Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Real News For Real New Mexicans.
The Chile Wire with Abe Baldonado. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to The Chile Wire. I'm host Abenicio Baldonado and I am pleased to introduce my guest today, Mike and Kimberly Perry. Michael, Kimberly, good to see you all.
Kimberly Perry:Hi. Good to see you.
Abe Baldonado:Yeah. Thank
Michael Perry:you It's for good to be
Abe Baldonado:Yeah. Of course. So I I just wanna open it up. You all are from Roswell, New Mexico. You all have worked in wildlife habitat conservation for years.
Abe Baldonado:Michael, you have a long history, and I I I wonder how you do it. You've been a officer of the law. You've worked at the state land office, and you've done a lot of work in habitat management and conservation. But would love for you all to share just a little bit more about yourselves, and we'll jump into some deeper conversation on some of the conservation efforts here in New Mexico. But feel free whoever wants to go first.
Kimberly Perry:Go ahead, baby.
Michael Perry:Well, I I I don't think I'd be successful in any of that stuff if I didn't have a good life. Right?
Abe Baldonado:Did she pay you to say that before we got into She did not pay me
Michael Perry:to say that. It's probably gonna I gonna see if I can have her buy me lunch today, but There
Abe Baldonado:we go.
Michael Perry:Don't think that'll work. But we'll So, you know, I've gotta, I've had a, I've been blessed with a good life, raised good family, good life, graduated from Roswell High School, Met the love of my life in high school. We dated a little bit in high school, then got back together in college, and we've been tearing it up ever since. But we both went to Roswell, went to New Mexico State, had a great time there, a really good time there. Got out of there about 1995 with a Bachelor's in Wildlife Management and a minor in Criminal Justice, then got hired on immediately with the Department of Game and Fish.
Michael Perry:So, I started with the Department of Game and Fish in, actually October 1995. And shortly thereafter, we had our our son, Colton, in, right at the December. So, the the only bad part I have about that time frame in my life is right after we had our son, Colton, I got I had to go to the academy for sixteen weeks. So, was kind of on lockdown up there. That wasn't real fun.
Michael Perry:But I got home and Colton already was had a hair or two. Right?
Kimberly Perry:Maybe two or
Michael Perry:two. Maybe two.
Abe Baldonado:Yeah. Story here. My dad got deployed to Desert Storm a few weeks after I was born and was gone for almost two years, a little over a year and a half, somewhere around there. And so when I came back, he had never seen me, and I had no idea who he was. Wow.
Kimberly Perry:That's on
Michael Perry:a knuckle bump. Yeah. Yeah.
Kimberly Perry:That's a little more severe. He at least got to come home on Thursday evenings and stay till Sunday.
Abe Baldonado:So
Michael Perry:It wasn't that bad. I'll I say that, though. But I you know, when I was at the academy, I told they said so, you know, they had a little of this background, and there was a couple of girls that were in the class. And I I remember you're supposed to be there, and everybody's a little tense. We're all 23 year olds in the police academy.
Michael Perry:And I said, well, my my son was born, you know, three days ago, and you could hear the girls go, oh. I thought, well, don't get me emotional. But it it was a tough time in our life. And the the funny thing about being employed by the department of Game of Fish right there, back then, it was it was they were a little harder on you. It was a different day.
Michael Perry:It was a different time. And I was from Southern New Mexico, and all my roots were in the southern part of the state. So I guess, to give me a different perspective, they stationed me to Cuesta. So, I went from being a Southern New Mexico kid to, doing my rookie training in Cuesta, which was a cult not a culture shock, but it was different. Yeah.
Michael Perry:It was a different experience, a different set of circumstances. But and, for that reason, you know, we were we didn't make much money back then. So I was living at the Red River Hatchery and Kim actually stayed behind in Roswell because I didn't want her up there in Quest. It was a little rough. I mean, it wasn't rough.
Michael Perry:It was rough living because we just didn't have any money. Yeah. It was just a hard life. And I didn't want want my wife exposed to that because I was gone a lot training and doing that kind of thing. They worked us pretty hard back then.
Michael Perry:It was great. But then we got stationed to Hobbs, actually, and that's really where we started our life, in in Lea County and Hobbs and being the Gay Warren there and meeting the people and, you know, being exposed to the oil and gas community that was a lifeline of New Mexico essentially, not so much then. I guess it was a little bit depressed. Right?
Kimberly Perry:It was a little depressed.
Michael Perry:Hobbs wasn't, booming then So at all by any
Abe Baldonado:They hadn't struck that black gold in the Permian just yet.
Michael Perry:Not yet.
Kimberly Perry:Or they may have and then it fell through and then it's back again.
Michael Perry:But It comes and goes, and at that time, it it it it went. Yeah. But we were there, and we really enjoyed it. And from there, we went to Carlsbad, and then Roswell, I got promoted district sergeant. And Kim was actually always wanted to be a stay at home mom because we really believed the best thing we could be was great parents.
Michael Perry:Mhmm. If you're really not a good parent, what are you really doing in life? I mean, we both came from broken homes, so we thought the best thing we could do is be there for our child. And I I gotta commit it to her because she said, I'm I'm gonna stay at home, and I'm like, I'm gonna raise our kid. And so I was out on the landscapes doing my thing as a game warden and, you know, coming home, checking in.
Michael Perry:And
Kimberly Perry:I I did. I did win, like, housewife of the year with the Game and Fish department one year because I was really good at answering the phone and taking good messages and and getting them out to him in the field. So that was quite the honor.
Michael Perry:We're still waiting for that plaque from him.
Kimberly Perry:Yeah. You know? But being a mom was the best job that I ever had, and I'm glad that I decided to be a stay at home mom until he started school. When he was home kindergarten, but when he started first grade is when I went to work.
Michael Perry:It it was a good time in our life, and I guess we'd look it back on it like it was rough. It was hard. We didn't have any money. All we had was us, but it was the good old days. Yeah.
Michael Perry:It really was a good
Abe Baldonado:old need much.
Michael Perry:We No. We really didn't need much.
Kimberly Perry:Yeah. We ate a lot of spaghetti and a lot of, baked beans
Abe Baldonado:and tofu beans,
Kimberly Perry:so that was good.
Michael Perry:I remember when I got hired with the Game and Fish department, my dad was a teacher. And, he said, you know, son, I I can't believe you you made it through college and you managed to pick the only profession that paid less than a teacher. About that,
Abe Baldonado:Dev. Add to one up you. Well,
Michael Perry:it's for the love of the game, right? I mean, I always wanted to be outdoors working with that resource. One of my granddads worked in natural resources and actually worked at the game department. So it it gave me a foundation of what I really, really like to do. And the wildlife law enforcement was my gig.
Michael Perry:That was my thing. I loved it. I loved to be around that element, other law enforcement officers. There was a brotherhood, a camaraderie. It's a family.
