Jay and Carinna, it's so nice
to, to see your faces again
and to speak with you again.
we were just together.
Just over a month ago.
Can you believe that that
came and went so fast?
Oh my
I was, yes.
that was,
it's been a month.
Yeah.
yeah, it's, that was, I think I mentioned
this to you as we parted ways, down in
Georgia, but that was one of the most
hands-on workshops I've ever witnessed.
And, if you are a volume sport
photographer who is looking to dig in
deeper, I strongly recommend to check out
the, a Boatwright bootcamp because it's
hands down, one of the most engaging,
most interactive, one of the most
educational workshops I've ever seen.
But, it is specific to sport photography.
so.
It was, yeah, it was cool.
It was cool.
It was, everybody at work keeps
asking me how to describe it.
And the way I keep describing, to really
drill it in that like you're not just
showing up and taking pictures of people
that you're doing a full production, is,
I describe it as it's a movie production
set for sport photography, like.
That's the way I, that's the way I,
I, I, I describe it to everybody and
that like, it makes 'em understand.
So, welcome and, nice to see you again.
Yes.
Its good to see you.
Yeah.
Well, thank you for having
us.
Yeah, thank you.
Awesome.
so we're gonna dive right into
the first question I ask every
guest, and it's not often that I
have two people I get to speak to.
And this is fun just
for everybody who, um.
who is listening, who is not aware of you?
You, both of you, your business.
Can you quickly explain to all
the listeners why I asked both
of you to join this conversation?
Specifically?
Well, I think it's, it.
It's a lot like inviting.
If you were to have a restaurant,
that's how I would think about it.
Like Jay's the front of the house.
I'm the back of the house.
I'm making sure everything's happening.
Oh, and there's another back of
the house, Finn, who just joined
our dog.
The office.
The office dog.
Yeah, the
office dog.
but I would say that's,
that's how it would happen.
Like if you were to, to be
interviewing a restaurant, you
couldn't just do just a chef, really.
You're going to it.
It kind of encompasses everything.
and, and that's how our, our business
works is that you have to have a strong
front and back of the house to, to
make volume sports in particular work.
Yeah.
Kare and I are very different.
We're different and we really
play off each other's strengths.
Yeah.
And that was one thing that you
drilled in, at the, at the bootcamp
was, was the fact that, you know,
if somebody has a question about.
The photographic process, which
is actually gonna be my first
question once we get to it.
then like go to Jay.
But if somebody has a question about
a certain business thing and like
the reasoning why it's done this
way, whatever, go to Carinna, right?
So you guys, started out saying
like, you know, here's the, here's
how we work together, but here's a
separation and why it works so well.
And that was why I, I said, I'm
gonna have you both on because.
Yes.
At, in this, podcast, I ask questions
about photographic and business.
So that's why, it's just, it's awesome.
Okay.
What is one thing that you do
for the photographic process?
This is behind the camera.
That saves you time.
it has to be, just taking the, I,
this will probably be the common
answer for most photographers, but
take doing it right in the camera.
You know, we have our lighting set
up, we have, it pretty much dialed in.
We have a system for it.
And I think that just being
consistent on the lighting, is where
we're gonna save it the most time.
Also, Also the new features of the
mirrorless camera, I think really help
us is we have crop lines in our camera.
'cause most of the photos that
we crop are eight by 10 ratios.
So we have crop lines eight by
10 ratios set up in our camera,
and we also have levels in there.
So we make sure that not only are
we shooting with the correct amount
of space between the head, and the
feet, but also we're shooting level.
So getting lighting right in camera
and making sure that you're, you're
cropping your photo correctly
and you have everything level is
probably what saves us the most time.
Yeah.
That was one of the things that, I, I,
I had a feeling you were gonna say that
because of how much effort you put into.
with your lighting set up, the system,
you have to ensure your lighting is set
up consistently every job that you have.
I knew that was going to be your answer
and I'm glad that you brought it up.
I've never, again, like I've never
seen anything like it before.
Like, I've been to a lot of workshops.
I've never seen anything like
it, and it was very impressive.
and it, and it makes sense
for such high volume to have
something in place to guarantee.
A hundred percent of the time
your lighting is consistent.
so,
Yeah.
Right.
And we do provide that
to the Bootcampers too.
So anybody who does attend our bootcamp,
we make sure that they have the tools
they're gonna leave with those exact.
Same tools, down to a science,
that we have, so that way everybody
can be guaranteed the same.
You know, for us, photography wise, it,
it has to be the same every single time.
And just, just to, just to
stress that a little bit.
When you say the right tools, you're not
just saying the education, you actually
physically gave them the tools that
they need for your, for your system,
which is even more impressive, the fact
that, they 100% A to Z were able to
leave their, with everything they need
for that specific thing in particular.
Yeah, that's pretty cool.
'cause it's very specific workshop.
You know, if you're in that business,
this is like kind of like a business
in a, here's the package, here's what
you needed to be do to be successful.
Mm-Hmm.
Yep.
Yeah.
And you guys, you guys didn't hold
back anything that, that your students
needed to beat to, to, to have a
successful business in your genre?
They, they, they were able to get it
no matter, you know, you weren't gonna.
Gatekeep, anything you were just given,
you know, this one's for you, Carinna.
Yes.
What is one thing you do for the
business that saves you time or money?
And we're gonna get to
Imagen down the road.
So let's skip Imagen for the time being.
but in general, one thing you do for the
business that saves you time or money.
Right.
It would be making sure that you
have the right, the CRM software, and
whatever online for us, the online
platform, that is gonna host the picture.
So everything kind of behind
the scenes, it has to be.
Perfect.
It has to be completely seamless.
so whatever type of software it is
that you're using in particular,
it has to, it has to fall in line.
