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A podcast that holds horror to standards horror never agreed to. Hosts Jeremy Whitley, Ben Kahn, Emily Martin and guests watch, read, listen to, and check out movies, tv shows, comics, books, art and anything else from the horror genre and discuss it through a progressive lens. We'll talk feminism in horror, LGBTQ+ issues and representation in horror, racial and social justice in horror, disability and mental health/illness in horror, and the work of female and POC directors, writers, and creators in horror.
We're the podcast horror never agreed to take part in.
Emily: every facet shall be explored.
Ben: Yes.
Jeremy: You don't have to talk like
it's Hellraiser, just because we were
supposed to do Hellraiser tonight.
Emily, every facet shall be explored.
Emily: We have such sites to show you.
All we had to do is wait 300 years
for a virgin to delight a candle.
Ben: I gotta say if we're doing
hocus pocus, hell raise crossover.
The character I wanna see is Ace Bite.
The fucking bus driver.
Emily: No, he already was.
Ben: I, I we, we, we really
got, I, I absolutely want to
talk about the bus driver.
Jeremy: Do you guys wanna just dive in?
Emily: Let's dive in.
Jeremy: All right, let's do it.
Good evening, and welcome to Progressively
Horrified, the podcast where we
hold hode to progressive standards.
It never agreed to tonight.
It is Ben's birthday,
so we're talking about.
We're talking about a film that is,
dare I say, a sensation, a movie
that people grew up on, something
that shaped who people are.
That's right.
It's hocus pocus.
Ben: I'm not gonna say how old I'm,
I'm not gonna say how old I'm turning.
Jeremy: how old everybody is in
this when we talk about this movie.
Ben: But by the fact that my pick was
hocus pocus should give you some clues.
Jeremy: Yeah.
It will become quickly evident
what people's various age
ranges are, I think here.
Well, I'm your host Jeremy Whitley,
and with me tonight I have a
panel of Cinephiles and Cenobites.
First, they're here to challenge
sexy weal, sexy v, vampire binary.
My co-host Ben Conn, Ben, how tonight?
Ben: I feel very confident
saying Hocus pocus.
This movie was my first exposure
to Madonna as an entity.
Emily: Hmm.
Speaking of showing her ages.
Ben: I was not aware of the
existence of a being known as
Madonna until I watched Hocus Pocus.
So again, how old am I?
That should give you a real fucking
clue that I'm watching Hocus Pocus,
but don't know who the fuck Madonna is.
Emily: And how Jewish you are.
Ben: Oh, so goddamn Jewish.
Jeremy: This movie for a movie that
uh, is about witches and, and it
references the devil several times.
Pretty Jewish.
Ben: There's a reason I really
connected with this movie.
It's Campy.
It's Halloweeny.
It's Juy.
It's got everything.
Jeremy: And the Cinnamon Roll of
Cenobites, our co-host Emily Martin.
How are you tonight, Emily?
Emily: I've seen this movie before,
but n only now could I appreciate
the amazing cameos that we have, such
as, Madonna and Sonic the Hedgehog.
Ben: Yes, there's a kid
fucking just walking by hedge.
Were there any other IP costumes
or was it just somehow Sonic?
Emily: No, there were
other IP costumes for sure.
I saw some Rocky Horror
Picture show uh, costumes.
Gosh, I saw somebody in a Mrs.
Pot's costume, which is a kid.
Jeremy: see.
That makes sense.
Now it would all be Disney's stuff in
the background if they were to make this.
Well, they did remake this.
Several years later.
But before we start talking about
that, let me introduce our guest
tonight, comics writer and editor.
And I feel safe saying friend
of the show, Joe Carlo.
Welcome back, Joe.
Joe: thanks for having me back.
Ben: Uh, Thank you for being here.
For this one.
Joe: Of course.
Ben: This was a movie that.
You know Disney Channel was on
heavy rotation in the con household.
Like growing
Jeremy: under the impression for years
that it was a Disney Channel movie.
It is, it is not.
It did release in theaters, apparently
it did horribly, and then became
popular on the Disney Channel.
Years later,
Joe: In, in fairness, it did premiere
the same weekend as Free Willie.
Ben: okay.
Yeah, that fucking whale.
But you know what?
Jokes on it.
Jeremy: I
Ben: I still see ho Hocus
Pocus brought out every year.
When's the last time you fucking
heard anyone talk about Free Willie?
Jeremy: say the music and
Free Willy is better, but
Joe: That that's true.
Did you ever see there
was a free Willie cartoon
Jeremy: it was an everything
Ben: it like God's Villa, the animated
series where Willie just goes around,
swims around to a bunch of sea worlds
and like fights against evil SeaWorld,
like Jurassic World type creatures.
Joe: a little.
Ben: right?
Yeah.
Joe: No, cause the, the, they had to
create a villain cuz it was a cartoon.
So there was a, there was a,
Ben: SeaWorld.
That was the villain.
Joe: in this, in the
cartoon, it was a cyborg.
Ben: Villain.
Amazing.
Emily: Well, it's a
cartoon in the nineties.
Joe: There's a cyborg, like super
villain in the free willy cartoon, or
Emily: Did Free Willie have abs?
Joe: I
Jeremy: he have a dolphin
sidekick named free Wally?
Ben: The, the free Willie reboot is
just like, Fucking some like animal
rights group just suing like the
SeaWorld Park, like out of existence.
Emily: Was that, did they
make a sequel to Free Willie?
Joe: There's
Ben: made two,
Jeremy: Yeah.
Emily: Well, I know, I know, but
Ben: three.
Willie three
Emily: They did make sequels My bad.
Did they make a remake recently?
Ben: I don't believe so now I didn't,
I I probably did watch this equals
I have zero recollection of them.
Was this the same whale that
just kept fucking getting
kidnapped over and over again?
Or one kid who's just going
around freeing a bunch of whales?
Jeremy: I don't know.
I don't remember Free Willie too.
I remember Free Willie a
lot, but Free Willie too?
Not so much.
Emily: I
Ben: is it different?
Or is it like total reboot?
Different kid, different animal.
Free Willy too.
He's helping a walrus escape maybe.
Emily: I
Jeremy: It's like the Lost World.
He finds a second location where they
have another whale locked up and.
Emily: Yeah,
Joe: were there multiple
whales in the other ones?
Emily: I mean, there were other creatures.
All I remember is the one whale and
Ben: I mean, I'm trying to game
this franchise out to Willy World,
a mind blowing science fiction
movie that explores the concept.
What if whales weren't endangered?
Emily: or
Joe: Well, we'll never get there.
So
Ben: We'll, ne we'll never know.
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: that's, why we use fiction
to explore the impossible.
Emily: was thinking it was gonna
be like Willie, but like there's
an undersea like human park.
And that's Willie's
Ben: Okay.
Emily: And he like takes
all of his trainers.
And puts them in like small pods
and makes them do tricks as revenge.
Ben: I love this concept.
I'm in,
Emily: yeah,
Joe: had me with tricks as revenge That
Ben: so it's pretty much saw, but
instead of a puppet, it's a whale.
Emily: Well I feel like it's more
like sympathetic to the whale.
Ben: The whale is objectively
the protagonist, but otherwise-.
Jeremy: Now we gotta, we gotta
talk now about the director
of this film, Kenny Ortega.
Because he did, he did direct this film,
and I could talk for a while about how he
also directed all three descendants movies
how he directed high school musical how he
directed the Michael Jackson concert film.
This is it.
But all I really want to talk about
is how he directed the video for
Gloria Efan and the Miami Sound
Machines Rhythm is gonna get you.
Ben: Yeah.
Also Newsies.
He did Newsies.
Jeremy: yep.
Joe: Yeah.
Jeremy: first feature film, I believe.
Emily: God.
I
Joe: yeah.
But um, as choreographer though starting
off with uh, Xanadu, the movie that
ended Gene Kelly, that's pretty great.
Emily: I mean,
Ben: Yeah.
Joe: cuz it ended Gene.
Emily: Yeah, but it was,
it was legendary for its
Jeremy: man killed Gene Kelly.
Ben: he just, he just came at
his Andrew being like, well, I'm
taking down Gene Kelly now to
take down the rest of Hollywood.
Joe: And, and I like Xou.
I know it's not the most popular take, but
I I thought that movie was pretty okay.
Jeremy: That's a ringing endorsement.
Pretty Okay.
Says Joe Caro.
Ben: okay.
Listeners Hit us at, uh, Twitter
at Prague Harpo and give us
your hottest Santa due takes.
Emily: yeah, please,
Jeremy: mean, he choreographed
several like music videos for Olivia
Newton John some of which correspond
with Xanadu, but uh, got some
choreography for Rod Stewart in there.
Oh, we choreographed, let's get physical.
I mean, what?
This man is a legend.
What else do we need to
Emily: Yeah.
You
Ben: I mean, there's only one
musical number in this movie,
but it goes so fucking hard.
Emily: There's technically two.
