What can we learn from the Islamic call to prayer?

Often travel and experiencing other cultures can teach us about our own lives and beliefs. Today we explore Zanita's trip to Morocco and what it taught her about prayer and faith and of course, we get practical! Are we intentional enough about our spiritual disciplines? Can we find intentionality in ritual? Is the meaning behind the ritual as important as the practice of it?  #RecordLive Wednesdays 4pm, podcast Friday mornings.

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Record Live is a conversation about life, spirituality and following Jesus in the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

What can we learn from the Islamic call to prayer_
Jarrod Stackelroth: [00:00:00] Hi there, everyone. I'm Jared.
Zanita Fletcher: And I'm Zenita.
Jarrod Stackelroth: We are your hosts of Record Live, a podcast where we talk about church, faith, and living well.
Zanita Fletcher: We believe as followers of Jesus, faith is more than just a set of beliefs. It's a way of life, something we put into practice.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Let's go live.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Zanita.
Zanita Fletcher: Jared.
Jarrod Stackelroth: It's that time of week again,
Jarrod Stackelroth: our favorite time of week, Record Live, where we get to have interesting conversations about faith and life and church. I love it.
Zanita Fletcher: It's pretty good. And today we are talking to you about one of your articles.
Jarrod Stackelroth: No. Don't flip the script on me now. We're talking to you, Zenita, about an experience that you [00:01:00] recently had, a travel experience.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Now, I've noticed in my life that travel is very eye opening. It gets me to think about Old things in new ways,. And it gets me to experience new things that add, knowledge and wisdom and ideas and experience to myself. So often find myself like with problems that I've been working on for ages in my mind and not necessarily being able to get through, but when I'm traveling or when I have that, that different, space, I'm able to work through challenges in a different way.
Jarrod Stackelroth: So,, You've written something about some travels that you've had. First, I want to know where you went and what the experience was like. I think many of us may be listening, watching, at any point, this broadcast may not have experienced, going to the place that , you traveled to. And so just tell us what it's like a little bit, set the scene for us.
Zanita Fletcher: [00:02:00] Yeah, so it wasn't super recent, it was probably almost a year ago, a little less now, but , my family were on a massive trip through the Middle East, and kind of like the Biblelands areas, and they were going to Morocco for like their last stop, so they invited me along for the last few weeks. , of their time in Morocco, which I'm also Morocco's was never at the top of my list to go, but I was like, Oh, this will be a cool experience like to go away with mom and dad.
Zanita Fletcher: , so I'm really glad I went for that reason, but I feel like when people go overseas, they're like. This was the best place ever. You got to go. Morocco for me was honestly one of those places where I was like, it's all right. Like not my favorite place, but it is still really interesting. And I think everywhere you go, even if it's not your favorite place, like you can still really learn from other cultures and just from how other people live their lives in such different, ways.
Zanita Fletcher: , and so yeah, Morocco was just,, an interesting place to observe. It was interesting, , just to see like how they live because they do live very different [00:03:00] to us. , and, it was just interesting to observe and to interact with the people and just hear their opinions of like their own culture and the way in which their people live.
Zanita Fletcher: So., I guess the trip was wedged between a few other events. That's why I've written it now, because I've just been continuing to ponder on things from that trip and there's been things after that have made me think about it more. So that's why it's come out a bit later.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Tell me about , the sights, the sounds, the smells, like what is Morocco like? Cause I've never been there and I'm assuming many people have not. Tell us a little bit about it. Set the scene for us.
Zanita Fletcher: Yeah, it is. Like it depends which region you're in, but typically it is quite colorful. , there are a lot of like spices and herbs like that.
Zanita Fletcher: There's always like a museum or a main part of the town, which is what you typically see in the photos, like all the mazes of shops and things. , and you'll see donkeys everywhere, just walking around the streets and stuff. And I guess this is one thing that's not. specific [00:04:00] to Morocco, but you do hear a lot of prayer calls, which I've heard prayer calls also in countries like India and Turkey have a lot of them.
Zanita Fletcher: , Yeah, there's various places that have the prayer call, which happens five times a day, I believe. , and so that's something that I actually really love whenever I'm in those countries that has it. Some people find it disturbing and some people will look for a combination that is , far away from a mosque, so it doesn't disrupt them or wake them up.
Zanita Fletcher: But I think it's such a beautiful thing to have this like call over the city. And I think because it's in another language as well, it just makes it all , to me, it just sounds really beautiful. Like I quite like listening to foreign music. So the call, the call to prayer was like a really cool thing to hear.
