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Rethink Culture is the podcast that shines the spotlight on the leaders who are rethinking workplace culture. Virtually all of the business leaders who make headlines today do so because of their company performance. Yet, the people and the culture of a company is at least as important as its performance. It's time that we shine the spotlight on the leaders who are rethinking workplace culture and are putting people and culture at the forefront.
00:00:07:13 - 00:00:36:03
Andreas
Good morning, good afternoon and good evening. Welcome to another episode of Rethink Culture, the podcast that shines a spotlight on business leaders that are building businesses people love to work for. My name is Andreas Constantinou, and I see myself as a micromanager turned servant leader who developed a passion for workplace culture. My latest project is the Cultural Health Check, which is an online service that lets you audit your culture with data.
00:00:36:05 - 00:01:08:20
Andreas
And today I have the pleasure of welcoming lisa wise. And lisa is a founder of many things. So she's the owner and founder of Nest DC, who's a family of real estate management companies that oversees $2 billion in property in Washington, D.C. She also launched birdSEED, which is a nonprofit providing around 10 to 15 k USD in downpayment grants to minority homeowners and marginalized communities that she cares a lot for.
00:01:08:22 - 00:01:39:23
Andreas
She's an entrepreneur, activist, writer, and all around bird lady, as she likes to say, she cares a lot about social justice, which we'll get to talk a lot about. And she lives in Washington, DC with her wife and their 11 year old son, Beckett. And when not change making, you can find lisa surrounded by pets and hiking around DC's famous Rock Creek Park.
00:01:40:01 - 00:01:43:09
Andreas
So very welcome to Rethink Culture, lisa.
00:01:43:20 - 00:01:45:18
lisa
Thank you. Andreas. It's great to be here.
00:01:47:01 - 00:02:12:05
Andreas
So, I'm glad we made this happen because we've tried to get together for a while. Where do we start? And you told me the company that takes most of your energy these days is Nest. So tell us a little bit about Nest and what cause is it driving and what it means for you.
00:02:12:05 - 00:02:44:16
lisa
Yeah. Oh, that's a great question. It's a good opener. Nest DC is a residential property management company. Which in the US is a company that focuses on, managing property on behalf of owners. We focus on residential homes, whether that is an apartment unit in a building or whether that is a single family home. And our focus is on not only caring for the property, but caring for our residents, our clients and the community that those properties are located in.
00:02:44:18 - 00:03:12:04
lisa
Our focus has always been on creating a high quality of living in homes people feel happy to live in and call home. And we've taken a hospitality based, values based approach to managing real estate that is antithetical to the way the industry has traditionally operated in our environment. Meaning, a lot of folks look at and talk about residential property management as a series or a number of doors.
00:03:12:06 - 00:03:48:21
lisa
They refer to residents as tenants. They talk about rent rolls. They talk about ticketing. We talk about caring for people in their homes. The honor and privilege of being able to do so, we think is a high calling. And for that reason, we've always pursued and tackled the work as one that we take very seriously and wanting to maintain and care for properties in a way that is consistent with how anybody can and should want to live, which is dignified, justified, homes that they're proud to call their own.
00:03:50:04 - 00:04:02:13
Andreas
And does it have a social cause? Is it for a particular kind of part of the population and minorities, for example? Or is, like what's the angle? What is the positioning for Nest?
00:04:02:13 - 00:04:24:08
lisa
The angle's fairly straightforward. We want high quality property that people want to call home. So, fair housing rules specifically do not allow us to carve out any portfolio for specific home owners or, I'm sorry, home dwellers. Our portfolio and rentals are available to anyone who qualifies. And we believe in that. Fair housing.
00:04:24:10 - 00:04:49:14
lisa
But our properties are really set apart because they're well-presented, they're beautiful. They're designed well, they're well maintained. There are places you can picture yourself living in for a long time. We're very particular about how we wanted to curate a portfolio of properties that set us apart from competitors who are not as interested in maintaining and caring for those properties to the highest possible standard.
00:04:49:16 - 00:05:23:21
lisa
Our clients, of which we have many, many own one property or maybe a handful of properties. This is what we might call an accidental landlord. Folks that had a unit that perhaps they lived in for a period of time and then moved on, decided to keep that property as an investment, and then they hand those keys over to us to manage them for them in a turnkey nature, meaning we're from taking the keys from them the day that they move out to marketing, leasing, occupying, maintaining and caring for the resident and the property over the course of its life as a rental.
