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Step inside real founder conversations: raw, unrehearsed, and honest. No playbook. No polish. Just ambitious entrepreneurs uncovering the answers that were there all along. Because every business hides something valuable trapped under the weight of success and chaos of growth.
The Hidden Value podcast is hosted by David Sherry. David works with early-stage founders to grow professionally and personally. He founded, sold, and advises Death to Stock – a media company and newsletter that serves brands like Unfold, Figma, and Spotify.
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Tanya, thank you so much for being here.
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And I'd sent you a form ahead of this conversation that was just kind of asking a
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little bit about what was present.
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And I thought it was interesting.
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You told me about a moment you had journaling this morning and trying to kind of
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identify what it is you want to work on.
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And so where I'd love to start is tell me about like that moment this morning and
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kind of what came up for you.
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Yeah, I was going through Dickie Bush's journaling prompt thing that he has.
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I was like, I've never tried his.
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Let me try it.
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I looked it up.
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And it was like, the last question was five questions.
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The last question was,
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What do I need to do right now?
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And I was just like stuck in paralysis.
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And I chose something that has nothing to do with like the three things that I
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filled out in that form.
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It has nothing to do with those things.
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Like the actual answer I gave after like five minutes of staring at this was this
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client project that's on the deck next week.
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I could feel the default into that without like the intentional,
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this is the thing I'm working on.
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Yeah,
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everything is feel I don't want to say feels like urgent,
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but everything does feel important.
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And normally I'm really good at finding the dependencies and being like,
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oh,
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this needs to happen first.
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But it's like I'm not convinced all the way for either for like any of the things.
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So because I'm not convinced all the way, I'll just default to whatever's coming up next week.
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Yeah.
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So frustrating.
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Yeah.
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Right, because it could be, it's like, yeah, am I defaulting to what's easy?
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Am I avoiding the intention that I'm setting?
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With the things that you wrote in that list before defaulting to the client,
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Did you actually feel like those were things that really mattered to you or were
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those in some ways also a default?
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I think they're important to do.
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I don't know if I can say that they matter to me,
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but they feel important,
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which I just realized they feel important.
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And I guess when I say they feel important,
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I mean,
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I can see the leverage points for each one of them really clearly,
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but there's still like a disconnect on if they actually matter to me.
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Yeah, I think they're important.
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I can see the leverage point.
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You're like, what do you care?
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And do I care about that?
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Yeah, it's such a great thing to pull out of anything.
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So let's let's sit in like, let's allow those to kind of go away.
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Because I think you're saying in this just in this moment,
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let's stick with what you actually kind of care about.
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And let's say that those might be a good idea for somebody to do or someone in my
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position could do this and it would be beneficial for them.
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You know, is there an area or what area do you feel more connected to?
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And maybe that's not obvious to you and we can explore that,
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but is there something else that now starts to surface once those have gone away?
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Yeah, there is, but it has legitimately nothing to do with anything in the sense
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It has legitimately nothing to do with anything.
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And I want you to finish the sentence.
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Related to what?
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Related to the business.
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Okay.
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So I have something important that's coming to the surface and it has nothing to do
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related to the business.
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Yeah.
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And right now that scene is maybe not okay, but let's include it in this.
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So what's coming up?
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Yes, it was coming up for me is this this desire to compose.
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So when I was younger, I used to compose music.
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I used to do like scores for little films.
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And I haven't done it in many, many years.
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And it's just it's just something that is rising to the top.
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A lot.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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A lot.
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OK.
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More than just this.
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More than just today.
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Yeah, yeah, definitely.
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Yeah, it's just like I don't, but I also don't give any like space to it.
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So part of me is like,
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well,
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if I gave space to it,
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would it,
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you know,
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would it still be coming up as much?
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I haven't really tested that.
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So it keeps kind of like pushing up.
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It keeps kind of bubbling up and then it keeps getting kind of pushed away.
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Yeah.
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And I wonder,
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I think what we don't know is what happens if you allow,
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what would happen if you allow yourself to have some space for that?
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Yeah.
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Yeah,
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I think it's funny because for me,
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the business has always been this channel of impact,
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but it's also this big channel of freedom.
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And so in my mind, I'm like, oh, I want to do this thing.
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Let's build the runways to do this thing.
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And I kind of get stuck in that weird loop.
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I don't have the freedom yet to compose music in my business.
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Is that what you're saying?
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Yeah, that's what I tell myself, but it's like such bullshit.
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And I know that it's bullshit.
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I can feel it when I say it out loud, but there is like a mental block.
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I think there's like,
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because when I get really into something,
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I sort of fall into it,
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like truly.
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And so the idea of being like, well, I'll give myself an hour or two hours.
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It doesn't, it's just like so surface level.
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And so I'm like not even attracted to that idea.
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How many hours sounds good?
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I agree.
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One or two hours.
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It's too little, right?
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So I'm sure what's bubbling up.
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Yeah.
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Okay.
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I want a week.
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I want a week to just compose music.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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That would be good.
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And I want to build a business to have the freedom to take a week off to compose music.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Like with that being the only thing I'm thinking about.
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So those two things are aligned.
