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I’m Paul, the host of The Neurodiversity Voices Podcast.
I’m not a clinician, researcher, or professional expert — and that’s intentional.
I come to this work as a neurodivergent individual with lived experience. I know what it feels like to navigate systems that weren’t designed for how your mind works, to question your own capacity because of labels, and to search for language that actually reflects who you are, not just how you’re measured.
This podcast exists because too many conversations about neurodiversity happen about us, rather than with us.
How This Podcast Is Different
Unlike many podcasts in this space, The Neurodiversity Voices Podcast isn’t built on credentials or clinical authority. It’s built on listening, reflection, and shared humanity.
I don’t position myself as an expert with answers. I show up as a facilitator of stories — asking curious, grounded questions from the perspective of someone who lives this reality every day.
That means:
Conversations aren’t rushed or overly polished
Guests aren’t reduced to diagnoses or achievements
Complexity, contradiction, and uncertainty are welcome
Lived experience is treated as valid knowledge
Whether I’m speaking with educators, parents, authors, creatives, researchers, or other neurodivergent individuals, the focus is always the same: seeing the person before the label.
Why Lived Experience Matters Here
Being neurodivergent shapes how I listen, how I notice patterns, and how I hold space. It allows me to ask questions that come from recognition rather than assumption — and to create conversations that feel safer, slower, and more honest.
This isn’t a podcast about fixing people.
It’s a podcast about understanding ourselves, our systems, and each other more clearly. If you’re looking for expert opinions, you’ll find many excellent shows.
If you’re looking for real conversations, grounded in lived experience and mutual respect, you’re in the right place.
The Neurodiversity Voices Podcast — Embracing Every Mind. Sharing Every Voice.
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One of the more crazy stories I recall many years ago in India. There's probably a not safe for work story actually. So I was traveling by a night bus and I'd had such a journey at that point and I'd had like a kind of heartache and break and I was tired. And it was my second trip to India, so I was familiar and I had friends in the South and I'd been traveling in the North, so I wanted to get to the South. I was on a bus.
Nathan Stafford-King:I think it was a twelve hour bus from Mumbai to Goa. And I have recalled this bus life. The first thing that he said is some of those roads are pretty crazy. So this is like the bus in inception when the bus goes over the thing and it's all about this and everyone's and every corner of this thing, I'm I swear it was there were sets of curtains inside and they were almost horizontal at some point with some of the turns. I don't know how the bus didn't didn't fly over.
Nathan Stafford-King:And it's not just about being, you know, not able to stop talking or or so on because not everyone who has ADHD has those signs. It's also emotional regulation and how you deal and respond to things. There's so much more that people don't necessarily realize it's going on there.
Paul Cruz:Hello, and welcome to the Neurodiversity Voices podcast. I'm your host, Paul. And we're thrilled to have you join us on this journey of exploration, advocacy and celebration of neurodiversity. Together, we'll have meaningful conversations, share inspiring stories, and challenge misconceptions about neurodiversity. This podcast is for everyone, whether you're neurodivergent yourself, an educator, a parent, or just have you as we celebrate the beauty of diverse minds and work towards a more inclusive future.
Paul Cruz:So sit back, relax, and let's get started. Welcome to the Neurodiversity Voices podcast. Hello and welcome to the Neurodiversity Voices Podcast. I'm your host, Paul. Today's conversation is one that gently weaves together travel, creativity, identity, and the lived experience of ADHD, not as a label, but as something that shows up in everyday moments, big transitions, and the story we tell about ourselves.
Paul Cruz:My guest today is Nathan, a storyteller, photographer, theater director, and someone whose life has taken him across continents, cultures, and creative paths. In this episode, we talk about what it means to live between places, to feel grounded and unsettled at the same time, and to navigate ADHD across different systems, countries, and expectations. We explore misdiagnosis, hyperfocus, humor, and the beauty of being a generalist in a world that often demands specialization. Nathan shares moments that are deeply reflective, unexpectedly funny, and profoundly human. The kind of stories that remind us we're not broken for taking a non linear path.
Paul Cruz:So wherever you're listening from, I invite you to slow down, settle in, and join us for a conversation about perspective, creativity, and what it means to belong. Not to one box, but to the world. Nathan, welcome to the Neurodiversity Voices podcast. I'm so glad you're here. Let's jump right in.
Paul Cruz:You've had quite an international life moving across several countries before landing here in Canada. Can you paint us a quick picture of that journey? Was there a place that really surprised you in either way or hardest way?
Nathan Stafford-King:Yeah, definitely. So my journey here, I suppose in terms of international, I first started traveling when I was 19. That was the first time that I left my country at all. I never had the chance when I was younger and I just went for one week in Berlin and it kind of gave me a taste. I remember at the time I told myself, right, I'm gonna go every month to Europe.
Nathan Stafford-King:It's really easy from The UK And it didn't quite happen. I think it was another two years before I went anywhere. It was after I'd finished a contract as a youth worker and I did a training course in Denmark. The same company then offered me a job two months after. In between that I went to train as a yoga teacher in India.
Nathan Stafford-King:So I went to India, then I moved to Denmark and I lived there. Then I came back to The UK and then I had quite a few years of transience. So I ended up traveling more, going back to India, living there. I spent some time living in Australia and New Zealand. Yeah, lived and worked in a lot of other countries as well.
Nathan Stafford-King:I came back to The UK, was in Germany, was in Europe. I ended up in the pandemic being in The UK for four years. And then, in 2023, I moved to Japan and lived there
Nathan Stafford-King:for a year. Then I lived
Nathan Stafford-King:in Mexico for six months, and I'm passed through The UK on the way to here. So I've been living in Canada, in Vancouver now for a couple of months. The place that I think most surprised me was probably Australia. I'm not really a person that experienced before that culture shock. I wish people found surprising places like India, which is very different, but I think I was prepared for the difference.
Nathan Stafford-King:So it wasn't a a shock. It wasn't so much of a culture shock. But Australia, I was not prepared for the difference. I really thought it would be the same as The UK, and it's very different and very different. The culture is is completely different.
Nathan Stafford-King:So I experienced culture shock for the first time in my life, and I found it really hard because, yeah, I thought I would fit in. I didn't. I always felt a bit different there, and it was it was a bit harder than I thought. I had a great time, great memories in Australia, but overall, it was a pretty tough year of my life, when I reflect back on it. So, that that was that was quite a surprise.