00:05:23:23 - 00:05:55:18
lisa
We want to make sure that that's an exclusive proposition for our residents and that they're looking at our portfolio as the best in the business. That has been our signature as a company. But in addition to having the highest quality portfolio and wanting to have property that's very well maintained and stylish and all the things that people want in property we understand that we're part of a community that has hosted and supported our company in thriving, and it's our responsibility to give back to and care for the community that has cared for us.
00:05:55:18 - 00:06:09:14
lisa
So there is a lot of community engagement that we do, from picking up trash in neighborhoods, to painting buildings for non-profits to hosting fundraisers for organizations that are aligned with our value system.
00:06:09:16 - 00:06:30:21
lisa
Personally, as the founder and owner, I serve on a lot of community boards in a volunteer capacity, offering my leadership skills and experience in real estate and as an entrepreneur, and making sure that we're contributing back. That's a huge part of our focus is being justice oriented. And what does justice oriented and property management have in common
00:06:30:23 - 00:06:50:23
lisa
It means that we want to ensure that we're not only creating great living experiences, but great jobs, that we're contributing to our local economy, that we procure and spend locally. I know that Gina Schaefer is the one, the woman that tied us together in this conversation. Gina is the owner of a number of Ace Hardware stores in the region.
00:06:50:23 - 00:07:13:14
lisa
We've become very close friends. And there's a point at which we decided that our spending as a company, which is in the millions of dollars every year, we had a choice about where we were spending those dollars. And a lot of obviously construction materials and maintenance supplies are part of our procurement. We decided to move that spend from box stores to our local economy.
00:07:13:14 - 00:07:34:07
lisa
And we know that the way that we function, operate and contribute to community is a unique opportunity. And we intend to make sure that we take advantage of that, keep dollars in the city, keep dollars in the region, and create great jobs for people and great jobs for us means paying benefits. It means offering long and short term disability.
00:07:34:07 - 00:07:58:15
lisa
It means making sure people have an appropriate amount of time off for rest and relaxation, but not feeling that they have to cover the cost of that time off. We offer robust compensation and training opportunities. We want people to come and stay with us. And if and when they need to leave, we want them to leave more skilled, more qualified and able to pursue a career where they feel that they've leveled up and have greater skills as a result of being with our company.
00:08:00:04 - 00:08:21:05
Andreas
And you say you take good care of the people that are taking care of your clients. What does that mean in practice? And you talk a lot about justice principles. Do you apply them also at your culture at work? Do they also translate there?
00:08:21:05 - 00:08:42:08
lisa
Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, justice starts in the home office. I wrote a book about justice called Self Elected: How to Put Justice Over Profit and Soar in Business. I believe a justice mindset and a set of practices as a company is what's actually going to lead to greater profitability. But how we measure profitability isn't always in dollars and cents.
00:08:42:08 - 00:09:05:01
lisa
And obviously we all want to be financially sustainable and profitable as companies. And that is measured in currency, correct? But the number of good jobs that we're creating, the way in which we're supporting and connecting with our team members so that they are feeling rewarded, challenged and cared for in that work environment is one that we honor.
00:09:05:03 - 00:09:27:15
lisa
The servant leadership model is one that we live by, and it's very heavily featured in the book where I talk about how do we design our workplace to put people first and profit second. It actually leads to the other. Empowering, supporting, nurturing and resourcing our talent is the fast track to making sure that we can do the same for our clients.
00:09:27:17 - 00:09:43:09
lisa
We want to create great living experiences for our residents. We want our clients to experience profitability with their rentals. And all of that starts with us caring the most for the residents and for the staff that we have who cares for them.
00:09:44:19 - 00:09:57:00
Andreas
And you mentioned servant leadership. So does it mean to have the interest of the people at heart? Does it mean to serve the people? Like, give us more color in what servant leadership means.
00:09:57:15 - 00:10:21:20
lisa
Yeah. For me, I work for the team, so I don't sit down at the end of the day and think, what are they there to do for me? My value system allows me to ask every day, what am I doing for them to be successful? And that oftentimes means I put my own needs and priorities last in favor of putting theirs first, because I know the company is designed for success.
00:10:21:22 - 00:10:42:17
lisa
If I trust that model, then servant leadership is the engine that will help us get where we need to be. My ego can be engaged in and the number one priority in the company design. We need to make sure that the folks that are doing the work that we've promised to deliver feel supported, encouraged, and engaged in that brand's promise.
