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Long Game: A Heated Rivalry Podcast is a re-watch and deep-dive podcast dedicated to Heated Rivalry, hosted by Declan and Silvan. In each episode, we revisit key moments across the series, unpacking the slow-burn tension, character development, and emotional beats that make the heated rivalry world so compelling. Through thoughtful discussion, close reading, and a fan-informed lens, we explore themes of competition, intimacy, identity, and growth over time, celebrating not just the heat of the rivalry, but the long game it takes to truly understand these characters and their relationship.
New episodes published every Sunday
Declan (00:00)
Hi everyone, welcome back to Long Game Podcasts. My name is Declan and I'm joined today by Brittany. And Brittany is a long term fan of the podcast and she is also part of our book club.
she has lots of great takes So Brittany has very nicely decided to join me today. Brittany, thank you so much.
Brittany Harris (00:19)
Thanks for having me on.
Declan (00:22)
No
problem at all.
Declan (00:23)
just a quick check-in. me and Sylvan are currently entering our final years of education. So we just wanted to let you guys know that because the content might become a bit more infrequent.
we are planning to do every two weeks at the very least, and there will still be content going up on the Patreon too. So if you're not sick of us by that point, then you can obviously join us there and still check that content out. but in the meantime, it's important for us to let you know that there will be a little bit of a dip in content. So we just want to give you the heads up. But thank you so much for supporting us and helping us through this. We're really excited about the content that we're making and we do want to continue more.
But we need to do it in a sustainable way that works for both of us and kind of respects both of our education and careers too. So thank you very much for the support and hopefully we'll be seeing you soon.
Declan (01:10)
Brittany, obviously you've read all the books now as part of the book club. We've finished up and so we're trying to get into some of the breakdowns of the characters and stuff like that now within the podcast. So we're s we're nearly there. We're getting Sylvan back for role model. At the minute he is really busy with different projects and things like that. So he's doing things in the background. So he will be returning for role model. So don't be worrying about that. but Brittany, now that I have you here.
Obviously a common goal is a controversial entry, I would say, in the whole Game Changer series. What did you think of it personally?
Brittany Harris (01:49)
I thought it was cute. I thought, yeah, I like I really like Kyle. I wish Rachel Reed had spent more time in Kyle's perspective. I feel like we get a lot more about Eric and his struggles and a little less about Kyle. and he's just like cute and flirty and has great banter.
I Eric brings a lot of maturity that we don't actually see in any of the other as much in the other novels. He you know, I think you can really feel his age in the book and I like that. I liked the exploration of the age gap romance. It's not something I I
in the job I have, I can be quite judgmental of age gaps in that I see in my like personal life. So it was kind of nice to see a different perspective on that. I appreciate that. I d overall I I do think the conflict didn't have as high emotional stakes maybe, if that makes sense.
Declan (02:51)
Mm.
Brittany Harris (02:54)
And I don't always know if it made sense for Eric's character to be as like he's such a self-aware, grounded person. I don't know if it made total sense for his character to be that conflicted about what he actually wants from life and what direction he wants to go in. Like, he, you know, if that means like he knew he wanted to retire, he knew it was gonna be his last season, he kind of knew.
he kinda knows what he wants from life and where things are going. And then you know he's very open to exploring his sexuality. He feels like this is a good time, I think, because of where his career's at, the fact that he's s divorced.
but he doesn't then once he gets in this relationship, he doesn't really seem to know what to do with it or if he wants to continue with it. And it just didn't strike me as very necessarily always like I think it's fair enough to have that. There is gonna be as I said, I socially judge these things. So there is
Declan (03:45)
Ha ha.
Brittany Harris (03:45)
gonna be that social judgment, but I don't think Eric would have dragged it out as long as he did, and then also like essentially ghosted Kyle for two months towards the end. Like
Declan (03:56)
god, yeah. Yeah.
That was not the best way to paint your main character, I don't think.
yeah, I agree with you. I do like elements of Eric's character in particular. I think I did like the expiration of the age gap.
In a previous episode, you've not seen this one yet. I was discussing in general more the book with Kirsty, who's like another MM romance reviewer. And we were discussing how the age gap could have been gone into in a more realistic way. Because it feels like everyone is on board with the age gap between Kyle and Eric. Whereas like many like Ilian all is like, what's the problem? I don't understand, you know, he likes you, you like him. And there's
Generally very little criticism of it except from Eric himself. And so it's not only is it not like sort of realistic for me in that sense, it's more like you know, it's making Eric seem like the bad guy because he's the one that's the only obstacle in the way of their relationship. And then it feels very one-sided that he's the problem. When in actuality, if you actually play out these events as if they would occur in real life, could you imagine a
Forty something year old hockey player coming out after retiring and saying that he has this twenty three, twenty four year old boyfriend.
Brittany Harris (05:21)
Yeah, I mean I live in Canada. There's not very many hockey players who have admitted to being LGBTQ that were professional in NHL. So even that is quite frankly unrealistic. I think there was
Declan (05:36)
huh.
Brittany Harris (05:36)
one there was one player who was on waivers. so basically he played in the lower league but could get called up, but I don't think he ever was. He was out from the get-go.
Declan (05:46)
Mm-hmm.
Brittany Harris (05:46)
And then
there is one player who came out after He did Rivalry came out and was retired. And like
Declan (05:51)
Yeah. Hmm.
Brittany Harris (05:52)
that's kinda it. so even that aspect of it is a bit unrealistic, but yeah, I think it would it would be really controversial. It it would be.
Declan (06:05)
Yeah.
And I think that's kinda an issue with the conflict towards the end of the book is that the conflict is now Eric's fault. It's no longer an external source. Like it's no longer like it's no longer hockey culture that's the problem. It's not Eric.
Brittany Harris (06:19)
Mm-hmm.
Declan (06:19)
Eric's the one that's now in the way because apparently everyone else is fine with it. When if we were wh heading down a more realistic route, it would actually be the hockey that would be the problem. It would be he'd be slandered for it. There would be articles written about him, is
career be called into question, like there would be very serious consequences for his legacy should he do that and come out with this young much younger man. And that could have been the actual obstacle. But instead it's it's just Eric and his inability to get over it in his own head.
Brittany Harris (06:53)
Yeah, and I mean, I do think by virtue of being retired, if he wants to just be out to his friends and not have a public outing, he probably could could do that. I mean, he is a very good goalie. I think he's won the goalie award in the past, but he could get away with it, I think, a l a lot more than the more active younger players. But
Declan (07:15)
Mm-hmm.
Brittany Harris (07:16)
Yeah, I agree. There would be social judgment. And you don't e you could even bring it in with his family, you know, have him confide in one of his family members and have them be like, This person's too young for you. This is a midlife crisis. What are you doing? You know, you
Declan (07:29)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (07:30)
just broke up with your your wife, you're only you're divorced. Don't you wanna find a woman?
Declan (07:35)
Mm.
Brittany Harris (07:36)
people are gonna really
Yeah, I think I think you could've introduced that really well. But yeah, all the people around him are very supportive of his relationship with Kyle. Like Scott and Kip are pretty much like showing them to g together. I I
Declan (07:47)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (07:50)
I will say, like, I don't know how true this is, but I've definitely seen a lot more age gap romances in the queer community where there's a bigger difference in age. I think that seems more socially acceptable than in the
Declan (08:03)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (08:05)
Heterosexual community where there tends to be a bit more judgment. But that being said, Eric's not really in the queer community.
Declan (08:14)
Yeah, he he wouldn't be, no, not in like the the sense that he's like an active participant, like as in he is queer but he doesn't participate in like queer culture, for example. Whereas Kyle would be slightly different. he would be obviously he works in a gay bar, he is pretty he he seems like someone that would go to de pride, whereas Eric obviously I don't think he would. so there is that element of it,
And yeah, I like that you brought up the idea of like age gaps within, you know, male-male relationships being like slightly more acceptable than with sort of traditional heterosexual relationship. And I wonder why that is. Why it's more acceptable? Because you still
develop
at the same rate. like frontal lobe develops at 25 for everybody. And so, you know, does that mean that men are less vulnerable when they're younger or like less or they can make up for the inexperience for some reason whenever they're younger? I think it's a it's an interesting thing to look at. about why that sort of exists. But I'm not quite sure.