You have to use it exactly the
same way every single time.
you have to have, very rigid For me,
I'm extremely rigid on my processes.
so that way I'm not, not forgetting,
any, any, points and, and, And so that
way when we show up to a shoot, what
that's gonna do is that, that's gonna
guarantee, I mean, I pretty much know
that, that I'm gonna vet the, the league,
the league that we're going to hire,
and then, I'm gonna know exactly what
it is that, that how much money it is a
good idea, what we're gonna be making.
so for, for me, that, that saves me time
is that I don't ever have to go back.
And like backtrack and be like, okay,
what is it that we talked about?
Like I have everything outlined
perfectly, in my software programs,
everything, all my processes that
once I, from one to five, I'm
gonna follow those steps exactly.
To ensure that when we show
up for the shoot, everything's
gonna go perfectly smooth.
Yeah.
What, what are some of those softwares
that you're using to see around
the gallery that that is helping?
Because I'm going to guess.
10 years ago you were pure paper, right?
Give or take.
Now you're not, you know, now it's,
there's a lot of digital, which
definitely can help streamline.
So what are some of those, those,
software that you're using that,
that has helped with those?
sure.
So I use ShootQ For my CRM software
and for me, it's not like I have
to keep track of every single
customer, who's ordering from us.
My main customer is going
to be my lead contact.
So the board member, the team o, whoever
it is that handles that, that entire
program, that's gonna be the person
that I'm gonna be in contact with, to
make sure everything runs smoothly.
I'm able to create workflows even in
that, you know, talking about workflows,
I create my workflows in there.
So I'm gonna have automatic emails
that are gonna pop out to them.
questionnaires about the location,
just reminders that they get sent.
and for me that saves me a load of time.
so that way when.
As soon as I book my customer, which is
gonna be my league, is that I'm gonna
send out, it's gonna have a workflow
and it's gonna send out automatically
to my board member and that's how it's
gonna end up, saving me time there.
I don't have to go back and,
and make sure I've sent, you
know, one through five emails.
It's automatically gonna do that for me.
I have it all set up.
And then also, for the software that
we use for, For selling our pictures.
The online platform is PhotoDay, so they,
for us, we just upload everything there.
They, they host the pictures and
they do pretty much all of the text
marketing, email marketing, everything
that, that it is that we need,
that takes care of it on that end.
So as soon as I upload the pictures,
I don't have to look at anything for.
12 weeks, honestly.
there's some instances where I
don't look at it for 12 weeks.
I open it back up and I look and
see what we did for the sales.
So, yeah, so I use PhotoDay for that.
so just to, branch out a bit from
the sport genre in the wedding
space, for example, there's
off, a lot of photographers
are automating as well, right?
And there's a, some instances where
you might need to stop an automation,
for example, after a person gets
married, it's a year later, let's
say they got divorced, right?
You might wanna stop an
automated anniversary email.
are there any instances now going back
to sport, are there any instances where
there's sort of this like emergency,
like red alert, I gotta stop an email
from going out type of situation that
you have come across, in, during your,
you know, your time with automation.
Right.
no, actually, if anything it's been,
it's really been my best friend.
It's been my best tool, because I can send
out emails that say, Hey, if you're not
my contact person for next year, who is?
so, you know, that always
keeps me in the loop.
It, it, my, that automation always
keeps me in the loop and it, it's
never really backfired for me.
Awesome.
That's great to hear.
You never know, like I, you know, I
photographed action sports before.
But not enough that I needed to automate.
So I've never thought about that
until, until just now about, what
kind of red alerts might you run into?
So,
Well, it's a little different
in the industry 'cause we
have two customers, right?
We have the final customer, which
is actually buying the photos.
Mm-Hmm.
But then our other customer is
the, the head of the organization.
So if there's 500 base kids, in a baseball
league, we have the board that we have
to, that's our number one customer.
And then the number two customer
would be all the parents
that we sell the photos to.
Mm-Hmm.
So we are having to please
two separate people.
So you know her, her software is.
Geared towards her CRM software
is geared towards the board
where the PhotoDay software is.
That's all geared towards
the final consumer.
Mm-Hmm
yeah.
Nice.
let's move into editing.
Let's, pre Imagen, right?
what is one thing you do, and
I think you might have just
mentioned this earlier, but, so
maybe it'll, it'll come up as well.
What is one thing you do for
the editing that saves you time?
F for I, well, I'll let Carinna
answer on, on her end what she might
do, because we have different jobs.
You know, I'll do the photos than
she actually does the editing.
But for me, the biggest thing was
is just making sure there wasn't.
Light stands in the photos or scrims in
the photos are just, you know, because
we shot, we, we basically cropped by
cropped and edited by hand before Imagen.
And so your, your mind when you're
taking photos and the wind blows
and the scrim comes in your way,
you're like, oh, I can crop that out.
That's what you're thinking, you know?
And with Imagen we don't want to do that.
We want it to be as clean as possible
for, so for us, it's just making
sure that we have a, a clean set.
You know, there's no light stands, there's
no, there's no trash, there's no anything.
There's no, I can crop that out later.
You know what I'm saying?
Like we want, if we want all the
cropping to go through smoothly and
quickly, then we have to make sure that
we have a clean set on, on, on shoot.
Or that's you,
right?
Right.
Well, you know, previously, before,
you know, we are Imagen, users, so,
but previously we did have an, an I
guess you would say, Across the world.
Yeah.
Off offsite editor.
Yes.
Offite editor.
Yes.
And we sent him everything.
And so, he took care of, care
of everything for us, but it
was, it was just very difficult
just to list logistics of it.
I mean, one of my main jobs in the
office at that point was just making
sure everything was sent properly.
it was uploaded properly.
