Dr. Jeff Springer currently serves as the Men’s Minister at Wildwood UMC in Magnolia, TX. His company Spring Strategies helps small businesses and educational leaders create systems in their organizations to help them lead with confidence.
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You can mentor is a podcast about the power of building relationships with kids from hard places in the name of Jesus. Every episode will help you overcome common mentoring obstacles and give you the confidence you need to invest in the lives of others. You can mentor.
Speaker 2:Welcome back to the You Can Mentor podcast. My name is Steven, and I'm here with my high school principal once again, doctor Jeff Springer. How the heck are you, Jeff?
Speaker 3:Man, I I just couldn't be any better. You know? Just hey. Being on here with you, Steven, you know, it's it's great. It's great.
Speaker 3:What a great honor.
Speaker 2:Well, you don't have to lie to me. You know? I heard that your your daughter and son-in-law are moving to Arkansas. You can be honest on this podcast, Jeff, if you want to be.
Speaker 3:Well, well, I did tell you it was a kind of roller coaster, but, you know, what gets me up out of the bed in the morning is just anticipating, you know, what's ahead and the great things and and how cool it is. It really is. This is the reaping part of education to be associated and be able to do things with former students Mhmm. Like you that have gone on to do great things, and it just makes me so proud of, you know, of what we did, you know, at Magnolia High School. And, you know, we talked about another former student of mine that I work with.
Speaker 3:In my nonprofit student ministries, which we talked a lot about last time, the president of my organization is a I say a kid. He's in his late forties, Steven. I mean, he's from Langan he's one of the kids that I coached in the eighties. Oh, wow. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Graduated from SMU.
Speaker 2:Let's go. Pony up.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And so and then he went to work for me. He he I gave him his first job as a coach on my staff in Hempstead. And then, we continued to communicate with each other, but we had really then we then I rehired him about a year and a half ago to be really in charge of fundraising and, developing, you know, a donor base for for SUDEP, and he he's my president and CEO of SUDEP. So he's a former student from from 1 era, and then, spring strategies, the play side of it, is president and CEO, from Montgomery High School, a graduate 2012 graduate, I think, just received her master's degree at University of Southern California.
Speaker 3:And so really makes me proud that I've been able to maintain those relationships Yeah. Through all these years and now actually be working with them.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:In in some cases, working for them.
Speaker 2:So Wow. That is gotta be crazy. I mean, even just to to think about mentors who man, if you stick stick with it and you invest well, and maybe one day one of your mentees will be hiring you or or you'll be working together. And I I just think that's that's incredible, and I I think that's the future we want. We wanna put them on our shoulders, and I I think you've done that so well, Jeff.
Speaker 2:Aside from sharing glory stories, I wanna ask you a few questions about my high school experience, before we jump into today's content. Is that okay with you?
Speaker 3:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Okay. Well, 1, I played basketball with your son, Logan, and I I felt like he got more playing time than me. I don't know if you have any thoughts about why that was. Would just love to hear from the guy at the top. Do you have any thoughts?
Speaker 3:I don't think that was true. Okay. Well, so so were you Do
Speaker 2:you know how much playing time I got?
Speaker 3:Are you okay. So so you were you guys in the same were 2,008? Was that your is that when you graduated?
Speaker 2:2007. 7. Okay. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Okay. Well, I don't think I don't know. You know, that
Speaker 2:I just felt like coach liked him more than me.
Speaker 3:It it, you know, it probably had something to do with the fact that his dad was the principal. I don't know. You know how that so, you know, I don't know. When there are coaching you had coach who was the head coach then?
Speaker 2:It was coach Moore.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And that was coach Moore's last year because coach Randall came in the next year.
Speaker 2:Okay. Okay.
Speaker 3:And because
Speaker 2:Well, what coach Moore meant to me was coach less playing time, so so that's that's how it went for me.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, we, all I know I don't remember much of the junior year for Logan, but I do remember a lot of his senior year, and, it was a rough year. So
Speaker 2:Man, well, I mean, he was definitely better than me. I just I hope you would be willing to say that and just be be honest. I I definitely played about 2 minutes the entire season my senior year.
Speaker 3:Probably based points per minute is probably had the highest average on the team then.
Speaker 2:I never got a plaque though. I never got a plaque. I was a 100% from the free throw line. I I, yeah, I definitely shot one free throw in the the playoff game, and I made it. And that was my only free throw.
