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Welcome to "Bean There, Done That!" your essential podcast for mastering the world of hospitality. Hosted by industry expert, Phillip Di Bella, we cut through the noise to deliver straightforward, actionable insights and strategies.
Each episode explores the powerful interplay of knowledge and connections, presenting real-life case studies from Australia's thriving hospitality scene. We feature thought leaders who share their experiences, ensuring you have the answers you need when facing a business challenge.
Whether you're a budding cafe owner or a seasoned hospitality professional, "Bean There, Done That!" is your hub for insights, inspiration, and industry connections. We're here to help you turn hurdles into opportunities for growth and success.
Join our growing community with the hashtags #BeanThereDoneThat, #HospitalityHub, #CafeInsights, and #CoffeeCommune. With "Bean There and Done That," your roadmap to hospitality success is just a listen away.
[TRANSCRIPT]
**0:00:02** - (A): You are listening to Been There, Done that, we present some of the smartest people connected to the business of coffee, people who've succeeded in the tough grind of hospitality by staying ahead of the rest. So join us as we explore the secrets to their success and help you accelerate your business. This show is brought to you by The Coffee Commune, where the coffee community comes to collaborate. Enjoy the show.
**0:00:36** - (Phil de Bella): Hi, this is Phil de Bella and I'm the founder and managing director of the Coffee Commune. And I would love to introduce the Queensland Small Business Commissioner, Dominique Lamb, to the show. Dominique, welcome.
**0:00:47** - (Dominique Lamb): Thank you for having me.
**0:00:48** - (Phil de Bella): It's always a pleasure. And we're using you to kick off this wonderful podcast, which is all about ensuring that small business and medium business across the hospitality industry is informed and up to date. And hopefully we're helping them accelerate their potential. So I thought the great way to start the show series is to have, obviously, the Queensland Small Business Commissioner on the show to give us a bit of a landscape of what is happening in the industry and some tools and stuff that exists that some people might not know about. But firstly, congratulations on your appointment.
**0:01:15** - (D): I was very excited when I heard.
**0:01:17** - (Phil de Bella): Dominique Lamb was going to be in charge of this role because obviously we've.
**0:01:20** - (D): Known each other for a long time.
**0:01:22** - (Phil de Bella): And worked across different industries and in different roles that you've had.
**0:01:25** - (D): And I tell you, I'm one of.
**0:01:26** - (Phil de Bella): Your biggest fans, as you know. So congratulations on the appointment.
**0:01:29** - (Dominique Lamb): Thank you so much. That's very kind.
**0:01:31** - (Phil de Bella): Now, it's been, what, six months, but it feels like or not even, not.
**0:01:34** - (Dominique Lamb): Even it's about four months.
**0:01:36** - (Phil de Bella): Four months, and it feels probably like six years because I tell you, I've been following the journey and have you been busy or what? Especially your mum of two, a wife. Geez, I'll tell you what. Superwoman. But you've been traveling Queensland. Tell us, as a Small Business Commissioner, give us a bit of an overview of the current landscape for small business in Queensland, in particularly the hospitality industry.
**0:01:54** - (Dominique Lamb): So we've been traveling across Queensland, so everywhere, everywhere. Out into the outback kind of far west, north, you name it, we've sort.
**0:02:02** - (E): Of been there and we're continuing to do that.
**0:02:04** - (Dominique Lamb): And I guess what we're seeing across the state is same issues being raised, varying degrees of pain depending on the location and what kind of industry makeup that particular town might have. So the top three things that get raised with us at the moment are skill shortages, housing. So if I can get them, where do I put them? And then the last one, of course, is cost of living, but that's very broad.
**0:02:28** - (E): And it looks at everything from kind.
**0:02:31** - (Dominique Lamb): Of the cost of freight supply chain, electricity, insurance, crime. It could also be cost of labor, superannuation, payroll tax, all costs going up at the same time. So for certainly restaurants and hospitality cafes, we're hearing that their supply is just so much more expensive than it used.
**0:02:50** - (E): To be, and that means their margins are shrinking.
**0:02:53** - (Dominique Lamb): So it's getting harder and harder to kind of stay healthy business and to manage their cash flow.
**0:02:58** - (D): Yeah.
**0:02:58** - (Phil de Bella): And isn't it funny? It doesn't matter whether it's southeast Queensland, Brisbane or North Queensland, everyone's facing the same issues.
**0:03:04** - (D): And we've done a whole heap of.
**0:03:06** - (Phil de Bella): Body of work, obviously, through the coffee commune and what. We found three things to narrow it right down.
**0:03:10** - (D): After ten months of research, it's the.
**0:03:12** - (Phil de Bella): People problem, and that's both retention and attraction. And you've obviously already spoken that and.
**0:03:16** - (D): We'Ll unpack that a bit.
**0:03:18** - (Phil de Bella): This is the first time in 48 years of living that I've seen costs go up all at the same time. And you hit on that as well.
**0:03:23** - (D): But it's at the same time.
**0:03:25** - (Phil de Bella): Nobody and no industry is immune. It's everything everywhere has gone up at the same time. And then the third thing is standing up from a crowd. It's the flooded market, the flooded industry. And of course, there are a lot.
**0:03:35** - (D): Of businesses closing, especially in hospitality, but.
**0:03:38** - (Phil de Bella): There was also such an influx of.
**0:03:39** - (D): Businesses in the last ten years that.
**0:03:41** - (Phil de Bella): Came onto the market, so standing out.
**0:03:43** - (D): From a crowd was really difficult and.
**0:03:45** - (Phil de Bella): That'S what we found. And obviously you've alluded to two of those three.
**0:03:48** - (D): But let's unpack that a little bit.
**0:03:49** - (Phil de Bella): More as a small business commissioner, because.
**0:03:51** - (D): Of course, you're an expert in this.
**0:03:53** - (Phil de Bella): Area because your former role was CEO of National Retail Association.
**0:03:56** - (D): So you know retail well, you know.
**0:03:58** - (Phil de Bella): Fast moving consumer goods, you know retailing, you know hospitality because of your role.
**0:04:03** - (D): So very well qualified is Dominique, who.
**0:04:05** - (Phil de Bella): Sits in front of me, to be.
**0:04:06** - (D): Able to talk about hospitality in general. So let's unpack the people. You talked about it before.
**0:04:11** - (Phil de Bella): The people problem. If you do find them, you've got to house them. But what's the commonalities that you're finding in the people problem across Queensland?