I mean, again, we did everything by hand.
So this editor did everything by
hand, and then we came through and
we double checked everything by hand.
So everything, all of the pictures
would always, every single
one would be touched, by us.
And so now with Imagen though, I
mean just running it through, it's.
Spot checks.
Yeah.
Now it's just spot check, checking
spot checks, which is a lot nicer.
Yeah.
This, this is a good
opportunity to bring up.
What is, any day from the
time this episode airs.
any day now, there's a new
feature that's gonna be an Imagen.
It's something that, was, you know, in
partnership, with, with you both, with
partnership with some other photographers
that we've consulted with to.
get a new crop specific
to your needs in place.
In Imagen, and what we're
calling it is portrait crop.
So what that is is, anybody can go
to, sport can go to school category
when they're going to edit, and
you'll see two different crop modes.
You'll see crop, which is the
original crop that Imagen always had.
And you'll see portrait crop and
portrait crop will do your exact
crop of that, space above the head.
Space above the feet, four by five,
or which is also eight by 10, and
will center the, the, the student,
the, the player, whatever in the
frame, exactly how you've been.
Framing it in camera with your crop
marks and, getting it perfect every time.
And it's very exciting that
it's, it's gonna be here.
And, it's only a matter of weeks,
hopefully, knock on wood, when
we have the same feature for
five by seven also available too.
So, that's very exciting.
so I know our product team is grateful to
have worked with you on that to, to get it
out there and, it's, exciting that it's.
Finally here again, within
days of this episode airing.
So,
Yes, me too.
And you know, we can go in more
detail what our workflow was used
to be like compared to Imagen if
you want to get there, but the crop.
Situation is a big game changer
for us because we, you know,
we generate a lot of photos.
So, having the feeling that we can
upload to Imagen and crop and editing
is done and we can move on is, is
kind of a life changing thing really.
I can't really, it is not exaggeration.
It is like, it could be
life changing for us,
right?
Because, you know, for your audience.
For us, we consider volume.
I mean, it can be anything
over a hundred kids.
but I, I typically, we don't typically
do anything less than that, but it's
gonna be like a hundred kids, we can
take up to 12, 1500 kids in a day.
So you're talking about, for us,
we do what's called progression.
So.
Jay's gonna do a bunch of
different looks for these kids.
They're gonna be about
five different looks.
So when you're going through and
you have that many pictures that you
have to edit and, you know, of each
athlete, it's, it can really pile up.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It, I mean, doing that one by one
for each kid and you know, like
once they change the pose, yes.
You've got your, your, your, your markers
of where the, where the kid's gonna stand.
You've got your lighting in place.
You are quite literally sitting
in a, in a chair on the ground.
and, and you are, everybody's,
everything is fixed.
The only thing that's moving so much.
Is the kid.
Right.
And that slight change in
change angles.
Yep.
Mm-Hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That, that slight change in pose
is while, while it might be minor,
when it gets to the editing point.
It's not so minor anymore 'cause you've
got so many that you have to go through.
so that is, it is something
that, that, you know, I know it's
gonna save you a ton of time.
I know it's gonna save, many other
volume shooters a whole lot of time.
is there anything else you
wanna share about, about that,
before we keep moving on?
The crop tool.
Sure.
Crop, before, before,
Imagen had it or, or now,
Well, I mean, you know, I guess,
and I just, what do we estimate?
We're probably saving 20 hours a week
since we switched from doing everything
by hand to So it's been a huge thing.
And the crop, I mean the crop tool,
the crop in straightening is where
I, why I first came to Imagen, 'cause
the straightening tool wasn't just
the Lightroom tool, it was, you
know, it really was doing a good job.
'cause when you're shooting sports, you
have a lot of fences in the background.
You have a lot of stadiums and
you know, you have different, you
know, W well, you gave parallel.
Mm-Hmm.
The horizon.
Yeah, the
horizon line.
So, you know, I would, I would
have a hard time adjusting
him, by hand myself, you know?
so Imagen did a great job and that's why
we originally went with Imagen compared
to the, in any of the other AI companies.
So having a, a smart crap crop tool, not
just something that's, you know's, gonna
randomly do, you know, the same thing,
like a batch is gonna be, you know, Yeah,
I mean, we're gonna be able to either take
more time off or gain new, get new leads.
Either one of those is fine
with me, so it's a huge deal.
Yeah.
When we, when you say 20
hours, we're talking about
20 hours a person, so, right.
So it's not like 20 hours, you
know, maybe, and, and maybe
I'm saving my editor 20 hours.
No, I'm talking about the entire office.
Like it's really, as opposed to
getting the images back and let's
say we shoot, we're gonna shoot all
weekend, we're gonna come back with.
You know, I don't, 20,000
images, let's just say.
and to go through, I mean, now we
can, before we would, maybe if we
didn't have anything else going
on, we'd have 'em up by Friday.
Now we have them up.
And this is like even kind of being a
little bit lazy no later than Wednesday.
by Monday, usually everything's done.
Tuesday, we're spot
checking everything and.
You know, doing some other office work.
And then for sure by Wednesday
morning I have everything posted,
on PhotoDay, which is huge.
I'm gonna be really interested to see
numbers wise, what that's going to do,
because, you know, near the end of the
season for us it's, it's things we're
getting like two weeks behind because
we are just like shooting and we're
coming back to the office and editing
and shooting and editing and, and it
is just like a never ending cycle.
And so.
Now I'm, I'm really interested to see
how the numbers are gonna play out for
us, being able to turn those images
around so quickly for my customers.
We're almost gonna have to hold
onto 'em for a minute 'cause
then it's gonna look too easy.
I know.
I was like,
we need to hold, let's hold on
these two for a couple days.
