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Join feminist coaches Taina Brown and Becky Mollenkamp for casual (and often deep) conversations about business, current events, politics, pop culture, and more. We’re not perfect activists or allies! These are our real-time, messy feminist perspectives on the world around us.
This podcast is for you if you find yourself asking questions like:
• Why is feminism important today?
• What is intersectional feminism?
• Can capitalism be ethical?
• What does liberation mean?
• Equity vs. equality — what's the difference and why does it matter?
• What does a Trump victory mean for my life?
• What is mutual aid?
• How do we engage in collective action?
• Can I find safety in community?
• What's a feminist approach to ... ?
• What's the feminist perspective on ...?
Becky Mollenkamp: Hello, how are you today, Taina?
Taina Brown: I'm good. I'm a little out of breath. Not because I was running or anything, but my asthma is a little... I've had some allergy stuff happening the past couple days. I just can't stop sneezing and then allergies triggers your asthma, which is weird, but it does. But yeah, no, I'm good. I'm a little sleepy because our dogs are old and they will sometimes wake up multiple times in the middle of the night for no fucking reason. So, well, one of them, it's usually because she's got a pee. So like we put her down on the pee pee pad. The other one is, think, and I think I may have mentioned this before, she has like the beginning stages of like doggy dementia.
Becky Mollenkamp: Yeah, I was gonna say it's what they call sundowning. Humans do it and so do dogs. Mine did that towards the end of my chihuahua at the end of his life. Cause they, your brain starts to get confused about what time of day it is and like is not all there. And so then they, yeah, they're up at night. So yeah, just up and at it. Yeah, that's, it's, that's part of that. It'll happen to us too, if we should live so long, I think. So let's hope. Speaking of dogs, I spent the weekend at my best friend's house, who I haven't seen. We only get to see each other about twice a year, so it was very exciting. And she has a very hyper puppy, who's like a year, and about three times bigger or four times bigger than my dog, who's now almost three. And when I'm with just my dog, I think my dog is super hyper. Then I see her around this puppy and I'm like, no, I forget what, I'm like, I forgot what puppies are like. So that was pandemonium, but we had a great time and watched Elf to my first Christmas movie of the year, which I usually write. Buddy Elf, what's your favorite color? I have a strict no Christmas anything before Thanksgiving rule generally. And this year, all the rules have gone out the window because life is lifeing and the world is hard. And if something can bring me joy, I'm given it a shot, including watching a holiday movie in November, which is like.
Taina Brown: I may have mentioned this on the show as well, but I think I've definitely mentioned it to you in conversation. Like we are a Hallmark household. So we like the escapism that Hallmark movies can provide and they start their holiday movies in late October. So, and it's a new movie every Friday, Saturday and Sunday night through New Year's, which is like... wild.
Becky Mollenkamp: And those are very cheesy. Is that an OK word to use to describe them? But I think it's some of what we need right now. And I do feel like it kind of segues into what we want to talk about because we're talking about like digital detoxing and part of it. I someone pointed out to me speaking of not detoxing because now I was looking at social media this morning, but I had posted about watching Elf and how for like 90 minutes I kind of forgot about the world and this election and all of the potential problems and the cabinet announcements and all and was just sort of escaped. And I was like, that feels so nice. And it was because I don't when I'm watching TV, especially when I'm like focused on like, I want to watch this thing. I put my I don't have my laptop open. I don't have my phone away out. I know a lot of people are like scrolling and watching. My husband drives me nuts because he's always scrolling while watching. I'm like, just do one thing.
Taina Brown: Yeah, you put it away.
Becky Mollenkamp: But anyway, somebody pointed out like, I wish I could put my phone down just to enjoy a movie. I'm like, that's yeah, that's a problem. And it's something I'm trying to work on for myself because I don't know if I can survive the next however many years that we have ahead of us of what's here at minimum two until another election if we get one and then at least four before Cheeto is gone. So anyway, I have to figure something out. And part of that, I think, looks like making better media choices.
Taina Brown: I love that. you've mentioned this in the past couple of weeks about just as a business owner, what does that look like? Because I think when you're an entrepreneur, like if you're a big corporation, you already have brand visibility, right? Like people already know what your logo looks like, what your brand feels like and sounds like. But I think when you're an entrepreneur, when you're a small business owner, a lot of the work that we do is focused on visibility, like getting in front of new people, because we don't want to burn out the people that are already a part of our community, that already know the work that we do and may have already worked with us or are potentially thinking about working with us in the future. And so I think it's hard to walk away from the digital space as a small business owner because we are so used to relying on digital media to market our businesses. So what's your process right now? Like what does that look like for you?
