Hot Takes on Tea, Fuel Surcharges & Airline Tickets

Join Bill LuMaye as he sits down with successful entrepreneur Jim Baker, owner of 50 Cups Tea Company, to discuss an array of hot takes—from fuel surcharges and airline ticket strategies to the impact of COVID on delivery costs. They also touch on the inefficiencies in government spending, the controversies surrounding Elon Musk's Doge initiative, and the younger generation's shift toward conservative values. Don't miss out on this insightful business, travel, and social commentary episode!

00:00 Introduction and Guest Introduction

00:58 Today's Tea: De-Stress

02:05 Fuel Surcharges: A Hidden Cost

08:17 Credit Card Fees and Merchant Charges

17:14 Insurance Points and Rewards

21:46 Balancing Financial Woes

21:56 Customer Service Frustrations

23:27 Gift Cards and Scams

25:29 Airline Ticket Dilemmas

31:39 Elon Musk and Government Efficiency

34:43 Social Security and Government Waste

39:47 Hope for the Future

Creators and Guests

Host

Bill LuMaye

Talk Host WPTF and Voice Over Talent

Host

Jim Baker

Author of "The Adventure Begins When The Plan Falls Apart" Converting a Crisis into Company Success, Jim is a husband and father of 4, Baker has spent the last 30 years in the business world as an entrepreneur, investor, and advisor. He had a successful exit in 2014 after owning and managing a CRO and functional services company, Ockham, specializing in Oncology. During that time prior to exit, Baker grew ASG and then Ockham both organically and through M&A. Over time Baker has experience in acquiring and selling companies, working with investment bankers, private equity, and mezzanine debt funding. In addition, has vast experience in business branding and managing and leading people. After the sale to Chiltern International, Baker started Sumus Development Group, an advisory business focused on operational excellence, exit strategy and marketing. In addition, Baker is an active investor in the business community.

What is Hot Takes: 50Cups?

United We Sip – Dive into the fascinating world of American culture with "Hot Takes: 50Cups." Join founder Jim Baker as he shares his hot takes on everything from day to day life, business trends and societal shifts, uncovering how we are all more united than we think.

At 50Cups, we believe in the power of community and the shared goal of living a healthy, fulfilled life. Our mission is to inspire you through organic, great-tasting teas, education, and awareness, uniting us all in our quest for better living.

Each episode of "Hot Takes: 50Cups" features Jim's candid and insightful commentary on the challenges, triumphs, and everyday experiences that shape our collective journey. From entrepreneurial wisdom, cultural observations, to health topics and nutrition this podcast offers a fresh perspective that will leave you inspired and enlightened.

Whether you're an aspiring entrepreneur, a business leader, or simply curious about the threads that bind us, this podcast is your gateway to understanding and connection.

Subscribe now and join the conversation!

019 50 Cups
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Bill LeMay: [00:00:00] Hello everybody. I'm Bill LeMay. It is Time for 50 Cups Hot. Takes the podcast everybody waits for 'cause. Jim Baker is here. He is an entrepreneur, a very successful businessman, owner of the 50 Cups Tea Company, and even more importantly, provides me with a new tea experience each and every time we get together.

Jim, how are you? It's good to see you. Doing well. Doing well. I'm not sure if we have a, a

Jim Baker: significant audience, but nonetheless we'll keep trying. Well, you gotta be optimistic. You just don't know. Today we have de-stress. [00:01:00] And I think we had it last month too, but it actually brought the ice today and next last time we had a malfunction.

So it's been freshly brewed. Terrific. Looks pretty good on ice. Almost looks like an old fashioned I was gonna say that. But it's not. And hopefully, you didn't have a flat tire today, so no, you're good to go and you may not even need it, so hopefully you'll stay awake 'cause it's got some cha meal and some valerian root in there and some orange

Bill LeMay: peel.

That is good. You know, I've said this before I've never been a tea person, never have liked tea at all, and I've yet to have one I did not like from you. And I'm, I'm not just sucking up because if I don't like it, I'm not gonna compliment it. But the stuff is wonderful. I have not had a bad tasting tea.

Now, if I were to wanna make my own tea, Jim. How would I go about doing that? Where would I get this wonderful tea? 50 cups tea.com. Look at that.

Jim Baker: Very easy.

Bill LeMay: Now,

Jim Baker: do you charge drop down, hit a couple clicks swipe your credit card and you're good to go. And by the way, we do not charge extra for a credit card charge.

Bill LeMay: I like that [00:02:00] because the first probably should. You probably should. Everyone else does. And the first hot take is something very sexy. Fuel chargers, surcharges, I should say, on certain items. Certain vendors do that for delivery of whatever it might be. And for some reason you seem concerned by it.

Jim.

