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In this episode, Vic and Marcus break down the government’s temporary reopening, SNAP funding, and upcoming appropriations battles, then cover Fed uncertainty around rate cuts and a market selloff driven by shifting AI sentiment. They discuss massive layoffs at Verizon, medical-AI funding rounds, mental-health care innovation, and specialty-pharmacy expansion. The hosts analyze the FDA’s rollback of HRT warnings, UnitedHealth’s decision to stop covering most remote patient monitoring, and Cig...
In this episode, Vic and Marcus break down the government’s temporary reopening, SNAP funding, and upcoming appropriations battles, then cover Fed uncertainty around rate cuts and a market selloff driven by shifting AI sentiment. They discuss massive layoffs at Verizon, medical-AI funding rounds, mental-health care innovation, and specialty-pharmacy expansion. The hosts analyze the FDA’s rollback of HRT warnings, UnitedHealth’s decision to stop covering most remote patient monitoring, and Cigna’s mental-health initiatives. They review provider and pharma earnings, including Pfizer’s acquisition of Metsera, AstraZeneca’s oncology growth, Moderna’s losses, and emerging cholesterol-lowering drugs. They dive deep into Lily’s evolving identity as a tech-driven pharma leader, advances in lab-grown organs, major crypto and stablecoin developments, China’s acceleration in robotics and AI despite chip restrictions, and the growing divide between AI power users and the rest of the workforce.
Links
2:28 - Government Reopens as Trump Signs Bill to End Nation’s Longest Shutdown NYT
7:40 - The Fed Is Increasingly Torn Over a December Rate Cut WSJ
8:33 - Stock Market Today: Nasdaq, Tech Shares Lead Broad Losses WSJ
14:55 - Verizon to Cut About 15,000 Jobs WSJ
16:13 - Evidium: $22 Million Series A Raised To Scale Computational Medical Knowledge Pulse 2.0
17:21 - Amae Health Raises $25M to Improve Care for Severe Mental Illness MedCity
18:24 - House Rx Raises $55M to Scale In-Clinic Specialty Pharmacy Model HIT
19:15 - FDA rolls back warning labels on HRT products for menopause, citing misinformation Fierce Healthcare
21:11 - UnitedHealth to stop covering most remote patient monitoring Modern Healthcare
27:50 -Cigna Launches Mental Health Collaboration with Headspace MedCity
28:18 - Cigna teaming with Magic Johnson on music initiative Healthcare Finanice
29:30 - Kaiser Permanente notches 0.7% operating margin, $2.6B net income in Q3 2025 Fierce Healthcare
29:47 -
Every week, healthcare VCs and Jumpstart Health Investors co-founders Vic Gatto and Marcus Whitney review and unpack the happenings in US Healthcare, finance, technology and policy. With a firm belief that our healthcare system is doomed without entrepreneurship, they work through the mud to find the jewels, highlight headwinds and tailwinds, and bring on the smartest guests to fill in the gaps.
If you enjoy this content, please take a moment to rate and review it.
Your feedback will greatly impact our ability to reach more people.
Thank you.
What's up man?
I'm good.
It's, uh, been a busy week.
Yes.
I'm sifting through a lot of foundry applications, which is great, but a lot That's good.
All piled up around me.
That's good.
That's good.
Yeah, that's good.
Lot of entrepreneurs doing stuff.
The country's back open.
Yes, yes.
We opened up the, the government got their act together somewhat.
I dunno if I'd say that, but I, the basic thing of paying the employees of the government and sending out money for food stamps, et cetera, they do.
Yeah.
The, the, the whole thing is, uh, you know, I realized that.
The, the matter of healthcare affordability is a very important matter, right?
I mean, ob obviously yeah.
It's a super important matter, but to have let the situation get to where it got our elected officials are, are highly dysfunctional at this point.
Yes.
They're just highly dysfunctional.
It's, um, you know, and I, I'm, I'm not, you know, at a certain point you start realizing like you really just wanna be team America.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Um, and, uh, and, and it's hard to do right now.
It's hard to do, you know?
Yeah.
I, I'm frustrated with everybody up there, no matter which side they're on.
Yeah.
It's, it's just, yeah.
So, anyway, uh, but.
It is what it is.
Uh, the go, the government is open.
Um, and all the, you know, here's the important thing.
Hopefully snap benefits will flow to the people who need them.
Mm-hmm.
And hopefully all the government employees that have been working and keeping the company, the, the country running, um, will be able to pay their bills.
Yeah.
Right, right.
Like, let's, let's just look at the people, right?
Mm-hmm.
I spent a lot of time this week playing, I shouldn't say playing, working.
Yeah.
With Claude Code consuming many, many, many, many podcasts.
And so you are going to lead, I'm, I'm gonna walk through the stories this week.
Yeah.
But you're gonna lead a lot because I think you've been more dialed into the news than I have.
Yes.
I've, I've had my head, head down working.
It's okay.
I want you, I want you.
Coding with Claude.
It's good.
Yeah.
I've been working, working on some, some cool stuff for the, for the company.
Um, so with that, let's, uh, let's dig in starting out with the fact that the government is reopened.
So literally, I, I mean, I saw the news and I just kind of like put my head back down and went back to the podcast and, and the coding, like, what, what actually transpired?
What I saw was that there were a group of, I think it was 10, was it eight or 10 Democrats?
I think it was eight, but maybe it was 10.
Okay.
I, I, let's, let's say eight.
I, so there was a group of eight, uh, Democrats.
The, the ones that were notable that I saw were, um, Tim Kane and John Fetterman.
Mm-hmm.
Um, that basically, um, broke away from the rest of the Democratic party and agreed, um, to, to a deal that was negotiated with the Republicans, uh, on Sunday.
Yeah, that's right.
I mean, I think it started Friday night maybe.
Mm-hmm.
They had a meeting, those eight, maybe there were 10 and only eight actually ended up voting, met with Thune, I think late Friday.
Mm-hmm.
After all the sessions.
Mm-hmm.
To try to actually talk to each other and figure out something.
And then it ended in a, in a Sunday vote.
Yes.
Yeah.
Okay.
And then this week, well, today, so Thursday, right?
Yeah.
I mean, I feel like, uh, I saw posts around the signing of the, this executive order and the government's reopened.
Yeah.
The bill has been ratified.
So, so, so what is the bill?
Like?
What, what do we have on our hands here?
So they passed, I think, uh, four big pieces.
The main one is they funded the government until January 30th, maybe sometime in January.
Okay.
So it's not that far away.
Okay.
But we have funding until, let's say January 30th.
Mm-hmm.
It might be a different day in January.
Mm-hmm.
And then they also funded three parts of the government.
The way the appropriations process works, they've divided into 12 parts and they, they agreed on the three easiest.
So agriculture, the agricultural department, which is where the SNAP benefits are.
Mm-hmm.
That is funded for all of next year.
Great.
The foreign activities, something, you may call it something differently, but it's basically like the military abroad.
It might include other like state department and things, uh, that got funded.
I think both of those things are wide bipartisan approval.
Yeah.
And then the, the most popular is the legislative branch, which that got funded.
Oh wow.
Which is their pay.
So, you know, not surprising, they're gonna pay themselves and there are nine more that they have to.
They have to figure out.
And then the Democrats got so, so, so does that mean that like TSA and FAA are not agreed on yet?
They're not agreed on yet, no.
Mm-hmm.
Um, they, but we now have money until January to pay the, you know, the FA payroll.
Sure.
But there's not a, let's figured out there's not, there's not, um, appropriations bill for the whole thing.
Okay.
And then the other thing the Democrats got was TH's word.
And, um, they seem to think that's valuable, his word, that he will bring up the, uh, a CA subsidies for a full vote in the Senate.