Becky Mollenkamp: Do you know Amelia Hruby, starts with an H. So she has a podcast called Off the Grid for anyone listening, and I am now a paid subscriber of her, like, sub stack her community because I just really love what she's doing. So she's off social media. She's a sub stack now, and that's more of an experiment. But she's trying that out with her podcasts. But she's using it only basically as a membership. So her paid community, like you get paid bonus or bonuses for being inside of there. She has three subscribers, but they get basically nothing. So like it's really just for the paid community in a way of approaching that. But she's off Instagram. She has been for like, I think, three or four years now, something like that. And off of like all the other, she's not on any of the social media channels. And her business is real successful. Now, part of her business is a podcast editing studio. We don't use her or anything because we do this all ourselves. So just, know, she doesn't know I'm right. And this is not a promotion for her, but I just I'm pointing her out because she's one of those people that's out there doing it, running a business very successfully without social media. Not Jeff Bezos, not even, you know, Marie Forleo, but like enough, which I think is an important piece of, think, this conversation around business and detoxing, because I think first you have to know what's enough. And for her, it's like, right, can I make enough money to pay my bills and to maybe travel or whatever? And like not having these giant expectations, but she's off social media. So I follow her and I listen to her podcast called Off the Grid, Off the Grid, all about like going off social media. And she also then teaches about going off social media. So she has these two pronged businesses. One is like a studio that's just doing podcast editing and the other is helping other people on this journey of getting off social media. The podcast studios, the much bigger part of her business. But I really admire seeing other people who are doing it. Alexandra Franzen is another person who teaches email marketing and is not on social media. Her whole thing is just how to use email marketing. So there are people out there, but they're harder to find, obviously, because they're not on social media. So there are people out there doing this. It does happen. And I'm old enough to remember business before social media, really, because my business started in 2005. I'm coming up on my 20th anniversary of being self-employed. I know it's wild, isn't it? I spent very little time traditional appointment. I knew right away it wasn't for me. So I have been self-employed for a long, long time. And in the beginning of that, 2005, there really wasn't much in the way of social media. Like there was LinkedIn. Facebook was sort of there, but certainly really wasn't, didn't have the mass appeal that it did a few years later. And it wasn't being used for business. Twitter wasn't around yet. So like it was just nothing. And I was making great money because it was all referral-based marketing, the tried and true sort of things that have always worked throughout humanity. Who do you know? Who does this thing? I know this person. Great. Let me hire them because I trust you and you said they're good. And honestly, that's still how my business largely functions. People do sometimes find me through my website through like Google. Occasionally people find me through social media and then engage with a podcast or follow me on social media for a really long time and eventually get on my email list and those sorts of things. But for the most part, 90 % of my business is through word of mouth and referral. It has nothing to do with social media. And yet, there I am feeling so scared. What if I step away? It's that like FOMO, right? Which is what social media is designed to do. Yeah, it's me to do that. So like, I don't know. I've been thinking about this for a long time and here I am still feeling this urge, this pull to show up on all the, be in all the places. But this election has sort of, think, maybe unlocked something for me. And I am just like, I feel done. I feel done with the attention economy. I feel done with supporting the Bezos and the Musks and the Zuckerbergs of the world, the Zucks and Musks of the world. And what does it look like for me to approach things differently? And so like, I've already been off Twitter. refuse to call it that other name, as soon as that guy took over, I was gone. So I've been off of that for a while now anyway, but I have been a heavy threads user and I'm on the Instagram, I'm on TikTok
Taina Brown: Did you just say on the Instagram?
Becky Mollenkamp: I don't think I did, but as I said it, I sort of felt like it might've sounded like that. Just to be clear, I didn't, if I did, I didn't mean to, cause I know it's not the Instagram, it's just Instagram. I'm on YouTube, where else am I? Substack, LinkedIn, like I'm on all the places.
Taina Brown: Bluesky
Becky Mollenkamp: Well, that's the new one. So, yeah, I'm re-evaluating, but it's clearly not happening yet, but I am making some commitments. And I find the thing that helps me the most is when I publicly state something, then I feel more of like a...
Taina Brown: Yeah, there's accountability.
Becky Mollenkamp: Yeah, and like the potential embarrassment of saying I was going to leave and then being like the person who's like threatening to leave the party and then they're still there three hours later. Everybody's like, I thought you were going to leave. Totally, this party is lame. I'm going to be out of here any minute. And then they never go.
Taina Brown: You just wait.
Becky Mollenkamp: Right? I'll show you. So I have publicly declared my intention to leave threads and Instagram. I'm already I have been using Facebook, so I'm off that too, by the way, by the end of the year. And I may just even do it sooner. The only reason I'm taking my time is that piece of the business and wanting to make sure that people get like, hey, I just want to make sure you heard before I go. Like I want to tell you, I'm I'm over here now. Find me here. But yeah, it's a process and it's scary. It is scary. It's really scary, the FOMO piece. But I keep trying to go back to remembering most of my business doesn't come from those places anyway. So what am I really afraid of?
