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In this week's episode we discuss how to manage existential dread—ranging from global issues like climate change and political instability to the pressures of societal expectations around health, lifestyle, and more. We also explore how these worries can overwhelm us at times and share some ways to navigate them in a balanced way.
Creators and Guests
Host
What is The Shrink Down?
Four lifelong friends, all clinical psychologists, unpack the latest in current events, pop culture and celebrity news through the lens of psychology.
Vanessa (00:00.824)
Hello, welcome to The Shrinkdown. Today we're gonna be talking about existential dread. And what do we mean by that? We mean that there's a lot of things going on in this world right now that cause us some stress. And so we'll be talking about all these different things like climate change, political instability, and just kind of even smaller kind of expectations that we read a lot about or see a lot about on social media. And then how do we manage our headspace? So what do we deal, how do we deal with all of these things?
Before we get into today's topic, we are going to do our four-minute faves. Lauren, you want to start us off?
Lauren (00:34.263)
Sure. So my four minute fave is actually, I have brought it over here, a body oil. Okay. So this, and I'm sharing it today because I've been using it for about a month. My mom got me for Christmas. And for all of our audience that listens locally, it's from Wallflower Mercantile, but there is the company itself I can link as well. But I'll link the actual little store in downtown Brighton.
Wilhelmina (00:41.046)
Ooh.
Lauren (01:02.675)
for them as well. It is amazing. So I got it for Christmas. I've been using it every single day as an alternative to body lotion. And I much prefer it now. It takes a little bit of getting used to to figure out how much you want to use so that you don't actually feel oily. And it really doesn't leave you feeling oily. They have got a couple of different smells. This one's like a lavender sense, I should say. That is amazing. But during these winter months, we all live in areas that...
Wilhelmina (01:10.05)
Mmm.
Vanessa (01:10.092)
Hmm.
Teri (01:10.406)
Mmm.
Vanessa (01:13.399)
Okay.
Wilhelmina (01:13.43)
Really?
Vanessa (01:31.148)
Yes, we were just talking about dry hands.
Lauren (01:32.033)
There's no way to keep, my gosh, the dryness of, yes, yes. Right?
Wilhelmina (01:34.562)
Terry, I'm thinking of someone that could use it.
Vanessa (01:38.318)
You should keep some in your office.
Teri (01:41.222)
Very short, very short aside, I tested a little seven-year-old girl this morning at my office whose hand skin was so dry that when I reached out to point out something in a manual, my nail poked her skin and it started bleeding. So we are in the dry season. Yes.
Vanessa (01:54.414)
you
Lauren (01:55.207)
So yes, she could benefit from some of this. Actually, boys have used it when they've gotten some like cracked dry skin this, you know, this this last couple of weeks. It's awesome. I love it so much. So sharing it and we'll do the like the local link as well as the actual company. It's a small business like company link for it as well. But I really am enjoying it as opposed to body lotion. So my gosh, I love it. Yes.
Wilhelmina (01:58.122)
Welcome to the Midwest.
Vanessa (02:18.722)
I just switched to oil too. So yeah, when you said that I was like, yes, I just switched to oil. Not that one, but yes, it's different texture. Awesome.
Wilhelmina (02:20.962)
No.
Lauren (02:23.147)
Yes. So thanks to my mom for introducing that. So yeah, not at all. And you can see how dry your skin is by how quickly it soaks into your skin, at least for me. And I would imagine we're all kind of similar in terms of our climates where we live. It's awesome. I love it. Yeah. Yeah. It's great. Yes. Wilhelmina, what about you?
Wilhelmina (02:26.614)
So it doesn't make you feel oily. it just, wow.
Vanessa (02:30.51)
just like dries in.
Wilhelmina (02:41.504)
I might have to do that. My legs get so dry and itchy and ugh.
Vanessa (02:41.794)
This winter has been very cold. yeah. Awesome.
Wilhelmina (02:49.986)
Yeah, so I am really loving this blog that, so it's Kate Arns, I think that's how you pronounce her last name. She started out as a graphic designer, then she started Witt and Delight, which is a very popular Instagram. She has a beautiful home, and so I know a lot of it was like,
rooms and paints and wallpapers and things like that. It was very, it started in like 2008. It was one of like the first really, really big ones. And then she has sort of, but she is a writer as well. And so she sort of transitioned over the years. And recently her writing, I started like subscribing to her like sub stack, it's called House Calls. And she comes out with like a weekly one and I don't usually read those. I mean,
I so blogging, guess, has been around forever, but this is maybe the first one I've ever actually like paid to follow. And her writing is just hitting me at a point in my life. Like I feel like we're very similar age. I love the fact that she's from Minnesota, which is funny because I started following her and didn't know. And then she started posting pictures of like.
Vanessa (03:51.182)
You
Lauren (04:06.704)
aw
Wilhelmina (04:11.914)
around her house and things like that. like, I know exactly where that is. So I know the neighborhood she lives in and that sounds creepy, like, just there's a familiarity. Yes, exactly. But she just speaks to a lot of things. She's been going through a lot of the same things that I feel like I've been going through in the last couple of years. I feel like it's something that some of the things I could have written myself. And so it's been almost like having
Vanessa (04:20.75)
Yes.
Lauren (04:21.367)
There's a familiarity. Yes.
Wilhelmina (04:41.826)
I mean, a friend sort of give you their own feedback, advice, like thoughts about the world and life and living in it. And I found it very like comforting, inspiring. I just really, really like it. Kate Arn, so it's A-R-E-N-D-S. So her like Instagram page is Witton Delight. And then her...
Lauren (05:00.075)
What's her name again? Okay.
Wilhelmina (05:09.174)
blog is like house calls with Kate Arns. And like last week she wrote about sort of how you maintain your house, creating a house that's like you and pursuing a house that feels like authentic to you and how that balances with actually continually like loss in the sense of like, you have to kind of like throw things away, right? We have to purge and every time you purge, you actually have to recognize like, this is something
Lauren (05:34.775)
and
Wilhelmina (05:39.03)
this is from a stage in life I'm no longer in. And there's like heaviness sometimes to that, right? Like think about when we used to pack up all our kids things, like the old stages and you'd be like, and sometimes people would just save that stuff. Like my mom saved a lot of that. And then sometimes it's like, this is no longer, we aren't here anymore. And sort of the grief of loss. And I thought how it was such an interesting juxtaposition to talk about kind of your house and
Lauren (05:46.679)
yeah.