**0:04:18** - (Dominique Lamb): I think that the biggest question I get asked is, where have they gone?
**0:04:21** - (E): Where are they?
**0:04:22** - (Dominique Lamb): Why can't I find them? Why don't they want to work? How do I find them? And then there is the other question about if you go and you engage with some of the programs that are out there, whether it's kind of long term unemployed or whatever it is. What's raised is that they're the same people sort of being put through the.
**0:04:37** - (E): Same courses, which causes small businesses great.
**0:04:40** - (Dominique Lamb): Concern because I think, obviously the focus is on retention. And we know that where you lose a staff member, it costs you about 33% of the annual wage to replace them each time. And so they want to keep them. They're looking at sort of their employee value proposition and what that looks like, but in many cases, the quality of candidate they're getting is not coming through. It's not coming through. But it also means that these people often coming with a whole raft of sort of baggage that small business owners just aren't equipped to look after. So whether it's mental health, whether it's needing lots and lots of flexibility in an environment where really your customer service facing, so working from home is out, what does that look like and how do you do that? So they're looking to sort of create more family structures, bonding with those employees. They're looking at alternative places to find them, whether it's backpackers or whether it's.
**0:05:30** - (E): Finding migrant workers or whatever it is, just to get people into their store.
**0:05:34** - (Dominique Lamb): So that it can alleviate some of what that kind of business owner is dealing with.
**0:05:38** - (Phil de Bella): Yeah, and there's ten podcasts in what you just said because everything's a major problem.
**0:05:42** - (D): Then you got the housing problem and.
**0:05:43** - (Phil de Bella): People don't realize that the flow on effect then becomes the customer service and then the customer gets upset because they're not getting the service yet. The employee is getting paid record highs of what wages are. But let's bring it back to the employee. Then we've got to navigate government. And you know how vocal I am about this, how government just doesn't liaise with industry. And we'll unpack your role in a minute because that gives me some hope, your appointment. But government comes in and starts making changes without consultation, such as the recent one of our international students are now back to 48 hours fortnights. Now, hospitality is already short of staff and so is the building game and other industries. But the government helicopters in and just makes legislation without consultation.
**0:06:23** - (Phil de Bella): What can we do about that? And also how does your role fit in that? Because it'd be listeners listening to this saying, well, you've got the Queensland Small.
**0:06:29** - (D): Business Commissioner in front of you and.
**0:06:30** - (Phil de Bella): Let'S unpack the two parts. There one, your role and what you can do on that, and then where do you see it heading?
**0:06:35** - (Dominique Lamb): So the Queensland Small Business Commissioner was set up to enhance the operating environment for small business across Queen Queensland, and then to minimize the cost and time associated with dispute. So, in effect, we have a team, half of which works on advocacy, which is some of what you're talking about in that we agitate within government, whether.
**0:06:51** - (E): It'S federal, state or council, to make.
**0:06:53** - (Dominique Lamb): Changes that's going to make it easier for business to do whatever they do best, whether it's selling their services or their wares or whatever it is. Part of that is done via submissions. Sometimes it's done as a collective with the other commissioners around the country or with the Federal Small Business and Family.
**0:07:07** - (E): Enterprise Ombudsman, Bruce Wilson.
**0:07:10** - (D Lamb): But we work sort of together to get better outcomes. Now, I guess the difficulty with that is there's a lot of noise in that market. And obviously there are industry organizations, there are businesses that are experiencing these things. Most of the time what we find is businesses are so busy working on or in their business, they don't get the chance to have a say, they.
**0:07:29** - (E): Don'T get a voice, they may or.
**0:07:31** - (D Lamb): May not be part of a member organization, because obviously cost is something that everyone's very sensitive about at the moment. But if that voice doesn't get to some of those government areas, especially if.
**0:07:40** - (E): Those governments aren't primed to consult, then.
**0:07:45** - (D Lamb): You simply don't get heard. And then of course, look, the other part of our business is to try and keep small businesses out of the courts as best as possible. And we do that via alternate dispute resolution. So if you've got a small debt claim, or an issue with a supplier or an issue with the landlord, then we can take you through a process.
**0:08:00** - (E): Which keeps you out of QCAT and.
**0:08:02** - (D Lamb): We'Ve got about an 80% success rate in terms of settling.
**0:08:05** - (Phil de Bella): So you're that conduit. It's important for the listeners to understand.
**0:08:07** - (D): That Queensland Small Business Commissioner role is.
**0:08:09** - (Phil de Bella): Actually the conduit between that end user.
**0:08:11** - (D): The business and the government.
**0:08:13** - (Phil de Bella): And there is a level of agitation.
**0:08:14** - (D): There and not agitating for the sake.
**0:08:16** - (Phil de Bella): Of agitating and not being rebellious for the sake of being rebellious.
**0:08:19** - (D): As I say, that you get to.
**0:08:20** - (Phil de Bella): See and uncover and hear the problems.
**0:08:21** - (D): And then take them back and hopefully.
**0:08:23** - (Phil de Bella): Have an impact on them, which is so important. And again, that's why I'm such a.
**0:08:26** - (D): Big advocate of having you in that.
**0:08:27** - (Phil de Bella): Role, because you understand the industry, you.
**0:08:29** - (D): Understand small business, and government really needs that go to because from a personal.
**0:08:34** - (Phil de Bella): Perspective, they haven't been on the front.
**0:08:35** - (D): Foot for a long time listening to businesses.
**0:08:37** - (D Lamb): I just think that if you don't get out there and you don't go and sit in someone's business and talk to them about what they are personally experiencing, there is no way to know. And especially in those regional communities, because it's just not the same as the Southeast. And if you don't go there, you don't completely get it. And I think it's just essential, which is what we're trying to do.
**0:08:58** - (Phil de Bella): And you don't know what you don't know. So, I mean, kudos for that. So tell us what sort of resources.
**0:09:03** - (D): Are available from your office for businesses that are sitting there going, I am.
**0:09:08** - (Phil de Bella): Doing it tough, and yes, everything that D talking about is affecting me right now. Give us some point of call and we'll have this put up obviously on the key takeaways and on the podcast as well. So obviously the website, but what else, what's available?
**0:09:19** - (D Lamb): There's lots and lots of materials. There's so much there. In fact, I would say call and ask the question, but some of the top things that are available at the moment there are free financial counselors and free wellness coaches. The interesting thing about that is you don't have to be in distress to use a financial counselor, but what they do is work with you around cash flow, how to get improvements in your.