Speaker 3:So But here's the deal. You guys went to the playoffs. You know, the next year, they played I think they won 5 games. It was oh my gosh. Because well, you guys had a really, it was a pretty talented laden for for our you know, we weren't exactly a basketball mecca at the McNulty High School, but that was a pretty banner year for us.
Speaker 3:Did you guys play against Con Forest?
Speaker 2:I think so. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And they were they had some 611 guy, you know, and we had a lot of shooters, and we weren't very big, but we played played tough. But that next year, that whole team your whole team graduated. And that Logan had Logan's senior year was all seniors and one sophomore, but you guys were upper class laden and all graduated. It was like a start over.
Speaker 2:Oh, they they were proud of my team. I mean, there was a poster of our I feel like our starting 5 in front of a Mustang. It wasn't a very nice Mustang. I'll I'll put it at that, but I didn't make the poster. I I was a little depressed about that.
Speaker 2:I don't know if if did you print those? Are you the one that printed those posters?
Speaker 3:Steve, I would've never done that. I I would you know me. I would've included everybody, including the manager in the poster.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Thank you, Jeff. Well I'm
Speaker 3:sure you were in the picture. Maybe you were in the car.
Speaker 2:Well, it puts my heart at ease that you weren't involved in that. That was very traumatic for me.
Speaker 3:Yes. I hope that you haven't been harboring that against me all these years.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's awesome. Okay, Jeff. Well, let's let's get into our main topic for the day. For those of you who don't know Jeff, he was my high school principal. He is an encouraging guy.
Speaker 2:He's energetic. He's positive. He's a godly man. Every morning on the intercom, he would say it's a great day to be alive and just he would just kind of draw you into this energy, and I I thought that that was, just an incredible culture that he created at our high school. He's since moved on from education, and started a company called Spring Strategies where he unpacks the need to cultivate play in our lives and workplaces.
Speaker 2:And so I'd love to ask Jeff just to explain and unpack what he means by play. So, Jeff, yeah, what do you mean by play?
Speaker 3:Yeah. You know, play, everybody you probably get 10 people in a room and everybody has a different definition. You know, play is not always playfulness. Play can be a product, you know, creating a prototype of some kind of model, and then putting it on a table, and everybody analyzes it, and scrutinizes it, and, you know, redevelop, and remold, and reshape, and come together, and to come out with one product, where everybody's engaged in the process. And so we our ultimate goal at Spring Strategies, which is our consulting, LLC, is that ultimately, regardless of whether we work with a business organization or a school or a church, which we call our kind of our spheres of influence, is engagement.
Speaker 3:I mean, so how do we so the goal is engagement. The vehicle is play. So we've the the difficulty is is sometimes we've got to get past the mindset of what some people in our American work ethic think, you know, play is. There's, you know, it's it's separate that there's a time for play and a time for work, and then that the 2 shall never cross. But what we try to infuse with the people we work with, if they're if they're willing, if that's something that they want to do, if they really want transformational change, is that they're, in the end, their work is play.
Speaker 3:You know, for some people, play is work, and that's and that's when really you have, in my opinion, you have organizations that are stagnant, you know, they're status quo that are not are disengaged. Familiar with if you're familiar with strength finders
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:You do those 360, and they they, communicate your themes, or your strengths, your top five. If people aren't engaged on a daily basis in their strength or their areas of strengths, then they're gonna be disengaged. And StrengthenFinder say that over 70% of most employees are currently in a position where it's become almost drudgery
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:As they're not operating within the guise of their strengths, or they're they're not being utilized. And so then they become, unproductive, disenchanted, and, just punch the clock, basically. And so there is no play in that in that aspect.
Speaker 2:Well, something that I heard you say, some some work to play, some play to work, And, it made me think about just your your stereotypical company that's like, you know, we need to have fun. Let's go do a ropes course and try and, I don't know, relate better together. But if the the leadership is viewing it as like, okay. Let's get back to what's more important now that we've done this little activity. Is that is that kinda what you're getting at is that that play is not this thing that you just throw on top.
Speaker 2:It has to be within the culture of everything that you do.
Speaker 3:Right. Yeah. It's not it can be the cherry on top, but it really needs to be your mentality. It needs to be really kind of become who you are. And and you can you can define that based on, you know, what your needs are.
Speaker 3:So because it's gonna look different in every culture. It's it's so it's not tangible, you know. It's it's definitely it's it's really hard to quantify. It's just a it's almost a feeling when you walk into a building, or you sit in a room full of people in an organization. It's and it's I think there's no substitute for time.
