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The Laws of War and Peace with Rav Shlomo Katz is a series based on Hilchos Milchamah VeShalom by Rav Shmuel Eliyahu, opening up the Torah of מלחמה ושלום for the times we are living in right now.
In these episodes, Rav Shlomo explores the halachic, biblical, and inner spiritual foundations of war, courage, national responsibility, emunah, and redemption. Through the lens of Tanach, Chazal, and the living reality of Am Yisrael, this series asks: How is a Jew meant to think, feel, pray, and act in a time of מלחמה? What does true gevurah look like? How do we fight evil without losing humility? And how do war, mesirus nefesh, and miracles become part of the unfolding geulah?
Chodesh Sivan is sponsored by the Silvers le-ilui nishmat באסי פייגיל בת ישראל, anonymously in memory of all the holy chayalim that gave their lives and the ones who are working tirelessly to protect us in Eretz Hakodesh, by the Vizels for the Refuah Shleimah of עטל שרה בת חנה, יעקב שלמה בן ביילא, Zivug Hagun for Esther bas Rochel, by the Miller family in memory of Yael's Abba Rabbi Aby Warhaftig, by the Finns for the Nitzachon for Am Yisrael and for the Refuah Shleimah of the chayalim hapitzuim דוד נתנאל בן איילה אהובה, Eliyahu ben Chava, רואי חיים בן מרב, David ben Ziv, and אברהם בן יעקב דבורה פייגא. The week is sponsored by Michael and Cindy Levy in memory of Michael's father יוסף בן דב בער הלוי and by Ariela and Melech Britz in memory of אברהם אשר בן איתמר יפת and all the holy chayalim as they continue strength, protection, and success in their service. Amen. Amen.
Okay. The pages for today. Okay. Whoever needs a page, I have them up here.
And we are on page 76. Now on page 76, this is a little bit of a I want to just say something before we move forward in this learning because what we're learning is very, it's not that it's controversial, it just flares, it touches upon such a sensitive chord and therefore after last week's shiur on this, I got so much feedback that was hard to digest. It wasn't simple because like I say, we're touching upon mamash the most sensitive places in Am Yisrael right now where we're at today. Obviously in regards to the drafting Yeshiva Bachurim and as we see, there doesn't seem that there's any light, it seems like there's no light in sight regarding how to deal with this issue.
And even saying those words right now are triggers for people because I hear in my mind people saying, what do you mean there's no light? There's light. Everyone has to get drafted. We're in a war. Everyone has to get drafted.
And the other voice in me is saying, what are you talking about? Can you imagine if there was no Talmud Torah in Am Yisrael? It's something that really has been in the works for years and years and years. It's not a new inyan. This has been from the founding of the state and Ben-Gurion's decision how to relate to this from the founding of the State of Israel has caused it to be a very, very sensitive subject, very difficult to take. So what we're doing in this shiur is we are not trying to convince the convinced and we're not trying to persuade anyone.
We're here to learn Torah. We're here to just learn from the mekorot how to approach such a sensitive topic as the draft. Uvifrat that we're in a zman of a milchama. There was the Six-Day War, there was the Forty-Day War, there was the Twelve-Day War, this week we had the one-day war, 17 hours, 12 hours, 12-hour war, 17-hour war.
Whatever you want to call it, it's all on Shabbos. This coming Shabbos we're going to talk about it much more in depth, what are all these things, Be'ezrat Hashem this coming Shabbos. But we must learn Torah. Our inyan is not to act based on just what we feel.
We have to learn inside, we have to learn Torah. We have to learn what is actually brought down by our sages in order to really bring true light to the world and clarity to the world and love and love, which is all about love, mamash kach. So, does anyone need a page? Are there any more pages left? We're all taken. Okay.
So let's just, if you can, look in with someone. I'm going to do a quick, quick recap of what we began last week where we started speaking about the beginning of this chapter, the counting of Am Yisrael. Who's a yotzei tzava? Who's someone that's counted to go out to war?
מבן עשרים שנה ומעלה. Shevet Levi's counted from a month old.
From here we understand already from the beginning that Shevet Levi has a different sugya. That's what we started speaking about. And what is Shevet Levi? What does the Rambam say at the end of הלכות שמיטה ויובל? Shevet Levi were separated to serve Hashem, to teach His Torah, and therefore they are separated from the way that everyone else is counted. And about them it says, Barech Hashem Cheilo.