So everyone will be on record as.
You know, wanting to end the subsidies or, or not wanting to, or wanting to extend them, but, but they're, but they're pulling it out of HR one for a specific Senate vote.
Yeah.
I don't know if they can go back and change HR one.
No, no.
But they're, but they're gonna do a specific vote.
Yeah.
So that everyone has to vote one way or the other.
I guess they could abstain Yeah.
On that topic to go on the record.
Yeah.
But, but, well, is is it, is it just for, for posterity or, or like, can it, can the vote actually impact whether the subsidies re remain or not?
I don't think they can do it without the house.
So if the Senate voted to extend the subsidies mm-hmm.
That would put a lot of pressure on the house.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
But I, I'm not sure that it will pass.
I mean, I mean, after this last election, the house is not looking good for the Republicans at the moment anyway.
So they're gonna lose the house after the next election, I think.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, but that's not gonna matter for next year.
Right.
And then kind of simultaneously, the Republicans have started talking about providing funding provid for people to buy insurance.
Mm-hmm.
Through different means, not through the subsidies.
Mm-hmm.
And there's lots of ideas around that, that various Republicans like, like sending STEMI checks or do using HSAs or whatever.
So I think the Democrats have gotten the topic like on the table for discussion.
Okay.
And there'll be a vote on it, and then hopefully there'll be some money in whatever form.
The subsidies are the easiest to put in place.
Mm-hmm.
Because everyone already knows what they are.
Mm-hmm.
But Trump likes the sending money to the people.
Yeah.
So who knows what'll actually come out of that.
Yeah.
Alright.
Fed is increasingly torn over a December rate cut, citing the fog.
Yeah.
The, so, uh, the Fed is citing they don't have a lot of data.
Yeah.
A bunch of Fed, uh, governors were out this week talking about the, the lack of consensus at the, at the committee.
Mm-hmm.
And, and poly market has it down to almost 50% that they will cut 25 basis points, 50% they won't, I think it's 53% for, which is a significant change.
Last week it was like in the 75 to 80%.
Mm-hmm.
So, um, I mean, you know how I feel, I, I don't think there's a question that the job piece is more dire than the price control piece, but No, but.
That's not how the committee feels.
Yeah.
Okay.
And I guess off that news, stock market sold off.
Yeah.
From that news and Disney missing earnings, everything sold off like 800 points in the Dow.
The s and p was down, everything was down today because I think last week people were expecting to cut and now it's unclear.
Yeah.
And I think also probably there's been sufficient AI bubble talk over the course of the last week.
Right.
So I think if you com you combine all the AI bubble.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Worries.
Yeah.
Michael Burry the, uh, big short guy came out against it.
I mean, I saw a, I don't have a quote, I should have brought it in some study about OpenAI in order to be able to meet the capital commitments that they have made.
They need to get larger and more profitable than Google is today.
Which seems like a long way to go in less than five years.
Yeah.
I mean, I mean, their, their projected CapEx is, is 10 x of their current revenue.
Right.
Right.
Of their revenue.
Revenue.
And they, and they spend a lot of money, not earnings revenue.
Right, right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I think there's a lot of questions around that, but I also think there's a lot of signs that the, the AI cloud adoption and utilization is still growing very quickly.
So, yeah.
I mean, listen, I, so, so as I said, I spent, uh, the last five days Yeah.
Um, working on an in internal project for us, uh, with Claude Coder.
And it was actually the first time because I, you know, been doing fun stuff.
Yeah, right.
And, you know, doing your job.
Yeah.
I've been doing other things for, you know, but, but like, we're, we're towards the end of the year.
Yeah.
You know, working on this deal, it's terms are all agreed too.
Yeah.
So, you know, I, I have a moment to like work on some stuff and, you know, I'm an old dev.
I mean, I Yeah.
Wrote software, led software teams was CTO.
It is ridiculous how much I was able to, to accomplish in the amount of time that I had now.
Uh.
I don't think someone who was not previously a professional developer, or maybe even more importantly, developer manager, could, could have done what I did this week.
I mean, I've been beating my head against the wall.
You get a long way, but you don't get to production grade.
Yeah.
And I don't, yeah, and you saw what I've done so far.
Yeah, yeah.
So like it's, it's like it's real, it's like legitimate, um, application dev that I'm doing.
Um, and in lemme in 2005.
Yes.
So that took you less than a week to build, I think.
Yes.
Or maybe roughly a week.
Not than, no, no.
Five days.
No, for sure.
For sure.
Less than a week.
In 2005, that same body of work would take how many man hours or how many people?
Mm. Six weeks.
Yeah.
It's incredible.
Yeah.
Six weeks and, and, and like many, many, many, many more hours per week than I spent this week.
Yeah.
Like you're spending six weeks more than full time.
Correct.
Just head down, correct.
Working, correct.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, when I say it took me five days, I wasn't, you do another stay, you have a job here.
Yeah.
I was not working nonstop on it in five days.
Right.
I was just interacting with it while I was doing it.
Like literally I'm, I'm, I'm like in a meeting and like, just like answering a question.
And so, um, so I think for me seeing that, uh, I don't believe it's a bubble and I think there are so many people who have not actually engaged with it at that level.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Who just, you just don't know.
Yeah.
Like I, I, I think people are chatting with it and they're like, it sort of replaces Google search.
Okay, fine.
You know?
Yeah.
Or, or it makes these stupid images or these stupid videos.
Right?
Yeah.
Like I don't think people understand how much of a productivity game changer it is going to be.
And well 'cause the inter it's code, so the interface is through software and if you are not a developer, it's hard to interact.
Like you can chat whether you can ask it to plan a trip for you somewhere.
But the interface is hard for non devs.
It will create many new jobs and it will also, um, empower many entrepreneurs, but not before it wipes out a ton of jobs.
Yes.
And that elimination of jobs is going to be a lot of value capture, like a ton of value capture.
So as far as I can see right now, the numbers are actually pretty.
Pretty decent.
I don't believe it to be a bubble.
Yeah.
That doesn't mean that there's not gonna be a quote unquote correction, but I think when you play it out over the long term, I, I think these stocks are right on.
I think they're right on target.
Um, especially because we're gonna talk later on the show about sort of China.
Yeah.
And yes, there are, there are real disruptive things there, but I think ultimately the different nation states are gonna create regulations around what you're able to do with, with, with different tools.
And, and most corporations are gonna just pay the money to anthropic or to Microsoft.
Yeah.
Know what I mean?
Like, like, I just don't think that's going away.
So, um, yeah.
I mean there, there's gonna be, I think there'll be significant fights over market share, but the cloud resources Yes.
Are gonna be needed.
I mean, like, they're gonna be utilized, they're gonna be very lucrative relative to the.
Old fashioned way of people and buildings, right.
And stuff.
Getting things done.
The other thing is we're, we're skipping ahead to the AI section, but the other thing is like people are conflating open AI with the Mag seven.
Like the mag seven have real revenue generating products and real distribution.
Open AI has got distribution, but it's not deep.
It's not multi-year long distribution.
And like the product is still a little bit of a parlor trick, like relative to Tesla that people drive in every day.
Yeah, right.
You know what I mean?
Like, it's, it's not Microsoft, it's not Oracle, it's not Google.
It's, it's not, yeah.
I mean, I think it is a question whether OpenAI will grow into the, the need that one company to all of that CapEx, but someone else will pick up those, those, um, data centers.
Correct.
Someone's gonna build 'em.
Correct.
It doesn't need to be OpenAI.
Correct.
Uh, so.
Alright, let's keep moving.
Verizon is about to cut 15,000 jobs.
Now, I'm not sure that this is a, uh, an AI story.