Speaker 3:You can't just overnight create play, you know, culture of play. It has to be what you described was something that was not authentic play. You know, if by doing a warm by doing some type of of warm up activity, icebreaker, you know, which makes most people gag, you know. No. I mean, I think there's a time and place for that, but it has to be really who you are.
Speaker 3:It's it can't be just, and then, okay, let's go right back to, you know, what what, you know, business. I think it's finding play even in the midst of of urgency sometimes. And, you know, I love the old, way before your time and be probably before many of our listeners time, but they can, you know, watch reruns of MASH, the TV show MASH, which they there's
Speaker 2:It's like the Vietnam, like, hospital tent kinda deal?
Speaker 3:Kinda like the yeah. Today's emergency room, you know, TV shows, only in place in a wartime where constant, death surrounded them. But yet, in the midst of their hands deep inside, you know, bodies that they're working on, they can still find some play, some humor, some collegiality, you know, some teamwork, some and I think that it has to come from leadership. If the team is is play, but the leader is not, then and and really vice versa, a leader can't be all play either, and and and because then at some point, the the tribe, so to speak, will will vacate, will will, you know, there's I think there's a there is a balance, and but what we found out through research that was recurring themes over and over again when I interviewed principals, secondary school principals, in my dissertation about their perception of the role of play, and it's and and creating a positive culture was things things like engagement, and being able to setting a setting an environment where, talents and ideas were were welcome and utilized, you know, empowerment, creativity, innovation. Those kind of things are are all elements of a culture that has play.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's great. And in this conversation, the context we're talking about is a mentor relationship with a kid from a hard place. And so I imagine I mean, many mentors are probably in a in a spot where they're like, I don't think I have a connection. What can I change to to make that happen?
Speaker 2:And I I think a lot of times, it it seems like there's just there's a secret sauce to making your mentee like you or enjoy the time he has with you. And so I think the temptation is to buy Mavs tickets and get a hot dog and take a selfie and think, okay. That's that's just automatically moved my relationship into the he enjoy he's gonna enjoy anything with me now. And so I wonder if you could could speak to that that situation where a mentor is like, I'm I'm trying to connect, but how do I move as the leader of the relationship into into play?
Speaker 3:If if a mentor utilize the acronym that we use with the word play, it stands for people, love, acknowledge, and yearn. If you took each one of those, and it all goes back to what I said before, time takes time. Finding out who are the the first part, who are the people in this kid's life that matter?
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:I mean, who you know, in other words, the investigative part in this especially in initial stages of really being interested in what makes this kid tick, and who's influenced this kid. Is it his mom? Is it some teacher? Some coach? Is there anybody in his friends?
Speaker 3:Anybody in their circle that are that he would consider his people?
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:The next part would be love is that that could be a lot of ways, you know, evaluating how you as the mentor are communicating your care and empathy and compassion. Evaluating, you know, how you're doing in that aspect. How does who who loves this kid? I mean, who who is, you know, which is related to people. I mean, what is this kid's love language, so to speak?
Speaker 3:You know, how do you, you know again, it takes a lot of initiative on the mentor to to remember it's not gonna happen overnight, but number 2, really really listen, you know, to your mentee and how they love, what they love, do they love, you know, those kind of things. And then the the next one is acknowledge. You know, acknowledge your own as a mentor. Acknowledge that you're not always gonna get it right. It's not every not every time you meet with your mentee is it gonna be just like as being a parent.
Speaker 3:It's not perfect. You know, we we don't get right all the time, but we still mentor. We still come back. You know? And so acknowledge where you what didn't work, so you can come up with a better plan.
Speaker 3:Acknowledge others that are being successful in maybe, in with their relationships with mentees, you know, you know, acknowledge that their kid's a kid, and kids are gonna be kids, you know. I mean, it's all kind that whole aspect of acknowledgment is just recognition of where, you know, what you need to do to, maybe change direction in that relationship. And then finally, you yearn yearning. Okay. What I guess, as you know, again, you're they're a mentor.
Speaker 3:They didn't just wake up one morning. They must have some and say, I wanna be a mentor. They must have some something that has pulled their heart into this, this calling to be a mentor. So, maybe in the in the in the part where things aren't good, you remember that yearning that you had that what that gave you that passion to be the mentor in the first place. You know, like in teaching, you know, we at the at the beginning, we're as a brand new teacher, we think we're gonna change the world, and then we, you know, we allow people to beat us down a little bit, and maybe the veteran teachers that moan and groan or whatever, and we let them influence us, and we become one of them before we know it if we if we're not careful.