Paul Cruz:That path across countries clearly shaped so much of who you are. Another part of your story that really stands out, it's the mix of roles you've taken on along the way. You've had a really diverse mix of jobs and roles over the years. What are a few of the most memorable ones and what did each teach you?
Nathan Stafford-King:The common thing that each has taught me is about people and that's a common theme in in any role, job, work, or undertaking. For me, at least, people have been a fundamental aspect of that. With every person, you can learn something new. They always teach something. They have stories, which is amazing.
Nathan Stafford-King:In terms of where I've been, yeah, it's been everything from when I was younger wanting to be a politician. I was in the youth parliament, when I was 16 or 17. I ushered in a theater then when I was 17. I spent some time not really knowing what to do, so I recall working in a cafe. And my first big job was as a youth worker.
Nathan Stafford-King:So I was contracted for one year doing that and after that then works on youth projects, I'd worked in and out of acting and doing performance and theater. Yeah. All sorts then and then when I started to travel, it was kind of whatever you can do really, so cleaning beds and working in hostels and hotels. I'd been traveling on the road at music festivals, working there. I've been a manager, stage manager, a few places, worked manual labor jobs, lifting bales of hay and all sorts and, yeah, a bit all over the place.
Nathan Stafford-King:And then I ended up working in a museum for four years. So that's probably the most, in one sense, consistent thing. I have worked in other jobs for a long time, but that was probably the most consistent thing is being in a museum for that long. More recent thing I did in The UK was directing a play. So in terms of the memorable, yeah, I think it's something I recall from before was in New Zealand.
Nathan Stafford-King:It was a very brief job, but it was something I suppose I just I just saw it and I wanted to, you know, to do it. I knew it was temporary. So I was working as a a florist, as an assistant to a florist over Valentine's Day. I just thought it'd be really interesting to work in a flower shop. I in contact with them and they said, yeah, sounds like you could, yeah, basically come and help us.
Nathan Stafford-King:And so, yeah, that was only a couple of weeks. It was really short lived out of all of the things I've done, but is memorable. Of course, it was really different, and it's a very unique time period as well because we think of other professions, and they've all got their designated busy times. Maybe it's Christmas for some places and, you know, others, pubs and bars, it might be New Year's. But for a florist, it's obviously Valentine's Day is pretty much the big day of the year for them.
Nathan Stafford-King:And I recall how stressed everyone was, and me, it didn't affect me because I just thought I'm working in a flower shop. This is great. So I think I was a bit oblivious to the amount of work that was happening because I was just enjoying it so much. So, yeah, that was number one.
Paul Cruz:All of those jobs, all of those chapters have led you to where you're standing now. And speaking of now, you've just started a brand new chapter here in Vancouver. You've been in Vancouver for just a couple of months. What's been grounding for you so far and what's still influx?
Nathan Stafford-King:Well, today is a gorgeous sunny day. So Mhmm. The weather and the outdoors is is pretty grounding for me. The sun, whenever it comes out, is great. But I don't think I can say that because it's not consistent enough to say that it's been grounding.
Nathan Stafford-King:I think for me, it's a bit of a funny answer, but, food really is, something that's always been I've always used it to ground myself. And if my food routines are off, pretty much the rest of me is as well. Mhmm. There's something about slowing down and taking the time to prepare food that just brings you back to the basics. Sometimes I can be a bit too attached to it in the routines, and then you get frustrated because you think, oh, I'm just I'm just a slave to this routine, but at the same time, you have to eat.
Nathan Stafford-King:And I think coming back into that, it's a very humbling thing as a human being. It reminds us that, you know, there's a lot of things that we might wanna do. Our minds might be racing. We might have all these ambitions and everything else, but there are fundamental things that we're consigned to. You've got to eat.
Nathan Stafford-King:You've got to sleep. You've got to drink water. These are the fundamentals. So, yeah, I would say food and cooking good meals and particularly sharing that with my partner has been really, really anchoring. In terms of things that are up in flux, it feels like most other things are kind of up in flux.
Nathan Stafford-King:You know, I'd like to get some of my my routines and my hobbies established a little bit, like sight drawing and painting again. That would be really great. And, kind of finding consistency in work. I'm really enjoying work. My hours are kind of as the weeks go by, so, it's still a bit in flux in that regard.
Nathan Stafford-King:Mhmm. So I'm I'm used to it, so it's not not too bad.
Paul Cruz:You mentioned things that feel grounding and things still in flux, which ties beautifully into something a lot of listeners will relate to, your ADHD journey. Let's talk about your ADHD journey. When did it first come onto your radar and what led you to start exploring a diagnosis?
Nathan Stafford-King:I suppose it's in one sense it's always been on the radar and that as a child, it was pretty apparent that there was something there. It was something my mom tried to explore. But in The UK, and at least at that time, it was really massively, massively underdiagnosed. There was a lot of stigma around diagnosis, about it not really being a real condition, and so it just didn't happen. I recall my mom asking, well, my mom tells me, she asked about it, and, and they just said, well, he's, he's not too bad.
Nathan Stafford-King:So just don't worry about it. And that was kind of the story because I was never the naughtiest child. There was always, you know, one or two kids that were more of a handful in the classroom. So I suppose from the perspective of the teacher, it's like, well, he's difficult, but he's not the main focus. So, yeah, it was never a big enough issue for other people.
Nathan Stafford-King:And it it seemed to be fine for me because when you're you're younger, you know, for some people it's it's okay. And I managed to get by and they kind of fed me enough things, but it started to become more problematic, of course, the older I got. And you can't just rely on ability to get through. So my exams up until a certain point were already good but probably when I was about 14, I started to clash a lot more with teachers and so I had a lot more conflict. And when I got to what we call college in The UK which is you go there for two years between 16 and 18 and you pick three or four subjects.
Nathan Stafford-King:It all kind of collapsed for me. I think my attendance at one point was like 30%. It was I shouldn't I shouldn't smile or be proud of that. It was very bad. I think it was kind of masks because I I also you know, my parents were going through divorce formally, and there were a lot of things up in the air.