They are a different chayil. Chayil usually means warriors. It's a different type of a warrior, the one that... serving, the one that's teaching, the one that has to play niggunim.
Their inyan is different. That's what we learned last time. But now, and we ended off by we ended off something that sparked everyone. I'm going to try today to not say anything too wild, but you know won't happen because it will be because ein ma la'asot.
Not wild, it's just we're talking about the most sensitive things in the world. We did mention that one of the chief rabbis in the beginning of the war said all, all Yeshiva students, they are Shevet Levi. And that's what sparked the whole country on fire. And I'm not here right now, I never here to chalila chas veshalom belittle, bash, contradict what anyone says.
I want to just learn, learn it inside. And it's heavy. So you see obviously it's weighing very heavy on me because we have a lot of people learning with us and everyone is looking for direction, everyone's looking for... well, I'll say it like this: there are those that are looking for direction.
There are. Not everyone is so convinced and convicted with their own feeling. I just want to give us a bracha of siyata dishmaya that we should be mechaven to the emes. Like the tefilla that you say before you go into beis medrash, the tefilla you say when you leave a beis medrash, there shouldn't be a takala bedvareinu.
We shouldn't chas veshalom have a takala. How do you say takala? Malfunction. Huh? Disruption? Yeah, malfunction. There shouldn't be any malfunctions in the way that we're in our learning.
So now, page 76, דינם של בחורי ישיבות. In the next halacha in the Rambam, the Rambam writes like this: ולא שבט לוי בלבד. It's not just Shevet Levi. Now this is, this is a very complicated sugya.
It's not just Shevet Levi are different.
אלא כל איש ואיש מכל באי העולם אשר נדבה רוחו אותו, any person from the world, אשר נדבה רוחו אותו, his spirit took him to another place, והבינו מדעו להיבדל לעמוד לפני השם לשרתו ולעבדו לדעת השם, and he was separated in order to serve to act as full service of serving Hakadosh Baruch Hu, vehalach yashar, and he's אנשי ישרי לב שמחה. He's, he's just a yashrus. He has yashrus in him.
Kemo she'asah elohim. He's basically staying very much in line with the way that Hashem created him yashar. We're not talking about a person that... my I was not like that and most of my friends, people I hung out with, did not fall into this category.
I don't think, I think most of us in here were gevalt, but I don't think we're like these you know tamim pure, I have nothing to do with the world type of people.
פרק מעל צוארו עול החשבונות הרבים אשר בקשו בני האדם. He did not... it's a type of person that wasn't ever consumed with competition.
He wasn't consumed with money. He wasn't bothered. He wasn't lo hitasek bidvarim. He didn't get into business.
They didn't get into cheshbonos.
הרי זה נתקדש קדש קדשים. He's basically sanctified as the holy of holies.
ויהי השם חלקו ונחלתו לעולם ולעולמי עולמים.
His nachala, his chelek is Hashem.
ויזכה לו בעולם הזה דבר המספיק לו כמו שזכה לכהנים ללויים. And this type of person falls under a category then he merits similarly to what the kohanim and the leviyim get, meaning their own type of not a nachala because they didn't have a nachala, but their own zach. I don't know how to say this in, in terms...
Hakadosh Baruch Hu provides. Ah. Do you realize how misinterpreted this Rambam could be? And Rav Elyahu is going to explain to us the problem with this Rambam. I just want to make sure before moving on that everyone understood this Rambam.
If anyone did not understand it, do you have any shailas on this Rambam? You're talking about a specific type of Yid, mufrash umuvdal.
הבן אדם פשוט הולך תמים פועל צדק דובר אמת בלבבו all the words Dovid HaMelech describes about the ideal type of... ideal type of Jew. It seems his inyan is also falls under like Kohen and Levi.
It seems like this, nachon, based on the Rambam. Any questions? So vaiteh. Yesh lamdu mikan, so Rav Elyahu says there are those that learn from this Rambam שכל מי שלומד תורה ומלמדה לאחרים הרי הוא כשבט לוי שפטור משירות בצבא. There are those that learn this Rambam and they, they could say shteyt moforsh barambam.
This is exactly how the Rambam says. Anyone that teaches learns Torah and teaches Torah to other people, they are patur from service. You can learn that out from the Rambam. They are patur from serving in the army.
Veyeish hacholkim, but there are others that say, ah, you didn't understand that Rambam.