**0:09:38** - (E): Business if you find yourself in a difficult position.
**0:09:40** - (Dominic Lamb): They can negotiate with the tax department, they can negotiate with the landlord. And they also both of these kind of wellness coaches and financial counselors have $5,000 that they can give you towards whatever it is that's going to sort of alleviate some of that pressure.
**0:09:53** - (E): So it might be to a psychologist, it could be to fix a part.
**0:09:57** - (Dominic Lamb): On a coffee machine. They'll pay the service provider to do.
**0:09:59** - (E): It so that you can keep trading.
**0:10:01** - (Dominic Lamb): So there's that, which is one of our big things. There's also 330 free mentors, so mentors for growth that you can access. And those mentors are across all different types of industry and sector, so you can come and say, I want to talk to someone about marketing, I want to talk to someone about HR. They'll find them for you and they'll.
**0:10:18** - (E): Give you, I think it's an hour.
**0:10:19** - (Dominic Lamb): And a half for free. We get really great reviews about that. There's a whole raft of grants now. The Business Basics grants are for $5,000 and the last round has just been announced in terms of who was allocated that money. But there is a new round coming. There's also a whole raft of growth grants as well. So you can get up to $75,000 to invest in your business to put something in place to sort of help you grow.
**0:10:42** - (Dominic Lamb): There's also $5,000 for HR resources.
**0:10:45** - (E): So if you need assistance with what.
**0:10:47** - (Dominic Lamb): Does that look like in your business.
**0:10:49** - (E): How do I put policies and pray.
**0:10:51** - (Phil de Bella): At the moment to stay compliant?
**0:10:52** - (Dominic Lamb): All those things are either compliance, it's there. There's also two free Micro Credentialing courses, one in Business Planning and then one in Workforce Planning, which you can do through the University of Sunshine Coast. They aren't face to face, you can do them online. People across Queensland do them. In fact, I'm about to do the first graduation this week with their business planning course. And also you can pick it up and drop off. So if you start one, you don't have to complete that one and then come back again and pick up the.
**0:11:18** - (E): Subjects that you've done.
**0:11:20** - (Dominic Lamb): There is so much on offer, and that's without looking at what's on offer through councils, and so many councils will.
**0:11:26** - (E): Have kind of smaller business grants in.
**0:11:29** - (Dominic Lamb): Their locations to help you do a whole raft of things. We're out at Somerset recently and one.
**0:11:34** - (E): Of the caravan parks had gotten a.
**0:11:36** - (Dominic Lamb): Grant to put into glamping tents. Brisbane City Council do some small grants for women in business, for instance, are about $5,000. There's lots of different categories and then there's also federal government. I think the thing to note when looking at supports is that there are tools like grant guru that you can use, and government support makes up about 30% of what's out there. So go and have a look at what else is out there in terms of private enterprise, what other people are offering, and that's without all of the skills and training money that's sitting there. Queensland's just put I think it's $70 million into skills. There's a whole heap of free TAFE.
**0:12:10** - (E): Courses available, lots and lots of different things.
**0:12:13** - (Dominic Lamb): Just depends on what you need.
**0:12:14** - (Phil de Bella): It's mind boggling, isn't it? And for the listener that's going, well.
**0:12:17** - (D): I didn't catch all that.
**0:12:18** - (Phil de Bella): Call the Queensland Small Business Commission office.
**0:12:21** - (D): Or jump on the website.
**0:12:22** - (Phil de Bella): What is the website details?
**0:12:23** - (Dominic Lamb): Yeah, so it's QSBC qld gov au. And look, you can come through to us or you come through to business Queensland. Either way, there are two hotlines available and they're answered by people who will.
**0:12:36** - (E): Connect you to where you need to go.
**0:12:38** - (Dominic Lamb): Alternatively, like I said, don't forget the councils because there is quite a lot of support coming out.
**0:12:43** - (Phil de Bella): Council has done some great stuff, like you're talking about the Morton Bay Council. So talk us through some of the stuff that's standing out that you're seeing out there that other parties are actually doing.
**0:12:50** - (Dominic Lamb): Yeah, so, look, we operate what's called the Small Business Friendly Charter, and that's where councils join on with the Queensland Small Business Commissioner, the chambers in their.
**0:12:58** - (E): Location, and then the state government, they.
**0:13:00** - (Dominic Lamb): All agree to help that region become more small business friendly and they commit to a whole raft of things. We have 45 of the 77 councils on board at the moment. It takes up about probably 80% of the small businesses across Queensland are in those particular locations, and there's about 473,000 small businesses in Queensland. So it's a big area. Morton Bay is absolutely a standout. There's no way around it. So they have everything from sort of awards programs to networking events.
**0:13:28** - (E): They've created an AI tool on their.
**0:13:31** - (Dominic Lamb): Website called Ask Morty, so you can actually put in your details.
**0:13:34** - (E): Ask.
**0:13:34** - (Dominic Lamb): It a whole raft of questions. It'll tell you about the data specific.
**0:13:37** - (E): To your cafe, your location in Morton.
**0:13:39** - (Dominic Lamb): Bay, all of those kinds of things. They also do a whole raft of sort of, as I said, supports grants. They're looking at kind of setting up their CBD and strip shop locations so that that foot traffic is there. So they're doing lots of sort of place making, creation of lots of different types of festivals to get people in there. We see that sort of on a large scale from Modern Bay, but then you go to somewhere like Winton that's now surveyed all their small businesses in town. They've also created a roadmap to commit to a whole raft of things. And in sometimes that's just we're going to provide you with a newsletter that shows you all the things that Council is doing.
**0:14:14** - (Dominic Lamb): They're also running workshops and training around things like grant writing or psychosocial hazards, which we know has just come out, we also see lots of different councils kind of focused on different things. So Sunshine Coast, for instance, has a.
**0:14:28** - (E): Great program, partnered with the Thompson Institute.
**0:14:31** - (Dominic Lamb): Around helping manage mental health of business owners, and they're running free courses to help you identify when people around you or businesses around you are struggling. And they work quite well in with their chambers to make sure that sort.
**0:14:43** - (E): Of that message is getting out across.
**0:14:45** - (Dominic Lamb): Wherever location they are. But, yeah, there's a lot of hubs, for instance, there's Co working space, you name it. They've sort of and I have to.
**0:14:52** - (Phil de Bella): Say, look, I find councils a lot more responsive and obviously, which I'm going to ask you the question in a minute, but is, where is the Queensland Government next step? Because I'm a big fan of the councils morton Bay Council, Brisbane City Council, you can really see the results of progressive thinking and collaboration with businesses. And I have to say, it's been lacking in Queensland Government for a while.