Ben: It is wildly unnecessary.
It is also objectively the
best scene in the movie.
I put a spell on you as fucking iconic.
Emily: it
Jeremy: we're gonna, if we're gonna
talk legendary here, we also have
three different writers on this
Now, Neil Cuthbert and MIT Garris
have interesting careers that are
sort of diverse in different ways.
But I really do think we should
talk about David Kirschner who you
may know from an American tale or
five goes West, or any number of
Ben: Titan AE
Jeremy: Yeah.
Emily: Oh.
Ben: Titan AE with the CGI
and the Creed and the like.
Drew Barrymore as an Asian
Jeremy: Page master.
Yeah, he's, he's all over the
childhood of the nineties.
It's it's wild.
Five oak goes west, I think just out
does hocus pocus for the, the best
of these or an American tale out.
Does hocus pocus for the rest of these is
Emily: I was gonna say like
Ben: this movie is a very
iconically, like nineties kids movie
Joe: Yeah, but we, we also have to stress
though that David is really, has been at
the Chucky franchise from the beginning,
Jeremy: Oh yeah.
Emily: Yeah, yeah
Joe: because like, and stayed
with it mostly in a producing
capacity, but, and, and is involved
in the show that's going on now.
He's, he is been at it from the beginning,
so, so some real horror roots here.
Ben: that all makes sense because
there is an understanding of camp
to it.
Like that Chuck that the Chucky
franchise absolutely nails.
Joe: Yeah.
Jeremy: He,
he is well noted as both the creator
of the Chucky doll and the the creator
specifically of the Tiffany doll.
So,
Ben: I watched this movie a lot as a kid
because every October fucking the Disney
Channel would air this movie at least
like once a day at just various hours.
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: Like this movie was
in constant rotation.
So this just became a Hollywood
like staple of like nineties
kids Halloween movies.
I think like, I think it was
like Nightmare Before Christmas
Ho Pocus and Earnest Stupid.
Really kind of established that really
kind of like for nineties kids that.
Suburban Halloween trick
or treat aesthetic of
like, this is what Halloween looks like.
Emily: upcycled from the slashers, you
know, upcycled from, and I say upcycled
because it's definitely repurposed and
you know, like the slashers light, right?
They have these movies that have.
This kind of aesthetic.
And, you know, this is like, pretty,
like in the midst of Tim Burton's
like big time, you know, so Tim
Burton was like, really like hot.
He's so hot right now.
At least right now in 1993.
Ben: mean, he is
Joe: I I was thinking of
the Zoolander reference,
Emily: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Ben: two Batman movies, like, fuck yeah.
Emily: yeah.
No, I've, I've, I've fully am
referencing Zoolander when I
say something so hot right now.
But
Jeremy: we should talk a little bit about
the, the multi-tiered cast of this movie,
because like, It's, it's cast very weird
for a, a movie that is for children.
Mo mostly that the three main characters
I, I guess there is as Maine as anybody
is in this movie, are the witches who
are played by uh, Bette Middler, Sarah
Jessica Parker, and Kathy Na Jimmy an
all-star lineup, if there ever was one.
Ben: The witches are
absolutely the main characters.
Jeremy: yeah.
Of of,
Emily: you care about.
Jeremy: there there an all-star
lineup of, of like people that your
aunt or your gay uncle really love.
Like
Joe: yes.
Ben: They're God, like when they
announced Hocus POCUS two, nobody
was going like, Ooh, we'll get
to see what Max has been up to.
Nobody, not a fucking soul.
Jeremy: I mean, cause you have, so
there's the kid actors, there's, we talked
about the like kid actors from the side
screen of it that's in the 16 hundreds.
They're awful.
And then there's the kid
Ben: Ee, what took you so long?
Emily: They're children.
Come on.
Jeremy: the kid,
Ben: I hate that his name was Zachy.
Thank God they fucking called him Bink.
During like 80%
Emily: Yeah.
I don't know what, where
Ben: time they said Thry, I got so mad.
Jeremy: the teenage boy that plays
thackery is so bad that he doesn't
even get to do his voice as the cat.
They have somebody else
do that voice for him.
Like his, his acting, his, his vocal
acting is not good, and his like actual
physical acting is very like stagey.
So, he's not good.
Once we get to the present, max and
Allison, who are, I guess are our main
protagonist in this, both of them are
fine, but are way out shined by Thra Birch
as the younger sister Danny, who if you
were watching this movie, you'd be like,
oh, that's the one who's going to have
a, a movie career after this obviously.
Ben: A hundred percent.
Also her witch costume outfit.
Fucking iconic.
Emily: I love it.
I love
Ben: Incredible, incredible fall.
Look,
Joe: Did, did anyone catch in
the movie that Max is a Virgin?
Did.
Did anyone hear when?
Because they just kind of mention
it
Emily: was kind of subtle.
Yeah.
It was like so downplayed.
Ben: Just kinda let you put it together.
Jeremy: really, really, really, really
want you to know that the 15 year
olds in this movie are not fucking,
Ben: I'm, it's
Emily: glad.
Jeremy: it's very important that
you know the fucking status of
the 15 year olds in this movie.
Ooh.
Ben: Yeah, so like,
Emily: Why do they
Jeremy: all of that is, all of that is
made up for, by the fact that Doug fucking
Jones pops up halfway through this movie,
Emily: Yeah.
He's not
Ben: yeah.
Doug Jones.
Doug Jones.
That zombie fucks
Emily: That zombie fucks he
fucks before and after death.
Ben: I'm sorry.
Between Sarah, Jessica
Parker and Doug Jones.
Pretty much any goth of any orientation.
Got some kind of awakening
outta this movie.
Emily: Absolutely.
Joe: Also um, gotta give uh, mention
to Charles Rocket, the, you know, Max's
dad and, and obviously his sister's
dad who people might also recognize
as the villain from Dumb and Dumber.
Emily: I remember this.
Yes.
Ben: costume as Dad uah is definitely
sounds like the title of a movie
we would cover on this podcast.
Emily: Yeah.
Where's Dula?
That's the that,
Ben: I
Emily: the
Jeremy: Day now.
Ben: I feel like the closest you get to
that is the Hotel Transylvania franchise.
Joe: You know,
Jeremy: very, that's
exactly what that movie is
Emily: Oh,
Jeremy: and I, I don't feel like we
can go into talking about what happens
in this movie without also mentioning.
The surprise guest appearances
by Gary and Penny Marshall, just
like Gary Marshall as the devil.
Ben: It
Emily: Yes.
Ben: whole scene.
Amazing.
Jeremy: yeah.
Emily: that's the best scene in the movie.
Joe: Yeah.
Yeah, I could see
Ben: so much of the comedy in this
movie is legitimately very funny.
Emily: Yeah.
Joe: When, when it, when it works and
when, when it's like, like that, it,
it cuz that whole bit, like you were
saying, where um, he goes like, they call
me Masters and, and Petty Marshall's.
Just like, where will
I hear what I call you?
Like, you know, this whole bit like
Ben: it's, it's very kid
friendly, but it's solid.
Like just the general three
stooges vibes of the sisters.
Emily: So delightful to watch.
Ben: They're all just so dumb and
different, wonderful flavors of
dumb, like they're all idiots.
Emily: I love their little like
calming circle and she's like,
Ben: oh my God, the
Emily: now aren't being honest
with myself and I feeling sister.
Ben: Like their dynamic is
just fucking wonderful also.
Joe: also, yeah.
Ben: Yes.
Joe: No, I, I was just gonna say
it's kid friendly, but then there's
random scenes like that scene where
the kids watch what they think are the
witches being burned, alive to death,
cutting immediately to them, like
frolicking in the street being like,
woo, boy, we just, and it's like, whoa.
Ben: to that eventually, which was yeah.
Dot dot trigger warning question mark.
Holocaust imagery.
Jeremy: yeah.
There's, that's, that's a
weird scene we talked about.
There's, there's, there's so many.
This movie is just like taped together
weird scenes that end up becoming
something better because it also
has the, the scene with Don Yaso
who plays the bus driver, who like,
Ben: Oh, the
Jeremy: First of all, the bus
driver's mad horny for the witches.
and ha like we were saying kid friendly,
but has this line where the witches get on
the bus and then, and Bette midler's like
we're looking for or we want children.
And he says, well, it
Ben: I
Jeremy: take you a few tries,
but I think I can get you there.
Ben: I lost my mind.
That bus driver is, look, I know that bus
driver is a fucking aggressive weirdo.
But he's also my favorite
character in the movie.
Jeremy: It's like, what if you
got on a bus and fucking Andrew
Dice Clay was driving it like,
Ben: like what if like a horny insult
comedian just immediately like just
started like flirting with you with
a bizarrely good amount of game.
Emily: you know,
I thought he was funny.
He was
Ben: Oh, I agree.
Emily: But I think what helped that
situation is that, you know, that he would
be incinerated at any moment by the, by
the witch sisters, which made his, like,
attempts kind of charming, you know,
if he was doing that to anybody else.