Wilhelmina (06:08.738)
creating a space for yourself, but that also comes with sort of the joy of now and the loss of what was. And she had a quote that was pursuing a meaningful home life is living with the pain of impermanence and the great joy of having today. So yeah, I loved it. So that's my fave today.
Teri (06:15.172)
you
Lauren (06:15.329)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (06:23.447)
Yeah.
Teri (06:24.314)
I like that.
Vanessa (06:25.515)
Cool.
Lauren (06:28.501)
Okay, very cool.
Vanessa (06:28.888)
Well, thank you for sharing. Terry, what you got today?
Teri (06:32.066)
Okay, mine is another podcast episode that I just listened to this morning on my drive into the office. The podcast is Work Life with Adam Grant. So some of you might be Adam Grant fans. He's an organizational psychologist. He's good. His guest on this most recent episode, I believe it came out maybe a week ago, less than a week ago, was Lisa D'Amour, who we all love.
Lauren (06:47.039)
I like him. Yeah.
Lauren (06:56.183)
Okay. I keep seeing clips about this episode. Yeah. Yes.
Wilhelmina (06:56.662)
Woohoo! Untangled!
Teri (06:59.93)
The reason I like this specific episode, so for those who aren't familiar, Lisa DeMore is a clinical psychologist based out of Ohio who has written three New York Times bestsellers.
Wilhelmina (07:10.922)
One of them was one of my favorites from like last season, Untangled. Yep.
Teri (07:12.582)
Yes. Untangled emotional lives of teenagers and under pressure, understanding the epidemic of anxiety and stress in teenage girls. She's a guru. She has a private practice in Ohio. She also works part time at an all girls private high school. So she is really just embedded and does a lot of talk. She's on the news all the time. She has a monthly New York Times article. I could go on and on. There's so much Lisa.
Lauren (07:12.791)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (07:13.77)
that's all right. Yep.
Lauren (07:32.567)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (07:36.055)
And she contributed to, was it her? Yeah, inside out. Yeah. I thought maybe for a second it was Dr. Becky, but nope, it was her. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (07:39.582)
Inside out
Teri (07:39.95)
Inside Out 2. She was a mate and they touch on that. Yeah, so she was one of the primary psychology consultants for the new Inside Out 2 movie that came out. And there's so much Lisa D'Amour stuff out there. She actually even has her own podcast called Ask Lisa. But this particular episode is brief. I think it's 40 minutes and it really highlights some of her main speaking points.
Vanessa (07:41.262)
Mmm.
Lauren (07:50.23)
Yeah.
Vanessa (07:56.142)
and
Wilhelmina (07:56.716)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (08:04.88)
Mm.
Teri (08:09.882)
that I think parents of tweens and teens will find most reassuring. I actually came away from it thinking, I need to recommend this particular episode to parents because one, it echoes a lot of what we talk about in our clinical work. see a lot of teens. I don't see as many as I used to, but I still certainly have a couple of teens on my therapy caseload currently. And I think she presents the information in a way that parents will feel more hopeful about.
Wilhelmina (08:35.958)
Mm-hmm.
Teri (08:37.432)
some of the specific things related to their teens, peer relationships and friendships. Coming out of COVID, teens got hit really hard psychologically, mentally and emotionally from COVID. She talks about that. She talks about revisiting untangled after, I think it was the 10 year mark and a new edition came out. She said, I had to relook at some things when it comes to vaping, cannabis is now legal, algorithms on social media platforms.
Lauren (08:41.963)
Yeah.
Lauren (08:55.041)
I was going to say 10.
Wilhelmina (08:55.318)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (09:02.165)
Mmm.
Teri (09:05.658)
She said there were things that just didn't exist in the world I first wrote Untangled in. So it sounds like there might even be a new edition, but this is a good episode.
Lauren (09:08.288)
Yeah.
Vanessa (09:08.918)
when that came out again.
Wilhelmina (09:10.658)
Hmm.
Ooh.
Lauren (09:14.677)
good. I'm glad I've been seeing clips, so I'm glad for that recommendation. I'll listen to it.
Wilhelmina (09:19.158)
Yeah, I saw a clip this morning and I actually sent it to one of my patients because she has been talking about her daughter and going through middle school and friend groups changing and feeling like, does she have friends? and yes, and the clip about how really big groups of teens aren't always helpful. so sometimes like the best outcome is if your kid has like one or two close friends and that's like, that's the protective, like that's all they need for that protectiveness of like a friend, friend group.
Teri (09:19.302)
It's good.
Lauren (09:31.999)
I saw that clip.
Vanessa (09:33.078)
and
Lauren (09:47.873)
during those years.
Wilhelmina (09:48.694)
Yes, and I thought, that so many parents, including myself, needed, I needed to hear that. So I thought that was so helpful. That was like a 30 second clip and I was like, this is amazing.
Teri (09:53.734)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (09:58.455)
Taking notes.
Vanessa (09:58.793)
Hahaha
Teri (09:59.384)
It's good. It's a very, it's almost a bullet pointed interview with her between her and Adam Grant. So it's, yeah, it's, it's good. It's a good episode. How about, how about you, Vanessa?
Wilhelmina (10:02.646)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Lauren (10:03.093)
Yeah. And that's how he functions. So that makes sense. That's good to know. Cool. Awesome.
Vanessa (10:09.71)
Awesome. So today I'm gonna be sharing a show that was recommended by Wilhelmina forever ago, forever ago. So this is not a new show. So I was actually looking up, cause I was like, when did the first season drop? And it was 2014. Yes, people. 2014 is when, So yes, so this is Outlander. So the first season dropped in 2014.
Lauren (10:17.047)
To all of us.
Wilhelmina (10:18.914)
Mm-hmm
Teri (10:20.524)
many years ago.
Wilhelmina (10:28.332)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Lauren (10:29.739)
I was going to say it was like Charleston on our trip. It was years ago that you suggested this.
Vanessa (10:39.502)
The seventh season just dropped like the second part in November. So it was like almost like perfect timing for me to decide to finally after this being recommended forever ago. I also had a friend who had recommended the book series. So this is based on a book by Diana and I'm gonna butcher her last name. I think it's Gable Dunn is how you say it.
Wilhelmina (10:44.162)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (10:49.867)
You
Wilhelmina (11:00.13)
Gabbalding or Gabbal, yeah. I had it when I was reading the books, I had it because I actually like listened to the audio, but now it's gone from my head.