Brittany Harris (09:28)
Figure I just thought it was because you have less of a population to draw on, if that makes sense. Like, there are just more heterosexual people, so there's more people around your age who you're gonna be compatible with. Whereas
Declan (09:40)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (09:41)
if you have less people who are gonna wanna be in a relationship with you, you might have to look at different ages. I mean, I think there's
Declan (09:50)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (09:51)
Also a certain like dumb subculture that sometimes also plays into age gap pieces. Which I
Declan (09:59)
Yeah, hundred percent. There
is there's a type of kink in relation to it as well. I think that that can't be like over like understated. It's there is an element of that definitely. And you can see it in a lot of like queer media and culture and stuff like that, that there is a bit of a fetishization, like the sort of daddy dom sort of thing, that is quite common in sort of gay culture and things like that. Yeah.
I can see what you mean, definitely.
Brittany Harris (10:31)
Yeah. And then maybe for women it's just that women do mature a bit younger. I don't know. Yeah.
Declan (10:40)
Who knows? Interesting.
Brittany Harris (10:42)
But I will say one thing I like about Eric and Kyle is it does flip that whole daddy don thing on its head because Kyle
Declan (10:48)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (10:49)
is the experience partner, and so he is more the one taking control in the bedroom, and Eric is kind of following along. And Eric doesn't want that control because he feels like he's so in kind of like with Shane, he feels like he's so in control the rest of his life. he kind of wants to give that up. And his career is so high stress, he kind of wants to give that up in the bedroom. although it's clear that.
Kyle's pretty verse, like in their discussions that they have. So he
Declan (11:14)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (11:14)
doesn't need to take the lead. But I did like, I liked how that really flipped it on its head. And it didn't, it made it feel it made their relationship feel, I guess, more comfortable for me, if that makes sense. Where
Declan (11:29)
balance.
Brittany Harris (11:30)
more balanced, that's the right word. More balanced. Where the
younger character is kind of guiding the older character through relationship, through sexuality, through these explorations of pretty hot, steamy scenes.
Declan (11:45)
yeah, yeah.
Brittany Harris (11:47)
and then also building that showing how you build that trust together in a sexual relationship and around consent. and then also giving yeah so where and then
bringing in his own life experiences that kind of balance up with Eric's older age. So I like that about this book.
Declan (12:08)
Yeah. It's
a nice sort of subversion of expectation in relation to their sort of sexual side of things and their relationship. and also the idea because in the day-to-day life, Eric is very much the one that's more put together. Kaida's still not sure what he wants to do. Things are a bit up in the air with his family. He's sort of he's in the middle of pining after somebody else. And so Scott or not Scott, sorry, Eric is the one who has the sort of
more put together appearance and the one with the more life experience. But then when you get them in the bedroom, it's completely different. It's it's totally switched up. It's Kyle that has all this experience and Eric is just fumbling around. He doesn't know what to do. And he's happy to let Kyle take the lead on that, which I think is really nice. And like you said, it's very similar to Shane. Like Eric has that same mentality of putting lots of pressure on himself to be perfect and to be like the most efficient version of himself and he's always on.
And then being able to give up that freedom and that control to somebody else to allow you to relax for once. I see like Rachel Reid's definitely copied the same dynamic. I think it really works, especially considering there is the age gap, and if you want to get rid of the iffiness about it, you need to find a way to balance that dynamic a little bit. So yeah, I I definitely agree with you. How do you think sort of Eric and Kyle's relationship compares to the others in terms of like
age and experience because obviously Ryan and Fabian are a bit more mature, but Shane and Illia are really young and Scott and Kip are sorta Well, Scott's completely
Brittany Harris (13:47)
They're in their twenties.
Declan (13:48)
inexperienced. Yeah, they're in their twenties as well. Obviously this is looking at a much more mature version of that relationship. What do you what were the big differences for you?
Brittany Harris (13:58)
I think a lot of it was I don't know if it was so much in the relationship itself, if that makes sense.
Declan (14:08)
Mm-hmm.
Brittany Harris (14:08)
I mean I think Kyle's going into it being a member having lots of experience with men, having enjoyed the club culture, having enjoyed a lot more of that queer community and way of being, which
is similar to Kip and Fabian.
You know, I think he d has a lot of processing he has to do of his own, particularly his first sexual experience, with his boss, where he was I mean, that was the age gap romance that you don't want, really. And I think
Declan (14:44)
Yeah. That was the bad version.
Brittany Harris (14:47)
yeah, that's the bad version. And I think part of it part of that that story does is show how Eric and Kyle's relationship is very different from that one.
and then there is also a difference between an 18 year old and a 25 year old, I think, as well. yeah.
Declan (15:03)
Yeah, big thing. Yeah.
Brittany Harris (15:08)
You know, if if Eric were forty and he it was an 18-year-old, I I don't know if I could get behind that age cap. I I was like tw
Declan (15:13)
I I don't think I could be on board.
Brittany Harris (15:16)
twenty-five, you're already kind of. I was like, okay, you know, he's the frontal lobe is there. You're more established,
Declan (15:21)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (15:22)
you're done with university, you kind of know what you want in life. Like, you know, Kyle's like,
Declan (15:26)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (15:26)
I want to be a bart like Kyle knows he wants to be a bartender, he wants he low-side job, but so I think there's there's that.
And then Eric, I think the big difference with him is he does have so much like emotional intelligence about himself, if that makes sense. Like he's very
Declan (15:42)
Yeah. Yeah.
Brittany Harris (15:43)
regulated. He's very he's very
Yeah, he's very regulated, he's very self-aware, he's very grounded, he's got a lot of mindfulness practices, he I think that's kind of where I see the maturity is there, and maybe less so in the but not in necessarily in the relationship. Like Eric doesn't bring his emotional intelligence about him s an awareness of himself and apply that to Kyle.
Declan (16:15)
Yeah, exactly. And I think
Brittany Harris (16:18)
Which he's been married for years. He must have
Declan (16:21)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (16:21)
developed some relationship. I mean, I guess it sounds like they didn't really communicate very much. Like their relationship just kinda fell apart 'cause they stopped communicating. Like him and his wife.
Declan (16:29)
you can
you can sort of see that in the way in which Eric speaks with Kyle as well because like he's thinking all these internal thoughts but he's not like having it out with Kyle who would completely assuage his ideas and be like this is like I'm fine with this. Like you need to come to terms with the idea that we are there's an age gap between us but ultimately I'm fine with it and it should be okay. So I don't know why you're obsessing over it.
But he doesn't he tries to avoid doing that. And for a much older man, that lack of communication skill is something that you expect to see from Shane and Ilya, not a man in his forties who's already been married before and has already made his mistakes and should be learning. I suppose by the end of the book he has finally. We hope. But yeah, there's definitely still a lack of communication.
skills in regards to Eric that you would expect of one of these much younger couples.
Brittany Harris (17:35)
Well and even like Kyle tells him about his first sexual experience that each gap gone terrible. The and
Declan (17:43)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (17:44)
Eric responds not terribly, like he does reassure Kyle, like you're not the one who's at fault for this, which is a hundred percent true. Like
Declan (17:54)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (17:54)
This isn't your moral failing. This is the moral failing of the the adult in this relationship, the older man. But he then but then he also doesn't respond great. Like he kinda hug like you know what I mean? Like he doesn't really f because instead what it does is cause him
Declan (18:08)
Yeah. He takes the wrong
Yeah, he takes the wrong thing from it.
Brittany Harris (18:13)
Yes, he takes the wrong thing from it. So rather than kind of really emotionally responding to Kyle and Kyle's needs, he kinda goes, my god, I'm this guy. I'm just playing out this story for Kyle again and th I am this creepy man or or what have you. So I think he takes the wrong message from it and he ends up not really being the best partner for Kyle in that moment. When Kyle really needs
Declan (18:34)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (18:34)
somebody to
really lay out why it was an abusive relationship. Which is something that or maybe not lay it out right away, but just kind of lead the dro drop the hints, which is something Eric
Declan (18:46)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (18:46)
does mentally himself, like immediately thereafter, where he's like, I bet you this guy waited until you were eighteen, hired you and started hitting on you. He had this all planned out. That that's
Declan (18:57)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (18:58)
what that's what Eric is thinking, so
Declan (19:01)
And yeah, Eric is like comparing himself to that guy as if they have anything in common about even the way that they met. First of all, Eric does not groom Kyle. They meet at a party, at a friend's party, and they have a shared interest and neither of them are in committed relationships. Kyle is also mature, he's nearly twenty five years old, he is done college, he is working on what he wants to do next.
And his relationship experience from the past. And Eric has no ill intent towards him either. So it's all in Eric's head. And instead of like responding well for Kyle in that moment, he just sort of makes it a bit about himself. Which is a bit crazy. Rather than going, you know, you didn't deserve that. That shouldn't happen. I will never take advantage of you like that. he just assumed that he's already doing it.
Which is like crazy.