Jim Baker: Yeah. I don't know if you've noticed before, but you know, some of us, I. Have you order things, maybe not necessarily through Amazon. They're delivered and you get the bill and you know, you got your price, you got your taxes, and then you got the fuel surcharge on top of that. And then you got your total price.

And again, if you're have landscapers coming to your house you're hit, hit with a fuel charge anytime. The other day I got a repairman to come to my mom's house to fix a, a leaky refrigerator. And got the bill and fuel surcharge on that as well. And I just started to [00:03:00] think this all came about during the 20 21, 20 22 excuse me, 22 ti timeframe.

When we were at the. We kind of in that whole COVID Yeah. You know, mandate vaccine world at that point in time, like the, the original spread had dissipated, so to speak, if you believe it and then you had omicron, then you had the delta or something else. You had all these different variations and suddenly for whatever reason.

The oil prices skyrocketed, and as such the average gas price spiked in 2022 and in 2022 it ended up being $4 and 11 cents for the year. And during that same time, crude went to 94 53 a barrel. So suddenly we started seeing to compensate for reduced margin with service providers, with delivery people.

Pretty much with anything. They added a fuel [00:04:00] surcharge. So every time you ordered something or every time somebody came to your house, your house, you were paying another three or four bucks, you know, a, a month, let's say in a, a fuel surcharge. And I'm started thinking to myself at the time. If they're making 30 or 40 or 50 deliveries a day, times that $4 surcharge, that's $200 a day.

There's no way they're burning $200 worth of gas a day rights. So you multiply that by five days a week, maybe six days if they deliver on Saturdays, then you multiply that monthly and yearly and so on, so forth. That's just pure profit dropping right to the bottom line.

Bill LeMay: See, I was gonna ask you that because during that COVID era, everybody was, for the most part, I think ordering.

Especially off Amazon, and if they get somebody to come and do something, they would do it. So there's a certain argument you can make, I think that well they deserve to charge for the fuel, especially when it's went up to $4 and 11 cents. But when you put those numbers to it, it does seem, I don't want to use the word scam, but an opportunity, shall we [00:05:00] say, to to, to make a little extra money.

Yeah. I think it was brilliant

Jim Baker: at the time because you can't, you're not gonna be able to, maybe some people could successfully negotiate it off. But for the most part, you know, I think people say, well, it's only four bucks, you know, I get it. Gas prices are high. Same time that person who's buying that service or that good that's being delivered is also in their own personal life, paying more money for gas as well.

That's correct. But they're not able to get it reimbursed. So there's less money they have probably at the end of the day to be able to spend and they're getting pinched. But it seems like these delivery folks and other service providers were brilliant in the opportunity to be able to capitalize on the surcharge.

So with that said, now it's 2025 and the projected average gas price this year is gonna be $3 and 9 cents, and the math genius. But if I take four 11 and subtract 3 0 9, that's a buck two difference and [00:06:00] reduce cost over the last. Almost three years and we're gonna see that savings, Jim. We are not. We are not, because the bills that I still receive all have fuel surcharges on there still.

So if your HVAC person comes to the house to fix your. Air conditioner, you're hit with a fuel surcharge like everybody should look. You're getting hit with fuel surcharges all the time. And I'm wondering now why I'm hotter about the hot take is why aren't they going off the bill or at a minimum adjusting because they never were there before.

Right? They should be off. But if they're gonna be smart about it and customer centric, reduce it, you know, and maybe have a, a little thing on your. Printable receipt saying that, you know, fuel surcharge is now $2 and 6 cents reduced from $4 and 9 cents, right? So it looks like they're at least doing something.

Of course, that $2 is still going to the bottom line because. The fuel's now cheaper, you know, than it was three years ago. So it's kinda like a hotel fee. [00:07:00] Mm-hmm. Once it's there or a tax mm-hmm.

Bill LeMay: It's not going away. You know, that's true of so many things though. I, I mentioned, I, I looked at the sell bill and you got all of these fees, and most of 'em are very small, but you add 'em all up and it, it might be 10, 12 bucks that's added to your overall bill.

But when you picture a company, let's say it's Lowe's with the fuel charge, and I'm not sure they do that. They do. But on a company basis, you're, you're talking. Not just hundreds of dollars. Are you, Jim? You're, you're talking, well, you're talking a lot of money. It's the resort fee at a hotel, right? Right.

What do you get for the resort fee? So why don't we get upset by this? Is it because the amount looks so small that it's not worth the trouble? Or we just completely unaware of it? We just accept it. And as we seem to accept so many things today, I mean, speak

Jim Baker: for myself. I mean, I'm not gonna examine every single invoice, you know, that comes through or receipt.

So part of me doesn't care. Alright. And then when you start looking at it, and then you're obviously looking at it from [00:08:00] a logical perspective and you're doing data research on what were the prices back three years ago compared to now? And you're like, why am I getting the surcharge still? And, but I think we just accepted similar to what we're seeing today with the credit card charges.