Nathan Stafford-King:At 17, I also got diagnosed with psychosis, which now in hindsight was a misdiagnosis. And the treatment for that is pretty much the opposite of what you would hope for ADHD, which was, you know, trying to remove dopamine from your system. And that was a really rough time because, yeah, they were taking away the thing that I already had an imbalance and difficulties with. You know, if you don't know what it is, you don't know what it is. So it wasn't until, gosh, about four or five years ago, maybe, maybe a bit more recently, that a close friend of mine from childhood decided to explore it.
Nathan Stafford-King:And yeah. Yeah. Not not not proud to say, but, know, my first thought was, well, come on. If you've got it, I've definitely got it because you do that typical thing. Think you know your friends inside out or you you don't live as they live.
Nathan Stafford-King:So there's a lot of things that, you know, with masking or things that they hide. My friend was not, at least in my company, displaying things externally as much but inside he was struggling, which I wasn't aware of. But at the time, I didn't know too much. I was just thinking like, wow, I mean, if you've got it, I definitely got it. I should look into it.
Nathan Stafford-King:So I did and I think I was a bit lucky because it was just before the big wave of people post pandemic who were, you know, now if you want to look into it, everyone is thinking like, yeah, this shows when you've got two years of being trapped indoors and people were scrolling on their smartphones, everyone's like, wow, must have ADHD. And so there's a massive list of, you know, it's a long wait now to get diagnosed. I think, yeah, mine was relatively quick. It took about a year, maybe less than that, maybe nine months. I had a really good doctor and yeah, never considered it because I had bad experiences with prescription medication and I just thought, no, It's not for me.
Nathan Stafford-King:But then my friend got diagnosed and I thought, well, maybe maybe it will help because I felt I was at a point in my life where I had I was doing all the right things. I was eating well. I had good routines, sleeping well, exercising, doing everything that you should do, and yet some days were just unpredictable. And it seemed unfair because I thought, hey. I I slept, like, eight or nine hours last night.
Nathan Stafford-King:I drank loads of water. I didn't eat any sugar. I did everything right. And yet I just have days where I just couldn't have any focus. And then there might be a day where I did everything wrong.
Nathan Stafford-King:I slept badly, I ate some sugar, and I was fine. And I just thought this isn't fair. It just seems random. And I can't, you know, you can't control everything in life, but it just didn't seem functional. And especially if I wanted to start pursuing some of my bigger ambitions, I just thought I'm not gonna do it.
Nathan Stafford-King:I think I need to look into this and and try and find a better way. So that was when I I got diagnosed.
Paul Cruz:That's such a real look at the diagnosis process. And once you have the diagnosis, the next question is often, how does this show up day to day?
Nathan Stafford-King:All the time. And especially in in transition, I think probably it's affected me in the last couple of years more than it's I feel like it has. Because at some point, you just accumulate things, possessions, projects for me, and I think I'm feeling the weight of, like, having too many unfinished things and still wanting to finish them and hold on to them, but realizing that, well, yeah, I don't have a time machine. And so it feels like it's all kind of caught up. And it's hard because it comes on a daily basis where you set out and you wanna do something, but something might come in that just throws you off a bit or you might have a distraction and then you go ahead with it that hour ago.
Nathan Stafford-King:That's I didn't plan that into my day. So then you kind of have to take it out. So I think that there has to be a lot of patience with oneself and flexibility to accept that, and also not trying to cram things into the day, which I am guilty of because, yeah, of course, if everything goes as it should go, then you can you have a schedule and it's gonna be like, I'll go from a to b to c to d, and it will run on time. And some days, it it might. But, you know, with me, there's always gonna be a higher chance that there'll be something come up and that will mean that's not not possible.
Nathan Stafford-King:Or I'll get distracted in tasks that they're nice to do, but they're not really what I had planned to do. You get a feeling of accomplishment, but not a deep sense of fulfillment. So there's a lot of, like, short short term gains. So it's, yeah, a bit harder. I would say that's how it shows up on a daily basis.
Paul Cruz:Can you share a recent moment of hyper focus that made you think, yeah, that's the ADHD spark right there?
Nathan Stafford-King:Definitely. It was when I've been editing videos. So, yeah, I directed a play earlier in the year. I filmed it because one thing that I have has been I don't I try not to have regrets, but it's one thing that I could say maybe I regret is I've done loads of creative projects theatrically, and I have very little, it feels, to show for that. I even did a one person show several years ago, my thing I was most proud of and I only have a selfie from that.
Nathan Stafford-King:So, yeah, I I decided that enough was enough. So when I directed this play, I made sure I filmed it all and filmed it well. So at the end, I would be able to say I directed a play and then prove it. And if anyone asks, what do you do? What's your thing?
Nathan Stafford-King:I can say, this is it. This is my thing. Look at this thing I did. So, of course, I had to edit those videos. There's a lot more work than what I maybe had put aside.
Nathan Stafford-King:I knew it would take a long time, but I was focusing on that. And I would I would sit down for eight hours a day in front of the user and and just and just get through it and do it, which was fantastic. Yeah. I had to stop and sort of say, right, need to eat now. But when I got back into it, I just got back into it, which for me was amazing because I had just instant focus.
Nathan Stafford-King:There wasn't really too much of needing to warm up. It was just like, right, sit down and and then go, which, oh my gosh, it's great because, yeah, task initiation is sometimes really hard. I do photography as well and that then the middle thing is hard for me because I really like taking photos and I can get lost in taking photos. I actually really like editing them, but what I struggle with is selecting them. So that's the process in the middle, unfortunately.
Nathan Stafford-King:So yeah, often things get, just get stopped at that point because I, I don't like to sit through and look, look through a couple 100 photos and know which one is good and which one is oh, gosh. It's terrible. But with the editing videos, it was I just loved it. But I I really like that process, and it's so easy to just find focus and motivation for that. It's exactly the type of task that my brain just goes into and just works.
Nathan Stafford-King:It just works. So that was great.
Paul Cruz:It's fascinating to hear how ADHD shows up in the smaller moments. And you've seen those moments across multiple cultures, which is something not many people get to experience. You've lived in so many places. How have you seen attitudes toward ADHD or neurodiversity change from country to country?