Brittany Harris (20:02)
Yeah. Yeah. So I just think I think Eric has a lot of maturity and you can really see that in the ways he thinks about himself, but then he doesn't really apply it to the relationship, if that makes sense.
Declan (20:14)
Yeah. It's actually Kyle that's the more reasonable thinker out of the two. Which it's
Brittany Harris (20:19)
Kyle is
Declan (20:20)
yeah.
Brittany Harris (20:22)
Kyle is much more emotionally in tune with Eric and his needs and who Eric is. Like when
Declan (20:28)
Mm.
Brittany Harris (20:29)
you think about all the discussions he has about consent, the trust that Eric is putting into him to tie him up, blindfold him, all those pieces. He's very in tune
Declan (20:38)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (20:38)
with him in that moment when he he knows when he needs to take the blindfold off. So I mean I know that's more of their sexual dynamic, but you know, he
he is more in tune with Eric and Eric's needs, I think. And recognizing
Declan (20:54)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (20:54)
that he's been through this separation and so he's at this different phase in his life and all those pieces.
and just validating that that relationship is over and even though it was very amiable separation, you know, Kyle wants to make sure Eric feels supported afterwards too. So I just yeah, I just see Kyle actually bringing more of that maturity in terms of the relationship.
Declan (21:19)
Yeah, that's interesting and also quite true to life, I find that some people will make it all the way to forty without developing any emotional intelligence. And then you'll have some people who are eighteen years old and have more emotional intelligence than most grown men. Like it's such a it's such an interesting thing. There's it's like a developmental thing to do of relationships and I don't know if it's because Eric was living half the
like hiding half of his sexuality that he never developed a lot of these skills within relationships because there was always doubt within him, there was always hesitancy and a confusion there about what was going on. and I don't know if that stunted it in a way, but either way, it doesn't bode well for him and Child. It really strongly influences how their relationship unfolds to the point where
It results in the dreaded Fird Act breakup, which I hate with a passion. It's one of my most annoying things about this book. and so you're really contending with a character that's making it really hard to stand by him because of his actions, because of how he's behaving in the relationship.
Brittany Harris (22:45)
Yeah, and he's also well, I actually think part of the emotional intelligence might be the fact that he was in a relationship with a woman. because
Declan (22:55)
Mm.
Brittany Harris (22:56)
there's a lot of research to show sorry, I have like a minor in gender study, so there's a lot of research to show that
Declan (23:02)
Great.
Brittany Harris (23:04)
women bear the emotional load in relationships.
So often times, w for example, after a breakup, the woman usually does way better because she has a lot of emotionally supportive friendships and a lot of other places where she gets her emotional needs met. And men often in relationships just have the women. They don't have other people. So this is heterosexual. I think the queer community is very different.
but they don't have those intense, it's just not so a socially permissible for them to have these intense emotional friendships, which women can have.
Declan (23:43)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (23:43)
or even have those intense emotional relationships with their mom, for example.
Declan (23:47)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (23:48)
Which girls, I I have a very close relationship with my mom. And and I'm not saying again, some men do. I'm just generalizing here. So I think
Declan (23:56)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (23:58)
I think it's almost like heterosexuality allows men to
Declan (24:05)
Not have to develop
Brittany Harris (24:06)
avoid
Declan (24:06)
those skills.
Brittany Harris (24:08)
Yeah. Because the women do it. No, I think
Declan (24:10)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (24:11)
in Eric's relationship his wife stopped doing that work or wasn't as invested in doing that work. And
Declan (24:15)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Brittany Harris (24:17)
that partly l led to the d their marriage ending.
Declan (24:20)
divorce. Yeah.
Yeah. And that's a really interesting point as well because obviously if this was the case in which Eric was not having to develop this over time because his wife was handling the load anyway. it would make sense that when he gets out of a relationship that is not it's not heterosexual. There is no guarantee that your other partner is going to want to do that for you. That he's really struggling and that it's an element that he is really finding a hard time with.
like he does tend to always bring it back to him and he's not really thinking about how okay Kyle is with it instead, which is ultimately what the big concern is. It's he views Kyle as the one that is vulnerable. He views Kyle as the one that has opened himself up to potential damage from Eric, but he's not actually allowing Kyle to dictate that choice. He's sort of claiming it for himself.
And that can make them hard to root for in a sense.
Brittany Harris (25:23)
Mm-hmm. I agree. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. So I think Eric's a problem child of this book.
Declan (25:32)
No, I
did have in the previous episode criticisms of Kyle in regards to the whole painting after Kip thing. and the fact that he's kind of using Eric as a stand in, basically, or like a rebound. I think it does develop into something more meaningful down the book and that's kind of the point, but
So I was speaking to the last guest I had on about it and by the end I was like, I'm not convinced at the end of this book, if Kip broke up with Scott and made himself available, that Kylie wouldn't pursue him.
Brittany Harris (26:15)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Declan (26:19)
Or is that cynical?
Brittany Harris (26:23)
I don't I I don't know. I yeah. I'm not sure. I I don't think you're totally I think it's definitely a possibility. I guess I could see
Declan (26:35)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (26:36)
I could see both. I think it would depend on how Eric and Kyle's relationship continue to develop. 'cause we kind of leave them as they're just starting to get serious.
Declan (26:47)
Yeah. And that's kind of
Brittany Harris (26:48)
So
Declan (26:49)
I think that's part of the issue as well is that you're not really it's kind of like a situation ship for like most of the book. And the big getting back together part, I didn't feel like very emotionally invested in it. And they're sort of
Brittany Harris (27:06)
No.
Declan (27:06)
like getting back together. Like on not like with like Shane and Ilya, like whenever they're finally together, it's like this big fireworks moment. It's like, my God.
And Fabian and Ryan, it's like something you're waiting for Ryan to make a decision on for all of the book, and you can see the the intensity of the emotion between them. That's really good as well. But I don't get it with these two. And so
Brittany Harris (27:31)
Yeah, you're not as
Declan (27:34)
I have less faith in the relationship, if that makes sense.
Brittany Harris (27:37)
No, I agree. Yeah, I I agree. Yeah. And
Declan (27:42)
Mm.
Brittany Harris (27:44)
I don't know how realistic it is that Kyle would have this crush on Kip for years and years that isn't going anywhere and Kip seems relatively unaware of it, but
Declan (27:55)
Well, he's not totally unaware of it because they did kiss and didn't tell either didn't say to Scott about that one. Which I'm I've not forgotten y
Brittany Harris (28:08)
It's true.
Declan (28:09)
I want that to be a scene in Unrivaled where this slips out and there's an argument about it. I just think the drama would be amazing.
Brittany Harris (28:20)
I don't know how much you would argue about something though that also happened. Like by the time Unrivaled happens, I guess what year is that gonna be set in? tw
Declan (28:32)
Probably like ten years later.
Brittany Harris (28:34)
well, maybe only five. I think technically it's twenty seventeen, isn't it, for in game changers? I think.
Declan (28:43)
Think so? Yeah.
Brittany Harris (28:45)
And then I think the long games like twenty nineteen, twenty twenty. Apparently the pandemic didn't happen. And s
Declan (28:52)
Nice for them.
Brittany Harris (28:55)
and then the next book I think I don't know when the next book's gonna be set. So it'll probably
Declan (28:58)
Mm.
Brittany Harris (28:58)
be like five years later. I don't know how much
I don't maybe I'm maybe I'm too grounded in not being emotional. Which maybe the and yeah, maybe I'm too grounded in not being an emotional person that I'm like, well, you made a mistake five years ago. I guess we've gotten past it 'cause now we're married. Like
Declan (29:19)
That's probably the healthier way of looking at it.
Brittany Harris (29:22)
Ha ha ha ha.
Declan (29:25)
but way less dramatic, so I've
Brittany Harris (29:26)
Ha ha ha.
Declan (29:27)
stopped praying for that scene to happen.
so I wanted to also take a look at the themes that each sort of entry within the series has looked at so far. So I've just like labeled some of the major ones for each book. So game changers, I've said that being closeted is just the main theme of that book. It's all about Scott. He's stuck in the closet, he can't come out, and it's influencing this new relationship that he really wants. he didn't rivalry. I said it's overcoming sort of
Preconceived notions, overcoming expectations. These two have a preconceived notion of each other. They need to overcome it. And in that you also have a sort of closeted thing as well going on, in which the two of them are obviously not able to come out. But also there's that expectation of rivalry between the two that makes it even more complicated. So and then Tough Guy, I put dealing with anxiety and learning to live as your true self because Ryan is sort of presenting to the world this big aggressive.