Vanessa (11:10.562)
I tried to look it up, something like that. So it's based off a book series. It is currently, so it's a stars show, but I am watching on Netflix. So Netflix has the first six seasons. So I'm hoping by the time I get to the end of the sixth season, they will also have the seventh season. But if not, stars has it. And then the very last season is coming out next year. So it's already been filmed. So no one has to worry, because I know sometimes some of these shows are like,
They haven't even filmed it yet. We have no idea when it's going to drop. So they've already filmed season eight, which is the last season. And so they just need to edit it. Not sure why that's going to take a year. But yeah, so it's coming out next year. And the I'm not going to give too much away. But basically, it is about this World War Two nurse. So that's how this show starts off in the very first episode. You see her in the field and all of a sudden the soldiers are cheering and they're saying the war has ended.
She's married. Her husband was also in the military at the time. They've been apart now for about five years. And so they really haven't seen each other very often. I think they even say in the movie like 10 days total within these last five years. So they're now together. The war has ended and they want to kind of rekindle their relationship. So they go on a honeymoon and on this honeymoon, she travels 200 years back in time, basically 200 years and finds herself in Scotland in the 1700s.
Wilhelmina (12:29.593)
Back in time!
Vanessa (12:35.916)
So that's like the fantasy aspect to it. would not, it's more of a historical drama. Is that what they say? Yes. Yes, yeah. At least. So besides the time traveling, the rest of it is very, there's no other kind of fantasy option. Well, because like, I mean, if you think about like hype, it's not.
Wilhelmina (12:40.212)
It is, because once you get past that point, it's just, she's there. It's, at least,
Lauren (12:52.727)
Other than
Teri (12:54.32)
Yeah, that's a big one for me.
Vanessa (12:59.63)
It's not considered high fantasy. It's not like Lord of the Rings. There's no dragons. There's no... Right. So it's all real and it's all based in history. So it's all very... So if you're a history buff, you'd probably really like it. So besides the time travel, it's really not fantasy. But I like fantasy, so I really enjoyed it. But it's great acting, great storytelling, the relationships just... I mean, Jamie Fraser. It's so good.
Wilhelmina (13:01.642)
Mm-mm, it's not, because it's all real within it, yeah.
Lauren (13:02.455)
No, no, no, no, no. That makes sense.
Teri (13:02.736)
Right.
Wilhelmina (13:19.554)
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (13:24.482)
So good. So good. I know. I know. It's just amazing.
Vanessa (13:29.078)
It's really good. So it is definitely a mature audience. some, there's, there's obviously there's war stuff. So there's a lot of gore killing, there's fighting. There's also a lot of sexual content. Some of it's like, like sexual violence. So like there, it's definitely mature audience. So, but it is a really great show. I'm, I don't know why it took me so long to, to watch it.
Wilhelmina (13:32.554)
you
Wilhelmina (13:49.502)
It is, yeah, it is so good. Anyone who knows me, I mean, years ago I was talking about it. People were giving me like different scarves from Scotland if they went. I had a friend who gave me like a Jamie Fraser candle. Like I was all in. Yeah, I was. I was just, it's very good though. And the show, the author actually, she consults on the show and so they would like film a scene.
Lauren (14:03.031)
The worship ones.
Wilhelmina (14:16.424)
And she would be like, no, you can't do that because that's not historically accurate. she, know, different scenes, she'd be like, you can't even have that because that wouldn't have even been around. So in terms of accuracy, they really tried to, and even the costume designer was like, tried to stay like her wedding dress, like tried to stay within, like create things that were available then and not like, it's a good show.
Vanessa (14:40.962)
Yeah, I mean, it's kind of like, like if you think if any of you guys like Game of Thrones where like, there's no, I mean, that, that, right? The white, like, right, that is even right. So if you took away like the whole white Walker thing, it's like, okay, it was like time period, right? Like there's fighting, there's like, so then you would remember every once in a while, like, yeah, there's this like weird fantasy sci-fi thing happening, but like, for the most part, it wasn't, it's kind of like that. Like once she's there, you kind of forget that part. So anyway, it's a good show for anybody who's looking for a new show and
Wilhelmina (14:45.814)
Mm-hmm. That is more fantasy even than this, yeah.
Lauren (14:54.379)
Yeah.
Lauren (15:00.331)
Yeah.
Vanessa (15:11.0)
There's a lot of seasons out, so you can watch it. All right, let's get into today's topic then. So I thought it'd be, maybe we should start off by just going around, just maybe each of us naming like one thing off the top of our heads that we're like, yep, this is part of the dread that we're all feeling, or a lot of us are feeling, not everybody, I guess, but a lot of the kind of things that are going on in the world right now that are impacting us. So let's go around.
Lauren (15:15.287)
Awesome.
Vanessa (15:40.856)
Well, let me know you want to start. Just throw it out there. You don't have to explain anything. Just.
Wilhelmina (15:43.062)
Yep. I think the climate change and the state of that and the changing temperatures as someone from Minnesota and like just the Midwest in general to see our winters in such a short period of time completely change, it terrifies me to like my core. And so everything that comes with that.
I can't even watch like animal documentaries and things like that because it just every single one is like, well, the bees or the polar bears or this like I just it like feels overwhelming to my soul. And I feel definitely like hopeless when I start to think about it. So that one's top on the list. Terry, what about you?
Teri (16:27.81)
So interestingly, that was the first thing that came to my mind was what you said about how dramatically the winters have changed. And I think about how my kids spend time outside in the snow compared to even four years ago, five years ago to now. I would add to that, among all things, just the political climate and instability that we're in and what we're likely entering.
Vanessa (16:32.216)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (16:52.202)
Mm hmm. Yep.
Teri (16:57.194)
I fear this for a lot of professions, but I don't know how divisive politics are right now, how anyone who is reasonably intelligent would go into politics going forward in the future. Who is being attracted to politics? Who is being attracted to law? I feel the same way about law enforcement is thinking about what these police officers teaching education.
Wilhelmina (17:05.452)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (17:14.218)
You
Wilhelmina (17:14.242)
Right, right.
Vanessa (17:15.214)
All right, nice.
Vanessa (17:22.562)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (17:24.289)
Teaching.
Wilhelmina (17:25.892)
yeah.
Teri (17:27.542)
I think about what these professionals have to go through on a daily basis, both on a microscopic level on their day-to-day jobs, as well as more globally. And I think just the people who are in some of the most important professions, law enforcement, firefighters, et cetera, who's going to go into these politics? Because it's very, very challenging to think about who's going to
Wilhelmina (17:42.016)
Yes.
Wilhelmina (17:54.444)
Mm-hmm.
