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Better Together with Kosta Yepifantsev is a podcast about business, parenting and living life intentionally. We're here every week to bring you intentional conversations on making your own path to success, challenging the status quo, and finding all the ways we're better. Recorded in Cookeville, TN, Kosta joins guests from all walks of life to bring fresh perspective and start your week with purpose. We're better together.
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Craig Pyle: You know we become a
society that everything serves
us. And we've looked at tasks
like raising a tomato is
meaningless tasks kind of like
farming, right? It's a menial
job. Let's not do that. But they
do have meaning and they have
purpose and they have value.
Morgan Franklin: Welcome to
Better Together with Kosta
Yepifantsev. A podcast on
parenting, business, and living
life intentionally. We're here
every week to bring you
thoughtful conversation, making
your own path to success,
challenging the status quo and
finding all the ways we're
better together. Here's your
host Kosta Yepifantsev.
Kosta Yepifantsev: Hey y'all,
it's Costa. Today I'm here with
my guest, Craig Pyle, owner and
Farmer of Hidden Holly Farm, a
125 acre farm located in
Monterey, Tennessee focused on
raising animals naturally,
humanely, and sustainably.
Craig, you grew up on a farm and
you've owned a farm with your
family for the past 30 years,
there was a time when almost
every family in Tennessee had a
farm. But now you're very much
in the minority. How is this
transition changed the way we
access food and the quality of
food that we're eating?
Craig Pyle: That's a great
question. And that the
transition is not that long.
It's just been the past 100 150
years that that transition has
occurred, really started with
ultimately the Industrial
Revolution, World War One World
War Two, where all farm jobs
became the norm, people started
going off the farms. And then
the necessity was for farmers
then to raise more food. So
that's kind of how that started.
And then once they start doing
that, and you have the
Industrial Revolution,
mechanization of agriculture
came into play, which is really
when farming turned into an
industry versus farming. And
then with the mechanization you
have where they want to be
extremely efficient. So having
uniquely genetic crops to grow,
okay, everything being the same,
so they can be more efficient at
it. So you went from the early
1900s, where you had diversified
farms, where they had a few
animals on the farm and
different crops and the race,
you know, food for themselves
and tin families around them to
arms that raise just corn for
1000s of families. So as that
started, efficiency kept being
the problem. So then they would
start using I think it was in
the 40s when I had her Simone,
you became less expensive. And
so that became the fertilizer.
Okay, so synthetic fertilizers
really became into play then.
And so that happens. And when
you start having monocultures
you're heading synthetic
chemicals, the soil the or
organic life and soil goes away.
Or there's a difference between
dirt and soil. All that affects
quality of food and stuff. And
then at the same time, you know,
animals, the same thing is
happening to them that's
happening to crops they're being
raised to, you know, instead of
having a cow on the farm and a
couple of goats and a couple of
pigs, you have pig farms with
1000s of pigs. Again, that
transition kept happening where
the confinement and
consolidation of these things,
that's when Capo unit so
confined, animal feeding
operations came into play. And
those were necessities, if you
will, because as they kept
trying to control the animals
feed the animals disease was a
big problem. Sure, you know, soy
farmers in an effort to get out
of all that stuff started using
barns. And that helped them
control the manure, urine feed
and more efficiently because
instead of one guy feeding 10
There's one guy feeding 1000s.
And with that course, in the
50s, I think is when antibiotics
came in around so they had a lot
of problem with that and then
you start add antibiotics to to
keep them healthy in those
difficult environments. You
know, a confined feeding
operation is very challenging to
keep animals healthy, right? And
so that's why antibiotics were
so prolifically used in
agriculture. And so you roll all
that up, and then we're kind of
where we are today where you
know, high antibiotic use, which
has been an issue and everybody
recognizes that now so let's use
less of though So that's
affected the quality of our
meat, okay, you have soils that
are not really soil anymore. So
the quality and nutritional
value of the food, whether it be
the animal that eats the food
off of it, or the person that
he's the food off of it is way
down. I mean, the health has
been truly affected by all the
concentration and the
industrialization of the food,
whether it be a raised product
from the soil or an animal,
Kosta Yepifantsev: how does the
soil not having the same level
of nutrients of fact, the
nutrients that the crops have?
