Episode 3 Kevin Dooley CEO Kahi Inc.

Summary

In this episode, Ross Huartt interviews Kevin Dooley, CEO of Kahi Inc., about his journey in the restoration industry and the challenges he has faced. Kevin shares how he got started in the industry as a teenager working with his father, and how he eventually started his own restoration company. He also discusses the changing market dynamics in the industry and the need for technology to stay competitive. 

Kevin hints at a new strategy he has been working on to democratize the equipment rental business in the restoration industry. Kevin Dooley and Ross Huartt discuss the development of disruptive models in the property restoration industry. Kevin shares his experience in building technology solutions for the industry, starting with automating field service data collection. 

They also discuss the importance of data collection and transparency in the property restoration process, particularly in the context of sustainability and ESG initiatives. Kevin talks about his recent event where he flooded his own building to demonstrate the effectiveness of drying techniques and to facilitate knowledge sharing among industry professionals.

Takeaways

• The restoration industry can be challenging, as it involves working in high-stress, high-stakes environments and dealing with customers who have experienced property damage.
• The market dynamics in the restoration industry are changing, with the entry of new players and increased competition.
• To stay competitive, Kevin has invested in technology and developed a tech-minded approach to his business.
• The property restoration industry is ripe for disruption through the use of technology and automation.
• Data collection and transparency are crucial in the property restoration process, providing accurate information and improving outcomes.
• The convergence of exponential technologies, such as IoT and AI, is enabling new business models and opportunities in the industry.
• Sustainability and ESG initiatives are driving the need for more efficient and environmentally friendly restoration practices.
• Kevin's flooding event showcased the effectiveness of drying techniques and facilitated knowledge sharing among industry professionals.
  
  

Creators & Guests

Host

Ross Huartt

What is Lessons of a CEO?

Lessons of a CEO is more than just a podcast; it’s a movement to redefine the learning landscape for ambitious individuals. Our mission is to forge a vibrant community of lifelong learners, united by a thirst for knowledge and a passion for innovation. Through engaging discussions with leading executives, entrepreneurs, and thinkers, we dive deep into the heart of leadership, uncovering the strategies, challenges, and triumphs that define their journeys.

Ross Huartt: 00:07

And welcome back to lessons of the CEO with me, Ross Huartt. We're diving into episode 3 where we explore the intricacies of leadership in high stress, high stakes environments. And today, we're thrilled to welcome Kevin Dooley to the show. Kevin is not just any guest. He's a seasoned restoration contractor, large lost drying specialist with over 2 decades of experience in property restoration.

Ross Huartt: 00:31

And not only that, he's the CEO of Kaui Kahi, sorry, cofounder at Dry Source, and also cofounder at Restoration Co. And since 2001, Kevin has shaped his career with remarkable expertise and dedication. He holds prestigious titles that include master water and master cleaner certifications from the IICRC, and recently completed the I r I a w l s designation. That's a lot of acronyms. Yeah.

Ross Huartt: 01:04

And so Kevin's dedicated his career to elevating the standards of the restoration industry, and his business is primarily focused on supporting other restoration contractors by providing technical training, specialized labor resources, and disaster equipment rental services across North America and the Caribbean. So welcome, Kevin.

Kevin Dooley: 01:24

Thanks, buddy. That was a bit of

Ross Huartt: 01:26

a that

Kevin Dooley: 01:27

was a bit of a mouthful.

Ross Huartt: 01:28

Right. Well, it's it's so it's funny, man. The first time I ever heard one read back. And, you're like you're like, go ahead. I I don't feel that glamorous, the way it sounds.

Kevin Dooley: 01:37

Yeah. For sure.

Ross Huartt: 01:39

But, a lot of a lot of designations and acronyms there. I got myself tongue tied.

Kevin Dooley: 01:45

Yeah. It's all good.

Ross Huartt: 01:46

But Why don't you start off, by telling us a bit about yourself, your background, and and how you, call it, found your way into insurance restoration and and ultimately entrepreneurship?

Kevin Dooley: 02:00

Sure. Cool. Yeah. So I live in, in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, for anyone that's international as well. I, I entered into the restoration space, frankly, as a teenager.

Kevin Dooley: 02:13

So my dad, was a restoration contractor in the nineties. And so, on the weekends, sometimes in the evenings, definitely during summer, vacation away from school. I was, out on the trucks, hustling and working because that's the way I was raised. And, so, you know, I got, you know, from an early, teenager, you know, got my experience and my feet wet literally back then. And then,

Ross Huartt: 02:46

Just to confirm, do you your dad owned his own restoration firm?

Kevin Dooley: 02:50

Yeah. So he owned his own restoration a ServiceMaster franchise at one point that he bought in, in Okanagan in BC.

Ross Huartt: 02:58

Mhmm.

Kevin Dooley: 02:59

And, he opened he had 3 service master locations, I believe. And then, subsequently after that, he went independent for several years and then scaled that up to many more locations. And then, yeah, and then that's kind of the history. And then he he got out of being a contractor, I wanna say, in 99. I went to go work at Dry East.

Ross Huartt: 03:21

Mhmm.

Kevin Dooley: 03:22

And he worked with, the founder of Dry East Claude Blackburn, back in I think it was 98, 99 era. And he and Claude built, which, he they built DryZone, which is a flood, flood house training center, which ultimately be then became, what's now known as ASD applied structural drying to the IRS. Right.