ואמרו שהרמב"ם כתב שקיבל עליו לעמוד לפני השם לשרתו ולא להתעסק בכל החשבונות הרבים אשר ביקשו בני אדם וקודש הקודשים. Or you could say, no, the Rambam just said that a person that stood - chose to stand before Hashem and not deal with cheshbonot harabim this world that most people are dwelt with, the Rambam calls him kodesh kodashim.
אבל לא כתב שהוא נפטר מהשירות הצבאי.
But the Rambam doesn't write in here it's a cryptic Rambam. The Rambam doesn't say and therefore he is exempt from serving in the army. Does the Rambam say that by Kohanim and Levi'im? Yeah, because Kohanim and Levi'im, the Levi'im are because of their minyan, because we learned remember we learned last week when they're counted. Right.
So because the Levi's counted miben chodesh lemala, he's mufrash umuvdal Levi slash Kohen. Their inyan is different. When there was the counting, מבן עשרים שנה ומעלה, Levi'im weren't in there. They were counted in a different counting.
So the Rambam leaves it open because he says this type of a Jew that's learning Torah and teaching others, he's in the world of kedusha. He says he's kodesh kodashim and he says also he's like the Kohen and the Levi, but he doesn't spell out the words vehu patur me... It's implied. Exactly. It's implied, but it's not spelled out.
This is the diyuk, this is where you understand this word Rav Eliyahu is saying? You know why you're all confused? Because the Rambam didn't really spell it out for you, but he implied it. So which one is it?
יפה, לא צריכים לענות עכשיו. We're just learning the sugia. I just want to make sure it's clear to everybody why even in the Rambam's words it's not so pashut.
Now your heart can take you to what you want to hear. Man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest, said the famous yid. Come on. Paul Simon.
Guys. This is... yeah, that hurt me more than like not understanding the Rambam. Yafeh.
עוד יש להוכיח כי אם הרמב"ם היה רוצה לומר שלומדי התורה פטורים ממלחמה, you could also prove that if the Rambam wanted to say that people that learn Torah are patur from serving in the war - being in the army, שיכתוב את ההלכה הזאת בהלכות מלחמה בספר מלכים. Write it where? In Hilchos Milchama in Sefer Melachim.
שם נכתבו כל ההלכות של הפטורים מהמלחמה. There, in Hilchos Milchama, Sefer Melachim, the Rambam does go through a list of those people that are patur from serving.
ושם לא כתוב שהכהן המשיח אומר מי שלומד תורה ילך וישוב לביתו. Over there it doesn't say someone that's learning Torah should go back to his house. What does it say though? There are other people that we'll get into it. There are those that fall into that category.
But so again, if you want to say that the Rambam would say that there are those people that are patur, basically lomdei Torah are pturim, so it shouldn't even be over here, this is Hilchot Shmita veYovel, right? Where did he quote it from? He says yeah, this is Hilchot Shmita veYovel, perek yud gimmel. Meila. But he's saying if you're going to say it, where would you say it? Say it there, Hilchot Milchama where there's a list of people that are patur. So this gives a lot of koach to the voice that says lomdei Torah are not patur from a war.
Nachon? So everyone feels better right now, right? In this room people feel better. But we live part of we're in Am Yisrael. So for great, we feel more we feel better about ourselves and our decisions and the decision what's that? Validated. We feel validated.
But I just want - it was important for me that we see יש פה באמת סוגיה. The Rambam didn't say it explicitly while he's talking about what seems to be what would have been a perfect case for the Rambam to say patur. That guy, that lomed Torah, that person that's kodesh, he becomes kodesh kodashim, and it would have made a lot of sense for the Rambam to continue and say ולכן בגלל שהוא כמו כהן ולוי, לכן פטור. But he doesn't say it.
He doesn't say it. Okay, let's continue.
ויש מוכיחים שלומדי תורה חייבים לשרת מכך שבמנין יוצאי הצבא מנויים כל השבטים ולא מצאנו אף אחד שיצא מהמנין למרות שבבודאי היו כמה וכמה אנשים לומדי תורה בין שאר השבטים.
ולמה נמנו עם יוצאי צבא?
אלא ודאי שרק שבט לוי לבדו פטור מהשירות הצבאי.