'cause I don't wanna look
like it's, it is too simple.
Know.
That's what I
did for yesterday, so I was
like, I can't post this.
Yeah,
yeah.
I got home from a shoot, we did
our first shoot yesterday and it
was just this little small shoot,
but, you know, literally I came
back to the office and ran it.
I mean, I had it done and, you know.
10 minutes.
Yeah.
And posted the PhotoDay, ready to go.
And I guess you, I'm like, yeah,
we're gonna hold onto it for a day.
At least we did something.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
at a, at Imagen one of our taglines
is Imagen the possibilities and, when
we're thinking about volume, school,
volume, sport photographers, I think it's
more Imagen the opportunities, right?
Because now, you know, it's very much.
yes, yes.
All of this is gonna save you guys enough
time where you could go and go on more
trips and, and spend more time out with
the dog and, and the kids and and so on.
But, but I think it's a lot of, it's gonna
unlock even more business opportunities.
'cause now you've got, you're gonna
have even more of this, time to.
To bring on more leagues, more
teams, do more Bootcamps, et cetera.
Right.
So I I'm also very excited to see
Yeah.
Yeah.
We've very much, anytime we, we,
save time doing something, we somehow
managed to fill it with more business.
but you know, that's the thing is
like, that's what we're good at though.
Jay's great at shooting, he's
great at educating either other.
Our photographers, you also shoot.
I'm great at, at keeping track of
everything and making sure everything
is gonna go as smoothly as possible
and, and we're gonna run this business.
And so that's for us that,
that's exciting for us.
You know, I don't, I don't
like the editing part.
I don't like, I, I don't like,
you know, we, we have, Our,
our lab partner is Reedy Lab.
And, we, we learned very early on, we
did not like stuff in those envelopes
with pictures and sending those, like
we were really bad at it by the way.
And so just to be able to focus on
the things that we're really good at,
that's what Imagen allows us to do.
Mm-Hmm mm-Hmm.
Yeah.
That, that, I think that oftentimes
what happens when you have something
like this that frees you up with so
much time, things happen that you
really can't anticipate and what,
you know, it'll give me more time
to have a better, education process.
Like Carinna said, for our photographers
training photo, I could do more
social media stuff, which might
bring in a different type of client.
there's just so many things you can
do when you're not burnt out because
before imagining we were literally.
Taking photos, we were due, anywhere
between seven and 10 shoots a week.
Then we're back in the office editing
and our days are like, you know,
they were from 10 to 10 is what our
days looked like, and you just had
zero time to think about anything
else besides shooting and editing.
So, mm-hmm.
By taking the editing off of us, which
was the most time, then we're gonna
have, I think we're gonna come up
with all kind of creative stuff and
that's, it makes the job fun again.
yeah.
I can't wait to see what
you guys wind up doing.
from here on, it's gonna, it's
too.
so, my next question to you,
it's still business related.
What is one thing you do after, typically
I ask one thing you do after a session,
but I'm gonna say after you do a full day
of, you know, an entire league, right?
what is one thing you do after
a day that, increases business?
And by the way, this could be.
I'm gonna do a twist on this.
It could be during, because you guys
do a lot of stuff during as well.
So let's say either during or
after that increases business.
Okay.
You go first.
That increases business.
well, I, I, I automatically just
thought about you, that you're always
out looking for the, the board members.
For other leagues, or if they're
with the rec department, we're
always trying to figure out how we're
gonna get at the different sport.
yeah, I mean, typically for, for, for my,
my job, when I'm on site, typically I'm on
site Carinna's at the office and on site.
If a shoot goes smoothly, I.
Typically the people that are gonna
be sticking around afterwards, have
influence, at that, that, that league,
and of course maybe other leagues in
the community because, you know, the,
the different board members talk to
each other, different parks, you know,
maybe I'm dealing with a baseball
board director, but they're also sit
on the board of a football league.
So when we just had a successful shoot
and everybody's excited, and typically
during the shoot I'm uploading some
photos to Facebook that I really
like, that I'm taking at the shoot.
You know, to get parents excited,
get the board excited, say, Hey,
photo, today's going great today.
Here's some of the samples of your league.
And we post some photos.
And then so everybody's on a high, you
know, everybody's real excited about
how everything went, and that's a really
good time to start asking for more
business if you get the opportunity.
So we, you know, that's been a
really good way for us to, to, to
grow, organically and not really
have to go and chase people.
We're just like, you know, you know
how personal introduction's the
best, so I do that as much as I can.
Mm-Hmm.
Awesome.
Awesome.
you?
I think more business like the, the
way she markets after the shoot.
Like she has like a couple times a
year where she does like a, your little
special or you expire stuff, right?
Yeah.
I
expire stuff.
I expire galleries make it, there's,
there's some type of deadline
to, to some of the galleries.
So,
your last chance offers
make us a lot of money.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So we do a lot of,
a last chance to buy a print of your
kid before the gallery expires in
Or goes up in price.
Yeah.
Mm-Hmm.
Yeah, I usually do those at, at
Twice a during
slow season.
Mm-Hmm.
When we need some money.
Yeah,
yeah.
When there's no sports going on.
So it's a good bump though.
it's, it's a very, very, very good bump.
Yes.
It's
really, yeah.
It's really, it's significant.
But, you know,
for me, I, I do, expire my galleries, but
I always, I, I have something that's gonna
tell the customer that we're expiring it,
but then I, I do expire it, but then I go
on the next day and I reopen everything.
It's just more expensive.
So, so they do, there is an urgency to it.
but yeah, people, it really helps.
Mm-Hmm.
Yeah.
Get through the slow season.
Outta curiosity, for those who are
not familiar with the Georgia area,
what are the top three sports that
you, that you're photographing
throughout the the sports season?