Speaker 3:So we go back and remember why we got into this thing in the first place, and which I think is important. I'm sure that you all as in leadership remind the mentors, you know, incur continue to encourage them as your role, to exhort them, to continue to to understand their their value as a mentor. Mhmm. And what got them here at the first place, what you know, they had to have something that spoke to them to get to to have them be part of your program in the first place. So, really, the urine goes both ways.
Speaker 3:The yearn for your motivation, but but really, ultimately, what makes what excites your your mentee? What Mhmm. I mean, does he's I mean, he loves sport? Does he love a a particular player? Does he loves, you know, if I have a favorite subject?
Speaker 3:Does he does he love art or she love art? Or is there is there something, you know, that will connect bring the connection in showing up? Maybe they're they play sport, or they're play an instrument, or or they're in drama, or whatever it is that if they're connected somehow. And maybe you're the connector. Maybe they maybe you see that talent in them that they they know, but they're afraid, and you're the one that kinda pushes them or urges them to be get involved.
Speaker 3:And then the thing that made the most influence to me, I think, on teachers is not what they did in the classroom, but if they it's what they did outside the classroom, like, when they would show up at it's at one of my events. And then they could go then on Monday morning, they could say, hey, Jeff. I saw you play Friday night. You really did good, you know, or or, a kid, you know, looking up in the stands and seeing one of their teachers in the stands. Well, I think that's part of that of of that finding out what is what makes that kid tick or or really, you know, really you know, what's what's a button that, kid just needs a little encouragement in that direction to to amplify, you know, you know, towards the potential that they they have inside them, that kind of thing.
Speaker 3:So I I just think it it if you're if if a mentor is doing all of those, then essentially they play. And and then the outcome would be as they work through these, and they cycle, they spiral, you know, you don't just check them off, you know, it's a consistent, constant, and flow, then I think I think the the relationship will, become even more valuable to both the mentor and the mentee over time.
Speaker 2:Hypothetically, I'm imagining a mentor who's just about to be matched with a mentee. With this play, people love, acknowledge, yearn. They're walking into the relationship with eyes to see, ears to hear, trying to recognize who are the people that are most important, what do they love, how can I recognize their situation, how can I acknowledge acknowledge what what they're giving to me, what they're bringing to the relationship, how does that influence me, and then the yearn of, okay, I need to be reminded of why I signed up in the first place and and and see who's influencing me toward that end and and recognize the difference between, I guess, discouragement and encouragement of, like, who what's encouraging me into that rather than making me less hopeful? Would you say that that's a good good thing for, a mentor to have in their back pocket as they're walking into a mentor relationship, Or is it more of an evaluative thing to regularly go through and and say, okay. How can I I'm just imagining a mentor listening to this and be like, okay?
Speaker 2:I'm gonna make a piece of paper, and I'm gonna write down these things. And then, okay. Now I'm done. I did the play thing. I did the ropes course.
Speaker 2:Like Right. Like, what does that look like on a ongoing basis?
Speaker 3:Yeah. I don't think it's I don't think you go into every meeting thinking, okay. I'm gonna take them through these steps. I think these are things that accumulate that you just I think it's a great it probably would be great at the beginning when you first meet and you're doing the initial you know, not that you're interrogating, but through your through because kids just they, you know, they just love that, you know, 20 question thing. But I think they do through your relationship.
Speaker 3:I think it gives you a pattern of of or a process to, inquire and let them know that you really care as a mentor, you know, about their life.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:You know? And that you are really interested, you know, in in what is important to them. You know?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Our our mentoring organization is all about meeting relational needs. We don't work on skills and how to teach 7th graders how to be accountants or get a job at KPMG. It's it's all about meeting relational needs. But when I say that to mentors, when I say, hey.
Speaker 2:I don't want you to focus on teaching him how to change a tire. I want you to focus on on getting into his world and down onto his level. When I say that, it can it can still sound like, well well, what do you want me to do? And I think that this conversation is very clarifying of what it means to get down on someone's level. But what I'm hearing you say with people, if I accept your people, I accept you.
Speaker 2:You're meeting a relational need right there. You're coming into my space and giving me acceptance. Mhmm. Each of these Yeah. Pieces are are a clarifying step into that entering the world of your mentee.