You wanna tell me Zvulun? In Shevet Zvulun? That's probably an Asher, right? Why Asher? What does it say about Shevet Asher? Yodei bina l'itim, they had this they were they were brilliant and they had this amazing insight into learning. That was Yissachar. Yissachar, Yissachar. Slicha, thank you for correcting me.
Yissachar. Lama? So wait a second, there's no learners in Yissachar? There's no learners in Zvulun? There's no learners in Reuven? There's no learners in Shimon? Only Levi learned Torah? So Rav Elyahu says mikach muva, everyone else was counted in the minyan of the tzava and amongst everyone else must have been people that could have said very easily, sorry I'm Shevet Levi and they're like no no you're actually Yissachar. You're actually Zvulun. Hu amar that the difference is Shevet Levi, that was their assignment.
What's the nafka mina? That was their assignment versus the Am Yisrael all the other shvatim had different assignments and responsibilities. Yeah well you just set yourself up. Not I'm going along with you in terms of limud. I know but I've led you into a trap so you're following me correctly.
I don't consider myself trapped. I'm with you wanting to understand. Right, I know. The thing what I'm what I mean to say is that if you say that's what they were set up for, that was their assignment, right, then the what there aren't there aren't the learners in Am Yisrael today? There are, but that's not their assignment as a Torah assignment.
Says who? Says who? Yeah. We know what Levi and what you could call Kohanim were assigned by Hakadosh Baruch Hu and the distinction and that is what it's based on. It's not whether there's a greater Talmid Chacham or weaker Talmid Chacham. That that's what they have to do and if they don't feel like doing it they're they're not patur.
Is Shevet Levi today doing what they're supposed to be doing? Okay. So let's let's start from there. Let's do it. It'd be gevalt, listen, your tayna works perfectly if today anyone that was a Levi spent all day long jamming, rocking around Am Yisrael singing nigunim besides Danny.
Danny does אף על פי כן, right? Not in my case. Or the other the other category of Levi you are or they're מופרש מן העולם הזה and they're kodesh kodashim and they don't do anything else besides think about Hakadosh Baruch Hu. The Rambam gave us the trumos v'maasros. Nachon.
So you see no one's really doing what they're supposed to be doing as the way that they were set you know that they were designated for. So it's hard today to say that the lomdei Torah are not allowed to be to think that they may fall under the category of Shevet Levi. It's a hard tayna to say. It's 2026 and you can self identify as a Levi.
Right, so stam. There's another issue too where there are hilchot milchama. Imagine if the only people who served and fought didn't learn. How would they know how how to fight? There are specific rules of how to deal with all all of these things.
You're giving you're giving even more of a basis to the voice that says that they shouldn't be serving. No, hafooch. No no but why? I'm gonna explain to you why you are. Because is the army that people are going to today פועל לפי הלכות מלחמה? Not yet.
Yafeh. So now let's go into the mind of the of the potential Yid that's a learner that would want to serve but again I'm you know that I'm playing devil's advocate but this is important okay. But they're saying sign me up when you're ready to fight like a Yid. When you're ready to give me orders like a Yid.
Not this not this insanity of keeping Amalek spread out all over the country and then pretending that we have it under control and a chayal gets killed here, a chayal gets killed here. Not this shtyot sick perverted way of of playing with Jewish lives like we're doing today. Which is the tayna by the way of those who say it's not a milchemet mitzvah not because our lives are at stake but because the leadership is not following Das. Nachon.
And you can't and you can't just brush... that my point is you can't just... even if you even if you don't hold like... You cannot just brush that voice off.
You can't. Now, that doesn't mean that the chillul Hashems that take place in Alon Shvut and all over the country are really justified because it's—you understand? We're not saying that either. But I can't stand that our tzibur brushes off the real ones that are—have these very real tainas and saying what we just built up right now. Can't take it.
Okay. This is gonna get me in trouble too. I don't—I'm already so... ein ma la'asos.
Anything you say here, anything you say about this here... See Yossi, this isn't America coming after me. This is... Bnei Akiva.
Just like, you know. Sanctions from both sides. Yeah, sanctions. Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Ah. Shut down the P.O. box too. Okay, so the bottom—the bottom of 76.
I'm going to read the paragraph again. The two last two paragraphs.
ויש מוכיחים שלומדי תורה חייבים לשרת מכך. Those that prove that people that serve that—that have learned Torah have to serve because במניין יוצאי הצבא מנויים כל השבטים.
All tribes aside from Levi are enlisted, are counted in the minyan of the yotzei tzava.