Michael Perry:And it was it was I wouldn't trade those years for the world. I mean, it was it was good. It was a little tough on the home life because we worked all the time back then. Yeah. I mean, we literally worked all the time, and I don't wanna I don't wanna make it sound like we worked harder than anybody else because the generation before us worked amazingly hard.
Michael Perry:I mean,
Abe Baldonado:those guys My grandparents were the hardest workers ever.
Kimberly Perry:Well, and if he wasn't working, he was hunting. So, I mean, he just blames it all on the job, but there was
Abe Baldonado:a there
Kimberly Perry:was a little bit of fun in there.
Michael Perry:I mean, times are different. Right? But I don't think there's a true understanding of what our grandparents or what our parents, how hard they worked back in the day to give us the things that we have or the opportunities that we have. Yeah. And I that's one of the reasons I I've really gotten into working on landscape projects or habitat projects because we really owe it to the next generation to take care of the landscapes right now.
Abe Baldonado:It better than we found it. Absolutely.
Michael Perry:Something now. Absolutely. Gotta leave it better than we found it. And it's just doing the little things like picking up a water bottle sometimes on the side of the road. But, I mean, those are small scale things, but we we just need to get better on landscape management.
Michael Perry:I think I think that's what I'm going to bring to the table on this. My resume has a lot of years doing great things with habitat, watershed restoration, large scale mesquite sprays. Just wherever we went, we tried to do the best thing for the landscape and the people that use the land. Yeah. So it was a it was a great great time for me at the game department.
Michael Perry:And where I finished up, I actually finished up in Santa Fe. I was a major of the south half of the state. And to all you guys that really think that state government makes sense, sometimes it doesn't. Right? So I was I was major of the south
Abe Baldonado:half former state employee, I can't agree more.
Michael Perry:There you go. I can say that because I did it for twenty five years, but I was a major of the south half of the state, But they needed me to live in Santa Fe, so it was a little different world. I didn't like that, really, because I I wanted to be with my people, my my group, wanted to lead the folks in the field, but I had to do it from Santa Fe. And it was a little different, but we all adjusted. It was it was a good thing.
Michael Perry:Absolutely.
Abe Baldonado:Well, Michael, I'm gonna say first that I'm envious of you because you had an unfair advantage being a game warden. So when you went out hunting, you knew all the great spots. Well,
Kimberly Perry:he did. So People still call him today and ask him for the hunting spots. It's insane.
Abe Baldonado:Alright. So if y'all are avid hunters out there, some of my family, my dad, you know, Michael, you're gonna tell us where to go.
Michael Perry:I can tell you, but I can I can tell you the good hunting spots, it's like a it's like a good bakery, man? They come and go. I mean, even though it's a it's a good hunting spot this year, it may not be three years
Abe Baldonado:That's right.
Michael Perry:Down the line. But the reason for that is is the managing of the landscape. Absolutely. Managing of the habitat. Everything.
Michael Perry:The watershed, rainfall, snowfall. There's a lot of things that affect the habitat that affect the wildlife indices of this state. And I don't think that's what people understand. They sometimes just say, well, there's, you know, there's no deer here. Well, there's a reason why there's no deer here, and it's because it didn't rain for the last two years.
Michael Perry:Our font crop was crazy. Predation's up. And all those have, effects on deer hunting down the road. I mean, when you go when you go hunting, you're not hunting last year's fawn. You're hunting three years ago fawn, two years ago fawn.
Michael Perry:So it it really had to be good a couple years ago for you to have good hunting if it's a large creature nowadays. You know? I mean, birds are different. You know, they fly all over and you get a good rain, you're on quail. You're gonna have good quail hunting six months from now, but it's not that it's not the king case with big game.
Michael Perry:You really gotta take care of the landscape's long range. And that's one thing that I really wanna get back to and is is taking care of that. We could go a bunch of different directions with those kind of conversations, but, I'll I'll end I'll end that one without I after twenty two years with the Game and Fish Department, I got the opportunity to to jump over to the state land office as assistant commissioner. And I was over the field division. I absolutely loved it.
Michael Perry:And even though I was in, the game department for as long as I was and we all have degrees in wildlife management, I really felt like I got to utilize my my degree more at the state land office than I did the game and fish department. I really do, and I still feel that way. We got to work on large scale projects that really did benefit wildlife, but it was directly because it benefited the habitat.
Abe Baldonado:Absolutely. So, Michael, on that note, where do you see the the state land office plays a pivotal role in our natural resources on state lands in New Mexico. Where do you see opportunities with that office and opportunities for our natural resources, moving forward? Because I think, you talked about landscape management. We've seen some of the most disastrous wildfires.
Abe Baldonado:A lot of that has contributed to lack of forest maintenance. And, you know, I know a lot of people say forest thinning is bad. In fact, that's my grandpa would argue with you. He was a logger. Forest thinning was healthy.
Abe Baldonado:It helped prevent wildfires. Unfortunately, we see that now there's a lot of dead debris in our forest that are hubs for just huge fires to just really explode and take off. My family included in the Hermit's Peak Half Canyon fire. That was one of the reasons as well is because it that forest had just been neglected over the last few years. And, you know, we put loggers out of business in New Mexico, my grandfather being one of them.
Abe Baldonado:But where do you I I I believe there's a lot of opportunities ahead for our state lands, even our federal lands. But, you know, where do you see the direction of state land office going? And where's where do you think are some opportunities? And then also, gotta ask, where do you think are some shortfalls that we've seen? Because I think we've seen some shortfalls from the state land office.
Michael Perry:Well, I think when you're talking about managing landscapes, either federal or state, I think one thing we need to start doing is looking more towards a conservation concept, a conservation mindset, because I think the past administrations have been more of a preservation mindset. Yeah. So, if you preserve things, that's non use. If you conserve things, it's the wise use of natural resources. And if you're going to use them wisely, that's when you have to engage in timber management.
Michael Perry:That's when you've got to engage in watershed management. That's when you've to do large scale mesquite sprays in Southern New Mexico. Yeah. Because we've got to decrease the woody vegetation that is increasing because of our I guess, ability to decrease fire Mhmm. As a natural regime that used to happen once every 20, maybe on a landscape or less on a forest.
Michael Perry:Now those Smokey Bear has done a very good job, which actually he came from the Capitan fire. I mean, Capitan's right in Southern New Mexico, but he's done a really good jar job at fire suppression. But in that, I think we have to learn that that hasn't been a good thing over time. It has not been a good thing over time. So I'll I'll switch to, you said, one the things that we've done wrong, and I can say on the federal landscape, and we've mirrored it a little bit on the state landscape, is if you look at the timber management, like you're talking about, we used to harvest timber quite a lot in in this state and many others.