Uh, they have a new CEO.
Apparently the company is under, you know, operational pressure losing customers.
Um, Dan Schulman, who was CEO at PayPal and Virgin Mobile is now their, their CEO.
You know, he's, he's doing the take the poison on, on, on the first, you know, first earnings report.
And so he's, he's gone, gone ahead and done that.
But this company only had a hundred thousand employees.
This is not, it's a 15% layoff.
It's a sign percent.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's not an AI story.
I mean, I'm sure there's AI that will make them more efficient, but, but they are cutting people because they need to be competitive and have too many people.
Yeah.
I mean, it's, it's, and you know.
Most of the market is red in the sell off, but right now, at, at this moment, Verizon is, is up.
Yeah.
Right.
The, the market loves these layoffs.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The market, it's great for shareholders.
It's not good for the people, but it's great for shareholders.
No, and, and the CEOs and the boards of these publicly traded companies are incentivized to do what Wall Street likes.
Yes.
That's, I mean, they have, that's their job.
They can't not do that.
Yeah.
So we're gonna see more of this for sure.
Alright.
AI rundown, evid Dium, $22 million Series A raised to scale computational medical knowledge.
Yeah.
So they are trying to create a new data set to really teach oms how the human body works, how, how medical, uh, diagnosis and treatment functions.
Very ambitious.
I think it makes a lot of sense.
It's also pretty significant.
Undertaking.
So the mode here is that the round was co-led by Health 2047, which is the Venture Studio founded by the a MA. Mm-hmm.
So that's the mode, right?
I mean, like normally I would be like, why are people doing this?
The foundation model companies, blah, blah, blah.
But your answer is the a MA is launching this company, right?
Yeah.
I mean, I'm, I'm getting more confident with my, you either have proprietary data or proprietary distribution, right?
Or you shouldn't do that market, or should, or you shouldn't do or shouldn't do it.
And I think the AMA has both of those.
Yeah, I think, I think you're right at different levels, but, uh, but, but it's more the proprietary distribution.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Right.
That's right.
A May health raises 25 million to improve care for severe mental illness.
The Series B round was led by Altos Ventures, including participation from Quiet capital, blink capital, Cedar-Sinai, healthier capital, and A VC.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So this is, um, you know, I think a good approach at rethinking, how do we.
Mental illness in sort of a verticalized manner.
So they have an entire team, of course they have psychiatrists, but they all have dieticians and you know, whole set, whole, whole healthcare, but focused on mental health.
It says there was, their results are, they've reduced 30 day hospital readmissions to about 4% versus the 23% national average.
Um, according to the announcement of chief score improvements of 76% for mania, 61% for psychosis, and 49% for suicidality through measurement based care.
So that's that.
Those are good results.
Results, yeah.
Um, and Cedars sign and I coming back in on the round, I think probably says that they're at least one partner that's happy with the results.
Yeah.
So, um, that's awesome.
Alright.
House RX raises 55 million to scale in clinic specialty pharmacy model.
Uh, specialty pharmacy is are one of the few places where you could still make money in, in pharmacy.
Um, so it makes sense that they would be scaling it.
This 55 million is a Series B. It's led by NEA with, uh, town Hall Ventures, LRV Health, first Round Capital, Bessemer Venture Partners in Silicon Valley Bank.
So really strong group around the table.
Um, and, uh, what can you tell us about this?
Yeah, so this is, um, an older startup founded in 2021, like you say, a specialty.
Pharmacy is, is, you know, maybe the best growth area in in pharmacy right now.
And they're do, they're going really quickly.
Uh, total capital raise is a hundred million so far.
So, uh, congrats to them moving into policy.
The FDA is rolling back warning labels on HRT products from menopause citing misinformation.
So this to me is another one of those instances where, um, we are seeing the, the influence of the, the podcast world mm-hmm.
On, on policy and on politics.
Um, you know, before this became, I think, a big deal in, in the policy world.
And of course, like, you know, we, we need to make sure we.
Draw the connection for listeners that RFK Jr. Um, rose to prominence during this last election cycle Via podcast.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Right.
Like, it wasn't via social media, it was via podcast.
And, um, there is a very, very strong biohacking medicine 3.0, uh, genre in the podcast world.
Most, you know, probably most, uh, led by Peter Attia and Andrew Huberman, but there are many, many others.
Yeah.
And if, if you are a listener to those podcasts, then, you know, one of the drums they've been beating for a while now is the fact that hormone therapy, hormone replacement therapy for women, uh, has been demonized, uh, to the great detriment of women's health for decades.
Um, yes.
And it's time to end that.
And so now we're seeing the FDA rolling back these warning labels.
Yeah, I think that's right.
And podcasts in general are longer form.
You can take enough time to explain why.
HRT, you know, was demonized or how it was demonized and what it actually does for women and why it's beneficial.
Um, and I think it's good to have the FDA now understanding that the, I mean, there's a large body of evidence suggesting that it should be rolled back and then they didn't roll back at like clean slate.
They left a couple things that they wanted to point out that you should still talk to your doctor about.
So it seemed like they did a good job sort of trying to correct.
Mistakes that were made in the past, I think this is positive.
Alright.
Moving into the payer world.
UnitedHealth stopped covering most remote patient monitoring.
This is a pretty big story.
I think.
Um, they're gonna end the coverage of remote patient monitoring for most chronic health conditions among commercial and Medicare enrollees.
Uh, beginning Jan one, they will only pay for commercial and Medicare members to use remote patient monitoring devices when they have heart failure or hypertensive disorders of pregnancy.
And, uh, they've basically said that RPM is unproven and not medically necessary due to insufficient evidence of efficacy.
So this is, this is, uh, you know, one of the big payers out there, obviously UHG is in the process of a turnaround.
That's like, I think mm-hmm.
In their own words is what they would say.
Yeah.
They're working on this turnaround, projecting to have it sort of completed by 2027, taking matters into their own hands and, and kind of peeling away from what has been the common.
Coverage model, um, established by CMS.
Yeah, I, I'm still shocked about this.
I was shocked when it came out a couple days ago.
I do not believe I've ever seen a payer decide not to cover something for its Medicare population that CMS is covering in the, in the traditional fee for service Medicare.
I, I don't, I don't, I haven't seen that before.
I don't, I'm not saying it hasn't ever happened, but it's unusual.
So, so lemme ask you quick, like, do you think that this is a matter of like, modern healthcare, putting this story out and like there's something about CM S's policy that we don't understand?
I mean, I didn't think it was allowed possible.
I didn't think it was legal or allowed to make a coverage.
No, no.
Uh, commercial payers have forever change the rates.
They reimburse.
The whole point of Medicare Advantage is to you, you sort of capitate the, the patient and then you, you're responsible for covering them in total.
But even in the commercial book, I can't think of an example where CMS covers something and commercial does not.
I don't, I didn't think that was allowed.
So I mean, in the article they say UnitedHealth Group says the policy complies with Medicare requirements.
Uh, the American Telemedicine Association did not immediately respond so well.
So go back to that paragraph right there.
Yeah.
CMS yeah, requires Medicare Advantage insurance companies to cover the same services.
Traditional Medicare CMS has covered remote patient monitoring services for many conditions, for fee for service since 2019.
That, to me, at least, that suggests that it's pointing to it, but it's, it's, it's not, it's not.
Well, the next line is UHG said the policy complies with Medicare requirements.
Right.
So, so, so I mean, they're leaving some gray in the article.
Yeah.
Because I, because I'm with you.
I mean, I, I don't know that it's possible to be a payer on behalf of Medicare.
Yeah.
And, and not comply, not follow the, yeah.
So, so, and I guess the reason why I'm bringing it up is if it is in fact true that it, it it does comply, then it could be heralding in a much broader, uh, sort of write down of the RRP M industry.