I mean, there's a lot more merchants. That literally have their signs out saying that we're gonna charge you an extra, you know, 3% on your bill restaurants also if you don't pay by debit card or pay by cash. And, but I think people still swipe the card. Now I'm ripping out my debit card all the time because it drives me crazy that I gotta pay an extra 3% just for using my Visa or my American Express.

Bill LeMay: See, I don't wanna get off topic, but I, I still don't fully understand why they do that. I know the, the credit card company charges them, correct? Mm-hmm. For the terminal or whatever it is. But the credit card company also charges the person charging whatever they're charging. So they're kind of, it's almost like.

Again, I don't see the rationale behind the [00:09:00] charge initially from the credit card company because their goal is to get people to use their, their service and then charge them the interest. Right? Or am I wrong? Yeah. So what

Jim Baker: happens? Retail's gotten, so, I guess you could say complicated. With the invention of technology within the, you know, the, the inventory and the checkout process.

So now everybody has an electronic POS, right? Right. So the POS company is kind of like a cell phone it's like an iPhone that's attached to a Verizon, let's say, or attached to an at and t. So the POS system either has Verizon, like, or at and t as your service. You're locked into that. That carrier, so to speak.

Okay. Right. And then they have agreements with all the credit card firms. And then you could choose if you're doing two or 300 transactions a month, you [00:10:00] might take a more higher fixed price with a little bit less credit card charge. But if you're doing less, you may obviously take the less of a fixed price which the POS system is getting by the way.

And then you get pay, pay a little bit more on credit card. So then the POS people say, Hey, look, if you want to save some money. Not from us, of course, right? But if you wanna save some money on the credit card charges charge back your customer the amount that you're being charged from the credit card company.

And I think originally a lot of merchants were simply saying, well, I'll just raise my price by, let's say $3. Well, that's great, but that doesn't cover the, the credit card gonna charge you that 3% now on three more dollars. Right? So you're not incrementally getting that money back. So now they've come up with, I.

Put the mon, put the little sign out there requesting, obviously they really want you to use your debit card. They don't want to use, want you to use cash.

Bill LeMay: May I ask, I don't mean to interrupt, but what's the difference between a debit card and a credit card? Because you're still [00:11:00] using the terminal.

Jim Baker: Most debit cards are like a 0.5% transaction cost, whereas.

Credit cards, depending on the credit card. So if you just have a plain old visa, let's say, with no points associated with it might be a one, one and a half percent charge. Alright? If you have the Capital One, let's say with billions of points, and they give you free dishwashers after, you know, 400,000 points accumulated and everything else, well those charges are higher because the credit card companies aren't giving away those products for free.

They're getting, they're paid for through the merchant fees that they're charging, the coffee shop, the restaurant or other companies. I. So those costs keep going up, right? Because the credit card companies keep trying to brand and market. Special things for people. You know, people may love to travel, right.

You know, so they want the miles. People may love to, you know, do free hotel stays everywhere, so they want that kind of a card. Other people might want get cash back, like, discover. [00:12:00] All that stuff's paid for by the, those fees that the merchant, I. Is either eating or now passing back on to the consumer.

Bill LeMay: See, I didn't realize that. I thought, I, I always realized they were, they were obviously getting the money somewhere to pay for this. They're, they're not giving you that just because you're a good customer. But I always thought it was the customer that was doing, I didn't realize it was falling on. The the local shop owners that are paying, it's mostly the

Jim Baker: local shop owners.

It's certainly not the POS companies. And it's also the consumer because for some of these special, great cards, you have to pay a higher annual membership fee. So that's paying forward as well. And so trust me, at the end, the banks, the credit card companies aren't paying for anything other than their cost of.

Doing business and fraud protection, which is an issue and re paying for, re regulations and, and et cetera. But they're not these cards, these points all these special things, they're not, [00:13:00] they're not going out pocket for that at all. But you could

Bill LeMay: get around that

Jim Baker: by using your debit card rather than a credit card.

You can, most merchants will accept the debit card and not upcharge you. And well, that's good enough, believe it or not, you know, I felt like there was this big push to go to this paperless. Digital payment structure, but it seems like at least in this neck of the woods and with smaller merchants, it's going back to the old days where they just want cold cash.

Bill LeMay: I, I find it interesting because I also try to pay with cash now how I. A lot of retailers are almost reluctant to take it because we've developed a habit of going to the card and just tap it and go. They've made it very easy and I think even going with cash and keeping cash as part of our daily life is important for a lot of other reasons as well.

Right. But going back even to the surcharge on the fuel surcharge, it seems like these companies very brilliant. They're finding ways to. To make more money. Could you make the argument, Jim? I'll play the devil's advocate here. [00:14:00] Listen, if you wanna go pick up your refrigerator at Lowe's, go ahead and pick it up.