לא מצינו אף אחד שיצא מהמניין. Every tribe went in.
ואף על פי שבוודאי היו כמה וכמה אנשים לומדי תורה בין שאר השבטים, even though, like we established, there were learners in every shevet.
ולמה נמנו עם יוצאי צבא? So why were they counted amongst those that go out to war?
אלא וודאי שרק שבט לוי פטור מהשירות הצבאי. From here we prove that even if you learn Torah but you're not in shevet Levi, you have to go out into war. That's what was.
הוכחה לדבריהם עם הפסוקים בתורה שמונים את כל מי שפטור ממלחמה, right? Again, we have psukim in the Torah that clearly identify those that are patur from going out to war, like המארס אישה ולא לקחה, someone that got engaged and didn't betroth—betrothed? Is that the proper word? Betroth? Betrothed.
I could have said got married but I wanted...
הנוטע כרם ולא חיללו, the one that planted a vineyard and didn't get to—to take care of it properly. But the Torah doesn't say ולא אמרו מי שלומד תורה ילך וישוב לביתו. It doesn't—forget the Rambam, chalila, I'm saying—עזבו את הרמבם שנייה.
The Torah itself doesn't say, you know, it list—it does list those that are patur. It doesn't say מי שלומד תורה יחזור לביתו. Those were also temporary materials too because once you got—once you went through with engagement or planting the vineyard, then you would have to go to the army afterwards. But at—right, but at that time, right.
ומתוך שלא כתבו כך, now, since the Torah didn't write this, כנראה שאינם פטורים מהחובה לצאת למלחמה. The Torah didn't write this, it must mean that they're exempt—they're not—they're not exempt from going out to war in a time of war. Turn the page. V'od.
Now it gets... this is now lamdus. I love this. This is—this excites me.
V'od.
שאפילו מצינו כהנים במלחמה. Wait a second. So doesn't Kohen fall under Levi? Well, not exactly.
Because Kohanim did fight in wars. Like who? Huh? Or you'd say led.
פנחס שהיה כהן היה במלחמת מדין. Pinchas was right there.
מתתיהו ובניו היו כהנים גדולים. They're the Kohanim and they were the leaders of that—of that whole war. V'khach katuv baGemara, כי החוזרים מעורכי המלחמה שמפחדים הם כהנים. It says those that have—it's amazing when the Gemara lists here those that have to return and can't go out to war, it lists certain Kohanim that live with a certain state of fear, which means Kohanim were going out to war but they were not allowed to go out to war if they carried around with them fear.
What kind of fear? Look what the Gemara says. It says in Sotah.
ורבי יוסי אומר אלמנה לכהן גדול. If a Kohen Gadol married an almanah, a grusha or a chalutzah, if he married one of these, or l'Kohen Hedyot, mamzeret u'nesina l'Yisrael, בת ישראל לממזר ולנתין, all these different categories of people that got married to people that are assur for them.
הרי הוא הירא ורך הלבב. Those people are the ones that actually are—are soft-hearted and live in fear. Why are they soft-hearted and live in Fear of Hashem's retribution because they're carrying with them living in a state of aveiras. They're ostracized also from the community.
We're not even speaking about that. We're speaking about how let's say they weren't, let's say they weren't but they live with this fear inside of them of I was able to get around olam hazeh. It's almost a practical thing, they can't go to war if they can't be focused and if they think in that way. Nachon.
Therefore over here what the Gemara's trying to explain to us over here is that when there's pachad, the point that we're learning today is not to get into the sugya of what we got into right now, it's to show you that what? Pachad is real. No, that kohanim did serve, many, clearly. That's the point that we're trying to make over here.
משמע שאם לא היה הכהן נשוי לגרושה וחלוצה היה משתתף במלחמה.
That we see from here a kohen, now could a kohen, that if he wasn't married to someone that's assur for him, he would have participated in the war. What is Rav Eliahu saying to us over here by this? Mashma that what? A kohen, if there's anyone and obviously I'm biased but if there's anyone in Am Yisrael that could say I'm really like a Levi. Mi-shevet Levi. Who could say that more than a kohen? Right? Who could say that more than a kohen? Now they wouldn't say that in the Beis Hamikdash, they wouldn't want to give up their gig and say I'm really like a Levi, don't let me do the avodah.