00:10:42:23 - 00:11:09:10
lisa
If they're feeling like they're reporting up and that their value is diminished or not amplified in the company, then I'm not doing myself a good service there. So being there to support their good work is the first priority. And we study and explore at as many crossroads as possible how we can refine and redesign what we're doing in the interest of the team members.
00:11:09:12 - 00:11:26:04
lisa
And sometimes that can mean setting aside things that we might like to do, but know that it will interfere with what's best for the team. And a good example of this, Andreas, is taking the time over the course of this last year to redesign our service model to better fit the needs of the team members delivering those services.
00:11:26:09 - 00:11:58:08
lisa
It was a huge feat, to restructure the way that we're interfacing with and serving our client and resident base. And doing so we knew was in the best interest of the staff so that they felt more in control of the service that they were delivering. But not only did we redesign that service model, we complemented it with tools and technology that would help them do their best work as humans and lean back on the technology that helps them do things that we really don't need them to get bogged down in the details around when a lease is renewed.
00:11:58:10 - 00:12:21:19
lisa
We have technology that can automate those things so that when there are real time, very human things happening in our work environment, they're freed up to engage in and lean into that human experience. If we don't treat them as humans, then how then are we allowing ourselves to ask them for the same? So it's one of the investments we consistently want to make and have to revisit constantly.
00:12:22:01 - 00:12:59:07
lisa
Being a servant leader isn't a checkmark activity. It's a three dimensional, consistent way of operating. And you will stray from that. You will make mistakes. You will have team members that don't buy into that model who are not able to understand or recognize the promise of servant leadership, and that's okay. Over time, you have to continue to refine and be nimble and adjust based on what's going on in the climate and the environment. And I think we've been able to do that well. I think we'll continue to see different opportunities to eclipse things that have created barriers for us and continue to do our work and do it well.
00:13:01:07 - 00:13:51:01
Andreas
You mentioned people before profit, and I really believe in the same principle. At the same time, there have been cases, for example, when my company hasn't done as well and we had to cut down on, like, benefits or on training or, you know, not so much the swag or the extras, but, you know, stuff that people needed to be happy at work. And of course, we did that with a heavy heart. Have you had such a dilemma in your career? And are you able to, you know, navigate this paradigm always on the people side?
00:13:52:18 - 00:14:15:18
lisa
That's a great question and relevant right now, Andreas. This has been a challenging four years for anyone who owns and runs a small business. The organization of our company in terms of profitability was consistent for a long time. We could count on growth month over month. We understood what the economic model was for the business that we were offering.
00:14:15:18 - 00:14:55:17
lisa
We knew where we had levers to pull to increase profitability or to manage external threats, until suddenly things were escalating to the point of us not being in control of the external threats. So obviously, the pandemic was number one, but the cascading impact of the things that unfolded after that, from inflation to gas prices to quiet quitting to labor shortages, to, you know, all the same things that complicated people's work environment plus regulatory complexity for us. It's hard managing property in a changing dynamic legal environment that can and will disrupt the way that we do business.
00:14:55:22 - 00:15:17:10
lisa
We have to be nimble and adjust. But there are times when it's hard to be nimble and adjust because we're just too big to move that quickly and be as responsive as we want to. Profit has been harder for us. The traditional dollar profit has been harder for us, because the way that our models designed has not been able to keep pace with the increasing expenses.
00:15:17:12 - 00:15:47:02
lisa
And we're at a point now where we have to retool and reimagine how it is that we've organized the work for greater profitability. But the promise that I always make is that I don't want to reduce things like benefits and salary, the things that we've had to pump the brakes on are those generous benefits... I'm sorry, the generous profit sharing that we've always loved doing, because the profit margins just have not been available to us in the same way.
00:15:47:04 - 00:16:05:19
lisa
And it's that promise that kind of breaks my heart, right? With a heavy heart, we're not getting to the profitability that I want to share back with a team that's helping us get there. So then it's my responsibility to say, how do I engage in the company in a way that is strategic, that is intentional to get us to the profitability.
00:16:05:19 - 00:16:29:05
lisa
What needs to be true around the company in terms of our operations that allow us to get back to abundance, and we're in that process now, as I said, as sort of pre-show, we sold two companies, heading into this year, which allowed us a really unique opportunity to circle our wagons and say, what is our legacy brand, which is Nest DC.
