Note: This transcript was AI-generated and has not been edited for errors.
[Dan Hope]
Welcome into Real Pod Wednesdays, Dan Hope, joined by Andy Anders as Ohio State has now completed its first two days of spring football practice. Andy and I have both been at the Woody Hayes Athletic Center earlier today, as well as on Monday, to see a portion of the Buckeyes' first-year practice, the portion that we were allowed to watch, as well as go through several interview sessions with Ryan Day, with Ohio State's quarterbacks and Ohio State quarterbacks coach Billy Fessler, as well as Ohio State's running backs and running backs coach Carlos Laughlin.
When you think about everything we've seen and heard over these first two days, Andy, what are the biggest things or biggest thing, perhaps, that stood out to you so far?
[Andy Anders]
Well, I think you have to start with the quarterbacks, right? I mean, this is spring practice, there's a quarterback competition at Ohio State. So I think that's where all the attention, all the eyes are going to go.
And it's small, but to me, I guess the biggest thing that caught my attention, these two practices we watched, these two hours of practice we got to watch, was Julian Sands' release and just how quickly the ball leaves his hand when you're watching him stand, because there was a drill Ohio State's been doing where all three quarterbacks stand next to each other and throw routes on air. And just how fast the ball comes out of Julian's hand and how much zip it has, despite the quickness of that release. I talked about it a little bit on press coverage earlier in the week, but just it's pretty impressive to see that.
Now, that doesn't mean he's guaranteed the starting job. It doesn't mean the quarterback competition is over. Quite the opposite.
We heard Billy Fessler say on Wednesday that they're not even close to saying how close it is yet, which seems a little over overselling it a little bit, maybe. But obviously, Ohio State a long way from naming a starting quarterback. Don't expect that to get done in the spring in general.
Just watching them throw on air, though, and it is throwing on air, Julian has really impressed me in just, again, that release, the zip he has on the ball. You can tell the talents that made him the number one quarterback in his class. To me, I think that's been one of the most eye-catching things, the two days we've gotten to watch practice and watching these quarterbacks throw.
[Dan Hope]
You mentioned what Billy Fessler said, and I thought it was interesting on Wednesday, I don't remember if it was you or someone else, asked him about how Julian's release stands out and what is special about that. He talked about Julian has this great release, but they also want to work on the other elements. We'll play that clip for you right now.
[Billy Fessler]
Julian definitely has a quick release, that's for sure. I think that it can definitely be an advantage, just the ability to get the ball to the receivers quickly, but at the same point, you can't sacrifice arm strength for a quick release. We're continuing to work to build that arm strength, to strengthen his core, to work rotationally because he is such a rotational thrower.
To be able to maximize his movements, both between his lower half and his upper half, so he can get that ball out with enough velocity to be successful. He definitely has a quick release, but there's so much more to playing the position of quarterback than just having a quick release. We're really working through all those other things right now.
[Dan Hope]
I think that's interesting because Julian's release is getting a lot of talk this week from you and others, but it's not just that that's going to ultimately go into winning the starting quarterback job. There's both the physical elements of being an Ohio State quarterback, the passing ability that whoever Ohio State starter is, needs to have to get the ball accurately to Jeremiah Smith and Carnell Tate and Brandon Ennis and all these other weapons that they'll have at their disposal. But then the big thing that Ryan Day has talked about, both of his interview sessions before the spring and after the first practice of the spring, is he's talked repeatedly about toughness and leadership are the two things that they want to see from their Ohio State quarterback.
He said that the quarterback has to be the hardest worker in the building, he has to be a leader for everybody to rally around, and he's got to be tough. And I think you think about the qualities that made Will Howard such a great quarterback for Ohio State this past year. And what everybody always says about Will, you know, I think we talked about it ad nauseum about how Will, by the end of the year, was not getting enough credit for how good of a passer he became for Ohio State.
He developed incredibly in that regard. There were a lot of physical things that Will did very well for Ohio State last season. But what really made Will special for Ohio State was his leadership, were his intangibles, which Billy Fessler said, you know, he talked about it on Wednesday, he said, you know, I haven't been doing this for 35 years or anything, but he said, Will Howard's intangibles are by far the best I've ever been around.
You know, that's certainly high praise for Will Howard. And, you know, I think he just had this ability about it. I mean, it's even when you just think about the setting of a press conference or an interview session, just sitting down at the microphone and talking to the media, he just has this natural presence about him that draws you to him.
And I think that's something that probably all of these quarterbacks still need to work on developing. And I think that's one reason why Ryan Day keeps bringing it up, is I think Julian's saying the physical tools are there. Now, you know, he's gotten a little bigger this offseason.
That was certainly a point of emphasis for him. You know, continuing to develop as a passer is certainly going to be key. But I think the big thing for him now is starting to assert himself as a leader, starting to, you know, assert himself as a guy that the offense can build around.
And that's a big jump because you go from last year being the freshman who was a third string quarterback in the room to now you're competing to be that starting guy. And that's true for all these guys. I mean, Lincoln, you know, he got his one, you know, amount of significant playing time at the end of his freshman year in the Cotton Bowl where he really gets thrust into an extremely difficult situation where Devin Brown gets hurt and the offensive line is struggling.
He drops back to being the fourth string quarterback last year. And then now he's trying to compete for a starting job. And then you have Tavian St. Clair is coming in as a true freshman. And so, you know, I think there's really two elements of this. One is, you know, who's the best passer on the field? And that's the simple part of the equation.