Yeah.
Like, but like that's, that's kind of what I'm saying.
Right.
Right.
And the reason it was shocking to me is CMS itself has added Yes.
Remote therapy.
Yes.
And added below 15 days.
Yes.
They are moving towards covering more.
Variety of remote patient care and different iterations of it, a thousand percent.
And so it just seems like they're going the exact UHG is going the exact opposite direction, but, but they claim it's allowed.
So I don't, I don't know.
Well, we'll see.
I mean, listen, what CMS establishes is, is the direction of their policy versus, you know, what the, what the insurers in the, in the markets are dealing with.
Who, who basically uniformly have MLRs over 90%.
I mean, UHG I think, which is 89, uh, percent, but obviously everyone knows the payers are, are not having fun right now, right across the board.
So it's like CMS might set out, Hey, we're, you know, we're gonna do this, we're gonna do that.
Um, but if it's not a requirement, we may be seeing.
United Healthcare leading the way, and other payers just deciding, you know, that they are not gonna cover RPM, which, which is the more important thing, right?
I mean, like, when we think about as investors, I think we saw the signal of, of the proposed, uh, you know, rule around, uh, expanding RPM codes as well as, uh, I think it was like paying some percentage of what they were previously paying, even if, uh, the person was using it to a lesser degree.
Right?
It's very close.
It's almost the same.
Yeah.
Basically it's, it's, it's an expansion of support Yeah.
And expansion of payer support.
But if that is contradicted by the United Healthcare and, and other, you know, payers out here saying, yeah, we're not gonna cover it.
Uh, then, then the portfolio companies of VCs all over the country that are, you know, banking on RPM.
No question about that.
Right.
That's, it's gonna be really difficult for the market.
That's, it's just, and it, it's also really a mixed signal.
I mean, to me, this is a very negative announcement for RPM.
There's no question it's a negative announcement for RRP m It goes further than that though.
If, if payers can elect to not cover procedures that they don't think are valuable, that's a very different role than, yeah.
Yeah.
They have had before.
Yeah.
They previously would fight and negotiate around the, the reimbursement rate, but I didn't know they were allowed to just decide not to cover something.
Well, maybe these higher MLRs are gonna drive behaviors from the payers that we haven't seen in the past.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Maybe they have to cover remote patient monitoring, but not every disease or whatever.
Yeah.
Because they did pick out two.
Right.
Which, which were probably the ones that they absolutely could not.
Yeah.
Get out of, yeah, I guess so.
Diabetes, I mean, they're not doing diabetes, which was is the one that everyone knows before the most common one, right?
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
Uh, two Cigna stories back to back.
The first Cigna launches, mental health collaboration with Headspace.
Yeah.
So I think Cigna is really performing well.
They, they got rid of their Medicare advantage books.
They only have, um, their kind of a SO employer business Yeah.
Commercial.
Yeah.
And they're now kind of leaning into mental health in a way that's I think, really positive.
Yeah.
Well, they, they're not facing all these headwinds That's right.
That all the, all the Medicare advantage books are dealing with.
Right.
Uh, and then secondarily here, uh, Cigna's teaming with Magic Johnson on a music initiative.
Yeah.
So this was interesting, you know, the, um, the A SMR thing mostly on YouTube.
Yeah.
Or Instagram.
I've been just like flabbergasted and, and observing, not knowing what to make of it.
But they ever, now, have you ever, but have you ever like watched and listened to an ASMR video?
Yeah, it's, it's pretty, it's pretty common.
Cool.
It's cool.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's common, you know?
I mean, yeah.
But they gi they, so that they now are going to bring it to their, to their members in partnership with Magic Johnson.
I think it's great.
I mean, it's similar to, to the last story with, with Headspace too.
Yeah.
I mean, I think what's interesting here is, is, is, uh, magic Johnson's ability to, uh, establish partnerships in all manner of industries.
Yeah.
I mean, he's got a partnership with Sodexo.
He's had a partnership with Starbucks.
He's had a partnership with, I think it was.
A MC or Regal, like it was one of the two movie theater, um, brands, Cigna, I mean, he can, it doesn't matter the industry, this guy can, can partner with just about anybody's very huge sports figures that can cross over like that.
But he, he certainly, it's incredible.
It's incredible.
Uh, going into providers, not a whole lot of stories, but we do have one Kaiser Permanente just 0.7% operating margin, 2.6 billion in net income in Q3 2025.
Kaiser continues to perform.
Yes, that's right.
They they do.
They're doing a good job.
We do.
We cover all the earnings, so we're just sort of noting it.
Yep.
Alright.
Going into a pharma rundown here, Pfizer completes up to $10 billion acquisition of Met Sarah.
So we've been covering the, the tug of war between Pfizer and Novo over met Sarah and, uh, you know, look, Pfizer's, CEO said he didn't think Novo could actually execute on what they had proposed.
And, and I guess he was right.
Yeah.
And I, I think it's, I think it's probably good for the industry Yes.
To have Pfizer with, you know, uh, obesity, weight loss option.
Nova already has.
Yes.
One, uh, so I don't know.
I, I think it's Pfizer needed it more.
They paid more then they, they had to get this deal thou, thousand percent.
Thousand percent AstraZeneca revenue climbs on pipeline strength revenue.
Their oncology unit, its top business has jumped 19%.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The oncology business is just a growing crazily.
Um, so they're doing a good job.
Moderna swings to a loss on fewer COVID-19 vaccine sales.
I, I mean, I don't know what Moderna can do.
That is worth very much now.
No, I, I, I agree.
I agree.
They, they've, they, they had their moment.
I mean, the mRNA, uh, methodology, I think has pretty narrow use cases, but not that it doesn't have use cases, but it's.
Narrow to build the entire company on it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Agree.
Alright, more drugs to fight high cholesterol are emerging patients have options beyond statins and other alternatives are on the horizon.
Yeah, so I have heart disease and I'm really focused on trying to learn about heart disease.
I think we have a chance to really make a significant improvement in it.
Number one killer.
Yes.
Number one killer.
Yeah.
I mean, so it's, it, it's, it's a good target to focus on.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I think we can end heart disease defined as, knock it out of the top five in 10 years.
And getting cholesterol low is a critical piece of that because, because it, it's sort of an accumulation of damage over many years.
Yeah.
And there's several new drugs coming out.
Um, all different, uh, methodologies, different approaches.
Some that are a one time, uh, effect, some that are just different methodologies, but.
A whole portfolio of different, different tools, which are great.
Yeah.
I mean, the PCSK nine were felt like, uh, over the course of the last two years mm-hmm.
Kind of the, the one I mostly heard emerging.
Yeah.
Does this article, uh, talk, talk about things kind of even beyond those?
There's a, there's a, there's a CRISPR one, there's, there's two or three that are sort of, uh, maybe a step, a step behind that.
Uhhuh li we'll talk about Lilly in a little while.
They have one.
I mean, but I mean, of course Lilly has lots of things, but there, there's lot.
There's, I mean, heart disease, as we just said, is the biggest killer.
So that and cancer are the two biggest markets to, to attack.
Yep.
So everyone's looking at it.
Yep.
The final story here in pharma, I, I brought this one up, so it's not a story per se, it's a podcast episode.
Mm-hmm.
Um, Stripe, which is.
Massive, massive FinTech company.
Yeah.
Um, the two founders are John and Patrick Colson.
They have a podcast called Cheeky Pint, and Yeah, they're Irish.
They're Irish.
Yeah, exactly.
Uh, and Dave Ricks, who's the CEO of, uh, Lily, was on their podcast.
The episode launched two days ago.
Mm-hmm.