**0:15:12** - (Phil de Bella): Tell me, if we fast forward to the end of your tenure, what does success look like for Dominic Lamb and in the role of Commissioner?
**0:15:18** - (Dominic Lamb): That is such an interesting question. You asked me this a few months ago and look, it may have tweaked from there. Look, one of our biggest problems for the Queensland Small Business Commissioner and probably Queensland Government, is awareness creation. So when I started and said, what have you got on offer for small business? They gave me 63 double sided A three pages and went, Here you go.
**0:15:36** - (Phil de Bella): Right, a lot of noise.
**0:15:37** - (D): Right?
**0:15:37** - (Dominic Lamb): It's a lot of noise, but also a lot of really good stuff that people find hard to access. And so, for me, it's about creating more awareness. So, ideally, I want to see our core volumes increase and I want to see the number of people that we service increase.
**0:15:50** - (E): So I think we're sitting close to.
**0:15:52** - (Dominic Lamb): The 7000 mark in probably 18 months.
**0:15:54** - (E): Off the back of COVID But I'd.
**0:15:57** - (Dominic Lamb): Like to see more and I'd also like to see a variation in what we're helping them with, which we're starting to see now.
**0:16:02** - (E): So our rates around dispute resolution, business.
**0:16:05** - (Dominic Lamb): To business disputes, have actually doubled recently. It probably doesn't surprise you. And our call volumes for March were up by about 60%, so we want to see that sort of continue. I'd also like to see a whole hoop of reform happen in various different legislation in Queensland, because there's some unusual or different approaches to legislation here, especially around things like liquor licensing laws, even building and construction has its own challenges.
**0:16:30** - (E): And then even if you look at things like the Retail Leases Act, all.
**0:16:33** - (Dominic Lamb): Of those are about to come up for review. So we would hope that we'll make submissions sort of alongside industry to get a better outcome for small business so that they can operate.
**0:16:43** - (Phil de Bella): And that's a big one, isn't it? The reform and making sure and I love music.
**0:16:46** - (D): To my ears, it's all about collaboration.
**0:16:48** - (Dominic Lamb): Yeah.
**0:16:48** - (Phil de Bella): That's taking that to government. So, hey, when you do reform, can you please listen to the needs and requirements and the barometer and the pulse of what's going on in the industry?
**0:16:56** - (Dominic Lamb): And then the third thing is to expand that small business friendly program. So at the moment it is just councils, but I think that there is greater appetite for other large sort of government owned organizations to be part of that movement.
**0:17:09** - (E): Because I think that when we're dealing.
**0:17:11** - (Dominic Lamb): With or we talk about red tape, most small businesses can't tell you what it is, but they know it drives them nuts, right? And I think a lot of the time it is those government run organizations that could do a lot. Whether it's in that reg tech space.
**0:17:22** - (E): Whether it's in just making a path.
**0:17:25** - (Dominic Lamb): Simpler and like getting rid of some of the small steps that you have to make when they don't really make.
**0:17:29** - (E): Any difference, all of those things.
**0:17:32** - (D): Yeah.
**0:17:32** - (Phil de Bella): And there's a lot and I like.
**0:17:34** - (D): The way you say that there is a lot of red tape, but when.
**0:17:37** - (Phil de Bella): You ask people what exactly is it.
**0:17:39** - (D): That you want to get off?
**0:17:39** - (Phil de Bella): Is it the red tape or is it the legislation that comes out such as your 24 hours per week?
**0:17:44** - (D): Or is it the new psycho what's the technical term?
**0:17:46** - (Phil de Bella): Psychosocial regulation, psychosocial regulation laws?
**0:17:50** - (D): And is it the flexible workplace stuff.
**0:17:52** - (Phil de Bella): That they're bringing in? I mean, where does it stop? Where does it end? And I've been in business for 22.
**0:17:57** - (D): Years and I'm still learning and will always learn and I'm quite seasoned.
**0:18:00** - (Phil de Bella): So all I can say is, and I say this a lot when I'm.
**0:18:03** - (D): Running workshops and speaking to people, is.
**0:18:05** - (Phil de Bella): A lot of people have started business in the last ten years because people don't realize 50% of businesses don't mark the five year mark. So you'll find that about 75% of businesses out there start in the last ten years. They have never experienced tough times before. They didn't go through the GFC in 2008, 2010. A lot of the businesses that are out there have started in the last ten years, within the ten years, and they haven't, especially in hospitality. So there's a lot of stuff out there that's going on that people are.
**0:18:29** - (D): Unequipped with and that's what we wanted.
**0:18:30** - (Phil de Bella): To bring to light is obviously one. What the role of Queensland small business? Well, firstly, what the landscape of small.
**0:18:35** - (D): Business is, which we touched on what's.
**0:18:37** - (Phil de Bella): Available out there, which you've explained really well.
**0:18:39** - (D): And the third part is this people.
**0:18:41** - (Phil de Bella): Have just got to get on the bike and pedal, right? Because the alternative is to do nothing.
**0:18:45** - (D): And sink or you've got to get on that bike and pedal, then raises.
**0:18:48** - (Phil de Bella): That people are worn out. People have got a lot of mental.
**0:18:51** - (D): Health issues and anxiety creeping in.
**0:18:54** - (Phil de Bella): And, as you said, there's products available through your office for that as well. But I think the worst thing that somebody can do is do nothing. And I think that's a big part of your advocacy out there, is that rather than them coming to you, which is what a lot of other people.
**0:19:06** - (D): In your sort of roles do, you're.
**0:19:08** - (Phil de Bella): Actually going out to them. Because one of the problems we identified is that people are running out of time.
**0:19:13** - (D): They don't have the time, they're worn out and all the rest of it. So, of course, it might be a.
**0:19:17** - (Phil de Bella): Silly question, but everyone can expect to see a lot more of Dominic Lamb out and about with small business still, right?
**0:19:22** - (Dominic Lamb): That's absolutely, yeah. And that is the major part. I mean, we're a small team, right?
**0:19:26** - (D): So we've got our resources are limited.
**0:19:28** - (Dominic Lamb): Yeah. Right. So our business liaison offices are on the phone. The primary sort of obligation for us to make sure that you can get through to someone and have those conversations whenever it is. So then it leads our advocacy team to sort of get out and get out and go out there. We've just stood up for the first time, a principal engagement officer who has another person under her as well, plus myself, and then there are other people in that team that will go out and do that outreach.