Zanita Fletcher: And just to be like, it is so busy in a lot of the cities, like everyone's rushing around, like they'll have baskets on their head full of, , Pomegranates or I'll be carrying like chickens around, like a dozen chickens in both hands or something. So there's like heaps happening in Morocco. Like it is just like, , and so I think the prayer call is, I like it because it's one of those [00:05:00] things that kind of makes you stop.
Zanita Fletcher: It's almost like when we're in Australia and we hear, or when we're in any country and we hear the national anthem, everyone just pauses and we'll sing kind of thing. And so I think the prayer call is awesome in those places where things are so busy. Cause it's , Oh. Let's just stop and , maybe even though people don't all participate, a lot of the city will slow down in that moment.
Jarrod Stackelroth: So it like almost cuts through the noise in a sense. Many cities are busy and I guess, , crazy chaotic. , What's different for you in your experience in, say, a , predominantly Muslim country like Morocco, as opposed to a country that's not Muslim, but still chaotic and crazy. Did you notice any differences other than the prayer calls?
Jarrod Stackelroth: Is there any different sort of things happening?
Zanita Fletcher: I'm just gonna, say this first. I feel like men and women have a very different experience when they go to Morocco.
Zanita Fletcher: So I often hear [00:06:00] men saying that they love Morocco and that they thought it was like really welcoming. , but women, I feel like often have a different experience. Like they're not as valued in the society still. , so I even noticed when like my dad would be walking ahead and I would be walking behind, like they would, they would greet him and they'd be really kind, but then it's like for women.
Zanita Fletcher: They're not really in society as much. So you mostly see like men running the stalls and men running the shops and men doing the work women, you don't really see as much, obviously you see them around, but not as much. They're I guess, still probably in the traditional roles. So I guess that's a bit different is like.
Zanita Fletcher: Men and women here in Australia are still like a pretty equal now. Like we've got to this point where you see both around as much as the other, they're both doing the same kind of jobs. I would imagine if someone came to Australia, that would be treated pretty well the same by both males and females.
Zanita Fletcher: , but. Yeah, so I guess that's something that's a bit different as well. Just the, I guess the gender differences. , and then obviously like the food [00:07:00] is very different. Like they pretty simple kind of foods. Their, packaging food is obviously more of a thing now that they've got access to it, but I feel like their food is mostly, we were talking to someone on the train and she was saying like the Moroccan food we think of.
Zanita Fletcher: With all of these like extravagant flavors and colors isn't really Moroccan food. Like their food is pretty simple. It's like your couscous, your boiled vegetables, maybe a couple of spices, but it's pretty simple stuff, , which is kind of interesting. But all of that colorful stuff was brought in when tourists started coming because they wanted to impress.
Zanita Fletcher: Otherwise they were like, well, people aren't going to come to Morocco unless we have like exciting things to offer. , and they started importing. And then tourists started being like, wow,
Jarrod Stackelroth: Interesting. So your article was,, inspired by these calls to prayer. And I guess it helped you to learn something about prayer , or reflect on your own faith in a sense. So let's start with that , what stood out to [00:08:00] you most about these prayer calls? You've already mentioned that it sort of cuts through.
Jarrod Stackelroth: , but just tell us a little bit about the. the calls themselves and how, , people react and respond. Cause in your article, you describe a few different responses.
Zanita Fletcher: Yes. So my mum and I actually noticed one morning that, , the prayer call, the first prayer call of the day was very repetitive. , so it was only repeating like a few, like one sentence over and over.
Zanita Fletcher: Whereas the other ones, it wasn't so much like that. It sounded like. almost like a poem. The one in the morning, , basically just repeats praying is better than sleeping. Praying is better than sleeping over and over and over again. And it kind of encourages them, , to get out of bed and to pray. Now I'm sure not everyone is like enthusiastic that is partaking in these prayers about that.
Zanita Fletcher: Some are probably like. Do I have to, or some probably just turn over, , I'm sure that happens. But, , I was talking to one of the locals in Morocco about these [00:09:00] prayer calls and she, , didn't partake in them. And she was like, oh, it's just what they do. Like it's, it doesn't really matter. She was pretty like blase about it.
Zanita Fletcher: , even though she is a Moroccan and, , But then you see other people and you hear other people talk about it and they're so passionate about it and for them it's like the best thing ever and they're so committed to it and so it's just this like different perspective and you also see tourists who are like this is beautiful and then you see tourists who are like this is so annoying and they put in their earplugs or whatever and so I think I was just reflecting I've had a friend and I might have mentioned this in one of our podcasts recently.