Teri (17:56.698)
be leading things for us.
Vanessa (17:58.542)
Yeah, I think for me, one of the like the kind of general topic is all the health related things that we're supposed to be juggling. Like that really, I feel overwhelmed at times by that. So it's like, get, get this much sleep. Don't eat that. Do eat this, this much exercise. And it's just like this constant like, my God, can't do that. I can't do that. Right. You know, there was this funny meme I sent you guys the other day. Like the lady was like, we all have to paint our chicken with cottage cheese, right? Because we have to get enough.
Teri (18:17.442)
Eat this amount of protein per day.
Lauren (18:27.179)
Get it enough protein.
Teri (18:27.738)
Duff.
Vanessa (18:28.494)
You know, and it's overwhelming. You're like, my gosh, am I doing the right thing? Am I, you know, am I exercising enough? Am I eating the right thing? I can't eat that. I can't do that. And so it becomes overwhelming because it's not just you, right? It's your family too, right? Am I feeding my child the right thing? You know, now there's all, you know, we're all excited about this like red dye band, but there's all these other things, right? And so, you know, you want to make sure your kid's eating the right thing, but you also don't want to be too strict with your kid, right? Like there's all these things. So it's not just how some of these things impact us, you know.
ourselves, but it's also how does this impact our families and our kids?
Wilhelmina (19:02.198)
Yeah, yeah.
Lauren (19:03.265)
Yeah. You know, I was thinking about that as well. And I make a point, I try really, really hard to practice what I preach in this particular area. So for me, this is not something that I engage, I don't want to sound annoying. This is going to sound so annoying. I don't engage in existential worry and dread. I don't because...
Wilhelmina (19:19.874)
you
Lauren (19:24.511)
I make an active point to really try to be incredibly mindful of when I start to go that route, but to piggyback off of what Vanessa was saying, certainly the health and then just aging, aging parents, having aging parents, I don't want to think about it, right? And I think those kind of go hand in hand, but it is something that, and I think for me, and we'll get into kind of techniques and things, but there was so much existential dread during COVID.
Wilhelmina (19:35.234)
Yeah, yes.
Vanessa (19:35.468)
Yeah.
Teri (19:36.166)
Hmm.
Wilhelmina (19:52.375)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (19:52.391)
that my husband and I made a really conscious decision not to engage in that and to be really sort of focused on the things that we could control. And I know, again, we're going to get into that piece of it. But I see that as there certainly we have clients, we have patients, we have friends, you know, some of us ourselves. It's easy to lose sight.
of that and engage in some of these things. And it can be really overwhelming to Vanessa's point, especially with everything that's available for you to be able to engage in existential dread. It's called doom scrolling, right? It's just like going from, and then of course your, algorithm catches you right in that doom scroll if you spend too long on a specific topic. So it's easy to get engaged with that on social media or even just from watching too much
Vanessa (20:25.452)
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (20:26.378)
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (20:31.18)
Yep.
Algorithm? yeah.
Teri (20:34.394)
Your algorithm.
Lauren (20:45.109)
news, local and national. And so I can see the vulnerabilities there with all of these topics. Yeah, it's overwhelming.
Vanessa (20:45.356)
news.
Wilhelmina (20:45.962)
Mm Yeah, yeah.
Wilhelmina (20:53.42)
Yeah, it definitely is. Well, and I think sometimes now once you start attaching to it and it starts to permeate all of your thoughts. I I was picking up something at a store the other day and I was parking and this guy walked out of the store and he clearly had something small and it was just in a plastic bag. He was just swinging around. And I was like, why did he get a bag? Clearly whatever is in there, he could have literally just
walked out with. He didn't need to put it in a plastic bag. And I just was like, ah, and I was like, why am I even thinking this? like, so he's literally like swinging this thing. And I was like, excuse me, sir, could you please put that back? and I will be meanwhile, I am walking out of, you know, sometimes if I go into the grocery store, I'm like, I'm just gonna grab one thing. And then I end up grabbing more inevitably, right. But I was like, nope.
Teri (21:31.622)
It's a good example though of...
Vanessa (21:33.004)
Yeah.
you
Wilhelmina (21:49.28)
I walked in here without a bag. I'm like, I got it. No, I'm fine. I don't need a bag. know, I'm like the person that's like trying to minimize everything. And then I see that and I'm like, hmm. Yeah, yeah.
Lauren (22:00.833)
But that's a really good example of control, what you can control, right?
Vanessa (22:03.052)
Right, what you can do. You can use reusable bags, know, make sure your kids do. Right.
Lauren (22:07.925)
You can't control what other people choose to write. It's going to drive you nuts.
Wilhelmina (22:13.514)
It is. It does. It does. I mean, that's...
Teri (22:15.398)
And when I find myself both trying to practice for myself as well as discuss with my patients, and in particular, it's my college age and young adult, or even I actually have a couple older, not older adults, I have a couple women in their 30s and 40s who I've seen, but yes, so my age. And I will say on the younger end, there's more existential dread than there is
Wilhelmina (22:27.414)
Yes.
Wilhelmina (22:34.018)
So your age is what you're saying.
Vanessa (22:42.918)
yes.
Wilhelmina (22:43.272)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, absolutely.
Teri (22:44.75)
for the women in our age bracket. That being said, it's a lot of what I was suggesting during COVID where you do this delicate balance of zooming out and zooming back in. So when you find yourself zoomed out for too long, I'm gonna zoom back in and pull the weeds out in my backyard. I'm gonna focus on what's in my little bubble, focus on the circle. The circle's gonna widen.
Vanessa (22:47.822)
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (22:57.526)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Lauren (23:06.625)
Yep, yep, yep. Yeah, focus on this circle. Yep.
Teri (23:13.7)
And then I'm going to maybe spend some space there to honor that. So you're not living in a fantasy necessarily, but then you're, okay, I've spent enough time here. I've had enough news for today. I've had enough doom scrolling, et cetera, or texting or conversing with friends and family about it. I'm going to zoom back in. The zooming out, I think will happen more naturally for some people more than others. And when you find yourself doing that, then you zoom back in and it all boils down to that.
Lauren (23:21.131)
Right.
Lauren (23:27.084)
Right.
Vanessa (23:36.216)
Yeah.
Lauren (23:36.587)
Yeah.
Teri (23:41.806)
Is this under the category of things within my total control, some of my control or none of my control? And if you can divvy up the particular issues, and this sounds very simplified, but if you can, tell the young adults I work with this, if you can put them in one of those three baskets and then harness that energy and ask yourself, I have partial control over this particular issue, how am I going to exert that control? What's that going to look like behaviorally? Am I living?