Ross Huartt: 03:45

K. And I have to ask you, Kevin, because with my background in insurance and and setting up being as long as yours and having seen the call of the trials and tribulations that restoration contractors go through or any contractor, to be frank, any business oil, really. But there's just something I feel extra difficult about doing the work we do in insurance, restoring properties, attending emergencies, you know, in normal construction. Typically, there's people excited. This project's being funded.

Ross Huartt: 04:20

We're building something new. And in our our world, it's a little bit undertaker esque, isn't it? You show up and someone's had the worst day of their life. Yeah. And you're there to operate a business that, yes, restores it, but ultimately makes money from it, which can seem contradicting and create issues.

Ross Huartt: 04:40

Awesome. So did you did did you see any of that early on? None you didn't weren't exposed to any of that?

Kevin Dooley: 04:46

Well, back then, it was still kind of, as you kinda joke a little bit of the wild wild west. There wasn't a whole lot of structure in terms of, standard care and, you know, the consistency on how things were done. So, like, it was it was an interesting time back then. I I went through high school, obviously, doing that as I shared. And then when I went into college, I took business school and, you know, at least half resistance.

Kevin Dooley: 05:17

I used restoration as my theme for

Ross Huartt: 05:19

a lot

Kevin Dooley: 05:20

of my projects. And so, you know, I came out of college and had, like, business plans and marketing and all the stuff already kinda done. I'm like, well, I've done all this work. Might as well just keep you doing it. Yeah.

Kevin Dooley: 05:32

And so I ended up working with a local restoration company in Ottawa. Kinda got my feet wet a little bit more on the project management side because that was something I hadn't really done much of because I was just in the truck as a as a teenager as a shared and didn't have that kind of experience. And, at that juncture, that this is, 2,000 2, I think, 3, 2 yeah. 2,023 era. And at that point, my dad had, moved on, and I keep bringing him back in, so it'll kinda make sense.

Kevin Dooley: 06:03

At that point, he was, an independent instructor now teaching IRC classes. And so while I was working with, that restoration company in town locally, I was helping my dad, as, you know, part time, if you will, organizing classes across country in Canada and the US. So we would book, hotel conference rooms, typically. And we would I would help them sell and organize, getting students, AKA contractors, into these classes. And so, often, I would go out and join and, just help assist more on the hands on type classes, like the mold and and some other hands on classes that we would do.

Kevin Dooley: 06:44

And what I realized back in the early 2000 is there was, to your question now, there wasn't a lot of support for restoration contractors, both in equipment, and in the large loss and complex loss side of what we do. And, in talking to them, I learned that there was an unserved market in there. So back then, I ended up, kinda got forced upon me actually a little bit. And that's a story I can get into if you like. But the short version is is that I ended up, starting into my mom's garage.

Kevin Dooley: 07:21

Got a few pieces from Phoenix Equipment. I started a little, equipment rental service company out of my mom's garage, me and one other fella. And then over the course of claim after claim after claim, and then we we actually had some really nice support in Phoenix where, they gave me some quite favorable terms on some semi worth of semi truck worth of equipment.

Ross Huartt: 07:45

Nice.

Kevin Dooley: 07:45

And, we chased the hurricane that year, which was 2003 or 4. It was 2004.

Ross Huartt: 07:50

When you say chase the hurricane, where where did you chase that?

Kevin Dooley: 07:54

Yeah. So we went to the Panhandle of Florida. I think it was 2004. And, we had some contacts down there, and we dried a handful of hotels and apartment complexes.

Ross Huartt: 08:04

Nice.

Kevin Dooley: 08:04

And and did really well. And then we took those proceeds and just kinda reinvested and paid back Phoenix on the on the nice terms that they gave us and just kinda steamrolled. And

Ross Huartt: 08:13

so to some just to summarize quickly, though, Kevin.

Kevin Dooley: 08:15

So I

Ross Huartt: 08:15

think there's an there's an important lesson there that often goes goes missed, and and I resonate with it. You know, I started in a basement or a garage, you know, a little different. But taking that first step to be like, we're gonna do it with what we've got. Right? Have it find in the smallest space you possibly because I've seen your equipment warehouses now, and and it makes me chuckle the things that that was once a a a garage.

Ross Huartt: 08:40

And, and then I assume when that hurricane occurred again in the insurance business, catastrophes come and are often, you know, things that a lot of the companies in the in in this space want to work on because it produces a large volume of work. So did you just pack up with those favorable terms and then really head down there to find work?

Kevin Dooley: 09:03

So so, dude, it it was actually kind of is kind of a little bit crazy, thinking about hindsight now. So I was working in my mom's garage. And through doing these classes, we we I was a huge believer in Phoenix Restoration Equipment. And so at the time, Phoenix wasn't really a recognized brand in Canada back in, the late nineties, early 2000, and we were bringing them into the mix with showcasing their product in our schools that I was telling you about. And so, when I when I wanted to get into this bigger type work, know, I was chatting with them to see if we could, procure some equipment and arrange a deal.

Kevin Dooley: 09:44

And, honestly, they were they're they're I have these angel moments, and maybe we'll get into a couple of minutes of conversation. But Phoenix, they basically gave me an an unbelievable term. So they gave me a semi worth of equipment. I had no money. I had no credit.

Kevin Dooley: 10:00

I was a nobody, frankly. And, they they effectively gave me, 90 days of, here's the equipment. Go pay for 90 days, and then pay off the equipment in the subsequent 90 days, a third, a third, a third. So I've I basically had 6 months terms with them, and they were financing it for that time. And so we rolled the dice and took the equipment.