Michael Perry:On Forest Service property alone in the nineteen nineties, they were averaging about 13,000,000,000 board feet of timber that was harvested yearly, and now we're down to about 3,000,000,000 board feet. That's not all to blame on just simply timber management. A lot of that hinges on what is the Endangered Species Act. Yeah. I remember in about '91 or '92, I was a college student in New Mexico State, and we went and listened to the Forest Service give a talk on the endangered species and the timber industry being shut down because of the spotted owl.
Michael Perry:And what they were trying to do is create old growth forest for the spotted owl to thrive and live. So in order to do that, they had to shut down the timber industry. What that did over the landscape over a long period of time is if you're not harvesting the underbrush, you're not harvesting trees, you're not allowing us to cut trees, All the trees grow. Yeah. And then a natural fire doesn't occur anymore.
Michael Perry:What happens is when a fire does occur from a lightning strike, it goes from tree to tree to tree instead of grass to around the tree, grass to around the tree, it doesn't get to clean up or rake or or clean up that bottom surface. So it just goes from tree to tree, and now we have catastrophic wildfires. And I I think if you look at what's happened in the last couple of years when you look at Rio Dulso or you look at Calf Canyon, our preservation mindset over the last thirty to forty years has actually increased the propensity for catastrophic wildfires. Absolutely. And then that's a resource that we don't get to use.
Michael Perry:So, all the fires that, all the wood or the timber that was standing that could have been utilized for timber production or to make, soundboard or something from some kind of use is gone, and it's a waste. And that's where I want to get away from is that preservation mindset. We need wilderness areas. We need to preserve, but we need to do it through a conservation prescription and manage the landscape professionally and and manage from it and use from it. You know, on on even when you talk about the Eastern Side of the state or even the southern the southern pockets of the state, if if fire doesn't go through those landscapes, we get a propensity of mosquito increase.
Michael Perry:And and now we're having we found out that now we're going in, and doing these large scale mosquito sprays. The BLM's done a great job. And then when I was assistant commissioner at the state land office, we bled that over and we started giving them money to start spraying state lands. And we were we were doing 10,000 acre mesquite sprays. The BLM in the South Southern Southeastern New Mexico out of Carlsbad and Roswell, they sprayed 1,300,000 acres, I think.
Michael Perry:And what that does, day one, is it it it really really hurts that Mesquite. Yeah. And it kills the Mesquite. But what it does is it allows Mesquite, which is really a water robber, it will help, it robs water, rainfall water, it rains groundwater, it rains anything that's a runoff, and it doesn't allow the grass species to grow. So over time, you get more and more and more mesquite, and you get less and less water that's used by natural elements like grass species.
Michael Perry:So it's it's a big problem, but we've learned how to correct it a little bit. Now the forest on timber harvest is is different. You know, you're really not spraying trees like that. But when you look at a forest, and Kim and I were talking about on the way over here, you can look at, you know, that client's corners areas. If all the trees are the same size and same diameter, that's not healthy.
Michael Perry:Yeah. That's that's not where wildlife lives. When you have what we call a monotypical environment where it's all the same, that's not where wildlife thrives. They thrive on the edge or they thrive in environments that are leveled, like you got 20 year old trees, 100 year old trees, you got sagebrush, you got mountain mahogany, four wing salt bush. You got all those things that grow in a canopy that's not 100%.
Michael Perry:And 100% is a lot of the forests that we're at now, where there's nothing even growing on the soil because there's a 100% canopy above it that's catching 90% of the rain, and it's shielding the soil from a 100% of the sunlight. I mean, grass can't grow Yeah. If there's not sun or water hitting it. And if you have too many trees, neither one of them can do their job.
Abe Baldonado:Yeah. So Michael, where do you see? So I actually have to go here because it's interesting. I think there's been this belief that people on the right or conserve people who identify as conservatives are not conservationists. And everything that I hear from you is that you're a conservationist.
Abe Baldonado:You believe in conservation. And, you know, I think we see a lot of environmental groups. You know, you you hear folks running if they're on the conservative side, you know, they start saying, oh, you're just you wanna harm the environment. That's not the case. I think that like you talked about, there's a a happy medium where you can serve, you don't preserve, but you also are wise with the and that's the word that you used.
Abe Baldonado:You were you're wise with how you use the resources. So in a state that where we rely predominantly on oil and gas, where do you see that relationship going? Because, you know, having worked for the New Mexico Oil and Gas Association, I've seen our our best industries being at the forefront of having those cons conversations about conservation and being involved. You know? I learned a lot.
Abe Baldonado:I never thought in my life I'd learned about the Lester Prairie chicken and the Doon Sagebrush lizard, but I have. But I know that those were all critical elements of conversation for the oil and gas industry to be here in New Mexico, and they understand that. So they they work closely with State Land Office, but there's always this attack on folks who defend oil and gas. But I think it's interesting because I'm sure you're a supporter of oil and gas, but you're also a conservationist. So how do the let's explain it to the people how that goes hand in hand because I think people can really learn a lot from this conversation about, hey.
Abe Baldonado:Oil and gas is healthy. It's good. We contemporary times, every the our modern life today, we owe it to oil and gas development because it's created the plastics that we use in hospitals. It's our luxuries and our necessities that make modern life the way it is. But there's also that, you know, it also gives a lot of money back to the state through GRT.
Abe Baldonado:But just curious to hear, you know, what you think about that relationship with oil and gas and conservation.
Michael Perry:Well, that you asked a lot of questions there and I'll you may have to give me back on point. Yes. I may scroll.
Abe Baldonado:I'll let you run with it. Yeah. I'll I'll go back and there's there's a piece there that of but ultimately, I guess, where do you see the relationship with oil and gas and conservation and including the the notion that people that lean more to the right are, you know, bad people. They they don't believe in environmental regulation that, you know, they're not conservationists. I I think that's not true.
Michael Perry:Well, we could take it from let's take it from an economic perspective first. So now I'm a county commissioner in Chavez County. I'm the vice chair, and I was placed by the National Association of Counties on the Public Lands Advisory Committee. So we're looking at at large scale projects, large scale things that have happened across The United States, from from county perspectives. And one of those things that is very, very near and dear to every county commissioner is a thing called gross receipts tax.
Michael Perry:And typically, that's derived from businesses. Right? Businesses that are making money off the landscapes, that buy things, that sell things, that we get gross receipts tax, and then the county provides road maintenance, they provide garbage pickup, fire, emergency. Those things have to happen. So, when when you have an attack, you said the word attack, sometimes that is a good word.
Michael Perry:Because when when I talked earlier about the, the Endangered Species Act, it was really kind of weaponized against the timber management industry. And when that timber management industry went south, because all of a sudden your grandfather couldn't cut trees anymore, then that was an economic loss to him. So he either he has got to find another place to live. And a lot of people that had to find another place to live, they took their kids with them and they took them out of that that rural environment. And if they're not there in that rural environment, then they're no longer buying tires from the mom and pop gas station down at the T Intersection.