Hockey player when inside he doesn't even like to fight and he is not even enjoying the hockey anymore. And so he's living this version of himself that is not playing. So I put that as the theme for Tough Guy. And then common goal, I put handling requirement and unfulfilled desires.
Brittany Harris (30:43)
Yeah. I don't think it stacks up as well. Like there's less I think especially the way Rachel's writ written it and what we've already said, like there's just not as much pressure built into this. Like
Declan (30:57)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (30:58)
You game changers made so clear the pressures of the closet and why Scott needs to stay closeted and the homophobia and the sport. and I think that continues through to heated rivalry and them being young and having all these conceptions of themselves and the way they they've got this v public facing persona that is
very clear and how they are in private is obviously different from that. And so trying to measure those two things, especially when you're young and and navigating fame, I think, too
Declan (31:30)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (31:31)
plays into that. And I think that
I mean that gives you this tension of them just being in this like tenure situationship where you just want them to finally like have that emotional conversation. Like just
Declan (31:42)
My God, defeat again.
Brittany Harris (31:45)
just get over yourselves and talk. And then also I think sh I mean big expectation for Shane is that I'm a hockey player, so I'm so heterosexual. Right?
Declan (31:53)
Yeah, exactly.
Brittany Harris (31:54)
That's a big thing for him to come to terms with the fact that that that was never in the cards for him.
Declan (31:58)
Yeah. 'Cause he's very black and white.
Brittany Harris (32:02)
Yeah, he's very black and white.
And that's definitely a message you get, right? Hockey players
Declan (32:09)
Mm.
Brittany Harris (32:09)
aren't aren't queer.
Declan (32:11)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (32:13)
I think the tough guy, the this is the dream career, especially in Canada. Like in Canada, parents spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to get their kids to the N with the hope and prayer that their kid might make it to the NHL.
hockey's incredibly expensive. You have to do all these development camps. You have to you are the hometown hero. Like our arena in my town is named after an NHL player. So the arena, like our skating arena, is named after an NHL player. My dad has a signed jersey, like he played for Boston, actually. yeah.
Declan (32:52)
Hm. Hmm. Interesting. So do you have any long term
friends?
Brittany Harris (32:57)
I mean he he was a player long, long, long time ago. nobody knew, nobody recent. but this is what I mean that like you're your hometown hero. Everybody knows who you are. it just yeah, the the
Even the juniors' teams, everybody knows, like my mom's from a small town. Any sports reporting in her small town newspaper is about their their junior hockey team. So he's living the dream. He's living the dream of like almost like of 50% of Canadian boys, right?
Declan (33:35)
Well.
Brittany Harris (33:36)
And so I think there is so much built in that of like
how can I disappoint all these this is supposed to be what I want. This is what I've been told is what I want my whole life. And really coming to terms of the fact that isn't what you're needing. Like that's a huge
Declan (33:56)
Mm.
Brittany Harris (33:56)
conflict. and I think that and and his anxiety playing into that and the way that his anxiety really prevents him from enjoying hockey and the way that hockey culture doesn't acknowledge
emotions other than anger. I think yeah, I think that I think that creates a really strong narrative for for Ryan and also to some extent Fabian because Fabian has to confront the fact that this culture
Declan (34:30)
Never wanted it.
Brittany Harris (34:32)
yeah, this culture he's kind of attracted to somebody who's a part of this culture that he felt really rejected and hurt by and harmed by.
And then you kinda get common goal where it's like I don't even know that retirement like he's Yeah, it's more but unfulfilled for retire
Declan (34:48)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (34:50)
like you know what I mean? You kinda get common goal where it's like unfulfilled desires, exploring really the conflict is his conflict over this being this age gap that yeah.
Declan (35:01)
Yeah.
I when it comes to this book in retirement, retirement is like I'm a counselor, like when people retire, it is like a loss. It's like a grief because your life is like now changing, your priorities are changing, and you're about to be like given a lot of free time. And if you like you said, obviously fifty percent of you
Canadian boys like dream of being a professional hockey player. And that dream is now coming to an end. It's finished. It's
Brittany Harris (35:37)
Mm.
Declan (35:37)
reached its natural conclusion. Where is Eric's crisis in this book about leaving the career? Where is his freaking out of it? Because people in ordinary jobs freak out about it. And he is living his dream, and his dream is coming to an end. Like
Where is the drama in that? Like it's not here. And I find that so odd.
Brittany Harris (36:04)
Yeah. Well, and also you could even play into that the fact that like if he is pursuing your relationship to Kyle, so a lot of hockey people go on to do hockey things. So they become c commentators, coaches. you know, he could become a goalie coach, he could become they they become general managers of teams or, you know, they in some way get involved in the
Declan (36:29)
Yeah, it evolves, yeah.
Brittany Harris (36:31)
Yeah, it evolves and they often continue in hockey in some way, shape, or form. But I mean, really, if he's gonna pursue this relationship to with Kyle, then most of those avenues are gonna be close to him.
Declan (36:44)
Yeah, realistically.
Brittany Harris (36:45)
Realistically, certainly anything NHL related would be close to him. I mean, probably if he wanted to coach like a a kids team, he could do that, but
realistically, it would be close to him. And he doesn't ever like that's never a consideration for him in his relationship in terms of what he wants to do. Like it kinda seems like he's done with he kind of knows when he charges he's done with hockey.
Declan (37:09)
Yeah. And that's kinda like an a missed opportunity to explore him a bit more. and also to lend a bit more ammunition as to why he freaks out about the age gap so much. Because not only would he be sacrificing, you know, his his legacy, but also any potential to return to the sport. He might be cut off from it. Yes, Scott and Kip have come out.
But we learn in later books that the commissioner's not a big fan of the fact that they came out in the first place and he doesn't want it in the sport, he more than likely would step in to try to stop him from becoming involved in certain aspects. and so it's a real consideration that's just not really brought up as part of the inner conflict for him in regards to the age gap, which is a missed opportunity, but also like keeps the stakes within the book a bit too low.
And I think that's where these themes are like struggling. Whereas the other ones, like there are active things happening to these people that they really need to sort out because it's deeply impacting their lives. I don't find that with this book.
Brittany Harris (38:18)
Yeah, I would agree. I also think just in terms I know this is forward looking, we're not talking about the feature books. I actually think I would have enjoyed Common Go more if it were the if it and Tough Guy switched positions in the order.
Declan (38:34)
Mm.
Brittany Harris (38:35)
So if Common Goal came before Tough Guy, and then it went if it went so if it went game changers, he'd arrival like common goal, tough guy, role model, long game.
And the reason for that is I think in Tough Guy she starts to develop a lot of concepts and ideas, particularly around hockey and the hockey
Declan (38:56)
Mm-hmm.
Brittany Harris (38:57)
culture, that you don't touch on at all in common goal.
Declan (39:01)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (39:02)
Like, and that but then come back in a big way, a huge way in role model and come back again in tough in in the long game. But like
Declan (39:08)
Yeah. It's almost the central
focus of role model and it's completely absent in common goal. That's an interesting observation. I never even thought of that.
Brittany Harris (39:18)
Yeah, and it it's not I mean it's there a little bit in Game Changers, it's there a little bit in Heather Rivalry, but it's not a focus of those books, I would say, kind of the hockey culture piece and the problems within hockey culture, of which there are many. but it is something that you know, those tough guy role model and the long game all deal with.
Or at least it is a part of a s a strong theme in those books. And a part
Declan (39:53)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (39:53)
of what Rachel Reed is trying to, I think, really address is the ways in which we can create a hockey culture that is better for everyone. And so I think
It almost you almost have this weird thing where you kinda build that up and then it goes away and then you come back to it. And I almost I feel like I still think Common Gold will have the issues. I just think it would fit better in the order if it it came before Tough Guy. But that's just my
Declan (40:21)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (40:21)
personal opinion.
Declan (40:23)
It would make sense as well in the timeline of like characters coming out and you know being open about their sexuality because Ryan is very weirdly just out and sort of said that he's always been out and it's never like in his book, coming out is not like a big problem for him. This gay hockey player who's relative of anxiety, it's not a big problem apparently. and
I felt like that would have been more appropriate had we seen like the instance of Eric coming out as well. Like there's now a realistic way into people now feeling a bit more comfortable. because then you'll have Scott
Brittany Harris (41:07)
When I think
Declan (41:08)
and Kip and then the encouragement that they had allowing people to come out, even if it's after retirement, it's still like a push in the right direction. But then you could follow that up with Ryan, who is just gonna be the next to go, yeah, I'm gay and what? Do you want to fight?
Brittany Harris (41:24)
No one wants to pay the price. But
Declan (41:26)
Okay.