Taina Brown: I think also there's the parasocial element of social media, right? We feel that part of us that like wants to connect with other people gets some fulfillment from being on social media, even if the connection isn't deep, even if the connection isn't really real, you know, in terms of what a real connection is supposed to look like in terms of like two humans who see each other, hear each other and engage in an exchange, right? Like liking someone's post or resharing is some type of exchange, but I would argue it's not the type of connection that most of us are looking for when we get on social media. And so I think that also creates a level of FOMO of just like feeling like you're going to miss out on those connections if you're not logged on. So take us behind the veil. With, okay, let's say like with something like Instagram that was originally picture based and now it's video based because it has been trying to compete with TikTok for like ever. What, if you get off, like what does that mean exactly? And what does that process look like as a business owner?
Becky Mollenkamp: Right, I'm trying, such a good question, because I'm still trying to decide what that means, right? So I had originally thought I will just switch to a nine grid, as they call them, where you just basically put a static set of photos that look nice, like a curated group of like nine photos, get rid of everything else so that if somebody comes to your site, your Instagram profile, they'll just see those things. And basically those give them the message, hey, I'm not really here anymore right? And here's where you can find me and here's who I am and what I do. So there's still a presence, but like, it's not really active. That was what I had thought. And I put up my nine grid. I haven't finished. I started to kind of delete some of the old content, but I haven't. But and then I just was like, I think I switched either right before the election or right after. And then I just got more and more like, I don't even know that I want to do that because there's this part of me that wants to keep it because I like to look at Reels sometimes. My kid likes to look at Reels. We look at lot of like animal Reels and stuff sometimes together. And it's a sweet little moment where we laugh together at some of silly things we see. But like he has his own private, very private, just so people know, Instagram that he doesn't actually use. We update because there's this amazing thing called chat books, everyone that you have to have if you're a parent and don't do well at printing photos because it just automatically takes the photos.
Taina Brown: Yeah, takes from your feed. you select. We've used it before. Yeah. It's so good. Becky Mollenkamp: It's so great with a kid because you don't ever have to remember doing anything. Well, you have to remember to put the photos on. But beyond that, you have to do anything. So he's got like 90 friends and family that follow him. And then we do the chapbooks. But he has his own account. I don't need my account. But somehow my brain, right, starts to convince me. But and then I think, but what about those times that I'm on someone's podcast and they want me to share it? Or, you know, we have a podcast episode and I want to share the stories. But all of those things just keep me sucked in. And are they requirements? If I choose to be other places, I can share other places. There's not a requirement that I have to be on Instagram. And if someone wants me to be on their podcast only because they want to share with my Instagram audience, it's not a podcast I want to be on. Right. Like I don't want those kind of relationships. So I think what it means leaving it is I'm going to for Instagram in particular, I think I will actually just get rid of it. There is this other piece, though. I don't know. Here's this other piece though of you lose your you lose the rights to your username. I don't want somebody else.
Taina Brown: Yeah, that's what I was going to bring up. Would you want to keep it, but just deactivate it for a while?
Becky Mollenkamp: That's what's happening with a lot of people on X right now. There's this mass exodus from Twitter. I can't believe I used the other name. There's this mass exodus happening post-election, which I think is fantastic. Lots of even mainstream media are leaving. Celebrities are leaving there. And there's a big debate going on there. Do I close down my account? Do I just use my account less? Do I like put up a post and then leave it? And a lot of people are recommending that same thing. Don't do. Don't get rid of it. Don't delete it, just leave it, but don't use it and just put a note like, don't use this account anymore. Here's why you can find me. Because again, that username issue, we don't want, especially if you're a celebrity, I'm not a celebrity, but still there's this, but who knows who's out there that might be like, here's my opportunity. She's not looking at this anymore. She's declared that publicly. She's given up her username. I could just use that and start, who knows what? And that makes me nervous.
Taina Brown: But you can become one next year, I don't know.
Becky Mollenkamp: I think maybe ultimately then what I'll do is I'll leave that nine grid up, delete all the old content, which will take forever. But I want to actually delete all that old content. I'll probably leave the nine grid and put a note like, I don't use this anymore. And then delete it from my phone or at least delete my profile from my phone. I may keep the Instagram app for my kid because I still want to be able to do that. For now, eventually I'd like to even stop that. But Facebook, what it's looked like is I deleted all of my friendships on Facebook. So there was no new content really showing up for me, right? So that that would, there was no, nothing pulling me in. Yeah, which may be a good thing to do with Instagram too, is just delete everyone that I follow as well. Not as a personal slight, but the reason to do that is because then when you, if you do resist or lose temptation and get on, there's nothing to see, right? Because you're not following anyone.
Taina Brown: There's no feed. Yeah, that's a kind of a backdoor way to manage that. Yea
Becky Mollenkamp: Because they've made us addicts, right? So like we are addicted.
Taina Brown: Yeah, they really have.