Michael Perry:And they're not spending money at that grocery store down the road at the Under T Intersection. And pretty soon, those people are not there anymore. Yeah. And when they're not there, there's nothing to come back to. None of your None of the kids from the families like that will go back.
Michael Perry:Yeah. And that's what's happening with rural New Mexico is we have to get those businesses thriving, whatever they are, whether it's timber timber industry, whether it's the oil industry, whether it's livestock resources, whether it's it's, farming. We have to get those back, and we gotta be strong at those because that's what gives us the diversity. That's what brings us diversity. Because New Mexico is a beautiful, beautiful place, and I always called it a melting pot for a lot of different types, colors of people that there are, religions, races.
Michael Perry:It's a beautiful place. And it's some of it, the beauty comes from the diversity in the rural communities. Absolutely. But we're we've lost it. We've lost a lot of that.
Michael Perry:You can go look on the Eastern side of the state. There's no longer dry land farmers because of the soil bank There's that the federal government no longer the timber management industry because of maybe the Endangered Species Act, caused an unhealthy forest and it causes an unhealthy watershed. So those are problems that are associated with some of the decisions that we made back in the day. I think what we need to do and where it comes to fruition now is the evolutionary process of business and the evolutionary process of what we learned from what we did bad, and now we're going to learn and do something a little better, and we're going to conserve it a little bit better. And, well, I guess we could talk about the prairie chicken and the oil and gas industry and conservatism, but, I've actually did perform prairie chicken surveys every year of my career for twenty two years.
Michael Perry:I would do the same surveys in the same locations at the same places, and and I loved it. I absolutely that's what I do. I love to be outdoors, but, I actually hunted prairie chickens when I was a younger kid. I really was. I've actually shot a prairie chicken.
Michael Perry:They don't taste very good.
Abe Baldonado:I was I've always asked. I never met anyone who's actually eating one and I'm like, it taste good?
Michael Perry:They say you know, they say everything tastes like chicken. They don't. I don't think it tastes very good, but, so I'm not an advocate for hunting prairie chickens because they're they're just not a tasty critter. But when I saw the surveys over over my whole career, there was times when the population ebbed and there was times when it flowed, higher and low numbers. A lot of that, though, dealt with predation, and the major factor was was rainfall.
Michael Perry:Yeah. If you looked at some of those rainfall pictures of where the drought was, it very much relates to where the the numbers have gone down with Prairie Chickens. So did oil and gas have a a contributing factor? I'm sure it did. Did grazing have a contributing factor?
Michael Perry:Sure it did. Yeah. But only on those years where we just didn't get the rainfall that we should have. And we had some drought years. We came off of the nineties, eighties and nineties, some of the best rain years ever ever recorded.
Michael Perry:We had lots of deer, lots of rabbits. When's the last time you saw a rabbit running around anywhere in this state? It's not because, we made management decisions against rabbits. It's because there's a high propensity for predators right now, and the landscape has changed to where it's not favorable for rabbits anymore in some parts of the state. They knew that was This is a challenge to everybody out here watching this.
Michael Perry:Go around and look for some rabbits nowadays, and then we'll talk about what's going on on the hands on the landscape and try to get them back. But when you talk about all those things that are business factors, that directly affects us. I don't think people understand the true value of oil and gas in this state. Mhmm. It's been claimed as, maybe a dirty industry.
Michael Perry:And there is hard labor. There's a good money that comes from those dirty hands that do that hard labor. And we absolutely have to have them because this state depends on it. Everything you have, everything we have here was built on the backs of oil and gas. And and it was also built on the backs of the oil and gas taxes Yeah.
Michael Perry:That we all live on. And I don't think people understand that. I think last year and I'll I'll take it back. When I was assistant commissioner, we used to throw out the term all the time that oil and gas directly paid $1,800,000 a day to education. Yep.
Michael Perry:It went directly to the schools. $585,000,000 a year. That was nine years ago. Only thing you have to do now is times that by five. Yeah.
Michael Perry:That's what it brings. Just to education, I think it's 42, 44%
Abe Baldonado:Yeah.
Michael Perry:Of the sole education budget in this state. Is is that meaningful? Well, heck yeah. That's meaningful because that's paying for all teachers' salaries. Yeah.
Michael Perry:That's paying for
Abe Baldonado:all the new infrastructure.
Michael Perry:It's a huge it's a huge benefit to our economy. I don't see why people haven't seen that yet. Yeah. But so could the timber industry. Yeah.
Michael Perry:We could be making from the timber money from the timber industry. And those are things that we need to bring back. But oil and gas pays pays its fair share for sure. It's, $2,600,000,000 to education this year, I believe. And when some of the counterparts, on the other side of the aisle would say, you know, one of the things that really gets a trigger word for me is when people say, well, you need to pay your fair share.
Abe Baldonado:And What is your fair like, what is the fair share? Right? And I think most people that propose that know what the fair share is. Right. They just believe you should pay more.
Abe Baldonado:Okay. Well, what is that? You know? Because if you say, hey, I'm for flat taxes. Everyone pays 15%.
Abe Baldonado:Well, 15% of 1 million's a whole lot more than 15% of say 50,000. I'll let Kim
Michael Perry:expand on this a little bit because she's done the research that that I'm currently using for the a lot of the campaign stuff, but I think you would when you talk about your fair share, we really have to identify who is saying what is fair. Mhmm. Who defines fair?
Abe Baldonado:Right.
Michael Perry:Do you define fair? Do I define fair? Are we gonna let the legislature define what fair is? The governor's office define what fair is? I hope not.
Michael Perry:Because I don't think right now it is fair. And when we talk about fairness, you can talk about what the oil and gas industry is paying and what they're paying towards education. And then you can talk about what solar is paying towards education. Right. And maybe the federal subsidies that they get.
Michael Perry:And you talk about wind energy and what they're paying. And I would say that we need to redefine what fair share is. Right. And this is my hand off to this one over here
Kimberly Perry:because she's been researching. Yeah. He, you know, he was working out at a ranch in the middle of the Gila and calls me in the middle of the night, wakes me up, he's sitting around the fire, and he said, hey.
Michael Perry:I was I was, having some tea. I was having tea at the fire. Tea.
Kimberly Perry:Sure. And he just he wanted me to kinda look into a little bit about green energy and what their fair share is, what they're paying. And on an average, they're paying three to 6% where the oil industry is paying 20 to 25% in their in their royalty rates. The other thing that I found through doing that research that was a little alarming to me is the oil and gas industry has a reclamation fund. Mhmm.
Kimberly Perry:And I believe there's, like, $60,000,000 in it, and that's to plug abandoned wells
Abe Baldonado:wells. Yep.
Kimberly Perry:Clean them up. The the thing that the Democrats are yelling about is there's no money. The taxpayers are paying for these orphaned wells, and that's true.