I think that that's one of the
fun things about how this movie
kind of slides through certain,
you know, situations like that.
But, and like all of the horny lines,
the horny and also like how Sarah
Jessica Parker or Sanderson is like,
oh boy, I went to play with him.
Ben: The Mom's Madonna costume and tell
me, mom, Donna and Dacula we're not
planning on just having the most filthy
of married sex that night in costume.
Emily: that and like, you know,
maybe mixing it up a bit, maybe,
Ben: Oh, so are we saying that
this was a swinger's party at City
Hall because I'm down for that.
Emily: I mean
Ben: that where we're going?
Emily: I don't think it was exclusively,
but I've dealt the Massachusetts
town with all these
Ben: a Halloween.
Joe: they called them
key parties back then, by
Emily: Yeah.
Yeah.
Ben: I do love how obsessed with
Halloween, this town is like this
scene at the beginning with him and
the classroom is legitimately insane.
Emily: That teacher is
fucking killing it though.
Ben: just this, him as the California
Tie Dye skeptic against this, this
classroom teacher and every student
to the man who is all of them like.
Real.
And yes, as it turns out, they
end up being completely correct,
but at that point, but like still
religiously convinced in the
existence of a Halloween spookiness,
Jeremy: This movie would be 50% better
if in that scene, instead of being like,
you guys don't really believe this.
He was like, you know, which trials
were used to like punish women who
had too much power and like, you
Emily: Yeah, that would
Jeremy: Had like a feminist take on
why, on why like, you know, celebrating
Burning Witches was not cool.
Instead of being like, you
know, witches were real.
Emily: yeah.
I love that.
The this, the tie dye California
boy is the quote unquote skeptic.
Ben: he tries to be, like, he tries
to connect with like, what's her name,
Allison, by just being like, yeah, it's
just, you know, spooky fun and stuff
like, and she responds with the fucking
dead eyed conviction of a Scientologist.
Joe: Yeah.
Jeremy: I don't know if it's that
we've been rewatching Parks and Rec
recently, but this really reminded
me of like Ben and little Sebastian
Ben: Wilson Sebastian?
Yes.
Jeremy: he's just like, I don't get it.
It's a small horse.
Like, I don't know why everybody's
so crazy about this shit.
Joe: Yeah.
Ben: Like to the degree that this man
dressed as the fake cop, not only is
he dressed as a police officer, he
made his own Salem police patch with
a witch's silhouette as the loco.
Emily: Hell yeah.
Don't they have that?
If they don't, then that's
a wasted opportunity.
But then, you know, then they
can be called witch hunters.
Ben: this man was God
damn I do love that scene.
And again, it just shows this like weird.
Kid adult line.
This movie walks of, we're just so
used to how like and useless police
officers are, but to actually that
like we accept the not believing scene
without question that, again, I've
seen this movie fucking 15 times.
It's not a surprise, but I think
that's still a great punchline
that he's not even a cop.
Emily: yeah,
Yeah.
And how he like responds and he
just is like, all right, get on the
Ben: just an asshole.
Emily: So good.
Yeah.
Ben: is just a great, a asshole.
Emily: Do we wanna do a recap
of the movie real quick?
Ben: We can do this.
It's the past.
Witches are around, they're eating
the light, they're sucking the
life horse side of kids and making
weirdly sensual moans while they do.
So I didn't like that part.
Emily: yeah.
So that.
Ben: they turned the brother
into a cat and make him immortal.
And then the rest of the village is
like boot kid murdering witches they
just fucking hang those witches.
But she puts a very
elaborate, specific curse.
That's honestly a bad curse
cuz it takes 300 years for it
to kick in and for someone to
actually bring her back to life.
Some real Rita Ulsa getting off the
moon type shit because we get California
skeptic max, who doesn't believe in
Halloween, but he wants to impress
Emily: in peace.
Ben: He believes in peace and he is
got his little sister Danny, who's
way better than him in every way
and is way more interested and is
way more fun as a protagonist, if
only because she likes Halloween.
And I also like Halloween.
Joe: Skeptic Max is seven syllables for
all of you Haiku enthusiasts out there.
Ben: there you go.
Emily: Hold on.
Ben: There's also bullies.
Well, we're gonna fucking
get to the bullies.
Just fucking trust you.
Jeremy: Straighten out our fucking Power
Ben: w we are going to get
into, yeah, this, these fucking
Balkan skull motherfuckers ice.
Arguably the most nineties dressed
man in the universe and fucking
giggling hyena Young Steven Tyler.
Over here is the other bully.
Emily: It was funny, I was watching
this with the Yeah, Jay and Silent and
not So Silent Ice, but like Jay, I,
my, my buddies, I had one of my buddies
with me and who's in her twenties,
so she's much younger than I am.
But she was still like, man, back in
high school, all my friends would've
just like dropped trial for Jay.
So,
Ben: okay.
No, you say that Jay looks good in
pictures, but then you watch him and I'm
so glad Jay wasn't in much of that movie
because fucking, at least eight times he
just fucking like throws his head back and
just falls on like green goblin cackles
and it is the most annoying fucking laugh.
It was like weird and fun, but then
by like fucking Cackles six, I'm
like, I need Jay to get fucking dead.
Like now.
Anyway, they steal his shoes cuz we're
in a magical world where this 15 year
old boy is clearly the same size shoes
as these bullies who get fucked if they
weren't, at least in their mid twenties.
So, to impress Allison, they go to the
Anderson sister house and him being a
little bit, you know, being a cocky big
shot, wanting to not be a virgin anymore,
which he is, as the movie will remind
you constantly to a uncomfortable degree.
He decides he's gonna light the
candle cuz it's not real, except
Uhoh, the black flame candle is, and
the Sanderson sisters are back and
they're dumb, but they want the, so
Emily: is immaculate though,
Ben: Oh, the drip is so, oh, the drip.
Oh, let me tell the fucking drip.
Somal came and they fucking did the,
they fucking laid out a curated drip
for all three of these Sanderson sisters
Emily: think the devil was their, like
they definitely had like either the devil
or a demon who are all real because how
else are they gonna have their power?
Fucking Oh, black
Ben: was the devil from Vivi.
You,
Emily: black
Ben: not convince me that hocus
pocus and the village don't
take place in the same universe
somehow.
Emily: so pissed off that the
new Hocus Pocus movie didn't
have Anya Taylor Joy in it.
Like them being like, oh sisters,
we have to go talk to the bad witch.
Shabbat coming from blah blah, blah.
And it's like, fucking Anya Taylor Joy.
And it's like Thomas
Ben: which is really, which is
honestly really weird cuz it
kind of feels like Anya Taylor.
Joy is an everything these
Emily: right.
That's why I'm saying
like, get her in there.
Then probably the movie would've
done better if she was in it and
she could, and she'd be like,
Oh, no, no, no.
I'm just saying like, she's great.
She's great to be in it.
And she could be there and she'd
be in the prettiest dress and
she'd be eating all the butter
and she'd be like, Satan's great.
And the Sanderson says, she's like,
damn, can we, can we pull that off?
Damn.
Jeremy: I have a strong
Ben: I'm just
Jeremy: Jessica Parker would not
allow herself to be on the screen
at the same time as Anya Taylor Joy.
Ben: that that feels accurate
also, Emily, the scene.
Yeah.
The, the scene you just
painted, like with your words.
I'm just what that interpreted in my head.
I'm just imagining Anya Taylor Joy and
like a fancy, like gown at a super nice
restaurant sitting at the table, just
like staring at someone just eating
a stick of butter like it was a corn
Emily: Yeah.
Hell yeah.
Hell yeah.
Oh my God.
She's like, I got, I figured it out.
I juiced all the babies.
The problem that you guys have
is that you have to like breathe.
The weird air around the kids,
and that's uncomfortable.
I just go off screen and juice a baby.
Ben: just a little, just
a little baby juice.
That's a treat.
So anyway, the Sanderson
sisters need to try to get their
book back from Max and Danny.
They bring back d Doug Jones, their
fucking Winifred, zombie X, and we pretty
much get about like, 50 minutes to an hour
of Halloween chase around shenanigans.
Ultimately ending with, you know,
the witches supposedly defeated,
but not being able to get the book
and the sunrise is gonna kill him
because that's would the rules.
The movie decided it's a movie,
it's fictional, it can do that,
it can make up its own rules.
But.
They, but Max and Ally they open the book.
So boom, big light comes up.
They get the book, they kidnap
Danny more action scenes take place.
They, you know, until we finally
get back to the cemetery, which is
our big Act three climax cemetery,
where it's a race against time.
Can the witches suck up a
kid's soul before sunrise?
No.
Emily: Zombie.
Dutch Jones is there.
Ben: Yeah, they die.
Zombie Doug Jones, like,
just fucking like thumbs up.
Peace out to be the only char
to be the only other character
to return in the sequel.