The other is who can really become that leader that the team rallies around? And I think that may be the bigger question, not that I'm saying I don't think Julian Sane will become that guy or can become that guy. But I think that may be the bigger thing that he needs to prove right now is not does he have that physical ability to pass the ball, but can he become that leader that Ohio State needs to run its offense?
[Andy Anders]
Yeah. And I think that's a common trend when you talk about any quarterback stepping into a starting role for the first time, especially when you're a second year player or even, you know, a redshirt sophomore in Lincoln Kienholz's case, especially when you're a true freshman in Tavian St. Clair's case. I mean, Will Howard came into Ohio State with four years of experience at Kansas State, multiple years as a starter with the Wildcats.
And that gave him that background, that knowledge of how to lead a team, how to take command of the huddle, because you do have to be that guy as the quarterback. You have to be the ultimate team leader, command of the huddle, commanding respect, showing like Ryan Day has said that you're willing to put in the extra hours where we know very well Will was a film junkie that was very well-proclaimed by him, by coaches. He was watching extra film during class.
Like this is the kind of commitment you need to show to your teammates. And that's where leadership starts, I think. It starts by an example thing.
Then you can build up your vocal leadership. And I think back to when C.J. Stroud was first becoming the quarterback at Ohio State, I think this was also something with him we saw where year two, you're just getting thrust into this role where you're going to have to be the starting quarterback, whichever of those three guys it is. It's a similar trajectory of you now have to take on those reins and develop your voice because I do think that's something C.J. had to learn and how his career turned out. So certainly something that can be developed and grown over time and guys lead in different ways. I think another thing that's been important in drilling down on this, and particularly as it pertains to Julian, that I've heard Billy Fessler really reiterate when we've spoken to him, particularly on Wednesday, was consistency. And for Julian, when you talk about a guy who we saw a couple practices last year where he was lighting it up, making throws that it looked like no one else could make and just lasering it in between multiple defenders, and then there were days like the spring game he didn't perform well, had a couple of bad passes in his very limited opportunities during the season.
Had the odd bad practice here and there that we viewed, like that consistency element. And you don't expect that from a freshman. And it kind of took me back watching Tavian today because Tavian overthrew a couple guys when they were doing routes on air.
You don't expect that consistency to be there yet as a freshman. But now coming into year two, when you talk about Julian developing into the guy potentially or any of the three, again, that consistency is the other element that I think with that leadership, with that, you talk about intangibles in general, that consistency element is something that you just have to have nailed down as a quarterback, especially in this offense with how intricate it is for a quarterback, how many reads you have to make, the passes, getting the ball where it needs to go. Consistency is so vital. And so to me, I think that's the other element that's going to be key, particularly for Julian, but for all three quarterbacks, as they try to win this battle going forward.
[Dan Hope]
And that's a challenging thing, I think, for us to evaluate right now because I think people will see us out at practice and they kind of want us to be able to tell them, like, who's the best quarterback right now? And by design, Ohio State only lets us watch practice, at least these first couple practices, until they get to the point where the offense starts going against the defense. Then they go, all right, Jerry, time for your guys to go.
Jerry being Ohio State's sports information director. And then we don't actually get to see the offense versus the defense, which is what really would tell us who's doing the best of the quarterbacks or of any of the players right now. And so without having that, for me, it's hard to come out of these two practices and say quarterbacks or any position that anybody's truly standing out or raising their stock or anything like that because we just haven't seen enough of that.
Hopefully, as the spring progresses, we'll get to see some more of that, particularly on Student Appreciation Day and the Spring Showcase. But just going off of what they're doing in individual drills, you can see traits, you can see things like that. You can't necessarily judge performance as a whole over the course of how they're doing in practice.
And so a lot of that is still going to remain to be seen in terms of how they perform over the rest of the spring. They're just two practices in. But certainly, we've said it all along.
I mean, we think Julian is the frontrunner. I think we both still think that. It's just a matter of what do we see over the spring as a whole.
Can he really lock that job down? And, you know, Billy Fessler, to your point, did not want to divulge anything on Wednesday or didn't want to, like I said, probably even exaggerated the amount to which nothing is settled yet. But I think there is a true element of the fact that, you know, nothing is settled yet because of the fact it's only two practices in.
[Andy Anders]
Yeah, and even if you do have a frontrunner, maybe in the back of your mind, for motivational purposes, you don't want to necessarily let whoever that frontrunner is know. Like you want them, especially during the spring when it's all about development, improving your game, being pushed to just get as much growth as you can in before the real grind starts in summer and fall. You want that push and that challenge.
But, you know, don't want to spend the entire episode dwelling on quarterbacks, of course. There have been other takeaways from these first practices. We spoke to the running backs on Wednesday.
And for me, watching practice, I think, Carlos Laughlin is always so fun to watch coach. It's not even that particularly relevant maybe to Ohio State's season coming up. But just watching him get in there and yell, he rides the running backs hard.
And you can tell by the steps that Travion and Quenshawn took last year in sort of their holistic games, right? The giant strides we saw Travion take as a blocker last year. Like these are indicative of good running back coaching.
And we got to be the running backs were the closest position group to us as the media. They were working right along the sideline in front of us. And it was a ball security period.
And if the running back missed like a single step, if he didn't have the ball held the exact right way, Carlos Laughlin stopped the drill, yelled at him, go do it again. And he did it to James Peoples and he did it to CJ Donaldson, who are the top two guys in the room. And I thought that's a great example as a coach to set that, like, you're going to be even harder on your top guys than you are on the guys that are still young and developing.