Lauren (23:48.097)
Right.
Lauren (23:54.038)
Yeah.
Teri (24:08.782)
a values-based life based on my behaviors? Do I need to be shifting based on what I value? And the other thing I often think about, especially for myself, I will ask myself, is this an experience I want to continue having?
Wilhelmina (24:10.562)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (24:21.92)
Hmm. Yep.
Lauren (24:22.143)
Right. Right.
Teri (24:23.68)
And I'm going to focus my energy on the experiences that I would like to continue having.
Lauren (24:29.717)
And you can't do that without being able to identify your values. So I think what you just said is a really important point is understanding what you actually find important and what you actually want in life. Because it's really easy to engage in catastrophic thinking about all the different events of the world, right? And really taking a beat to say, one, do I just want to vent about this? Because if you want to vent, go for it, right? There's always going to be somebody that you can just vent with and recognize.
Wilhelmina (24:33.548)
Yes.
Vanessa (24:38.924)
Yes, that's how you manage all that. Yeah. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (24:46.476)
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (24:52.802)
Mm-hmm.
Teri (24:57.104)
I do that. Yeah.
Lauren (24:59.115)
Like, I just want to complain about this thing. Or do you actually, right, right, or do you actually find this something that is important for you to problem solve? Is this something that you value in your life and you want to take small steps? And then what Terry said, zooming in. So going into that inner circle, what's that number one circle around me and what are the steps that I would take? And usually it's taking care of yourself and your own. And that was when I had referenced COVID and my husband, we would always go back to, okay,
Teri (25:01.614)
Offload. Get rid of the garbage.
Wilhelmina (25:02.774)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Lauren (25:27.435)
What can we do today to keep ourselves and our kids happy, healthy, sane during this period of time, during those shut down weeks? Get outside, take a walk, get some fresh air. It was like, this was within our control. And you started to zoom out and there was less and less within your control and that gets really scary and overwhelming. So the question is, why would I do that to myself? So using a technique that we all use for folks in therapy called cognitive diffusion.
Teri (25:41.168)
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (25:41.774)
you
Lauren (25:56.395)
being able to recognize that those are just thoughts that I'm having, and I can separate myself from those thoughts if I'd like to. Or I can totally engage and doom scroll, invent, and do all of those things, but then I need to recognize that that's what I'm doing. I'm engaging with my thoughts right now rather than cognitive diffusion, the idea of separating myself from my thoughts. Yes, yes, right, right.
Wilhelmina (25:59.404)
Yeah.
Vanessa (25:59.79)
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (26:03.17)
I...
Wilhelmina (26:15.97)
I am not my thoughts. I'm not my feelings. Yeah. Well, and I think that I know like the day after the election, I had several of my patients, almost all of them actually came to me with different thoughts and feelings and whatnot. And many of them did feel like it impacted them directly. A lot of them had fear for their kids and their daughters or their sons. And so,
Vanessa (26:16.536)
Yeah. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (26:43.85)
It was hard to say like, well, this doesn't concern you or, you know, not, but like, because they did feel like it affected them. So then we really like talked about mindfulness and like right now I said, right now you guys are okay. Right now you are, you know, your daughter is safe and healthy. And so it was sort of like, even though it felt very personal and very much part of like their inner family, it was not something that was.
Vanessa (26:54.562)
Mm-hmm. All right.
Lauren (26:55.703)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Teri (26:55.718)
I
Lauren (27:00.801)
safe and healthy.
Wilhelmina (27:11.764)
currently an issue. And so it was that sort of like, let's step back and look at the right now and what is actually happening right now for you and your family. then you can sparkle and sprinkle and gratitude. Why not? Gratitudes and things like that of like, really, let's focus right now on what you're thankful for, grateful for, and that you have within you and your family.
Lauren (27:27.959)
They're cool. Sure.
Teri (27:29.061)
Yeah.
Vanessa (27:40.302)
I was thinking of what Lauren, you said about you have to prioritize what's important to you. And I think that that's especially true when thinking about like all these things, but especially like all those health things that I was talking about. And I think you just have to decide what is important to you and focus on those things and then be okay with the idea that other people are going to have the things that they're focused on. And that's okay. you know,
Lauren (27:56.876)
Right.
Wilhelmina (28:01.516)
Yes.
Teri (28:03.974)
Yes.
Vanessa (28:06.594)
For me, I'm fine having my friends say whatever they're worried about. I welcome that, but I don't necessarily feel pressured that I have to do those things. And I think that takes effort to do that because you can be consumed by other people's worries. you're like, maybe I should be worrying about that, right? Because they're worrying about that. And so I do think that that takes some effort on your own part to not.
Lauren (28:14.455)
You don't identify. Yeah. Yep.
Wilhelmina (28:16.716)
Yes.
Wilhelmina (28:23.009)
Yes.
Lauren (28:23.297)
Totally.
Vanessa (28:33.474)
feel that you have to take on other people's worries and concerns and be able to kind of manage that in a different space, right? So like, yeah, we're talking about it now and then I can just kind of set that aside because that's not my worry. Like I have these other set of things that I'm gonna focus on and put my effort into and kind of addressing and thinking of those things. Cause otherwise you will lose your mind.
Lauren (28:37.42)
Right?
Lauren (28:45.931)
right?
Lauren (28:58.174)
I was just, oh yeah.
Wilhelmina (28:58.668)
Well, and what that means is though, actually have to have a very, you have to have an understanding of yourself and your values going back to that because otherwise you will be like, well, is this what I should be worried about? this is what I should be worried about. this is what I should be worried about. And so it does take sort of a, take a beat and what actually resonates with me and not, and so many people have trouble with that. And so then therefore,
Teri (28:59.173)
Yeah.
Lauren (29:07.723)
Right. Right.
Vanessa (29:08.695)
Absolutely.
Vanessa (29:23.33)
Thank
Wilhelmina (29:28.328)
all of it feels the same level of importance when maybe in reality it's not.
Lauren (29:32.245)
Right. Right. I was listening to Not Skinny But Not Fats podcast and she had a guest on and they got into like, they just kind of like stumbled into a conversation about oat milk. And the guest was like, do not come for me. Something will kill me. I'm having oat milk in my coffee. This is my choice. I can't engage. This guest was excellent. It was an actress. And she was like,
Vanessa (29:37.977)
yeah. I like her too.
Teri (29:38.79)
I like her.