Brittany Harris (41:28)
I yeah, I think that would be better. And I also we also learned, I think, in Tough Guy that like two other players who had come out are basically shuffled out of the league.
Declan (41:40)
Mm.
Brittany Harris (41:41)
so I believe that's in Tough Guy that that gets briefly mentioned.
Declan (41:48)
Yeah, that's interesting too. I think that just adds more credence to that idea then. Yeah. Very nice, Brittany. I like that. well we're changing the reading order now. from
Brittany Harris (42:00)
Okay.
Declan (42:01)
now on it's it's gonna be common go first, rather tough guy. Interesting. I like that. So next I'm gonna do some comparison questions. I did this previously with Tough Guy and people really enjoyed it.
So
we're going to compare some relationship aspects from obviously Eric and Cow, but we're gonna compare them to the other main characters that have been in the previous books. So let's talk about chemistry, as in who is good at flirting, who has the better banter when they're together, and whose relationship comes across more authentic. In terms of Eric and Cow, for me, I think they are
Flirtatious in a fun way. I don't know if they have like incredible banter when they're together. They don't have like that special sort of thing that say Fabian and Ryan have, where it's like this cute, coaxing person like flirting with this big gentle giant and the sort of bringing out him out of a shell and that back and forth and really sweet interactions, and then obviously Illy and Shane are hilarious together.
their back and forths are some of my favourite in the book. And then you have Scott and Kip, who I would also argue are quite weak in that department. I would
Brittany Harris (43:29)
Mm-hmm.
Declan (43:29)
slot, honestly, Eric and Keg on the same level as Scott and Kip, as in like, okay, you're together, but like I don't know about the chemistry here.
Brittany Harris (43:40)
Yeah, I would say they're like a five. And Scott and Kip are kinda like a f five. Av Av average,
Declan (43:43)
They're like a like a lukewarm five.
Brittany Harris (43:48)
you know, it's not not there, but it's not as present. Whereas like Shane and Ely are like that's all they got. That's all they got for like ten years. They're they're just so
Declan (43:58)
Yeah. They they need it because they're not talking.
Brittany Harris (44:03)
They're so irresisti their chemistry is so off the charts that that keeps bringing them back to this pretty hurtful for both of them situationship.
Declan (44:10)
Yeah. Yeah.
Brittany Harris (44:14)
so yeah, I think Sh Sh Shane and Ilya have thought quite a bit. I think Fabian and Ryan are your right are really cute. They're very cute in their little furdy and very gentle with each other and that's really sweet. So
Declan (44:27)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (44:27)
it's a very different, it's a less spicy, if that makes sense, chemistry compared to Shane and Ilya.
Declan (44:33)
Yeah, I would I would agree with that. How would you rank
Brittany Harris (44:36)
But Shannonie are
like well Shannon and Ailey are like ten. I think Ryan Fabian are like an eight so yeah, eight. And then
Declan (44:44)
Yeah, like that. Yeah.
Brittany Harris (44:46)
yeah, Scott, Kip, Eric, and Kyle are kind of sitting at a five. Th it's there, but it's not it's not Yeah.
Declan (44:52)
It's there. Glad to see them happy. I actually
I like Scott and Kip's relationship outside of their perspective much better than within it. I think in other
Brittany Harris (45:03)
Yes. Yeah.
Declan (45:06)
people's books, especially this one, I actually really like them as a couple. They're kinda like
Brittany Harris (45:10)
Yes.
Declan (45:12)
you can see the dynamic work better whenever it's being observed by our people. Which it's kinda meta because like obviously we're readers
Brittany Harris (45:16)
Yes. And
Declan (45:19)
and we're not observing it directly ourselves, but
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (45:22)
the drag show scene I thought was really cute for Scott and Kip. I thought they
Declan (45:25)
Mm-hmm.
Brittany Harris (45:27)
were really nice and cute and flirty. It does really make me want an Ilya drag queen scene.
Declan (45:33)
Mm.
Brittany Harris (45:35)
Sh sh Shane would be terrible. Shane could not do it, but I think Ilya would love to be on the stage with the drag queen.
Declan (45:42)
Yeah, shame we'll have a heart attack before you could get a bit on that page.
Brittany Harris (45:47)
Yeah.
Shane Shane couldn't do it.
Declan (45:50)
So I I'm gonna put my ranking then. I'm gonna put Eric and Ked at the bottom then because I like Scott and Kip. I actually like Scott and Kip in Eric's book than I do in their own. So I'm gonna put yeah, I think five out ten for both, but for the version in Common Goal it's a six or maybe like a seven out of ten for Scott and Kip. And then Ilia
Jane, Tam, Ryan and Fabian, but seven as well, I think. I think that's fair.
Brittany Harris (46:28)
Yeah, I agree. Actually, Scott and Kip in this book are probably more like a a a s a seven ish. Yeah.
Declan (46:33)
Yeah.
I I I like them in this book. Ironically.
Brittany Harris (46:36)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Declan (46:39)
Now, next category emotional intelligence. So this is who is better at acknowledging their partner's needs, making sure they're met, who is aware of their others' feelings and of acting accordingly, and of voicing their concerns and being mature. So I'll let you go first with this one.
Brittany Harris (47:05)
So if we're excluding the emo bits of emotional intelligence that are self-awareness, self-regulation, Eric scores real bad.
Declan (47:13)
Mm.
Brittany Harris (47:16)
you know, he's I like he doesn't really ever I can't really think of a time when he actually does that for Kyle in the book, other than maybe at the end when he
maybe a bit in the epilogue and he kind of buys a restaurant for him or the bar, I should say.
Declan (47:35)
Is that emotional?
Or just unmanned behavior.
Brittany Harris (47:41)
I mean
he knows that it's what Kyle wants, so he's and he has
Declan (47:44)
Yeah, yeah.
Brittany Harris (47:45)
the financial resources to to provide that. And he knows and Kyle's not some like Kip it has a lot of hangups about the wage disparity,
Declan (47:58)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (47:58)
the income disparity, but that's not a thing for Kyle. Kyle's very happy to have a sugar daddy, which good good on him.
Declan (48:02)
He's fine.
Brittany Harris (48:07)
so
Yeah, he's like probably like a three, I think. Like if you were
Declan (48:13)
Mm-hmm.
Brittany Harris (48:15)
to include his like if you include his own self awareness, emotional like his own ability for himself self, yeah.
Declan (48:21)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (48:23)
I think too, because he has so much mindfulness and so much self-awareness, he tends to err on the side of logic, if that makes sense. Like he he
Declan (48:31)
Mm-hmm.
Brittany Harris (48:31)
always takes a second to be like, I'm feeling this emotion. That's strange. What should be my logical reaction instead to this situation? And so maybe that also feeds into some of his conflict with.
like logically we shouldn't make sense. So maybe that feeds into
Declan (48:47)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (48:47)
some of his concerns about his relationship with Kyle because he's reacting more logically rather than emotionally in how he's actually feeling. But
Declan (48:54)
Mm-hmm.
Brittany Harris (48:56)
but yeah, he doesn't write great on this. And I would say Kyle's probably more like a a seven, I think. Like he does pretty well, I think. In yeah.
Declan (49:05)
think he does well, yeah. I think he's very
patient with with Eric in a lot of ways, yeah.
Brittany Harris (49:11)
Yeah, patient with Eric, kind to Eric, understanding of kind of where Eric's at in life and what he's needing. So I think he does pretty
Declan (49:20)
Mm-hmm.
Brittany Harris (49:20)
well. Yeah.
Declan (49:24)
Well, in comparison to the other characters, I So Scott and Kip. Neither of them rank very highly for me. I think Scott is worse because he is older than Kip and the I never get over the idea that Scott accepted or expected Kip to like live in his apartment like some sort of built in sex doll.
for years until he retires. I thought that was insane, and I think anyone that had a lack of emotional intelligence could not actually say something like that or even think it. So he's very low for me, Kip, stays too long for me and doesn't communicate that he wants to leave too soon. And so I he ranks low for me too. Shane and Ilya, my god. Two people that don't know how to talk to each other. Shane
Brittany Harris (50:18)
Yeah. Yeah.
Declan (50:20)
in particular is quite low for me. I think Ilya is emotionally intelligent, but I think he's too immature with it. Like he is he would rather use it to be upset with someone than just like voice what he's thinking. He understands why people feel and do what they do. And sometimes when he's being kinder he steps in and he uses that in a good way. But a lot of the time he also uses it in like a negative way. And so he is
In terms of actual emotional intelligence, I think he ranks high, but the way in which he implements it in his own relationship is somehow like not always there. And then let me see. Ryan and Fabian then. I think Fabian is probably the most emotionally intelligent character for most most of their book. just because of how patient he is with Ryan and so aware of his needs and his anxieties and everything. Like he's so patient, like their sex scenes are like
They're completely different. It's a completely different vibe because of the way that he treats Ryan throughout it. And the only time that I feel put off by Fabian is whenever he's sort of like making Ryan's problems about him.