Zanita Fletcher: I've had a friend recently,, take an interest in God. And she's been going to all these different churches. And she's had a lot of people when she's told them that she's going to one Adventist church, when she's told them that they've been like, Oh, be careful. Like, they're very, , hard on their rules.
Zanita Fletcher: They're like the Pharisees. If you don't do what they believe, then they'll kick you out kind of thing. Like she's had a lot of, Harsh [00:10:00] opinions on the Adventist church, which I think is just interesting because you and I would probably say, Oh, the things that we do that make us unique, like we think they're really beautiful, but we probably also know people who.
Zanita Fletcher: are quite judgmental about them or who enforce them or who judge people quite harshly. And so it's understandable then why some people are like, oh, that's just what they do. Or, oh, you don't really need to do that. , you don't need to go to the mosque five times a day. But some people, that might be what's expected of them.
Zanita Fletcher: Or some people, they might be judged if they don't. And so I think it's, I was just reflecting on the way in which we do things. Like we can have these beautiful things, but they can be tarnished if we do them with the wrong posture or with the wrong heart, or if we do them in a way that makes it look like it's a chore.
Zanita Fletcher: , and so I guess that's what I was reflecting on in that article.
Jarrod Stackelroth: It's interesting. I think as Christians, we [00:11:00] face the same challenge. Prayer is better than sleeping. That phrase sort of does stick out because it's like, you can set an alarm as a Christian, which will wake you up to do your devotion time, your prayer or Bible reading or whatever.
Jarrod Stackelroth: And it's very hard sometimes, especially in different seasons of life. I've got really young kids that are often, Up in the night or restless or sick. And so then when it comes to getting up in the morning to do something like this, it's like, Oh my goodness, it's so hard, but , that's a challenge in and of itself.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Just that phrase. It, I was thinking when you were saying it's repetitive, it goes over and over. I was thinking of an alarm clock. It's just incessant,, it's the people's alarm clock, but instead of just a mindless droning sort of noise, it's actually a reminder or a,. It's a principle,, there's a principle in that phrase, prayer is better than sleeping, that I guess, if you're used to it, you probably don't think about very much, but if it's new and fresh, it's like, Oh, hang on.
Jarrod Stackelroth: That pauses [00:12:00] me to think for a minute. Is prayer better than sleeping?
Zanita Fletcher: Are you genuinely asking me that?
Jarrod Stackelroth: I think so, yeah.
Zanita Fletcher: Is prayer better than sleeping? I think sleep we understand is pretty important. Like I think the science is showing more and more that we need sleep. , and , I think this is like a balance thing because it's like on one hand, God has told us to do things and. He wants us to be obedient to those things.
Zanita Fletcher: And there's definitely benefits to like just sticking something out, even when you don't fully understand it. On the other hand, I think when we get in that, when they become like habits that we just monotonously do, and we don't really think about them, like they just become our norm, then I think sometimes we can lose, We can miss the point of it.
Zanita Fletcher: I think there's an example of this in the Bible where, , the Pharisees are saying, , we did this and we kept the laws and Jesus is like, woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, , you tithe your mint and dealing with cumin, but you've neglected the matters of the law, [00:13:00] which is justice and mercy and faithfulness.
Zanita Fletcher: So you see your people who , don't miss a Sabbath. And I think that's on one hand really great, but then you see them carrying it out in this way of that person keeps the Sabbath and you see them live,, in this way that doesn't look very, like they don't have a, they don't have a spirit of like restfulness to them.
Zanita Fletcher: If anything, they've got like a spirit of anger and judgmentalism or , they can come across as like quite harsh,. And so. I guess we do want to do things that God tells us to, but I think we also want to just often take the time to step back and reflect on why are we doing this?
Zanita Fletcher: And , are we doing this in the way that he intended us to do this?
Jarrod Stackelroth: This is such a challenging conversation because, no, because, , I think generationally we often react against or respond to what our parents did or what our grandparents made us do. And so, for example, It might've been [00:14:00] rigid, religious Sabbath keeping or certain times of prayer.
Jarrod Stackelroth: I imagine in Islamic society,, there's people that are like five times a day. You've got to stop. You've got lots of rules around that experience. And so it's easy to throw out the baby with the bathwater then and to take, What Jesus is saying there and go, well, I don't need to fast anymore.