If not, you're gonna have to pay a little bit for my gas. That seems fair or not. Interesting

Jim Baker: concept. Sure. That's one way of looking at it, but do something else with it. Transportation charge delivery charge like. I would, would code You prefer point, you're taking the extra $4. Instead of charging $50 for delivery, you're gonna charge me 54.

Bill LeMay: Right.

Jim Baker: But when you're saying it's a fuel surcharge and you're intimating that the fuel prices are still high and therefore you're looking for some relief. Right. That's not true anymore. It's 3 0 9 compared to four 11 of three years ago. And it's, it's steadily gone down since 2020. Two, I mean 23 was 360 1, 24 is three 30.

And then to this, this year it's projected to be at 3 0 9. And we're seeing the price of oil also dropped, of course. Yeah. I mean like I said, 22 is 94 and a half dollars and it's been in the seventies since 23 and now it's gonna [00:15:00] be 67 and change by the end of the year on average, projected.

Bill LeMay: Now, this is where Copi conspiracy theorists would say, well, see now the oil companies are gouging us.

Shouldn't the price be lower than it is now? But you had a really good point. There is a reason that the prices are still higher than I would expect considering the, I think it's 65 bucks or whatever it was today for oil. Why, why is that? Do you know?

Jim Baker: Well, I mean I think all of us kind of know that it's one thing to be able to produce the liquid gold everywhere.

Yes. Get it outta the ground. But it can only be refined in our country. I wanna say maybe five places throughout the entire country, you know, where two or three of 'em are, are centered in Louisiana, Texas, coastline on the Gulf of America. And I think you had mentioned before you thought maybe one in California was being closed.

I think one in

Bill LeMay: closing, one down then. I mean, if

Jim Baker: everything's bottlenecked into the refinery, then you know, the cost of of doing business is still gonna remain high.

Bill LeMay: See these [00:16:00] hot takes do get me hot. 'cause I, I hadn't thought about the these fees and, and now, now I am. And it's, it, it really, it really gets me angry, but I'm not sure what to do about it.

I guess if enough people said something, maybe they'd listen, but we're kind of stuck with it.

Jim Baker: I, overall, I guess it's, as long as you're willing to pay extra, it's seems to be working fine. There's no gas shortages, for example. You know, people can get to the pump, you know, and get their gas. Now, of course we had.

Cash shortages about three or four years ago. Mm-hmm. For a little while. But especially in this state, when that one I guess transfer station lost power or something like that. And then, you know, the governor, mistakenly, I think went out and says, you know, fuel emergency, don't go to the pumps, which was code for everybody in the world.

Flying pumps, flying as fast as you get there. Pumps Yes. And bring cans. So we clearly ran outta gas quicker than we probably anticipated. Yep. But that was shortlived, thankfully. Yeah, I think if you're gonna, you know, you [00:17:00] gotta get the EPA and all these states to. Reduce the regulatory reduce the regulatory burden on refineries and we can build more refineries.

Bill LeMay: Well, you know, all of these problems that we talk about are easily fixable. Yeah. If, if they choose to do so. Now, can I jump back to the credit cards? Sure. Because because I know a little bit about you, but I've also gone through this where oftentimes insurance companies, for instance, we've had this too.

You know, you, you take the survey, you buy the premiums, and they, they give you an opportunity to get a little bit back. That happened to you, and, and I want you to tell the story because I'm sorry, Jim, I, I, I know you can afford it, so I'm gonna laugh at your expense just a little bit because, because this is so typical of the insurance company, what sometimes they do to people would, would you mind?

It has to do with getting a little bit back and all of the fabulous gifts you could get and. And you chose to go one route, which kind of bet you.

Jim Baker: Yeah. So my insurance company in North Carolina is Ambetter [00:18:00] of North Carolina. Oh yes. No, it well, and because of where we're located, you kind of, you have two choices.

Used to have five, by the way, on the exchange, but now you have two, you have Blue Cross Blue Shield and you have Ambetter. So basically Ambetter covers the Duke system and the WakeMed system. And then Blue Cross Blue Shield covers. Wake and they cover UNC and that's basically the three primary providers in our area.

And they have of course bought up all of the private practices in the area. So at the end of the day, you're just dealing with three healthcare providers for the most part. Hell of an improvement. And you have, yeah, and you have two insurance carriers. So then wow. Uh uh, so am better obviously charge you a monthly premium.

And then they have this thing called My Health Benefits. They're points. So if you go get a physical, for example, you get X amount of points if you, they give you a, a mail in you know, colon test basically. And if you do that, you get x amount of points. So at [00:19:00] the, in the old days about three years ago up until last year.

You would accumulate these points and they're basically converting a dollar. So if you had, let's say, 700 points, that converts into about $400. I don't understand their math, but it is what it is. Right. And then you could apply that $400 to your premium online.