Craig Pyle: Excellent question.
I guess the main thing is, we as
humans cannot duplicate what God
can do in the soil, the soil is
a living ecosystem within
itself. And you know, the
example I would use would be a
strawberry. If you have a
strawberry that's raised in a,
in a flower bed with purely
synthetic fertilizers, you can
make it really, really big,
really, really bright red, and
really, really full of water,
which is yield, and color and
appearance. Right, right. And
that sounds good. But it doesn't
taste very good. Because we
cannot mimic what what the soil
does to put in actual nutrients
and taste and in the product.
And I believe there'll be a time
when farmers are paid. True
farmers are paid by the
nutritional value, that product
actually contains fastening,
which cannot be achieved with a
synthetic fertilizer.
Kosta Yepifantsev: So we're
talking about crops that are
genetically modified, we're
talking about, I mean, huge
operations where you have pigs,
and you have cattle by the
1000s, right in these pens,
chickens. And I watched Food
Inc. I don't know if you've ever
seen that movie, but it's a
great documentary on Netflix,
that talks a little bit about
our, essentially our our food
processes, but it's an old
documentary, it was like back in
2009, if I'm not mistaken. So
when you go all the way back?
Why did we decide to make this
transition from family farms and
everybody having a hand in our
food supply chain, to kind of
blowing it all up? And deciding
that, you know, we can rely on
massive corporations. And if I'm
not mistaken, international
supply chains to be able to meet
our needs.
Craig Pyle: That's multiple
parts to that question. The
first part of which we kind of
just talked about with the
industrial revolution, people
left the farm, so somebody else
has got to grow it. So it was by
necessity, was by necessity, the
farmers that started feeding
animals and concentrated animal
feeding operations weren't bad.
But that's what they had to do
with what they had to work with.
But we know better today
Kosta Yepifantsev: was it to
keep prices down, were they
trying to make food more
accessible and more affordable
for people. And they were trying
to fix the bottlenecks when it
came to people having access to
food. And so they thought if we
can do this to scale, and we can
bring the prices down and more
people will have access to I
don't want to say nutritional
food. But I would just want to
say just food in general was
that the intent, a huge
Craig Pyle: part of it is
absolutely scale. In my example,
I can raise a pig. And it cost
me $5,000 To raise this pig.
Because of all the stuff I have
around it, then I could raise
100 pigs and divide the
infrastructure across it or so
scale is important at all
levels. But at some point, it
gets too big. I see. And you
can't take care of the needs of
the animals. To me, that's where
the line is. And
Kosta Yepifantsev: that's where
we're going to talk about. So
here are the facts. According to
the US Bureau of Labor
Statistics, prices for food at
home are 27.39% higher in 2024
versus 2014. Over the past 10
years, food prices have gone up
almost 30% And we have no
control over what's your message
to listeners about taking
control of their own food
production.
Craig Pyle: Clarification, when
you say take over their own food
production, do you mean raising
their own food or just being
involved in it?
Kosta Yepifantsev: I would say
both.
Craig Pyle: Okay, perfect.
So I think it takes both because
I'm a farmer, but I can't do it
all. I'm not a good vegetable
farmer. We raised we have a few
vegetables, but that's not our
thing. So if I had a neighbor
that raised vegetables, that
would be who I would go to for
my vegetable, right? So I think
it takes a village. So my advice
to people would be ultimately,
the word I want to use is
participate. As Americans as a
culture, we do not participate
in food. What we do is consume
it, right? We pick and choose
what we want and we're consumers
but we don't participate in the
food system. So all the things
that make up that, whether it be
how healthy it is nutritional
value it is or not nutritional
or how much of it. We've handed
over the responsibility of that
to bureaucracies. Sure. And And
at no point, are we asking the
right questions, if you will. So
we need to participate in it.
Understand food labels, we'd
like to be experts at it, but
understand what they mean and
what they don't tell you. And
what they do tell you, because
what they don't say is just as
important as what they say, this
is a huge issue for our country,
I believe it. And my advice
would be for everybody to
participate. I think that most
people could raise a few
chickens. So it doesn't take
much to raise chickens, right?