Speaker 3:Well, you know, if you're if if if you were my mentee and I found out that you're that you just absolutely, your grandmother, you know, hung the moon, and you just think that she in in conversation, you have told me that I realize how much how deep your love is for your grandma, and so as we go and mentor, you know, I would ask questions like, well, you know, so what what's so special about your grandmother? And and, you know, then I would understand things about when her birthday and our important dates are, and I and I could, you know, remind him to say, hey, you know, you know, what are you gonna do for your grandma's birthday, you know, and, have you thought about, you know so it so in those aspects, those relational, you know, be I think that's part of finding out that people is just just finding out who their people is just the beginning, but then it also tells you who they really kinda who they are, you know? And I don't know the the probably gonna be somewhat limiting or they wouldn't I hate to say this. I don't they probably wouldn't be need a mentor, you know, but but they're even there's probably 1, at least 1, and even if it's somebody that in their eyes is is amazing, but, really, they're not for them.
Speaker 3:You know, maybe it's a maybe it's a father that they never see, but they still have that hope down in the other side, so they keep their dad up on this level or this father up on this pedestal, and you, you know, you're not gonna change that. You don't wanna change that. You just wanna cultivate that and say, yeah, you know, you know, and I'm sure and then I'm sure sometime if that was the case, they would maybe confide that, yeah, I love my dad, but I never see him, and but, you know, and you're and you're, you know, and then your relationship could be something like, well, you know, I'm sure he does love you. I'm sure he's busy. You know, what can you you know, what are some things maybe maybe, you know, you know, where he lives?
Speaker 3:Maybe you can rhyme a letter or something, or have you ever told told your dad how you feel? Those those conversations. How do you how can you have those conversations if you don't know who who those people are? And some mentors some mentors that are just natural, they don't they don't need, you know, people love, acknowledge, earn because they've they are really kinda doing it. What it does is reinforce what you're already kinda doing, and and then for those those that are would rather, be are more are thinking that they need to teach the skill part, you know, that's the natural thing and not the relationship part, then that this would help them.
Speaker 3:But you also have teachers that are great academic teachers, but they don't have they have zero relationship. You know? They teach their course. They don't teach kids.
Speaker 2:You're saying, like, they they don't have play naturally. Right. They're not coming in with it. Yeah.
Speaker 3:No. They know how to teach their their their discipline, their, you know, their area of expertise, but they don't know necessarily how to bridge that
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:With in a relationship. So that's hard to teach. So sometimes you just have to hire it. You know?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Well, that that concerns me though because, I mean, I think something that we're believing for is what's right behind me. You can mentor. Not people that have have already learned how to play can mentor. Like and and so, yeah, what what do you say to a a mentor?
Speaker 2:How do you train a mentor who this doesn't come naturally? How do you impart that? How long does that take? And, yeah, just in your experience, how has imparting this into teachers that haven't naturally had it looked like for you?
Speaker 3:Well, they they have to have a desire and a willingness. Load I'm sure most people come to you inquire. And so if they're inquiring, there's something inside them that you have to fully
Speaker 2:And it's a volunteer position.
Speaker 3:It's not I mean With
Speaker 2:teachers, you probably have people come in applying for the job. Yeah. That doesn't necessarily mean they have a desire to grow on this, but for us, probably.
Speaker 3:Well, I mean, it's you can mentor, but do you want to? I mean, that's the that's the question. Are you willing to mentor? You can, but but will you?
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 3:Do you want to? I would think that there is a percentage, you know, regardless of what profession, whether it's volunteer or paid, that you you you plus, you you know, the other thing is you can be a mentor, but what Are you a good mentor or not? You know, you wanna be the best mentor? So Mhmm. Are you willing to to learn, grow, whatever, you know?
Speaker 3:And, but, you know, we all have a mentoring piece. I mean, there's it it may not be the full if you changed it to you can coach, then it would be it would could be more about the skill aspect, you know, just like a coach coaches a kid how to play basketball, or how to play football, or, you know, so although, you know, people use coach and mentor in the business world somewhat interchangeably, I think mentoring is a deeper the more one on one personal relationship.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Which kind of what you communicated in play, it's very individualized to the mentee, and I think that's what we want. Right. I don't wanna hand my mentors a book saying, well, if you do these 10 things with your mentee, it will go well with you because every kid is gonna be different. Every kid's gonna have different people that are important to him, things that are important to them, and they're gonna have different relational needs.