Regular
Jeremy: always available.
Ben: Doug Jones is always down.
Banks gets to go be a ghost human
and go to heaven with his fucking
re, with his Hallmark greeting
card of the little sister.
Emily: So first thing, how pissed would,
if you're Danny, how pissed would you be
that you would no longer have an immortal
talking cat that you can like give to
your children and your children's children
Ben: Danny was fucking gaming this out of
her, like of her family as
just the generation's long
keeper of this immortal cat.
Emily: Yeah.
Like, I'm totally like, come on, what?
I want that to be my legacy.
I want to, I want like a talking black
cat that is immortal that I can, I can,
I would, I might even have a kid if
Ben: Who wouldn't
Emily: a
Ben: a
Emily: black cat.
Ben: who wouldn't want a non sassy Salem?
The
Emily: Even a sassy Salem.
Ben: sa?
Well, I'm saying he is the non sassy.
He is like he is B grade.
Salem from Sabrina.
Emily: Yeah.
Well, the only problem I think
with Max is that he, or not Max,
what's the kids, what's the banks
Ben: Bx Cuz fucking th koy.
Emily: F e banks.
Real quick, speaking of Drip, when
uh, F Banks went, when in there
to save his sister and failed, he
was so, Like dripping with sweat.
Like how did
Jeremy: He climbed up the
water wheel to get in there.
Emily: Okay.
But he was like sweaty before that.
I don't know why.
He was just like
Jeremy: mean, he did grip his male
friend and, and scream very loud past
his ear about going to get his sister.
I don't know what was up with any of that.
Emily: but it was a
Ben: BX is gay.
You, you know exactly what's up with that.
BX is gay.
You know exactly what's up with
Emily: yeah.
Bigs is absolutely gay.
And also he, it was 1693, so that's
why everyone looks so nineties,
Joe: All those nineties haircuts.
Emily: Yeah.
All the 90 haircuts in
Jeremy: 1693, everybody had the
haircut like Jonathan Taylor Thomas.
It's
Emily: yeah.
Yeah.
Ben: It's the,
Emily: Jonathan Taylor
Thomason.
Ben: For you comic fans, it all for you.
Comic fans who weren't around
for the nineties it's the
ultimate Peter Parker haircut.
Emily: Yes.
Now speaking of the nineties, I swear
to God I've seen these gentlemen who
have, like, I Jeremy shared with us
in the chat pictures of the actors
who play Jay and Ice ice, a k a Ernie.
And I swear to God, I've seen these
gentlemen around in other stuff,
like they look incredibly familiar,
not just because I saw their, their
like slightly post cent faces
Jeremy: the guy that played Jay has been
several different police or agents of
shield or agents of, of other things.
Over the course of his career over the
last few years, he went from being apol
fema, from playing a bully to playing a
cop, which is not an uncommon trajectory.
Emily: wow.
Ben: I feel like he is gone for
being a Steven Tyler impersonator
to a Walter Goggins impersonator.
Emily: Yeah.
Joe: Okay.
All right.
Emily: Yeah.
So, what
are
Jeremy: the mustache of somebody
who wants to sell you a used
Mustang is his own saying.
Emily: I was gonna say
maybe also use Mustache.
Ben: He looks like he has the
mustache of someone who wants
to sell you a used mustache.
Emily: Thank you Ben.
Thank you.
So, it's Auntie Corner, anti Moth Corner.
Hi, it's me kids.
Let's talk a little
bit about the nineties.
We have some very nineties references.
Also, Madonna in her Cone Hits outfit is
only like a five-year-old reference in
this movie, which for children who are
the age of Danny at the time of this film.
Yeah, that could be a little bit
baffling, but and also maybe, I don't
Ben: at what age?
I don't think you're at any age.
Are you emotionally prepared to see
your mother in a Madonna Coones costume?
Emily: was gonna just get there.
Yeah.
That's
Jeremy: What age were you when you
first saw your mom and Cone Tits Just.
Ben: Yeah.
Like what is the what, what
is the appropriate age?
Because I, I'm in my thirties
and I just don't think I'm
the appropriate age for that.
Emily: I mean I saw Madonna's Coits
when they were like new and I was still,
you know, and I was younger than Danny
and I was like, that's interesting.
And I thought it was hilarious.
And whether if my mom dressed up
like that, I probably would've died.
I probably would be dead now
because I just would die of,
of complete nutter shock.
Jeremy: I think the only way to
see your mom dress as Madonna with
cone tits and survive is to like,
as an adult, find a photo of a
young version of your mom trusting
Emily: yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
I think.
Jeremy: yeah, I see.
Emily: Yeah, I mean, you'd still would
get a bit of a shock of gray hair,
but then at least that's fashionable.
You know, you can go, you can
dye it, you can do whatever.
Jeremy: Seeing your dad in the
cone tits, that's a little.
Emily: Dad in the context would be
almost like relieving, honestly.
Ben: I do want to appreciate that this
fucking town, this fucking town's city
hall, Halloween party, fucking hanging.
Emily: Yeah.
Those guys in there like
corpse
Ben: party.
Emily: Yeah.
And this like
Ben: Lo, love the corpse makeup.
Corpse makeup was amazing.
Fucking,
Jeremy: Scott Band and the carbs makeup.
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: They got a ska band
at the Halloween party.
How much more fucking nineties
can this movie honestly get?
Emily: Well, the main bully to
be Cool tries to be Vanilla Ice.
The kid is supposed to be tough.
Who's trying to be cool.
Ben: He has like a Dan Flash's shirt,
a floor length trench coat, hat that
looks like a fedora, combined with Fedor.
Emily: He is.
He kind of is like a cross between
Ben: Oh.
And change.
Don't forget the change.
I can't forget the chains.
Emily: Yeah.
He's a cross between like ducky from
pretty and pink and like a ska guy, like
a member of the squirrel nut zippers
Jeremy: His favorite X-Men
is definitely gambit.
Emily: Absolutely.
Ben: did y'all know that if you make a
pentagram out of Beanie Babies and then
play, that's the impression that I get.
You can actually summon ice.
Emily: Like the ice, ice baby.
Or the
Ben: No, like the
character from Hocus Pocus.
Emily: Yeah.
He's in the, one of the
lesser gr wars of of Solomon.
Ben: He is the nineties demon.
Emily: Yeah.
Unlike Mite, who's the eighties demon.
So we have that.
So, you know, the reason the dude says
ice and he has ice carved in the back
of his hair is cuz of Vanilla, ice.
And kids, if you don't know who
Vanilla Ice is, don't worry about it.
If you wanna know who Vanilla Ice is,
Jeremy: I watch his HGTV show.
Emily: watch his H GT V show.
Or better yet, watch Teenage
Mutant Ninja Turtles.
Two Secret of the Ooze and
which will probably be more fun.
He's the one who says, go ninja.
Go Ninja.
Go.
Ben: Go Nja.
Go Nja.
Jeremy: He's responsible
for the ninja rap among
Ben: I'm sorry.
That's a, I'm sorry.
That course is a banger.
Go ninja.
Go Nja.
Go.
I'll bang to that one any day.
Emily: I mean, it's not as good as Tu
R t l e Power, but that's like digital
underground, so that's kind of an
unfair standard for ice of the vanilla.
Jeremy: Any flavor of ice really.
Ben: I do like that the last
we see of these bullies, they
are still trapped in cages.
Emily: and to a round
of row, row over boat.
They're not bad singers.
Ben: At what point one of the teases
they give to Max is they ask him if
he's dressed as a new kid on the block,
Emily: yeah, that's another one.
New Kids on the Block.
Joe: Great cartoon as well.
Emily: great
Ben: Marky Mark and the funky punch.
Emily: Yes.
That reference uh, Marky Mark
has not aged quite as well.
But anyway, um, so this has been
your journey through the nineties
and especially the nineties that
was experienced by white people on
the East Coast, even though I was on
Jeremy: Yeah.
Which let's make no mistake, this entire
movie is an experience of white people.
There's.
Emily: Yeah, it is white people
Ben: Oh yeah, There is not a drop of
melanin anywhere in this fucking movie.
Emily: except where there's the,
the I, what I assume is the black
population of this town dressed up
as the supreme singing backup singers
for the, the very white Sanderson
sisters singing aversion of screaming.
Jay Hawkins, I put a spell on you.
So that's a thing, I guess.
Joe: I, I will also say this was
my introduction to that song.
Really?
Like, like being aware of that.
So like, yeah, cuz yeah, I, I, I was
pretty young when the movie came out, so.
Emily: I will proudly announce.
My hipster fashion that my introduction
to screaming Jay Hawkins was the X-Files.
Joe: Okay.
Emily: They had him do a bunch of songs
on the X-Files and it was on the X-Files
album, songs in the key of X, which is
Jeremy: Oh boy.
Emily: very nineties.
Jeremy: I think we should really
talk about the feminism of this
movie and the fact that we know that
Billy Butchers son's un reanimated
corpse because he was dating Winnie
and then fooled around with Sarah.