They don't have to have a lot of
land to have five layer hands
and have eggs for a family.
Yeah. And they are they're
excellent. They're the best
composter on the farm. People
who didn't used to buy grain for
chickens, they had as many
chickens as they had food
scraps, you know. So having a
few chickens is a great way to
start cheap, not hard. Anybody
can raise a few tomatoes, get
compost are thrown compost pile,
so that they can have a
nutritious better soil to raise
tomatoes.
Kosta Yepifantsev: I mean, you
know, it sounds like 100%
foreign to so many people, when
we talk about raising chickens,
we've tried to do some vegetable
planting, unsuccessful, but we
are going to try again this
year, every year we get into
spring and we're like, this is
the year we're gonna get some
pots, we're gonna plant some
seeds. We're gonna buy some some
already, you know, grown bushes.
And they never quite come to
fruition. But this year, I think
we're gonna have some success.
Do you ever get anxiety about
the fact that your message may
be falling on deaf ears?
Craig Pyle: No, I don't have
anxiety about it. The journey
I'm on. I love raising food. And
I love teaching people about
food, what I know, and
continuing my journey. But it's
an incredibly humbling
experience to go through this.
Born in the 60s, raised on Froot
Loops, if you will, you know,
stuff out of a box to we myself,
all of us have been complicit in
this process. And still are. And
all of us whether we're getting
better, if you will, are still
complicit at some point. I
wasn't born and I know
everything about this and
imperfect. So I don't get
anxiety about it. I get
concerned that how do we the
community that I'm involved
with, get the message out so
that it can actually benefit
people the most? How do we get
that done? And this podcast is I
think one of the answers for
that.
Kosta Yepifantsev: Speaking
specifically about your
specialty, all natural farm
raised meat. What's the
difference between the meat
we're buying at a Kroger or
Publix for example, and the meat
we buy from you? Where does the
meat from big box stores
normally come from?
Craig Pyle: Well comes from
everywhere. It could be from
Argentina, our food system at
this point is global. It is
absolutely global. A fact here,
America is known to be the grain
capital of the world, yet 80% of
the organic grain and put
organic in quotation marks comes
from overseas. Fascinating. That
is fascinating. It is all it
should be also concerning. How
is that possible? That's another
whole rabbit hole we get into.
So knowing that it's global,
that your meat could come from
anywhere and actually be labeled
as a USA product. I think
consumers need to know because
if we were to take a pig that is
harvested in China, cut up in
China packaged sent to the
United States packaged opened,
repackage differently. It could
have a USA label on and really
right. So country of origin CUI
labeling, which they're still
working on is a real thing. And
that's why labeling is so
important.
Kosta Yepifantsev: So you're
saying that it could be USDA,
but it could be from a different
country? Yes, sir. And it won't
tell you what country it's from
because there is no country of
origin label. That's right. Wow,
that's fascinating. Because
here's the thing, when I think
of meat, specifically, when I go
to the grocery store, I'm
assuming that this is all being
raised and developed in the
United States. You know, I'm
assuming that the chickens are
in a chicken factory somewhere,
you know, in Tennessee, North
Carolina, Georgia, what what
have you and that cattle is from
the Midwest? And you're saying
that most of the time or if you
could maybe give give a
percentage is this the majority
that it's that it's coming from
out of the United States? Or is
it a small percentage of meat
that we're purchasing? How big
is this problem? I guess is the
question.
Craig Pyle: That fluctuates I
want to say for poultry and pork
is not as prevalent as it is in
beef. Okay. And right now, the
beef in our country. There are
less cows in the United States
now than there were in the 70s
Wow, we're obviously still
eating beef. So it's got to come
from somewhere.
Kosta Yepifantsev: Well, and so
I watched a 60 minutes on this,
actually. So embryos are sent to
Mexico, and they are raised, the
cows are raised in Mexico. And
once they get to a certain age
that they're then transported
back to the United States to
finish, like the feed process
and then taking the slaughter.
Are you saying that eventually,
if we keep going down this road,
we won't even have that second
half of the process? We'll just
have them all in Mexico to the
point towards slaughtered and
then done, taken to the United
States opened up repackaged.
Here's USDA beef.