Like just because you've got maybe some years of starting experience with CJ Donaldson, just because you're in line to maybe be the guy this year like James Peoples, you're still going to get that hard coaching. And I think that's something that was just pretty fun to appreciate. But speaking to the running backs, James Peoples was the main guy.
I was excited to talk to, got a chance to speak with him. And he's always a good interview. I think it's interesting just with him and he, he's a very serious driven person.
You just get that sense talking to him that there's not a sense of pressure. He knows the role that is coming up for him this year. He's going to be at the very least it seems working in tandem with CJ Donaldson.
If not emerging as more of a feature back as the course of the year goes on, we'll see how that dynamic plays out between them. They've got very complimentary styles. So both will get use certainly, but I've stayed at all off season.
I'm curious to see exactly how much James Peoples emerges, but just it's, it's a confidence that you like to see from a player that is confident in his work, that he's put in, is confident in his approach to practice and how much, how seriously he's willing to put in the game. We also got to dive into the JK Dobbins comparison. I asked him about it cause you know, I, I made that.
And then it got backed up by Trevi on it, the combine. And I was pretty happy about it. And he said, he sees a lot of similarities with he and JK's game, that ability to make one cut and be a slasher as he put it has a really good jump cut ability.
But just to hear James and the lessons he took from Trey and Q last year, willing to wait his turn. And then this year he's, he's excited. You can tell there's like this quiet confidence excitement to show exactly what he could do in this offense.
But you know, obviously it's going to come in tandem with CJ Donaldson. So I think there's a lot of reason to be, my excitement is growing about this running back tandem a little bit. Same here.
[Dan Hope]
And I think that's not just because of James peoples, but I think also because of CJ Donaldson, you know, I think one of the questions, you know, coming in was, you know, with, with his size, you know, would he have that extra gear? And he's already lost 18 pounds since he arrived at Ohio state. He was two 44.
He's now down to two 26. And I think he had probably the best quote of the day on Wednesday when he said, I feel like I'm, I'm running like the flash out there right now because of the weight that he's lost. And, and he's a guy, he lost some weight, but he's still yoked.
Like he's, he's a grown man. He, that dude, he's got, he's got a build to him. And I think if he, you know, can get some extra speed while still maintaining that power and strength that he's had throughout his career back at West Virginia, he's a guy who has the potential to be an excellent back for Ohio state as well.
And so I think the, the potential of this one-two punch for Ohio state between James peoples and CJ Donaldson, whatever that dynamic looks like in, in terms of carries, I think has the potential to be a very good running back tandem for Ohio state. I agree with you. And I think my confidence and optimism in that group is, is growing here a couple of days into spring because, you know, both those guys, again, it's, you know, spring, I mean, to me running backs in general, spring's always a hard time to evaluate because you're not seeing a lot of full contact, you know, trying to run over guys like we know CJ Donaldson's going to be trying to do in games, but just physically both those guys look apart and, you know, going back to Carlos Laughlin for a moment, you mentioned how hard he coaches guys, but you know, you also just get the sense of it. Guys love playing for him. Like, you know, CJ Donaldson mentioned it, you know, when I, when I asked him, I said, you know, what made you decide Ohio state?
He said, the thing that separated Ohio state was Carlos Laughlin and the way he thought that Carlos Laughlin would develop him. I mean, Quinton Judkins said similar Earl, well, Quinton Judkins came in after, but he talked a lot about how, you know, Carlos Laughlin developed him. Travion Henderson has talked several times about how Carlos Laughlin made him a better player than he was beforehand.
And so I think Carlos Laughlin, you know, one year in now, you know, at, at Ohio state after, you know, the obvious you know, mid spring transition a year ago from Tony Alford to Carlos Laughlin. I think that's been a home run higher for Ohio state so far. And I think just seeing the way that he's coaching guys out on the practice field just kind of fervor cements that in terms of, you know, the fact that it really seems like, you know, Ryan day did a fantastic job being thrust into an unexpected situation.
They're having to hire a running backs coach mid spring. It seems like by bringing in Carlos Laughlin, he really found the perfect fit for that group.
[Andy Anders]
Yeah. And the other, another point I wanted to make on CJ Donaldson too. And a great question I thought on a Wednesday that was asked of him by Bill Landis at West Virginia faced one of the highest rates of seven and eight NAM boxes in the country over his two seasons.
There was something like it was, I believe over 60% West Virginia saw a lot of heavy boxes against them. And you'd have to think coming to Ohio state and Ohio state saw its share of heavy boxes last year too. But with this passing attack with Jeremiah Smith, with Brandon Innocent, Carnell Tate and Max Claire and all these weapons that are surrounding you on the perimeter, I've talked in the past of like CJ Donaldson being kind of this known entity.
The two years at West Virginia, you put up very similar numbers right around four and a half yards per carry right around 800 yards, the exact same number of touchdowns both years, but maybe there is another gear he can get to when you surround him with these perimeter playmakers and space out the offense a little more because like that creates so much more room for a running back. Obviously when you don't have that extra guy or two in the box to plug up those running lanes and lighter boxes, especially when you're running between the tackles and you're that style of back who's getting downhill, breaking tackles, finishing runs hard. I feel like that is something that could benefit CJ Donaldson.
And maybe we do see a step up if not in his total production, at least like his yard per carry numbers, those sorts of things over the course of the season and the weight loss, as you mentioned, running like the flash is going to help with that too. So frankly, I'm interested to see just what it looks like even as we maybe get to watch him at student appreciation day later in spring or in the spring game of like, is there more of a design to get him in space and show some more of that in his game, given the perimeter playmakers that now surround him in this offense?