Speaker 2:They're they're gonna have a different personality. And and I think that this structure is a great is a great trellis for a mentor establishing well, I wanna be the best mentor for this kid, not just for any kid, but for this kid. Right. Yeah. So what does that look like?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I think the pairing the pairing is essential because you can't you know, again, another aspect of you can mentor may doesn't mean you can mentor all kids. It may mean that you can mentor a a kid or the right kid. Yeah. So, again, I think that that, you know, I'm sure that there I mean, there might be circumstances where just like there are some teachers that aren't for every kid, so we change the kid's schedule for that kid's learning style.
Speaker 3:So, but does that make does that we don't tell the teacher they can't teach anymore. That it's just not the best situation for that particular kid. Mhmm. So just like there's a teacher for every kid, there's a mentor for every kid. So your job is connecting the right mentor mentees together.
Speaker 3:Mhmm. Again, it doesn't always mean it's gonna be smooth sailing from the very beginning as you Mhmm. As you know.
Speaker 2:There are there are many mentors who come in with a desire to see a kid from poverty and in financial success, generational wealth, and that's that's their end goal. That's their calling. And I think part of my job is helping mentors to recognize that success may look different for this kid than it does in your own life. What would you say to that of of me kind of playing the role of coming against, I guess, wrong expectations when it comes to that calling, as we come into to a mentor relationship? If someone's coming in with maybe I I won't I'm not gonna say a wrong motivation because I think that's a great desire to see that happen, but I think kinda my role is, like, lowering people's expectations so that they might not grow disappointed when the kid doesn't turn out, and fulfill the narrative that you've written for their life.
Speaker 2:Kinda my job is to help the mentee write write their story, and the mentor comes aside alongside encouraging and accepting and affirming the the mentee. So what would you say to that?
Speaker 3:Yeah. The mentee needs the mentee needs someone who believes in them because they in in most cases, probably have have very few or if anybody that's ever truly believed in them and and followed through with that belief. Regardless of what the personal expectations are I mean, if my very own kids, I have expect had expectations for them. But if I don't if I'm not consistent and I'm not there every day and I don't have a relationship with them, then there's not very much chance that they're gonna achieve those expectations. And those expectations are gonna are gonna have to be fluid as well, and it's all based on relationship first.
Speaker 3:You know? So, you know, if we're gonna you know, and when we're we're going back going back to the high school, you know, my high school days as the principal, I decided we did a we had what we call it kinda like Maslow's hierarchy of needs. I mean, if you don't take care of the kids' basic needs, first of all, start on food, water, and shelter, and then emotional needs and physical needs, then there's the kid is not gonna achieve expectations because there's urgency all around their life. You know? They're just trying to survive, but until they feel secure you know?
Speaker 3:And that's you know, that would be step 1, and, and that's building that relationship and that trust and then finding out. It's again, it goes back to what do they yearn, what you know? And then, you know, kind of forging a plan with them together with their input shoulder to shoulder, to encourage them to, you know, some kid, you might find out right away, this kid wants to do this, and that's all they think about. Well, they but they don't but you're the only one that checks on them, and you're the only one that says you can do it. Don't let anybody else talk you out of that.
Speaker 3:You can do this. Have you know? But but guess what? It's not just gonna happen overnight. You're gonna have to you're gonna have to do this, this, and this, and, you know, I believe in you.
Speaker 3:You know, I guess, you know, and then you're gonna have some other kids that you don't have a clue and they don't have a clue. So in that part of it, you can set some, you know, you that's when you do those questions, like, who are your people? Okay? Who do you admire? You you may not even know those people, you know.
Speaker 3:It may be somebody famous that they wanna emulate, you know. So and then, you know, knowing what they love, if if there's anything that they, you know, love or care about, and and then you build build that way and help them see, you know, you kinda help them see the future for them, you know, the, you know, you're you kinda prophesize a positive future for them, because nobody else is.
Speaker 2:What what would you say to a mentor who, they just feel like their mentee is a stone wall? They any attempt they make to get in, there's just defenses up, and the mentee is just like, well, let's just play ping pong and that's that's it. Because I I feel like what what you're talking about play isn't just kicking a soccer ball around. It's it's getting into their life. So what what would you say, or what are some practical tips from your own life in education?
Speaker 2:How do you get get behind the wall?