**0:19:53** - (Dominic Lamb): But I think the thing is, the Queensland Government's just done a small Business.
**0:19:58** - (E): Impact study, I think, for the first.
**0:20:01** - (Dominic Lamb): Time since 2017, and they've also started surveying. So they are at the moment working on what kind of a small business.
**0:20:07** - (E): Strategy is going to look like.
**0:20:09** - (Dominic Lamb): We know that from talking to sort of the Griffith Tax Clinic, that if a business doesn't have myl or zero in their business, they're 80% more likely to be insolvent. And that the literacy of a small business owner, whilst higher in terms of financial literacy than most other parts of.
**0:20:25** - (E): Sort of the world, only sits at 40%.
**0:20:29** - (Dominic Lamb): So we know, as you say, when things get really hard, small business owners lean out. And all I can say is you've got to get the basics right. You've really got to make sure that you understand sort of what tax you've got to pay. What does that look like? If you can't pay it, all I can say is make sure that you go and enter into those payment plans. Make sure if you've got stuff, you're paying super, because super is the first one at the pointy end.
**0:20:53** - (Dominic Lamb): We will not be able to restructure you before insolvency. We will not be able to buy you more time. You've got to do those basic things.
**0:21:01** - (E): Otherwise life gets really, really hard.
**0:21:04** - (Dominic Lamb): It's not just about how many cups of coffee do I need to sell.
**0:21:06** - (E): To pay my rent, there are other costs about that.
**0:21:09** - (Dominic Lamb): And I just think how do you price?
**0:21:12** - (E): Like, obviously come and see the coffee commune and have those discussions about what.
**0:21:16** - (Dominic Lamb): Should I be pricing a cup of coffee? What does that look like? Where do I make more money on my margins? Is it in food, understand, where you can charge more and where you can't or where you can make savings that people aren't going to notice? Because it's those little things, consistent little things, that is likely to make sure that you survive. Right. And it is getting harder, there's no doubt.
**0:21:37** - (D): Yeah.
**0:21:37** - (Phil de Bella): And you've said it well. And the key takeaway out of that for the listeners is the first thing you need to make sure in order is your superannuation ATO will go after that even before they go after the tax.
**0:21:47** - (D): So it's a superannuation to unpack what.
**0:21:49** - (Phil de Bella): Dominic was saying, then getting into a payment plan. And I have to say that I haven't experienced this, but I know a.
**0:21:54** - (D): Lot of people that have.
**0:21:55** - (Phil de Bella): They've gone into tax payment installments and they're quite reasonable. The government's quite reasonable. If you're proactive, that's the key. If you're reactive and wait for the government to knock on your door, they're not going to be as favorable.
**0:22:05** - (D): But anyone that's told me stories that.
**0:22:07** - (Phil de Bella): They'Ve been proactive with their tax debt.
**0:22:09** - (D): And installments, the government's been very good.
**0:22:11** - (Phil de Bella): And again, this is not about government bashing. This is about calling a spade a spade. And where they're good, they're good. And when they're not good, we'll certainly tell them as well.
**0:22:17** - (Dominic Lamb): And you can do it on their website. Right. Like, it's a really simple process. And I just think make sure that you engage early. I know it's painful. No one wants to do their tax, no one gets into business to do that. But just make sure you engage early.
**0:22:30** - (Phil de Bella): Yeah, well, it works out better in the end. And as I say, there's only two things that are sure, dying and paying taxes. So no one's going to be immune to either of them. And the other one, as you said, is obviously the pricing of products. That's something that obviously put your CEO.
**0:22:43** - (D): Had on the old CEO head of National Retail Association.
**0:22:45** - (Phil de Bella): People get it so wrong. And I mean, I love analogies being.
**0:22:48** - (D): A strategist marketer brander. And I talk about, well, there's a.
**0:22:51** - (Phil de Bella): Reason why the Coles at New Farm is more expensive than the Coles out at gundawindi, and that's because of rent and the cost of paying their staff. It might be higher in a city.
**0:23:01** - (D): Versus out in a town.
**0:23:03** - (Phil de Bella): There's reasons why. So you wouldn't price a cup of coffee in a CBD. Brisbane the same as what you'd price.
**0:23:08** - (D): A cup of coffee out in the residential areas.
**0:23:10** - (Phil de Bella): But what we are finding is that you actually get more money per cup of coffee out in the residential areas in the suburbs than what you do.
**0:23:16** - (D): On the CBD because of competition.
**0:23:18** - (Phil de Bella): But yet it comes back. To the point that you've made is price your products and your services. Right. And you see that a lot, obviously going through Queensland of people not pricing stuff. Is there anything that stands out?
**0:23:28** - (Dominic Lamb): Look, I think that you're right about the saturation of market, particularly in cafes. Like there are a lot of them and people wake up in the middle of the night and obviously decide to go and open them. And then crazy people. Crazy people. Or we have zoning laws that say you've got to put restaurants or cafes at the bottom of residential buildings, which.
**0:23:44** - (E): Means you see them pop up everywhere.
**0:23:46** - (Dominic Lamb): I think that the big thing with being a small business is you've got to look at what products you are selling and what increases people will bear. You cannot increase your prices all the time.
**0:23:59** - (E): You can probably do it once a year.
**0:24:01** - (Dominic Lamb): The one thing you can control as a small business is that you have to provide the best quality to set yourself up from the standard from everybody else. But also customer service. Right. Like people are willing to pay if they have a wonderful experience regardless of the price of the product. And it's for you to manage that. You just can't afford to get it wrong. But because you don't have as many staff, you can quality control much better. And I think that's what sort of makes the difference. And that's kind of how you set yourself apart.
**0:24:30** - (Phil de Bella): Yeah, you may raise good points because.
**0:24:31** - (D): Customer service is out there.
**0:24:33** - (Phil de Bella): It's not prevalent. And I say to people, well, the time to shine is when everyone's not performing well. If everyone's performing well, it's hard to stand out. But there's so many places that have been focused and you can understand why. Right.
**0:24:42** - (D): They're mentally exhausted, but the service has dropped.
**0:24:45** - (Phil de Bella): So that gives the next door neighbor the opportunity to pick it up.
**0:24:47** - (D): And I use McDonald's as an example.
**0:24:49** - (Phil de Bella): They used to be the epitome of.
**0:24:50** - (D): Great service and great training.
**0:24:51** - (Phil de Bella): Good luck trying to get a please or a thank you out of anyone that serves you on McDonald's anymore because that's what's happened.