[Dan Hope]
Not that it comes as any surprise, but I think another guy who stood out early this spring is Jeremiah Smith, just because he is Jeremiah Smith. I mean, he's got, he was just named an iron Buckeye on Wednesday and you can see why because physically he, he looks like he's he's put on some muscle and he's a, you know, more physically built guy than he was a year ago, which you expect from a freshman to a sophomore. But when you think about how good he already was last year, he certainly doesn't look like he's lost any speed or quickness while also looking even stronger.
You just, you know, it's one of those things. We kind of went into last year with Jeremiah and it was like, how high or too high? And you're like, he's going to get a thousand yards and that seemed bold.
And then it turned out to be nothing. And so it's like, how high is too high? It's like, I don't even know where to go with it because like he was already so good last year.
And you just feel like he's doing all the right things so far to take another big jump this year. And so it's going to be really fun to watch him continue to develop this spring, this off season going into his second year at Ohio state. I think another second year ride receiver who can also make a big jump.
And in his case, it could amount from not playing much a year ago to certainly playing more this year is Mylon Graham. And I think he's another guy that that's caught my eye in these first couple of practices, just physically, you know, you can see that skillset that made him a five-star wide receiver. We've already seen him mix in some with the first team offense.
Now, you know, I don't think he's likely to be a starter for this Ohio state team because, you know, he has lined up primarily on the outside. Obviously Jeremiah Smith, Carnell Tate are going to be both outside starters. You know, Brandon in is likely to be that starter in the slot with Bryce and Rogers also mixing in some there, but Mylon's a guy, you know, we we've talked about it before.
What exactly could playing time look like as that number four receiver? We don't know, but you know, Ryan day mentioned it the other day, like you're looking at all these things in, in spring about what can you do to get your best players on the field. And, you know, he mentioned like one of those things is like, if we have four really good receivers, how do we get those guys on the field?
As soon as I heard that comment in my head, I'm like, he's talking about Mylon Graham. Isn't he? Like, I was just where my mind went is like, he's thinking about if Mylon Graham was as good as we think he can be.
How do we get this guy on the field more?
[Andy Anders]
Yeah. I mean, five-star prospect, and I've talked about it before, like that. One of the options for that could be as a returner, get him some reps in the return game.
We've seen him fielding punts along with a group of five other players. The first man in those lines has been Brandon Ennis, which I don't think is a surprise. Caleb Downs.
[Dan Hope]
I think it was Caleb Downs on Wednesday, but they've been kind of rotating those first reps, which is what they did last year.
[Andy Anders]
Gotcha. Yeah. So Monday it was Brandon first, but yes, in spring, you're going to get a mix of guys.
And with Mylon too, you know, it was because at the start of practice, Ohio state opened with a team drill, just like formations and walkthroughs on Wednesday. Mylon was lined up on the outside with Brandon Ennis in the slot and Jeremiah Smith in the other outside the X receiver position. Then as we were walking off the field, they had Bryce and Rogers lined up in the slot with Ennis on the outside and Jeremiah Smith on the other flank.
Now, just to reassure everybody, Carnell Tate was fine. He was participating in practice. It's just, they were giving him a lighter day.
We've heard Ryan Day reference. They're going to give some of those guys that had a lot of reps on their bodies from last season, some of those veterans, some lighter practices during the spring. So definitely you can see the efforts there with Carnell.
But to me, it does feel like there's a kind of a real competition emerging and we've talked about it between Mylon and Bryson for that number four receiver role to be the next guy in for Ohio state. And Mylon is probably going to be more of an outside guy while Bryson is more in the slot. So it may depend situationally who you want to plug in between those guys, but also all three of Ohio state starters are capable of playing all three receiver positions.
That is how Brian Hartline coaches his unit. So I'll be interested to see the mix in because you could really reorder that starting group however you want to get a guy off the field and put in. So can Mylon Graham cement himself above Bryson Rogers?
Is he going to rise to that level to where, like you said, he's too good to keep off the field in year two. Another unit where we've seen some shuffling and more concrete along the starting line at the start of spring practice here is offensive line. You know me, I love some offensive line talk.
Not that we expect this to be the case come fall, but Austin Cerebell working at left tackle with the ones. Ohio state has been working its transfers in slowly. Both Ethan Arneonga and Phillip Daniels have been working with the second line on these first two spring practices, have not been mixing in with the ones, although we expect certainly Ethan to be the starting left tackle come fall.
And Phillip Daniels is probably the front runner at right tackle, though Ian Moore, who was with the ones both Monday and Wednesday, is expected to maybe give him a competition for that spot. But just to see Austin working at left tackle, when I wrote a piece earlier this week where Ohio State, I think, is in general is emphasizing a lot more of versatility, flexibility, cross training at different positions along the offensive line to build depth. And we saw it last year.
Versatility arguably saved Ohio State's national championship season along the offensive line with what Donovan Jackson did, moving out to left tackle from left guard. Carson Hensman playing multiple positions, guard, center. Another guy they mentioned specifically as doing some of that cross training was Luke Montgomery, who they want to be experienced and ready to play both guard and center this year.
So that also maybe raises some questions about where is Josh Padilla and his development if we're talking about Luke Montgomery as maybe that next option at center should something happen to Carson Hensman. Saw some strides from Josh Padilla at the end of last year. It's very early.