Kevin Dooley: 10:23

I had no work. I had no idea how I was gonna get the jobs. I had

Ross Huartt: 10:26

no knowledge. The value of that, by the way? Just for just for, like, so you you're you're starting off and you're just giving these favorable terms where at the end of the day, they get its debt over a period of time.

Kevin Dooley: 10:37

It is

Ross Huartt: 10:37

debt. What kind of risk was that?

Kevin Dooley: 10:39

It was it was probably in and around a half a 1000000 US.

Ross Huartt: 10:43

Oh, so it's that was no not like a $10,000 loan. That's not Yeah.

Kevin Dooley: 10:47

No. No.

Ross Huartt: 10:47

They they

Kevin Dooley: 10:49

they they bet on me and risked on me, and I had no idea how the hell we're gonna pay pay for it, frankly.

Ross Huartt: 10:55

But sometimes that's a that's a good fight. Right? They're like, oh, shit that worked. Now we gotta go do this.

Kevin Dooley: 11:02

Well, so serendipitous, if you wanna call that. So we we procure that equipment. And then around a month ish or so after the fact, that first hurricane

Ross Huartt: 11:13

hit. Right.

Kevin Dooley: 11:14

And so we we fully had to ship that gear down there, and we did our I have actually, I have pictures on my my phone. I can show you later. But we, we did a couple of hotels and apartment buildings, and we paid for all that equipment, during those few months we were down in Florida.

Ross Huartt: 11:28

That's so happens when so 2 young entrepreneurs have taken a punt how all businesses do. I mean, even mine NBC group, I didn't have a business plan. I just was like, I could do this.

Kevin Dooley: 11:39

Yep.

Ross Huartt: 11:39

And then you just go give it a go, don't you? And then it sort of evolves into something bigger than you.

Kevin Dooley: 11:45

Yeah. So

Ross Huartt: 11:46

where you so you've tested this theory. You've chased a catastrophe. So now what? Because, again, it's not it's not as if those

Kevin Dooley: 11:54

Right. But we came we came back from a few months of, down there, and we we're kinda obviously quite proud of ourselves because we did some we accomplished something. We paid off the debt. Thank god.

Ross Huartt: 12:05

And,

Kevin Dooley: 12:05

we didn't burn that bridge, which is great. And, and then we came back to reality of being back in Canada and figure out how we're gonna legitimize and create a business. And so so what ended up happening is in, late 04, 05, We created Dry Tech. At the time, the company was called Dry Tech, and, we decided to stick to the theme of supporting restoration contractors exclusively. And so in our local market in Ottawa, we started soliciting ourselves to local and surrounding local, like, Cornwall, kind of, like, within a couple hour radius of of Ottawa, subcontract mitigation and abatement services.

Kevin Dooley: 12:48

So we would do residential tear out, clean up, and whatnot as a sub to other restoration companies.

Ross Huartt: 12:53

Which is interesting because that's sort of a niche to a niche. That's right.

Kevin Dooley: 12:57

Yeah. It's a micro niche. Because to be honest, back 20 years ago, it didn't exist. There was one other company locally in Ottawa that was doing some of that. Actually, still we're actually buddies with him now.

Kevin Dooley: 13:08

We're still competitors, but friendly competitors. But there was no real other, supplier that existed like this really anywhere.

Ross Huartt: 13:15

Right.

Kevin Dooley: 13:16

And so it was yeah. It was a bit of an interesting business model, and I've stuck with that until this very day. Now that's changing, and perhaps we'll chat a little bit about that, but the market shifting, whatnot. But we stuck with that theme. And and over the course of, you know, from o 4, 5 up until 2015, I ran that company, and we scaled from my mom's garage to being arguably top 2, top 3 equipment rental company in North America.

Kevin Dooley: 13:41

We were handling marquee projects, all over the US and Canada and chasing every major disaster that you'd ever see on, you know, broadcast news and

Ross Huartt: 13:50

Yeah.

Kevin Dooley: 13:51

Whatnot. And, we kinda built a brand as being, one of the go tos to support restoration companies.

Ross Huartt: 13:56

But you know what it is, though? I I I I just love hearing that story because my favorite saying, and I say it all the time, is luck is opportunity meets preparedness. Right? And so Yeah. Taking that jump and then focusing on because restores are very good at drawing boundary lines and and combative lines with competitors.

Ross Huartt: 14:18

Yeah. So I guess flying under that allowed you give you access to, like, an international group that didn't see you as a competitor anymore. Right?

Kevin Dooley: 14:27

Exactly. Yeah. And and I'm kind of reliving this whole scenario again because I ended up, having a following up with my partners in in 2015, and that that battle ensued late 15 into early 2016 and, ultimately led to, me getting forced out of that company. And, there's a Hollywood blockbuster story within that whole experience of 6 or so months.

Ross Huartt: 14:52

Trust me. I've, I I feel as though that when I have you on the second time on this podcast Yeah. I wanna I'm gonna I'm gonna rewatch this, and we're gonna spend the whole session talking about that blockbuster movie because I have one of my own to share.

Kevin Dooley: 15:07

Yeah.

Ross Huartt: 15:08

I just don't think it I don't think we can give it the attention it deserves on on today's show, but I'm gonna I'm parking that for episode 2.

Kevin Dooley: 15:16

There's a lot to unpack in that one. Believe me. There's some there's some pretty wild stuff. But,

Ross Huartt: 15:21

so you found so you had a had a a parting of ways with business partners after this business scaled. And then where does Kevin find himself?