Jarrod Stackelroth: You know, we had the conversation about fasting a month or two ago. , yeah, maybe I don't need to pray because it's not about the time I spend or how often I do it, but it's just about having a good relationship. But I think the intention behind some of these rituals, and I'll be interested to hear your take on this, but when is it that actually mindlessly doing the rituals actually leads to faithfulness actually does.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Sustain and bolster our faith where we could lose our faith if we actually lost the ritual or the practice of it. , do you know what I'm saying? Like, , maybe the habit of Sabbath attendance. We don't always feel like [00:15:00] being at church on Sabbath, but actually doing it and sticking it out.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Maybe sets it an example for our children that church is important or has unexpected things that go with it. So I'm interested in that interplay between practical faith, living it out, getting something out of it., I'm reading my Bible to get something out of it. I'm reading my Bible to pray.
Jarrod Stackelroth: I'm praying to hear from God. I'm praying to have an experience with God. And yet I know from my own life, there's seasons where I don't hear from God. God feels far away. The Bible's not making any sense. Is there value in sticking it out and giving myself a set time each day and making myself do it because the ritual is the thing that keeps me, , we had an article recently about,, I don't keep the Sabbath.
Jarrod Stackelroth: The Sabbath keeps me was ,, the thesis statement, the end result, like. This guy was like, yeah, Sabbath is hard sometimes, but actually the Sabbath is what keeps me sane. So yeah, I'm [00:16:00] interested in that interplay between ritual, , five times a day, you've got to pray and how helpful that can be in actually passing on traditions, passing on faith to generations, keeping us connected to the faith when we're in our low points in time.
Zanita Fletcher: Yeah, sure. Yeah. Yeah. I guess I would say I'm not. Suggesting that people stop doing these things, , because it's not having a benefit or because they're doing it with the wrong heart or because they're becoming bored of it. , I think, like you said, it's,, like God has asked us to do some of these things.
Zanita Fletcher: Because we trust that he knows best and that there's like deeper wisdom than we understand. , I think what I am mainly talking about is like becoming a bit more tuned of , like looking at the things that we do., for example, things that set us apart as Adventists in terms of like our practices is , obviously the Sabbath, , our health message.
Zanita Fletcher: sets us [00:17:00] apart. , there's a bunch of things like, , prayer doesn't really, isn't really exclusive to Adventists, obviously, but, ,there's a number of things like that, I guess we do that other denominations don't do. , and even the things that other denominations do do, I guess it's just like looking at those things and being like, , if I'm not really feeling like this, if there's tension here between me waking up and praying in the morning or me waking up and reading the Bible, like, why is that?
Zanita Fletcher: Like, why am I not wanting to do this? And asking yourself those questions, or why am I reading the Bible? Or why do I keep this up? , what, what was it meant for? Like, why did God create this? And I think sometimes in the church, there's like very rigid ways of doing things. So for example, An hour in the morning, , opening our bibles, and then, Saturday, we wake up, we go to Sabbath school, we go to church, , that's kind of, how it's done.
Zanita Fletcher: And so, I think sometimes, for example, , I'm not suggesting people just don't go to church, but sometimes,, On a Saturday, what might be [00:18:00] restful for you is to actually like, not go into community and to take time in solitude or to like, do something that really will help you grow closer to God, not just you like, ticking the boxes because you feel like, oh, I should do this because this is what's expected of me and this is what everyone else is doing.
Zanita Fletcher: , And it's the same with, , other things, like, the way in which you spend time with God doesn't just have to look like opening your Bible and sitting down and, reading the lesson plan. It can look like a million different things, but we're all so different that, , we're all going to gravitate towards certain things, or certain things are going to help you that, , aren't going to be super helpful for me in my connecting with God.
Zanita Fletcher: And so, , I think like sticking to these disciplines is still important and like still carrying them out. , but I think just like changing the way in which we practice them or go about them or reminding ourselves of why we do them is super important.
Jarrod Stackelroth: What I'm hearing you say is about , I guess behind the meaning and the [00:19:00] intentionality, like rather than mindlessly doing something, understanding why it's just, it's happening, if there's tension there, if you're like, I don't know why I'm doing this, rather than getting resentful or just stopping doing it because you don't feel like it's useful, maybe understanding more.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Is that, is that what you're saying?
Zanita Fletcher: That's exactly what I'm saying.
Jarrod Stackelroth: A good, a good thought. , so the praying five times a day thing. Like, do you think that, are there any principles there that could help us, as Adventists? Because I've sometimes in some seasons of my life, I feel, feel that it's hard to pray.
Jarrod Stackelroth: , would a regularity to prayer be more. Or stopping and, you know, that call to prayer. , Daniel, it says prayed three times a day at his window in, in that story. And Daniel, , what do you think?
Zanita Fletcher: Yeah, I think it's, , I think if there was [00:20:00] anything I was going to bring back from my travels, I would love to bring the prayer call to Australia.