Nathan Stafford-King:It's really interesting actually because, yeah, I suppose in each culture is different, but then I feel like the pandemic and everything has radically changed that and sort of as alluded to, always have to be very careful because I don't wanna discourage anyone from looking into it. But, also, I do think it's important to recognize, at least in The UK presently, ADHD is a a condition that will only be diagnosed if there were signs present in childhood. It's not the belief that it can come on onset in adulthood. It's a neurological condition that exists from birth or early childhood. And in one sense, I feel like the things have changed in the pandemic because now it's part of discussion, but it's almost used as an adjective.
Nathan Stafford-King:And it's something that I have actually started to notice in Canada that people use it a lot here as an adjective, but I'm a bit ADHD. At first, when I've heard people say it, I'm like, oh, you you have ADHD. But I think I'm now realizing with a few people, some people do, but some people are just describing themselves, which I suppose in one sense, you know, it's positive that it's talked about, but also it doesn't really help, I don't think, the community because it kind of undermines what it is. And it's not just about being, you know, not able to stop talking or so on, Cause not everyone has ADHD has those signs. It's also emotional regulation and how you deal and respond to things.
Nathan Stafford-King:There's so much more that people don't necessarily realize that's going on there. And I think the pandemic has changed that a lot because of course a lot of people had all of that time where they were stuck in and there was a big digital thing and I do think that the digital world we live in kind of encourages behaviors that do resemble things that look like ADHD with social media and Instagram and doom scrolling. And if you get into those habits, your brain is getting used to those quick dopamine hits and it can end up looking like very similar to ADHD. And of course, a lot of people who have ADHD get sucked into those things because it's very easy. I suppose the difference is that when people go back to their routines or they pull themselves away, if those symptoms kind of disappear, then it's just a product of of the the environment.
Nathan Stafford-King:Whereas people with ADHD symptoms don't disappear, they might get a bit better, but they're still present. And that's, you know, like I said, even before when I had all my routines and everything, I still had problems, so it was really frustrating. I would say that the whole world has changed in that sense because now it's on the radar and it's talked about, but there's we're still not quite there. There's that, okay, it's positive because it's probably not stigmatized as much, but maybe it's going the other way where people were using the word a bit too freely. There are differences in cultures.
Nathan Stafford-King:So as mentioned, in The UK, at least for so many years, was underdiagnosed. It was also, I think, considered to be something that was more in The United States Of America. At least growing up, there's a bit of an anti sentiment to the way that health care is done. So a lot of people are like, no, this is not a thing. We don't wanna get diagnosed.
Nathan Stafford-King:And that was a big difference. I've been in other cultures where they're a lot more open or honest about it. I would say North America is a lot more willing to talk about therapy, and we're getting there in The UK, but it's not something you would, you know, traditionally openly disclose. Yeah. I'm seeing a therapist.
Nathan Stafford-King:Whereas I would say my experience in North America is that it's more open. In Japan, was very, I think my experience is that it wasn't that positive. The majority of medications are completely illegal in Japan. And the medication I take, Lisdexamfetamine, is surprisingly the only amphetamine based drug that is actually legal and that's what I was told before I went over. But when I tried to to get prescriptions, it was really hard and they wouldn't wouldn't use my diagnosis from The UK even with a doctor's letter.
Nathan Stafford-King:So the process would have been to get formally diagnosed in Japan and then every two weeks to to pay to see a doctor and then to pay for a prescription then go and collect it. And they wouldn't give me lisdexamfetamine because they only prescribe it for children. So I would have had other things and I just thought it's I think I'll just cope. I'll just cope. Yeah.
Nathan Stafford-King:That was very different. You go to some countries, there isn't an understanding. Some there is. Some countries are more medication heavy, others they might not necessarily call it ADHD, but there's an understanding of the type of energy or so on. In India, they, you know, in the philosophies that I studied, it might be more Vata energy, which is very airy energy and so it might be, okay, these are, in traditional Ayurveda, these are the types of foods you should eat to enhance it.
Nathan Stafford-King:And actually, if you look at those foods, they are the foods that are recommended for people with ADHD. So high protein breakfasts, things like nuts and seeds, and also that are easily digestible in that sense. So it's really interesting. Yeah. There's been, here's a massive topic to to cover with this.
Nathan Stafford-King:Between places, there are big contrasts, but since the pandemic, I think it's raised it globally, so there is a common understanding globally at the same time.
Paul Cruz:Now that you're in Canada, what are you hopeful or maybe a bit nervous about in terms of navigating care and support?
Nathan Stafford-King:I am actually so nervous about it all. I, of course, come from a country where you don't have to think about it. Health care is it's free. You just walk in and yeah. I'm not I can't say you just walk in and see a doctor because there are waiting lists and so on.
Nathan Stafford-King:But paying is not something you have to worry about and it's not an unpleasant surprise. So at the moment, I know I need to explore that because I I only bought a certain amount of medication with me. I could only do that. And I know that will end, so it's something that I have to think about and, yeah, think about how to approach that. So it's all very new for me.
Nathan Stafford-King:And health is really important for me, so it's something that I I want to get right, but it is scary because it's so different. And, yeah, no one really wants to get stung with a medical bill, what is covered and what isn't covered and what's it gonna cost and how easy will it all be. I also know that with my medication, from what I've read, I would have to go on a trial of two other drugs before, but, of course, I would hope that I've already been taking this dexamphetamine for a while, so hopefully, I could just jump straight to that and say, here's a prescription. Can I keep with that? I know it works for me.
Nathan Stafford-King:I know it's fine. So, yeah, that is something. I mean, I'm hopeful. And from what I've seen so far, I've already met other people with ADHD, and it seems to me that it's really, seems to be that people are supportive and at least understood. There doesn't seem to be any intolerance or prejudice or or, you know, it seems that that there's a good understanding.
Nathan Stafford-King:Mhmm. Yeah. That would be my hope that that would that my initial impression is is is how it is and that there's also good support out here and it would be nice to keep meeting people and feeling like there's a community and
Paul Cruz:Of course, sometimes the only thing you can do is laugh. And I know you've collected a few stories along the way that capture the lighter side of it all. We all have those moments when ADHD makes life a bit more unpredictable. Do you have a story that still makes you laugh when you think about it?
Nathan Stafford-King:So many stories. There's yeah. There's one that I certainly will tell. I I don't know how much of an I think it's an ADHD thing now I think about it. I mean, there's a lot of things every day that I experience with my partner that we kind of have to laugh or small things that I do and, yeah, you have a chuckle about.