Brittany Harris (51:30)
Mm.
Declan (51:30)
which he does a lot. but I still think he ranks one of the highest. And then Ryan, I think I think he's so wrapped up in himself. I think he's quite emotionally intelligent. I think he's just a bit lost. So I would rank him higher as well. That's just my general
Brittany Harris (51:45)
Mm-hmm.
Declan (51:46)
thought.
Brittany Harris (51:47)
No, I would agree with most of them. I so Kip and Scott. Yeah, Scott like it doesn't really it takes Scott a really long time to realize that being closeted is actually being really harmful for Kip. And Kip's miserable in that relationship like in that and
Declan (52:05)
You didn't notice your
boyfriend's miserable?
Brittany Harris (52:07)
Yeah,
so I'm like, that's not great. And like, obviously this is gonna be an issue. So I think he yeah, you have to deduct lots of points for that. And like the fact that it takes him so long to realize that this is gonna be like a a crisis in their relationship. and Kip takes a really long takes a very, very long time. I think he's quite responsive to Scott and Scott's needs to the detriment of his own.
Declan (52:35)
Hm, yeah.
Brittany Harris (52:37)
and it takes him a really long time to really say, Actually this is what I need for the relationship and if you can't provide that, I don't think we can keep going as much as I love you.
So yeah, I think they Scott's probably Eric level. Maybe he's a four. Maybe he's a four. A little bit better than Eric, but
Declan (53:00)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (53:00)
in terms of like again, I'm like this is just assuming Eric is way more self aware than him, but we're not including that for yeah.
Declan (53:07)
Himself, yeah. Yeah, for himself.
Brittany Harris (53:10)
I think Scott's probably like a four in terms of how he responds to Kip and Kip's needs. And he doesn't really understand a lot of it. Like Kip does have a lot of issues with the income disparity and and not wanting that. And Scott's just like, Well, I have money, let me just spend it on you. He doesn't really understand Kip's hangups. Yeah. He doesn't really understand Kip's hangups about it, which, like, I get money has different values for different people, but like he
Declan (53:31)
Mm-hmm.
Brittany Harris (53:32)
he can't he has a hard time seeing Kip's perspective on that. and yeah, I think Kip's probably like
A f five, I would say. Maybe a six.
Declan (53:45)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (53:46)
Five or six. He's pretty responsive to Scott and Scott's needs and understanding where Scott's set. He's less good about
expressing his own needs in the relationship, which
Declan (53:59)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (54:00)
is a problem later on. So it's probably six. Kyle, I would put yeah, I think yeah, I think I said where I'd put Kyle before, right? So
Declan (54:11)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (54:14)
and then we have Illy and Shane. They're tricky ones. I mean Shane has assuming we take as
true that Shane has some autism. He's at a pretty strong disadvantage for developing emotional intelligence.
Declan (54:30)
Yeah. I would argue though that I don't think
Shane in the original Heat at Rivalry book is autistic. I think the more that I reread it and the more that I go over the material, it there's just not enough there for me to be convinced of that. I think it's something she puts in later and then it's really developed in the T V show to become a key core of his character. But I think in that second I think in the second book I don't think he is
I don't think he presents that way at all.
Brittany Harris (55:03)
He definitely, yeah, as you get more into him, he does, for sure. It's
Declan (55:07)
Mm.
Brittany Harris (55:07)
hard for me to separate hated rivalry shame from womb game shame.
Declan (55:10)
Long game one. Yeah. Yeah.
Brittany Harris (55:16)
I
He does have moments where he does. He does It's really hard for me to separate the two, but I yeah, I would say probably his emotional intelligence is not great. He does have moments where he recognizes not and he had a rivalry, but I think future Shane has moments
Declan (55:40)
Eventually, yeah, yeah. This is like he did rivalry in Ilya.
Brittany Harris (55:45)
has moments where he recognizes where
that stuff is going on with his partner, but he's not really able to put a name on it.
Declan (55:53)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (55:55)
I think he's probably like a in he had a rivalry, he's like I mean he's young. He's young and dumb.
Declan (56:02)
Yeah, he's young
and dumb. We like we forget, like Elliot Shane are really young in this book.
Brittany Harris (56:06)
Yeah,
I mean i it starts off when he's like what eight I mean he's older by the time it ends when they finally have their emotionally mature conversation, they're like tw almost twenty-seven, they're twenty-six, I think. Yeah,
Declan (56:15)
Yeah, they need to wait for the frontal lobe to develop.
Brittany Harris (56:18)
yeah. But I mean when they start off they're eighteen, they're dumb. I mean, he doesn't really realize fully except that he's gay until he's like twenty-six. So like his emotion his
Declan (56:25)
Yeah, they're like dumb smelly teenagers for the first time.
Brittany Harris (56:29)
Yeah, yeah. You know, I I feel like you have to give him some grace. I mean, he's pr he's probably like a three going to a five. I I would say by the time we get to the fifth book, he's probably at like a five, I would say. by the time we
Declan (56:41)
Yeah, yeah. It's much better, yeah.
Brittany Harris (56:42)
get to to long game, yeah. So he he kinda his emotional intelligence I do think develops overheated reverie and improves as we go into into the next book. It's still not
Great. but then we get to Ilya. And Ilya's tricky because you're right. Ilya can clock anybody. He is very good at understanding other people's emotions. He doesn't choose to and he's good at understanding his own self too.
Declan (57:12)
Mm-hmm.
Brittany Harris (57:12)
he often chooses not to act on those things or chooses to act in a way that is hurtful, if that makes
Declan (57:20)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (57:20)
sense.
Declan (57:21)
Mm-hmm.
Brittany Harris (57:21)
So,
I mean, I think we can see that in a heated rivalry, the way he treats Shane sometimes is is really hurtful.
Declan (57:30)
Mm.
Brittany Harris (57:31)
he tries to create this emotional distance and and pieces like which he fails at for both of them, but you know he
Declan (57:35)
Yeah. He didn't come up to the butt.
Brittany Harris (57:40)
You know, he's he's hurtful. So in some ways it's almost like he's worse. Do you know what I mean? It's like like sh
Declan (57:48)
He's like sociopathic
with his emotional intelligence.
Brittany Harris (57:53)
Yeah, like like i i it's not entirely true. Like he is not I mean he's an asshole. But he's not
Declan (57:59)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (58:00)
he's a menace, he's an asshole, but yeah, he's not cruel. He's never cruel.
Declan (58:04)
No, he does
have moments where he goes out of his way to make someone feel better just for the sake of it because he understands
Brittany Harris (58:10)
Yes.
Declan (58:11)
the emotion.
Brittany Harris (58:12)
Yes. Yes. So sometimes he uses his you know uses it quite well. We can see that, you know, him kind of talking to Eric about Kyle and that attraction. But it almost makes him like like I'm like she's just oblivious. But like you're you're
Declan (58:27)
She didn't bless him.
Brittany Harris (58:30)
not you're not oblivious. You know these things and yet
Declan (58:34)
Mm.
Brittany Harris (58:35)
you still kinda choose not to
bring them up or you choose to almost you
Declan (58:42)
Yeah. Choose the path of most resistance.
Brittany Harris (58:46)
Yeah. Or
choose to be cruel with the way you respond. Like when
Declan (58:52)
Mm.
Brittany Harris (58:52)
Shane comes out to him. Like he's he's cruel to Shane in that moment.
When
Declan (58:56)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (58:57)
Shane says I'm gay and he's well yeah of course you are like what what why do I care? Whatever, right? I mean that's that's that's not exactly how I mean I get like where he's coming from, but it's not really how you want your partner to react or the way he reacts to Shane in Russia, which I get is being protective, but so
I don't know. He's hard. In his best moments, he's like a tent. But then in his worst moments, he's like.
A two 'cause he's almost
Declan (59:27)
He knows better.
Brittany Harris (59:29)
Cause he knows better. You know? So I don't know where you land with Ilya. He kind
Declan (59:35)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (59:37)
of ends up at like a I mean, probably overall he's more better moments than worst moments. So he probably ends up at like a seven, I would say. But he's
Declan (59:46)
Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. What about
Ryan and Fabian?