Craig Pyle: I think it's
possible. Okay. I don't know
that it all be that way. But I
do think it's possible is gonna
be more that way. Are
Kosta Yepifantsev: other
countries in terms of
regulation? Are they less
regulated in the United States?
And what type of impact does
that have?
Craig Pyle: That's a really good
question. And I would focus on
the EU right now, you've
probably seen a lot of the
farmers protesting over there in
the EU, the EU is a lot more
regulatory, constrictive than we
are much more so I think half a
Parliament's budget is
subsidizing poor farmers. So
it's a massive piece of their
budget. And that's kind of
really why they're protesting.
Because if you're struggling for
money, and 50% of your budget is
farm subsidies, where do you go
to cut first? Farming? Right?
That's a big issue over there.
So they're much more regulated
than we are? And why that
concerns me is a lot of a lot of
things. We follow Europe. You
know, they're sometimes like
five years ahead of us. If we
look to Europe as what is going
to happen to our food system,
imagine what our prices would be
like here. You know, if we
continue down the regulatory
path that they are, it'll be
much worse.
Kosta Yepifantsev: Wow. And I
mean, it can't get much worse in
terms of costs. It's already up
30%, you know?
Craig Pyle: Well, I don't know.
I don't know if you're right
there. Yeah,
Kosta Yepifantsev: when I went
to the grocery store in Europe,
it is significantly more
expensive than the United
States. Significantly more.
That's right, it is laudable,
and what a lot of people don't
understand and then we're gonna
move on, because I know we're
going to take a lot of time if I
go down this rabbit hole, but
what a lot of people don't
understand is, there is a huge
percentage of sales that are
attributed to the SNAP program,
the Food Stamp Program. And when
I say sales, I mean by grocery
stores, big grocery stores like
Kroger or Publix, you know, all
these what have you. So, if the
prices of food go up, the food
stamps have to go up too, which
means the tax burden on the
regular American goes up as
well. And so a lot of people
don't correlate that but as food
prices go up, it's not just that
we spend more money on food,
it's that we have to fund the
snap programs so that people can
afford to eat as well that have
these food stamps. And it's not
just poor people with people on
a fixed income that are elderly.
I mean, it has long term
outsized effects that people
just aren't aware of.
Craig Pyle: It just a quick
comment about that, you know,
when I think of the food system
we have, it is regulated
heavily. And you know, from my
chair, the heavy regulation that
we have is bad. There's too much
of it, it restricts food choice,
it restricts the small farmer,
there's lots of reasons that I
think it's bad or not what I
would prefer. The other part
about that is when you when you
look at the food industry, and
how much it's regulated and the
way food prices are, and you
compare that to say, the drug
industry, the medical industry,
most heavily regulated industry
we have and look at prices,
right? So there's an absolute
correlation between regulation
and price
Kosta Yepifantsev: and health
outcomes. Same thing with the
nutritional outcomes of food
100%.
Craig Pyle: And I wish that we
as a culture could look at those
two things and connect those
dots and go, Aha, because I
think it's massive.
Kosta Yepifantsev: What does
sustainable food production look
like? And how does it impact our
community and the environment
overall?
Craig Pyle: Wow, sustainable
agriculture or regenerative
agriculture that they're very
similar terms are buzzwords too,
so we have to be careful with
that. Sustainable has several
facets to it. And everything
from the economics of the
farmer, to the environment are
all considered and I've written
some of them down so I wouldn't
make sure I missed some of
these. So that's a really
important question. The first
one that I would talk about is
pollution. Sustainable
Agriculture is reducing
pollution. It's stopping the run
off. The example would be the
big blooms algae blooms in the
Great Lakes and the Gulf because
of runoff but especially with
commercial fertilizers it could
be with with manure, too from
feedlots, but all of that is a
big problem. And I have to say,
you know, we have lots of
regulation around that. But is
it getting better? I would argue
no. And when we say people say
that farming is a big
environmental crisis, they're
right. But it's not farming is
the method of farming. And it's
sustainable agriculture is a
solution to a lot of those
problems. Another point that is
saving water, you know, you
think when you think of
agriculture and water, you think
of California can't get enough
water can't get enough water
can't get enough water. Okay,
what about measuring how much
water the land can hold? Not how
much you can get. But when you
have dirt, and you put water in,
it turns to a rock. When you
have soil it absorbs it and use
it so you can measure how much
water ground your field can
absorb in an hour. And that is
an actual metric that people
like me look at when I have rain
is my is the water running off
the pasture staying in the
pasture. So saving water is a
big deal. And that's the way to
do it. And it's very different
paradigm than what we think
right. Another one would be the
natural maintaining of soil
fertility by recycling the
nutrients on the farm. I don't
use chemical fertilizers. I
don't go to coop and buy a
triple 19 I have manure, I don't
sell manure because it's like
gold to me. Right. That's what I
need on the farm. Exactly. And
so you know, using composting
woodchips, then whatever food
scraps I have, or old hay that I
can get from somebody else that
don't want it and using all that
to continually build my soil
makes my ground produce more
food for my animals. So just
keeping that circle going, keep
it on the farm is critical.