**0:24:56** - (D): That fatigue.
**0:24:57** - (Phil de Bella): And I think the standards is the problem and it just want to touch.
**0:25:00** - (D): On this, is that people's standards have dropped.
**0:25:02** - (Phil de Bella): And I'd love your opinion on this.
**0:25:04** - (D): But I say to my team, we.
**0:25:05** - (Phil de Bella): Better not be leveling down. I expect you guys to getting those non performers to level up. I think I see a lot of business out there that are happy to just level down. What would be your take on that landscape?
**0:25:15** - (Dominic Lamb): It's really interesting because in my experience at the moment, customer service in the regions is far better than it is in Brisbane. And whether that's because people are sort of so focused on whatever they need to be or wherever they need to be or whatever they need to do.
**0:25:29** - (E): As opposed to just taking the time.
**0:25:32** - (Dominic Lamb): To connect with people, it's hard to know. But time and time again, as soon as you sort of get out into the regions, whether it's Redlands or whether.
**0:25:41** - (E): It'S Sunshine Coast or if you just.
**0:25:44** - (Dominic Lamb): Keep going, the service is much better because people take the time. I think there's something about that connection and that sort of cure of loneliness when you are in customer service. I think it matters, I think it makes a difference, especially in your local.
**0:25:59** - (E): Communities and I see it as flow.
**0:26:02** - (Dominic Lamb): And effects and obviously this works a little bit easier when you're in a region.
**0:26:07** - (E): But it's the business owner that knows.
**0:26:09** - (Dominic Lamb): What'S happening at the local school, that's involved with council, that does the networking events, that gets out there and knows.
**0:26:15** - (E): That the restaurant down the road is.
**0:26:17** - (Dominic Lamb): Having a hard time or the hairdresser is doing really well or whatever it is. It's the person that's really engaged that sort of has their finger on the pulse. And I think what I'd say it as sort of small cafe owners is you can use your customers as data, right? Like they will often tell you what's happening out there and that will give you guidance on what you should be doing in your own business. If you don't take the time to.
**0:26:37** - (E): Have the conversations, whether it's with your.
**0:26:39** - (Dominic Lamb): Staff or with the people that's coming in and out of your business, then.
**0:26:42** - (E): You'Re missing out, right?
**0:26:44** - (Dominic Lamb): And that's the same in Brisbane, even where there is a lot more competition.
**0:26:48** - (E): Even where you might have kind of.
**0:26:50** - (Dominic Lamb): More foot traffic coming in on certain days. Take the time you knowing someone's name makes a huge difference as opposed to just no eye contact, getting their name wrong and shoving a coffee in their face kind of thing.
**0:27:02** - (Phil de Bella): Transaction, right? We talk about emotional engagement.
**0:27:04** - (D): What are you doing to emotionally engage with the audience and set it well.
**0:27:07** - (Phil de Bella): So let's bring us back to the regions and why they're doing well. To me, it's something that we've all lost and have to regain, which is sense of community, sense of supporting each other. I hear some great stories which I want to ask if you can share some of the stories that come to mind for you. But one of the great stories I.
**0:27:21** - (D): Know is friend of mine owns a wonderful place at Graceville Superior Fruit.
**0:27:25** - (Phil de Bella): And prior to COVID he's always getting tapped on the shoulder to hand out to the Little Johnny's Runway Fun Run and the Spellathon and the local soccer club and the football club and he's always giving, giving. Yet the giving is not always coming back because people are happy to go.
**0:27:38** - (D): And to warwoods and Coles for convenience through COVID.
**0:27:42** - (Phil de Bella): What he found is people remembered community and local and support your local.
**0:27:46** - (D): And that the person that is obviously.
**0:27:48** - (Phil de Bella): Supporting the local school and the local kids is the local business owner and.
**0:27:51** - (D): We should be supporting them, which is great.
**0:27:53** - (Phil de Bella): And to me, one of the wins out of COVID was to see people's.
**0:27:56** - (D): Habits go back to and I call.
**0:27:58** - (Phil de Bella): It conscious buying, because I did the same thing, started going back to the local butcher, the local fruit and veg.
**0:28:02** - (D): Shop, the local pharmacy to support local business.
**0:28:06** - (Phil de Bella): Tell us about some standouts from your perspective of what's working out there in.
**0:28:09** - (D): Terms of community and local support and all the rest of it.
**0:28:12** - (Dominic Lamb): Yeah, look, I think it's similar stories in terms of we know small business owners are the ones that give and they consistently sort of hit up to give, I think. And typically they are the ones that sort of band together. I think the best example when I think about sort of community and what that looks like is Makai. And funnily enough, if you'd visited Mackay.
**0:28:33** - (E): Maybe two years ago, their CBD was very quiet.
**0:28:38** - (Dominic Lamb): They were actively hosting sort of place making seminars with council, with all the business owners, with the chamber. Normally, when that happens, you go back and nothing's happened. Like, it's just a big talk fest and that sort of it.
**0:28:51** - (Phil de Bella): And I don't like a talk fest.
**0:28:52** - (Dominic Lamb): No one likes a talk fest. But these guys, it's not they did these guys really did actively try and engage with their landlords that had vacant lots. They really sort of got council on board and council started investing in terms of what the walking track looked like.
**0:29:07** - (E): Putting on more entertainment and things like.
**0:29:09** - (Dominic Lamb): That in those locations to get some of the foot traffic back up for those businesses. And then the businesses banded together and so they came together as a chamber to basically say, this is not going to happen on our watch. There's absolutely no way this is going to fail. And now they're getting kind of 150 to 200 people to their events, whether it's about education, whether it's just sort of getting them out and about talking to each other, that's huge.
**0:29:33** - (E): But then I also think about a.
**0:29:35** - (Dominic Lamb): Small business that was a cafe called Coddling Co. I don't know if you've ever come.
**0:29:39** - (E): Across Coddle and Co, but that was.
**0:29:41** - (Dominic Lamb): Sort of southeast Queensland. Had a bit of a difficult time, but during COVID absolutely struggled because there was lots of different changes, but would always take the time to sit down and talk to their customers. And Julie tells this story where she could see that there was something wrong with a particular customer. She took the time to sit down and sort of have a conversation and just sort of sit there for 15 minutes.
**0:30:03** - (Dominic Lamb): Went about a work, kept going, knew.
**0:30:05** - (E): Something was wrong, didn't really think about it.
**0:30:07** - (Dominic Lamb): The woman turned up two weeks later with a giant bunch of flowers and said, you saved my life that day. Like I was ready to sort of give up. And the difference was that connection. And I just think that's what small business does. That's the extreme. But it's the day to day interaction that I think for some of our older generation they don't get unless they go to their local news agent or they go to the coffee shop or they have the piece of cake or whatever it is, because it's that connection. And I think small businesses are underestimated and undervalued greatly.
