for me. That is why I love talking about photography with you, is it's not te, it's not tools and numbers. There is an element of foundations very important. We are working on some foundations in my photography skills. We've talked about that in the last episode. But it's so much more about like how to be comfortable and curious and creative.
And both of us feel that way about whatever we're looking at in life. How do you be, be curious and experiment with it.
Amy (she/her): Yeah. For me, it's, it's about using the tool that gets you the effect you want and not using a tool because you're supposed to like using a certain aperture just because that's what somebody tells you to do.
Casey (she/her): Mm-hmm.
Amy (she/her): You use a certain aperture because it makes your photo look the way you want it to. And so that's the piece that you have to understand.[00:49:00]
Casey (she/her): Yeah,
Amy (she/her): that to me feels like a different way of approaching. I mean there, there's a certain amount of sameness in teaching photography. Like, you know, you, you do need to know iso shutter speed and aperture,
Casey (she/her): absolutely.
Amy (she/her): what the buttons do and all that, but that's not where it stops.
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): and to talk about what, you want to express, because it is communication photography is just another form of communication.
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): And I think that's the piece that gets neglected a lot. And, and it comes out as, you know, what's your style or what's your point of view? And, and I, I think that's rushing the point. I think that's getting ahead of ourselves because if you don't, if you have a point of view, but you don't know what. tools are that you can use to express that point of view,
Casey (she/her): Right,
Amy (she/her): then you don't even really know what the options are.
Casey (she/her): right.
Amy (she/her): So if we talk about things in a more finding that con, those, that connective piece in the middle there,
Casey (she/her): Yep.
Amy (she/her): is, is what I [00:50:00] think is really super important.
Casey (she/her): Yeah, I love it.
Amy (she/her): it sounds like it worked for you,
Casey (she/her): It worked. I'm, I'm hooked. I, I upgraded my camera. I am like looking for, I'm constantly walking around my property now looking for things to take pictures of and scheming and yeah, I'm hooked. 'cause that was the shift in perspective that I needed to really get into photography. So.
Amy (she/her): Yeah. like I need to be wearing a little enabler badge though. '
Cause I, I
Casey (she/her): Absolutely. Yes.
Amy (she/her): can do that
Casey (she/her): Yeah, you did.
Amy (she/her): me.
Casey (she/her): You, did warn me. You did warn me that if I started asking questions, you were absolutely going to enable me. So I had fair warning what I was getting myself into.
Amy (she/her): Which, you know, could be a good thing. Hire me and I will find, I will give you
all the reasons why you need to, to spend money on a, a new camera and a new lens. I, I'm
Casey (she/her): Yes.
Amy (she/her): I'm really good though, at let's make sure that that's the problem that we're trying to solve,
Casey (she/her): Yeah.
Amy (she/her): a new camera and new lens aren't necessarily gonna fix, you know, fix what's going on in your photography.
So[00:51:00]
Casey (she/her): Yep.
Amy (she/her): we always start with the conversation of, let's, let's take a, a, look at what's going
Casey (she/her): yeah.
Amy (she/her): before we jump into the here, go spend
Casey (she/her): Go wait.
Amy (she/her): on a new kit,
Casey (she/her): Right. Exactly. Yeah. No, I love it.
Amy (she/her): help you spend that money in a
Casey (she/her): Oh, absolutely. Yes. Yes.
Amy (she/her): So if we
Casey (she/her): Right.
Amy (she/her): of bottom line this, what would we say? What, why, why are, why are we here?
What do we hope people go walk away with? That's a simple
Casey (she/her): That's just simple question
Amy (she/her): Come on.
Casey (she/her): for me, like my personal goal with this episode, I'm gonna be curious to hear yours, is I want like, through the conversation of photography, let's give it a niche. But like through the conversation of photography, I want people to have permission to be curious. I want people to stop worrying about the details and the right or wrong of everything and allow themselves to just go be bad at something.
Like I'm coming from the beginner's perspective. Like, let yourself go be bad and be curious and explore and experiment and like learn to look at the world. Like [00:52:00] literally learn to look at the world in a different way. 'cause when you start thinking like, how would I frame this as a shot? You literally start seeing the trees in the background differently.
So for me it's about
Amy (she/her): Yeah.
Casey (she/her): I think more adults need to embrace that beginner mindset and just have fun and go explore and go be curious.
Amy (she/her): Whether it's photography or any other thing.
Casey (she/her): Any other thing? Yes. Yep.
Amy (she/her): for you it's
Casey (she/her): yeah,
Amy (she/her): so, well, and I mean, I don't know if I can add to that. 'cause that's what I want in, in students. I want students who are curious, who want a different way, who, whose brains don't necessarily, whose brains tell them they're not creative.
Casey (she/her): yeah,
Amy (she/her): I would like to change that
Casey (she/her): yeah.
Amy (she/her): their brains because have, I've struggled with that too, to, to think I'm not really creative. Well I'm just creative in a different way. I am very analytical. The math and physics is not an accident. I mean that, that, that totally was on brand
Casey (she/her): Tracks.
Amy (she/her): me in terms of my background and my education.[00:53:00]
Casey (she/her): Yep.
Amy (she/her): think approach things very analytically and logically and that has appealed to a lot of people over the years as I've been teaching that. Try and do the traditional art route and
Casey (she/her): Yeah,
Amy (she/her): have given it up because they don't think they're creative.
Casey (she/her): yeah,
Amy (she/her): I, I want to find the people who have given up and, and but really wanna be photographers.
And I'm here to say, you can be a photographer, like it's me or somebody else, there are ways to do this that don't fit the traditional mold of, of artist.
Casey (she/her): yeah,
Amy (she/her): you know, and, and you can, you can do this. So yeah.
Casey (she/her): yeah.
Amy (she/her): like my poster child for
Casey (she/her): I love it.
Amy (she/her): a lot of ways.
Casey (she/her): I can do that.
All right, well then if you're looking to learn more about Amy, check her out at her website. The link is in the show notes. Same with me. If you wanna learn more about your nervous system and be sure to follow us on Instagram at the focus trap.
And we'll see you next week.