And as soon as it came out, I sent it to you.
Yeah.
And while I was doing claw code, I was like listening to it and I'd stopped coding and like actually pay attention to this mm-hmm.
To this podcast.
Um, it's over an hour long.
A couple, a couple of things from me.
I, I'd love to hear your, yeah.
Your takes on it.
So, I think we have been, over the course of the last couple of years, chronicling some of the things Lily's been doing outside of Glip One.
Yeah.
Um, Lilly Direct was a big one that we covered.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, I think maybe last week we talked about the, the supercomputer that they're doing with Nvidia.
Um, and then Tune Lab is, is their open source platform where other people can collaborate and, and, uh, share models together to advance drug discovery.
Right.
And then it's, it's also publicly known.
Lily is a LP in, in Jumpstart Nova.
So, you know, we've, we've got a great relationship with them.
When I've watched this sh this podcast, I think it, it really hit me, Lily is evolving beyond the traditional pharma company.
Right.
Uh, like they, they are starting to me to feel more like a tech company than, than a pharma company.
Mm-hmm.
Which I think is brilliant.
Okay.
Because when you think about where healthcare is going.
There's a couple of undeniable but hard swallow truths about it.
Right.
Uh, the, the, the costs are unsustainable and they are going to be dealt with one way or another.
Right?
The costs are unsustainable.
They are gonna be dealt with one way or another.
We've been talking about job loss in so many industries.
The job losses are coming to healthcare.
They haven't come yet because some of the implications from HR one and some of these other things have not hit yet.
They're really gonna start hitting in 2027.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but when they do, the layoffs are coming, uh, to the providers.
The pa like the, the layoffs are, are definitely coming.
Pharma.
However, is fundamentally different.
They're not a labor intensive business, they're a science focused business, and their inefficiency has been the r and d process.
Right.
And, and what is going to radically change not just the r and d process, but also the nature of the solutions that the pharma industry is going to be able to produce artificial intelligence.
Right.
And so if you are a well positioned pharma company, which Lily is, do you sit on your heels and just say, Glip one until we die?
Or do you leverage that really great position right, to ride the wave of the max seven?
Right, right.
And, and effectively like self disrupt and transform the entire industry that you're in.
Right.
And as I was watching and listening to Dave talk to John and Patrick, I, I realized like his star is about to rise.
Like we, we were about to see him be understood, like, like, like, you know, Jensen Wayne's been, been the CEO of, of Nvidia for a very long time.
Right, right.
Like he's only recently become like the super cool guy with the leather jacket and all that kind of stuff.
And I, I think this guy is gonna end up being, I think, the biggest star in, in healthcare that's that like, that's like I, I watched this and I was like, I don't think there's anyone close to him right now who like under, who can sit down with the co-founders of Stripe.
Yeah.
But can you name another person in hell there who can like, do that credibly and, and not just hold his own, but like actually drive the conversation effectively?
No, I mean, maybe the CEO of Cigna, but that's it.
I mean, there's, there's, there's no one Lily is hitting in all cylinders.
They, they have been investing way before this year in r and d where they have a good, a good pipeline of research.
And what I was struck is that, um, he is able to discuss sort of global health policy, and he frames it in the, in the framing of like results, how can we get people to live better quality of life, live longer lives?
And the point that, that he was making, that I was just like floored with is that since 65.
We have increased the, um, life expectancy by eight years and about 90% of that.
Now he's reporting this and he runs a drug company, but 90% of that is due to pharmaceuticals, medications, which I think is, whether it's 90 or 85, it's, it's most of it.
And less than 10% of the money we spend on healthcare is going to pharmaceutical.
So people that was complain and bitch about the cost of one drug.
But if you look at the overall system, we're not spending much on it compared to all the results and the impact of people's life.
So two things.
Absolutely right.
That was a mic drop moment on the podcast.
Yeah.
It also was like this, you know, that's the kind of.
Talking point you can hang a whole narrative on.
Right?
Yes.
And him being on this podcast, it's like he's going direct, he's going direct like a tech.
CEO goes direct, right?
Like he's not hiding behind press releases and Right.
You know what I mean?
Like he, he's going direct.
And so I, I don't know.
I mean, I feel like we just came out of, like, when, when we started this show, uh, all the negative attention was on pharma and private equity.
Remember that?
Yeah.
Yeah.
There was not negative attention on the payers.
Mm-hmm.
And there's not negative attention on, on the providers.
Right.
It was, it was really around pharma and private equity.
It's pretty much switched now, right?
Like we're kind of, we're, we're, we're kind of beyond talking about the opioid epidemic.
Yeah.
Right.
We're kind of beyond that.
And, and Glip ones are invoke, and, and people really like them.
And, and people think they're good.
Right.
And, and the pharma industry produced the Glip ones.
So that actually has been a real, like, I hadn't, I just hadn't really thought about it until I sat down and I watched him and I, I wasn't thinking about the industry.
I was more thinking about him as a personality, the sentiment in the industry where the industry sentiment had sort of shifted to, and then where all the tailwinds are.
Right.
Right.
That like, even more importantly, where all the tailwinds are.
And I was like, oh shit.
Like, like Lily might be the company.
Yeah.
Well mean the thing about a podcast that, you know, 'cause we do this every week, is it's long form.
Yes.
You have to be comfortable that you know all your facts, you know all the different things.
Whatever they, 'cause they could ask anything Yes.
In two hours.
Yes.
And he comes out of a, a sales biz dev.
Kind of, uh, starting point, but then very involved in the science and making decisions.
And so he can talk about sales and markets, but also the science and genetics and how the research is done.
And not every, not many CEOs can, can do that.
They're much more, uh, scripted by the PR team.
He, he felt it is more important than sounded and looked like.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
He felt like a tech CEO Yeah.
To me.
And that is just not something healthcare CEOs do.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
They don't, they don't feel like tech CEOs.
So anyway, I, I just, to me, uh, we've been, you know, we've been okay, this story, that story, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
But this to me was a moment where I was like, okay, I think I've recognized something that, yeah.
That I hadn't previously recognized.
And it's gonna, I, this show to me is always, is just about like.
Evolving our, our scaffolding.
Yeah.
In terms of how we understand the industry.
And when I watch this podcast, for me, you know, the other thing I picked up from this podcast was Stripe's getting into healthcare.
And that's a big deal.
I mean, I, I think we're about to get into crypto here in a second, but people may think Stripe is just like a developer tool.
They're building an L one blockchain.
They bought Bridge a big stable coin company.
Like, so you wanna talk about an organization that could revolutionize and they're smart and they have tons of money.
Tons of money, and they're into healthcare.
Like, like I think they're, they're into like biotech stuff.
This's part of the reason why they, why they were having a conversation with him.
Right.
So to me this was another notch of the old healthcare industry is on its way out faster than people think it is.
But I.
All of the incumbents are not going to be left behind.
Like there are some that I think actually can take really, that will not, can, will take really strong leadership positions.
And I think I can pretty definitively say like Lily is is certainly one of those.
Yes, I agree off my soapbox.
This store by health in US scientists grow more hopeful about ending a global organ shortage at an international conference.
Researchers at the forefront of animal human transplantation compared nodes and allowed themselves the first real optimism in decades.
This is from the New York Times.
Yeah.
So people have been talking about this.
I worked in a lab in the nineties trying to grow human hearts inside of pigs.
People have been talking about forever.
Uh, 'cause we need more organ donors.
We don't have enough people die of.
Kidney and liver and heart, and we're making significant progress where it, it is, uh, they, they're making the most progress on kidneys, but all, all the organs are making progress, uh, where it is a, a human genetic kidney from a, from a gene point of view, but it's being But the pigs a c incubated or Yeah, yeah.