Unless maybe they were very musical. You know Chaim Dovid would always used to tell me, Shloime, get it out of your system now. He always used to say to me, Shloimele, get it out of your system now, right? Always. Get it out now because you're going to be busy.
Let's go like the knife. Be'ezras Hashem. Is it not possible to say they had a pattur but that didn't stop them from serving if they chose to? But their halachic, yes, I think so because here, yes, because over here the way that he's explaining it is that he's not saying hem hayu chayavim, it says hem hayu mishtatpim. It's also not saying that they were exempt, permitted.
It says pattur, not assur. It's a very very interesting lashon. Nachon. Nachon.
משמע שאם לא היה כהן נשוי לגרושה וחלוצה היה משתתף במלחמה.
וכן מוכיח המרדכי שגם כהנים היו עמם במלחמה וכך משמע מהגמרא בקידושין. We have all these proofs when you're trying to find proofs that there were kohanim that went to war. Hai mashma, that means that what? That maybe they weren't mechuyav because they have the din of Levi, however they still went out.
Right. I wonder though if a Levi said, what if a Levi said I want to go out to war? What do you think would happen there? What about tumei meis? What about that company? No, that's an inyan, that's a halachic category that's different. We're talking about a Levi right now for instance. I think they would be able to go.
Does the wording forbid it or? That's the shaileh. It's pattur, it's exempt. But that doesn't mean it doesn't mean assur. That's what Dov was saying before.
Nachon. Kohanim definitely fall under the category of pattur, but yet they're always in the war. Now look at this fascinating Gemara he's going to bring now. The subject is שבט לוי היה בין יוצאי המלחמה the Gidulei Terumah, no? It's true, the title of this section.
Kohen from Shevet Levi, hayah nachon. He doesn't say it Levi though. But he does say in the title. Right.
I know but in what we're learning, guys, don't be oiber chachams right now in the, you're trying, you're trying so hard to azvo. Did you see a Levi, have you guys seen a Levi yet go out to war? Not that I know of, let's just and let's remember that those headings are some editor put. Yeah, you think Rav Eliahu, right. Bitul.
But look at this is a mamash, this is an amazing Gemara. Mashma, okay.
וכן מוכיח המרדכי שגם הכהנים היו עמם במלחמה וכך משמע מהגמרא בקידושין. Look at another proof here that a kohen came up in context of war quite often.
Iba'ya lehu. Ibayhu. Shaila.
כהן מהו ביפת תואר? Just think about that for a second.
What's the din of a kohen in an eshet yfat with coming in contact with an eshet yfat toar? Stop for a second. What are the questions that you have? She's not Jewish in order to have yfat toar. She's not Jewish. She's a giyoret.
He's a kohen. You understand all these different but forget all that for a second. What are we trying to be doreshim here? That they're at war. That's much more important because to learn out the sugya.
Someone could have brought an yfat toar. Not davka. Yfat toar is only if you're there in the war and in doing it. No, but someone could have brought an eshet like in a battle situation.
That's... You have your fantasies in Yami... Keep that... if you have a lot of time we'll discuss them.
One second, I want to finish learning the two lines of the Gemara and I only want to speak about what yeah, not hypotheticals. I want to talk about what we're actually learning. Ibayhu.
כהן מהו ביפת תואר.
I just told him he brings out this side of you, it's amazing. Yossi's been waiting for this side of me for years since the day I moved here. Seder.
כהן מהו ביפת תואר.
So what's the deal with a kohen with an eshet yfat toar? Chiddush hu. So it seems like oh wait a second. Great question. Well, it says לא שנא כהן ולא שנא ישראל.
Is there no difference in the time of war between a kohen and a Yisrael? Or, or we say dilma shani kohanim no, kohanim are different, הואיל וריבה בהם מצוות יתירות. It's not a conclusion here it's just showing there's a machloket Rav ve-Shmuel in the Gemara in Kiddushin. In Kiddushin, yeah. This is so again, I'm not going to go to any decisive places what it's trying to show here k'ha'i gavna if the Gemara is darshaning out over here a shaila about what to do with a kohen in yfat toar forget for our shiur with the inyan of is that even a metziut? It is a metziut, it's not is it a metziut le-halacha le-ma'aseh that a kohen can be with the yfat toar, machloket Rav ve-Shmuel.