Becky Mollenkamp: And so with Facebook, the reason I kept it is one marketplace because I still use marketplace. It's honestly now that Craigslist, it killed Craigslist and marketplace is really the best way to buy and sell things. And that is part of my effort in trying to consume less and purchase less new stuff and not use Amazon. So in that way, I really do like it. And two, there's like one or two Facebook groups I'm in that I just really value. actually get something valuable from those relationships in that space and that's the space they choose to be. There's no other way to be a part of those communities if I'm not there. So, but those I'm actually starting to get less and less. One of them is my kids, like a mom's group for the school, you know, like, and sometimes there's really valuable information posted there that's helpful. So I'll probably do the same thing. So Instagram and Facebook, I'll be there in name only, but not having anything there that pulls me in and not using it. X I've already left. TikTok's an interesting one. Because I love it, but I don't create content much. And I think the thing I want to free myself from there is to be able to say, if I enjoy this as a user, can I just allow myself to just enjoy it as a user and free myself from any responsibility, any feeling of guilt of not creating content? I don't know. I'm exploring that one.
Taina Brown: I think with TikTok also, like, it's been on the chopping block for a while, so who knows?
Becky Mollenkamp: I know, and my hope was actually kind of, I was kind of hopeful that that would happen, that they would just, but Trump has already promised that he will not enforce Biden's policy. Yeah, that's what he said. So I think it's sticking around.
Taina Brown: Really? Okay. Interesting. I am not a TikToker. I don't know if that's even a terminology. I may be aging myself by framing it that way, but, but I do enjoy getting on there.
Becky Mollenkamp: I feel like that's correct, but I'm older than you so don't listen to me.
Taina Brown: I also enjoy looking at TikTok shop sometimes. But that is dangerous.
Becky Mollenkamp: I do too, too much. my god is it ever
Taina Brown: That is so dangerous because there's literally something for everything. And so I feel like I've done a good job with my Instagram and my TikTok with curating my algorithm so that I don't really get too much of what I don't want to see. And years ago, I saw with TikTok, that's more recent, but with Instagram years ago, when I was beginning to curate my algorithm there, I was really focusing on content that is as much values aligned for me as possible. And so when I do get on Instagram, it does feel exhausting after a certain amount of time. I feel just like, the digital blue light exhaustion that happens from being on a device for too long. But in terms of the content, for the most part, feel like it's a lot of political social justice content, community-driven content, with also pleasure, joy type of content. And so there's this balance there that I usually find there is still the reality that it is addicting and it's created to be addicting. So even if I am just like, I'm just going to get on for a few minutes, two hours will go by. Those few minutes will turn into two hours. And then it'll just be like, it's 1 o'clock in the morning and I'm supposed to be sleeping. What the fuck am I doing? And so there is that reality that I am contending with. And so I thought it was hearing about your journey and your process for how to figure out, not just as an individual, but as a business owner, how to do a digital detox is just really fascinating to me. I went to a free webinar. Do you know Kelly Mosser?
Becky Mollenkamp: I know the name.
Taina Brown: Yeah, so she started out as, I mean, I guess she still is like a business slash marketing coach.
Becky Mollenkamp: Yeah, I thought she was a business coach.
Taina Brown: I'm still a part of her Hell Yes Guests podcast membership where she helps you figure out like what's like the one thing that you want to be known for, figuring out a narrative around that figuring out which podcast to pitch to, figuring out what your pitch looks like, tracking all of that. Like she's, my God, her stuff is always just like so good. But she has a new free webinar, semi-new. I think I went to it like months ago, maybe like six or seven months ago about how to create like a content capsule. And so it's the same idea of like, when you think about like a capsule wardrobe, like usually it's just like, a very small, limited number of pieces that are super high quality that you can just rely on and not, and then just accessorize from there. And so she uses that frame for creating a content capsule on Instagram, where it's basically just like that nine grid. And you figure out what pieces of content you want to focus on that highlight your expertise, highlight your offer, and highlight the value that you can add to someone's life. So that can look like testimonials or whatever. then creating an entire marketing strategy around the content capsule. And so when you were talking about creating the nine grid, that's where my mind went. But I think, obviously, her process is more in depth because it's not just about creating the content. It's like an entire marketing strategy for getting like basically similar to like if you were to create like a funnel, right, for getting new leads. But with the content capsule and the like, aka nine grid, I think about that and I'm just like, what? There's so much on my feed, like on my Instagram page. Not my feed, my Instagram quote unquote page, that it's just kind of all over the place. So like how, as you've been figuring out what that nine grid is going to look like, like how easy or how difficult has that been for you? All that to say. Right? What is that been like for you? Like, how do you decide what content to keep?
Becky Mollenkamp: Here's the thing, Taina, I think you and I have different addictions. I think we're both addicts, right? I think social media has made us all addicts, but like your drug of choice is Instagram, my drug of choice is not, mine has been Threads. Because I am such a word person, always have been.
Taina Brown: Yeah, you're the journalist.