Nathan Stafford-King:But one of the more crazy stories I recall many years ago in India, there's probably a not safe for work story actually. So I was traveling by a night bus and I'd had such a journey at that point and I'd had like a kind of heartache and break and I was tired and it was my second trip to India so I was familiar and I had friends in the South and I'd been traveling in the North so I wanted to get to the South. I was on a bus, I think it was a twelve hour bus from Mumbai to Goa. And I have recalled this bus life. I mean, the first thing that he said is some of those roads are pretty crazy.
Nathan Stafford-King:So this is like the bus in inception when the bus goes over the thing and it's all about this and everyone's and every corner of this thing, I'm I swear it was there were sets of curtains inside and they were almost horizontal at some point with some of the turns. I don't know how the bus didn't didn't fly over. So the setup of the buses is great. They're great, actually. They're sleeper buses, so they actually have beds in them.
Nathan Stafford-King:And we've got, like, two tiers and their little boxes. Sometimes they have glass and sometimes just curtains. So this one, it had just curtains. So the bus is going, and and I wake up and it's night, and the driver's like, oh, there's this loud drum music. It's like and it's playing, and he's thinking this this driver is not stopping.
Nathan Stafford-King:You're not stopping. And there's no toilet on the bus. And maybe most functional human beings might just just go up to the front and and just explain, hey. I really need to go to the toilet. But for me, I I just you know, it's, like, 3AM and I have in my head already.
Nathan Stafford-King:I hear the bus driver's not stopping. It's not stopping. I have to find a solution. So straight away, I'm just going into a solution thing. I gotta do something.
Nathan Stafford-King:Okay. And I don't know. First thing in my head is that I just go out the window. Very terrible idea, of course. So I prepare myself to go out the window and I open the window and that huge burst of air goes in and then the curtains like and the curtains fly open And then they go across the side of the bus, and they curtains fly open on the other side.
Nathan Stafford-King:And there's just a mother and a daughter, and they stare. And then I'm there by the window with everything out, and then, okay. And I closed the window, the curtains then shut, and I think, no. Gosh. This is really bad.
Nathan Stafford-King:This is really bad. I have to do something. And at this point, I really need to go because I, you know, I prepare myself and I can barely hold it. So I had a big bottle of water, 1.5 liters. Fortunately, I'd already drank half of it.
Nathan Stafford-King:I thought, okay. I'm not gonna waste it. So I drink the rest of it, and that's, you know, almost a liter that I drink. So at this point, I really need to go. I have to go.
Nathan Stafford-King:And I'm like, okay. This is the way I'm gonna do it. And I try doing the bottle, and it's it's a disaster. It's it's terrible, And it goes everywhere except the bottle. So I stop.
Nathan Stafford-King:Don't know. This is bad. It's on my clothes. It's on the bed. I don't know.
Nathan Stafford-King:And then I'm frantic and I'm panicking and I'm not thinking and I'm impulsive. So I go back to plan a. I don't know why I went to plan a because plan a failed. So then I go to open the window again and the same thing happens and the air comes in and the curtain goes and the other curtain goes. And then the mother and the daughter, they stare at me again.
Nathan Stafford-King:And this time exactly the same. It's all out except now I have liquids visibly all over. And froze the window and I'm like, oh my gosh, fire's going on, have to do something. And now I can't go up to the driver because now I'm not covered in all this stuff, probably smelling terrible. And now I'm thinking, this is, what am I doing?
Nathan Stafford-King:I go back to plan B and I won't describe any detail but I found a way to go in the bottle. It was a painful way but I found a way to do it and I make it work So then I end up with this half bottle of this warm liquid that I have to sleep with. I then fall asleep completely wet and but I woke up in the morning and the sun was shining. It was 7AM. Somehow I was totally dry and I don't even think I smelled bad.
Nathan Stafford-King:Probably I did though. And I step outside the bus and it was in Goa and I just thought, I don't care. The sun is shining and I'm where I wanna be and, you know, this is a story. So and I think that's that's one thing about it. You know, it probably happened because of the way I am and but at the same time, also my ability to to kind of laugh and look at things and say, hey.
Nathan Stafford-King:This is another story. So I have a lot of those. There's a lot of things that happened in my life that wouldn't really even make it in a film because sometimes I just don't believe it. I'm like, yeah. You couldn't write it like that.
Nathan Stafford-King:No one's gonna believe it. But, yeah, I think that that's a blessing in a way because I've had a lot of moments in life that have been scary or dangerous or ridiculous or funny that probably wouldn't happen if I was any other way. But then because I am the way I am, I get enjoyment out of that as well. I've learned to enjoy those moments and just laugh about them.
Paul Cruz:That sense of humor really weaves into your creative work. Storytelling is such a big part of what you do. So let's talk about what draws you to the stories you tell. Storytelling is a big part of what you do through photography, directing, and conversation. What kinds of stories are you most drawn to and why?
Nathan Stafford-King:Humanistic ones, definitely. Ones that convey some aspect of human nature. I am really fascinated by people in the ways that I understand them and in the ways that I don't understand them. And, yeah, I really like and, you know, for me, what I really wanna do in in life is be able to produce art that that that gets people to connect with that and just just have some pause or reflection or some aspect of what it is to be human because there's not really one definitive answer to that question. I think we should still ask the question not to get an answer, but just to explore it.
Nathan Stafford-King:And I like exploring things, and I really like the beauty and the simple things. I like the everyday. I think it's very interesting. Mhmm. You know, there's not many films where you just see someone washing dishes and brushing their teeth because we take these things for granted.
Nathan Stafford-King:Right? Wow. It's just whatever. That's not gonna make an interesting film because everyone does it. But actually, if you get people in the right mindset to slow down, there's no reason why those things can't come into films because they do depict something that's real.
Nathan Stafford-King:And I don't think those moments should necessarily pass us by. Practically speaking, they do because you can't just I am a person who believes, you know, living in the moment is really great, but if you're permanently living in the moment, then it's one way to live. I can't do it because I have things I want to do. So sometimes you rush and, you know, you don't pause and savor everything in the way that would be lovely to do. But every so often you should because again, yeah, it's like I said about food, it brings you back into the basics and the fundamentals.