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You're building a business that can create freedom and you have this desire to
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compose music for a week.
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I think the interesting question,
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given that it keeps popping up,
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is at what point in your business will you be ready,
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able,
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available to take off a week?
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And what's preventing that from being now?
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Yeah, that's a good question.
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I think if I were to communicate it properly to certain clients, it would be fine.
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But what ends up happening is I,
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and I can see it started from afar,
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is I'll tell myself,
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well,
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I have four projects on deck.
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Let me close those out.
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If I could just really focus and do this in a sprint in four or five or six hours,
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then I'll clear it up and then,
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you know,
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have a little bit of space.
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And I tell myself that.
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But then it's like I have no creative energy left.
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I've just given it to the client.
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Yeah,
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and what I read a little,
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just for people watching and listening,
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that there's also maybe you're feeling a little less of that creative energy just
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in general,
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right?
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And so might it be that the composing is what brings that energy back?
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I think the order of operations here is kind of maybe what we're playing, which is...
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What if doing the music improves my business?
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What if that frees my creativity up?
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What if creating the space to do that helps me create a business that allows me to
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keep taking space in this way,
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which is why I'm building it in the first place?
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Man,
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David,
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my stomach is turning at the thought of that because it feels accurate and also
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like a dummy moment for me.
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This is so interesting.
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Yeah, I could see that being the case.
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I definitely know that when I am in that space of composing or making something,
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The creative energy is up.
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I guess I just never thought about it in that way.
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You can overflow into other areas of your life.
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Yeah, I think.
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Yeah.
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And I do think there's like the sense of and we talked a little bit about this last
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time where I definitely have it over responsibility.
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It's something I've been working on for a while and it's something I'm getting
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better at very slowly.
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But I think because of that, the business always comes first.
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And so it doesn't even cross my mind that put me first.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Or like,
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because there's not like a,
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there's no aim really for a monetary return on the music side.
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It is, it is for me.
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I do share it and people love it.
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I think this is something that's really interesting too,
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is people when like people will message me and be like,
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post a song,
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like just post,
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you know,
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which is so cool.
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It's so validating, but there's nothing in my brain that's like, Oh, I should, you know,
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do more with that everything has been a very personal like oh I would love to just
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take a week maybe two weeks and like just put together like four or five songs and
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just like put it out there I think that would be so fun but because I can't tie it
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to money I'm like
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That's not, that doesn't go first.
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Which I think you're enlightening me on this.
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That might be the wrong way to look at it.
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Well, and you told me the reason for the business in the first place was to have the freedom.
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Yeah.
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To do that type of thing.
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Yeah.
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And so the hard thing is when will I start participating in that freedom?
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It's really easy to have that be some fictional point in the future,
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which you probably already set a milestone that you've already crossed.
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Yeah.
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And then now it's just natural.
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We all do that, right?
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Especially as entrepreneurs, you kind of move the gold post.
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Yeah, I change it, yeah.
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And, and I think it doesn't, there's not an either or there's just sort of a more or less.
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Am I using this freedom that I've created for myself already in my business?
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I mean, I do know from our previous conversation, you've had a business for some time now.
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So am I getting some of the fruits of that labor now?
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Maybe it's not a full, maybe you don't feel ready for a full week.
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Maybe that's a few days instead.
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I'm not sure.
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what the right amount is at this stage.
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And what I hear is that you would enjoy,
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benefit,
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it would be life-giving,
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creative giving for you to have some relationship to the music soon,
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now.
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Yeah.
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When I think of my business,
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I'm super grateful because I work realistically 20 or 30 hours a week.
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And so in my brain, I'm like, I have the freedom.
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I just don't have it in the way that I want.
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Or maybe I do and I'm just not giving it to myself in the way that I want, you know?
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What type of freedom do you want?
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Let's clarify that because that's really helpful.
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Yeah, I want the immersion.
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That's a big thing for me.
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Even when I think of other things that I want to do,
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like,
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you know,
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one of my sort of,
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I don't want to call it like a bucket list thing,
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but it is a thing that I would like to do is I spent some time in Paris,
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but I would love to actually take a language class in Paris.
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I'd like to do it for a week.
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And I'd like that immersion.
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And so I think for me, freedom doesn't mean 20 hours a week.
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It means
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leaving and just like, you know, immersing myself in a thing, in a place or in an activity.
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I think that that is what freedom means to me.
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So the freedom you built in your business was a slack in your schedule that
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actually isn't being maybe used to the degree you want because the type of freedom
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you want is this deep,
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immersive experience.
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And I love that we've got some specific examples of that.
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A week in Paris, language immersion.
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Yeah.
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a week or two weeks composing music.
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And you can place these out right through the calendar year, however you want them to be.
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That's a new way of working with the freedom that you can create in your business.
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That's a great point.
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Yeah.
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Is there any other,
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just since we're in this,
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a week,
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and you don't have to do any of these,
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we're just brainstorming,
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a week in Paris learning languages,
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a week or two weeks composing.
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Anything else come to mind like that?
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Let's just add it anymore.
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Two years, oh, is it 2025?
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Yeah.