I see you it's got to be let it be flushed out, okay? It'll be worth it. The point what we're trying to say over here is that you see how much we got moved away from the tension for a second about the bigger picture? What this is the power of learning Torah. The power of learning Torah is when you're going into the mindset of Chazal to bring something out and it's be'emet תלמידי חכמים מרבים שלום בעולם because of what we just proved to ourselves over here right now. No one here has been staying over here with this thing of charedim charedim charedim right now while we're learning, because we're learning inside with an emestik hopefully an earnest drisha for emes.
So far all we've seen is a few different inyanim, chillukim, kohanim, Levi'im zeh... But I believe that when there's a real drisha for the emes and there's hitbatlut to Chazal and to their words, that is the only way anyone can really come to a place of approaching sensitive subjects the way that we're davening we could approach them and not be mosif esh like we say in Hebrew mosif esh la-medura. Yeah. A point, when it says the kohanim could go to war we see that they lead, we learned from the Gemara that they would go up and they would mechazek the army.
But do we know that they were allowed to actually go and kill or they were just there to mechazek? Matityahu's kids. Matityahu and the sons were clearly in the war. They were back to practical question. What difference would it make? They're out there with them.
Le-mai nafka mina? The question the question relates to the current Tzahal. Why? There's non-combat soldiers. Right. That would be a place.
So a lot of the religious not all but... Meaning alright, I hear you so meaning that you're equating lomdei Torah to kohanim and Levi'im... ad d'yechezko kohanim if they kill and I've seen various... Yeah but but Dov set it up perfectly meaning let's say naniach, naniach that that was the metziut.
10,000 jobs. The sherut atzvai in a war is massive in and of... and if there isn't we would find room for other we would create the gig you know, yeah Gavriel. I'd just like to say that when when...
When the soldiers switch to chotzeh gvul and go into enemy territory, the rav, the Rav HaTzvai goes with them, fights with them, and has a gun and takes part. Maybe he's not part of the attack necessarily, but he has a gun. If bemikreh something happens and he needs to use it, he'll use it just like anyone else. Yeah.
Great example. Legamre. Not only does he have a gun, he's trained, but in a war we're already like another madrega. Legamre.
A great example, sorry, a great example, Gavriel, of who you brought up is Rav Avi Goldberg, Hashem yikom damo, whose wife is coming here next week for a very, very special, his almanah, sorry, his almanah. Yeah, what were you saying? It seems like we're still left with the inyan of patur. So the argument from the side that lomdei Torah are patur still leaves open a standing of making an argument, 'Okay, we can serve, but if we choose not to, we shouldn't be forced', at least from the way we're learning it out. That would only apply for milchemet mitzvah, but that comes to the second thing like Rav Sholom has reiterated many times, we're not fighting על פי דרך התורה.
We don't have leadership making decisions. Right. When someone from that machaneh is saying, when they hear the words milchemet mitzvah, they look at you and they say, 'Do you understand what you're talking about bichlal?' So I want to say, my personal answer is that what you could decide if this is milchemet mitzvah or not, I just love for you to stay alive, and I'd like to stay alive too. And then it becomes a shaylah of: do you believe that while we're surrounded and attacked by enemies that the Torah magnei u-matzli and that a chayal isn't considered to be like an eved Hashem learning Torah when he's serving or not? And that's when it gets, that's when the conversation gets really heated.
Really, really heated. That touches, that's even more sensitive than anything we've been talking about until now. Harbeh devarim po. Okay, let's continue.
הגמרא מביאה שזו מחלוקת רב ושמואל regarding a kohen in eshes yifas to'ar, והלא אשת יפת תואר קיימת רק בעת המלחמה ממש. Naftali, he answered your question. We're in a perpetual state of war. Your whole life in this world, your whole metzius in this world or? Yeah.
ותירץ הרב הגאון חיים קניבסקי שהכהנים לא חייבים ללכת למלחמה. Oh, Rav Chaim gave a psak on this. Omnam, they're not obligated, אבל רשאים לעשות כן כשהם רואים שיש צורך גדול. It's amazing how he took Rav Eliyahu took Rav Kanievsky to ke'ilu lehachzir lahem.
It's funny, I mean, he didn't do it bekavanah but it's interesting.
ויש מתרצים שלא כל שבט לוי שוחרר מהצבא. Oh, now he's saying like this. There are those that say it wasn't all of Levi that was not in the war.