Michael Perry:That's not true.
Kimberly Perry:That is absolutely not true. It's a lie.
Michael Perry:It's an absolute lie.
Kimberly Perry:That's where I got really concerned because green energy or the energy, wind, solar, they don't have a reclamation fund. So you look at those big wind turbines when you're driving down the highway, and if one of those companies goes belly up Yeah. Where are they gonna get the funds
Abe Baldonado:To take them down.
Kimberly Perry:To take those down? Yeah. And and where are they gonna put those when they take them down? So those are some of the things that we're learning more about as we're on this journey together, and it's it's to me, it's earth shattering news, and it it I would think that if people heard that, that they would, you know, want green energy to do better and be better as well. But we can't live without the oil and gas industry.
Kimberly Perry:Right. People think of it just as, monies for our schools, but they're not looking at all the petroleum based products
Abe Baldonado:that we use The pomade in my hair.
Kimberly Perry:Exactly. And
Michael Perry:and it looks good.
Kimberly Perry:Thank you. You know, say
Abe Baldonado:I paid them a lot of money to say that before the show just so
Michael Perry:we yelled out.
Kimberly Perry:But they say those things. And I would just like to see us women without our makeup, our hair, our purses, clothing. I mean, we would all be walking around naked essentially.
Abe Baldonado:Kimberly, I'm lay your way brought that up. When I worked at New Mexico Oil and Gas Association, I traveled around the state. I was able to speak to classrooms. I'm a former teacher, so it was really exciting to educate students about oil and gas and petroleum byproducts. And it was funny.
Abe Baldonado:I I would ask the girls, you know, how many of you love your makeup? They all raise their hand. I'm like, petroleum byproducts.
Kimberly Perry:Yep.
Abe Baldonado:How many of you guys like your Jordan shoes? All the guys lift their hands. I'm like, petroleum byproducts. And, you know, it's just one of those things. You know?
Abe Baldonado:If it's stretchy, if you love your stretchy pants, you love your stretchy shirts, well, guess what? There's some polyester in there that was derived from the petroleum byproducts.
Kimberly Perry:When you told them that?
Abe Baldonado:Oh, yeah. They were shocked. They didn't realize. And our fault. Right?
Michael Perry:Yeah. I I think that's our fault. It's it's the dirty little secret that
Abe Baldonado:nobody saw. Villainized it. And Mhmm. You know, in our schools, we've had some of our schools villainize oil and gas even though that's what's paying for those teachers and those textbooks, everything that's in that classroom. They're paying for that.
Abe Baldonado:And, you know, it's like, hey. Well, maybe we should educate folks on the industry and also about the jobs that exist. You know, I would love to see more homegrown New Mexico students going into petroleum engineering. They don't have to leave home. There's great jobs here.
Abe Baldonado:Yep. You don't even have to go into petroleum engineering. You can go into accounting. You can go into So many different realms that
Michael Perry:touch you're touching onto something that a lot of people don't do nowadays. And you can go a lot of different directions with this, but I don't think people do their own research anymore. I think they rely on people to tell them what's going on.
Abe Baldonado:And that's where
Michael Perry:They are. Who you're listening to.
Abe Baldonado:Yeah. Our schools have failed in that aspect. I I think we see now where our literacy rates are very low, but we're also not teaching children to look at primary sources, secondary sources, and being able to compare and contrast information. And to be able to identify misinformation, I think, has been problematic. But I think you're right, Michael.
Abe Baldonado:I think that, you know, today, people not even just children. I think it's just adults too. You know, oftentimes, we just take everything at face value. If it's on Facebook, it's real. If it's on Instagram, it's real.
Kimberly Perry:Right.
Abe Baldonado:And then it's like, well, what's the source? What's where's the where's the data? Where's the information that you can say backs this? And so it's one of those things where it's like, yeah. We need to do better.
Abe Baldonado:We need to get folks to say, hey. You should probably question this. You know? Just don't come to face. Absolutely.
Abe Baldonado:And, you know, I I'm glad you did the research on, you know, green energy. I'm not opposed. I think if New Mexico has an opportunity
Michael Perry:Absolutely.
Abe Baldonado:To be a leader at the forefront of energy across all landscapes, whether it's green energy, oil and gas, I mean, why not? Let's do it. Those are jobs. I mean, again and the funny story, and this is one thing, Kim, that I think you'll really enjoy is that I used to tell people, clean energy or green energy cannot exist without oil and gas
Kimberly Perry:anyway. Exactly.
Abe Baldonado:Materials for those wind propellers, for the solar Mhmm. Panels it's all derived from petroleum byproducts. And, you know, and if you wanna talk about the cleanest form of energy, it's nuclear. Yeah. I'm I'm gonna have some environmentalist watching right now.
Abe Baldonado:They're gonna start getting very cringey. Like, how can you say nuclear? Yeah. So but if you're talking about clean energy, it is one of the purest Well,
Kimberly Perry:what about the charging stations for those electric cars?
Michael Perry:Absolutely. Touched on to me, and I guess what we talk about, you look at over the fifty years in the evolution of the industry. Oil and gas was a lot dirtier back in the day. It was a lot there there was a lot probably a lot more deaths, a lot it was just a dirtier industry. And I say that from, from the standpoint of technology.
Michael Perry:Technology. But when you look at it now, it's a lot cleaner. It's produced a lot cleaner. The techniques, the things, the process that oil and gas has gone through to make the environment better than it was are tenfold. Are we there yet?
Michael Perry:No. But is there room for more Absolutely. There is. But it's a scale that's gotten a lot better and we've learned over time. And I think the great thing about this is we're still learning and we're still striving to make it better and more efficient energy and cleaner because is clean energy really clean?
Michael Perry:I mean, there's I I look at the economics of it, like I said, from a county commissioner perspective, all the money that comes in from oil and gas, it can't be replaced right now. Kim and I were in Las Cruces, and we were talking to some college students, and one of them asked, how are you gonna replace the financials when we go away from oil and gas like we're supposed to by 2035, 2050? How are we gonna reproduce that money off the state land? And I've just said quite simply, you have to understand that the state land office is supposed to do two things. And that's make money off of the landscapes to pay for schools.
Michael Perry:That's number one. And the second thing is to take care of the landscape for future generations. That's number two. And that's why I think conservation is so important because that's exactly what conservation is.
Abe Baldonado:Yeah. The wise use of the natural resources.
Michael Perry:The wise use of natural resources. That doesn't mean we can't use this oil and gas country, make money from it, and then go back and remediate it. That's what we're trying to do. That's what the reclamation fund is. That's what the reclamation fund is.
Michael Perry:But state government sweeps that reclamation fund every year, and that's the dirty little secret. Yeah. Is there's 50 to $60,000,000 a year that's swept and gone into the general fund because it's not being spent.