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In 2023, there was a time that I felt super inspired as in Chicago.
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And I took like, legitimately, it was about six weeks off of just like writing poems.
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And I did like a very, I was kind of in maintenance mode on the business.
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And I was fine.
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I like loved it.
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When I look back on that time, I'm like, I am so grateful for that time.
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But it wasn't planned.
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It wasn't anticipated.
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It was like, this is where I am and I can do this.
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Like, let's just do it.
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And when I look back on that, it doesn't feel like, oh, I wasted time.
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It's like one of the best times of my life.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Right.
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100%.
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I love that you have an example to pull on.
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You've done this before.
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Yeah, but I guess I haven't done it with much intention.
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I think that's what it is.
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It's like I've done it because I've sort of I've sort of fallen into it.
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And it was like, I have to in the best way.
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You know what I mean?
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And that could be your model.
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You know, I you could you can continue to do it that way.
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I think I have to do it with intention because I think to wait for that is like
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creates a weird burnout.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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So this is a great opportunity.
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We're kind of towards the end of the year.
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You know, what is what does creating this with intention look like?
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And you don't need to solve it all or have it all figured out.
(00:12:35):
But let's just look at what you might do to create more intention in freedom and
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doing some of these things in your business.
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Like, for example, would you plan your year out in advance with big time off?
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Would you tell your clients in advance just what comes to mind?
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I probably book a ticket.
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That usually is my milestone.
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Nice.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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I love that.
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Milestone is booking the ticket.
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Yeah, because I know that when that happens, I get to play.
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I know that, you know, and that's wonderful.
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I love that so much.
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It's a very great experience.
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But yeah, that's a good one.
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Even like the last time.
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So I was in London for three months and I loved it.
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And I actually went without much intention except to like take pictures of cool
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buildings and to work from there.
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Like that was like the thing that I wanted to do.
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But yeah, I do.
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I think that something happens where I'm like, yeah, I was in London.
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I took hundreds of pictures of buildings and I was like,
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oh,
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I should totally do like a little photo book of this.
(00:13:29):
It'd be so cool.
(00:13:31):
But then like the moment I start in something like that, I'm like, what am I doing?
(00:13:35):
I'm not doing anything that's,
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you know,
(00:13:37):
that's like helping the business and it's vulnerable,
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not in a good way.
(00:13:41):
Why am I doing that?
(00:13:42):
And then so I'll pull back on that project or I'll start it and there'll be like,
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you know,
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15%,
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20% of the way there.
(00:13:49):
You were still working there.
(00:13:50):
You didn't allow for the full immersion.
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Yeah.
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And so this voice,
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which is kind of a separate conversation,
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keeps kind of coming back and then it's like,
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well,
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which am I immersed or am I working?
(00:14:01):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
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And so it's like I'm never fully in either one.
(00:14:07):
So I want to kind of pause here to lay out what I think could be a fun sort of
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opportunity,
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which is defining three of these tickets that you can purchase ahead of time for
(00:14:17):
the year.
(00:14:17):
Okay.
(00:14:19):
One could be an actual ticket.
(00:14:20):
Yeah.
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And I want to share personally my relationship to what we're talking about because
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I've also navigated this a little bit,
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if that's okay,
(00:14:29):
if I share that as well.
(00:14:30):
Yeah, absolutely.
(00:14:31):
So what I found,
(00:14:33):
and I've done this with a lot of clients I work with as well,
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is when my clients and when I have set part of my calendar out ahead of time,
(00:14:41):
which actually this was inspired by Jesse Itzler.
(00:14:43):
I don't know if you've heard his stuff online or whatever, but he's got a good kind of
(00:14:47):
framing on this but what I found is that if you lay out part of your year in
(00:14:51):
advance time off something fun for you he does like hard projects that he'll put
(00:14:58):
slotted in like a trip or something like that where it's like a climb a mountain
(00:15:01):
type of thing but when you have that laid out across your year
(00:15:07):
Two things I notice happen for myself and for entrepreneurs.
(00:15:10):
One is you have all this really enjoyable anticipation.
(00:15:14):
Like you just know the stuff is coming.
(00:15:17):
Like, you know, hey, this is in my calendar.
(00:15:18):
It's happening.
(00:15:19):
Not only do I know for sure my immersion is happening, learning language is happening.
(00:15:23):
Like,
(00:15:23):
it's just exciting to just like kind of see your calendar and be like,
(00:15:27):
wow,
(00:15:27):
I just have like such a cool year like coming up and it's happening.
(00:15:32):
So there's just like an excitement that I think you get from that.
(00:15:34):
You know, the anticipation of a trip is just like fun.
(00:15:37):
And the other thing is what I noticed for founders and entrepreneurs is you have a
(00:15:40):
diversity of experience.
(00:15:43):
so that your life feels less monotonous, right?
(00:15:45):
When you get in this cycle of the client work and it's just heads down and it's
(00:15:49):
like,
(00:15:49):
you're so tunneled in,
(00:15:51):
you start to lose some of that diversity of like just rich experiences,
(00:15:56):
like I'm doing this.
(00:15:57):
And then it's like this completely other thing.