This is probably the toughest position for us to judge from anything in practice right now, or at least one of them is offensive line because we're not seeing contact. We're not seeing pads popping, lots of pass rush, all this stuff that would be more telling of offensive linemen and where they're at. But even just from those few depth chart alignments, Dan, I think we got some pretty good takeaways on that front five from these first two practices.
[Dan Hope]
And Austin Searville was also named as an Iron Buckeye on Wednesday. So that tells you what they think of him as someone who, we saw him start, he started six games last year, never in a permanent role, but was a guy who was consistently called upon to fill in as they did have injuries over the course of the year. At the end of the year, he ended up in that rotational role where Luke and Tegra were starting at guard, but he was still getting in there, playing a lot.
And so it's uncertain where exactly he'll fit in on this offensive line this year because they have him and Luke and Tegra primarily playing guard. So the fact that he's getting those reps at tackle is interesting. And I do believe Ethan Onianwa will ultimately be their starting left tackle.
But what I think it tells me is that if they were to end up in a situation like last year, where all of a sudden they need someone else to play left tackle, that Austin Searville might be that next man up. That's what it tells me is not so much that I think he'll remain the first team left tackle, but that he might be the next man up at left tackle. If something was to happen to Ethan Onianwa, he might be that guy who slides out in place there, much like we saw with Donovan Jackson a year ago.
And so I think it's obviously a couple of days into practice. At the same time, you only have 15 practice. You're not throwing guys out there just to play games.
You have to make the reps matter. And so you're not doing that just for the sake of doing it. If there was no intention of ever playing him at tackle, you wouldn't be spending the time putting him out there.
So the fact that they're putting him out there shows that they at least want that to be an option, that if they need Austin Searville to play tackle, that he can. And I think the fact that they have three guys who are kind of starting caliber guards there gives them more flexibility to move all of them around. Like I said, I wouldn't be surprised if we see Tegre out there at tackle at some point.
Luke moving him to center. I think Josh Padilla is a guy who still is probably going to be that backup center. But again, just giving those guys different opportunities, experimenting with ways to get all three of them on the field together.
I think all of that is worthwhile, especially here in the spring and especially when the reality is, because of some recruiting misses in past years, the overall numbers on the – I think we feel like they have a pretty good core group of guys there on the offensive line. But the overall numbers, the overall depth on the offensive line still isn't quite as strong as you would like it to be. And so having guys that can do multiple things is something that can help.
If we flip it over to the other side of the ball, I think that probably the thing that stood out the most in the first couple days of practice has been Malik Hartford lining up as a first-team safety alongside Caleb Downs. We've talked about it that we think one of the bigger position battles of this offseason is going to be Malik Hartford versus Jalen McClain for that starting strong safety job alongside Caleb Downs. And again, we haven't had those opportunities to really see team drills yet, guys in pads yet, which might give us more context, clues into terms of who's performing better in that battle.
But the fact that Malik's, at least from what I've seen, has gotten all the first-team reps while we've been out there at practice so far suggests that he's at least getting that first look, that first shot to win a starting job alongside Caleb Downs.
[Andy Anders]
Yeah, and the mix of coverages, we talked about it being a storyline to watch this spring. Some of those limited formational stuff we saw, coverage stuff we saw, even against air. Toward the end of practice, I saw a look where Caleb Downs was coming down to the line of scrimmage almost like another nickel, and Malik Hartford was dropping deep.
I think one of the interesting things we talked about Jalen McClain maybe fitting into more of that classical strong safety build, but maybe with how Matt Patricia's multiple defenses have looked with some of the stuff they want to do with Caleb playing 10 to 12 yards off the ball or even closer, as we saw in some of those coverage rules on Wednesday, is Malik having more of that free safety type of build maybe allows him to play more of the deep center field coverage and have Caleb be that free roamer we saw him. We've talked about the nickel position needing to be what Jordan Hancock was last year with that versatile ability to roll back and forth, but if you have a more true center fielder, not that Latham Ransom wasn't also really good in deep zone coverage, but if you have that almost free safety type of build playing alongside Caleb Downs, there are certain elements of his game that I think that can really open up. So we heard Matt Guerrero say earlier in the spring that this is going to be maybe even a bigger spring than we expected.
Malik Hartford's going to show some things this offseason. So far, what we've seen in these first two practices has backed that up and really, I think if you're investing in stocks for this team, one of the biggest ones I'd buy shares in right now is Malik Hartford because it does seem like there's a real plan to involve him heavily in this defense.
[Dan Hope]
And we have seen so far in these spring practices, Lorenzo Stiles has been getting a lot of those first team looks there at the nickel spot. We have seen Jermaine Matthews getting some reps in that nickel spot as well. So I think that's another position that's going to be interesting to monitor.
Again, I think it's all kind of connected there, the safety and the nickel in terms of what this team is going to do coverage-wise, the different packages that it might utilize in the secondary this year under Matt Patricia in tandem with Tim Walton and Matt Guerrero. And that's going to be a fascinating storyline to watch throughout the season as they kind of figure out, number one, it's like it all starts with Caleb Downs. How do you best utilize Caleb Downs and put him in positions to make plays?
And then two, kind of how do you build the secondary around him? I think we know Davison Igbenos and Jermaine Matthews are going to play big roles in that. Another guy who certainly stands out physically is Devin Sanchez, just watching him going through cornerback drills.
I know I posted a video of that on X on Wednesday, and a lot of people were also very impressed just watching him. You just see his quick feet, just the way he moves. And every one of those guys, kind of like we remarked on with Jeremiah a year ago, that he doesn't look like a guy right now who's a freshman going through his second spring practice.