So when he killed him and
cursed him, sewed his mouth
shut and buried him underground.
Emily: But they're still sisters
and they love each other.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Emily: Yeah,
Jeremy: the other hand,
Ben: Oh, yeah.
No, they,
Jeremy: lives as a zombie, all
of it forever and has his mouth
shown up for 300 years underground.
Ben: you punished the dude,
the, the bond of sisterhood.
Like that's too important.
Emily: especially when you're in a coven.
Jeremy: Also I, I did wanna
add that I, in looking
up stuff about this movie, discovered
that Doug Jones had a, a plastic
attachment with dentures that went in
his mouth so that he could have real
mouths in his mouth in that scene.
Or they cut the, they cut the
thing and he blows out mouths
Ben: Doug Jones is such a fucking trooper.
Emily: He's so good.
And this is, this is two
Ben: Nothing but the best
things for Doug Jones.
Emily: Speaking of the best things for
Doug Jones, this is two years before
his incredible role in Tank Girl
Joe: Yes, it's true.
Emily: alongside ice tea as a kangaroo.
Joe: Speaking of the feminism of the
movie, this, this might be a stretch.
I'm just thinking you, you know,
reflecting on the movie, but
I'm pretty sure it's a guy who.
Made the mistakes that led to everything
that happened in this movie, more
or less in, in terms of, you know,
Ben: It is,
Joe: like messing up
Ben: oh, yeah, Dan, Danny and
Allison did nothing wrong.
Emily: absolutely not.
Joe: and it's, they're always asking
male authority figures and they're the
ones that don't believe them when they
mention the trouble they're all in.
Jeremy: Be fair.
It is revealed that the cop
that they try to ask who is
useless is not actually a cop.
He's just a guy at a cop costume.
Joe: Yes, that is true.
But they keep appealing to what they
presume are male authority figures.
Ben: they they go to the dad afterwards
who is also who is of no help.
Yes.
It is interesting that like this movie is
really focused on being hyper aware of and
judging the sexual activity of young boys.
For once young girls get a
pass on their sexual activity,
Emily: That's true.
Jeremy: I feel like it's lately
imply that Allison is not a virgin
Emily: Yeah, that's true too.
Ben: D it is a hundred
percent implied that Allison
is not a virgin.
Joe: now that you say that, I wasn't
thinking about that at all, but I believe
like, was it maybe like five or six
years ago or something that there were
like articles of about that, that were
like being shared, like prominently,
Ben: Yes, because that was the era
where we had, where we had to take
this very campy Halloween kids movie.
Very seriously.
I say on the podcast where we
take H movies very seriously.
Emily: we take
Joe: Yes,
Emily: They never agreed to this.
Ben: just because I live in a glass house
doesn't mean I can't throw a stoner two.
Emily: I
Joe: it's true.
Emily: as long as it's sugar glass,
Joe: Ooh.
Emily: sugar glass is delicious.
Anyway Also this movie's feminist
because Sarah Jessica Parker's
character is a total gremlin.
She's like the most gremlin of
them and she's the sexy one.
And I love it.
I love that for her.
Ben: I mean, Bette Midler is allowed
to do everything Bette Midler does
for the entirety of the movie.
So I'm gonna say it's feminist for that
Emily: Yeah.
Well, I, I think recently Bette
Medler had some, some bad things
to say on Twitter, but you know,
but in this movie was before that.
And we're gonna give it
the benefit of the doubt.
Ben: Look, you try to judge
people by their actions and.
The actions of Bette Midler's life is
that no matter what she may say or believe
she has in actuality inspired goddamn
allegiance of drag queens with this
Emily: Doubt that's true.
Yeah.
you cannot unmake her influence.
And there's a lot
Ben: tell me that.
Emily: Sanderson sisters out
there that were, you know, that
that transitioned to B Sanderson
sisters because of Bette Midler.
So there,
Jeremy: She's, she's, I feel
like in the same category with
like share in that respect,
Joe: Yeah.
Ben: Yeah.
so the one thing that, it's not political,
but I really wanna talk about it.
It's not something I really picked up, but
maybe I haven't seen it since the HD era.
Cg.
I don't know what effects were
used to make BX the cats, but
they were extremely uncanny.
Cat Valley,
Emily: Oh yeah, the, the
talking part was bad.
Ben: disturbing.
His face was always a little
out of sync with the cat
body.
Jeremy: apparently the original version
of that that they created like the
special effects team was like, we
really wanna make it look like a cat.
And then like it came to Disney and Disney
was like, cats are fucking horrifying.
Did you know that?
Emily: Yeah,
Jeremy: give it smaller teeth,
Emily: yeah,
Jeremy: make it less scary?
Emily: I remember that I watched a
special on Hocus Pocus when it came out
and it was about the CGI for the cat.
Cuz this was one of the few movies
in the nineties that had a cat
that was not like, fuck this cat.
Because there's a lot of like, problem
child movies where like cat abuse was
played for lefts in a lot of these movies.
Ben: Was a whole movie that was
just like, what if cats versus Dogs
was an ancient conspiracy, and the
cats were just objectively evil.
Emily: yeah.
Joe: It Was less
Ben: was not a good movie.
Joe: than uh, the animatronic Salem in
the Sabrina show was a bit like more
jarring, I don't think by much, but like
it's in
Emily: like a hugely jarring
difference between their puppet
cat and their real cat, because the
puppet cat, you could like see the
stitches on its nose, you know, like,
Ben: I think with Salem the effect
was worse, but it, it bothers me less.
Like, this is like uncanny, this is
explicitly the uncanny valley effect.
But for a cat,
Emily: yeah, it was, it was definitely
easier to take when it was on like VHS
and V and, and like old TV and now, and I
Jeremy: give it this, The CGI
is better than the CGI in the
first Resident Evil movie, which
is, you know, it's several years
Ben: It's like the cat's eyes
are just always kind of like
subtly shifting in ways that like
a cat's eyes don't move around.
Emily: Well, it was 1993 when, when
Jurassic Park came out and, you
know, the c g I was this new thing.
And so we were like seeing all of this.
I remember them like breaking
down the, some of the uh,
cat, c g talking and stuff.
And they did specify.
They're like, we have to make these
cats' teeth small, smaller, because
it has to be a nice kitty cat.
Ben: Yeah.
Jurassic Park never figured out how do we
make the Raptors talk until the third one?
Joe: I saw that in theaters with like my
grandpa, that third Jurassic Park movie.
Emily: But yeah, But other than that,
other than all the CGI stuff, this cat is
actually a fucking fantastic cat actor.
And there's a lot of really great, like,
I don't know how they train the cat,
but they have so much like fantastic cat
Ben: wait,
Emily: when,
Ben: Danny's hugging him in
the bed and he starts purring.
Oh, that, that, that,
that, warmed my cold heart.
Emily: the per, the per I'm pretty
sure was superimposed, but like
there's a couple scenes where you
see the cat like bounding after them,
and it's very definitely a real cat.
And all of the cat's like,
body language is very positive.
You know, like I can see when someone
throws a cat into a, into a scene,
you know, like you could tell when
someone is tossing a cat into a scene
or when a cat is in a scene and only
there to like, Get the food, but like
they had this cat like batting at the
actor's face and he had like the cat
like jumping behind people and always
with like proper cat body language.
And so, and I feel like that's
an important, I mean, this cat
is up there with the cat from the
girl walks home alone at night.
And they didn't and then girl
walks home alone at night.
They, there was no c g i, it was
just the cat looking at the camera.
But yeah, definitely worth
it for the cat, the cat door,
the cac, the C ktar, the ktar.
I was doing AAR mo
Jeremy: oh, I, I, we, I'm sure everybody
knows Emily has her elbows bent.
One arm is up, one arm is down,
lean slightly to the side.
Emily: And I do the,
and I'm doing the thing
Jeremy: so the international symbol
Emily: 1000.
Okay.
Anyway.
Jeremy: Here's the question.
For me, nobody is actively queer
in this movie, but given the
cast, is it, is it a gay movie?
Is it, is it LGBTQIA plus movie?
Joe: I think Bette Midler
makes it an automatic, but
Ben: Yeah, I mean, it's what this movie
gave to queer audiences is so undeniable.
I mean, this is, this movie is camp.
This movie may not be gay, but
it is clearly for the gays.
All the little, all the little
gay outsider children who needed
a Halloween and dressing up to,
you know, like finally be seen.
And that was something because again, you
know me, I'm not a big fan of Christmas
movies because they make me feel,
feel about religious minority status.
But Halloween movies are great cuz
Halloween was always like, hey, this big
mega tradition with all the pageantry
and scale and all that fucking everyone.
That's for everyone.
You can be on that.
You don't get to be a part
of that other thing, but you
can be a part of this thing.
Jeremy: Yeah, it's also like, a white
Anglo holiday uh, like from a start,
but also the people that hate it the
most aren't also white and uh, waspy.