(00:15:59):
And I think founder types,
(00:16:00):
like you want to do a lot and you like excited,
(00:16:03):
you're curious about a lot.
(00:16:04):
And so like, it's nice to feed that.
(00:16:06):
And I think it balances the work really nicely as well.
(00:16:09):
It's like,
(00:16:10):
I just was learning this language and now I'm kind of back, right?
(00:16:13):
So it adds a texture to your year that I think is really,
(00:16:16):
like you said,
(00:16:16):
you remember in 2023 having that,
(00:16:18):
it's like a memorable experience.
(00:16:20):
So yeah,
(00:16:21):
book,
(00:16:21):
I would book in advance three tickets to something for yourself for next year and
(00:16:26):
then just know
(00:16:28):
I'm building my business around that.
(00:16:30):
Yeah.
(00:16:30):
I actually really, I really, I do really like that.
(00:16:34):
I think the challenge for me is going to be making them weighty, right?
(00:16:39):
So minimum a week.
(00:16:43):
Yeah.
(00:16:44):
Yeah.
(00:16:44):
Minimum a week, I would say.
(00:16:45):
And then I think sometimes I get stuck where I'm like,
(00:16:48):
oh,
(00:16:49):
you know,
(00:16:49):
if I'm going to go here for a month,
(00:16:50):
I have to do this in order to like justify or earn it,
(00:16:54):
you know,
(00:16:55):
like not doesn't make sense when I say it out loud.
(00:16:58):
But that is something that comes up.
(00:17:00):
There's also something else that comes up that I'm going to bounce off you.
(00:17:03):
But I am aware that this is probably something and it is something for me to work
(00:17:08):
through personally.
(00:17:09):
But
(00:17:10):
it came up while you were talking while you're telling that story which is i had
(00:17:13):
this experience of planning out something the big goal was taking my parents on a
(00:17:19):
trip going on a trip with my parents to europe and so we had done this and so i'd
(00:17:23):
planned this in advance so for me it was like the work was easy to do because i saw
(00:17:27):
this coming you know i saw this awesome trip coming up and then my dad passed away
(00:17:33):
like six days before the trip yeah
(00:17:35):
And there is,
(00:17:36):
like,
(00:17:36):
something,
(00:17:37):
I would say,
(00:17:38):
like,
(00:17:38):
since then that's,
(00:17:39):
like,
(00:17:39):
it's almost like I don't want to,
(00:17:44):
when I put it on the calendar,
(00:17:45):
like,
(00:17:45):
what ends up happening is I don't put it on the calendar now with this sort of,
(00:17:48):
like,
(00:17:49):
anticipation,
(00:17:49):
like,
(00:17:50):
oh,
(00:17:50):
I'm going to work really hard and then do the thing.
(00:17:52):
Because I don't think that.
(00:17:54):
Or at least my body doesn't think that.
(00:17:57):
It's more so like I'm just going to continue as normal.
(00:18:01):
And then if I get there and I'm able to go, I will go on this thing.
(00:18:04):
You know, it's like there isn't like this.
(00:18:06):
Sure.
(00:18:07):
This like confidence that like I'm going to get to do the thing.
(00:18:10):
And so because I don't have the confidence to do it, I'm like.
(00:18:14):
Do I really try hard right now?
(00:18:17):
You know what I mean?
(00:18:18):
Two things.
(00:18:18):
One,
(00:18:18):
I'm so happy you brought this up because this is an example of an experience you've
(00:18:22):
had that is really difficult around having a trip planned,
(00:18:27):
having the anticipation,
(00:18:29):
having your father pass before that.
(00:18:31):
So I really appreciate bringing that up because it's an experience that is really
(00:18:36):
informing this on some level.
(00:18:38):
And so I do think that that's something to work with.
(00:18:43):
What I'm hearing you say is,
(00:18:46):
slightly different though on top of that,
(00:18:48):
which is I need to be motivated in a certain way to get the reward of the trip or I
(00:18:54):
need to be working harder before the trip or,
(00:18:56):
and so help me understand what the point of that is.
(00:19:00):
That's a good question.
(00:19:04):
Yeah, there's definitely a sense of earning that I think is embedded.
(00:19:09):
It's like, well, if you get to do this, you have to do something for it, which I don't know.
(00:19:13):
I know that that doesn't make sense out loud.
(00:19:15):
Yeah.
(00:19:16):
And isn't the, I mean, obviously these things cost money.
(00:19:19):
They take time.
(00:19:20):
Like, I guess in some ways it isn't the earning that you're creating a business.
(00:19:23):
You already, you already earned that.
(00:19:25):
Right.
(00:19:25):
I mean, what is, you know,
(00:19:27):
Yeah.
(00:19:27):
You're like, what is the thing that I have to earn?
(00:19:30):
You're doing the work already.
(00:19:32):
I think we're talking about the extra.
(00:19:34):
Why is that?
(00:19:35):
What is the purpose of the extra work?
(00:19:37):
Yes.
(00:19:37):
What is the extra work for?
(00:19:39):
Yeah.