Nathan Stafford-King:Also the fact that anything can be a moment of beauty. Everything is some kind of experience for us, even if we've experienced it a million times or a thousand times before, maybe a million times if we're breathing, or something that we've we're experiencing for the first time, there's still it's it's still an experience. And I like that with with humans. So that's why I really like, stories of of interaction. I think that life itself is interaction.
Nathan Stafford-King:Life started through some kind of interaction, you know, the first cells and then the first cells divide and then they interact with each other, and then we end up with what we call life as we know it, which is kind of built on this cycle of interaction in one sense. So I like stories that show that, and I'm particularly interested in stories that show perspectives. That's why also why I travel. And I think that when you get people who have different perspectives and they interact, then you start to to get some really interesting things happening. Also with those who have the same perspective interacting, I think there's a lot to be said about group thinking and so on.
Nathan Stafford-King:And I'm interested in in the psychology and sociology of people in those contexts. But I do have, yeah, probably an inclination for stories that that get us to see different perspectives because I really think that's a higher form of knowledge. We can spend our whole lives in ourselves and getting incredibly knowledgeable, But the minute that you're able to step into someone else's perspective, I feel that you you doubled your knowledge instantly because otherwise, what you know is limited to to one person. Whereas when you truly step into the world of another, then you have a second world and then the more times you do that, you have a third and a fourth and a fifth and, you know, there are, in theory, 8,000,000,000 worlds out there and that's just a human perspective, let alone if we tell the stories of non human animals, which I think we'll start to see a lot more of. I really believe that actually.
Nathan Stafford-King:I talked about it a lot in the last few years of like, I really want to see stories where they show animals. And then this film Flow came out and was a phenomenon last year. And I kind of sensed that, or this year maybe it came out. This year, last year. The fact that you could have a story that doesn't have any spoken dialogue in words and it's just animals on the screen for the whole.
Nathan Stafford-King:And it works because it's a story and they have personalities and characters. Yeah, those are the kinds of stories I love ones that show though, and the same, that film is based on animals, but it's also different animals, different perspectives, how they interact for better So, or for yeah, I I really like that for me is that's what fascinates me.
Paul Cruz:Your storytelling is shaped by the places you've been, literally. Travel has been a huge teacher for you so I want to dig into that part of your life. Travel often teaches us things that books or lectures can't. How has long term travel shaped your perspective on people and yourself?
Nathan Stafford-King:I think it I guess, yeah, so much I could say on it. I think each time, yeah, but I think before then we thought it was so each time you break down expectations, and I've learned to try not to have expectations, but you can't help it sometimes. Each time you break down expectations, but you also some of which are met, and that's in the sense that you get stereotypes, and I don't think it's good to generalize. At the same time, I'm going to what I said about group thinking. When you get people who consign purely to group thinking, sometimes stereotypes have become they come from somewhere.
Nathan Stafford-King:And I think it's not fair for us to be prejudiced or judge someone based on how we initially perceive them because that's just a false stereotype. It's, you know, not giving a person chance to be themselves before you've already labeled them. At the same time, sometimes then people don't, you know, they might have certain expectations placed on them by their respective societies and they might conform to that. And that might be where you start to see things like stereotypes. Before I started traveling, I was actually in some ways a lot more open minded because we were raised to be very very liberal and not to to have judgments.
Nathan Stafford-King:And in traveling now, I'm like, hey, actually from what I've observed anecdotally, there are some cultures who do do these things or this or you get a sense of a feeling in one culture. One culture it's more maybe assertive and there might be another place you go to that's more quiet or there are certain things that typically the population might be like really say good at but and then other things not. You start to see those things and you never want to go far down that path because you end up, you know, then you talk about racism and so on, which is certainly not good. But I think that in traveling you do become observant of general populations on a whole in that sense. So there's a sort of quest within to make sure the balance is in check there and to keep yourself in check, which is funny because most people talk about travel and making you more open minded, but I suppose if you start out open minded, it might close your mind, which at times is not, you know, it's good to have a bit of a balance.
Nathan Stafford-King:And you also then are met with things that are completely out of what you expect. It's like the thing I said in Australia. I really expected, you know, my expectation was that it was going be quite similar to The UK and it wasn't. It wasn't at all. And actually now, at the time, I didn't enjoy that so much, but now I would reflect and say, well, of course, that's great.
Nathan Stafford-King:It should have its own. Every country actually has its own is unique. Some we think of as being incredibly unique. Japan is one that comes to most people's minds. For segments of the history, it's been secluded from the rest of the world, so it has developed a bit in isolation, which does make it unique, but, you know, other cultures the same, like I'm European, I come from Europe, and if you're looking on the outside, because when we're inside Europe, we think we're very different, but actually on the outside, you start to see a lot of European countries are really similar, There's a common European identity or way of thinking, but at the same time, you know, even if those cultures have developed very closely to one another, they're still unique and different and they're still different things.
Nathan Stafford-King:Yeah, in that sense, that's kind of that's that's been something that's come away from it. I would say how it shaped me is I really feel it's funny before again, before I traveled, I really considered myself as person of the world, first and foremost, not as someone who is English or British or someone. Course, as you travel, you start to then realize, ah, these are things that I have that I'm I'm a stereotype. I drink a lot of tea, and that's that's the stereotype of of of British people, English people. Why you drink a lot of tea?
Nathan Stafford-King:And it's true. And I I I have that. That's something that I I just did. It's part of growing up in the country. Not everyone.
Nathan Stafford-King:You know, I don't wanna generalize. Not every British person drinks lots of tea, but in that sense, I'm stereotypical. And you start to see things in yourself that you do or you go, okay. That is something that is a product of of my upbringing, of of my environment. And there are some things that you go, I don't want that.
Nathan Stafford-King:And there are some things like, yeah, I'm good with that. That's, you know, in some senses, I never considered myself a patriotic person. But of course, you start to see the things that you think, oh, that's pretty good actually. We have this or I like that. So I think that has been something.
Nathan Stafford-King:I'm not a person that's that attached to identity in that sense because identity for me is the one thing about us that's not ours. Everything else, our body, our personality, our mind, we possess it directly, but identity is something that is actually given to us by others. We can try our very best to influence it, but ultimately, identity, it's about us being identified, which requires an observer, requires someone external to us to identify us. And that again is a matter of perspective. So in that sense, I've never been too attached to it, but I would say that through traveling, you start to bundle things in that you would say, well, if people could see me and they were to put a label, you know, what aspects would I like?