Kevin Dooley: 15:29

I went to, so I didn't have 2 nickels to rub together, when this all happened. So I couldn't I didn't have the financial wherewithal to start another company. So I went to go work for a friendly competitor in the US, and I was gonna build their North American operation. So they had a lot of large comp, industrial drying equipment, climate control equipment similar to what I had at my previous company. And they mostly focused in the non restoration category.

Kevin Dooley: 15:57

So, industrial coating, so like shipyards, where they're doing climate control for, like, military and things like that, pharma, new construction, things like that, where restoration is a very small component of their business. And, at that point, I had a pretty vast network, and, they've seen the value in in me coming on board and really scaling that up, and it was a great opportunity for everybody. So I joined their company, and 2 weeks later, they got acquired.

Ross Huartt: 16:23

I hear you. So who who acquired them?

Kevin Dooley: 16:26

It was a Greco. Right. So one of the one of the largest, power companies, in the planet. And so they, you know, didn't need my services at that point because, you know, it is what it is. And, subsequently, the owner of the company that I was about to work with, basically said, well, you know what?

Kevin Dooley: 16:48

You got a raw deal on what happened at your last company. We feel bad, and we wanna see success be successful. And that was my my second angel moment where, donor, wired, my wife, a 150,000 US on a handshake, sent me 2 semis of equipment, and said, go start your company again.

Ross Huartt: 17:12

This was just this gentleman that hired you to help him Yeah. Help build his. Well, I love hearing that as well because it goes back to, you know, business owners often aren't cash rich. A lot of their worth and equity is tied up in the business, which is, as you know, not as accessible often as as as you'd like. And so he obviously benefited from an exit, a sale ultimately, which is kind of, I guess, eventually on an entrepreneur's goal or dream at some point.

Ross Huartt: 17:42

But do you think that I love that, though, because then that kick started you. And you think you'd in a in a weird way, I think you'd return that favor down the line, right, if you could.

Kevin Dooley: 17:52

Oh, absolutely. I I definitely plan to. I actually did a little mini one of those recently with a hairstylist friend of mine. But I hope to do a couple more of those. But, yeah, I literally had nothing.

Kevin Dooley: 18:06

My wife at the time was a single mom. I just had my 3rd kid. I had no money, but I was my company was my investment vehicle, and I was all in on that. So I had no savings.

Ross Huartt: 18:16

He said That

Kevin Dooley: 18:18

was screwed. And so this guy, like, I don't know what possessed him to do that, but he you know, I wouldn't be sitting here right now if it wasn't for him. So, that was Joe Schroeder. And, yeah, he gave me that opportunity, and so I took it and ran. And, at the time, my previous company was still operating.

Kevin Dooley: 18:37

And, so when we launched, we put my previous company out of the business in the

Ross Huartt: 18:42

So is this so is this your new company was is Restoration Co?

Kevin Dooley: 18:47

Currently. Yep. The same one.

Ross Huartt: 18:49

Yeah. Well, again, I I draw lots of resonance to that because my my long time nemesis disappeared, and it took me longer than it took me longer than a few weeks to do it, but

Kevin Dooley: 18:59

Yeah. I

Ross Huartt: 18:59

did it. So how Yeah. So how did that you you opened up shop in Ottawa then?

Kevin Dooley: 19:04

So we opened up shop in Ottawa. I started working with another individual, a subcontractor, and there's a story to go there. It's it's kinda bitter and unfortunate that it ended the way it did, but it is what it is. And, as things kinda go But yeah. So it's been since February 2016 till today, we've been running that company, and we've arguably scaled up to be, again, one of the largest equipment rental companies within the space.

Kevin Dooley: 19:32

Mind you, we haven't made the same investments, and we've kind of backed off on the strategy a little bit because, the market's changing. You know? Yeah.

Ross Huartt: 19:43

Tell me a little bit about that I've got a good segue to go from go from here, but I wanna I wanna know a little bit about what your take on the market changes are, because I've started to see that as well within the within the insurance sector. And so I'm curious to hear your thoughts.

Kevin Dooley: 19:58

There's a there's a lot to unpack within that, but, in simple terms, the market's becoming more commoditized. There's a lot of new players coming to the mix, you know, cost consultants being 1, 3rd party adjusting firm, TPAs, legacy or how do I call them? I I typically call them legacy for my for me, anyways, legacy rental company. So, like, the large, commodity rental houses like a Sunbelt or United or a Herc, these these massive conglomerates that are entering the restoration space. And, that puts all kinds of pricing dynamics into the mix.

Kevin Dooley: 20:42

And then you have all these other independents that, you know, what I've seen 20 years ago are now entering the mix. So there's an abundance of supply, from my angle. Right. Coming in, which then with there's an abundance of supply, and, that usually drives down price.

Ross Huartt: 20:59

Yeah. And so what does that what does that look? How do you given that your business is based on rental of equipment and, obviously, expertise, what does that look like for that company? You know, I often look at from our perspective as a as a service firm appraising forensics or even adjusters with the introduction of new technologies and artificial intelligence and and tools. What you have to plan the landscape of the business because you won't need as there won't be as many people doing those jobs in the next 5 to 10 years.

Ross Huartt: 21:34

And so taking a longer look at how you can, I guess, risk manage your organization to succeed through that? Right?

Kevin Dooley: 21:42

Yeah. I was kind of I didn't realize it at the time, but I was given the nature of my business model and how we provide the service that I've been sharing with you. We we we delivered the service effectively at a deep discount, to the contractors we were working with. And but, frankly, we had the same overhead infrastructure. We paid our people competitively.