Cigarette.
Yeah.
It's being grown in the medium of the pig's body of the pig.
Right.
Um, and it's, they're having good success now.
It's not as good as a human donor, but we have shortages.
But we have shortages.
Right.
And the, the progress is accelerating.
Uh, so it's hopeful.
That's awesome.
Something to track.
Let's talk Crypto Ethereum and Solana ETFs get a green light for staking via the US Treasury IRS crypto fund guidance.
So for the uninitiated, several of the biggest blockchains that are out there that have tokens, Ethereum and Solana are two of them.
Um, they reward you for what's called staking your token.
So you go to Coinbase, you buy a bunch of Ethereum, okay?
Let's say you buy 10 Ether, you can stake those ether, meaning you lock them up in the network and in return for locking those, those tokens up, the network pays you a reward.
So this reward.
Has been scrutinized as as, as a is, is it, is it legal or is it not legal to, for, uh, the organizations that help you to, as intermediaries to get access to Ether, um, if they issue that staking reward to you, is that legal?
And obviously under the Biden administration's regulatory regime, it was not legal.
It was a really, really problematic under the Trump administration's regulatory regime, all of that is being sort of reversed.
The whole choke 0.2 0.0 thing is, is being undone.
Um, and, and here we are, like, now you're gonna be able to, through your Fidelity account by an ETF for either Ether or Solana, and effectively get what will feel to you Like a dividend.
Yeah.
Just you'll just get these, it's very similar to a dividend.
You'll just get a dividend.
Right.
Just for, just for buying and holding that is in addition to the appreciation of the underlying asset.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
I mean.
It is sort of another sign of crypto sort of maturing and coming into the mainstream.
There's no reason why Fidelity should keep the staking profits and not send it out to the people that actually paid the capital to buy the e. It never made sense that that wasn't allowed, but, but now it is sort of condoned by the treasury.
Yep.
Alright.
Coinbase launched this platform for digital token offerings.
So Coinbase purchased Echo, um, which was created by some sort of legends in the, in the crypto space.
Um, and, uh, it was basically where you could do cell tokens, do do ICOs, um, and now they are launching one of the, the most anticipated tokens, which is Monad, which is basically like a, like a Ethereum like, um, L one chain, but it's really, really focused on performance.
So kind of think Solana.
Ethereum compatible.
Um, I think it's kind of an easy way to, to kind of put it, um, 'cause it runs the EVM, the, it runs the same virtual machine where Solana runs a different virtual machine.
Um, so, so all Ether apps can also run on my, but the gas is, is cheaper.
Like salon gas is cheaper.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's, it's, it's, it's more, it's a more efficient V one.
Yeah.
But I can use my, my e uh, code there, correct.
Yeah.
Correct.
You take Solidity smart contracts Yep.
Through smart contracts, all that kind of stuff.
Exactly.
So, so Monet's been something people have been talking about.
Yeah.
And looking forward to for a long time.
And, uh, and the, the very first, you know, uh, ICO effectively, uh, on, on the Coinbase platform is, is coming this week.
Yeah.
I think it's great.
And then furthermore, they have taken their view on what the fair and equitable approach to issuing new coins should be.
Mm-hmm.
So it, and maybe not everyone would know, but when you do an IPO and, and actually launch a stock.
On the public markets, insiders are locked up typically for six months.
Sometimes it's customized.
You might be a year.
Uh, but you can't just, if you're an insider that created the company and you have all the inside information, you can't just sell your shares the day after you sell on the stock exchange.
Mm-hmm.
And I think that rule has been healthy that you, you, and there's also a bunch of standard reporting and things that, that you have to do.
Yep.
Coinbase did not just take those rules, but they created their own set of guidelines.
Um, and so the, the founders that have, uh, you know, whatever millions of Monad coins, they can't sell for six months.
Yeah.
And then they change, they don't use all the same things that the SC uh, uses in stocks.
But I think it's great that Coinbase is probably the, you know, one of the most respected crypto platforms.
They're gonna make it much more fair so that people don't get, um.
You know, kind of tricked and lose money, and then there's a bad taste.
Yeah.
It's much better to do it the right way.
Yep.
Agree.
Coinbase just on, on the march to Yes.
Of, uh, leading the packing institutional crypto, but, uh, not by themselves.
SoFi, which is, you know, an incredible neobank.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, global, you know, world Bank Yeah.
Has launched crypto trading.
So now directly from your bank account, yes.
You could buy Bitcoin, Ethereum, and Solana.
Uh, that's a big, big deal.
Yeah.
So SoFi is really the first American company trying to do that.
Like one app to do everything.
Yeah.
Where you can do banking, you checking mortgages.
Mortgages.
You can buy crypto, you can invest.
There's, China has that, but we haven't really had that.
It's been a lot of fractured, uh, but they're, they're putting it together in a really interesting way.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The, I, I mean, to me this is a big, big, big deal that like you're from your bank account.
In the, in the app you can just buy Yeah.
Crypto.
Yeah.
That's incredible And so differentiated.
I mean, you know, just wrap your head around that.
Can you, in your Bank of America app buy crypto directly?
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Like that's, that's the analog 'cause because I think a lot of times people might think about SoFi as like Robinhood.
It's not, it's your bank.
It's a bank.
Right.
You know, it's, it's, uh, this is a remarkable innovation.
Uh, okay.
And then Visa Direct Stablecoin Payout Pilots speeds up access to funds for creators and gig workers.
So Visa Direct is, um, gonna be paying gig workers and online creators in stable coins now.
Yeah.
And you get paid in minutes, not days is what they're saying.
Which is incredible because it's stable coins.
Right, right.
And it's not any different than dollars.
If you get it faster, you can, you can go buy a pizza this afternoon.
That's right.
Uh, you just transition it into real dollars and charge it on your visa.
It all settles in the month.
No one even cares.
Which it is.
That's right, that's right.
Um, yeah.
So think this is Mo it's moving.
You know, it's funny, it's like even from the time when we started covering crypto to now we started like this summer.
I know it, it's coming very quickly.
It's coming very, it's faster than I expected.
It's coming very quickly.
Alright.
And in the show with AI rundown moonshots Kimmy K two thinking emerges as the leading open source AI outperforming GPT five claws on at 4.5 on key benchmarks.
So, um, Kimmy K two is open source.
Uh, it does require quite a bit of memory to run.
Um, kinda a minimum of 256 megs of, of memory.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but is a, it's a model of experts, right.
So, uh, it's, it's one sort of orchestrating.
Uh, uh, model that has an embedded group of experts that can do all manner of things.
And it's, it's designed for age agentic use cases.
So the age agentic use cases, meaning truly autonomous work.
Yeah.
You give it a task, you go away for a couple hours, you come back and it's like, put together the whole result free.
Yeah.
Not like asking you constant questions in, in sort of a chat bot model.
Yeah.
And they did not spend that much money.
I mean, we we're talking about less than 5 million, billions and billions of dollars to train models.
They spent less than $5 million to build this.
Now, even if they're lying, and it was more than that.
It wasn't a lot of money.
Wasn't a lot of money.
And the Chinese are, I mean, necessity.
They don't have the money.
They don't have the chips.
Right.
We know we know this.
Yes.
So they are having to innovate and then be.
Because they want to show off how great they're, they're open sourcing it, which is great because we can use it and we can, and I was trying to someone this weekend, like not everyone who's not a dev understands this, but the open source, you can actually just take the code and run it on and run it on if you, if you've got the, that's why I brought up the 256 megs.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You can't run it on your phone.
No, no.
It looks so, so you, you could run it on just so people can kind of understand.
You could probably run it on a Mac studio with M three Ultra, but it probably wouldn't run that well.