And again, this is just individual drills. We're not necessarily talking about live reps going head-to-head with the likes of Jeremiah Smith and Carnell Tate and Brandon Innes and all that. But just physically, he's a guy that looks the part.
You can see why. He was a five-star recruit. And I think a lot of these freshmen are impressive physically.
Quincy Porter's a guy, I think, that stands out in terms of how well-built he is as a freshman. Bo Jackson's a guy at running back. I think he looks like a guy who's more well-built than your typical freshman running back.
Carter Lowe's a massive man there on the offensive line. Zion Grady, he looks like somebody who's ready to go play college football on the defensive line. Riley Pettijohn at linebacker.
There's just a lot of impressive-looking freshmen out there. I think Sanchez is the one who's going to headline the list because I think he's probably the one we expect to have the biggest chance to play a major role this season. But they have a lot of midyear enrollees this year, and a lot of them just physically look the part.
[Andy Anders]
Yeah, and continuing down that line with Devin Sanchez, I mean, it's funny, another number four is standing out in the spring as a freshman at Ohio State. But we've talked, I think, and heard from Ryan Day and other defensive staff members too about Jermaine having an ability to play nickel. And I think that's on purpose where we've seen that emphasized because that's what could clear the way for Devin Sanchez to get on the field is if you slide one of those other corners over.
Because it really feels like it's Jermaine's turn. Obviously, Davidson is going to be starting at one of the corner spots. So that's how you kind of have to make room for him.
And so we've talked all offseason about this being a big spring for Lorenzo Stiles. And so far, we've seen he's out there with the ones consistently. He's working in that nickel role.
Ryan Day did talk him up, but seemed to have a plan for him or be talking about him in the future plans of the defense when we spoke to Ryan on Monday. Said something along the lines of is Lorenzo going to factor in as a corner or is he going to factor in as a safety? Like how does he actually fit in that nickel spot?
Which does, again, seem to indicate that there's a plan to use Lorenzo. Does that evolve through spring? Does he capitalize on that?
Does he claim that job? Who's to say and how much can Devin push him? I think, again, it's early enough to where you want to see it with the pads on.
You want to see how Devin can hold up in coverage and how refined truly is his game. I've been impressed with his polish watching him on tape. I've talked about that before.
Very fluid corner, has some of that technical mastery already down, playing some really good high school competition in Texas, but it's another level here. And so if he does show that technical aspect, that's what's going to drive him to put him on the field, make it so you can't keep him off the field as a freshman and maybe then you have to make room for him and things get a little more shaky for Lorenzo. But you could still see a hefty mix of both guys if you get to that role too.
So a lot of unanswered questions, as we've said before, in this secondary, and I think it's my favorite storyline to watch with the defense is exactly how they fit all these moving parts in with that back five.
[Dan Hope]
Yeah, I mean, the defensive front six feels pretty set to me in terms of who the top guys are right now, being Kenyatta Jackson, Caden Curry, defensive end, Edric Houston, Caden McDonald, defensive tackle, Sonny Stiles, R.L. Reese, linebacker. Now that's not to say there aren't still battles happening there because there's a lot of other guys that are trying to get on the field to earn playing time at those positions. We're seeing C.J. Hicks, that long-rumored move to the edge, it's happening. He's been a full-time edge defender these first two days of practice and he looks the part. He looks like he's gotten bigger physically. So I think he and Logan George in particular are two guys at that defensive end spot to watch.
How much can they push Kenyatta and Caden? Do we see more like what we saw the last couple years where a couple defensive ends play the bulk of the snaps? Or could we see more like we saw in some of Larry Johnson's earlier years where you have three or four defensive ends rotating heavily and nobody playing a clear majority of the snaps?
I think a lot of that is going to depend on how well C.J. Hicks and Logan George acclimate themselves as Ohio State defensive ends this offseason. I think defensive tackle depth's the question mark there. Tywon Malone, Will Smith Jr. has been out there getting those second-team reps at nose tackle. I think that's going to be an interesting player to watch there. Those two guys as well as Jason Moore. Between those three guys, can at least two of those guys solidify themselves as quality second-string defensive tackle for this team?
Because that's what needs to happen this spring. If it doesn't happen, then Ohio State will need to look in the post-spring transfer portal window to see who's out there for somebody who can fortify that depth. The goal, the hope, is that you come out of spring feeling good about at least two of those guys as your backup defensive tackles.
It seems like Tywon and Will have gotten most of the second reps at DT when we've been out there so far, but it's still early. We'll see how that progresses over the course of the spring. At linebacker, it still feels like Peyton Pierce is that third guy.
We'll see again with it going from Jim Knowles to Matt Patricia. Will there be more opportunities for that third linebacker to play? Will they rotate more at linebacker?
How much will they use free linebacker sets? We saw them do it in some games they did a lot, some games not as much with Arvell Reese last year. We'll see what that might look like with Peyton Pierce.
I do see him out there in a lot of the special teams stuff, so I feel like he's going to be one of those guys at a minimum that's going to play a ton of special teams this year, and he'll probably be that third linebacker to play in those free linebacker packages. I think my question there is just, does he become a guy that forces himself into a rotation where it becomes more of a rotation at linebacker, or does he primarily play in those free linebacker packages with Sonny and Arvell getting most of the snaps?