Bill LeMay: Oh, that's great. Right. Very easy

Jim Baker: to do. Yeah.

Well, I think they figured out that was way too easy. That wasn't correct. So they therefore changed everything. And last year went to a point system like they had converting into dollars. Then you had the opportunity to hit this link to buy toasters and microwaves and all that stuff. But if you already have that, you don't need it.

Right? So I'm thinking, what else can I do? And it says, you know, in big print, not in small print. Hey. You can convert this into a Visa debit card and just use it however you want to use it. That's wonderful. Yeah. So I'm like, all right. So I did the punched it all in boom. Sent me the credit card the Visa debit card, and I think my balance was $700.[00:20:00]

Nice. Right. So I'm like, great. So I take it to a restaurant in January when I get the car. Oh, the meal you must have had. Wow. It wasn't worth $700. It was about 50. Yeah. Give it to the server, and she comes back and says, Hey, it's the client. I'm like, Hmm, interesting. It's a debit card. She goes, yeah, no.

And so I had to whip out another card to pay and didn't get charged the 3%, by the way. So I'm like, well, that's a problem. I guess it doesn't work in restaurants. Then I call up the insurance company, and if any of you ever called an insurance company before, but it's Oh, yes, 70,000 prompts, and then you finally get somebody, then guess what?

Probably English is not their primary language. Yes. And so I'm going through with the, this very nice person and she basically tells me at the end of the day that you can use it for utility purchases like gas bills, electric bills, alright. Uh uh. You can apply it towards your health benefit premium. That would be great.

I said Great. How do I do that? Next time your bill is [00:21:00] due, call is up and we will, based on your balance, we'll apply a certain amount to your balance and you can pay the rest. Okay, great. I. So I come home, I put the the card on my town of c water bill, and I get an, I'm like, no, I usually ignore these paperless notifications.

Yeah, I do too. 'cause I know it's gonna get paid. Right. And about three months into it, I get a skull and crossbones email from town of Kerry saying they're about ready to shut my water off. 'cause I have a balance of let's say $300. Oh my goodness. Right? And so I go online and lo and behold the, their credit, the debit card that I'm using is, they're not taking it.

So I call to get that automated balance and I have, oh, wait, wait, wait.

Bill LeMay: No. You gotta be pretty angry at this point. Yeah, I'm fired up. Yeah. Now you're calling. Okay. And the balance let's take is still there. The balance is still there. Yeah. It's very funny. It's your money.

Jim Baker: Tell you what, it's your money. What?

I'll pivot outta the utility world. Yes. And I'll just use it to pay my premium. Perfect. Call up. Go hit all rigmarole again. Uhhuh. Get [00:22:00] somebody, she runs it. She's like, okay, it's gonna take like two to three days to process. Oh. Oh. Do you know how when you pay, you get like an i an email? Maybe two, maybe sometimes an hour later, but usually it's immediate saying, boom, you know, right.

Receipt, you know, for why I got nothing. It was crickets. Day three, day four, crickets, and then day five rolls around. Mm-hmm. And in big, bold skull and crossbones again. Your charges were denied. So the thing doesn't work at all. I. So what did you do? And I have a balance.

Bill LeMay: Yeah. What did you do? So, so it says, did you call 'em

Jim Baker: again?

It says call the bank. So I called the bank. But you're actually calling the insurance company? It's financial division. It's their card. Oh, wow. And right now I. I've prayed to God and it's simply in God's hands. And God is telling me, you know what? This point things rigg scam. Just let it go. Don't even worry about it.

Take the toast. It's 700. Take the toast.

Bill LeMay: Take the toaster.

Jim Baker: That's what he, that's what God's saying. Is that what he's saying? Go online and buy a toaster and maybe you [00:23:00] can regift it to somebody at some point. I went for everybody

Bill LeMay: at Christmas and they all get toasters,

Jim Baker: right? So, but that's

Bill LeMay: a terrible thing to do, I think for, to, I mean.

You're not the only person obviously going through that.

Jim Baker: I know.

Bill LeMay: And it's, it just sounds like another scam. It really does, and I can't figure it out. I. No. And I just can't believe you're, you were that patient to go through it that far. I, you're not sharing what you really said in and what

Jim Baker: tone? No, no.

Yeah, it's personal. I'm sure. Very professional. But as you know too, I mean, you get a lot of, you could buy gift cards. Yeah. And there're, there's some restrictions on gift cards, you know, so if you get one, don't let it sit on your counter for two years. 'cause it'll expire after a year. Yes. Found that out, nothing about it.