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destination. It seems that all
of these things seem like a no
brainer.
I guess like the million dollar
question. Why are they choosing
not to do this? Like what is the
drawback by making sure the soil
is healthy, making sure that
water is conserved. I mean, it
just seems like it would
increase the efficiency.
Craig Pyle: Well, you can save
money farming by using natural
resources. The problem comes in
when you're trying to not mono
crop but have diversified crops,
okay? Because if you want if you
have a mechanized operation
where you're picking corn, and
you have tomatoes planted in
there, that's a very big one.
Yeah, to farm like we do is
work, okay, and it's not as
efficient as we've made
industrial farming to be. So
that is the big rub. The
commercial farmers have no
problem with saving money on
fertilizer, if they can make
that work. And some of them are
making a change, you'll see
people that are changing from
from conventional till to no
till, and trying to apply cover
crops more often so that fields
aren't laying barren throughout
the year. Because if you drop by
field, there's nothing on the
wintertime you see the wind
blowing, that's dirt leaving the
field. The number one problem I
believe when the EPA was founded
was erosion. Well, the number
one problem today is erosion.
Kosta Yepifantsev: Can I ask you
though, with regards to GMOs,
and also just meat that has too
many antibiotics in it that just
is not the type of meat that you
that you raise? What are the the
significant implications of
eating genetically modified
foods of eating meat that has
too many antibiotics in it? What
are some of the consequences of
that?
Craig Pyle: I think that the
consequences of those are our
health. Okay. And I believe that
that is probably the most
misunderstood problem that we
have the experiments not over.
Right, you know, just beginning.
Exactly. You know, all of the
autoimmune diseases that we have
is documented that those things
can be corrected with diet food
as medicine. So all of the
advancements that we think we've
done and there's been good
things come out of those can't
knock that but the food should
be medicine. It should be
healthy for us and all these
GMOs and synthetic vaccines and
things Things like that are, in
my opinion, and based on the
research I've done, all going to
affect our health negatively
over the long term. And the
reason people don't, you know,
get on it quickly is because
it's not acute. If you go to a
restaurant or go to my farm and
eat, something gets sick, it's a
cute, right? You had food
poisoning, right? But when you
have trans fats, and you're
eating trans fats, it took a
long time for that to happen.
Right? By the way, trans fats
were approved by the FDA. And it
was only the public outcry that
made them change. Yeah,
Kosta Yepifantsev: and what I've
heard, and maybe you can add
some validity to this as GMOs
affect the composition of our
DNA. So, I mean, it's like,
you're taking a food that really
doesn't exist in nature, and
consuming it in your body's
processing it. And there's
components of it that we're not
quite familiar with. So
Craig Pyle: I think there's a
lot to learn that we don't know.
And I wish, I wish we would
start turning the ship and not
learn it.
Kosta Yepifantsev: Well, are we
though, like, are we turning? I
mean, obviously, you're you're
very well versed in what we
should be doing. I am not, and I
tried to buy organic, but it's
one of those one step forward,
two steps back, you know, I'm
thinking that I'm doing the
right thing by eating organic.