Becky Mollenkamp: I mean, my background, like that's just who I am, like I am much better at writing than I am like the I hated Instagram from the start honestly and have mostly just been there because I felt like I needed to be because I it feels paralyzing where I'm like is this photo good enough what kind of photos like for a while I was just paying for stock photos and then it wasn't even genuine but like I feel like I have a boring life. I feel like I would take the same 12 photos every day or the same two photos every day, which is like me at my computer and me snuggling my kid. Anytime I tried to do photos, it's like all there is. So like it's just not it's never been my medium of choice. I like consuming Instagram far more than I like creating for Instagram. So it was it is not a challenge. It's been more of a challenge of like how do I show up on Instagram? Like it's always felt hard for me. So leaving it is actually going to be the easiest thing because it doesn't feel challenging. Other than the fear of like, will people no longer know who I am, right? That fear of being forgotten is actually bigger than fear of missing out. It's like this fear of being forgotten. So it's not hard for me. The nine grid was really easy. I just made something that looked kind of pretty, that kind of spoke to how I show up in the world. And I just thought about each of those things of like, I want to make sure I talk about who I am. I want to make sure I talk about like my offer. I want to make sure I talk about like how my work is different than other people. I want to talk about the podcast and other things that I do. I want to talk kind of about liberation in general and like my philosophy. So like I just came up with kind of these nine areas that I knew I wanted to talk about and each caption I made sure represented each of those things. I turned to my friend, Chet GPT for a little help with that too. And then edited them. And then I just put those up one at a time and I was like, and I actually think I really like it. It feels me, it feels nice. And I'm like, when I look at it, I think, that feels really good. Yeah, I to look at what I put up all the stuff below it I need to get rid of. But so that wasn't hard. That one's not hard for me. TikTok is another one where it's like, I really prefer it as a consumer than a creator. So it's not super challenging other than feeling this like, I think for TikTok, it's more of this fear of missing out. Am I missing out on a space where I should be, you know, where, because it's like the cool space or whatever. But then I have to be honest with myself. I remember my clients, I work with people who are primarily in their forties. They're not really showing up that much on TikTok as like they're there as consumers. But for TikTok shop, if I was selling a product, then I would be more concerned, I think about Instagram and TikTok for the work I do and the clients I work with. I don't feel like I'm really missing the boat there. The area for me again has been, used to be Twitter for a long time, was my drug of choice. Then it went away and I just floundered amongst all these other kind of places because it had been so bad for so, like, it had really changed a lot for me. And so then it was like, all right, I'm trying all these other places. And then when threads came along, I was like, baby, we're back. Because it felt like the old Twitter and I loved it. And now there's Bluesky. So this is right now my current like, okay, what do I do? But here's what I'm feeling. Bluesky for now, and that's a huge, huge caveat, feels so much more aligned values-wise for me than threads. I have a lot more followers on threads. have, well, it's down now because I've announced I'm leaving, but I was at 20,000 followers at one point. I've never had a following like that anywhere. It is hard to say I'm going to leave 20,000 followers. That seems illogical to move to a platform where I had none. And now I think I'm getting near a thousand, a thousand, right? Instagram, I've just never been able to break beyond much beyond 3000, probably because I don't engage with it. So like, that's another reason that's easier. But threads, I'm like, this is a challenge. Walking my talk with my what feels values like values alignment. It's hard because I'm like, that's a lot of people to be leaving behind because of threads. I made, you know, several thousand dollars this summer I wouldn't have otherwise made through my influencer marketing, right? I don't have that same platform when I go to blue sky. And yet I really feel like I want to leave threads one because they have throttled political discussion. I don't want to be in a space that isn't welcoming, encouraging, you know, home to political discussion. They have also been very clear that with that kind of discussion that they are very interested in censoring a lot of topics that I care about and the ways that I would want to show up and not censoring and allowing and platforming a lot of voices that are really harmful. It has become a toxic place. It's become X and I can't be in that space and I need to go. So blue sky is different because it's not algorithmic in its nature. So they are not doing all of that. Now that's again, all of this is caveated with for now because I don't know what their plans are eventually, but right now they're blocking people that are using hate speech. They're stopping people from, I just saw a post this morning of somebody saying that they got blocked on blue sky because they provided biological information about men and women. We all know what that's coded for. Right? And they were blocked. That information doesn't, isn't it being allowed in that space? They're not platforming those voices. So right now it feels like a really lovely echo chamber, if you will. And I don't mind being in an echo chamber. I just shared this morning. I'm like, I like an echo chamber because I love my safety and my peace. And so for now it feels good. So I'm going to allow myself that platform and that will probably be my primary platform. It'll probably be my only content creation platform beyond YouTube and Substack, which I don't look at it as social media as much as I think of those as more like SEO. So I think my plan for my digital, it's not even a detox, because to me detox sounds like I'm going to drink my green juice, but then I'll go back to drinking my soda. Like this is like I'm just rethinking how I want to use it in its entirety. So I sort of see myself leaving all of the social media other than Blue Sky. And honestly, I'm even considering leaving LinkedIn. Because I'm never going to be looking for a nine to five. I can't. I'm unemployable. And I just don't I don't just typically get clients through there. Or again, what it may look like is I will still be there, but I won't be sharing content. I haven't decided what that looks like. But really, I feel like my primary and maybe only content creation platform will be Blue Sky for as long as it remains values aligned. That's a huge if. And then the stuff that you know you and I are creating my other podcast the feminist founder stuff, all of that will be largely YouTube and Substack. And then, you know, you're managing and let's, here's another caveat. You're managing the social media for messy liberation. That stuff still exists, right?