**0:30:38** - (Phil de Bella): And I'm glad you said that because I championed that 100 times that a small business is undervalued and underappreciated. And so I say that sometimes you're going to be the pigeon, sometimes you're going to be the statue. But small business has been the bloody statue for while now and again. Why I love the fact that you're in the role that you're in is because I see how hard you work in getting out there and being that advocacy and trying to be part of the change you want to see and.
**0:30:59** - (D): With the reforms and getting people around.
**0:31:01** - (Phil de Bella): The table to listen.
**0:31:02** - (D): Which leads me to this.
**0:31:03** - (Phil de Bella): Is there anything you can share that you're working on that you think is going to help the industry that government's.
**0:31:08** - (D): Starting to listen to in terms of.
**0:31:09** - (Phil de Bella): Both state and federal?
**0:31:10** - (D): Because sometimes we sit there and just.
**0:31:12** - (Phil de Bella): Keep bashing our state government. But the federal government is been far.
**0:31:15** - (D): From impressive since they've come in.
**0:31:17** - (Phil de Bella): Everything that the Prime Minister said he.
**0:31:18** - (D): Was going to do, he hasn't done. And I make a point of not.
**0:31:20** - (Phil de Bella): Mentioning which side of government and all.
**0:31:21** - (D): The rest of it because it's irrelevant.
**0:31:23** - (Phil de Bella): It's not the side of government, it's.
**0:31:25** - (D): The person, just like it is.
**0:31:26** - (Phil de Bella): It doesn't matter about the authenticity of.
**0:31:28** - (D): Somebody running a company, whether Italian, Chinese.
**0:31:30** - (Phil de Bella): Japanese, Australian, Aboriginal, whatever they are. It's the caliber of person. And we have to go back to that with choosing our political leaders. And I just want to shove that.
**0:31:39** - (D): In of why I don't mention which.
**0:31:40** - (Phil de Bella): Side of politics and the rest of it. But our Prime Minister came in as a CEO, woodens told us what they're.
**0:31:45** - (D): Going to do in the role and.
**0:31:47** - (Phil de Bella): Has been very lackluster and has not delivered on anything that said they was.
**0:31:50** - (D): Going to do and in sometimes has.
**0:31:51** - (Phil de Bella): Actually gone the opposite. Again, don't want you to put you in an awkward position, but what is this things that are working on right now that is going to give us some sort of relief or put a smile on our face from a state and federal level?
**0:32:04** - (Dominic Lamb): So I think we start at the federal level. There has been some good things that have come out of the budget for small business, new things.
**0:32:11** - (E): So at the moment, if you look.
**0:32:13** - (Dominic Lamb): At the statistics around Cybercrime and Small business, queensland has the highest attack on small business at 39% and the minimum amount they lose is about $54,000 per attack. And it can be anything from like a fake invoice to malware on a phone. A lot of times, small businesses just don't even think that maybe their fossil machine could be compromised or whatever it could be right. But we know that the attacks are.
**0:32:35** - (E): There to the point even landlords are.
**0:32:37** - (Dominic Lamb): Coming to us and saying, what are you doing about it? So the federal government has just committed $23.6 million to cyber wardens to train small business about what to look for, how to prevent it, basically, especially with an Olympics coming, because we know that the targeting will be much higher.
**0:32:54** - (E): So that is a really good thing.
**0:32:55** - (Dominic Lamb): We've also seen a whole raft of sort of anti competitive behavior with large.
**0:32:59** - (E): Business and small business of late.
**0:33:01** - (Dominic Lamb): The ACCC have now just set up a specific small business hotline around that you can actually go and report anticompetitive.
**0:33:08** - (E): Behavior from those large chains and try.
**0:33:11** - (Dominic Lamb): And get a better outcome, which is really good. And then of course, there has been a whole raft of investment around things like electrifying a business. And so there are some set offs.
**0:33:19** - (E): There nothing that probably shoots a light.
**0:33:21** - (Dominic Lamb): Out in sense of your baseline costs, but they are some benefits. When you look at the state government at the moment they are working through that small business strategy. There's a budget that is about imminently, about to come out. I'm not really sure what's in that at this point in time.
**0:33:36** - (E): But I know that this small business.
**0:33:39** - (Dominic Lamb): Minister here, Dai Pharma, is very, very committed to getting tangible outcomes for small business. So I think you're likely to see an investment around the reduction of red tape as being one of those things. I think that there will definitely be a focus around how do you alleviate some of that cost of living pressure. The big problem is with some of.
**0:33:58** - (E): The grants is that you can give.
**0:34:00** - (Dominic Lamb): Out money, but it's not the answer. Right. I think that there will be more tangible things about teaching people how to fish, teaching them how to do it better. What that looks like yet, we're not sure because it's not in stone, but there's lots of definitely very positive intention there and we're sort of feeding into that. So we get consulted about all those things. We provide them with feedback about what.
**0:34:21** - (E): We hear, what we see from us.
**0:34:23** - (Dominic Lamb): One of the biggest problems is that small businesses don't necessarily understand a lease, what an option is. Where does my bond go? How do I get my bond back? How long does it take? We're creating a whole raft of materials around that which will be ready. We're also having them translated into the top four languages and into dynamic translations because we don't want anyone left behind. And we know we're missing whole groups across Queensland.
**0:34:46** - (Dominic Lamb): And then we have just commenced. We've just gone out to Tender to partner with a university around a behavioral study in small business. From entry sort of to exit, because we want to understand what makes them tick so that we can actually give them better services and do better advocacy.
**0:35:00** - (E): On their behalf, which will be really.
**0:35:02** - (Dominic Lamb): Interesting and telling, I would say. And then, of course, we are also creating some data reports, which means that everybody can access it, and then you'll be able to see what's sort of happening. There's some good stuff there, but in this current environment, some very large levers need to be pulled that are outside of your control, that are outside of our control.
**0:35:21** - (Phil de Bella): I don't want people sit there thinking, oh, you got the Queensland Small Business Commissioner, she's part of government. Well, no, she's a conduit. This is in between because there's some things there. I can't be sitting down to you and saying, well, government needs to stop their waste because you don't have any.