Abe Baldonado:Universal childcare, folks. Yeah. There you go. Straight to you, Chris. The reclamation fund.
Michael Perry:And I would encourage anybody watching this, just like we would tell our 30 year old son, do your own research. Yeah. Prove that I'm not being accurate about this. Do your own research and find out where the money comes from and what it's going for. So, to answer the question that the the the person asked me in Las Cruces is how do you how do you make up for that money when oil and gas goes away by 2,050?
Michael Perry:You can't.
Abe Baldonado:Yeah. You just can't.
Michael Perry:The State Land Office can't do it because you could develop every spot of wind energy in this state and it wouldn't be 10% of what oil and gas brings in a year. Right now, as like I said, soil, wind energy and solar is bringing in 10,000,000 on state land. Oil and gas, 2,600,000,000.0. Billion. Yep.
Michael Perry:But but billion. So, it's gonna be very, very hard to replace that unless we find some kind of other resource. And that's not to say that people aren't exploring that, but that's why you gotta have the small businesses out there doing that. Right. You gotta have them on the landscapes.
Michael Perry:They gotta be able to go out there and look for different sources of energy.
Abe Baldonado:And we're a hard state to do business in. Oh, And so it's very difficult to diversify our economy when we're not pro business, and that's just where we're at right now. I mean, look at in Las Cruces, I'm sure y'all heard a lot about the Jupiter project
Kimberly Perry:Yes.
Abe Baldonado:For data centers. I mean, that's a great opportunity for employment, for, you know, New Mexico to be as a hub for data centers. Like, this is awesome.
Michael Perry:But you know what? One thing I'll say about some some of those things you're bringing up is is now that I'm a county commissioner, one of the first things when I look at projects is, did you go talk to your county commissioners about this? Did you go talk to your city councilors about this? Because those are the people that have the real time experience in their social group, in their city, in their county that can really contribute to this. And a lot of times, those projects aren't included in the County Commissioner's side of it.
Michael Perry:Yeah. And one of them that that a a couple of older ladies asked me about when I was at a forum in Las Cruces is there's a there's a, a landslide going on down in Dona Ana County between one of the Indian tribes, one of the Native American tribes, and and the state land office. It it doesn't sound like it's a it's a very transparent exchange at this point. Yeah. And they were actually kinda getting on me for it.
Michael Perry:I said, hold on, hold on. I'm not the state land commissioner. You have a state land commissioner. Yeah. You need to visit with your current state land office about this.
Michael Perry:And they were extremely upset that this land was being traded out And that and I said, well, hold on. I'm not gonna defend a state land office because I don't know the score. I don't know what's going on right now. But it could be a good trade. They could be trading good property, ten secondtions, for 300 acres.
Michael Perry:And the lady said, Well, I don't That hasn't happened. And I said, Well, that's a transparent thing that should happen. And that should be said on the beginning of the conversation, not the ending. And it should go through the city, councilors. It should go through the county commission.
Michael Perry:It should all be presented so everybody's transparent about what's going on. And I don't think that's happened. I know the state land commissioner can trade it out and doesn't need anybody. That's not the point. The point is if you really truly care about the social construct of of the county and the city, you need to go present it to the people.
Michael Perry:And they should have a weigh in and a buy in on those decisions. It shouldn't just be force fed to you. I don't think that's a good answer. I mean, I don't think that's a good way to do things. The other thing I wanted to add about this is there was three older ladies there, and they said, you know, we really appreciate you.
Michael Perry:We really like your platform. You seem like a well rounded, a knowledgeable individual, and you seem like you would do a very good job as commissioner at the state land office. But? But we're Democrat. We're not gonna vote for you.
Abe Baldonado:Wow. And
Michael Perry:I was like, it it's not a Democrat Republican issue. It
Abe Baldonado:shouldn't be. It should be about solutions.
Michael Perry:No. Has it has zero to do with this. Leave politics out of this. This is about taking care of the natural resources. This is about conservation.
Michael Perry:This is about wise use. This is about all those things that your grandfather did on the landscapes that he's been barred from doing nowadays. Those folks used to use the resources wisely. Is cases where there's an abusive lessee? Yes.
Michael Perry:But it's the department's duty. The department needs to deal with that.
Abe Baldonado:Yeah.
Michael Perry:Not the public. The department needs to go talk to their lessee and get them in check, write a better contract, evolve the system. That's what we all need to do. We need to get a little bit better. And I think it's we're at a point where everybody's dug in their little fox hole.
Michael Perry:They're throwing grenades and pointing at people. I'm not throwing any grenades at anybody, and I'm not pointing at anybody. I'm just telling the folks, this this is our wheelhouse. This is what I do. This is what I've done.
Michael Perry:I love being outdoors. I love taking care of natural resources. From the county commission perspective, I learned a lot of things about how we need to keep businesses going because it makes other economies flourish. Yeah. It makes the people better.
Michael Perry:That's what we need to do is we need to make everybody better. I'm not trying to make any anybody worse. I'm just trying to show folks that the knowledge that I have, I think, is gonna go a long way for this resource. And we have a beautiful resource in this state, 9,000,000 surface acres of state land that I just cannot wait to get my hands on. Literally, I cannot wait to get my hands on.
Abe Baldonado:Well, you'll have gorgeous resources. I mean, New Mexico's beauty runs deep.
Michael Perry:It is.
Abe Baldonado:You know, have you having grown up in Southern New Mexico, but Quest is gorgeous. It is beautiful. The landscape up there is Not
Michael Perry:through my small town.
Abe Baldonado:It's I mean, we're the start of the Rocky Mountains. I mean, it's it's gorgeous territory. My family hails from El Rito, New Mexico, so up in Northern New Mexico near the Southern Colorado border. But, Michael, I'm really excited. On that note, you're running for state land office commissioner.
Abe Baldonado:What do you envision for the future? I I I would really love to hear, you know, where you see that office going under your leadership and some of the day one tasks that you'd like to address.
Michael Perry:I think some of the day one tasks really are just increase some of the efficiencies. I've heard that the efficiencies are a little low right now. They used to be a little higher. What I could say that is a sticking point to that, and you can do your research, is eight years ago, 50% of the oil and gas produced in this state was on state land.
Abe Baldonado:Mhmm.
Michael Perry:And 50% was on Bureau of Land Management land. That's good because that's that's economic driver for us. We get 20%, 20 to 25% of the royalties on 50% of the production. Right? And then when the federal government does it, they're charging a 14%.
Abe Baldonado:But we get 40% of that 14, so we're making money both ways. Right? Yeah.
Michael Perry:New Mexico is doing good and making a lot of money. But here we are eight years later, the production on state land has decreased by 20%. So we're only getting 30% of that pie now Yeah. Because that 20% has shifted over to the federal government and on BLM property, and they're producing 70% of the production right now of oil and gas. And so what that means is we're getting a smaller piece of that pie economically.