Taina Brown: Yeah, we're still on Instagram and TikTok, YouTube, because, you know, that's where we put our recordings as well. So that's not going anywhere.
Becky Mollenkamp: So I think that's important to say because I'm not participating in the messy liberation social media on those platforms. I'm doing the YouTube and the shorts there, but I'm not doing the others. And so that's another thing that allows me some of that freedom to say I'm off those platforms because I'm not sharing that stuff there. You are.
Taina Brown: Yeah. And even when I share that stuff, like I don't engage. Like I don't have an engagement plan or an engagement strategy for that. I'm literally just sharing our content that Riverside, you know, cuts for us. And if people leave comments, then I will most of the time I engage with the comments. But it's not a strategy.
Becky Mollenkamp: Well, that's engagement then.
Taina Brown: I remember when my wife first started the Instagram for our dogs. She had an engagement strategy. And the strategy was you have to spend time every day engaging on other people's content in order to build your audience, right? So that's not what we're doing with messy liberation, TikTok, and Instagram. I'm just further engaging with people who are already engaging with our content. On that note, I do want to tell our listeners that like, after our post-election episode, I woke up two days later to a bunch of trolls on our Instagram, one of our Instagram reels from that episode.
Becky Mollenkamp: And they show up on YouTube as well.
Taina Brown: I don't check the YouTube ones. You handle those, so I appreciate that.
Becky Mollenkamp: I don't even do anything with them really other than I just see that they're there and I'm like quickly looking to see is this is this something I want to engage with meaning it's it's favorable or is it just rude and I'm just don't engage.
Taina Brown: Yeah. I mean, we haven't had too many trolls on Instagram or TikTok. There have been what I think are bot accounts that just leave comments that really don't make any sense. But two days after the election, I woke up and I saw all the troll comments and they just kept coming in all day. And I woke up that day. And I was like, I've got time, I've got energy, and I've got buttloads of pettiness in me that I have been holding onto because I've been trying to be a kind person for so long. So I just went at it. But then eventually at the end of the day, I had to call it quits because it was starting to mess with me. I'm looking at your 9th grid. It looks good. I'm wondering how you got some of the images. And this is just my lack of knowledge about social media and shit coming in here, like some of the images like overlap, not just the cross, but up and down as well and then split it up.
Becky Mollenkamp: I tell you because I didn't know either. You can create, you just create, you have to look the sizing up. There's all you do is search how to make a nine grid on Google and you'll find that, you just go into Canva, create one large graphic that, and then they even have like a grid that you can overlay onto your graphic to make sure everything's going where you want it in the boxes. And then you just get rid of that grid. But so you make one nice big image. I worked on it for a while just how I liked it and got it where I wanted. And then you have to take it into an app. I don't remember the name of the app, but I downloaded it. You can look online. There's apps that allow you to do it and it will just break it into those pieces for you. And then you can even just copy paste. Like I wrote my captions out, put them into my notes so that it was on my phone. I did all on my computer. I'd rather type on my computer. Put the captions into my phone like on notes and then you can once it breaks them up it will post it onto your Instagram for you because you have to post it reverse order right to get them to show up the right way so it takes all of the like don't know if I'm getting this right out of it for you I just post them one at a time and you just copy paste your caption in and it goes up so it was actually a lot once I figured it out and found this stuff online it was pretty easy to do because it's so common now there's a lot of tutorials out there on how to do it. So yeah, and thank you for looking. And I do like it it feels very me. The colors feel right. It sort of speaks to how I want to show up in the world and what I hope people get when they experience being in contact with me.
Taina Brown: Yeah, it does feel like you. Yeah, this geometric grid in the middle that's like really colorful, it reminds me of that, the painting like right behind you right now.