You can get the new Nvidia Spark, um, with the Blackwell chip.
Yeah.
And get two of 'em and wire 'em together and you can run it on that.
That's interesting.
Yeah.
Next year's Mac Studio with the M five.
Better run.
Yeah.
You just run it.
Yeah.
Like, and that's coming out in like five months.
Yeah.
You just buy that.
So, so it'll cost you 10 K. Alright.
Right.
So yeah, so let's say you spend 10 K on this thing, but then that's it, right?
Like that's it.
You're not paying for tokens.
You're not paying for you paying, paying a monthly thing.
And then, um, my point is that it doesn't matter who wrote the code.
Like yes, it was written by a Chinese person.
You can download it here in Nashville and look at it all.
Yes.
And see that there's no secret backdoor sending information to China.
Or if there even was, you could just delete it out.
Yeah.
And you can just run it, you can just keep it off the internet.
Yeah.
Right.
You don't have to run it connected to the internet.
Right.
So you have the entire store of human knowledge in a MacBook studio for a $10,000 and.
Anything you want to talk with it about all day, every day doesn't cost any more.
You have that one time cost.
Um, maybe electricity for in your house.
Yeah.
Electricity.
Right.
And that's just an incredible empowering tool for, for the world, for everyone.
The US frontier models need to sort of keep innovating, keep running, because it's the Chinese are on, on their heels.
A hundred percent.
Uh, so with that chat, GPT 5.1 is here.
Is that good news?
Do you care?
I don't, I don't, I don't really care.
I don't, I mean, I, I told you I don't use, I don't use chat.
GPT.
Yeah.
I don't, I don't use it either, except to test new models.
I, this one just came out today.
I haven't tested yet, but there are eight different, um.
Personalities.
You can give it different flavors.
Okay.
It just seems gimmicky.
Okay.
I don't know.
I think they're trying to front run.
Google's gonna come out with their new model soon.
Much more excited about that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't care about open ai.
Microsoft lays out ambitious ai, vision free from open ai.
Um, I did not read this article.
I did watch an hour plus long podcast.
'cause I told you I've been doing this, this podcasting, the Dirash PO podcast with Satya Nadella.
Um, tell me about this article.
I'll tell you about the podcast.
Yeah.
So Suleman is building, you know, Microsoft's view of where AI should, should plug in it's, and he wants it to be sort of people empowering primarily.
So it is designed to sort of work like Microsoft's tool set works, like just to sort of make.
Humor is more productive.
Yeah.
Um, they have the rights to open am models, I think, into 2032, but he's also building their own models right now.
So they'll have both.
And they're just running full steam at this.
I think it's a really, Microsoft is really impressive.
I mean, they, they're so, so, I, I, I will say what, what Satya said that aligned with what you said.
You know, darkish is a really smart guy, darkish Patel.
And so he was like, you know, you're thinking about models, like, they're gonna be like this, but they're, but they're really gonna be like that, blah, blah, blah.
And Satya, you know, of course, like it's Satya Naela dude.
He like, he's got a name.
Yeah.
It's not like he hasn't thought of this.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
And, and the thing that he said that especially in a week where I was using Claude Code Yeah.
Was he was like, listen, the agents are going to want tools.
They're not gonna want to do everything themselves.
Like it's not token efficient.
Yeah.
Like they, they, they are going to be as lazy as we are.
They're going, they're gonna want to leverage tools.
The agent would rather have Excel than have to recreate Excel just because it can.
Yeah.
Right.
There's no reason to rebuild Excel every time you need to do a spreadsheet.
Correct.
Yeah.
And I'm telling you, like, I'm watching Claude code.
Do you know how many tools Claude uses to code?
Yeah.
Because I, I am, it doesn't, it doesn't like write all the code from scratch.
It's like, that would not be efficient.
Right.
It would le So it's like, even if we get to a world where AI is doing all the software work, it will still use Microsoft Word, it will still use Microsoft Excel.
And, and so that aligns with this, this idea of like, it it's a, it's it being more of a copilot.
Right.
Which is why I think Microsoft went with that name.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, and they have, they have data distribution really mean.
GitHub is a huge.
Repository of data that is, I mean, it's largely open, so lots of people have also crawled on, but they own it.
They can do what they want with it.
Everyth.
Yeah.
They have distribution, they have infrastructure.
Yeah, they have positive brand.
Then they have Xbox, they have all these worlds and games and yeah, they're strong.
It's crazy.
Seven lawsuits, alle open AI encouraged suicide and harmful delusions.
I, I mean, again, I just don't, uh, I'm, I'm not bullish on this company.
Yeah.
I'm not either.
And they are in legal trouble.
I mean, the, because, because it is a chat bot.
There are pages and pages and pages of chats with people that have committed suicide, and the chat bot does not do a good job helping them get help get.
So they're, they're in trouble.
They, they, you know, I think in general, OpenAI is a, you know, all gas accelerate AI kind of company, and that's paid off for them in some ways, but it also has downsides article for the Wall Street Journal, uh, the AI Cold War that will redefine everything.
And, and this is really, there's a video here playing of a bunch of different unit tree robots and different companies that are not unit tree.
Uh, look, China has been killing everybody in the world when it comes to electronic manufacturing.
And, um, you know, I don't think, I don't think most people.
Think about what an incredible breakthrough in robotics LLMs have become.
Right?
Because the code prior to LLMs was so hard and inefficient because of all the dexterity that a robot needs.
Yeah.
It needs, it needs token prediction.
Right.
Token prediction was a total game changer for robotics.
'cause it's the same, it's the same tech engineering prowess, but a radically different level of software embedded in these, in this, uh, that's right in these robots now, right?
Yeah.
And they, I mean China, I mean this story, we have several stories between China and the US over the next couple stories.
They are using all of the power of the Communist party to encourage and fund winning the AI Cold War from, from their point of view.
And with their population challenges.
They're gonna do that through robotics.
Yeah.
And.
They are way ahead of us in robotics.
Mm-hmm.
And that's, that's that harder to catch up with in software.
There's nothing, there's nothing more to say about it.
Like, yeah, they are way ahead of us, but America's chip restrictions are biting in China.
What's going on here?
Yeah.
So, um, it is difficult.
This story says it's, it's very difficult to find the Blackwell chips or the, you know, the, the new well, obviously video chips because they're because of Trump.
Yeah.
They're, they're not allowed to be sold there.
And so that is, is impairing them and let's say, um, slowing them down.
Yeah.
Slowing, I don't think slow.
It's fair to say it's stopping them.
No, definitely not.
But they are, we're putting up roadblocks and we're forcing them to innovate.
Yes.
Which we saw with, with Communic K two.
Yes.
It's truly our one advantage is the chips.
Yes, that's right.
Yeah.
That, that's our, that's our one advantage.
That's our one advantage.
Ooh.
I don't know if it's gonna hold.
Hopefully we will also build in robotics and other things.
Yeah.
And how a Chinese AI company worked around the US rules to access some of NVIDIA's top chips working through kind of a shadow company in Indonesia.
Yeah.
So this is for people that are just listening.
This is also from the Wall Street Journal.
It's one day after the last story that they said it was impairing them in Indonesia.
There is a kind of nondescript building that is a data center that's providing NVIDIA chips for use with to the Chinese companies.
Uh, and they traced the chips all the way back.
They were bought by a company that Chinese China has an ownership in, in California and then shipped to some, to Indonesia, some to Australia.
So there are ways around it, but it, it's, um.
There definitely aren't as many as if we just were selling it to them.
Right, right.
But it's, it is just sort of interesting, the different things that China's doing to Yeah.
I mean, to get access to these chips, innovation will find a way, like they're gonna figure out a way to do.
Yeah.