00:16:29:06 - 00:17:03:10
lisa
We've been in business for 15 plus years. We managed $2 billion in residential real estate. We have a very strong, very well-liked brand with a lot of fans said nobody ever in property management. We have, well, we have an email list of 11,000 people and email open rates in the 50 plus range. These are things that are uncommon, that I'm really proud of, that we have to work with as we reimagine what profitability looks like for the company with a heavy focus on that legacy core product, which is caring for people in their residential homes.
00:17:03:12 - 00:17:25:02
lisa
And there are new ways of operating that allow for different kinds of efficiencies that weren't available to us when we started. So we've spent this year redesigning our baseline corporate operations so that we're a lot more sophisticated in how we're delivering our internal work models. And delivering a service back to our ownership and our client and our residents.
00:17:25:02 - 00:17:43:07
lisa
So, you know, we will start to see the fruits of that labor. There's a long tail, right? What you're doing today, you may not see the fruits of that labor until a year or two down the line, but we're aware of the need for and the impact of those investments today, so we have a brighter tomorrow and the next day and the next day.
00:17:43:09 - 00:18:08:10
lisa
And that comes down to changing our information management systems, integrating new technologies, automations, workflows, redesigning the way that we manage human resources, thinking about our marketing models and where we're going to get the most bang for the buck. Economizing where we can, investing where we should has been our core and key focus. So we're proud of the work that we've done.
00:18:08:14 - 00:18:40:00
lisa
We understand there's still more to do. But there's a commitment to an optimism around what lies ahead [cuts out] work that we've invested in rebuilding the company, for this particular moment in time, from a technology and business environment perspective and adding and pouring in the secret sauce that only Nest DC has really had, particularly in the property management environment, and then moving forward as a company to continue to rise above a baseline standard of management and really set a new bar for what management looks like.
00:18:42:01 - 00:19:24:03
Andreas
So you mentioned profit sharing, which is typically part of how you instill ownership or a sense of ownership into employees. And I was chatting with someone whose business is suffering and so they are trying to figure out how to have employees sympathize or empathize with the business. In other words, understand what it means to be the owner of the business. And so my question to you is, at Nest, how do you help
00:19:24:03 - 00:19:35:07
Andreas
or encourage employees to feel more like owners of the business, as if they share the problems of their business, not just that their livelihood depends on the business?
00:19:37:09 - 00:19:59:21
lisa
I'll say this. It's not their responsibility to empathize with me. At the end of the day, I own the company and they don't. And that is just the stark reality of the situation. It's my responsibility to give them the opportunities to feel and be rewarded by the fruits of their labor. And it's my responsibility to build the company that has a brand promise that they actually believe in and want to commit to.
00:19:59:23 - 00:20:22:01
lisa
And with that, they can either share optimism or they can pursue with pessimism. And then you sort people out based on that value and mindset. They understand it's everybody's to participate in the success of the company. But it is not their responsibility to drive the entire company toward an abundant future. They play a role in.
00:20:22:01 - 00:20:43:16
lisa
They need to understand what that role is. They need to understand and be rewarded for success. And rewards aren't always monetary. Rewards are about calling out and saying thank you for that work. This is what that work did to contribute to a stronger company. It's about reminding them where their efforts have impact and where certain efforts don't, and saying you don't need to do that anymore.
00:20:43:16 - 00:21:00:02
lisa
It's not actually, the juice isn't worth the squeeze on that activity. We're going to sunset that, it's about coming in and saying, we can help you be successful, not just depend on you understanding what success is. It needs to be collaborative or you're never going to get to that success model. And it's a hard one, right?
00:21:00:02 - 00:21:27:04
lisa
It is a lonely place for the owners, particularly when things are hard, when the team members do not have that empathy or compassion for the position that you're in. And that is just, that's how the cookie crumbles for leadership. It is my unique role as the owner, founder of the company to carry the burden of its future success and to continue to try and design it in such a way that people feel good about playing a role in that.
00:21:27:06 - 00:21:49:01
lisa
Obviously, one of the levers that I can pull is profit sharing. They get, handily that and easily that when we are more profitable, we have a tradition of and track record in sharing back those profits. So, we commit to our promise as a leadership team and as an owner. I commit to that promise.