Like I just, they just hate
Halloween so fucking much.
I, I grew up
Ben: cuz Halloween is the.
Best fucking holiday.
There is
Emily: well, speaking
Ben: love.
I wish it was Halloween right now.
Emily: can be in your heart, but
Ben: It's always is.
Emily: by the way April 30th,
it, while perish knocked is
the Halloween of the spring.
So if the more that, except that one's
more about fucking, but like, you
know, we don't have to have that part.
Jeremy: not as good to go to your
neighbor's house on that day.
Emily: Yeah,
Ben: so's right?
So's regular Halloween if you do it right.
Emily: Exactly.
So like,
Jeremy: That's sort of the
bonus round on Halloween.
Well, Fergu snack is
like the main event, you
Emily: yeah, yeah, yeah.
But they
still
Ben: gotta celebrate Summer ween.
We, you gotta get out
your uh, Jack O' Mellon.
Emily: Yeah.
But speaking of white people and
swingers, that fucking like Regency
Baroque party that Allison's family was
putting on, like Allison was leaving
because that was gonna be an orgy,
Jeremy: that's the only possible way
that a Halloween costume or that a
Halloween party in a town that size
has that intricate of a costumes.
If it's, if this is actually an orgy.
Emily: Yeah.
If this is eventually
because that was, that was
Ben: doing straight up.
Eyes wide shut
Emily: they're doing an eyes wide.
She
Ben: wide shut.
Joe: But, but what I think actually like
for at least like, you know, the cis
white, gay community the, the last time
I watched this movie was with a flock
of gays, which is about five to seven.
And
Ben: That does feel like the best
environment to watch this movie in now.
Joe: yeah,
And I feel like based on that
experience, that it's about sort of self
inserting into the Sanderson sisters
with you and your other gay friends,
Emily: yeah.
It's about being a coven.
Jeremy: Sharing your hatred for children.
Joe: yeah.
You know, so, so I think it's that
element of that self insertion and that
why it's attractive to those communities
and stuff that like, add to it.
Emily: If you could have the drip, if you
could have the ability to fly the magic
powers, the, the quality, would you, okay,
first of all, I would absolutely do it.
Jeremy: Are you gonna say,
how many children would you
murder to get that power?
Is what you're asking?
Emily: Actually I wasn't,
but I, I was gonna say that.
I was gonna say, how many kids would
you eat or would you eat a kid?
Four.
Ben: Look, there's some kids
that just have bad vibes.
There's some kids that's like, eh,
Jeremy: Do you really wanna eat
a kid with bad vibes though?
I mean,
Joe: that's, that's where I was going.
I was like, oh.
Ben: Oh, you know what?
That's a good point.
You gotta have the good vibe.
It, it's a real risk reward
type of uh, scenario.
Jeremy: end up with a
Victorian child haunting you just standing
in your, your hallways pointing at things.
I don't,
Ben: you brought up the ability to fly.
And one thing this movie introduces
that doesn't follow up on, that I
would love to see get focused on is
the three random little girls who
steal the actual flying broomsticks.
Emily: Yeah.
Hell yeah.
Hell yeah.
Ben: Like, and then just,
Emily: girls.
You know
Ben: those girls, like, do they fall
out of the sky when the witches died
or do they just have permanent flying
broomsticks an now and like that's
their whole deal and like they're
in a whole other fucking movie.
Emily: you know what their names are.
Nancy, fuck was the other ones.
Joe: We know where this is going, but.
Emily: Fuck, I can't
remember their other names,
Rachel.
True.
Jeremy: I'm glad you introduced
this question and then did
not know the answer, Emily.
Emily: I didn't do my research,
whatever.
Ben: Joe, I've done this podcast long
enough to know uh, I know where this
is going, is never a thing that should
be said about what Emily is talking.
Emily: So how many kids
would you eat to fly?
Joe: I don't think I, I could, I'm sorry.
I'm, I'm boring like that.
Emily: It's all good.
I was, I was having this conversation
with my roommate about the
morality of the witch and the
vivi juicing a baby for flight.
Because
Ben: I feel like I'd over
promise, like I'd say four, and
then I'd get through two kids.
I'd been like, man, I'm
starting to feel bad.
Hey.
It's like, man, I've already killed two.
Like I guess it's sunk cost fallacy.
You might as well kill two more kids.
Jeremy: It is just like Tim Song,
Ben: you know, at that point I'm
wanted for like killing two kids.
I better go all the way and get
that flight so I can get away.
At that point, it's like,
it's like, what's your start?
You gotta go all the way.
Joe: Once you pop the fun,
Emily: this, I don't blame you.
If you wanna cut this,
Jeremy: this is the best
Ben: Don't you cut a goddamn thing?
Emily: I just know that.
Alicia does not approve
of, child uh, endangerment.
And
Ben: smash, cut to Ben Conn getting
ca like fired from all books.
Quote.
Yeah, I'd probably kill about four kids.
End quote.
Joe: but you'd feel bad
and that's the important
Ben: I'd feel.
Yeah.
And they'd be like, oh, well if
you, if you, if you listen more,
they'd say they'd feed, they'd
kill too before they feel bad.
So really they, they'd
definitely be a child murderer.
Emily: But
Ben: that we hear progressively horrified.
Do not endorse choosing babies.
Emily: don't
Ben: We prefer your babies.
Go unju
Emily: especially
before
Ben: and that, and you can vote for that.
Emily: Just maybe every month.
But um, thanks for,
ignoring that I said that
Ben: Was that what we were doing or was
it just more a little stunt silence?
Emily: yeah.
The, in 1693, the morality of a baby
juicing does that, which is that.
Morally evil?
Or is this, is she just
managing her resources?
Joe: But, but speaking of 1693, this
is gonna be so out of left field and
there's no other better way for me
to come up with a segue for this.
But you know what, you know what?
We didn't have in 1693 margarine.
We didn't have margarine until 1869.
So why the hell would Mary
Sanderson suggest cooking
squad with a little margarine?
Emily: because they, picked up on the
uh, contemporary references real quick.
Ben: There's a margarine
creating spell in the spell book.
Jeremy: there's a point where they're
driving away from the witch's house
and the witches are chasing them
on the broomsticks, and fucking
Winnie comes up to the window and
asks if he has his learner's permit.
And I was like, fuck.
Does Winnie Sanderson know
about learner's permits?
She's from the 16 hundreds.
Like not learner's permits.
Not licenses, not cars like.
Ben: This, this movie really relies
on a lot of fish out of water comedy,
except for when they inexplicably
know hyper-specific references.
Emily: wishes, the devil gave
them the power to enjoy the taste
of margarine and pretty dresses.
Joe: But like, but yeah, exactly.
Like the learn is per the stuff.
They seem really fine with indoor
electricity and cars and like being in
cars, like in a way where it's just like,
Emily: You can't be a wish
if you're not adaptable.
Ben: like that they are routinely tricked
just by being told things are things
like they're just told that are burning
water and they legitimately just ride
on the ground for a solid three minutes.
Emily: listen, they were still cooling
off from being dead for 300 years.
Like I feel like there's a moment
like when, when finally, when Winifred
is like, wait a minute, this is a
party, this ist a Sabbath like that.
I mean, this is a, this is
a fucking vanilla party.
Joe: it took them way
too long to get there.
It took
them so long to
Emily: But once they got
Ben: them with a headlight.
They trick them with a headlight, a thing.
The sisters have now seen many
of, by this point in the film,
Emily: They word pink.
Jeremy: They put a filter
over the headlight.
Ben: they did put a filter over it.
That's
Jeremy: So tricky.
Yeah.
Uh, That, that's also that same scene
is where uh, the bullies are sitting
there picking on him and calling
him Hollywood in their little cages.
And when he picks up on the fact
that it's funny to, for some reason
to call him dude like the bullies
are like, yeah, it's hilarious.
Ben: Also the, the bullies, who is
this family's house that is just
letting a whole gang of bullies
hang out right outside their stoop?
Just the mucking children for candy.
Andy
Emily: probably one of the
parents of the bullies.
Ben: like, that's his house, right?
Like that's j r ICE's house.
Right.
Jeremy: My daughter was incensed that they
were literally taking candies from babies.
Emily: Yeah,
Jeremy: Like, this is just, it's so wrong.
Why do they do that?
And I was like, oh, it's so you
don't have to feel bad about
anything that happens to them.
After this point in the movie,
Emily: I have less sympathy for
the bullies than I do the Sanderson
sisters, and I don't think that
I'm, I'm a minority in this, like
yeah, I think we all have less
Ben: The Sanderson Si.
The Sanderson sisters are charismatic
and only, you know, kill one girl.
Jeremy: And as far as I know, it
doesn't matter how many
Ben: many kids and
they're not charismatic.
Jeremy: it doesn't matter how many kids
these bullies steal candy from, they
don't seem to get the power of flight.
And that's really, I think we've
established, that's our line right there.