[Andy Anders]
Yeah, and we've heard James talk about that linebacker room as kind of the first three names out of his mouth all the time as guys at the top of the list are Peyton Pierce with Arvell Reese and Sonny Stiles, and so definitely you can tell James thinks highly of him, but he's still got some stuff to prove if he wants to make it a true rotation. And also, I think Jim Knowles, there was a hesitancy to really roll linebackers his three years at Ohio State. I think you look at the course of his time here, other than maybe some stuff he did with Cody Simon at the end of 2023, working in a little heavier, there was a general, you just felt a reluctancy to really rotate linebackers that heavily, and so does that trend with Matt Patricia at the helm.
That could be something interesting to monitor, as you mentioned. For the defensive tackles, I mean, you just think back to last season, and this is a group with a lot to prove in terms of the depth because Edrick Houston had converted from defensive end, was a freshman. This is a guy that you maybe should have had a leg up on, as talented as he is, if you're more veteran players like a Jason Moore, like a Tywon Malone, like all these guys, and you didn't manage to hold off him on the depth chart.
When Tyleek Williams was out earlier in the season, we saw Hiro Kanu, we saw Tywon Malone, we saw Jason Moore being the next guy's in, and then by later in the season, Edrick Houston had overtook them, which wasn't, they didn't have a lot of impressive game tape last year to say, hey, these guys are clear-cut, really solid depth options to your point. That's why you have this concern if you're Ohio State, where maybe it might be worth a look in the portal for defensive tackle depth if you don't see what you need to see out of that group this spring. So I think that, in terms of building depth, Dan, to your point, the two lines are kind of the most important places where Ohio State needs to build depth this spring.
We've talked about offensive line and offensive tackle specifically a lot, but defensive tackle is going to be really important for some of those guys to step up.
[Dan Hope]
We'll have lots more to talk about with spring football over the next few weeks. Before we wrap up here, of course, I want to talk a little bit about Ohio State basketball. The season officially coming to an end on Sunday as Ohio State missed the NCAA tournament.
We had talked about it last week. We had said they needed to win at least one game in the Big Ten tournament to give themselves a chance. They needed to win at least two games to really feel good about their Big Ten tournament chances.
But they could not lose the first game. They did, in fact, lose the first game, falling to Iowa in the first round, and that sealed their fate on making this year's NCAA tournament, meaning Ohio State has now missed the big dance three years in a row, the first time since 2005 that that has happened to Ohio State. Ohio State then subsequently choosing to decline its invitation to the college basketball crown, which means there is no postseason left for Ohio State.
The season is officially over for Ohio State men's basketball, and certainly a disappointing year, certainly a lot of backlash toward Ohio State and Jake Diebler right now because of the way the season ended. Now Jake Diebler is not going to get fired right now. I know there's some people that are out there saying that, but it's not going to happen right now.
Ross Bjork has thrown his support behind Jake Diebler multiple times, which in my opinion is the right decision. I think we could go back and relitigate Jake Diebler versus Dusty May. That's been done, will continue to be done.
The fact of the matter is they hired Jake Diebler at that time to make that decision then and then move on after just one year. I don't think would be the right way to handle this if you're Ross Bjork. So I think you've got to give Jake Diebler at least one more year to see if he can ripe a ship.
It sounds like Ohio State's going to be very active in the transfer portal, that they're working on getting their horses together to really try to make a run at some top players in the transfer portal, and that's certainly what Ohio State needs to do. If Ohio State is going to get back on track and start being a contender again, it's got to first and foremost build an elite roster and that all in today's era of college basketball, the transfer portal, we talk about it in football, but in basketball nowadays it's almost impossible to not use the transfer portal in basketball. It's just become such a massive part of college basketball and because your rosters are smaller, I think it can really swing a roster more than it does in football.
I think that's probably where it starts for Ohio State, is being really aggressive in the transfer portal and then if you can land some big pieces in the transfer portal, then you've got to develop them and then you've got to hope it all comes together so that you can finally get over the hump, as Ross Bjork said earlier this week, and get back into the big dance.
[Andy Anders]
Obviously I wrote a column over the weekend about just laying out a lot of my thoughts on where the state of the program is and for kind of a how the sausage is made moment for people. Sometimes I do a lot of my best writing late at night. That was kind of a late night, like getting the raw feelings about it out.
Again, and I talked about this openly in the article, as a journalist you try to stay unbiased a lot of times, but personally I like Jake a lot and he's been awesome to work with and also by the same token always gracious when you want to ask those tough questions. I know we the media sometimes get criticized for not asking enough tough questions of the programs when things aren't going well and that is hard to do and hard to strike that balance of being a professional, wanting to maintain that good working relationship, but at the same time really drilling down on the things that are bothering the program. I've said it all along, I think year two is the time to make definitive judgments on Jake and his viability as an Ohio State head coach.
Ohio State, I think when you sign a guy to a five-year deal, it's one year is just too soon to fire him anyway. But in any case, a lot of the point I wanted to make in that story and it was part of the headline obviously, is that Ohio State right now is losing a war with apathy. That a lot of this fan base and especially when the football team just won a national title, when it's now your third year in a row missing the NCAA tournament, a lot of the Ohio State fan base at large like just Ohio State athletics fan base is checked out of the basketball program.
You can see that in the attendance numbers, which I know are in a lot of ways impacted by the lack of weekend home games this year, but still you can see that just in like the comment section of any of my stories I think in a lot of ways. Apathy can be a real detriment to a program and I think Ross Bjork touched on that a little bit in the interview he gave with WOSU where he gave that meeting to get over the hump quote. Moving on from some of those thoughts from that column and we went over them a little bit in our press coverage after Ohio State missed the NCAA tournament on Sunday because a lot of the stuff that was said on Monday between Ross Bjork and Jake Diebler was interesting.