Kevin Dooley: 22:05

We sold the same vehicle, insurance, gas, etcetera, etcetera. And when I looked at all this, I'm like, okay. Well, how do we how do we have similar costs to our customers who deliver the product and the service at a much discounted price and still be a viable solution. And so it forced me to become the answer was, technology. So it forced me to become a tech minded operator.

Kevin Dooley: 22:28

So I didn't realize, the benefits benefits benefits of it until the last few years. But I started investing a lot into technology, frankly, 15 years ago, plus when, you know, cloud computing was basically in its infancy. Salesforce was, like, just coming out effectively, things like that. Right? And, anyway, I started investing a lot into tech, understanding how to apply tech to the space.

Kevin Dooley: 22:58

It really changed my thinking on, you know, markets in general and business models in general and all that good stuff. And when I started this company that I currently run and understanding some of the things I've shared with you, already, I I had part of my long term strategy, which is just in the starting of coming to fruition now, was that I was gonna democratize the equipment rental business.

Ross Huartt: 23:24

Mhmm.

Kevin Dooley: 23:25

And so we're we're right at this point right now, and the strategy is just about to come to light. It's been 10 plus years in making.

Ross Huartt: 23:35

So is this is this hot off the press then? Is this, like, first public announcement of this?

Kevin Dooley: 23:39

It's it's it's fairly public now. Or

Ross Huartt: 23:41

Oh, okay.

Kevin Dooley: 23:42

No. No. Sorry. Sorry. This is this is hot off the press.

Kevin Dooley: 23:44

Yes. I'm not gonna give the full strategy. It's not quite there, but it's just about there.

Ross Huartt: 23:50

So are you bringing the are you bringing the Uber Airbnb model to the restoration industry?

Kevin Dooley: 23:56

Perhaps.

Ross Huartt: 23:57

I love it. I I I've been I have my thought processes are on the same way for everything, which is how Yeah. EcoClain came about. But, that's exciting. I'm I'm I'm looking forward to seeing how you've developed a model to disrupt that.

Kevin Dooley: 24:12

Yeah. So it's in full full force now. We just secured, a bunch of, venture capital on the Kahi side, which we haven't even really talked about. That's my other company.

Ross Huartt: 24:22

Yeah.

Kevin Dooley: 24:22

And then, the government actually is pretty interested, from a grant perspective. We're actually we were just named the 5th fastest growing company in Ottawa. And if you look at national benchmarks, we're, like, top 30 in Canada, for growth. We last, 3 years, we've grown almost 600%. So, like, we're we're moving at a pretty pretty fast clip right now.

Kevin Dooley: 24:47

And, yeah. So with the fresh, capital, we're tripling up r and d and sales and marketing. And, over the next 12 months, there's gonna be some really interesting stuff coming out of Kahi and Woof. Dry source.

Ross Huartt: 25:00

Fill me in on so I, you know, my journey was similar to yours, traditional service firm. I say traditional servicing a niche. And then was just I say wrapped up, but you can't help but absorb all the news about technology and SaaS and and combine it for us with ESG. That's where I saw the opportunity to create a business that could be much larger and scalable without requiring the same kinds of concentrate. It's like for for NBC to grow, we you need more technical people to deliver more services, which ultimately there's, like,

Kevin Dooley: 25:39

a it's

Ross Huartt: 25:39

not as easy to find that organically.

Kevin Dooley: 25:42

Yeah. Absolutely.

Ross Huartt: 25:43

And so for me, I saw software as a way to solve a problem for customers, but also scale a business to be be larger without relying on hundreds of people.

Kevin Dooley: 25:54

Yeah. It's actually easier to create an exponential organization than it is a linear organization.

Ross Huartt: 26:00

Right.

Kevin Dooley: 26:01

For people to wrap their minds around, that's difficult, but, it it's true.

Ross Huartt: 26:06

So how did you make the jump? What was the you say you're selling restoration services to to restore us and support? And then how did how do you suddenly your sensor company is born? What was the what was the call it the angel moment?

Kevin Dooley: 26:21

On the on the technology side of the business, you mean?

Ross Huartt: 26:24

Yep.

Kevin Dooley: 26:25

Yeah. So

Ross Huartt: 26:25

Like, to separate it out.

Kevin Dooley: 26:28

Yeah. So I I doubled in this once my previous company. So, it started back then, frankly, we I built a team and a software that we were just about to launch and then it come to light based on the story I shared with you. But the the the premise of that was that we we automated all our field service data collection Mhmm. At the last company.

Kevin Dooley: 26:51

So time, materials, equipment, waste readings, all that. And, basically, we're leveraging our technicians to be our admins and operational data collectors. So we were my idea was always, to reduce costs is we collect a piece of data. It should be 1 and done, not go from the technician to a PM to an admin to a billing clerk, so on and so forth. And just it's increasing cost for no reason.

Kevin Dooley: 27:13

So we we had built a system called Navaha back then, which is, an ancient Sanskrit word for the word flow.

Ross Huartt: 27:20

Okay.

Kevin Dooley: 27:21

And, so that was my first foray into tech. And then when we with our current company, I always had a hankering and a strong desire, to to build technology. I just I was fascinated by it. I love the idea of exponential growth and and serving many and and being creative and whatnot. And so, with this current company, we had a problem of tracking our fleet.

Kevin Dooley: 27:43

We have a ton of equipment, as do as do other restoration companies in terms of, having challenges in tracking it. And, we kinda seen that as an opportunity, 1, to solve a problem for ourselves, but, 2, also turn it into a product that we could ultimately sell as an MVP, like, you know, initial product that we can penetrate the market with and get some sales traction and whatnot. And so that we started with asset tracking and just tracking equipment. And, it's the the strategies evolved now. And, really, we're an automated, field data collection system now.