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: Yeah.
Joe: But, I mean, I wish the magic
of the powers were like a little
more consistent cuz it's like they're
really powerful except when they
can't be because the movie would end.
Emily: Yeah, I kind of brought,
I kind of accepted that as sort
of par for the course for a movie
that is fucking paper thin, but
Jeremy: Yeah, they, they do manage
to hypnotize an entire party full of
adults into dancing themselves, possibly
to death if they hadn't been stopped.
Emily: they only have so many spell slots.
Okay.
Ben: I mean, they did have to dance
until about 6:00 AM I'm like, a few
of them had to have actually died.
Jeremy: oh yeah, there's,
there's corpse is in that place.
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: City Hall is strewn with corpses.
Yeah, I, I do have to say this movie
as far as racial and social justice
the closest it comes to having any sort
of reference to it is the racist ass
candy that's in the Sanderson's house
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: Alicia noticed.
It's, yeah, it's got some,
some really horrible Asian
stereotypes on the, the candy.
Apparently it's real candy, so
I don't know how much the movie
can be blamed for that, but yeah.
It's what?
Cherry clan or,
Emily: Yeah.
This is, it's it's not good.
Very, yeah.
Jeremy: that's the closest they have to
any real, like, racial representation
Besides background characters in this
movie as we said, it's very white and this
movie doesn't care about class either.
It's everybody is sort of upper
middle class in this film.
Emily: I mean, I guess good on the the
candy company for choosing the red chew
candy as opposed to the lemon candy.
Jeremy: I mean, they already had
lemonheads that's, that's locked down.
Emily: Yeah.
But I mean, to be racist at
or with, I don't know, the,
the candy's racist, whatever.
I mean, we are also like, you know,
in terms of Asian representation,
we're only a few years out from
like 16 candles, so, you know,
Ben: This
Emily: it could have broken bad
Ben: it's.
This is still an era where it's
disturbingly common for a gong
sound effect to accompany an
Asian character's dialogue.
Emily: yeah.
So I mean,
Ben: It's, it's not great.
Emily: It's, it's, it is not great.
But you
Ben: Pretty bad.
One would in fact argue
Emily: lot of these movies didn't do so
hot, and I've referenced like Teenage
Mu Ninja Turtle's Secret of the Ooze,
and that movie is a lot better at
Asian representation than many films
that don't feature mutant turtles.
Ben: hell yeah.
Fucking secrets of the user's.
Got the Surf Ninja in it.
Emily: It's got the Surf
Ninja.
Um,
Ben: Fuck yeah.
You got Ernie Reyes Jr.
Just fucking kicking ass.
Emily: yeah, I love that kid.
I had such a crush on that
Ben: Fuck yeah.
Now I haven't, I haven't seen it in
about probably about 22 years, and I'm
very afraid to see it in case it does
not hold up, which it probably won't.
But I remember Sir Ninjas
being pretty badass,
Emily: Oh, I, I was talking
about Secret of the Ooze.
I don't remember.
Surf Ninja's.
Other I've, I remember seeing it.
Ben: even fucking kidding me, was like she
reviews was like no good as the first one,
Joe: Yeah.
I, I used to watch surf
digs fairly recently.
Emily: Why?
Just out of
Joe: For, for for a different like,
stream for, for pop culture philosophers.
And it was yeah, it's whew.
It's, um,
it's it wouldn't do very well in multiple
categories featured on this channel,
if that like is
Ben: yeah, no, I remember it be again,
did not pick up when I was a kid.
But now even just the Vegas surface level
memories are like, oh yeah, that movie
was crazy misogynistic, like just women
existed to be objectified in surf Ns.
That was their only role.
Bad movie.
Definitely I, I'm guessing with Rob
Schneider in the cast in the year it came
out, and I'm guessing there's just some
Emily: Rob Schneider was in
Ben: really, oh, Rob
Schneider's in that movie.
I'm guessing there's some really woof.
Also doesn't that movie end with Leslie
Nielsen grabbing his dick to death?
Joe: No, he yeah, but then he like
hits water and the water's what
kills him because he is a robot guy.
Ben: Right.
Joe: But but yeah.
And having,
Emily: sires.
Ben: You know what?
Maybe it's good that I
just don't see this movie
Joe: don't, don't do it.
It's you'll be sad.
Ben: let's just let this
one stay in the memories.
Emily: I'll just take y'all
y'all's word for it, that those are
things that happened in that film.
Cuz I swear I saw that film,
Jeremy: you think it would be better or
Emily: three Ns.
Jeremy: I think it would be
better or worse now than three
Ninjas High noon at Mega Mountain,
Ben: Yeah,
Jeremy: the one with Hulk
Ben: Hulk.
Yeah, but that had the Hulk star.
Jeremy: yeah, it's turned out to be
a real racist shithead and is into
Scientology
now.
Joe: yeah.
Ben: And
Joe: Oh
Emily: he's into Scientology now.
Jeremy: Well, he is into
Scientology stuff now.
Yeah.
I think, you know, as I remember as
a kid watching wrestling and being
really into like, there was sort of
this holy trinity of Hulk Hogan Randy
Savage and the Ultimate Warrior,
and who knew that it would turn out
that Randy Savage was the only like,
sane, indecent one of those guys.
Ben: Very fair.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Ho Hulk Hogan has turned out
to be racist and horrible.
And Like ultimate Warrior was like
racist on another insane level and
also was way coked out of his mind.
For most of the time.
He was a wrestler.
Joe: Oof.
Ben: I mean, yeah, I mean, ultimate
Warrior put in, I mean, was that just
guy just putting, taking his corn flakes
and like just making them into Frosted
Flakes, but with cocaine instead of sugar?
Jeremy: That's how it seems from,
from hearing people talk about it.
Ben: Hmm.
I mean, it's amazing that like
every time I see a video of Ultimate
Warrior, I'm amazed his heart doesn't
explode right there on camera.
Emily: You know, kids
remember Macho Man Cries too.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Ben: Oh hell yeah.
Macho man's the fucking man.
Emily: Yeah.
It's
Randy Savage.
Ben: the so hocus pocus,
it gave the gays a lot.
It's not, not, you know, it's it
gave us some absolutely delightful,
wonderful women characters.
It is fucking what
Emily: It's incredibly white.
It's, you know, it's, it's white.
It's a Disney like TV movie and it's not,
apparently it came out in the, yeah, it
came out in the theater, but it's Disney
Ben: This movie is as white as the
fucking khaki section at Kohl's.
Joe: But but, but to be clear too, with
the with the like L G B T related stuff
too, it's it, it gave, yeah, there is no
act actual, it is a, it is a completely
straight storyline where queer people
don't like technically exist unless you
know the sandy, but they're talking about
boyfriends, but who I don't want anyway,
whatever.
It's
Ben: I would give it more to
just, I'm just fucking getting
some fucking vibes from Thackery.
Joe: Sure.
Emily: bit.
Ben: is that why he's thri?
Was it?
Emily: Oh no.
Ben: Was it because he's gay?
Was this homophobic?
Emily: Is it homophobic all along?
Ben: Aw, boo
Jeremy: And his best friend Elijah.
Ben: thri.
No, it's too easy.
Fuck no bad.
Emily: Oh,
Joe: Oh
Emily: we ruined it.
We ruined it for
Ben: We did.
We really did ruin it.
Oh, why curse you brain?
Why do you always go that next step
of just taking good things
and then ruining them?
Emily: I love it, but
Ben: It does make for some fun podcast
Emily: is, it is good content.
Ben: Yay.
Content.
Jeremy: So guys, do we do we recommend,
do we recommend people watch Hocus Pocus?
Emily: oh yeah.
I watch this movie pretty
much every Halloween, like,
Ben: it's a, oh yeah, this is as fun A
Halloween sta like staple as you'll get.
Like this is if you got
kids, nieces, nephews.
If you just want something innocent,
campy, and fun as hell, like, oh
yeah, this is a great October watch.
Jeremy: Yeah.
There are worse ways to spend 96
minutes, and if this movie were made
today, there is no way in hell it
would be ready to just straight up pg.
Um,
Joe: Yeah.
Emily: Also, you know, I will say one
thing about this movie is that there are
some, the, they're, they're cartoony, but
there are scenes of cat death, which for
me, I can't, I can't watch the part where
he's like, on the ground, like the cat is
on the ground after the bus ran over him.
Even though it's very much a very dull
Jeremy: reinflation is
Ben: That's a cool, that's an
interesting effect.
That's,
Emily: Yeah.
But I was still like, you know, as someone
who is a, a, a time honored owner of
black cats and has a very, like, you know,
loves my, loves my black cats, it's hard.
But that's, that's me.
But you know what, I'll, you know,
apparently we'll murder children for
the power of flight and witchcraft.
So that's where our morality is.
So, you know, just.
You know, for a movie that is
like Super Family, I guess I
got the PG rating because every
child came out of that movie.