Zanita Fletcher: , not necessarily,, in force that we all, Leave our workplaces and go to the nearest church or mosque five times a day. But I think it's awesome that they have this call blast over the entire city. , that reminds people to just pause and to pray. And it just gives opportunities for like us to , remember our place in the world, to remember that we have a creator to be grateful, to pray for others.
Zanita Fletcher: There's all sorts of different things that we can go to prayer about and I think so often for us we just get caught up with our to do lists and we don't have that like blasting call over city that like kind of brings you back and reminds you of what's important and So, I don't know, , I guess it would be interesting to , trial, Hey Jared, why don't you set an alarm five times a day?
Zanita Fletcher: To just like, remind [00:21:00] you to, I don't think that's a bad thing, but again, I think it depends on your intentionality and your posture, but I think you would probably say, Oh, I do want to be praying more for these things, and I do want to be thinking about what I'm grateful for more, and I do want to be praying more for others.
Zanita Fletcher: , and so setting alarm could be helpful. I know someone else, he has like a notepad in his shirt pocket. It's just one of those little tiny ones. And he just writes down, , people's names who need prayer, like whatever is going on in their lives. He'll just like, , write in this thing.
Zanita Fletcher: And then he, instead, he's gotten into the habit instead of when he's in the checkout line, instead of grabbing his phone, he'll just grab this list in his pocket and he'll in his, . mind just silently pray for them or instead of just like reaching for your device because we do that so many times a day he'll often just pull out that because he's got a spare five minutes and He's just I guess gotten to the point where he's like This is more important than like me scrolling on Instagram or whatever it is.
Zanita Fletcher: So [00:22:00] let's bring in the prayer call I think it would be interesting Be a benefit.
Jarrod Stackelroth: An interesting idea, set an alarm five times a day. What I was thinking you were going to say is let's grab the nearest Adventist church, install some loudspeakers and play, we have this hope out across the neighborhood five times a day.
Jarrod Stackelroth: So we often ask the question, what can we practically take away from this conversation, Zanita? You've given us an example like, hey, maybe do your five times a day prayer. Is there any other principles that we can take with us this week? , we're not in a society that reminds us to pray. , And in many ways, we're all part of, , a faith that has certain rituals, but many of those rituals are declining or diminishing.
Jarrod Stackelroth: There's studies on family worships [00:23:00] starting to not happen in most households. Many people are no longer studying the Sabbath school lesson and not to judge that, but I'm just saying our rituals are somewhat declining statistically. We're seeing that. So what kind of practical ideas could we take away from this conversation?
Jarrod Stackelroth: Should we be developing or designing new rituals that fit our modern lives that will give us, this anchor point?
Zanita Fletcher: I like the word that you said before, which was intentional. , I think most people listening to this will probably be Adventist, , or Christian or something like that. And I think we probably all already have like Christian practices in our lives, or we at least know of them.
Zanita Fletcher: , and so I think. Something that would be like helpful for people is to just be like, Oh, what are the things that I'm doing that I'm not really, I'm not [00:24:00] enjoying or that I'm finding really difficult or that I keep procrastinating on or that I've just dropped because I don't even know why and just look at those things and , remind yourselves of why, why you ever did them or remind yourself of why God created them.
Zanita Fletcher: , and come back to , that reason, like the why, because I think that's really important. I think when we forget that, why that's often when it becomes like a bit of a drag. , and so I think I was listening to, , Maryellen, our previous cohost on, I think it was the podcast we did radio about the Sabbath.
Zanita Fletcher: And she was saying whenever she starts to feel that way about the Sabbath, she will just start like reading books about it, listening to podcasts about it. And it will kind of reignite her passion and it'll remind her of why she started doing that in the first place. , but yeah, I think just like a good thing for people to do is just to start like asking themselves those questions.
Zanita Fletcher: And then, It's like asking other [00:25:00] people, Oh, how do you do this? Or do you like just having those conversations about these different things that we do? , it's probably a good, simple starting point.
Jarrod Stackelroth: I like it. Let's be more intentional this week about how we live out our faith and how we incorporate that into our everyday life.
Jarrod Stackelroth: , the other thing for me, I guess the take out is, , It is everyday life there. It happens every day. It happens five times a day. You can't escape it. The call goes out throughout the city, , and you hear it wherever you are. So it's really incorporated into their everyday life. So maybe, , some of our rituals and some of our, , things could be much more a mainstream part of our lives as Christians in the world that we live.
Jarrod Stackelroth: Hey Zenita, thanks for sharing some of your experiences today. Some thought provoking ideas. That you've left us with and
Jarrod Stackelroth: we will see everyone again next week. God bless.
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