Nathan Stafford-King:And there's bits in my speech that I've taken from my time in Denmark or through the meeting with my partner jokes about it because I, if I talk, I go like I'll talk and then I say, and that's really typical for a lot of my French friends. I've picked that up purely from speaking with French people, so there's things in my speech in the way I am that I've absorbed and even though I say yes, I recognize the parts of me that are British or English and or even Southampton ish, most of me I can say is an amalgamation of the places I've been definitely And I do consider myself in that sense a person of the world. And, you know, if if I were to have a a label in that sense, I'm a being of planet earth first and foremost before I am anything else. And then you start to put other tags on there. Okay.
Nathan Stafford-King:I'm from Europe on this and this, but first and foremost, yeah, I consider myself as a being from this planet. And the more I travel and you start to see commonalities between people all over the planet, because we talk about differences, but we're way more similar in most places. And that's something I think that's really important from travel is why it's really important that people have some sense of it. Just a sense of things existing that are much bigger than the worlds that we have and that not being bad because people say always, then you feel really small, but not really because if you consider that you are part of that thing, then you feel big again. I'm part of a big thing.
Nathan Stafford-King:Individually, I'm small, but I don't have to be an individual if I'm part of a collective So for me, it's it's bands your world even more. And, yeah, again, the thing of perspectives. The more perspectives from different places, then it just, for me, it's more complete. So that's how it shaped me.
Paul Cruz:Looking back, was there one moment maybe on your travels that completely shifted your path or worldview?
Nathan Stafford-King:Yeah. Meeting my partner. A 100%. Of course, through all of my travels, I've had things and moments that have shaped or changed me, but nothing more so than being in a relationship. I met my partner when we were both traveling, and we met in Prague.
Nathan Stafford-King:And it was a time that I don't think either of us expected to meet anyone. People say that, but I you know, there's, I think you have to be open minded obviously, because if you're really, really like, I'm not gonna meet anyone, then you wouldn't. So no matter how people say, oh, we weren't expecting, you know, there was obviously a path both of us that was not expecting, but open minded. But we did, yeah, we talked about that because also when you're traveling, you you don't really expect to meet the love of your life or someone who you're gonna build something with because you're transient. And it was a little bit before I was I was gonna move to Japan.
Nathan Stafford-King:So I'm I was kind of planning to conclude my ties in Europe because I was planning to move my life to to Asia and and to move to Japan and to live there. It was not something that I sort of planned for and and was she the same? And it happened and we we started to build a relationship and she came and stayed with me in in Japan twice. You know, then I ended up living in Mexico for six months, which definitely was, yeah, it's a country that I have always wanted to go to. I feel connection there, but it wouldn't have been something that would have happened in that moment in my life if it weren't for that that meeting And between it shaped me in so many ways in ways that through then traveling and experiencing another culture, but also experiencing another culture through someone, which I think then gives you another layer as well.
Nathan Stafford-King:And in everything really, when you're, I think for me, going back to ADHD, it's also then a reflection on the parts that you have worked on, and then the parts that you have worked on but you need to keep working on, the parts that you've worked on that you think actually are okay, the things you can share. So yeah, it changed and reaffirmed many things simultaneously. So that definitely, mean, I could talk endlessly on that, but I think it's shaped me so much more than anything else.
Paul Cruz:That's such a meaningful moment. Thank you for sharing it. I know many listeners will hear parts of themselves in that story, the ones who feel a bit scattered in life. A lot of people listening might feel like their path is all over the place, doing too many things, not fitting in one box, what would you say to them?
Nathan Stafford-King:You'll be alright. It'll be fine. And I shouldn't trivialize because, you know, I've I've been in some some really, really difficult places in my life, really dark moments. And, yeah, I think the humor has always pulled me out, and there's always been a sort of belief of, like, no. I need to figure this out.
Nathan Stafford-King:In terms of, yeah, making sense of it all, I actually think think I recommended a book. So there's a book. It's called Range. Why generalists can thrive in a specialist world or something like this. It's great.
Nathan Stafford-King:It's a great book because I think a lot of people who have ADHD will resonate with Central Theme, which talks about that we're living in a world that very has a clear value on specialists in the way that we're set up. And it's only something actually even recently in the last couple of weeks that I had realized that The UK is a place that that favors it more than what I I realized because of the way our education structure is. I thought I was really surprised and I had a conversation also. We had a conversation with a friend that we specialize, we start to specialize probably when we're 14 because we get all what's called options, which is where you at 14, you can just stop doing like history, geography, some subjects you just stop. And my partner's like, what?
Nathan Stafford-King:I had to do those till I was 18. I said, no. We just you know, there's some we can just stop and then we get for a couple of years, you get to pick a a few. So you get used to being able to make some choices. And then at 16, you if you want to, not everyone, but you might go to college, and then you pick only three or four subjects.
Nathan Stafford-King:And then you go to university, and then you you obviously pick your your main thing. I mean, is not everyone does it. I didn't go to university, but it's it's an option that's apart. And I didn't really realize that that was quite an early form of specialization that we're encouraged to start to narrow down our choices more and more and more at a very young age. And what it leads to is this value on that where it's pretty clear in the world if you're a specialist then you're gonna have certain forms of work or opportunities or there's a value in that someone who's willing to dedicate all their time into one area and for the people that are considered the Jack of all trades, I think that was initially meant as some kind of compliment that it's kind of seen as not so much now.
Nathan Stafford-King:It's like, well, you just gotta pick one thing or what are you doing with your life and why why are you just floating around and going from job to job, all these random stuff. And you can see it a bit like that and it can be a bit, you can feel like you haven't really got your place in the world. And this book is great because actually makes a really good pace to say that a lot of people who end up being pretty successful or people who are at the top of say that CEOs in companies, whatever, many of them are what we would consider generalists. They might have come in from a different field or a different form of work or they'd switched careers midway through or they'd done several things. And the book makes a case to say that you might feel, at least my interpretation, you might feel that it doesn't make sense for a long time, but at some point, all of that accumulated knowledge, it will add up and it will make sense.