Every young child came outta that
movie asking their parents what,
what a virgin was, because they would
not let those kids, you know, like
nobody was gonna go out of that movie
who didn't know what a virgin was
and not like, think it was a thing.
You know?
Like they were like, wait a minute,
what do they mean by virgin mommy?
What's a virgin Like?
So
Ben: Oh yeah, there's a lot of that.
Jeremy: There people from Virginia,
you know, so obviously he is not a
virgin cause he is from California.
Joe: Yeah,
Emily: Yeah.
And
in Massachusetts it's right there.
Ben: That does remind me of the time
a kid got sent out, the principal in
fourth grade for calling another kid
a lesbian, and afterwards I asked him
what lesbian meant and he just shrugged
him on like, I think it's a country.
Joe: yeah.
I, I think it's definitely like if,
if you ever watch as a kid, it's a
good revisit if you have kids or you
know, younger people to watch it with.
Definitely.
I could see like, like if you're
just like, you know, it, it's
good in a party situation.
I think.
If you're like in your.
Ben: Watch.
Joe: If you're in like your, like, you
know, thirties, forties, fifties, you,
you, you know, et cetera, and you are
completely unaware of this somehow,
and are just like gonna, like soberly
watch it in like that void by, you know,
you're, you're probably not gonna, you
know, e e enjoy it in that context.
I, I feel, but like, you know, if
you have the nostalgia for it, if you
have kids to watch it with, or you're
in that, or you're in like a group
setting, like, I, I think it works.
Ben: Aden
Emily: if you, if you're not aware
of what is happening with this
movie's, like Complete Jadedness.
I think that, you know, like you, you
gotta appreciate just how dated it is.
We appreciated Roula.
Ben: yeah.
Addition, if you are already a Disney
adult who is just waiting for permission
to watch this movie for the 20th time,
in which case, fucking go for it.
Here is your permission.
Emily: Yeah.
We're giving you permission.
Go watch it.
Joe: Yeah, this was a staple
in my house growing up.
We had the vhs and just, it was
just on all the time, you know,
it was just one, it was in heavy
rotation for quite a while.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Of of of movies that I liked when I was
younger that have Thra Birch in them.
It's much easier to re-watch
this one than American Beauty.
I'll say that much.
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: Bear it.
It's definitely got more.
Yeah, definitely an easier watch.
Emily: This one did age
better than American Beauty.
Let me tell you what.
Jeremy: Hon on levels, there's levels to
Emily: yeah.
Jeremy: Um,
yeah, man,
Ben: And for my recommendation, I,
you know, I mentioned in a list,
but I think this pairs very nicely
on a Halloween playlist alongside
a nightmare before Christmas.
Joe: Yeah, definitely.
Emily: Watch the Vivi if you want
the Sanderson sister's backstory.
Ben: If you want the Christopher
Nolan reboot of the Sanderson Sisters
Sanderson, when a Fred begins,
Emily: Yeah.
Thomason did not juice a baby to fly.
She just
Ben: do fly at
Emily: it.
Yeah,
that's what I'm
saying.
Ben: they, I don't know what they had.
I don't know what they had to juice
to fly at the end of that though.
Emily: I mean, her whole family died,
but you know, she just put her name
in the book and, and like, you know.
Anyway so spoilers the witch And
also if you wanna see a movie that's
a family movie, but features a lot
of campy shit and actors just having
the time of their lives being evil.
Hook that movie so much fun.
Also, Dante Bosco, we've got Rufio.
That movie is a, is a delight.
Jeremy: I still quote
that movie to this day.
Emily: Oh yeah, me too.
Yeah.
And Dustin Hoffman as Captain Hook
with that, that fantastic dude.
Who's the, who's the guy,
who's his name, who plays
Jeremy: there's so many people to talk.
Emily: Uh, Mario, Mario, Bob Hoskins.
Oh my God,
Jeremy: Yeah.
Bob Haskins is the one
I always quote because
the
like, yeah, because this, this
weekend somebody said something
about having an epiphany and said,
lightning has just struck my brain.
Um, description of having an epiphany.
Yeah.
Yeah.
What's that movie?
It's fucking fantastic.
Joe, do you have a
recommendation for people.
Joe: Yeah, no, I, I said it's you know,
it's, it's probably good in, in most
circumstances, unless you're, you're
not really familiar with the movie
and you're seeing it in like a void.
Yeah.
Emily: In a void.
Joe: Like, like if you're just like, you
know, like you're completely unaware of
this and you're like an adult who's not
like at the mood to watch, you know,
like, like, it's like, oh, this is
just a movie I heard of and without any
context, you know, you, you, you might
not enjoy it in that sense, but like,
if, if you have the nostalgia for it or
if you know what you're gonna get into.
Yeah, absolutely.
Jeremy: yeah.
My recommendation would be if, if
you like hocus pocus and you're
looking for something sort of like
it to watch and there's just not
enough menacing of children in this
movie for you watch the original.
The the original of the witches from 1990
starring in Jelly Houston
as the, as the main witch.
Equally as if not more
fantastic on the witches side.
And much because it's a raw
doll book is not afraid of, of
hurting and or killing children.
Emily: Yes.
Also, Which is of Eastwick,
where the standards and sisters
like make it essentially.
And yeah, that one has Cher, so
we'll, we'll talk about it someday.
Ben: It's never a bad time to have Cher.
Emily: Indeed.
Jeremy: Darren, she like,
Joe: Yeah.
And, and I, yeah, I, I can't
think of an actual recommendation.
I'm sorry that I, I messed that one up.
I'm just like, I can't think of another
Jeremy: it's fine.
Ben: No, it's tough.
I always forget
Joe: Yeah.
Well, no, cuz cuz I mean this is
such a specific kind of, Kids movie.
You know what, actually now
I'm talking myself into it.
Do you guys remember?
Or anyone here remember
that movie for oh my God.
Like Tim Curry's in it?
Jeremy: Legend.
Joe: No, but it's that like, it's
that Halloween movie about it.
It's Oh my God.
Ben: worst
Emily: The worst witch.
Joe: Yes.
The Worst
Emily: Oh hell
Ben: Yes.
Joe: Yeah.
I was like, actually, you know what?
Yes.
That's it.
That's it.
I figured it out.
I knew it.
Yes.
No, the The
Worst Witch that, that song
towards the end is incredible and
you can listen to it on its own.
It
Emily: It's on YouTube by itself.
Look up anything can happen on Halloween.
The Worst Witch, Tim Curry, any of those.
Joe: Yeah.
Emily: If you ever wanted a, an
just watch of ad for the video
toaster starring Tim Curry.
It was an old like video editing
gimmick program that is basically
an ad for the video toaster cuz
it's all like super gimmicky.
100%, 1990s effects.
That one.
Although there were some actually
really great practical effects in
that movie too, which, you know, the
worst wish is actually pretty cute.
Joe: Is pretty cute.
Emily: yeah.
Jeremy: I feel like we've hit all the,
all the potential recommendations other
than like Halloween Town, but, you know,
Halloween Town has Debbie Reynolds in
it, so you should just watch that anyway.
Joe: true.
Jeremy: all right.
I think that does it for us.
Joe, did you wanna let people
know where they can find out
what you're up to online?
Joe: Sure.
On, on Twitter, I'm at Joe Carlo,
that's j Oe, c o r a l l o.
And on Instagram I'm at Carlo.
Joe.
Jeremy: Nice.
Emily: Go friend, go join, go.
Go find Joe Listener, or else I will
track you down and make you, I'll
fly to your house and cackle outside.
Jeremy: She will, she's done it before.
As for the rest of us, you can find Emily
cackling outside your house or at Mega
Moth on Twitter or me at mega underscore
moth on Instagram or@megamoth.net.
Ben is on your Twitter at Ben the Con
and on their website@benconncomics.com
where you can pick up all of their
books, including a pre-order link to l
Campbell wins their weekend, their debut
middle grade novel from Scholastic.
And finally for me, you can find me on
Twitter and Instagram at J five eight
and on my website@jeremywhitley.com
where you can find everything I
wrote I write, including the brand
new the Dog Night, just out now.
And of course, the podcast is on Patreon
at progressively horrified on our website
at progressively horrified transistor
fm and on Twitter at Prague Horror
Pod, where we'd love to hear from you.
And speaking of loving to hear from you,
we would love it if you'd rate and review
this podcast wherever you're listening
to, but it helps new listeners to find us.
Thanks again to Joe for joining
us and thanks to my, my co-host as
always, and Ben, happy birthday.
Emily: Happy
Ben: Thank,
Emily: Thank you for
Ben: you for
Joe: Yes.
Continue
Emily: Please
Ben: I, I will, I, will, do my best.
I will do my best.
Thank you for coming back with me on
this blast of the past of a fun movie.
Emily: so glad we gotta talk
Joe: absolutely.
Jeremy: Well, thank you to all of
you for joining us as well, and
until next time, stay horrified.
Emily: Clap.
Jeremy: Clap.