Kevin Dooley: 28:20

Asset tracking is just a component of what we do. We want to build a whole host of analytics around the equipment and how the equipment behaves. When you look at the property restoration industry, specifically mitigation, when you're talking equipment, it's 1,000,000,000 and 1,000,000,000 of dollars, like, multiple tens of 1,000,000,000 to just equipment, revenue, or costs, depending on what side of the coin you're looking at, for insurance companies or contractors. And so all all parties have, a significant interest in how that equipment gets deployed and how it gets billed in the claims process. And so, you know, in of that, there's a whole host of problems, that need to be solved in order to provide predictability both for the carriers and the service providers, provide transparency for the same parties, and then ultimately, deliver best outcomes, and and and define what a best outcome is.

Kevin Dooley: 29:25

And so sorry?

Ross Huartt: 29:28

What? Go ahead.

Kevin Dooley: 29:29

I was just gonna say within that lies our our strategy and our thesis. So those 3, kind of components are what, we're striving to do in the property restoration space. And, I think if we can solve that, we'll have a pretty pretty big winning recipe.

Ross Huartt: 29:46

I think you're coming I think this is all coming together at the right time because on the backdrop of sustainability and, you know, Ecoclaim's near and dear to me for that. And one of the one of the areas of focus for Ecoclaim is very much dry in place. Yeah. And now that it's teaching dry in place is not new. I mean, there's there's it's it's it's I I would say it's well understood, but it's misunderstood, but but technically well documented and and scientifically documented.

Kevin Dooley: 30:14

It's actually not it's actually not in restoration. It's well documented in other industry, but not in property restoration.

Ross Huartt: 30:20

I was yeah. I wasn't referring to restoration from from my as a as a surveyor from my perspective. It's a scientific process.

Kevin Dooley: 30:26

Right.

Ross Huartt: 30:27

Right? That that follows calculations, and that's how it should always be like. Right?

Kevin Dooley: 30:32

But what's wild is there's literally 100 of 1,000,000,000 of dollars of work being done in water damage specifically. And the vast majority, like, high 90%, is not using any of that site. They think they are, but they're not.

Ross Huartt: 30:47

Bingo. So that's where that's where I was going with that. So from whether it's a cost consulting standpoint, which is why you see a prevalence of them because of that dollar figure, or from a sustainability standpoint to legal claims, Well, the problem you're solving is if we can dry a building rather than demo and reinstate, that not only saves cost for the insurer because it's more economical to do so, it reinstates the property, and more importantly, has a much lower greenhouse gas footprint than

Kevin Dooley: 31:16

Yep.

Ross Huartt: 31:17

The the resulting construction would. Now why why that's not more commonly used as a few fold? Lack of understanding and education on how what it is and how to apply it from both the insurer and restorer side. Yep. The big issue has been the the evidence of doing it.

Ross Huartt: 31:34

So because if it's not done correctly, it poses a future risk to the insurer that they will have to pay anyway. Exactly. And as you as you said before, documenting it. I mean, how many times have we seen a a a drying meter on a piece of drywall, which could be anywhere in the world? That doesn't prove it was there anyway.

Ross Huartt: 31:55

And so the problem you're solving is is is the ability to document that accurately live at site so that all parties and stakeholders can see what's going on and the result of it, which is, a, transparency, but, b, we try and place more rather than demo rebuild.

Kevin Dooley: 32:14

Yeah. And and and and taking it even a step further. So when you look at, well and so immutable data as well. Data that can be, manipulated by a technician or, you know, a manager or whatever above that technician once they receive the data on their scribbly paper or change the numbers in their app, you know, things like that. But even beyond that, you start to look at, you know, things that we've done where you can you can go down to the level of detail to the make and model of a piece of equipment that was deployed to a job.

Kevin Dooley: 32:48

We can now know exactly how that piece of equipment should be behaving within that chamber. Right. Based on environmental conditions outside, like physically outdoors, as well as what's, the conditions in the building. And then factoring in other things like, the class of loss as the HVAC system running and so on and so forth. And so it becomes a matter of fact, whereas right now, there's a lot of opinions floating around and a lot of bad opinions at that.

Kevin Dooley: 33:17

And so

Ross Huartt: 33:18

And it shouldn't be in my it's it's not an opinion. That's the point. Right? Not. Agreed.

Kevin Dooley: 33:24

And so, you know, as as as we move forward here, literally, in the next couple of months, we'll start pushing this technology into the market, advocating this message, and really starting to I like to call it bridge bridge building, where we can bring, all stakeholders together. So, you know, the consultants, the carriers, the service providers, and frankly, even the people that own the buildings, where we can create these bridges, where we can share data amongst one another that's trusted, provides transparency. It's a matter of fact. It's not opinion based, and it'll hopefully expedite claims. It'll, impact in the ESG initiatives in a positive way.

Kevin Dooley: 34:06

It'll reduce claim costs. Frankly, what's interesting, the restoration contractors will actually make more profit, which is important. Yeah. So that so that aligns them, from that perspective because they're obviously incentivized by making profit. So I think it's a winning recipe all around, and the people that own the buildings get their building back quicker.

Kevin Dooley: 34:26

So it's it's it's to me, it just makes sense in many ways.