Nathan Stafford-King:And in the time that you either then choose to specialize, then you'll have all of this widespread experience that can help with that. Or if you remain quite generalized, then you're able to see many things. It can be an asset, it shouldn't be considered that you're just scattered or you're not really focused on one thing. But that actually there are a lot of benefits to that and anxiety in the whole can put more value on it. I had a big shift in the way I thought when I met a friend of mine who passed away a few years ago actually, when we met, he was in his eighties And it was at a time when I wasn't really sure.
Nathan Stafford-King:I knew I was pretty, pretty good at photography, but I I've done acting my whole life. And I was like, well, it's really hard, right, to be, to make a career out of photography or acting. Yeah. So if I'm pursuing them both, I'm halving my chances of success. That's why I thought I gotta pick one, and I I just gotta put everything I've got into to doing it.
Nathan Stafford-King:You ask me in ten years time and I might say, yeah, that's the way to do it, I gotta do that and have some focus. I met this guy, had done an acting job and he came up to me afterwards, that was really the performance. He gave me a copy of his book, Okay. He'd written the first of a planned trilogy of autobiographies to cover his life. So he had lived life and it turned out he'd been briefly a professional footballer before moving into cricket.
Nathan Stafford-King:So he was a professional cricketer and with his wife, he was running a dance studio. So he was a dance instructor. He then he ended up running an estate agency. He retrained. He had a big epiphany and he retrained as a social worker and a missionary eventually in psychology, so he was a psychotherapist.
Nathan Stafford-King:And then in in his last years, was a writer. So I just thought, why? You gotta be kidding me. This guy has just had successful careers in radically different fields. And it wasn't like he dipped his toes.
Nathan Stafford-King:He actually had careers. He was successful. He owned his own estate agent company. He he was a psychologist. He he was successful in all of those.
Nathan Stafford-King:And, yeah, of course, I just thought, well, I've seen it now. It exists. Someone like this exists, then clearly there's not one way to do it. Because at that point in my life, I was still young and my experience of the world was this is the only way you do it. Like, you just pick your career and you do it and that's it.
Nathan Stafford-King:And I hadn't really had an experience of anyone doing it differently. So when I met this guy, I just realized there are other ways to live that, you know, I hadn't at least been told about. It made me think that different things are possible and I live by that and I think of it now and sometimes, yeah, it is frustrating. The older you get, especially if you think, gosh, I am doing what I was doing ten years ago, but it is all accumulated experience and at least for me as an actor and a director, it's something that you think, you know, everything I do is part of that career because to be good at those things, you need life experience. As an actor, you you need to experience people.
Nathan Stafford-King:You need to I think the number one skill for an actor is empathy. You need to empathize. You need to understand people. You need to get them. As a director, it helps being able to interact with many people from different backgrounds.
Nathan Stafford-King:Directors are the ones who bring together people who have different specialisms and you have, you gotta get them to work together to make a project, whether it be film or theater, or any kind of project as a director. So, all of these different life experiences for me, they add up. That's what I tell myself to avoid those feelings of frustration. It still happens, of course it does, but it's something that can keep you going. So I think, yeah, for anyone out there who is feeling a bit scattered or so on, I recommend that book.
Nathan Stafford-King:It's great. And just to have some faith that as long as what you're doing is with some kind of intention at all, I mean, intentionality, sometimes you don't have to, but as long as you're able to reflect and, you know, recognize that you're having life experiences, it will add up. And even if there are tough moments where you're just like, right, I I have to make money and I can't do much else, there's there's still value in that. It's still living life. So yeah.
Paul Cruz:And while ADHD has its challenges, it also comes with a spark. Let's talk about what's lighting you up right now. What's inspiring you right now? Any projects, routines, or creative sparks that are bringing you joy?
Nathan Stafford-King:In this moment, the sunshine. Projects wise, I think it's just getting back to, any form of creative helpers. So I do feel like I wanna paint a few things that I've got in my mind. I'd like to start looking through my photos. I think I feel more inspired a bit visually probably than otherwise.
Nathan Stafford-King:Earlier in the year, I really felt inspired to write, especially whilst I was directing play. I don't feel necessarily the urge to have output, but certainly having input, making notes when I'm watching theater or cinema, just to absorb things. I feel like I'm in that phase of visually. Yeah. I really want to start painting and looking through some photo.
Nathan Stafford-King:I think I've got some really cool photos. That would be really cool to start getting out into the world. It's winter, so it's a nice time to to do that. A lot of time indoors. Yeah.
Nathan Stafford-King:Me and my partner have made a really nice kind of space. We've taken our time to to kind of get that set up, and we both feel that we're we've kind of got it now. It's looking looking pretty good. So it's a good space to slow things down in the winter and have the quiet moments in and, you know, it's dark outside and sit in and do a bit of drawing or look through some photos. And, yeah, that's pretty much, I would say, the moment what I'm inspired to do and and maybe in the spring next year to see that's a good time and to start having output and maybe think about writing, think about directing another play for next year.
Nathan Stafford-King:Yeah. But for this year coming winter, it'd be nice just to consolidate experiences and, yeah, paint, draw, express that way. Yeah.
Paul Cruz:Inspiration is a beautiful note to move toward our close. This has been such an open and thoughtful conversation. Thank you, Stafford, for sharing your story with so much honesty and warmth. Before we close, where can listeners find your work or connect with you online?
Nathan Stafford-King:On Instagram. So that's where I put photos. I haven't done anything recently, but that's just at net natus k. And, I can send you a link as well for for the play. That's on YouTube and, yeah, it would be great.
Nathan Stafford-King:If people wanna watch that play, that would be awesome. That's, yeah, the latest thing I'm really pleased with. So, Instagram and YouTube. Hopefully I'll I'll start putting a few more things on there being a bit more active. Thank you so much.
Nathan Stafford-King:Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, and thank you to anyone who's who's listening as well. Yeah. Really, you.
Paul Cruz:Nathan, thank you so much for sharing your story with such honesty, curiosity, and warmth. This conversation is a powerful reminder that neurodivergent lives don't need to follow straight lines to be meaningful and that sometimes the very first and that sometimes the very things that feel scattered are the ones quietly shaping us into thoughtful, creative, deeply empathetic people. If this conversation brought you clarity, encouragement, or just made you feel a little more seen, there are a few powerful ways you can support the work we're doing here. First, you can join our Patreon community. Your monthly support helps keep the podcast going, helps us bring on incredible guests and allows us create more resources for neurodivergent families and adults.
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