Bill LeMay: And then there's a charge on those as well if you wanna load it up. And yes. So nothing's free. Amazon, I think is a card you can buy and you don't have an extra fee. And I'm sure there's others, but I'm sure it's built in there somewhere. I'm very cynical, especially more so having done these shows, Jim, because it seems like everybody's got, we [00:24:00] either a great business plan or a scam, which sometimes it, that lines blurred a bit.

So what color are you gonna get? Are you going with the chrome or the black? A flat black. What?

Jim Baker: I don't know. It's too bad. My two daughters are expecting babies and they already had their showers. Oh, time shower. The young one's gone. Maybe I'll get the toaster for them.

Bill LeMay: No, I've, I've done that myself with even the credit cards that you speak of where you, you get points and then even eventually you can turn it into something and.

You can shop at certain places and it's usually something I have no interest in, and I think that probably is more so the case. Yeah. Speaking of one, one of them is mileage on, on airlines and, and those. You gotta, you gotta fly a lot, man, before you can get on a plane for free, so to speak. [00:25:00] But I, I have a question for you.

And it is a hot point, a hot topic, hot take. And that is there are times I'm sitting there going, you know what, especially during the COVID era and all of that, I gotta fly. But the refundable tickets are really expensive in comparison to the non-refundable tickets. But at the same time, if you're flying with a family and let's say something happens that's a.

Boatload of money as well. Now, if I were to guess, I'm sure you've pondered this yourself. [00:26:00] Where do you stand on this? I mean, what is the better option? Or is there one? The airlines, it's, it's

Jim Baker: an interesting thing with airline tickets 'cause everybody, it's almost like health insurance in a way. Mm-hmm. They know they have to pay for it.

They want the maximum service for the least amount of money. So they're always looking for the cheapest ticket. Yes. So now, and I think Delta recently just changed their, their pricing. So then, so when you go in there to book something, they literally give you like five different choices. Now, before it might've been three.

So there's a, there's regular, there's. Economy plus, and there's the economy, comfort, doubles, double whatever. Then there's first class, then there's Delta one, and then there's within the dropdown boxes of each segment there's the ability to buy a non-refundable ticket or a refundable ticket.

Right. And I really started thinking about this a few weeks ago and I get where, where some people can't do it, but there's like for [00:27:00] a little bit more money. So if you, if you bought the non-refundable ticket. And then you paid the, for the insurance, which I think you'd have to give away your firstborn to take 400 pictures and get 20 doctor notes to get your money back from the insurance company.

Yes. And yours you're probably not gonna wanna go through that hassle. Right. And of course if there's a lightning strike within 800 miles of the airport, they're gonna tell you that it, it, it was weather, weather related and they, they can't do anything about it. Mm-hmm. So I started doing some math and I'm thinking, okay, well the non-refundable, let's say is $300, and then the insurance is another buck 50.

That's four 50. Well, if I buy the refundable ticket for let's say five 50, I have complete freedom to cancel that ticket out, right? Yes. I'm paying a little bit more. I have zero hassle. I can cancel that thing the minute before that plane off. And that extra a

Bill LeMay: hundred bucks and zero hassle is worth

Jim Baker: it in

Bill LeMay: for for many people.

Jim Baker: Yeah. And most of the time you're gonna end up buying the refundable and taking the flight. But there are times you, you might not, but then you get your money back. There's no flight [00:28:00] credits. Right now I have to be get a CFO to figure out where all my flight credits are. I mean, I got some on Delta, I got some on American.

And of course these airlines, Delta's a little bit better and so is United. But American, you gotta do a deep dive to pull your flight credit up. It's not just sitting there and your little wallet like some of these other airlines have it. So that's aggravating. And of course, certain airlines, if you book a ticket for you and your wife you have a credit.

Total credit, but then you can't use that credit for just you, even though you may, it's your credit card and you made the payment. You have to use whatever hers was on her ticket and then whatever yours was on your ticket. So they find ways to keep the money into their system and they're hoping you never use those credits anyhow.

Right. And that's just a complete win windfall for 'em. So I've changed my tune and I'm buying refundable tickets from now on. Yes. If there's a little bit of a premium, another 50 to a hundred bucks, if you add up the insurance and the non-refundable cost, but you [00:29:00] have complete flexibility to cancel and you get your money back within one or two days.

Bill LeMay: The other part of flying. If I could just interject just a little bit because it, it's become such a hassle. I don't know. Do you enjoy flying? No. Who does? No. I mean, I absolutely hate it. There was a time I did there was a time you'd get on the plane and you could smoke and have drinks, and I was you know, and, but, but it's not that way anymore.

But the ticket price itself, whether it's refundable or not, does not include so many things. Oftentimes, you'll go to pick your seat and they go. Gosh, if you'd like to sit, that's an extra $50 per seat. Right? Especially if you, you, you wanna be somewhere towards the front of the plane. So I don't know.