Mm-Hmm.
The top three would be, the top
money makers would be the traditional
ones, football, cheer, and baseball.
Softball.
Actually softball does
really good here too.
Yeah.
and we got
a gigantic basketball league, so
it is the ma the major sports.
But percentagewise, no.
But percentage wise I would,
I would say, sales wise would
be baseball, football, cheer.
Mm-Hmm mm-Hmm.
what is the, the least obvious sport
that you wouldn't, people, most
people wouldn't expect that you've,
that you've photograph either here
and there or on a regular basis.
For Atlanta hockey.
Yeah.
Ice hockey in Atlanta.
We shoot a lot of ice hockey.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah,
that was, I, I loved hockey growing up.
I did baseball and hockey growing up, but
Well, I, you know, being the ice
hockey photos are always fantastic too.
We really love shooting 'em.
So we're fortunate we get
to be on the ice here.
a lot of photographers up north don't
get to be on the ice to have to do
composites and things like that.
And we are, we don't do composites.
We're, you know, field of play.
Or a, a really cool backdrop.
That's all we do.
And so, our hockey photos are on the
ice and that was a bit of a challenge,
you know, a learning curve for me
'cause I never played hockey growing up.
So, but now we're really good
at it and we really enjoy it.
And you know, this, that's actually a
very good point that you made, is that
we do take pictures on the field to play.
So we are not composite photographers
for us, everything is gonna
be in the natural background.
I always say kinda like
the natural habitat.
Yeah.
So, that's
mean, literally you're doing
dugouts, like literally in the,
Yeah.
in the habitat.
Yes.
Yeah, exactly.
first of all, that's gotta be a nice
change of pace from the Georgia heat
to go onto the ice, every so often.
but also what do you do with
light stands on the ice?
Do you put rugs down first
or do you just plop 'em down?
Yeah, we just put 'em down.
sometimes, you know, you have
those little rubber stoppers.
I usually, I use them,
I use the man photo.
We're traveling all the time.
So I have stackable stands or the
Manfrotto is the 1 1 0 0 4 BAC, I
think is the, and they're stackable.
Since we're traveling all the time,
we have to have gear that, that,
you know, folds down pretty tight.
So I use those stands.
They have little rubber stoppers,
you know, that keep from scratching
floors and some, sometimes you
set the, the stands on the ice.
They have the Zamboni that goes around,
you know, and the ice a little bit wet.
You put the stand down and then,
you know, we have to get off after
every session, so every 45 minutes
we're taking the lights back off.
And so sometimes those little things
get stuck on the ice, but for the most
part, yeah, you just throw the, the,
the light stands right on the, on the
ice and the Zamboni cleans up anything
that, you know, if it made it a little
indentation, it'll take care of it.
Nice.
That's, that's gotta be a lot of fun.
It is.
okay, so, this is going to be a fun one.
Again, I've never done this
with two people before.
So between the two of you, you're
gotta decide, pick a color,
Pick a color.
Oh, I'm not,
pick a color.
hold on.
Let's make it bigger so we can see.
Let's see.
Oh, I like this one.
Yellow.
Yeah, we both liked, yeah, your left.
All right.
I'm gonna thumb through the deck.
one of you just tell me when to stop.
Okay.
Okay.
You tell me.
Stop.
Okay.
I'd like for both of you to
answer whatever this question is.
Okay.
Okay.
is my favorite part of the show
because it's like complete, I have
no idea what I'm about to ask you.
Okay.
I've had this question before
with somebody else that's funny.
What is something you don't
mind paying more money for?
It fell out.
What was the question?
What's something you don't
mind paying more money
money for?
I know my
It does not have to be
photography related.
It could be anything
Okay.
what do I not mind?
A great steak.
nice.
I love a steakhouse experience, like a
really great luxury high-end steakhouse.
Ugh.
Doesn't
we did hear that at the, at the bootcamp.
You are a foodie, so that
I am.
I am.
Yeah.
Very on brand.
yes, yes, yes.
Okay.
Mine's gonna be a little bit cheesy,
but you know, it is what it is.
mine is definitely Imagen because,
because we're paying, yes.
Because we're paying a little bit more
than we paid our editor, I think, right?
For volume.
So it's a little bit more, but
I don't mind paying 'cause it's.
than paid for it.
You know what it, it's, it's more
expensive dollar wise, but as far as you
include time, it's, it's less expensive.
Mm-Hmm.
You know what I mean?
But we knew, I knew going
on that this was gonna be
Okay.
So what would be, what else Your, okay.
I told you what would be your answer if,
if it wasn't, Imagen it
can't not including, Imagen,
yeah.
If it was not, but you
didn't say that, but, okay.
what
do you not mind paying for?
What am I not mind paying for?
So I think the last person I asked
this question to is Jerry Ghionis
Um, and he said, going to see a really
good show, like, a Lady Gaga show
mm mm-Hmm.
famous jazz musician or whatever, like
he was like over the top, like, I'll
spend a fortune on something that epic.
Yeah.
I mean, golf, probably golf for me.
And experience like golf.
Like golf, I love, yeah.
If I, I experiences
trips.
We really like to travel.
Yeah.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, I love a good golf course with a
caddy in the whole, and like spoil myself.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's, I love that.
Mm-Hmm.
Have you ever done one of those,
like celebrity tournaments where
like you're the Joe Schmo that's
playing with a celebrity I,
No, but I don't really
get that starstruck.
I mean, I've met some famous golfers
before, 'cause I, I grew up playing golf.
and I would be more about being with my
friends at a really good, good golf course
rather than playing with a celebrity.
That's not really my, my thing.
They're just like a regular
guy, just like everybody else.
You know?