(00:19:40):
And if it felt good and it was like,
(00:19:41):
oh,
(00:19:42):
I'm going to do a little more work,
(00:19:43):
create a little more income and then I can splurge like that's that's aligned.
(00:19:48):
Yeah.
(00:19:50):
This isn't like that.
(00:19:51):
I kind of wish it was that.
(00:19:53):
That was a little better.
(00:19:54):
Yeah.
(00:19:54):
Yeah.
(00:19:55):
But yeah, it's not really that I'm not sure.
(00:19:58):
I think I think I feel guilty a little bit.
(00:20:00):
I think I feel a little bit guilty that I get to do it.
(00:20:07):
Yeah.
(00:20:09):
It's weird.
(00:20:10):
It doesn't need to be this way because it could be with yourself.
(00:20:12):
But is there a relationship like is that in relationship to someone else or is that
(00:20:17):
with yourself the guilt?
(00:20:19):
I think it is with myself,
(00:20:22):
but it's like,
(00:20:22):
it's because of,
(00:20:25):
I would say,
(00:20:25):
a lot of the core people around me.
(00:20:28):
And so when I'm,
(00:20:29):
depending on where I am,
(00:20:31):
to be totally honest,
(00:20:33):
I think this is one of the things I really appreciated about being in London is I
(00:20:36):
felt really surrounded by people who sort of got it and they worked like me and
(00:20:42):
they shared the same values.
(00:20:43):
Whereas like when I'm in Phoenix, if I'm surrounded by, you know, my mom or a
(00:20:48):
my siblings, it's like everyone else is a pretty traditional work environment.
(00:20:54):
And so they just think I'm playing all the time,
(00:20:57):
which of course I know that I'm not,
(00:20:59):
but it's,
(00:20:59):
I feel bad.
(00:21:00):
I do.
(00:21:00):
I feel bad.
(00:21:01):
I feel like, I don't know.
(00:21:03):
I just, I don't really, I feel like if I don't tell them that I'm going here to do this thing,
(00:21:10):
Even though they're so supportive.
(00:21:12):
To be honest, even with my mother, she's always like, go.
(00:21:15):
If you have a chance to go, go.
(00:21:17):
Super supportive.
(00:21:20):
Then I'll speak to her and she's worked a 60-hour week and she has a week off every year.
(00:21:26):
I'm just like, I kind of feel like an asshole.
(00:21:29):
I'll invite her and I will do all the things that I think will make me feel better,
(00:21:34):
which is strange.
(00:21:36):
But...
(00:21:38):
What's the judgment against you?
(00:21:39):
Like from myself, you mean?
(00:21:41):
Yeah, or from others.
(00:21:42):
What's the judgment that you're just playing?
(00:21:45):
Yeah, that's definitely a big one.
(00:21:47):
Yeah, I think that's a big one.
(00:21:49):
Even when someone jokes, it must be nice.
(00:21:52):
It like stings a bit.
(00:21:55):
And I feel like I was in a different place mentally or emotionally with it.
(00:21:59):
I could take it as the joke.
(00:22:02):
What do you want to say in that?
(00:22:03):
What do you want to say?
(00:22:04):
I want to say I worked my ass off.
(00:22:07):
Yeah.
(00:22:07):
Yeah.
(00:22:07):
Okay.
(00:22:08):
Yeah.
(00:22:08):
Right.
(00:22:09):
Right.
(00:22:09):
That's really what I want to say.
(00:22:10):
I want to say I worked my ass off for, for a long fucking time.
(00:22:14):
Yeah.
(00:22:15):
I was like a kid since I was like 15 without a social life.
(00:22:19):
Like, right.
(00:22:20):
And I loved it.
(00:22:21):
Don't get me wrong.
(00:22:21):
It was, I loved it.
(00:22:23):
It was, when we moved from Chicago to Arizona, it didn't have any of my cousins around me.
(00:22:29):
Didn't have it.
(00:22:29):
You know, I was like,
(00:22:31):
young teenagers and have any like easy friends in the beginning and it was like the
(00:22:35):
thing i did for fun but it's also work and now i want and now i want what i worked
(00:22:43):
my ass off and now i want freedom i don't know yeah what would you tell them i
(00:22:49):
would say and now i want to just go and play and have the freedom to play yeah yeah
(00:22:55):
Yeah, I it's you know, it's tough to say that to an immigrant mother.
(00:23:01):
She's like, I have been through a war.
(00:23:03):
And it's funny because like she truly is like she she would never make me feel bad.
(00:23:06):
I think my my partner kind of what my siblings certainly would not in any real way,
(00:23:11):
but they would definitely make jokes.
(00:23:14):
Right.
(00:23:14):
And so now it's kind of like, I mean, how does it feel sharing?
(00:23:17):
How are you feeling right now?
(00:23:19):
Just like saying, I work my ass off.
(00:23:21):
How does it all feel now?
(00:23:22):
It's quite validating to be like, yeah, go on your phone.
(00:23:26):
Yeah.
(00:23:27):
Yeah.
(00:23:27):
Right.
(00:23:28):
Right.
(00:23:28):
So maybe that's a little of that feeling like in some ways we can play into the
(00:23:33):
story we have about what the dynamic is and how we're coming off.