00:21:49:03 - 00:22:16:02
lisa
If they do their part, I will do mine. And that is more or less it's transactional. So when we're successful you are successful. The longer the period goes between being successful and unsuccessful, the harder it is for them to buy into that. So there's an urgency around saying like, what we're doing is working, which means you have to pause and say, this is working and may not be working, and relate to immediate fruits from that labor.
00:22:16:03 - 00:22:37:05
lisa
But we're laying the groundwork for what these things will do to help us get to that profitability model. You can't do that in isolation. You need to share out with them. Hey, this is what the company is doing to rebuild in a way that allows us to get to that point of profit sharing. I've given over $1 million away in profits to our team members over the course of the company, and I would proudly double that.
00:22:37:07 - 00:23:04:09
lisa
And I want to double that. And I know to my toes that people believe it because it's true. I'm only interested in success if it's shared, full stop. So my goal is to be as generous as possible because they've been generous with their talent and that's relational. So, but I also have to accept the reality that these are jobs for people.
00:23:04:10 - 00:23:19:02
lisa
They want secure, stable, robust jobs that create opportunity for them and help them pay their bills and live the lives that they want to live. Some people will understand the proposition here, and other people won't. And that has to be okay as well.
00:23:22:10 - 00:23:37:06
Andreas
What are some of your lessons you've taken away as a leader over the years that have shaped you? Some of the aha moments perhaps, or some of the ways you have changed yourself as a leader.
00:23:38:19 - 00:24:11:06
lisa
I'm a better listener now. I lead with more curiosity. I am better at navigating the harder times. And I think receiving feedback, around what hasn't gone well and just accepting that things haven't gone well and that I have made mistakes, and that we learn from them. I've had to understand and accept that not everybody is going to be as enthusiastic about what we're doing as I am, and that that's okay.
00:24:11:08 - 00:24:40:23
lisa
You know, I don't have a formal business degree or a formal business education. I have a film degree, and I learned pretty much everything I know about business reading business magazines and then making mistakes. I think there's a point at which I could have very much benefited from having someone with a more formal education in business, because there were a lot of things that I could and should have been doing that just were not known to me and didn't have the time to pause and say, what's my customer acquisition costs?
00:24:41:01 - 00:24:57:22
lisa
How are we looking at this from a data perspective? And frankly, I can look back and wish I had done that. Or I can look back and say I was lucky I didn't need to. We did experience that month over month growth, that year over year growth. The trajectory was consistent. We were thrilled with what we were doing.
00:24:57:22 - 00:25:18:08
lisa
We were being successful in the business model. Until again, things started to change and shift. The pandemic presented problems that were a lot more complex. If I were going to go back and make some changes, it likely would be in that formal, kind of business inputs that we lacked. But I don't have regrets, if that makes sense.
00:25:19:17 - 00:26:21:11
Andreas
Absolutely makes sense. Yeah. I don't believe in regrets. I believe we can avoid regrets by being proactive now, but every mistake is a learning opportunity, like Garry Ridge of WD-40 says or learning moment, he says. And I totally empathize with what you said, making mistakes throughout your entrepreneurial career. It's exactly what I did. And I regret not having a mentor in the early years of my entrepreneurial life. One thing we share in common is I found great solace and structure in EOS, Entrepreneurial Organization System, which, you know, for me was a transition point in my business. Is there any kind of such actionable takeaway or any tools that you rely on today for running your business that you believe others can learn from?
00:26:22:19 - 00:26:48:09
lisa
I'm glad you brought up EOS, Entrepreneurial Organizational System, which has been a really effective tool for us. And there's still work to do on how we've integrated and adopted that tool across the operations of the entire company. We use it more so at the leadership level. And we're in the process now, given the restructuring that we've done of making sure it's rolled out across all departments within the company.
00:26:48:11 - 00:27:08:00
lisa
But for me, the most important thing about EOS is the simplicity of the model. It's not requiring page upon page upon page in terms of strategic planning that may or may not be tracked or followed. The simplicity is in the discipline. You agree to what you are going to deliver over a quarter, and then you are held accountable to those deliverables.
00:27:08:02 - 00:27:29:13
lisa
The idea that we can sit down with a very talented leadership team that I have, that we agree collectively on what we're contributing to the company and why those are the right contributions through our rocks, which is the terminology used in that book. For me, the relief in knowing that I can essentially budget for those activities is outstanding.
00:27:29:15 - 00:27:48:20
lisa
I know that when we agree that we'll make a banking transition and that the transition will be unfolding on a certain timeline, that when we meet weekly to say, is that on track or is it not? I can trust that it's on track or not. I don't need to dig into or micromanage that work. I need to be available for it.