I like to, I like to play like, just be
at a beautiful landscape is my thing.
Yeah.
I have never played a, so my, my
grandfather was a big golfer, and growing
up, like they moved down to Florida like
many Jersey grandparents do eventually.
And, you know, I, I would go down
there and he'd always say, Hey,
do you wanna go play golf with me?
And I'd.
No, I don't wanna do golf.
But we would go to the range and we
would, I would just hit balls all day.
mm-Hmm.
That, I mean, it's just like going
to the, going to the batting cages,
like just hitting all day long is,
is nothing better for me at least.
but I'm sure one day in my life I will
actually play around, around a golf.
You should.
You should.
Mm-Hmm
yeah.
so.
I typically ask a question about
outlining your, do an outline breakdown
of your workflow from lead to delivery.
But I'm gonna again,
twist this a little bit.
I would love for the both of you to share
an outline breakdown of how a typical
day, or if it is like a full, a big,
big, big lead that needs multiple days.
Just in general, how does a, a day of
very high volume, you're doing 1500 kids.
How, how does a day like that look?
Just like an outline breakdown from
the photographic and the business side
of things from start to finish for,
for a, a whole day of high volume.
You
want me to go first on the photo side?
It's gonna first.
No, actually, the first part that's
gonna happen is that I'm gonna book them.
I'm gonna get them into my software.
I'm gonna get them all the
marketing material from PhotoDay.
and then from there I'm gonna, I'm
going to make up their schedule,
their picture day schedule.
I don't want them doing it.
They don't get to tell me how
I'm gonna run my picture day.
So I'm gonna, I'm gonna
make up the schedule.
I'm gonna make sure I know, I
have to make sure I have enough
people hired, for the shoot.
That could be five people,
that could be 15 people.
Mm-Hmm.
make sure to.
To, make sure it's gonna run smoothly.
and then I'm gonna know
the exact location.
I'm gonna keep an eye on the weather.
Very
Yes.
The weather.
Yes.
You are outdoors a lot of the
time, so that is very important.
Yes.
The weather.
And then a day of, we're all gonna get
there about an hour, hour 15 early.
We're going to, step out of the car
and then that's when Jay takes over.
Yeah.
Yeah, we typically pack
up the night before.
I've got Mm-Hmm.
A van.
We have a big sprinter van
and we also have a trailer
that we have to get packed up.
So we have a, a, a list of goods.
'cause each ba, each line,
we have three lights.
So, you know, if we have three
lines, that's nine lights, and
then, you know, team lines.
So you're talking about nine to 12
lights for a big shoot in scrims.
So we have to make sure we're,
we're real organized on.
Packing up.
Then once we pack up, once we get to
the chute, you know, like, you know,
Carinna gives us an hour, hour and 15.
We have to decide, you know, typically
they're, they're anywhere from three
to six hour days, so we have to pick
a spot on the field, which is gonna
be the best for Sun for traffic.
for sales, and we pick that spot.
We set up, set up our lights, and then we
just, with the staff, we have determine,
you know, who's, which photographer's
gonna work with which assistant.
Like for in sports and what we
do, we always have an assistant.
There's a lot of sports photographers
that try to go do it by themselves,
which I think is a mistake.
It kills you physically.
And you can't do as good of a job
without, you know, with somebody
really being hands-on with, with
your, with your, your athletes.
yeah, and we, and we shoot and we
shoot and we shoot and it's nonstop.
There's typically bare, barely
time for a bathroom break.
Sometimes cor schedules a sum in
there, but it's a pretty, pretty, tough
physically to get through a, a six hour
shoot on a turf field in the summertime.
It's pretty rough.
And then once we're done, we're
just packing up, we're going back.
And then that's when we start, you know,
we try to upload once we get there.
And the uploading process is
really important 'cause you
can make a mistake there and.
That's pretty rough.
You make a mistake, you know?
'cause we have typically, we have,
you know, we have a bunch of shoots.
So if you make a mistake, it could affect
a couple of different shoots after that.
And then that's where
Carinna takes back over.
Right.
So then there is an in-house,
in-office protocol as to how we're
going to organize the images, make
sure everything has been uploaded.
Mm-Hmm.
double check the cards.
we do in between each shoot we
do, reformat the, the backup card.
the main
card backup card.
Safe.
Oh, sorry, sorry, yes.
Yeah, the main card we're gonna reformat.
Hopefully we got everything uploaded and
then the backup card stays in the camera.
And then we're, getting ready for the
next shoot, which is usually the next day.
Yep.
Yeah.
We forgot.
We're running through.
Imagen and then fill today,
right?
Yep.
Run it through.
Imagen.
And, that'll take.
We will automatically go
ahead and just, just send it.
We'll go ahead and just send,
send the, that catalog on over.
And then, the, the next day when we come
back into the office in the morning,
we're taking those images from Imagen
and just spot checking and then, yeah,
uploading them into PhotoDay and then
posting them and then making that money.
Mm-hmm.
Making them money.
I think there's, there's,
there's two things here worth,
worth, worth mentioning.
One is, you kind of subtly touched on
this, but there's this domino effect
with the volume work where if one part
of the process of one job gets messed up.
Of some way it impacts those,
following it in some aspect as well.
So, it is very, you know, important as
you said to, to really pay attention
and make sure everything's done
correctly for, for a lot of these tasks
so that there's no domino effect and
everything else remains on, on schedule.
Yeah.
I mean, you know, for, for Carinna.
Like literally like, we'll, we'll on
a busy Saturday we will have seven
cameras in the field, you know, so
we have to upload, we have to keep
track of seven different cameras.
And before, Imagen when we
send it overseas, we could
only send 500 images at a time.