Brittany Harris (59:53)
I agree. Fabian's very emotionally intelligent, very in tune, very knows what who he is, what he wants,
Declan (1:00:01)
Mm-hmm.
Brittany Harris (1:00:01)
is gonna do what he needs to get there. and very supportive of Fabian. Or no, sorry, very supportive of Ryan and Ryan's needs and his anxiety and and he's so sweet with him so often and
Declan (1:00:14)
Yeah, it's a patient.
Brittany Harris (1:00:16)
I think also s I mean, sometimes it's a bit selfish, like his ultimatum and like, I don't want you in this because I hate hockey kind of thing. Like that's a bit selfish. But it's also I think he's can see how much hockey's hurting Ryan. Although he's also making it seem like it's doing even worse to Ryan than it maybe is. But I think he
so I think he's probably like an eight, you know,
Declan (1:00:44)
Yeah, yeah.
Brittany Harris (1:00:45)
yeah. And then Ryan, I think he's good. I think he's done a lot of counseling work. He can see what Fabian needs. I think he's probably like I I mean, obviously he has a lot to do. I suspect if you were to check in with we got a better perspective of Ryan and Fabian later on, which we only get a little bit, but not very much.
Declan (1:01:07)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (1:01:07)
I bet you you would see that Ryan's emotional intelligence and responsiveness to Fabian is really, really amazing. Like I could see him I could see him landing at like a nine and once he's at a hockey and he has less anxiety in his life. but I going by the book we have it's probably like a a seven, I'd say.
Declan (1:01:26)
Yeah. I think that's fair. Yeah. I I think Ryan doesn't be given enough props, I think, because he is like so many moments where he does feel like a vulnerable character because of how crippling his anxiety is. But in that there is someone who really does understand other people and understands their needs. So I quite like I think Ryan's such a sweet character. He's one of my favorites. yeah, I think you're I think you're right. Yeah. We do have
A
few more topics, but I know we're running out of time, so I'm just gonna do one or two more, okay.
Brittany Harris (1:02:01)
Okay.
Declan (1:02:01)
So I wanna talk about the best romantic moments. So these are the declarations of love, these are champagne with your partner's friends, it's kissing someone on the ice in front of the entire world, and it's you know getting caught by your parents, snogging your secret boyfriend.
That's what we're talking about. These huge big moments that make you go or lose your mind and Yeah, the confessions, the acts of selflessness, all these things. Would you like to go first?
Brittany Harris (1:02:38)
Sure. Mm, Eric and Kyle.
Declan (1:02:44)
This is the problem.
Brittany Harris (1:02:46)
They don't really have that much. I mean, again, Eric buys the bar.
Yeah, there's not a lot, is there? I'm am I missing a Yeah, I mean am I missing another romantic gesture between them? I mean I
Declan (1:03:06)
the like taking to like an art exhibit thing.
Brittany Harris (1:03:10)
Yeah, but that's almost just like them having fun. Like it's it's yeah. I mean they do some dates, they're cute, but they're not like super romantic. I mean they're still in their situationship and that, so they're not even introducing each other, I don't think, when they go to the gallery as as dating. I mean the
Declan (1:03:23)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (1:03:26)
gallery owner clocks them, but yeah. I don't know, they're kinda
And and they're in they're in the situationship for most of it though too, right? So like they don't even So
Declan (1:03:41)
True, but I will say in
defence of that, that's so Shane and Ilya
Brittany Harris (1:03:47)
Yeah.
Declan (1:03:48)
I like the coming to the cottage, the the the fall on the ice, the Shane getting injured, the like there are
Brittany Harris (1:03:50)
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Declan (1:03:56)
more to find in theirs their bo their first book. than
Brittany Harris (1:04:00)
And
Declan (1:04:01)
find with Kylan. Yeah.
Brittany Harris (1:04:03)
Yeah, I they're not great. They're like probably a three, two. They're not there's just not that many romantic moments that they have.
Declan (1:04:14)
Which is sad, because this is a romance.
Brittany Harris (1:04:15)
yeah.
Yeah. Scott and Kip. I mean Scott has to get props for the kiss on the ice. Like that is
Declan (1:04:22)
Shant.
Brittany Harris (1:04:24)
I mean, I know it's the show, but like in the show you're just like
Declan (1:04:27)
You're like,
my god Objectively like
Brittany Harris (1:04:30)
You're like trembling with it. Yeah.
Declan (1:04:33)
stupidly romantic.
Brittany Harris (1:04:34)
Yeah, and
then like I mean Scott going to meet his family and for dinner and like that was really at that quite romantic and sweet.
Declan (1:04:44)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (1:04:44)
I am kinda sad that we missed Scott meeting Kip's dad in the show, because Kip's dad is so sweet
Declan (1:04:50)
Yeah. Yeah.
Brittany Harris (1:04:51)
in the show. so yeah, I I think you have to give them some pretty good props.
Declan (1:04:58)
Yeah.
When when Scott locks in, he really
Brittany Harris (1:05:02)
Yeah.
Declan (1:05:03)
he really goes for it.
Brittany Harris (1:05:05)
Yeah, and I mean he has some love bombing moments before, which but th they're not always in line with what Kip actually wants or needs.
Declan (1:05:15)
Mm, yeah.
Brittany Harris (1:05:17)
So I I make I think there are probably like eight for Scott and Kip, I think. They're they're pretty high. I think once
Declan (1:05:24)
By the end, yeah.
Brittany Harris (1:05:25)
once once Scott locks in. And then even like the drag show that he's doing for charity, like I thought that it's kind it's romantic. I think that's romantic.
Declan (1:05:30)
it's so good. Such a good moment.
Brittany Harris (1:05:36)
Yeah, and then Ilya and Shane.
I mean Shane plans this whole charity for them to start together. And again, like anxious
Declan (1:05:45)
Passion of love from Elia as well.
Brittany Harris (1:05:48)
confession of love from Ilya.
Declan (1:05:50)
Russian
Brittany Harris (1:05:52)
yeah, I mean he doesn't understand that, but
They confess their love to each other at the cottage, they have that nice moment together. He Shane takes the initiative to invite Ilya to his cottage like multiple times before Ilya accepts.
Declan (1:06:05)
Mm-hmm.
Brittany Harris (1:06:06)
I do think the fact that Ilya really is risking a lot,
Declan (1:06:10)
Mm.
Brittany Harris (1:06:11)
like he's essentially risking his potentially risking his life. like if he's
Declan (1:06:17)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Brittany Harris (1:06:20)
if Russia were to revoke his his passports.
as a response to to him this big national hero being outed and he's forced to go back to Russia. Like I mean, I think there's alternate things he could do to stay in Canada or the US.
Declan (1:06:39)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (1:06:41)
I do think yeah, so there's a lot of like that's kind of that's romantic in some ways too. Like it's
Declan (1:06:47)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Brittany Harris (1:06:48)
a big risk. So I think they score pretty high.
I I feel like maybe I just like them too much from the show. Even though I read the books first.
Declan (1:06:56)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (1:06:58)
probably like a nine, I think. If you consider both of them, both books at the end. Probably for
Declan (1:07:04)
Yeah. Yeah, I get that. Yeah.
Brittany Harris (1:07:06)
frigestiated rivalry.
Probably like a seven.
Declan (1:07:14)
Mm,
I think that's fair. I think that's fair. Yeah.
Ryan and Fabian?
Brittany Harris (1:07:20)
Hmm.
Declan (1:07:27)
Mm.
Brittany Harris (1:07:29)
I'm trying to think.
They have a lot of sex moments that are sweet and a lot of ki emotion I think it feeds
Declan (1:07:36)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (1:07:37)
more into their emotional intelligence, but actual romantic moments. I mean they're I guess they hang out you know, Ryan hangs out with Fabian's friends and shows how like in love he is with Fabian there.
Declan (1:07:48)
That was cute. Yeah.
I like that. like Ryan being there for Fabian's concert and being so in love with the music and stuff. I think they're like really romantic
Brittany Harris (1:07:56)
Yes. Yes. And I
Declan (1:07:59)
moments.
Brittany Harris (1:08:00)
yes and kind of pretending like, I just happen to be here. Like he like Yeah Yeah.
Declan (1:08:03)
I just happened to be here at this very particular thing where you are.
Brittany Harris (1:08:07)
And honestly, like they're almost kissed when they're kids on the ferry was pretty cute. Kind of like for that crushy theme is kinda
Declan (1:08:11)
Yeah, that's cute. Yeah.
Brittany Harris (1:08:13)
romantic. not but yeah. But then Fabian kinda doesn't have that as much, I guess.
Declan (1:08:26)
No, I don't think so. He wears the lingerie. Which is like a not really like a big romantic moment, is it? Yeah, it's more just too sexy.