(00:23:36):
And so I'm hearing you kind of show up in a way that feels better for you.
(00:23:40):
Yeah.
(00:23:41):
It's harder,
(00:23:42):
easier said than done,
(00:23:43):
but it's like holding that space a little bit of like,
(00:23:46):
oh,
(00:23:46):
yeah,
(00:23:46):
like,
(00:23:46):
hold on,
(00:23:47):
I can tap back into I worked my ass off.
(00:23:49):
Wait, actually, I'm good.
(00:23:50):
Yeah.
(00:23:50):
And I want to do I want to have no agenda or plan on this trip.
(00:23:54):
Yeah, I definitely feel much more open to that.
(00:23:56):
Thanks for breaking that for me, David.
(00:23:58):
You're really good at breaking things, which I like about you.
(00:24:02):
Yeah, yeah.
(00:24:04):
So that's kind of the,
(00:24:05):
and I wonder in showing up in that way,
(00:24:08):
how that's then received or if there's as much of that kind of like relational
(00:24:12):
stickiness that,
(00:24:14):
you may have felt in the past um i want to take us to one kind of last place here
(00:24:20):
if you're if you're open to it which is because you've brought it up twice now in
(00:24:24):
your note in our last conversation about your mom and that there's some
(00:24:28):
responsibility there maybe it relates to this trip maybe it doesn't i guess yeah i
(00:24:32):
just want to explore that a little bit are you are you open to that absolutely yeah
(00:24:35):
yeah that like relationship because because
(00:24:39):
Yeah, I wonder where responsibility sits.
(00:24:41):
You were saying something about that,
(00:24:43):
like responsibility to your mom and where that is in this context we're talking
(00:24:47):
about.
(00:24:48):
Yeah, that's a great question.
(00:24:49):
It's funny, I have a couple different ways of looking at it.
(00:24:51):
The bigger way,
(00:24:53):
it's interesting,
(00:24:54):
actually,
(00:24:54):
now that you even bring this up,
(00:24:55):
I'm thinking of,
(00:24:57):
I have responsibility in like two ways,
(00:24:59):
which is so interesting.
(00:25:01):
With my mom, I would say,
(00:25:03):
that I feel this sensibility to create a business that is more sustainable,
(00:25:08):
that I am not necessarily the bottleneck of.
(00:25:12):
The revenue goals and things like that,
(00:25:14):
I feel very responsible to my mother who,
(00:25:17):
God bless her,
(00:25:18):
never really asked for anything,
(00:25:19):
but I definitely feel this sense of responsibility.
(00:25:23):
Whereas it's so funny,
(00:25:24):
like when I think of now,
(00:25:25):
when I travel,
(00:25:26):
I also feel a sense of responsibility too.
(00:25:29):
I have an aunt that I love.
(00:25:31):
I just love her so much.
(00:25:32):
We actually think really similarly, but she's not mobile.
(00:25:35):
She's moved and she loves the world.
(00:25:37):
And so when I go, I take pictures and I post pictures and it's like a very,
(00:25:41):
intentional I am bringing you with me you know beautiful yeah and I love it and I
(00:25:48):
think when it comes to the social side of things like people people really
(00:25:52):
appreciate it which I think is very cool because it's like a different approach to
(00:25:55):
social and I like that because I think of her all the time anytime I'm seeing like
(00:25:59):
something beautiful
(00:26:00):
But yeah,
(00:26:00):
when it comes to my mom,
(00:26:01):
I'm definitely thinking like,
(00:26:02):
oh,
(00:26:03):
I need,
(00:26:03):
you know,
(00:26:04):
I should do this.
(00:26:05):
I should do the revenue goal.
(00:26:07):
I should do, I should hire on and like make this more sustainable.
(00:26:10):
I should, you know, productize this better.
(00:26:14):
Like the, I don't want to say an obligation to her, but that sense of over responsibility.
(00:26:20):
I think what it does is it puts me in a more secure place to help her.
(00:26:27):
That's it.
(00:26:28):
Financially, so you feel there's specific financial support that you want to provide.
(00:26:33):
Is that what we're talking about?
(00:26:36):
It almost feels like a responsibility to level things up for her,
(00:26:42):
even if she doesn't care about it.
(00:26:44):
Even if she has a car that runs fine, I'm like, we should get you a better car.
(00:26:49):
If she's got a house, she's okay.
(00:26:51):
And I'm like, well, I know you really want a big backyard.
(00:26:52):
Yeah.
(00:26:53):
You know,
(00:26:53):
like I get very like,
(00:26:55):
and for some reason I have volunteered as tribute to be the channel for this.
(00:27:01):
Yeah.
(00:27:01):
Yeah.
(00:27:02):
I have a potentially difficult question,
(00:27:06):
which is how,
(00:27:07):
how are you,
(00:27:08):
how have you been participating?
(00:27:10):
Well,
(00:27:10):
real quick,
(00:27:11):
but the ant thing,
(00:27:11):
that's awesome because you build connection with her through the travel and like,
(00:27:17):
that's just so,
(00:27:19):
so great,
(00:27:19):
you know,
(00:27:20):
that whole process.