Wilhelmina (29:46.309)
Hahaha!
Lauren (30:00.031)
I cannot engage in this conversation right now. There's going to be something that's bad for me. This is my thing. I will not get rid of oat milk. I know it's full of fat and sugar. And when you go to Starbucks, they give you artificial whatever. mean, I don't know anything about oat milk, but it was very fun. I don't know, but the point was she did such a great job of like in a very funny way, but just saying, yeah.
Wilhelmina (30:14.21)
I was gonna say, I'm like, what's wrong with oatmeal now, my god!
Vanessa (30:14.627)
my gosh.
Wilhelmina (30:20.514)
Thanks
Lauren (30:26.027)
something is gonna poison me or kill me, but this is my thing and I will focus on something else that I choose that's important to me to modify or change because it's not healthy, et cetera, et cetera. But it was very funny in the way she did it, but it's so true, right? She was like, do not come for me on this one. I'm not changing it. This is my thing. I know how terrible it is for you. But yes, to your point, well, Amina, I have no idea. I was like.
Vanessa (30:30.722)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (30:31.265)
Yes.
Vanessa (30:47.522)
Yeah, and that's a good point because I think a lot of the things we're talking about are truly, they're true, right? A lot of the things, they're real. To some degree, these things are unhealthy or not good for you. There is issues with the, right? All these things are true. It's that you can't worry about everything, right? Even if there's Exactly, two things can be real at the same time, right? So.
Wilhelmina (30:48.29)
I was like
Lauren (30:56.331)
They're real, yeah.
Wilhelmina (30:56.812)
to a degree, yes, yes.
Lauren (31:07.905)
Yeah, it can be true and you don't have to take it on. Right, right. It's one of my favorites. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (31:08.652)
Yes.
Yes. Yes.
Vanessa (31:14.678)
Yeah, absolutely. you can absolutely something can be unhealthy and you just say, okay, well, I'm still gonna I'm still gonna drink my oat milk, right? Or, know, my bra guys, I just sent you that thing about the wristband for the Apple Watch. Apparently it's toxic.
Lauren (31:22.359)
Yes.
Lauren (31:27.163)
yeah.
like, well, our conversation a couple of weeks ago about, listen, our conversation about alcohol, it's like, okay, but I'm still gonna have my glass of wine. But guess what? I'm not doing 100 other things that are unhealthy for me. So I'm gonna have that. Because you do, you have to figure out at some point, what works for you.
Vanessa (31:32.44)
I still have my watch on! I was like, well...
Teri (31:34.875)
Yes.
Vanessa (31:38.924)
Right. Right.
Lauren (31:52.915)
I know people that have gotten so into the perimenopause conversation and started so many different supplements and it's actually made it worse for them because they don't really actually know what their body needs and what they actually like how they're just throwing things at the wall and it's like it is.
Teri (32:06.886)
They're just throwing things out there and seeing what sticks.
Vanessa (32:08.334)
Got it, yeah. That's another big one though that, true, right. We all, I think, can agree in this group that we don't have a lot of research on perimenopause. There's a lot of work to do in this field. There's a lot of things that we're learning that have gone kind of untalked about and untreated. So I think we can all agree that. But I think for me personally, you guys can chime in, it is so overwhelming that at times I just want to crawl under a blanket and be like, ah!
Wilhelmina (32:08.566)
Yes.
Wilhelmina (32:18.327)
Right.
Lauren (32:23.713)
Right.
Wilhelmina (32:33.666)
100%.
Teri (32:33.862)
I'm gonna finish.
Vanessa (32:37.614)
So I could see why somebody would say like, don't know, right? can't even think about this because it's just too much.
Lauren (32:42.539)
Right?
Teri (32:45.934)
And when you look at the symptom list, it's exhaustive, it's everything. And I'll say, I had a frozen shoulder for almost two years before that was even mentioned and I happened to hear about it. And you say, I do too. It's year three, I'm going on year three. Can't. And it's, but it's just so, I agree with you because it's so overwhelming and.
Wilhelmina (32:48.706)
it's literally everything.
Vanessa (32:48.822)
It's everything.
Vanessa (32:58.988)
I still have it.
Yes.
Teri (33:13.368)
maybe this is what's happening, let's self-diagnose this. And then maybe if you self-diagnose this, then you do this concoction of treatments and figure this out. And it's this combo of amount of sleep and protein and supplements. if you, I think there is this wellness myth that's been around for a long time. The wellness industry in the 1980s really did a number on people where this myth that you can achieve a perpetual state of wellbeing
Wilhelmina (33:28.258)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (33:29.39)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (33:29.911)
Hmm?
Wilhelmina (33:39.5)
Yes.
Teri (33:39.574)
if you do this particular hybrid concoction of activities. And currently right now, I think we have exercise, meditation, protein, supplements, sleep, alcohol, dyes, nonstick pans, not using nonstick pans, on and on where I do think we're still being fed a line of bullshit when it comes to that, that if you do a particular hybrid, you won't be in paramedicine.
Vanessa (33:41.677)
Yes.
Vanessa (33:50.574)
supplements, yeah.
Wilhelmina (34:03.426)
You
Lauren (34:04.279)
Great.
Because guess what? Nobody factors in genetics. Nobody factors in how you yourself function. And you're right. I was going to say, and it speaks to what you're saying, not only just about health, but all of these things, all of these existential topics have been around forever. So our grandparents, was World War II.
Vanessa (34:07.15)
All right.
Teri (34:09.562)
Yes.
Wilhelmina (34:09.718)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Lauren (34:30.999)
Right? Our parents, was a JFK getting shot when they were in elementary school and like what that meant and how scary that was. Right? Right? Right. Right. And so these, the topics, like the actual topics might change a little bit, but existential dread is something that's always been around and it's part of the way that we're programmed. Right? And so we have to ask,
Teri (34:38.478)
And not even just him, Martin Luther King Jr. and Robert Kennedy and the Civil Rights Movement. It was a very scary time to be around, to be alive.
Wilhelmina (34:40.8)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (34:44.494)
Thanks.
Teri (34:59.035)
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (34:59.256)
But I think part of it is how we can consume it, how it's consumed, right? So back then, don't, besides a newspaper, your neighbors, right? Like, I feel like that is part of why people now, yes, because you can just go on your phone, right? Like it's at your fingertips constantly. You know, if your phone is linked to your watch, my watch, it's, you know, it's my toxic watch that's going to kill me.
Wilhelmina (35:04.257)
Yes.
Lauren (35:04.424)
right
Lauren (35:13.047)
It's easier consumption. Yeah. Right.