Michael Perry:The the state land office has made lots of money off oil and gas. Every year, it makes more. But at this point, I guess what I'm saying with a 20% reduction of the production on state land, we're still making money. Anybody can do it. Right?
Michael Perry:Anybody can do that. I think some bad decisions have been made on on efficiencies.
Abe Baldonado:I was just about to ask you,
Michael Perry:you what kind And I think those efficiencies have been weaponized to a bit, and they're causing less and less use of, or less and less encouragement of producers to produce on state land. And it's really easy to go over 800 yards onto the BLM land, pay less of a royalty rate, and have less of a hassle. And who would have thought the federal government has less of a hassle in paperwork than the state land office right now? So, that's an efficiency that needs to be corrected, and I'll try to do that on day one. But I want to have more of an emphasis on the landscape projects.
Michael Perry:I want to have more of an emphasis on working with the Forest Service alongside those agencies to say, hey, this is a timber management issue right here. This is a catastrophic wildfire that's on the up the upside of Las Vegas, that if if the fire hits and the wind's blowing, Las Vegas is in trouble. We need to identify those areas and start working to manage and mitigate and minimize those catastrophes that have happened. And if you look at both of those fires that happened at Rio Doso and and and Las Vegas, they were both they were both upwind, man. Yeah.
Michael Perry:It's not rocket science. Anybody that haunts knows you wanna you wanna be wanna be hunting upwind. You don't wanna be downwind when you're hunting. And that's the same thing with fire. You don't wanna be downwind.
Michael Perry:So you look at every forest forested area that's on the up upside or upwind of of a city, and they're in trouble if we don't start doing some Absolutely. Some temper management. We have to do it. Yeah.
Abe Baldonado:And and also some responsibility. You know, I think a lot of the conversation with the Hermits Peak Calf Canyon fire is not holding the federal government under president Biden accountable because it's it was the worst time of year.
Kimberly Perry:It
Abe Baldonado:was. And they were running off a report that was almost ten years old. Weather outlook had changed significantly, but we know April in New Mexico.
Kimberly Perry:Windy.
Abe Baldonado:Windy and dry Dry. And just probably not the best time of year for a prescribed burn, and there was a failure there.
Michael Perry:There was there was a failure. And and you talked about the Biden administration, and I'm I'm certainly not gonna carry his water, and I'm certainly not gonna carry the Forest Service's water. I think what we all need to do, though, is take a step back and say, how can we all do better?
Abe Baldonado:And how can we not have this happen again?
Michael Perry:How can we how can we remediate this issue so it doesn't happen again? Because people lost a lot. When you look at Rio Doso, one of the first articles I read after Rio Doso burned and that it had at first normal rainfall and it flooded and we lost lots and lots of houses. Kim's been working with people trying to get them furniture for new houses. And that that didn't happen because of climate change, like the article said.
Abe Baldonado:Well, and they used that for the Hermits Peak cat And and fire it's like governments started to prescribe burn at the worst time of year. Like, this had nothing to do with climate change. Anyone with common sense would tell you it's windy.
Kimberly Perry:In an overgrown forest.
Abe Baldonado:In an overgrown forest. Yeah. You're gonna have a problem here. It's not
Michael Perry:climate change. So it's it's a topic I called I've coined it, should trademark it. Kim and I talked about putting it on my shirt. It's a term called emotionalism, in my opinion. And I think one side of the political spectrum, here I say it shouldn't be political, but a lot of folks like to use an emotional construct to get something done.
Michael Perry:It's an emotional issue. It's climate changing. We've got to save the seals. The polar caps are melting. And I would say, Do your research.
Michael Perry:Because every time something like that is said, you can Google it on your phone. Yeah. You can do the research on your phone and find out that for every study there are two or three that are on the other side of that study. And I would challenge you to do your own research and figure out what's going on. But what I'll say about that Rio doso fire is it was a horrible fire.
Michael Perry:It had a 100% canopy, which turned into a 100% watershed because now there's no canopy. And that's what catastrophic wildfire does. The difference is, I think, that and some of the Calf Canyon stuff is Rio Doso had two big canyons that were burnt very, very bad. And then when they get the average rainfall, it flooded. Yeah.
Michael Perry:And it's flooded four or five or six or so. I don't even know how many times
Abe Baldonado:it done. Topsoil is just so dangerous.
Michael Perry:So while there's no grass, there hasn't been grass species underneath those trees because of the 100% canopy for years. So you can't you can't blame that on anything other than human stupidity. Yeah. And that's we did that. And I think until we can step back and say, you know, there's some things that we could have done better.
Michael Perry:We could have done better. Not you. Not you, but there's some things that we all could have done better. And that's where we need to we need to get more in the center and say, let's let's rally around Las Vegas. Let's rally around places like Rio Dulso.
Michael Perry:Let's do better.
Abe Baldonado:Yeah. Let's be community. Mean, right.
Michael Perry:We're all New Mexicans, and we're all in this together. And if somehow we've lost that. Sometimes, I know it's hard during football season, right? Santa Fe doesn't like Southern New Mexico and Artesia doesn't like Roswell. But football's over.
Michael Perry:It just ended last week. Let's get back into loving each other and doing the right thing and have good old arguments like, what's better, green or red chili? Right?
Abe Baldonado:Absolutely. Which which do you prefer, red or green? We're on the chili wire, so I have to ask.
Kimberly Perry:I'm green. He's red.
Michael Perry:Oh, I'm red all
Abe Baldonado:day, baby. Awesome. Well, and Michael, you're you put it very nicely about a a portion of folks who you say uses the emotional appeal. Emotionalism. I I actually would say fear mongering.
Abe Baldonado:Yeah. I think a lot of it is fear mongering.
Michael Perry:But that's emotions. And
Abe Baldonado:it is emotions. But I think, you know, that sparking that fear and, you know, some of that fake outrage that we see right now has has been problematic, and it makes it very difficult to reason with. And so and I think it's great that you are telling people, let's come to the table and let's collaborate. Let's partner. Let's let's not point fingers about Yep.
Abe Baldonado:Pay. Have there have been some missed opportunities and there have been bad decisions, but how do we move forward? And and that's great. And I'm guessing Kimberly gave you that
Michael Perry:Oh, she did. Direction. Yeah. She's the she's the brains and the beauty. Oh
Kimberly Perry:my. That's
Michael Perry:not fair. Guy with a little bit of experience. Same.
Abe Baldonado:My my wife is the brains, the beauty, and the hair. Every I I have the hair. That's that's the only thing I have going for me is the hair. But any great idea I have, I can tell you stems from my wife.
Michael Perry:So I don't wanna blame this on state government, but I used to have pretty hair. I had a mullet for
Abe Baldonado:a state government before it could get me. So I was I was noticing it and I said, I think I should leave state government.