**0:35:32** - (D): Contact, you don't have any pull on that.
**0:35:34** - (Phil de Bella): You've explained very well and articulated by.
**0:35:36** - (D): What you do, especially the advocacy piece.
**0:35:38** - (Phil de Bella): And my biggest advice to listeners is.
**0:35:40** - (D): That you've got to be part of the change.
**0:35:42** - (Phil de Bella): As Gandhi says, you got to be part of the change.
**0:35:43** - (D): You want to see if you just sit back and keep being reactive.
**0:35:46** - (Phil de Bella): You need to contact the Office of the Queensland Small Business Commissioner.
**0:35:50** - (D): You need to be part of coming.
**0:35:51** - (Phil de Bella): To see you speak or workshops that.
**0:35:53** - (D): You give so that you can gather that feedback.
**0:35:55** - (Phil de Bella): Because again, you take that and it helps you with obviously passing it on.
**0:35:59** - (D): To all levels of government, local, state and federal.
**0:36:02** - (Phil de Bella): So you're that conduit, and listeners need.
**0:36:04** - (D): To understand that that is the role.
**0:36:05** - (Phil de Bella): Of Dominic Lamb is to be that.
**0:36:07** - (D): Conduit, to be out and about, listening.
**0:36:09** - (Phil de Bella): Getting a barometer and feel of what's.
**0:36:10** - (D): Happening and then taking that.
**0:36:11** - (Phil de Bella): Back to play the best part you can, knowing that you're not the decision maker. But you got to play that part.
**0:36:16** - (D): That you can to make change and reform.
**0:36:19** - (Dominic Lamb): And we do create sort of intel files, right? So the moment we have a spike in complaints around blue cards, for instance, and that means that's something that we.
**0:36:26** - (E): Then go and action advocacy about, same.
**0:36:28** - (Dominic Lamb): As the new laws around food safety that are coming through. That's another submission that the office is currently working on. So each time we have a spike in something, so recently we've had a whole raft of complaints from tenants about racist behavior of landlords in one particular location. That is also something that we then.
**0:36:48** - (E): Go and pursue by various different avenues.
**0:36:50** - (Dominic Lamb): And whether that's a Human Rights commission.
**0:36:52** - (E): Or whether or not that's the landlord, we do intervene.
**0:36:55** - (Dominic Lamb): So you're right, we just need to hear from you because it makes a difference.
**0:36:59** - (Phil de Bella): Yeah. So those of you and again, let's.
**0:37:01** - (D): Tell the listeners, how can they hear from you guys?
**0:37:04** - (Phil de Bella): Can you share a phone number?
**0:37:05** - (Dominic Lamb): And I can't think of it right now.
**0:37:08** - (Phil de Bella): That's right.
**0:37:08** - (Dominic Lamb): But get on the website, but I'll give it to you and you can put it up with that's, right?
**0:37:12** - (Phil de Bella): I'm sure, gilbert, I will find it.
**0:37:13** - (Dominic Lamb): Yeah, he'll find it and put it in there. But, yes, you can definitely give us a call or you can find us with QSBC or Queensland Small Business Commissioner.
**0:37:20** - (Phil de Bella): Yeah, fantastic. Dom, thank you for your time. It's always a pleasure. And the speed you're moving, we'll have.
**0:37:25** - (D): You back on the show later in.
**0:37:27** - (Phil de Bella): The year because you don't hang around.
**0:37:28** - (D): You do get things done and if.
**0:37:30** - (Phil de Bella): You have a look at what you've done already, it's it's great. But it is a big ship to.
**0:37:33** - (D): Turn, it is a big ship to.
**0:37:34** - (Phil de Bella): Maneuver and your resources are limited just like anybody else's.
**0:37:37** - (D): But the key takeaway for me is mindset, guys.
**0:37:40** - (Phil de Bella): The key takeaway is that you've got to be part of that change.
**0:37:42** - (D): There are resources there, you need to.
**0:37:45** - (Phil de Bella): Reach out and grab it. You've got to do the work. Dr. Joe Dispenser, which is one of.
**0:37:48** - (D): My heroes that I talk about, says.
**0:37:50** - (Phil de Bella): You'Ve got to do the work.
**0:37:51** - (D): You can provide the river, but if.
**0:37:53** - (Phil de Bella): The person doesn't jump in the river.
**0:37:54** - (D): And swim, well, there's no point of the river. So get out there. There's a whole heap of stuff to help.
**0:37:59** - (Phil de Bella): We've touched on the landscape and we'll.
**0:38:01** - (D): Be exploring it over the episodes that get released.
**0:38:04** - (Phil de Bella): A lot of what Dominic was talking about and ways that the Coffee Commune.
**0:38:07** - (D): Can help you in those areas.
**0:38:10** - (Phil de Bella): Next up, we'll have Kelly Manyardis, who's an organizational psychologist.
**0:38:13** - (D): We're going to have her on the show talking about Mindset matters and she'll.
**0:38:16** - (Phil de Bella): Be covering and exploring a lot of.
**0:38:18** - (D): The stuff that Dominic, that you've raised today. And then after that, we've got Alan.
**0:38:21** - (Phil de Bella): Bonsa, who'll be talking about standing out from a crowd. And you touched on that as well.
**0:38:25** - (D): How do you stand out in a.
**0:38:27** - (Phil de Bella): Crowd, especially in the CBD?
**0:38:28** - (D): The regionals are doing it quite well.
**0:38:29** - (Phil de Bella): So that's what's coming.
**0:38:31** - (D): So you've opened up the show beautifully. You've set a beautiful landscape for us.
**0:38:35** - (Phil de Bella): And it'll flow nicely down to Kelly, who'll be about mindset matters, and then on to Alan Bonsel. The episode after that about standing out from the crowd. Until next time, Dom, thank you. Travel safe.
**0:38:45** - (Dominic Lamb): Thank you. It's been a pleasure.
**0:38:47** - (Phil de Bella): Don't forget to look after yourself and your family as well. We don't need you burning out. Congratulations on what you've done so far. And until next time, this has been Phil de Bello with Dominic Lamb. I'm the founder and managing director of The Coffee Commune, where we're all about accelerating your potential. Tomorrow better than today. That's a wrap for today. Keep listening for more episodes of Being There and Done that.
**0:39:10** - (Phil de Bella): The Coffee Commune is here to help accelerate your potential. We want you to be better tomorrow than today. Until next time, you've been listening, Phil de Bella. I'm the founder and managing director of The Coffee Commune, a place where the coffee. Community comes to collaborate.
**0:39:35** - (Dominic Lamb): Ram close.