Lauren (35:21.376)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (35:22.784)
Your toxic watch.
Lauren (35:24.319)
Yeah, that's going to kill me.
Vanessa (35:26.498)
I'm gonna die from my watch, you know, like it's, you know, I'm getting the news blinging on my, right? So it's like, you're inundated with it. So I think that you're right. A lot of these topics have been around. I just wonder if the difference now is how easily accessible it is and how, the frequency of the information that it's like overload.
Lauren (35:37.441)
Yeah.
Lauren (35:42.059)
Mm-hmm.
Teri (35:46.438)
I think it's such an interesting point that you make, Lauren, and that you're saying, Vanessa, my father-in-law, who passed away a couple years ago, maybe six years ago now, when Donald Trump was elected the first time, and it wasn't even just his election, there was lots of other stuff going on in the news at that time. And he was a retired police officer and then a detective. So he had a very interesting career and saw a lot of things. He was also a veteran.
Lauren (35:47.575)
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (36:13.87)
Mm-hmm.
Teri (36:15.628)
And I remember saying to him, gosh, things feel really heavy right now and really big. And he looked at me and said, the sixties were pretty rough. He goes, it was pretty bad then. Exactly the same time point you're referencing. He said, we had all of our leaders being assassinated sometimes on TV. He said, it was really, really heavy. The civil rights movement, et cetera. He said, the difference was we just, we watched the nightly news.
Lauren (36:26.261)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (36:27.03)
Mmm.
Lauren (36:34.711)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (36:36.097)
No.
Wilhelmina (36:44.874)
And then that was it. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Teri (36:44.93)
once a night, and that was the only exposure. So I said, have things ever been this bad? And he pretty quick came back at me and said, the 60s were pretty bad. Having lived through both.
Lauren (36:52.907)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and I think every generation has their their the big topics that they worry about. And it's but to Vanessa's point, it's the accessibility now. And so it adds that extra layer of we have to you really have to know yourself well to know what can you handle? What do you need to not avoid not stick your head in the sand about but rather just OK, that's enough for me today.
Vanessa (36:54.958)
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (37:10.902)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Lauren (37:20.407)
and then going zooming back in and saying, okay, here's what I can control, here's what I can do. And typically that's taking care of yourself and those around you, right? And making sure that those things are functioning because if we all do that, we're all better off in all different aspects of life.
Teri (37:38.862)
and not spending too much time at there and then, as we say in the therapy world, spending more time here and now and not so much there and then.
Lauren (37:41.823)
Right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Hearing now. Mm-hmm. Yep.
Vanessa (37:42.798)
Okay.
Right. Yeah. Well, I think, too, you we've talked a little bit about the things that we can do to kind of help. We've talked about, like, you know, mindfulness and, you know, focusing on what you can control. And I think the important thing for people to know is that everybody worries, has moments where they worry and or they feel nervous or they feel anxious, however you want to whatever word you want to use to describe that. That's normal. But when these feelings start to overtake your life and it start to impact your functioning and you can't
Wilhelmina (37:45.922)
there and then.
Vanessa (38:12.888)
quite control it yourself by trying to do some of these things, then that's a time where you might say, I think I need to go get some therapy or some counseling and know that that's okay. That's okay. You don't have to feel like you have to figure it all out on your own, right? Because I think that can just cause us more anxiety. So I think it's important for folks to know that there are lots of things that you can do yourself to manage this. But if you're getting to the point where you feel like I'm not able to manage this, I'm not sleeping well, or it's starting to impact your functioning,
Wilhelmina (38:20.61)
Mm-hmm.
Teri (38:22.618)
Yeah.
Vanessa (38:42.328)
then that could be the sign for you to say, I need to go get help from someone who can help me practice mindfulness, learn more how to do that. We talk about deep breathing and meditation and all these things. And sometimes it's hard to do those things by yourself. And so working with someone who can kind of help guide you through these things can be really beneficial.
Wilhelmina (39:04.13)
And I think that being able to do something that feels actionable for you in your life when you're feeling overwhelmed about a topic can be helpful. there was a Psychology Today article about actually for therapists helping their clients deal with client change worry. And it was saying, you know, it had a
list of sort of like, here are some things you can do. you know, one of them was like, maybe get involved. If it feels good to you to like do something and find something that is a group that you feels like you're taking some action. Like then it was get outside. You're worried about the world and nature and all of it. Then get outside and actually like be with nature because that can actually help you during like the dread about climate change. And then it
did talk about then being grateful for what you are and making a list every day of here are some things I'm grateful for today. Not necessarily about what you're worried about, but just the balance. It's the balance. It's the zooming out and in in one circular, continuous movement. And Terry, I was thinking about you sent us a text last week, and you were like, OK, I've been living la la la la la la with the nonstick pan, whatever. And uh-huh.
Teri (40:26.422)
Mm-hmm. Yep. I purposely kept my head buried because I'm a big Andrew Huberman podcast fan and that episode I have purposefully skipped over many times.
Lauren (40:27.831)
he'll drive you nuts with this kind of stuff. Every one of his episodes is existential dread. God!
Wilhelmina (40:32.47)
Yes, yes.
Vanessa (40:35.458)
Hahaha!
Wilhelmina (40:36.022)
Yes. Yes. Well, I've been... I know. You're never doing enough to be at your peak.
Teri (40:42.202)
Yes, it is.
You're never good enough. You're not an optimizer. He calls them optimizers. Yeah.
Lauren (40:48.087)
Wilhelmina (40:49.942)
Yes. But I've been, I've been staring at my nonstick pans for years now and like seeing them scratched and like just being like, we're just dying a little bit each time we make something. And yet sort of feeling frozen of like, just, I'm hungry so. Which will help, exactly.
Vanessa (40:51.96)
What's the opposite of optimizer?
Lauren (40:53.822)
carefr-
Vanessa (41:03.275)
You
Vanessa (41:07.502)
You
Teri (41:07.706)
They're like, I'm hungry.
Lauren (41:08.503)
Well...
Teri (41:11.994)
and make some bacon.
Lauren (41:14.987)
which will also kill me, so, you know.
Teri (41:16.26)
Yes.
Wilhelmina (41:17.74)
I'm gonna pour a glass of wine, make some bacon in my nonstick pan that's peeling away with my plastic spatula. I'm feeling good about myself right now. But actually it was helpful because when Terry sent that to me, I was like, I actually took all my nonstick pans out and I made a list of the pans that we had. And then I set aside like three of the ones that were just really bad.