Kimberly Perry:You guys and your hair. We're just both very passionate about New Mexico. We love it. This is our home. We do not want to leave, but
Michael Perry:And our son left.
Kimberly Perry:And our son left. Yeah. And so many of his friends leave. You know, they they graduate high school. They go to college here.
Kimberly Perry:A lot of them do. But the second they graduate, they leave. They feel like there's nothing here for them. And I want them to come back. I want them to be here.
Kimberly Perry:I it's a beautiful state. We both love to hunt. We we love the outdoors. I mean, like you said, Northern New Mexico is just I mean, it's breathtaking. Yeah.
Kimberly Perry:And we can't keep doing the same thing and expecting change. We've we we really gotta put forth the effort and and make some changes.
Abe Baldonado:And and we have to encourage New Mexicans to be open minded about Yeah. Moving forward and doing something outside of the status quo because where has the status quo gotten us? It hasn't gotten us very far. In fact, it's actually
Michael Perry:set us
Abe Baldonado:back right now when we look, you know, and I'm sure you've all have heard it on the Chili Wire, but we talk about this all the time is that we're always first in everything bad and last in everything good. It's like, how do we how do we change that mindset?
Michael Perry:Because we don't have to
Abe Baldonado:be. Yeah.
Michael Perry:We need to get better recruitment in our in our our people because I think we're losing a lot of
Abe Baldonado:the good ones. Yeah, we're the greatest exporter
Michael Perry:of our people. We are. Are. And that's an issue. And I would encourage folks out there that are listening, why is that happening?
Michael Perry:Why is that? Do your own research and find out why are our youth leaving?
Kimberly Perry:Or, I mean, just a simple thing that how much money are we spending on our kids, on our students, and why are we last in education? If we have so much money coming in and we're spending so much on our students, why are we coming in last? I mean, there's just things that we need to look at as a whole.
Abe Baldonado:I get frustrated because I'm sure you all have heard this plenty of times about the legislature. Well, we're a poor state. We have people in poverty. I'm like We're not. We're not a poor state.
Abe Baldonado:We're not. Do we have people in poverty? Absolutely. Yeah. But poverty does not define you.
Abe Baldonado:And there are opportunities for our kids to be successful. To me, it's been a programmatic issue. We have not implemented those dollars correctly.
Kimberly Perry:Absolutely.
Abe Baldonado:And that to me is the biggest problem. And so, again, how do we push students to go into the energy industry? How do we encourage them to, you know, go back to their roots and go back into agriculture? And what's the incentive? There's not one because what they hear is, you know, agriculture is bad.
Abe Baldonado:Yeah. Environmental regulation is terrible. I see my parents struggling with it, just trying to manage the land. Why would I wanna deal with that when I can get a job somewhere else and live comfortably?
Michael Perry:Gotta tell you about, 2012, I started a little side business. It was a side business at that time called Wildlife and Habitat Prescriptions, where I was doing habitat restoration work on private on private landscapes. All the stuff that I was learning on learning from the state, I thought, man, there's a there's a niche here. I could do this on private landscapes and make a little money so I can buy a new camper or, you know Like Four wheeler. Buy miss Perry.
Michael Perry:Rifle. I mean, yeah. Well, I never got to buy her a pretty ring when I we were married. I mean, when we first got married, because I was a game warden on a really bad salary, so it took me a little time, but I finally got it done. But that was because of my my other side jobs.
Michael Perry:That wasn't because state government provided me all this money. It was because I saw that there was a niche for it. But when I see that niche and I see all the wonderful projects that I'm doing and I I I have done, and you can go look at my my land
Kimberly Perry:commission Really, on your Instagram page has
Michael Perry:some really good pictures. Love being outdoors. I love doing those projects, but I won't do them on public property. Yeah. We'll put a link up on our I mean, and I I won't do them.
Michael Perry:I'm I'm wanna be state land commissioner, so I can do them. But the process for a private contractor to do them on public ground is crazy. Yeah. And it's it's discouraging. And I think sometimes that's the game, is sometimes government has to really reassess and understand why are they discouraging good projects and good people from visiting the landscapes.
Michael Perry:Why do you do that? Yeah. Why are you literally burning people off of their off of the hillside now instead of letting them manage the land? It it it's beyond me. I don't see how we got to this stage, but I'd like to fix it somehow.
Michael Perry:Yeah. I'm not saying I know how, but I know I'm gonna try really, really hard to do it.
Abe Baldonado:Well, I'm certain you'll put the right people around you too to identify You gotta have a
Kimberly Perry:good side of it. Think he knows how because he's doing such a great job on these ranches that, they're selling for two to three times of what these guys bought them for.
Michael Perry:Two other entities. Just sold them.
Kimberly Perry:Yeah. He's he just told me yesterday, he was like, well, I'm just out I'm out two jobs now. And I said, well, quit doing such a good job. Yeah. Top security.
Michael Perry:They found a niche in me, and it it's making them money, which is okay. It's alright. Absolutely.
Abe Baldonado:Well, Michael, really excited to see your campaign kickoff. We wish you best of luck. Kimberly, it's a selfless act to let your husband run for office.
Kimberly Perry:I love it.
Abe Baldonado:I know it's It's funny, Michael. It's it's definitely a thing that, you know, I'm sure you all thought about a lot and preyed on. And so it's also a selfless thing of you, Michael, to put yourself out there and run for office. And, you know, we always appreciate that here at the Chili Wire. Anyone who steps up and says, you know what?
Abe Baldonado:I'm tired of complaining. I'm gonna do something about it. It's it's always great and a a selfless thing to do.
Michael Perry:I can tell you one thing running for office is is bad for, and that's your golf game.
Abe Baldonado:Yeah. Oh, alright. I love my golf game. I'm not running for office. Ever.
Abe Baldonado:I'm just gonna focus on being out on the golf course. We'll have to go golfing sometime. We'll have to get you out there so that way we can play and keep your handicap low. Yeah. But just wanna thank you both for coming on the Chili Road, but also sharing your love, your passion, and commitment for New Mexico.
Abe Baldonado:I'm excited to see where this road takes you all, and you always have a home here at the Chile Wire to join us for conversations. Michael, you're up for state land office commissioner. We'll put a link to your Instagram page where folks can learn more. We'll also put a link to your website. Got a website?
Abe Baldonado:Yep. Do you all have a website right now if you wanna share it really quick?
Kimberly Perry:What the link is? Perry and then the number four. So it's perry4nmland.com.
Abe Baldonado:Perfect. And they can learn all about you. I saw you have your resume on there. Yes. Do your research.
Abe Baldonado:He has his resume on there to prove that
Kimberly Perry:Yes.
Abe Baldonado:He's the guy for the job and has the experience. And Michael, Kimberly, thank you all again for joining the Yeah. My pleasure. Appreciate y'all. That's it for this week's Chile Water, y'all.
Abe Baldonado:We'll see you next time.