Ross Huartt: 34:30

It should in theory make the project manager's life easier because his data collection and support for the the work he's doing on the drying side, if it's automatically collect collected and and shared among stakeholders that allow them to get paid quicker. The the biggest issue I see is that taking a I'm not gonna call it an issue because, again, I face the same challenge with with Ecoclaim is that you you've developed something that makes a lot of sense and is required and will solve a problem. Yeah. However, as you know, getting, getting any industry to change for the better, especially construction and especially on the insurance side of that. Yeah.

Ross Huartt: 35:11

That's the challenge.

Kevin Dooley: 35:12

Yeah. They're slow moving.

Ross Huartt: 35:14

Right.

Kevin Dooley: 35:14

But I think it's I think I think we're I think we're at that point of the hockey stick where it starts to curve up. And I think I think we're, you know, in the next, I don't know, couple few years anyways, we'll be looking back and be like, holy, crow. This this moved quite quickly.

Ross Huartt: 35:34

Yes.

Kevin Dooley: 35:35

So but but, traditionally, yes, it moves slow. The cost of deploying IoT technology and and other technology and that's the thing actually is we're just at this point now where these different exponential technologies are starting to converge. And it's in and it's in the convergence where these new business models and these new opportunities come. And we're just starting to get that capability now. Yeah.

Kevin Dooley: 36:00

And, I used to say I was a little bit early in my estimations, but I I always used to say that 5 g was the benchmark. 5 g connectivity.

Ross Huartt: 36:12

Yep.

Kevin Dooley: 36:13

And and and that that was the measuring stick that I used for many, many years. That would would be the the the tipping point where we would start to see this convergence of multiple technologies coming together. And I think it's a little bit slow because 5 g has now been out for, what, a couple of years maybe. But I think, you know, we're we're right there. And the way AI is moving now, it's kinda nutty.

Kevin Dooley: 36:36

But,

Ross Huartt: 36:37

I agree. You know that, again, EcoGreens business model, just like yours, is a convergence of technologies that we would we would collaborate with with yourselves, collect that data that that you're collecting to filter it through our sustainability lens to produce the required reporting on that side. And so, again, we're not we're not in the market to create a drying system that tracks that that tracks a loss because that is already a market. So how do you converge those technologies to to collect data for multiple different reasons, not just on the dry?

Kevin Dooley: 37:11

Yep. And that's something too that's I think, what we'll be able to help is that we we kinda knew that. We wanted to see be, like, very focused on, automating field data collection, And we knew that we couldn't be vanilla ice cream to everybody, so we we weren't gonna be able to be able to do everything, at least do everything well. So we focused on the few things that I think we do exceptionally well, and, and we built the platform in such a way where we're API first. So meaning that our our data is, the way we collect our data is also very accessible to integration partners perhaps such as yourselves or users that would have a material interest in it and, being able to connect and share that data so then we can continue to drive these other processes and outcomes.

Ross Huartt: 37:59

Absolutely. And that That's

Kevin Dooley: 38:00

a key point.

Ross Huartt: 38:02

And that's what you can show with data is is, outcomes to clients, which is what they want ultimately. Yeah. So one thing I wanted to touch on and, again, I know we could talk forever, but as we start to run up to the end, tell me about the big flood because hot topic, we're on the subject of drying a building. And you recently, on purpose, flooded your own building.

Kevin Dooley: 38:24

Right. And

Ross Huartt: 38:24

I want I don't wanna hear a how you decided to do that, how it went, and when's the next one.

Kevin Dooley: 38:32

That's funny. So in our in our in our training side of our business, we were teaching a class in Vancouver last, October. And, one of the students said to me, he's like, you know, it's really cool that you, like, allow us to play with the machines and whatnot because no other classes do that. But if you really wanna make it, like, extra cool, you should just flood the place. I'm like, it took me about, like, 5 seconds.

Kevin Dooley: 38:55

I'm like, you know what? We're gonna do it.

Ross Huartt: 38:57

That's awesome. I know that.

Kevin Dooley: 38:58

Yeah. Yeah. We'll do it. And then, my partner, dared me because I was like, after I committed all, like, I don't know if I should do this because we don't own a building. We rent.

Ross Huartt: 39:08

Right. Yeah. So like, I'll take that back. You flooded your TIs. Yeah.

Ross Huartt: 39:14

Yeah. Yeah.

Kevin Dooley: 39:15

And we so so, anyway, I, I went down this process of trying to convince the ISRC, and and, it took a bit of effort, and we finally pushed it through. And then by the time I got approval, I had 8 weeks to do it. And, I before I even had approval, I already committed to doing it on social social media. I know. That's the this is

Ross Huartt: 39:34

the best way to do it all the time. I just There was there was some strategy involved in there, we'll say.

Kevin Dooley: 39:40

And then, so, anyways, I got approval. I had 8 weeks to put this thing on. So, long story short, we dumped 12,000 gallons of water into my Toronto office. I didn't, I didn't quite have approval to do it, but I did it anyways. I was confident in our ability.

Kevin Dooley: 39:56

So that's that that means something, I think.

Ross Huartt: 39:58

Yeah. But, well, they can't prove it was wet now. So what's the problem? Well, it had to happen.

Kevin Dooley: 40:03

My my landlord ended up actually being quite cool about it after the fact, so it was alright. But in my nature and how I, operate, it went from doing a technical training program where we flood my building and teach people how to drive the building to how do we really how do we really, like, make this something different that's special that can really kind of level up and maybe perhaps start a movement? And so all of that kind of transpired into bringing together a roster of, 13 or 14 different individuals, 2 of which were part of your team, and they did an exceptional job. But we brought in, different subject matter experts on t and m building, the engineering and appraisal side, sales and marketing, the technical components, with some of the e three algorithms, some of the stuff we're doing, and so on and so forth. And, so we had a You

Ross Huartt: 40:57

turned it into a conference, essentially, a mini conference. Right?