(00:27:21):
So I really love that.
(00:27:22):
And I think it's a cool part of this travel thing for you and that connection.
(00:27:26):
And so,
(00:27:27):
There's this very aligned connection between you two where you get to go do the
(00:27:30):
thing and then there's the sharing.
(00:27:32):
And so that's amazing.
(00:27:34):
Thank you.
(00:27:34):
It's funny because every time I'm in those cities where I have friends,
(00:27:37):
they always message me and they're like,
(00:27:39):
I love the way you see where I live.
(00:27:42):
And other people too.
(00:27:43):
Yeah, they love it.
(00:27:44):
People know if I'm traveling based on whether or not I'm posting.
(00:27:48):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.
(00:27:49):
So that's great.
(00:27:51):
And that aligns with what we talked about at the beginning.
(00:27:53):
You know,
(00:27:53):
with your mom,
(00:27:54):
and this is a more complex topic,
(00:27:56):
and our relationship with our parents is the most complex of all the areas to work
(00:28:00):
through interpersonally.
(00:28:02):
There's so much there.
(00:28:03):
What I am curious about is,
(00:28:06):
how has that support been shown over time?
(00:28:10):
Meaning, have you been, let me just throw this out there.
(00:28:13):
Have you been, Hey, I got an extra client, got some cash.
(00:28:16):
Here's a gift.
(00:28:19):
Now you're bonded, you know, and like, that was great.
(00:28:21):
And then you go do it again and it's a different thing or like,
(00:28:23):
is that,
(00:28:24):
I know this is a harder question,
(00:28:25):
but has that been happening or is this imagined of something you might do one day?
(00:28:31):
Yeah, that's a great question because to be totally honest, it is mostly imagined now.
(00:28:37):
In the past, it's been being the person who is dependent on when all else fails.
(00:28:46):
Like my mother doesn't really ask for help, so she asks for help because she needs something.
(00:28:50):
But it's kind of this like, you know, you need to buy a ticket to Australia tomorrow.
(00:28:57):
No problem.
(00:28:59):
it's not an issue covering when it's needed yeah exactly exactly that's not a
(00:29:02):
problem we got it yeah there's something you know up with the car needs fixing
(00:29:08):
don't want you to worry about it we can we can do this together like it's like that
(00:29:11):
is the thing is like there's a sense of dependability that i take a i take a bit of
(00:29:17):
pride in i will say and i think i'm pretty good about knowing the difference
(00:29:22):
usually of like when that's really you know needed and not
(00:29:27):
That sounds like a good thing.
(00:29:28):
And it sounds like it's something that you,
(00:29:31):
that there's not as much of like a extra thing in that,
(00:29:35):
that it's,
(00:29:36):
I got you,
(00:29:36):
I'm dependable when you need it.
(00:29:38):
It like works well in the same way that with your aunt,
(00:29:41):
you could build this connection from travel.
(00:29:42):
It's like with your mom, this dependability, the financial support when it's there.
(00:29:47):
Like, so now we're kind of talking about this extra part.
(00:29:51):
So that, that I almost, to me feels very like aligned and I totally,
(00:29:56):
I think that if you're working and building your business to say,
(00:29:58):
I want to continue to be that dependable person.
(00:30:00):
Less pressure.
(00:30:02):
It's less pressure.
(00:30:02):
Yeah.
(00:30:03):
It's less like,
(00:30:03):
yes,
(00:30:04):
you're being less pressured to do something else that maybe is,
(00:30:07):
it's unclear how necessary it is or not.
(00:30:09):
Like, yeah, that's, it's a line.
(00:30:10):
That's the best way I can put it.
(00:30:11):
Yeah.
(00:30:13):
So dependability, like that feels good.
(00:30:14):
Yeah.
(00:30:16):
I definitely have some pride around it.
(00:30:17):
Yeah.
(00:30:18):
Yeah.
(00:30:18):
And I don't think the pride is a bad thing.
(00:30:19):
I think it's a good thing.
(00:30:20):
And so like,
(00:30:22):
Growing that or staying with that,
(00:30:25):
you know,
(00:30:25):
I think can be a good driver,
(00:30:27):
a good motivator,
(00:30:29):
not a pressure motivator.
(00:30:30):
This imagined thing,
(00:30:31):
you know,
(00:30:33):
it's a different thing to tackle because it's thinking something,
(00:30:36):
I must be doing something else other than that.
(00:30:39):
Yeah.
(00:30:40):
You know, and and I think there there's more to unpack there.
(00:30:45):
I want to be conscious of time.
(00:30:47):
What I will say as a starting point for that is and it's funny because where my
(00:30:51):
mind goes is the love languages.
(00:30:53):
I don't know if you know that book.
(00:30:55):
It's such a service.
(00:30:56):
fantastic model of things it really works well in relationships I almost this is
(00:31:02):
kind of funny but I'm almost curious what her love languages are like what what
(00:31:07):
does she want and does that align right because we might want to give gifts for
(00:31:10):
people but that's not how they what they need you know how they want to so and so
(00:31:16):
some dialogue or some testing or some way of seeing hey this other imagined thing
(00:31:21):
that I might do
(00:31:22):
is that actually important?