And, and, and by the way, as long as that's true, Nvidia deserves to be a $5 trillion company.
Right.
Like, like as long as, I mean, you're worried you're doing all this to, to get this special silicone that no one else has.
It's right.
Uh, okay, two more stories.
China hatches a plan to keep the US military from getting its rare Earth magnet.
So I thought, what happened here, Vic?
I thought like, uh, Trump and G had had Yeah, they shook hands.
Yeah.
They're now shipping rare earths again.
Yeah.
We were all excited and they still are, but now they are using this, uh, validated end user system.
It just, basically they are blacklisting companies that have military use.
Oh, okay.
And not allowing those companies to access rare earths, which is frustrating seems, but think seems like fair play.
That's probably, uh, what, what we would do.
Yeah.
That seems like what we would do.
That seems like fair play.
I mean, ob so it, it's not, it's obviously it's not goods for the US military, but, but if I'm just thinking Yeah.
You know, in the gamesmanship of it all.
Yeah.
So we are not ready to have an actual war with China and we need to work on, they're not really ready to do that with us either.
They didn't, they don't wanna do it either.
You know, it's not good.
It's not good at all.
Yeah.
So that, that to me, but we need to have a supply chain that is functional.
'cause otherwise we Yeah, but they need a buyer of all their stuff.
Yeah.
I mean, like, it's, it's, we're, we're, we're still, I, I think what's been really interesting to see, like in the era of Trump is that.
Even with all the horse trading and stuff, like, we're still inextricably linked.
Mm-hmm.
You know?
Yeah.
The, the, the, for me, the big thing is they have effectively gotten away from the dollar.
Like of all the things they've been, they've managed to untangle themselves.
Yeah.
From with us, they've moved to gold and they've gotten off the dollar, but in terms of the functionality of their economy, we're still very, very linked.
Very linked.
Yeah.
Alright.
Final story.
These AI power users are impressing bosses and leaving coworkers in the dust.
So this story could not ring more true for me than this week.
Yeah.
Um, I finally got to spend some time banging away with, with Claude Coat and it's a, it's a ridiculous superpower and also like, it gives you insight into the reality of how powerful this technology is.
If you are not using it, you don't know, you are responding emotionally, you are speculating, you're doing all manner of things that you can do those things and reality will still be reality.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
And one person who leans into these tools can easily do the work of 10 who won't.
Yeah.
Easily.
That's right.
And go home early.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I, I. There were so many stories about us fighting at Cold War and things that, yeah.
I wanted to end with, if you're listening to this, you, you can take, you know, some initiative on your own and what, whatever your career is.
I, I for, I mean, we're in venture.
Yeah.
I don't think AI is gonna kill the job of venture capitalists, but I think VCs that leverage AI are, and really learn how to use it for the purpose of advancing their investment thesis.
They're gonna kill other VCs that don't.
A hundred percent.
That don't.
Hundred and that's true in doctors.
It's true in payers.
It's true.
It's true everywhere.
It's true everywhere.
And so it, it doesn't take any particularly great intelligence or effort.
You have to just be curious and want to try.
Yep.
And.
Not get frustrated.
'cause it takes a while.
It takes you a, it'll take a few weeks before you get anything that is valuable.
But the upside is ridiculous.
It means it's your life.
It's gonna change the world.
The ridiculous.
Yes.
And I don't know how, I mean, listen, I shouldn't say I don't know how you can absolutely be dogmatic about it because it looks pretty existential.
So you know how people decide to Yeah.
To to be in this moment.
I I'm, I'm not, I'm not gonna play judge on that.
Um, but if you are competitive and if you are tech forward, kind of never been a better time.
'cause holy cow, like, you know, it's funny, I, I was, I was, this week while I was coding, I was thinking, you know, Thomas Freeman should come back and say, I told you the world was flat.
Because that's what this AI is doing.
Yeah.
It is.
It is truly flattening the holy.
World, you know?
And the only thing that's not distributed evenly is awareness of that.
Yeah.
But the tech is distributed evenly.
Yeah.
And we have to say that because of the open source component, right?
I mean, because you don't even have to pay Sam Altman to use it.
Right?
Right.
So, I mean, I, I friend of mine got laid off two weeks ago in marketing and I was talking to him like trying to help, just trying to be helpful or whatever.
Sure.
And I said, you should listen to this podcast and you should pick up any of the tools.
But it's dramatically impacting marketing in my opinion.
Oh God.
Every industry.
But, but marketing is one of the first.
And he said he didn't have time to listen to the podcast or really learn.
And I was trying to be polite.
But I wanted to say, well, what, you know, you're not working.
What, what are, what are you doing?
Um, people just are scared or they, it seems, um, I don't know.
They're 50 years old and they haven't had to learn something in a while.
I, I don't, Vic I don't think people understand how many podcasts you and I consume.
And I don't mean like you and I, I mean you and I and the people who we are trying to be in the class of.
Yeah.
Right.
And compete.
And compete alongside with, right.
I mean, all I do is listen to podcasts.
Yes.
It's literally all I do.
There's no value in watching Fox News or CNN News?
No.
Like, does it, there's no value.
It is, it's marketing shit.
Selling to some base.
Fear.
And fear.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And the, the podcasts are, um, alpha.
They're alpha, they differentiate alpha.
I think about it like, um, just signals that I can't really make sense of until you see enough of them and you get enough perspective and then you're like, oh, shit.
That's a picture there.
I probably listen to 30 podcasts a week.
Like episodes.
Unique, unique episodes.
Yeah.
I probably listen to 30 a week.
Okay.
And every week that I finish listening to those 30 at the end, I think to myself, I would have no idea how fast this is all moving if I didn't listen to those 30 episodes.
That's right.
And they're free, or you have to listen to ads, but they're mostly free.
That's how fast it's all going.
And that's happening every week.
So I, I listen to, I mean, but look how many, how many people look, how many people on our own ecosystem don't listen to.
This podcast, right.
That we know.
Yeah.
And like, they fucking should not, not, not because it makes me feel better.
I don't care.
Like, it literally, doesn't it?
I don't, I I could care less, but I know how behind they are.
Yeah, that's right.
I know how behind they are.
Like if they didn't wanna, like, if they're in healthcare and, and, and you wanted to just like spend one hour knowing what's going on in economy, crypto ai, like you could just listen to this and people don't.
Right.
So, okay.
Yeah.
And, and here's, here's my favorite part.
Like, they won't listen to this, so maybe they'll catch me on a conference stage where I get paid $50,000 just to say, to say the same thing.
They could be listening to me say for free.
Yeah.
Doesn't hurt my feelings.
I don't, you know, I'm, I'm fine not having like, the biggest podcast in the world and you pay me a ton of money for me to do a keynote.
Like, it's fine.
But it's just like, like this is where people's heads are.
You know, we haven't taught anyone that you have to be like a continuous learner to survive in the world today.
I don't think we've really taught that broadly.
And a lot of people our age, you know, they feel like they trained for a career and then now they have their career.
They don't really want to go learn new stuff.
And I just think it doesn't matter what you want or don't want.
That's right.
That that just is That's right.
A thing.
It doesn't matter.
Uh, I will not be here next week.
But you have a great guest.
I have a great guest.
Cam Matthews is gonna be on.
She is um, nervous 'cause she hasn't done a lot of podcasts.
Oh.
She'll be great.
And I told her that it will be easy.
She is brilliant.
She's brilliant and gonna be really good.
Yeah.
Awesome.
So have a good time next week.
Uh.
I will be back the week of Thanksgiving.
We're gonna do a show on Wednesday night.
Yes.
Um, but I'm off next week.
Yeah.
Uh, thanks for putting, putting together.
Yeah.
See you in a couple weeks.