Speaker 3:Well, if if ping pong is their world, then that's then then ping pong becomes your world. And and to, you know, and then you gotta continue to look for the opening. And so whatever the vehicle, as long as it's positive and doesn't hurt anybody, whatever the vehicle is, you just gotta that's you use that. I'm like I mean, at least he's picked up the paddle, and he's, you know, and he's doing, you know I mean, worst case scenario would be a kid just didn't wanna do anything. I mean, he doesn't even wanna get up.
Speaker 3:You know? And, well, I I mean, I guess you could just sit with him every day. I mean, there's a story, a very good friend of mine named Hal Bowman, who, is a motivational speaker, goes all over the country, and he I he's been at Magnolia High School. It's after you graduated, but he has a if you can look him up, he's he's, he he's, he's like a rock star is what his, his business is. But he tell he always tells this story where this high school kid would come over and mentor this elementary kid who never said a word every day, day after day after day after day after day, and he would just for for I think it was 1 or 2 hours a week.
Speaker 3:And so for 1 hour, he would talk to this kid, and this kid never responded until the last day. I can't even tell the story without getting emotional. The key he says, okay. Well, I'm gonna graduate, and this is our last day together. So the kid, he gets up, and he walks out, and the kid sees him through the window, and the kid, so the kid that's the mentor puts his hand on the window.
Speaker 3:There's a glass between him, and the other kid puts his hand on the window. And that's the only contact that he has with a kid the whole almost the whole year, and the only response he gets out of the kid the whole year until that very last day. And he says, I'm gonna come back and see you, and I'm gonna come back and check on you. But the point is is that kid, I met him. You don't know when that opening is gonna happen.
Speaker 3:And so if you don't show up every day as a mentor, if you're not resilient, more even more resilient than a kid, and the because the kid, obviously, in this case of this little boy, had been hurt and and didn't trust anybody. You may not think they're listening, but they are. And and we you may not see the fruit even when the relationship is ended for whatever reason, whether, you know, whether the kid graduates or or for whatever reason, there's a for whatever reason, there's an end of the the relationship. That kid is gonna remember for the rest of this his or her life this this one person that this one person that they didn't respond to, but was relentless in their life. And maybe somewhere gives them, the fortitude to overcome an obstacle that they face later in life, you know.
Speaker 3:I don't I don't think I told that story very clearly, but it's a story that gets me every time, and I've heard the story probably 20 times. I I know the punch line. That's what I would say to any, mentor that is discouraged because they feel like they're not making a difference. We sometimes we never know the difference that we make in other people's lives. I've been blessed because most of the time, I get feedback, but there are I'm sure there have been instances in my in my in a relationship with a kid.
Speaker 3:And you know what's crazy is the ones that the ones that I'd least expect that I didn't even have a relationship with, I didn't think. Mhmm. Heard maybe something I said or did and remembers that, and I can't and I don't even I I I don't even remember the situation.
Speaker 2:Wow. Right. As soon as you said, just that thought of, well, if the kid doesn't wanna get up, wanna even stand up, I guess you just sit with him. I mean, we we have a mentor who their mentee has gone through, just a lot of challenges, and he most most of the kids in the program, they wanna play basketball, but they're mentees. This kid does not wanna play basketball.
Speaker 2:He doesn't wanna do anything, and his mentor is an athlete. He is, I mean, energetic, joyful, and he wants to do those things with his mentee. But but because his men mentee is in that place, he just I mean, every Friday, just comes and sits with him. And, like, I I have not seen them do anything but just sit down together and him talk. And, I mean, it's just exactly what you just said, and and at that, that matters.
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And so I I think that will be encouraging to any mentor who's in that spot. And so, yeah, thanks for sharing that, Jeff.
Speaker 3:You bet.
Speaker 2:It's really good. You bet.
Speaker 3:Lot of allergies in this room.
Speaker 2:Oh, man. Well, I wonder if you have any more, practical ways that mentors can apply play that we haven't haven't talked about. I know we haven't spent much time on the acknowledge, and recognition. So do you have any thoughts on how mentors can apply that or evaluate how they're they're doing in in that department?
Speaker 3:Yeah. I mean, I think acknowledgement you know, we all want to be acknowledged. We all like to hear our name. I don't, you know, I don't care who you are, how old you are. You you know, I mean, down deep inside, we we we love it when people use our name.
Speaker 3:I mean, I just got a text the other day. It it makes a difference when they say Jeff versus just a, you know, they just start off with a text, and and so it makes it more personal. So how do we acknowledge even even in even in our communication through social media? How do we acknowledge more importantly, you know, face to face? How do we receive people?