00:27:48:21 - 00:28:16:02
lisa
If it's my responsibility as a thought partner or internal business partner to make sure that that is delivered. But otherwise, I know that by, you know, Q4, we will be in a new banking operational system. And that feels reassuring versus wondering. Nobody in business wants to wonder if something is getting done. And yet that wondering posture is pretty typical [cuts out] don't have strong accountability models across the team members.
00:28:16:04 - 00:28:37:05
lisa
EOS solved for that very simply. And it also gives us a chance to be much more efficient. It reduces the number of meetings, it creates clearer and stronger communication and I think it lets us all count on each other in ways that are less likely when you're sort of freestyling your agenda and spending more time on problems than solutions.
00:28:38:21 - 00:28:58:05
Andreas
And talking about structure. I get a sense that you have structure in your personal life as well. Because I read you love habit stacking. And is there any kind of habits you want to share with us that are important to you or that you rely on?
00:28:59:13 - 00:29:22:07
lisa
Reading and exercising are really the two things that anchor every part of my day. Spending time taking care of my body and my mind. By exploring the curiosity that comes naturally for most entrepreneurs. It's a gift to myself and to others. If I take the time to both care for myself physically and mentally.
00:29:22:09 - 00:29:47:07
lisa
And that means retreating into opportunities to explore new ideas, atomic habits. Read, grab and pursue information that is at your fingertips, but you have to carve out and set aside the time to do that. And, you know, I'm always rotating through 5 to 10 books at a time, which seems absurd given the amount of responsibilities and work that I have to do.
00:29:47:07 - 00:30:11:20
lisa
But I found ways to integrate that into my day. I'm a book... I joke that I inhale books with my ear balls. I'm really good at retaining and appreciating information that I'm listening to. I retain it much better. And applying the things that I'm learning has been very much to the benefit of my team.
00:30:11:22 - 00:30:32:03
lisa
You want to be what you want to see. One of the things that we've and one of the models that we've tracked and followed over the years is Radical Candor. That book has done a good job of helping us understand what it means to give clear and kind feedback, but not to wrap it up in compliments.
00:30:32:05 - 00:30:53:14
lisa
I had a conversation with a team member who was on a call where we're working with the potential for a third party vendor, and she came in, less prepared for that conversation, and she should have been. And what happened is we ended up wasting some time on a on on a contribution she made that wasn't adding value.
00:30:53:16 - 00:31:09:00
lisa
I could have let that go. Or I could have said, I love having you in meetings. And you add so much value. But this thing happened. And thank you for being on the call. But instead I say I care about how you're showing up to calls. And I also recognize that this is a new environment for you to be.
00:31:09:00 - 00:31:30:09
lisa
And in those partnership conversations, I want you to spend more time prepping, and I want you to spend more time thinking about what it is that you're adding in terms of value, so that you come away feeling like you made that contribution and got what you needed from the call. Here are some things I recommend doing so that you can get there and I'm a support for you as you figure that out.
00:31:30:11 - 00:31:57:21
lisa
And those are harder conversations to have, but they're far more productive and they're kinder than hiding behind, you know, sort of hollow compliments, tacking on harder feedback and then smashing something else that's positive at the end. Be clear, be kind and be specific with feedback. In compliments as well, which we give positive feedback often, I will say that we don't do it often enough.
00:31:57:21 - 00:32:15:09
lisa
If someone's interacted with a client and you're impressed with that interaction and saying, you did a great job with that client, thank you. Tell them why. You did a great job with the client because you were clear on timelines. You were brief, but you were specific, which was really helpful.
00:32:15:11 - 00:32:38:03
lisa
You were kind and empathic in the communication, you followed up quickly within two hours, which is part of our brand promise. And the client was clearly pleased with that because they were applied kindly and they knew what the next step was. Clients need to know what comes next. When they know what's next they have trust. When they don't know what's next, they have concerns.
00:32:38:05 - 00:33:05:01
lisa
And that is up to us. That's something we can control in our communication. So I've not only done them the favor of calling out something that I'm happy and impressed with, but I've actually shown them exactly what worked so that they know what to do over and over again. And when you praise publicly, which is what radical candor does a good job of sharing out, when you praise publicly, you're telling everybody else what it is that shines across the company.