רק מי שעסק בהפצת תורה והיה מנותק מכל ענייני העולם הזה כלשון הרמב"ם על שבט לוי הוא הובדלו מדרכי העולם. So even amongst Levi, there are those that say, 'Are you? How? Do you have your Levi on? Is your Levi, are you really being a Levi?' You can't just say 'I'm a', you know, and that comes to what I think is a very rational approach to the whole sugya. But it will never happen and that is: it's on the hanhagah of the olam ha'chareidi to really be real with those that are sitting and learning and those that aren't. But that can only come from the hanhagah and they will never go there, unfortunately.
But that would be, in my opinion, a massive Kiddush Hashem because that's what he's saying over here about shevet Levi. Within shevet Levi, you can't just say, 'Oh, shevet Levi, so patur'. Do you have your Levi thing going strong for you or not? If not, yeah, you're a Levi, sorry, you gotta, you gotta go. It's a very high bar too, to be, have the Levi on.
It's a very, listen, you know, it's a very high bar to sit and learn Torah all day long. It is. And that's why I'm not going to go into percentages right now, but there's no way in the world that 100 percent of those that aren't going, it's because they're sitting and learning Torah all day long. Ein sikui.
You say so yourself. You say even someone that's working in a falafel joint shouldn't go to. Be'vadai. But...
Because they know because they know that it'll never go. They know. They know it's a shor muad. They know they know it'll never work.
They'll never do it. We don't even have proper Rabanut Rashit because be'emet your question is exactly be'emet zeh bidyuk hanekuda. Bidyuk hanekuda. What else? What is Rabanut? Listen, I hate to be the kvetch here but it's like what besoras have they been bringing to the ruach of the am besides every few years maybe writing a tefillah maybe? I don't know.
I have no idea. That is responsibility, that's mamash leadership. To create a standardized test to say okay you reached this threshold then you're considered lomed Torah and that's what you sit in that's your tafkid. Everybody else...
Right and we'll make sure no one bothers you. You're not going out and fighting sheirut leumi or something? Legamre, legamre. I'm saying even if someone's not a gaon and he can't pass any test if someone's actually sitting and learning Torah... Yes I wouldn't do a test about how high their IQ is.
It would just be about his'askut like how much time do they spend standing outside? Who's to say? Menutak mikol manhigut. Doesn't mean how smart they are how... I'm not even talking about the Rambam's standards over here are very high. Let's go even a little bit less.
Let's say be'emet you got to put in the what do you call it? Like when you come in in the morning. Biometrics? Swipe your badge. Biometrics. That's it.
Be'emet and there could be a way of monitoring this but the thing is they'll never do that. They'll never do it. It was suggested and shot down. It was suggested and shot down.
Yeah. And even if it wasn't shot down and they implemented it there's no way. Why? Because they don't have the ma'amad in the eyes of the am. The eyes of the am are not looking at our leadership is the Rabanut Rashit.
They haven't kovesh the lev of the am. If they kovesh the lev of the am maybe but I mean maybe I'm wrong. Did they? I don't think so. I don't think so.
Honestly how many psaks have we done based on the Rabanut Rashit in the last three and a half years? You know what the only psaks were? Do you say Avinu Malkeinu or don't you say Avinu Malkeinu? Do you say two kapitlach Tehillim or is it three and if so which ones? This is what we're waiting for?
לזה אנחנו חיכינו אלפיים שנה? To figure out which kapitel Tehillim to say? We want so much more. I think we want so much more. Mimah nafshach anyway you look at it they would not have any way of implementing what seems to be a very rational approach. I was just going to say every month or two on Israeli TV you'll see they capture at some rebbe's tish or some wedding where they're singing במדינה של מינינו מאמינים איננו מאמינים ובשלטון הכופרים איננו מסתייעים איננו.
It's shilton hakofri. It wouldn't matter. It wouldn't do anything. It wouldn't do anything.
We're trying to melamed zchus on those believing that there are those though that are, I wonder be'emet I wonder sometimes I wonder to myself those guys that are shteiging all day long right? And then you see those that aren't shteiging all day long and they cause so much trouble for those that are shteiging all day long. That they're shteiging don't even know because they're too busy in the sugya. I wonder what it would be like to interview their hearts you know? What that would look like what that would be like. Lo yodea, lo yodea.
But we still definitely have a lot we have a long way to go. We're going to stop here. We have a long we have Baruch Hashem we have at least one or two more to go. Alavai Hashem should continue to light our way while we're going through this journey.
Be'ezrat Hashem.