Speaker 3:You know, how do we maybe it's kind of maybe the self awareness part of maybe our body language with ours with our mentee. How do we greet you know, in in men's ministry, I would tell my men that what's so important on Sunday mornings is is really not necessarily what we say to each other. It's how we greet each other. Because when we greet each other, like, we're actually happy to see each other, then other people are watching, and they go and, you know, I I don't know if you see a bunch of men not being afraid to to hug each other, and greet each other, and be actually act happy to see one another. I think that's contagious.
Speaker 3:So I think acknowledgement is is that's huge, but, you know, acknowledging, again, like you mentioned before, constant keep you know, keeping yourself in check about why am I doing this, what's my motivation, what what's my expectation, Do I are my expectations too high? You know, do I need to back off? You know, do I need to not be worry about, being perfect, but just being present? Those kind of things. And, you know, what am I doing to acknowledge my mentee?
Speaker 3:You know, am I when I'm not with him or her again, I don't know the rules and regulations, but am I am I thinking about the next time we're gonna meet? Am I preparing for next time we meet? Or am I just showing up? Which is, you know, the most important thing, of course. But am I am I gonna, you know, acknowledge my mentee in a letter or, you know, some type of gift or acknowledge something they did, you know, that I heard that was really good, you know, and again, I know some of that some of that probably is limiting what you can do and what you have access to to have knowledge of that prior between each meetings and so forth.
Speaker 3:But I think I think that's the and then again and then, you know, where am I falling short and make a plan of action to to do better or to redirect, our our conversation or my time with my mentee next the the next time we meet, you know. So Yeah.
Speaker 2:So good, Jeff. I think that this is such a great framework for developing relationship with mentees. So, I mean, cultivating play, cultivating people in their life. Who are the most important people to them, and how can you cultivate your relationship with them as well as their relationship with them? I thought that was that was huge, is that we're building relationships through our mentor relationship, cultivating love, finding out what makes them tick, and how can we facilitate that love.
Speaker 2:How can we come alongside, what they're passionate about. Acknowledge how are we acknowledging their strengths, acknowledging them, how they feel, how are we recognizing where the relationship is going, and, and yearn. How are we cultivating our calling as mentors? How are we getting encouraged and getting back to the why behind what we're doing? And so I think that's huge, Jeff.
Speaker 2:It's so huge. I'd love if you just end our time, maybe with a challenge to a mentor who is just in a place where, like, you know, I think what I'm doing works, so I don't know. I mean, I'm I'm just gonna keep doing what I'm doing. But how would you challenge, that mentor to consider a different way, to consider cultivating play? What what are the dangers of not doing this?
Speaker 3:Well, I mean, I think it's, you can compare it to almost any relationship you have. You know, if you do the same thing over and over again, eventually, you know, whether it's your spouse or, a friend or with your own children, if you just do the same thing over and over again, I think it's just I think that's a great question to ponder in all our relationships. So with a mentee, how can I change it up? You know? If if I'm a classroom teacher and they they always know what I'm gonna do and there's no anticipation, so how do you create that's another element of play.
Speaker 3:It's how do you create anticipation? In other words, you want your mentee to be excited about the next time, you know, because they never know what you're gonna do. So there's a surprise element, which is also play. Not not surprising, you know, fear, but surprise and excitement. You know?
Speaker 3:And it's kinda like an anticipation before a game, and you're in the locker room. And you know you're gonna play this game, but you and you just already so ready to come out onto the court or the field or whatever. So it's it it's a it ends up a little bit of anxiety, but mostly excitement. So, so as a mentor, how do you keep it fresh? How do you create anticipation and an element of surprise, for every and not not just, not just a meet to meet, you know.
Speaker 3:Although consistency is is showing up and consistency is the most important thing, taking it to the next level is creating that anticipation.
Speaker 2:So good. Doctor Jeff Springer, spring strategies. Jeff, how can our people connect with you, online and, be a part of what you're doing or ask you questions to follow-up after this conversation?
Speaker 3:Yeah. They can call they can, email me at jeff@cultivatingplay.org, or they can go to the website, which is, cultivatingplay.org. And so those are those are 2 probably 2 of the best ways to contact me.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. Well, doctor Jeff Springer, thank you for your time. Listeners, please connect, with Jeff. Maybe even your organization could benefit from spring strategy. So I highly encourage you to check that out if you're interested, Jeff.
Speaker 2:I'm so glad you're my high school principal. Appreciate you, man.
Speaker 3:Proud of you, Steven. Love you.