00:33:05:06 - 00:33:15:16
lisa
And everybody wants praise. Everybody wants the dopamine rush. Taking the time to praise, specifically, is what's going to actually encourage people to do more of what you want and less of what you don't.
00:33:17:07 - 00:34:02:06
Andreas
My experience is we are, a lot of leaders are unintentional about praise. So we don't praise enough. And we're also unintentional about criticizing. So sometimes we criticize in public rather than criticizing in private. And for me, one of the biggest takeaways from, you know, learning to be a leader is criticize in private and praise in public and praise in... Yeah. And praise in all honesty and criticize with radical candor with, like you said, showing you care, demonstrating you care before, you offer the criticism or the feedback.
00:34:02:06 - 00:34:27:00
Andreas
lisa, you are also very active socially. And you have launched birdSEED, which is offering down payments for homeowners, who come from disadvantaged minorities. What led you to care about those minorities? What's the why behind your work?
00:34:28:07 - 00:34:45:16
lisa
I grew up with a lot of housing insecurity. And, you know, you were able to spend a little bit of time looking at that origin story for me. I lived in 23 different spaces by the time I got to college. I had an inconsistent education. I had an inconsistent family model. And there were a lot of barriers and hurdles there.
00:34:45:17 - 00:35:26:17
lisa
But at the same time, I was able to achieve success, in large part because I have the privilege of being a white woman in a world that honors and privileges whiteness. If you study and look at the trajectory of discrimination in the real estate environment, and racism in the real estate environment, you'll see quite clearly that racial discrimination is alive and well and historically has done a lot to ensure that people of color have less and people that look like me have more.
00:35:26:23 - 00:36:02:02
lisa
In particular, because we know that wealth generation is very much tied to real estate. We have created policies that have consistently and persistently done everything they can to keep people of color from generating that wealth by excluding them from the home buying and home acquisition process through redlining, through predatory lending, through loan products and programs that have been a disservice, to rent-to-own programs.
00:36:02:04 - 00:36:31:17
lisa
The depth of discrimination it is shameful. And I looked around as a member of and a thriving member of the residential real estate environment and asked myself, do I want to continue to profit from an industry that has done this to people that don't look like me? And the answer was no. What is my responsibility?
00:36:31:17 - 00:37:03:13
lisa
I'll shut my window because I got lots going on out here. What is my responsibility to the community that has not been able to benefit from real estate ownership? And is there something that I can uniquely do to right that wrong? That is when the idea for the birdSEED Foundation became clear to me, which was, I just want to help people buy homes that don't look like me, and I want to do that with as much simplicity as possible.
00:37:03:15 - 00:37:32:04
lisa
I decided if you could simply give 10 to $15,000 to get people closer to the home buying finish line and make that 10 to $15,000 the easiest 10 to $15,000 they get what would it mean to accelerate home buying. And just, frankly, give somebody a windfall just like the windfall I got. I cared for a relative for a number of years when I lived in Tucson, Arizona.
00:37:32:06 - 00:37:55:09
lisa
And there's... it's an emotional and sweetheart story in many ways and a hard one for me. But the long and the short of the story is I received an inheritance of a car, a Honda Civic, that I immediately sold and bought my first property with, an Adobe duplex in Tucson, Arizona. And I immediately became a landlady. I owned the whole thing for $83,000.
00:37:55:11 - 00:38:15:18
lisa
That $8,300 transformed the trajectory of my life. What if I could do the same for others? I didn't have to take any tests. I didn't have to go through programs. I didn't have to report on the $8,300 and what I did with it. It was just simply a gift [cuts out] as I chose, and I chose to invest it in property.
00:38:15:20 - 00:38:49:03
lisa
And that changed my opportunity radically for the rest of my life. I want to pay it forward and do the same for others that's not available. Because when you don't have generational wealth, you can't pass wealth on. Someone was able to pass something on to me, and that should be an opportunity for all people, regardless of color. And so we did what we can, in this moment in time, which is to create that no strings attached down payment program that gives people access to those funds that made a difference for me.
00:38:49:06 - 00:39:12:21
lisa
And I'd like to make it a difference for them. And over the course of four years since we started birdSEED, we've been able to help 25 families with their homes. They've closed on those properties. We continue to partner with community organizations to get the word out. And twice a year we make about ten awards. Folks that are awarded those funds have a period of time to go out and look for that [cuts out].