(00:31:24):
And that could actually just be a conversation too.
(00:31:27):
Like I've been feeling this pressure and I like want to do this and it could come
(00:31:32):
with reassurance.
(00:31:34):
You know, I want to tell you, I'll tell you quickly a personal thing.
(00:31:36):
You know, my, my wife has a very traditional job.
(00:31:38):
I have a very, I've been an entrepreneur for a really long time and I've had that pressure of,
(00:31:44):
you know,
(00:31:44):
shouldn't my work be a little bit more like straightforward or like not going in
(00:31:48):
different directions,
(00:31:49):
right?
(00:31:49):
And so I felt this pressure, probably still sometimes do feel that pressure.
(00:31:53):
And I'm like,
(00:31:55):
And in bringing that up with my wife,
(00:31:56):
it's like,
(00:31:57):
she's like,
(00:31:57):
oh,
(00:31:57):
well,
(00:31:58):
you're just not that person.
(00:31:59):
Like you'll never do.
(00:32:00):
Wow.
(00:32:01):
That type of thing.
(00:32:02):
That you don't have.
(00:32:03):
Yeah.
(00:32:03):
So I'm like, oh, okay, great.
(00:32:04):
Like, I'm happy to hear that validation that you see me that way.
(00:32:07):
Because I was thinking I also had to be this extra person.
(00:32:09):
And it was helpful to hear her say, no, like you're not that person.
(00:32:13):
So like, I don't put anything to do that.
(00:32:15):
So some dialogue, again, I don't know where your relationship is at.
(00:32:20):
And again, things are complex, but speaking to it could help.
(00:32:24):
Yeah, that's a great point.
(00:32:25):
I think if I would,
(00:32:26):
that's when I even just imagine that,
(00:32:28):
and I will talk to her about the section.
(00:32:29):
I think it's a great conversation because I know the moment that I say it,
(00:32:34):
she's going to be like,
(00:32:35):
that's not your job.
(00:32:37):
And then I will start crying because I'm like,
(00:32:40):
you know,
(00:32:41):
because I'm like,
(00:32:41):
I want you to be taken care of.
(00:32:43):
I get this like panic of like,
(00:32:45):
Yeah.
(00:32:45):
And maybe stay with that because there might actually be more dialogue than just that.
(00:32:51):
Right.
(00:32:52):
Because like, it might be something about why isn't it my job?
(00:32:55):
Like there might actually be a little more.
(00:32:57):
Okay.
(00:32:58):
Okay.
(00:32:59):
Yeah, exactly.
(00:33:00):
Like, it's kind of like, you know, someone being like, well, don't worry about that.
(00:33:03):
It's like, well, I'm still worried.
(00:33:04):
Yeah.
(00:33:07):
Yeah,
(00:33:08):
really what there might be is an insight about how your mom views that that is
(00:33:14):
enlightening to why there's less pressure than you think.
(00:33:17):
Yeah, that's so helpful, David.
(00:33:18):
Thank you.
(00:33:19):
Yeah, I really appreciate that.
(00:33:21):
Absolutely.
(00:33:22):
So I'm going to send you a recap.
(00:33:24):
The thing that I would recommend most is carving the time out in advance for something.
(00:33:30):
So yeah,
(00:33:31):
just saying like next year,
(00:33:32):
no matter what,
(00:33:33):
I've got these three things coming up and I'm
(00:33:36):
And I will work around that.
(00:33:38):
And maybe you'll actually work in new ways to create that outcome,
(00:33:42):
not in a pressured way,
(00:33:43):
but just,
(00:33:43):
you know,
(00:33:43):
it's there.
(00:33:44):
So that's what I'd recommend.
(00:33:46):
Yeah, I will totally do that.
(00:33:47):
And I'm very good about using like natural milestones.
(00:33:49):
I have like a lease up end of March.
(00:33:52):
Nice.
(00:33:53):
Perfect.
(00:33:54):
Yeah.
(00:33:55):
Yeah.
(00:33:55):
Yeah.
(00:33:55):
Book the ticket,
(00:33:56):
use the lease,
(00:33:57):
like do the thing,
(00:33:57):
tell your friends,
(00:33:58):
I've been working really hard for this.
(00:34:00):
I'm going to go play for a while.
(00:34:01):
Yeah.
(00:34:02):
You know, and.
(00:34:03):
No, I will do that.
(00:34:04):
That'll be part of my year end, my year end planning for sure.
(00:34:07):
Yeah.
(00:34:07):
Awesome.
(00:34:08):
Thanks, David.
(00:34:08):
This has been really, you're so good at like opening people up.
(00:34:13):
And like, and really just bring insight.
(00:34:15):
Yeah.
(00:34:15):
It's really, it's really powerful.
(00:34:16):
And I'm, I'm really grateful to do this with you.
(00:34:19):
Thank you.
(00:34:20):
Thank you.
(00:34:20):
Thanks for being here.
(00:34:21):
Of course.
(00:34:23):
Sweet.
(00:34:24):
All right.
(00:34:24):
I look forward to the recap.