So, you know, we'd come back from a
weekend with thousands and thousands
of images, and you're talking about
if we came back with 5,000 images,
which could be a typical thing,
that means that Carinna has to bust
that up into 10 different catalogs.
to send o overseas because internet
connection's not that good over there.
So, but then you have to add
Monday through Thursday shoots.
So, I mean, we have this, this board over
here that would be full of catalogs in
which Carinna just had to keep track of.
Right.
And if there was somewhere in those
catalogs were one image or images, a set
of a hundred images weren't uploaded.
Then we have to go back and
search in the memory cards.
And I mean, it was just, just this huge
task that only Carinna could do, you know?
So now with Imagen it's
literally one quick catalog.
You know, we went from on a
big shoot from having seven
catalogs to keep up with to one.
You know what I mean?
And that's just been like such a, a huge.
Change for us, and it doesn't, you
know, we're not, you know, losing,
it's a lot more difficult to lose
images now that we have this system
compared to what we were doing before.
Right.
Mm-Hmm
yeah.
And you're, you're sending
smart previews, and they're not,
they're not going overseas now.
They're staying.
In the US going to US Amazon servers,
which are, you know, so you're getting
as fast as you possibly can get,
Yes.
at the end of the day.
another thing that, you definitely
mentioned this at the bootcamp, and
I think you subtly mentioned it just
now, is you're not really culling,
you are, you're doing a quick pass
just to ensure that like, you know,
there's nothing just completely blurry.
and, and you're just sending 'em all
for editing because you're not shooting.
With super high, you know, high
speed burst, you're shooting
high volume with intention.
Every single time you click that
shutter button, there's a reason for it.
so, I think it's worth, worth, worth
pointing out that, it's, it's a
lot of photos that you're doing and
every single one, the goal, there's
one goal and that's to sell it
correct.
single one.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, it's been great with mirrorless
cameras is really that I feel like
everything just kind of came together
perfectly at one time between
software and mirrorless cameras
and that electronic viewfinder.
And, before with DSLRs,
you had to be real careful.
Like my thing was, is like, do not take
the photo until the subject is ready.
The worst thing you do as a photographer
is take the photo and they'd be like, oh,
can you adjust this, that, or the other?
Adjust everything first.
Then take the photo, you know?
And so, same thing with over to
mirrorless, but now we have the advantage
of seeing the photo in the back of the
camera as soon as we take the image.
So you take the photo, you got it, you
move on to the next, whether it be, you
know, we're changing our camera from
portrait to landscape or whatever it
may be, but we try to be intent, like
you said, intentional about each photo.
So that way, I mean, 'cause we, and
the other thing that photographers
do is you take one good photo and
it's so great that you take it again.
You know, you just keep looking
like, oh, that look good.
Take it one more time.
And that's where she gets upset.
She goes, why do we have four
photos that look exactly the same?
You know?
So you have to be kind of disciplined
because the other part of it is, is you
have, you have literally 10 minutes to
get through 12 kids plus buddy photos
with their photo, with their coach,
with their sibling, that sort of thing.
So you might be taking 17 subjects
and you have 10 minutes to do it,
so you don't have a lot of time.
To be messing around, you gotta get
your five or six photos, get 'em outta
the way, and move on to the next team.
Otherwise, you're gonna have a bunch
of mad coaches standing there behind
you and parents and kids crying.
It can be very stressful, so you
have to be really smart the way
you do it once you get on site.
Right.
Because it is the time saver, right.
That that's the part, like not
having to call, as you said Yeah.
Is really a time saver.
Like people don't realize, they're
like, oh, you know, I can just,
it's, it's always like doing the
fallback on, on, I'll just take
care of it when I get in the office.
Yeah.
And that's, I, I, absolutely,
Yeah.
I cannot live that way.
No.
Yeah.
It works for some genres, but in your
genre it can't because of, because
of the level of volume you're doing
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
you know, you never know.
Maybe down the road there'll
be AI trained on, on.
On your type of work, and
then there will be culling.
That can help just take out
that one that you don't need.
But, it, I think it was, it was
important for, when you said it at the
bootcamp, and I think it's important
for everybody to hear now here to
who's listening now to also hear it.
that culling isn't always required
if you're shooting with intention.
So, my last question to you both
is, You have a profile now available
with Imagen for anybody to utilize.
All they have to do is buy it.
what did we, what did,
what did you call it?
Was it just called the
smaX
Photography?
Sports portraits?
I think,
I think so.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think the word smacks is attached to it.
I know.
smaX, yeah.
smaX sports.
Yeah.
Yeah.
yeah.
Something like that.
it is called smaX
Photography Sports Portraits.
Can you describe your, your editing
style, so that everybody's listening who
might be interested can then go to the
show notes, check out the link, and buy
your profile if they want it or try it.
They can try it before they buy it too.
So,
Sure.
Can you describe what,
I think I'll try to, and then if
I'm wrong, Carinna can correct me.
Okay.
all, all of our typically, You
know, we are shooting, you know,
sometimes as sports photographers,
you don't get the best location.
You have to go off in corner somewhere.
So we typically shoot at a
very shallow depth of field.
you know, we want the subject popping out.
And our profile, we've always had a
little bit of a vignette on our photos.
we wanna, really make the, the green grass
pop and the blue skies pop when we can.
so we, we increase the blues
and greens a little bit.
then also we have some contrast in there.
typically we're shooting youth sports,
so skin's really not a big deal for us.
Typically, I would say 90% of our,
our athletes have good skin, so we
can maybe even bump up a clarity or
texture a little bit in our profile.
just, you know, provide that sharpness,
that we don't really have to, but
Imagen does do the, the face, right?
Yeah.
So we do increase, the clarity and the
sharp and, and the, texture a little bit.
just to make the uniforms in, in
the, the sky and the grass pop.