Kevin Dooley: 40:59

It was it was a it was a it was an event. Yeah. We had it was so the whole thing lasted 6 days. We did 2 days pre ISRC commercial drying specialist class. So to the first front loaded 2 days, we flooded the building on a Sunday.

Kevin Dooley: 41:14

And then Monday Tuesday, we ran the class from 7:30 in the morning till 10 PM at night. We put a 45 100 square foot tent in my parking lot that we climate controlled. And, we had a we we spent a an insane amount of money on AV. And, we between students, sponsors, and support staff, we had a 170 people in the tent. And we broadcasted the the mitigation effort that my team predominantly handled in the building.

Kevin Dooley: 41:42

We broadcast it through our cameras to the tent on the big screen, and, and, the students got to participate a little bit. And, we just provided an immense amount of, of training and and

Ross Huartt: 41:54

Was that first of its kind?

Kevin Dooley: 41:55

First ever. Yeah.

Ross Huartt: 41:57

Yeah. Because it seemed to again, that's what I like about these things. They seem like obvious things to do once they're done. Because I'm like, why would why would you not, why would you not flood a building and prove you could dry it? Like, in general, you'd burn the burn they do burning they do fires to see how things burn.

Ross Huartt: 42:15

Right? And, but I only heard good things from our team. And I know Christian Christensen, our VP of the insurance services, is the only person ever to wear a tie to a contractor event, so I'm sure you'll be be remembered for that.

Kevin Dooley: 42:30

Yeah. He you know what? They him and Matt both did a fantastic job. They honestly, I gotta just take a moment just to to give credit to you and your team because they walked into, the lion's den.

Ross Huartt: 42:44

Yeah.

Kevin Dooley: 42:44

Because because because what those what your team does in that at least in that sphere of your business, often is contentious and can be adversarial. I think your your guys handled it with grace. They were empathetic. They were knowledgeable. They were willing to take some some difficult questions and and did and just did a really great job.

Kevin Dooley: 43:09

And I think at the end, everyone was like, you know what? I would actually like to work with those guys.

Ross Huartt: 43:13

Well, you know, that's that's what it's about. You know? You you you've known me for, like, 10 years now and

Kevin Dooley: 43:18

Yep.

Ross Huartt: 43:19

I tried you know, every project's different, and you don't influence everyone. But, you know, I try to instill in our our team that we're there to help facilitate, get it done, not put up barriers and roadblocks and cut invoices. It's it's about working together to document it, support it so that everyone ultimately gets paid in the building, gets restored as quick as possible. And I think that often gets lost sometimes because there's egos involved and Yep. And And and, like,

Kevin Dooley: 43:46

you know what? You you know, your got you guys have have likely failed. I'm sure have failed many many claims where you perhaps will say been in the wrong for whatever that means wrong as have many, many, many contractors, myself included. And so, like, you know, all we can do is get better. What it did, though, is it started a conversation.

Kevin Dooley: 44:06

And and I think that was pretty cool. And, yeah, it was it was it was it was neat. And so, to your question, we're gonna be doing another one in November. So we're gonna reflood the building again in, in November in Toronto. We'll do it there again.

Kevin Dooley: 44:23

And then eventually, we'll we'll perhaps do a roadshow. A few people have offered up their buildings now.

Ross Huartt: 44:27

Oh, really?

Kevin Dooley: 44:28

Yeah. Yeah.

Ross Huartt: 44:28

Now that is that is cool. You get it. I feel like there's a business in itself there somehow. You you went from dry you went from drier to now just flutter.

Kevin Dooley: 44:37

Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And that it's it's it's it was an obscene amount of effort. I, I I I kind of run parallels to, going down to a disaster zone because we had to put this thing on in 8 weeks and organize all these vendors and food.

Kevin Dooley: 44:53

Like, the food was was top shelf. Like, we so, basically, I wanted to create an experience that if I was actually the the attendee, what's the standard that I would want in terms of everything down to the fine details. And because of that, it put a lot of pressure on myself and the team to deliver a high quality thing. I think we succeeded. We definitely

Ross Huartt: 45:11

do there from from across North America.

Kevin Dooley: 45:14

Right? We we actually could have sold the whole thing out to Americans. I actually had to cut US because they were quick to, jump on it. And, I ran the risk of holding about well, at the time, we had 100% Americans registered. I had to cut them off in order to allow some Canadians to get into the room.

Kevin Dooley: 45:34

So at the end of the day, it worked out perfectly. We had, in the zone of 50 50 Canadians to Americans in terms of attendees. There were a 115 actual students. The rest were, vendors and and support staff. And, yeah, it was it was pretty cool.

Kevin Dooley: 45:52

Yeah. From all from from California to Florida and everywhere in between, from the West Coast of Canada to the East Coast of Canada. So there was a really great mix.

Ross Huartt: 45:59

That was cool. Well, I'll definitely, I'll definitely be attending the next one. And if you do that roadshow, I'm all about going somewhere warm where you can golf as well as dry buildings. So I, I will be a special guest there as well.

Kevin Dooley: 46:12

We'll we'll chat offline. I got some ideas around that too.

Ross Huartt: 46:15

Perfect. Perfect. And, well, until we have you again to discuss our blockbuster stories, that was episode 3 of lessons of a CEO. Until next time. Thank you.

Kevin Dooley: 46:26

Thanks, buddy.