Becky Mollenkamp: And I'm happy with that. And I would like if there was a way to I mean, I don't know, I need to think about all of my platforms, like even LinkedIn, like what part of me just wants to go in and just like scrape things out of everywhere and just get rid of all of everything that's been there and just be like, this is my static profile. But then I also can see the benefit and old content being there for people who do want to scroll and do want to like look at what was there. So I don't know. You were talking about parasocial relationships earlier, and I just wanted to mention that social media for me, one of the things that's challenging about thinking about leaving is, yes, a lot of relationships are parasocial or they start that way or obvious, obviously. But I have met some of my favorite people through social media, and that is challenging. I wouldn't know you if not for social media. You know, and my best friend who I just visited in Iowa, we met through Twitter, like some of my best friends. And I saw another one of my good friends while I was there, also through Twitter, like so many people in my life. My husband came back into my life because of Facebook, like because we knew each other when we were young and then reconnected through Facebook. And now here we are with a kid and everything. So like that part also worries me because I am so introverted and like I get what you say about. It's not like healthy, it's not real relationships as we think of them. And I am such an introvert and so like being alone, even my time with my best friend this weekend, by the end of it, I was like, okay, I'm ready to be alone again. Like there was, we had three kids, two dogs, us, and one of the kids had friends over, like it was a lot. I like virtual friendships. Like I thrive on them and so they are and they're real to me, you know, as we have established you and I are friends. And thank God we had that conversation early. And that scares me too, because I do meet some of my favorite people and business friends and collaborators. So like I'm not getting clients, but there are other things that happen on social media that do benefit my business that do scare me a bit about leaving, which is why I'm as brave. I know if it's brave, but I'm not like Amelia Ruby in that I'm ready to leave everything, but I am rethinking how I use things. And so I will be trying to become sort of a singular platform person when it comes to social media. And then the other places will be just more like static is my thought. How about you? Like we've talked a lot about me and I know that's because you're sort of wanting you were just for anyone listening. The reason I'm talking more is because Taina before this said up, right?
Taina Brown: I said, I wanna pick your brain.
Becky Mollenkamp: But I want to be clear, it wasn't just me just talking, but I would love to know, like, where are your thoughts at with social media, with digital stuff in this space that we're in right now? Because I think for so many people who this election didn't go the way they wanted, there's a lot of, like, concern about how do I manage all of that in the years ahead? Where's your head at with that? I know you said you've well curated, but beyond that.
Taina Brown: Yeah, I have what I do feel like I've well curated. think, okay, so let's start with Facebook, right? The OG. I feel like with Facebook, I never really got into Twitter that much. I had an account, I still have an account, I just never log on. I can't even tell you what my password is, honestly. But with Facebook, like, I'm a very visual person. So anything that allows me to like, pictures or videos, like that's where I'm at. so during Donald's first presidency and first campaign run, I ended up having to block a lot of people or unfriend a lot of people on Facebook, some of which were family members. Gosh, even before that, think, I think when I was first coming out, I ended up, that's when I started to just have stricter boundaries on Facebook. So when it comes to Facebook, I am not on there a lot, but I do use Marketplace a lot because I have the same thought in terms of consumerism. It's just an easy way to potentially find what I need without one, having to pay an arm and a leg for it, and two, contributing to this cycle of just buying new things all the time. I've sold things on Facebook Marketplace that we need to get rid of, as opposed to throwing it in the trash. And so I am on Marketplace a lot. I'm not on the actual Facebook, on the actual Facebook a lot. But it is a way for me to just kind of keep a connection to family that I don't see very often or talk to very often. And so like I have so much extended family. And then I also have a lot of family on my dad's side that I don't really talk to or see that often. And the reason for that is I will say it's not, I mean obviously I'm choosing not to like connect with them more than I could probably, but I didn't grow up with my dad's side of the family. I didn't even know they existed until I was like 10. So by that point, a lot of my familial relationships had already formed. So trying to form new familial relationships was really weird. So there are a few family members on my dad's side of the family that I've been able to really connect with since then. And then the others, we're on a WhatsApp group chat together. And so sometimes I'm in there. And then I'm connected with some of them on Facebook. And it's just a way to keep up with what's going on in each other's lives without having to make a phone call or go for a visit. So I decided a while back to keep my Facebook for that reason, even though I don't engage a lot on there outside of Marketplace. With Instagram, that's definitely the crux of my addiction. And so that one is a bit harder for me because I love stories. I love the stories feature on Instagram. I don't really do a whole lot of reels because it just seems like too time consuming to plan that as a business owner. But stories are just these quick tidbits that you can just post and then they disappear after a while. I love watching other people's stories because it's a day in the life of. That's what it feels like to me. And I like to see what other people are up to and how they're living their lives. It's just, I like to know about other people and it's really interesting to me. And like you, I've also met a lot of really amazing people online, mostly on Instagram that have now become friends or collaborators that I wouldn't have met otherwise. And so, I haven't really decided what I'm going to do about Instagram. I'm on Bluesky, but I don't engage a whole lot there because it does feel like Twitter to me. And so it's harder for me to be motivated to engage on a platform like that. And then on LinkedIn, surprisingly enough, I just did three free workshops. It's the same content. I just gave it three different times over the past couple of weeks. And most of the people who signed up for that signed up through LinkedIn. Yeah, yeah. And then I'm also a part of some LinkedIn groups that I don't really know anyone in those groups, but I don't want to give them up. I also have an alumni group on Facebook that is really active. And I don't engage much in it, but as I've seen it pop up on my feed, I've seen how helpful it's been for other people. And so I don't want to give that up either. So I'm definitely not giving up LinkedIn. I'm definitely not giving up Facebook, although I'm not engaging on Facebook. I do engage on LinkedIn quite a bit. And then Instagram, I'm just not sure yet. The jury's still out on that one. And then Blue Sky, I want to get more into it. just, I feel like I just have to set up a practice of getting on Blue Sky, like schedule it.