Brittany Harris (1:08:28)
'Cause he doesn't yes, yeah, but that's also sex yeah.
Declan (1:08:37)
yeah.
Brittany Harris (1:08:41)
'Cause 'cause he kinda gives them this ultimatum. He doesn't really want to be integrated into Fabian or into Ryan's life in a lot of ways. He kinda wants he kinda and he doesn't.
Declan (1:08:49)
So he taught him.
Brittany Harris (1:08:51)
He wants Ryan to integrate into his, which Ryan does. Which e I'm not against. I don't think it was the wrong move for Ryan, but Yeah.
Declan (1:08:59)
Yeah, it
there's not a lot of opportunity for them to do that. Because
Brittany Harris (1:09:05)
Yeah.
Declan (1:09:05)
of how the the dynamic ends up with the two of them, so mmm,
Brittany Harris (1:09:08)
Mm-hmm.
Declan (1:09:10)
yeah. Maybe not too high then.
Brittany Harris (1:09:14)
Maybe like a six, I don't know, five, six somewhere in there. Yeah. Yeah.
Declan (1:09:17)
Maybe fives. I would go five, maybe. Yeah. Yeah.
So Eric and Kelly buying at the bottom.
Brittany Harris (1:09:27)
yeah, they're just at the bottom. They're at the bottom for a lot of things.
Declan (1:09:29)
Yeah. fun.
Yeah. We're we're having issues with these two. And I think this explains
Brittany Harris (1:09:35)
Ha ha ha.
Declan (1:09:36)
why like people don't enjoy this book as much. I think there is fair criticism
Brittany Harris (1:09:39)
W yeah.
Declan (1:09:41)
in it. The more that we're sort of like picking it apart. Like the romance is just sort of like a bit empty in this one, I'm finding. And that actually brings me on to my last question, which I don't think is gonna end well for them either. Forever.
Are these couples going to stay together forever, whose love is strong enough to carry them free until the end of their days?
Brittany Harris (1:10:08)
So Eric and Kyle
I mean, I don't know. I don't I is it weirder for me to say like I could see where if they have a non monogamous relationship and they make that work, I could see them lasting longer.
lots of people have really strong relationships. I mean, it's maybe not your thing, but I know lots of people
Declan (1:10:31)
Ha ha ha.
Brittany Harris (1:10:32)
who are in relation open relationships and it works really well for
Declan (1:10:37)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (1:10:37)
them and who they are and they still maintain like a really strong bedrock in their own relationship. So
Declan (1:10:44)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (1:10:45)
I could see if they could achieve that. They could last a while, but I feel like maybe not all their needs are gonna be met in this one relationship.
Declan (1:10:57)
I kinda agree. I don't think there's enough keeping them together in an emotional sense. I just don't buy their relationship too much. I think it's it feels like Cal could change his mind at any time, and I think the fact that his infatuation with Kip goes on for so long. Like
In my head, I'm like, that's not really gone away just because you've gotten with this guy to distract yourself. And for me that that for me, that's where that idea comes from that these two wouldn't last. Is I don't believe that Kyle is overkept. I don't think there is a conflict between the two that needs to happen where Kyle needs to get this off his chest and needs to put a nail in the coffin for it. That doesn't happen in this book. And so
That for me is unresolved and will cause issues from dealing with people in relationships that will cause issues. So for that, that ranks them low for me.
Brittany Harris (1:12:10)
Yeah, I think as they are as a couple,
Declan (1:12:14)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (1:12:14)
I don't I don't I think they would need to do a lot of work bef to have a long-term relationship. And that was work that Eric did not put into his first relationship, so
Declan (1:12:26)
Yes. Also true. Yeah, he just sort of gave up on it a little bit.
Brittany Harris (1:12:32)
Yeah.
Declan (1:12:33)
so and he kinda did with this one as well because he couldn't wrap his head around age cap. It was only I feel
Brittany Harris (1:12:39)
Mm-hmm.
Declan (1:12:40)
like he was talking into getting back together with Ken in a sense. So
Brittany Harris (1:12:45)
Mm.
Declan (1:12:47)
I don't know it's not giving me Prince Charming and Princess Runoff in the sunset forever and ever.
Brittany Harris (1:12:57)
No. No. I I don't know how I would rank it, but.
Three, I guess, as they are.
Declan (1:13:06)
Yeah. We'll run through the rest of them very quick 'cause obviously we're running out of time.
Brittany Harris (1:13:09)
Yes. I'm running out of
time. our next is Scott and Kip. you know what, Scott and Kip, I would sit at the end of book one, probably. But I think as you see them in this book and the way their relationships developed and how solid they are and how well they're communicating. I mean, you're getting an outside perspective, so it's hard
Declan (1:13:34)
Yeah.
Brittany Harris (1:13:35)
to know internally what's happening.
I think they're pretty I think they're solid. I think they're good. I I think they're gonna
Declan (1:13:39)
Yeah, they have a good chance.
Brittany Harris (1:13:41)
I think they have a good chance. I mean I guess Scott's retirement might be a bit of a test, but I would put them at I put them at like a a s yeah, I put them at like a a an eight or a seven, I think. A s an eight, I think. Yeah.
Declan (1:13:55)
Yeah. Yeah.
Know the boys. Damn, yeah. I feel
Brittany Harris (1:13:59)
Hmm, Shane and Elliot.
Declan (1:14:01)
like
Brittany Harris (1:14:03)
I mean if you're
putting
Declan (1:14:06)
Together forever or killing each other first, I think.
Brittany Harris (1:14:14)
It'll definitely be interesting to see the new book that comes out. 'Cause they've never really lived together.
Declan (1:14:21)
Hmm. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. They do in like spurts, but not for like not years at a time. Like when it becomes mundane, like
Brittany Harris (1:14:31)
Couple months.
Declan (1:14:32)
there's no longer the danger or the the excitement of this secret. And so as as bad as the secret is and how much of a toll it's taking on them, it's keeping the relationship that little bit spicier in a sense. There's still risk. There's something there, there's something
exciting about it. But now that it's changed, what will that look like? So that'll be interesting.
Brittany Harris (1:14:58)
Yeah. Yeah. It will be interesting to see. Yeah, I I think they they feel like they feel like the I want a ten. I want a ten for them, but I mean at the end hated rivalry, I don't know. I mean they're they're so new to their relationship, so yeah.
Declan (1:15:16)
Yeah. Yeah.
Okay. We'll put a pattern there until the next book.
Brittany Harris (1:15:23)
Okay. And then Fabian and Ryan. I think I think probably I again I think I'd score them pretty highly, like a a nine or an eight. Yeah.
Declan (1:15:34)
Yeah. I think they're kinda made for each other in a way.
Brittany Harris (1:15:38)
Yeah. Yes.
Declan (1:15:40)
Yeah. They both like give each other what the other's missing and I think they
Brittany Harris (1:15:44)
Yes.
Declan (1:15:44)
complete each other in a really nice way. And there's no
Brittany Harris (1:15:47)
Yes.
Declan (1:15:47)
really aggressive conflict in their relationship that could really drag them apart. So
Brittany Harris (1:15:52)
No.
Declan (1:15:55)
Together forever, I think.
Brittany Harris (1:15:56)
Yeah,
I think so. I think so. I rate them pretty high.
Declan (1:15:59)
Yeah.
But that's all that we have time for. Brittany has had to go there, but thank you so much for joining me. she was absolutely great. I really enjoyed her takes on this book and she really made me think about our things I hadn't considered as well in the past. so I look forward to maybe having her on again.
but thank you for joining me. if you are interested in watching more of this content, then don't forget to like and subscribe and also leave a comment if you have any questions for us, or there was someone that you wanted to discuss. we're pretty active in that sense. Also, don't forget about the book club. It is the long game book club. in that we have completed the Heat at Rivalry series, but obviously there's still discussions going on, and we are now moving on to different MM romance books.
So at the moment we're reading TJ Clun's Wolf Song, which is an exercise in pain, but in a good way. So if you'd like to join us for that, then make sure you join the book club. It's on Fable again. And also don't forget about our Patreon as well. that is now open for people. There are newsletters going on there. You'll get access to the podcast earlier than other people. and also I'll be putting on some long sort of term book reviews as well. That'll be a lot more extended versions of.
even the Heat at Rivalry books or also other books that I read on the book club. So keep an eye on them. You can join us on Patreon. It should be in the link for wherever you're listening or watching this. But if you can't find it there, it's the Long Game Podcast Patreon. So if you can join us, that'd be much appreciated. And I will see you all next time.