Is there any way around it then you, you have to make a choice. I mean, I've read somewhere that credit cards, some credit cards will actually. Cover a non-refundable, but have you discovered any, [00:30:00] yeah. Any loophole at all? I've never seen that at all.

Alright.

Jim Baker: I, yeah, unless you dispute a charge. But that's kind of hard to win a disputed charge against an airline unless they erroneously charge you for two seats instead of just one.

No, I think the only way you get around that, I think if you have status but most people with lots of status aren't buying economy tickets. No. Right. You know, they're usually, it's all about spend really, it's not really about the miles. Right. So you know, if you're gonna go ahead and book yourself, you know an expensive seat all the time, then you're gonna get more status.

The problem is most of those people don't even want a chance buying a lesser seat, because God forbid if they don't get an upgrade. Their hot take will go through the roof at that point in time. So they just keep spending and they don't worry about the upgrade piece of it.

Bill LeMay: Yeah. When I fly by myself and let's say I go back to Green Bay to visit do something sometimes they have like the very cheap price and I mean, it is ridiculously not the one that's has 10 stops to Denver, but [00:31:00] there's usually one and but it's a crappy seat back of the plane.

I don't take luggage. I do a carry on and I've got that system down. Every now and then I can get on with that cheap price for a couple hundred bucks and fly. Where normally if I had to do it the, the regular way, it'd be like four or 500 bucks. And I, I get the feeling they really dislike me when I, when I get there, I say, what do you mean you don't want to upgrade?

What do you mean you have no bags? You know, I'm surprised. Well, I am frisked quite frequently going through the TSA, maybe that has something to do with it. Alright. I guess I spent too much time on the airlines. Maybe it's more of a, a bugaboo for me. Enjoy the friendly skies. Yeah. Well. I was saddened today and, and to hear Elon Musk was leaving and I think what he did with Doge was remarkable and especially big balls and the rest of the team.

And what they discovered, I thought was maybe not as much as they had hoped to at this point. But it [00:32:00] was pretty eye-opening. What's your take on Doge as it sit and, and the reaction from different people and, and what they've accomplished or didn't accomplish?

Jim Baker: I'm surprised that all of us, I think, want the government to run as efficiently as possible, not to waste our tax dollars.

Mm-hmm. I truly believe that. But when it comes to anything that might affect them. I mean the bureaucracy in this case, or the average citizen or they don't like the way the approach from Doge took place then it becomes, it's not gonna work. No. And on top of that, I mean, they never really gave these guys a chance.

I mean, everybody, they went to the courts right away just to get injunctions to stop things. Then things got stopped, [00:33:00] then the next judge would say, you're good to go. Other judges kept saying, no, you can't do it. And I thought everybody wants an efficient government where we're not wasting money.

And what I've, what I'm ultimately sad about is the bureaucracy won again. It's this giant money sucking machine that they have zero in. What's his name? Ron Johnson. The senator from Wisconsin was on the All In Podcast the other day, and he's probably one of the few senators and congressman that knows about budgets and understands how much spending is going on.

And he made a comment that the average representative has absolutely no idea what anything costs. And they don't read the bills, they don't look at the, the, the numbers. They just simply are told what to vote for and they vote for it. Right. And [00:34:00] you know, and I credit Musk for staying for as long as he did because I think a lesser individual would've been gone, you know, probably after January 31st.

I mean, he just got fought within every step of the way.

Bill LeMay: Well, and personally threatened and his company Tesla. Oh yeah. The burn Tesla is the whole deal. Right. And I, I, I, I don't understand it. I understand it, I guess in the sense that it was a big slush fund for, for political types, you know, as USAID and some of these other things.

But I agree. I thought that politicians would want to do the right thing. But Jim, I'm becoming. Aware that they don't, and I fear that's also in the Republican party as well. Everybody, they, they saved $150 billion. There were people who weren't going to work for years. Years. They just cut 12 million people off of social security.

We're over 120 years old. Alright, now I don't know how you [00:35:00] argue. I don't know how you fight against that. I don't know why you go to court over that. There's 18 million illegal aliens receiving social security benefits. Can I read you something I'd like to get your reaction? Sure. This was on Jesse Waters last night, and it was somebody who was basically being honest and she said this.

The truth is you all hating on me because I live rent free and can afford all the luxuries you all dream about for me and my kids. I'm gonna continue to buy my luxury bags since she holds up Louis Vuitton with the government paying my rent. I'm going to continue to go on trips that me and my kids love to do while you struggling to pay your grocery bills while I swipe my EBT card.

Now, that enraged me, but I'm not saying. That's not an exception. Okay. That's what I'm saying. I'm gonna say everybody's playing the game, but that's not the exception. Why would you not want to put an end to that? Oh, say you can't answer. [00:36:00] I

Jim Baker: don't know.

Bill LeMay: Would you wanna go

Jim Baker: out and burn a Tesla over that? I don't know.