00:39:12:23 - 00:39:33:20
lisa
Even from Greece, the real estate market and environment is volatile. And it's changed quite a bit from interest rates to pricing to supply. And we have, our grantees are struggling with the same things that any buyer is struggling with, but with more barriers and burdens. We work hard to make sure that they have additional resources to get through and navigate that process.
00:39:34:01 - 00:39:50:14
lisa
And while it may be slow going, we know that those 25 grants have made a substantial difference to the folks that have closed. We have other folks, about 25, who are actively looking for their homes so they can deploy those grant dollars, and we'll continue to do this for as long as we [cuts out] and do as much as we can.
00:39:50:19 - 00:40:11:02
lisa
We know that the birdSEED Foundation is, sadly, the only organization of its kind. That no strings attached model is novel. We trust our grant recipients to do what they are saying they're going to do, which is buy a home. The funds are released at closing, and we have a robust and very ethical review process.
00:40:11:04 - 00:40:31:18
lisa
But the real focus is not to burden the applicant. We overburden buyers as it is, whenever we offer a grant opportunity or support. And we didn't want to be that. We wanted to be a refreshing opportunity to, like, stack this program with others, and to not just create affordable housing. It's not about affordable housing.
00:40:31:18 - 00:40:38:23
lisa
It's about wealth creation for people that don't look like me. And I can say, if I do nothing else in my life, I'll be the proudest of this.
00:40:40:20 - 00:40:44:03
Andreas
Have you thought about how you can scale it to 2500 families?
00:40:44:12 - 00:41:10:00
lisa
Yeah, I feel great about that goal, you know, go back to the beginning of our conversation. The company needs to be successful for birdSEED to get where it's to be. And part of that means not just the company supporting that financially. Frankly, we've done a very good job of raising money to support what we're doing, but it needs more of my time.
00:41:10:02 - 00:41:36:15
lisa
If the company is thriving, that means I can have more time released to support and focus on programs that really do make a difference and are very strong models for how we can contribute as individuals across the country. We've expanded the program to Philadelphia and been successful there as well. We know we have portability and we know that over time, the proof of concept will allow more and more folks to say, wow, that program really works.
00:41:36:17 - 00:41:49:13
lisa
We've enjoyed national attention and media for what we've done. We know people are excited about it. We know it's a really refreshing model and philanthropy. And as time allows, we get as much energy as we need from it. It just needs more time.
00:41:51:13 - 00:42:05:04
Andreas
And, lisa, as we're approaching the wrapping of the podcast, what would you say to people who are less intentional about either their workforce or the community they operate in?
00:42:06:08 - 00:42:36:02
lisa
It's a missed opportunity. It feels good for work to feel good. And it feels good to do good with your business. I think we underestimate ourselves as business people and the impact that we can have on people in the world. And we look at politicians and policy, and we look at the slow going, and the barriers to things changing. If we want a more just and equitable future, where all of us can thrive and seek opportunity.
00:42:36:07 - 00:42:57:05
lisa
Business can play an important role in doing that. And it does start with justice at the home office. It starts with caring for your people and giving them good jobs. Not jobs where you're depending on them to have less so you can have more. And frankly, the feeling that you get from that, is one that I have enjoyed from the moment we opened our doors as Nest DC.
00:42:59:02 - 00:43:42:13
Andreas
lisa, I'm inspired by the care and the thoughtfulness you've put on underprivileged communities that you serve with birdSEED and with Nest, the care you put in how you structure your, you know, from your internal processes to, you know, the homes that you build and take care of. And also inspired by your thoughtfulness, you're one of the few people that actually I think I could be taking notes and writing a book from what you say, you know, it all comes out fluidly.
00:43:42:15 - 00:44:06:12
Andreas
So thank you for being here with us. And, I hope everyone listening is inspired to do a little bit more for their community, whichever one that is. And, thank you, everyone, for listening and for being generous with your time. If you've made it to the end of this episode, hopefully you like this episode.
00:44:06:12 - 00:44:24:10
Andreas
And in that case, do tell your friends about it and do leave a comment because that will help us get the word out. You can always email me at andreas@rethinkculture.co with your comments or anyone you think we should be definitely bringing to the podcast. And if you're just listening and not watching, you're missing out.
00:44:24:10 - 00:44:44:03
Andreas
Because lisa and I are here on YouTube, live. And you can find us at youtube.com/@rethinkculture. And, as I like to say, keep on creating a happier workplace. And I would also say a more just workplace for you and those around you. Thank you.