Getting, I think, while like you said, Dan, it might not be what a lot of fans want to hear right now that Ross Bjork has tons of confidence in Jake Diebler. It's the right thing to do if you want to see the program to succeed, to throw all the support you can behind him and there's been a report out from Jamie Shaw of On3 that there's going to be 8 to 10 million dollars of NIL investment into Ohio State. Don't have really a way to confirm that figure myself but if that is the case, then that will be really competitive in the transfer portal market and I think it's worth it to give Jake this off season to throw all the resources you can.
Football's always going to be king in Ohio State but throw all the resources you have available behind basketball to try and get those transfer portal assets that this team clearly needs. I think Austin Parks entering the transfer portal this week was the first sign of maybe things to come and addressing what I think is the number one position Ohio State needs to address, assuming it can retain its other stars, which is the center position. Iowa's Owen Freeman would be a great add that Ohio State's already been linked to and I think that's someone worth pursuing but in any case, you need a bona fide big man who can provide really a post scoring threat.
Devin Royal did a lot of great scoring from the power forward position but he wasn't always that post presence where back to the basket, get it to him five feet from the rim and he can make something happen. Sean Stewart and Aaron Bradshaw certainly weren't that. Austin Parks, clearly at this stage, I think it made the most sense for both parties for him to vacate and leave that scholarship open for Ohio State to go get that bona fide big who can give you 14 and eight consistently on a given night and really have that production out of the center position that Ohio State's been lacking, especially this year.
And we talked about it before, you don't mind taking this shot on the five stars with Aaron Bradshaw and Sean Stewart, but clearly something needs to give at that position. And then the other really big priority is of course going to be retention. If you can keep Bruce Thornton and John Mobley Jr., then it's about adding guard depth because they're going to need it desperately with losing Quest Lover and Micah Parrish, who are both out of eligibility. The lack of depth really hurt them at the end of this season. And so that is the other big need to address. I think adding that backcourt depth, wouldn't mind adding a really good wing either to kind of replace that scoring presence that Micah Parrish had on the wing.
Devin Royal's going to provide some of that, but I think you may be getting another really good three, depending on where Colin White is in his development too, because he can maybe be that in the future. Evan Mahaffey, you kind of know what you have at this point. I think he's best probably coming off the bench for Ohio State.
So exactly how Jake attacks the portal this off season and what he learns from some of the misses he had in the portal this year, it's going to make or break maybe his Ohio State career because it should be NCAA tournament or bust period next year for Ohio State. And we kind of said that going into this past season, that the NCAA tournament should be the expectation for this team, given what they had on the roster, given what the state of the program had been in. But now it really does feel like NCAA tournament or bust or like real considerations that Jake Biebler should be fired.
And I think Jake knows the expectation and the pressure that's on his shoulders. He said Ohio State needs to be at the forefront on Monday of the transfer portal. And so just, it's going to be a really important several weeks here coming up for Ohio State basketball and the future of Jake Biebler.
[Dan Hope]
I'll just say this. A lot of the people that I'm seeing calling on Ross Bjork to fire Jake Biebler right now are the same people who are calling on him to fire Ryan Day after the Michigan game and go hire Mike Brable. And we saw how that turned out.
So I'm not saying I think Ohio State basketball is going to win the national championship next year. If Ohio State misses the NCAA tournament next year, then I do think that it would be time to start having that conversation about a coaching change. But I think there's always just a tendency that when things go wrong, it's fire of a coach.
It's immediately just fire of a coach. And that's not always the solution to everything. So I think, again, getting more investment into the program, bulking up for Ross through the transfer portal, giving him another chance to try to build the roster the way that he wants to build it and construct the kind of team that he thinks can be successful at Ohio State.
You believed in that vision a year ago. I think to tear it up after one year because you were the third team out of the NCAA tournament would be an overreaction. If next year doesn't go well, we'll have a conversation then.
I'm interested to see how 2025-26 goes for Ohio State basketball. Because the pressure is certainly on for Jake Diebler. And certainly Ohio State fans want to have more reason to cheer for Ohio State men's basketball.
And they have not gotten enough of those reasons in recent years. So the pressure is certainly on for Ohio State to start winning again in a bigger way than they have in some time in Ohio State men's basketball. And we'll have to see.
We'll have to wait and see until next fall to see if that happens for Ohio State men's basketball. In the meantime, several other Ohio State teams will be competing in postseason play this weekend. Ohio State women's basketball playing in the NCAA tournament.
That will start on Friday when they play Montana State in the first round at the Schottenstein Center, 5.30 p.m. on ESPN2. I'll be there for that one. So coverage to come on 11warriors.com of Ohio State women's basketball's NCAA tournament run. Ohio State women's hockey will also be competing for a national championship this weekend trying to defend its national title as it goes to the Frozen Four. It'll play Cornell in the Frozen Four semifinals at 5 p.m. That game will be streamed on ESPN+. And then Ohio State men's hockey, which is having a really good season as well, will be competing for a Big Ten championship on Saturday.
That game at 7.30 p.m. on Big Ten Network against Michigan State. So several Ohio State sports teams, like Ohio State wrestling, they'll have some people at the NCAA championships this week as well. So a lot happening in Ohio State sports right now, football, basketball, hockey, and otherwise.
And we'll be continuing to cover all of it as best we can over at 11warriors.com. So we hope you stay tuned for all of our coverage over there. Until next time, he's Andy Anders.
I'm Dan Hope. This has been Real Pod Wednesdays.