And we are off camera flash too,
so yes, every, with at least a
two light set up or more so two or
more lights, never on camera flash.
Mm-Hmm
a lot of the times you're saying two, two
or three lights, because a lot of times
you're being back lited by the sun or that
you're, you're, the kids are being back
lit by the sun, so there is another light.
It's just, that's your
natural light that Right.
So, so are you saying that, just
to, just to clarify, are you
saying that in some, in some way.
The colors of the uniforms and the
overall scene are more important than
the skin tones in some cases, because
that's, it's a team, it's team photos,
you know, at the end of the day.
or is it just, that's just the focus
point that you've, that you've made,
for the, for your editing style?
I mean, not, there's no wrong way of
Right, right, right.
No, I think that, I think
that we've always, bumped up
the clarity on our profiles.
Like whenever we're in Lightroom,
we're always bumping up the clarity.
And I think you have to be
really careful with that.
People who have bad skin, you know?
'cause that's just gonna make, yeah.
So that's, that's more what I mean.
We still want the skin tones
looking correct and, so, but I
think adding a touch of vibrance.
Pretty much to everything in sports
photos, a little bit more saturation in
those uniforms is, you know, the colors
you can get away a little bit more.
you know, where like a senior
photographer, they might wanna
have some muted colors, you know,
with sports we don't do that.
Parents like bold, bright,
Yeah,
vibrant colors.
So we, you know, we try to bump
those up, you know, as much as
we can without looking fake.
Right, right.
so for those listening, if you
wanna try it, I will link to the,
profile that you can check out.
You can try it before you even buy it.
it is also worth noting that, as
Jay said, there is a vignette.
In the, in the, in the editing
style, if you are not a fan of
vignette, 'cause some people don't.
in Imagen there's actually a feature
called a profile adjustments.
And in there you could actually override
the vignette on their profile and say,
do everything but don't do the vignette.
And, And so you can have
some personal control.
In fact, it's also worth noting that
when, if, if you buy the smaX photography
sports portrait profile, it's actually
a personal AI profile on your own
account that learns from you over time.
So, it's, it would be as if you made it
yourself and, you're just using their
style as a starting point that then
you can continue going and it'll just
get smarter and smarter on your needs.
We've put a lot of photos.
We have put a lot of images in there.
Yes.
To note
that, that this is definitely, I
feel like it's been very fine tuned,
as you all do have a fine tuning.
it has been fine tuned and we do
have, a lot of, especially like our
Bootcampers, the ones who've attended our
bootcamp, is they, they ask us, 'cause
you know, the editing is usually the.
Sticking point, for a lot of people
who come into the volume world is
they're like, now I gotta edit all these
Yeah.
So, so for them, because you gotta
internal know they're hearing Yeah,
they're hearing about Imagen we're,
we're talking a lot about it, because
it's really revolutionized our like.
Office life.
And so, we have a lot of photographers
who are asking, you know, can I, you
know, can I get a profile from you?
Is there a starting point
that I can start with?
So, I do think, I mean,
it's a good one.
If I
was listening and I wasn't course
photographer, that wasn't me would get it.
I would so be into it because we have,
we have put a lot, we put an entire
season basically into it, and we're
talking about editing wise, it has.
me, Jody, Jamie, we're all three of us.
We went through, getting all the
images backed from Imagen and making
sure everything was fine tuned.
It's not like we created it and then
we just ran everything through it,
and then we're like, okay, now buy it.
No, we went through, I mean.
There's a lot, there's a lot of
pictures and for three people to
constantly be going through and
double checking because we're used
to hand checking everything anyhow.
So I had everybody go through
that process of hand checking,
I mean, tens of thousands of
images, that's been double checked.
So I do feel like this is very
much, I, I, I highly recommend it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
one more thing that, that I, I, I meant
to bring up earlier, that you just
brought up your team again and I was
like, oh yeah, I wanted to bring this up.
I think it's important to everybody know,
like, yes, there's the two of you, right?
You, you own this business.
you might be the masterminds
behind the business, but you have
a team that not only helps you.
When you're actually doing the jobs.
But at the, at the, at the bootcamp,
they were there as well helping.
And not only are they very nice as
well, but they know your business.
They know, that, so if somebody, if one of
the students had a question and they went
up to them, they knew how to answer it
without having to come to the both of you.
Right.
And I think that's really
important for any, any, volume
photographer of any genre.
To make sure that the team that you
have, not only do you trust them,
not only are they good people,
but they truly know your business.
Because if you don't have a team behind
you that knows your business as well
as you do, or almost as well as you
do, it can make or break things right?
And you've, you've over time, you've built
this team, of, of fantastic people that
really add a lot of value to what you do.
So just wanna point that out.
I agree.
That's awesome to hear.
Yeah,
okay.
thank you both for joining me.
I, I really appreciate it.
I'm so glad you were both able
to, to come together for this.
where can listeners learn more about you?
Connect with you, of course.
See your awesome sport photography.
yeah.
We have, boatwright, boatwright
bootcamp.com is, our workshops.
Mm-Hmm.
smack heart.
S-M-A-X-A-R t.com is our website.
Mm-Hmm.
on Instagram, I'm smaX,
it's sm a X_ photography.
Yeah.
And, and where else?
Oh, we, we periodically, we do, some
educating also at some, some of the shows.
I don't know if we're gonna
do anything this coming year,
probably, maybe SPAC, I don't know.
Yeah.
But you can also find us there too.
Yeah.
Awesome.
They're very friendly.
If you're listening,
they're very friendly.
If you do see them at one
of the events, go say hi.
absolutely.
thank you again, both of you.
All right.
Appreciate it.
Thank you, Scott.
Thank
you, Scott.