I, I think it, what's sad about this whole thing is, and maybe I'm in the same camp, nobody wants to sacrifice anything.

Bill LeMay: No, it's true.

Jim Baker: Right? In World War ii, we all sacrificed. Family sent their guys off to go fight. You know, they worked in the factories they rationed, they did whatever they could.

And maybe it was the greatest marketing given the government's ever pulled on the people. But it worked. And now we're in this situation where you know, whatever they were targeting to try to save money with if it. Hurt you personally. If you felt like it hurt you personally then suddenly you didn't want it, you know, go, go someplace else and go try to save money over there, but leave me my, my stuff alone and okay.

Tariffs, for example, right? Mm-hmm. If we truly need this tariff to fix the economy and the trade imbalances, then we have choices [00:37:00] we don't need to buy. The item that went up 50% in price. Just don't buy it or go buy it, you know, someplace else by else. It's cheaper. No. But nobody wants to do that.

Everybody wants cheap prices. Everybody wants a stock market to continue to be green every single day. Nobody wants to make a sacrifice. And that's what's I think ultimately said about this whole thing. And the fact that he who I think is an American hero, he's got successful businesses. He's smarter than heck.

He may not like his methods but he gets things done. You know, wasn't basically allowed, you know, to, to help the citizenry of this country by making government more efficient.

Bill LeMay: I'm sure you heard some of the stories where if an employee retires where the paperwork goes right into a cave and it takes like five, six months for that person to retire, their computer hardware is.

I think we have more computing power in our watch than the government has on there. [00:38:00] I mean, all of these things, it would seem to me that a person, any person who's running any kind of business, would wanna upgrade. And you're right, this, this this kickback, this pushback seems very corrupt to me. You know, I understand the politics with the Democrats doing what they're doing, but put it this way, Elon Musk said, I think those will become stronger as it becomes more a part of government.

Do you believe Doge will be here two, three years from now?

Jim Baker: I mean, it's been here for a while. I just never did anything and then now it's doing something. I. I doubt that's gonna be effective down the road unless you truly have powerful people running it and they're allowed to within the rule of law, allowed to do things with having to be stopped every five seconds.

So it's possible, but it's highly doubtful.

Bill LeMay: Yeah, that's how I feel too. And the game that's being played with the judge shopping and all of that, it's just [00:39:00] I think people are tired it, tired of it overall, those who understand it. If you, and I know you do, I know you because you're, you're, you're a business guy, right?

We, the position we're in with the United States and the debt we're carrying, I think if we add a trillion every a hundred days to our debt if you were running a business, what would happen to that business? Jim gone. So if we're talking about sacrifice, Jim, wouldn't that be a really big sacrifice for all of us?

It's a huge one. Yeah. I'm looking for a little rainbow here, Jim. I'm looking for a little silver lining. I don't wanna, you know, end on a bad note. I thought what he, they did was spectacular and I was excited and I thought everybody would jump on board and say, wow, finally we got a handle on it, and the complete opposite happened.

So where do we go from here?

Jim Baker: I don't know if there's any, you know, there's a lot of good news out there, obviously what I'm seeing in the younger generation you know, maybe it's just a. The age group my kids are in at this point in time. Yes. That is good [00:40:00] news, right? People are getting married, they're having kids, they're having multiple kids, they're going back to church.

Catholic church has had a renaissance in the last three or four years. What do, what do you

Bill LeMay: think of the new pope?

Jim Baker: I don't know much about him, but he went to my alma mater Villanova University, so he is gotta be half cool. At least. Yeah, least half. Cool. Yeah, I mean there's, there's, there's hope.

You know, because I think as we talked earlier in other podcasts in order to have a wildly successful family, you must have a religious foundation. And doesn't mean you have to go to church every five seconds, but you need to understand that I. You're, it's not about you. It's about something much bigger.

And I think the younger generation seems to understand that a little bit more right now. And I'm hopeful Me too, that, you know, things will change as the, that group gets older.

Bill LeMay: I think you're right. And it seems to, showing up in the polls as well, where you have is it Gen Z? Is that what it is today?

More conservative, a little more, as you [00:41:00] say. Family oriented and, and well, which is I guess not unusual if you have, you always seem to do the opposite of the generation before you. Right. You know, so that is good news. And so is your tea tea's awesome man. It absolutely is. Awesome. Do you have any final thoughts on any of this?

There's always hope and drink tea and I. Enjoy life. Yeah. And if you don't like the fuel surcharge, go pick it up yourself. That's right. That's right. In fact, if you would like to order tea, Jim will waive the surcharge. I'm pretty sure it's

Jim Baker: not there already. But yeah, free shipping over $40.

Bill LeMay: Perfect. Jim, as always, thank you very much.

Thanks, bill. Alright, take care. [00:42:00]