Becky Mollenkamp: Do it.
Taina Brown: No, I do want to. I just forget about it. Like just forget that it's there.
Becky Mollenkamp: But see, you should only do it if you want to. But if you really do want to join me. The other piece of my digital detox should be mindful of time. I'm going to try and wind us down, but is watching less news because I have always like your wife. I'm a news junkie. I'm somebody who like is like the old lady who's got to watch her evening news with dinner. I know she watches morning news, but and I have really been culling that down and I accidentally caught some of the news this morning because my husband had left the TV on when he was getting ready for work and when I woke up it was on and I noticed I watched the first like five minutes of the Today Show or something and I could feel the difference in my body. I was like, that's why I am not watching news. the agitation, the tension that it immediately created in my body to hear the headlines and the way that they frame it on those shows of like breaking and overnight and then you know, controversial take a bubble. And I was like, God, like I can feel that. So I'm really going to continue to try to do my best in the coming years to just like really drastically limit my news intake. Cause I'm getting it by being on blue sky in small doses, along with wonderful things like I'm following somebody who has bird cameras and they just post videos of birds eating every day. It brings me joy, you know, like those kinds of things. I need that in equal or more amounts than the news hits. And I don't get that if I watch the evening news, it is just nonstop. So that's the other big thing I'm doing.
Taina Brown: I have one last question for you. I think what I'm calling this in my head is embracing digital minimalism.
Becky Mollenkamp: Well, speaking of there's a book by Cal Newport by the same name, Digital Digital Minimalism. Totally recommended. First time I tried to do a digital detox was inspired by that book. Talks a lot about the reason, like some of the things behind our addiction and all of that, which is helpful to read just to get it in your head. Another one I really, really, really recommend. And I don't usually recommend books by white men, but digital minimalism is one. The other, though, is Stolen Focus by Johan Hari. Or is it Yuval Hari? Anyway, it's so great because it's one of the only books I've ever written by a white man about any topic that actually talks about the systemic reasons for issues, right? And in this one is particularly about the attention economy and it is really, really well done. And it definitely will make you want to rethink not just social media, but everything that pulls at our attention. Well, and even like everything like it's so good because it talks about all of the ways that our attention is being commodified. And it's really, really good. So I'll recommend those two books, but sorry, go ahead. Because you're saying speaking of digital minimalism.
Taina Brown: So if there's a business owner listening to this, like, what, and they're like, where do I begin? Like, what's your advice? Like, what's your answer to that question? If you if you if you are a business owner, and you want to start your journey of embracing digital minimalism? What's the first step?
Becky Mollenkamp: I think one is auditing what you're using. Like, are all the places? Where are all the places you're showing up and how often? And like, just sort of doing a little audit of like, what is the amount of time this is taking me? How much am I putting into this? And equally along with that in that audit is not just how much time, but like energy. Because so Instagram, I don't spend a lot of time, but it depletes my energy at a much higher level. Whereas Blue Sky actually often gives me energy. So I think I would look at like the time and energy that you're putting in various places to sort of figure that out. Like what is, where am I showing up that's draining me the most energy, that's costing me the most time and all of that. And then evaluate what you actually enjoy. I think that's so important because I don't, like if I'm really, really honest, I don't enjoy Instagram. But I do really enjoy a text-based sort of system like a blue sky. So, okay, if I know that then if I am gonna try to reduce If I'm thinking about where do I want to actually move towards or spend my time, then that's, I'm not looking at the numbers. I'm going to look at what actually feels right and go there instead of getting focused on, but I have more followers here or, but more people use this or, this seems cooler. Right. Or the like what's trending or whatever. And just be honest with yourself because ultimately it's about like, how can I show up in a way that actually feels good?
Taina Brown: The vanity metrics and all of that. Yeah. And I think that's applicable to even if you don't have a business and you're just an individual wanting to embrace digital minimalism moving forward. Well, thank you for letting me pick your brain and talk about your process.
Becky Mollenkamp: Yes, as long as everyone recognizes that I'm clearly not an expert because I have yet to leave any of them. I did put up the nine grid on Instagram. That's as far as I've gotten in. And I announced on threads that I was leaving by the end of the year. So now I'm going to hold myself to it. But we'll see how much of it I actually do. it feels different this time. So I really think I am going to be reducing my consumption, I hope. So thanks for talking with me about it.
Taina Brown: Go check out Becky's 9 Grid. Thank you all for listening. If you have any additional tips or questions, let us know. MessyLiberation at gmail.com. Or you can leave a comment.
Becky Mollenkamp: Or you can share them on Instagram and Taina will see them, I won't.
Taina Brown : Yes I will see them and I will respond. And then I will share with Becky.