Vanessa (41:21.462)
My black spatula.
Teri (41:23.13)
Yeah.
Lauren (41:25.847)
You
Wilhelmina (41:47.316)
And then I went online and I just found a couple. I haven't ordered them yet, but they're in my cart. And I'm like, okay, I'm just going to do a little bit at a time so that I, yes, because I'm like, I'm doing nothing and I've been worried about it. I can't spend $3,000 and just get all new kitchen set, you know? believe me, I'd want to, but Owen would, you know, if he was mad about my $15 Whirly Pop, you can imagine he would not be thrilled.
Teri (41:56.551)
I spot two. Yep.
Lauren (41:56.695)
One small step, yeah. Right, right, right.
Vanessa (41:57.806)
Yeah.
Vanessa (42:06.498)
Like my husband? I'll tell you guys that story.
Lauren (42:07.809)
for watching.
Lauren (42:14.487)
Nyeh heh
Vanessa (42:16.43)
Wilhelmina (42:16.77)
What is this giant package from Greenpan? Nothing. Nothing. Don't worry about it. Nothing. Right. Yes. This is for us. This is for all of us and we can live forever.
Lauren (42:21.917)
No, no,
Teri (42:23.366)
Saving your life, like shut up.
Vanessa (42:27.566)
I mean, so I have to tell you this. So Mark got into the, so you all, so my husband is the one in our family who worries most about the nutrition stuff. for me, like, I almost feel like I don't have to because he does. So it's like, whatever, what, you know. And so he got on the non-stick, he's been saying it for a long time. And then finally he's like, I'm doing this. I'm gonna go do it. So he did some preliminary research and bought, spent.
Wilhelmina (42:40.502)
You don't have to, he's doing it.
Lauren (42:41.439)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Teri (42:41.926)
with them.
Vanessa (42:54.606)
like over $1,000 getting this whole new set for us. I don't want to say because, so after he bought them, before like they were still in, they came in a bunch of boxes. So they're arriving. We hadn't even gotten them all. He was talking to a friend who was like, oh my gosh, those pans are actually terrible after you use them for a while. Cause this person had bought them, his friend was like, they started to basically fall apart. And so then he was...
Wilhelmina (42:58.071)
Where did he get it from?
Lauren (43:01.599)
Yeah, what if you don't like it? Okay.
Wilhelmina (43:20.962)
please let us know via text message what they are.
Vanessa (43:22.318)
He was really sad about it because he thought he was solving our nonstick pan problem. So he basically, we waited till they all came and then we sent them back. didn't even open the packages. So now he is now doing more research. So I will get back to you all once he's done with his deep dive into the pans.
Teri (43:23.878)
Okay.
Teri (43:34.118)
you
Lauren (43:34.615)
What a bummer.
Wilhelmina (43:39.116)
Yes, please do.
Lauren (43:40.289)
Well, it's like paper straws. It's like they suck, right? It's like, I know they think they're solving a problem, but excuse me, they are terrible. They're terrible. Yes, yes.
Wilhelmina (43:44.347)
God, paper straws are the worst.
Teri (43:46.159)
Yes.
Vanessa (43:46.51)
Oh. No, no.
Wilhelmina (43:51.308)
Speaking of like dry skin, lips are it's stuck to the straw!
Vanessa (43:57.036)
my God, and then they have these like pla- like they're not, so I think they tried to make a different version of the straw and it's like made out of plastic, but it's not. And then they always have cracks in them. So then you're like holding the straw in four places. Trying to like hold the like holes.
Lauren (44:03.639)
Right.
Not good, right. Makes it worse.
Right. It's always going to be something I was going to say,
Wilhelmina (44:15.778)
it's just, you can't win. You can never win.
Vanessa (44:16.334)
That went... Alright ladies, any more thoughts on today's topic?
Teri (44:20.006)
It's always something. Always something.
Teri (44:26.8)
The only thing I would add related to cognitive diffusion in terms of separating, not treating your thoughts like facts, I have two, I'm a huge fan of one-liners in my therapy work and I feel like a lot, all of us are probably, and the two are don't believe everything you think and thoughts are not facts. And sometimes just reminding yourself of that can be helpful.
Lauren (44:30.945)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (44:44.534)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Lauren (44:44.769)
Yep. Yep.
Lauren (44:50.807)
Yeah, absolutely.
Wilhelmina (44:52.044)
Yep. Yep.
Vanessa (44:52.664)
Yeah, and talking. So, you know, I mentioned the therapy thing, but even just talking like, well, Amina said, you're glad that Terry brought it up. So you, you know, talk to your friend, you know, I think just sometimes saying these things out loud can make you feel like, yeah, it's not such a big deal, especially when someone might say, yeah, you know, I've had that same thought, like, you know, and it can help minimize it. It can also help you like, if you're worried, like, is this, is this something I should be worried about sort of thing? So I think talking about it is really helpful.
Lauren (45:04.063)
It makes it
Wilhelmina (45:05.558)
Yes.
Teri (45:05.638)
Yeah.
Lauren (45:17.804)
Right.
Vanessa (45:21.398)
I'm kind of putting it out there to see how, you know, people think about it.
Lauren (45:21.526)
Yeah.
stops it from snowballing.
Wilhelmina (45:24.46)
Well, and with that, sometimes I was like, am I the only one still using nonstick pans? Am I the only one? So honestly, when Terry said that and then we all chimed in, I was like, okay, I'm not the only one. And that honestly comforted me. I was like, well, we'll all die together then, okay? Like we're all gonna go at the same time. But I was like, okay.
Lauren (45:30.847)
Yeah
Lauren (45:36.078)
I know.
Vanessa (45:38.958)
Died by nonstick Fran.
Lauren (45:41.047)
Seriously.
Lauren (45:45.591)
you
Wilhelmina (45:52.802)
Cause of death not stick pan
Vanessa (45:53.486)
I'm sorry.
Lauren (45:54.131)
you
Teri (45:56.582)
four people at the same time.
Vanessa (45:57.582)
gosh.
Wilhelmina (45:59.906)
my gosh. But it did. was sort of like, was, sort of brought me down to earth. I'm like, okay, this is not in my head. I created something like I am the last woman on earth using gnostic pants. Not true. Not true.
Vanessa (46:09.163)
Hahaha!
Lauren (46:10.487)
You
Vanessa (46:11.822)
Not true. All right, everyone. Thank you for joining us today. Please join us next time on The Shrinkdown.
Wilhelmina (46:18.732)
you