And then I find out that well,
organic is subjective. You know,
organic can mean a lot of
different things. And so then
I'm like, Okay, well, we'll just
go to the farmers market, and
we'll just buy food there. I
have four kids. And it's hard to
make sure that you're there
between eight and 12 on a
Saturday. I mean, I know it's an
excuse. But if that's the only
time that you can buy fresh
produce is eight to 12 on a
Saturday, you know, I mean, we
should make it more accessible,
I guess. That's right. As we
discussed earlier, food costs
are up almost 30%. In the past
10 years, prices at the grocery
store are a concern for most
Americans. How can we bridge the
gap to provide access to quality
all natural food while
acknowledging the never ending
struggle to keep up with
inflated grocery prices?
Craig Pyle: That's a huge
question. And I don't think that
food prices are going to go down
anytime in the near future. I
don't know if they ever will.
What I do know is first you have
just inflation for whatever the
consumer goods are that it takes
to make food. Diesel fuel cost
me more today than it cost me
five years ago. Yeah. So those
things affect all of us, right?
I guess an example that that
bothers me is if I take a pig to
the processor, and I processed
you know, typical cuts, you
know, bacon, which is we have a
smoked and cured naturally will
have hams that are smoked and
cured. Naturally, we cut all the
fresh cuts, however somebody
wants to have sausage made so
nothing fancy, but just good
stuff. That's a $530 price tag
to have been processed by a USDA
processor. Now it could cost a
little less if you want to do it
as a custom and you're not
selling it right. But for me to
produce it for you cost that
just to process the pig. And
that wasn't the cost of the
animal, the feed for the animal
330 pound pig, I can easily have
$1,100 in this pig before I get
it to you. Now, Smithfield can
process a pig for $17 prior to
COVID?
Kosta Yepifantsev: No way.
Craig Pyle: That's what a scale
does for you. Wow. So it's, it's
really difficult for people to
buy product and understand why
this porkchop costs $3 A pound
and Craig's costs $15. Why is
that? Well, then I can show him
the spreadsheet, but they still
understand that the cost of
their health, the cost of the
environmental concerns are not
included in that, you know,
government subsidies take care
of a lot of those things where
the government doesn't help me.
All those things are factored in
and matter but yet all the
consumer sees when they go to
Kroger's is that price tag.
Okay, so
Kosta Yepifantsev: how does
reducing regulation contribute
to lower prices and more
accessible food?
Craig Pyle: First and basic
example I would give you would
be the USDA processing. You come
visit me on the farm for a farm
tour. And I decide to cook
dinner for us. Okay, I can take
my pork that I theoretically
harvested that day. On my farm,
I can cut us the most fresh pork
chops you've ever had cook it
for you. And you can eat it and
it's okay to do. However, off
that same pig that you just ate
a pork chop from if I put it in
a package and sell it to you for
$1 I've committed a crime,
fasten it. And so let's
understand it in order to not
commit the crime. I have to have
that filet porkchop inspected
for you. Now, if you come to the
farm and I give you heroin,
everybody knows that's unsafe.
It's illegal to give it to you
and it's illegal to sell it But
I can give you pork, but I can't
sell you pork. So to me, it's
not as much about food safety as
it is about commerce. Yeah, it's
about the dollar changing hands,
brawl, milk, milk cows, all my
young kid life, right? That's
what we did, we had a milk cow.
And we never had pasteurized we
strained it through a cloth and
frigerator and we drank it.
Right? But it's illegal to sell
you milk, it's illegal to sell
you milk from a cow that's not
pasteurized. Think about that.
So how would I reduce cost? It's
probably a 30 to 40% increase in
costs to have a animal processed
under USDA inspection versus
not?
Kosta Yepifantsev: Do you think
that they? Meaning when I say
they, I mean the federal
government, they just aren't
confident that there's enough
good actors in the farming
community? Or do you think that
they're just not enough farmers
in general? And so they're like,
Well, you know, we're going to
create a process a standardized
process. And as can get kind of
complicated, but y'all bear with
me a standardized process for
big commercial farms. And that's
going to do 90% of the legwork.
And then family farms will do
the other 10%. They may not like
the regulation, but they're in
the minority in terms of
affecting the overall food
supply. And you can agree with
me or not whether that's the
case. But if that is the case,
how do you incentivize this kind
of a technical question, but
incentivize Americans to change
their behavior so that it
changes the regulation?
Craig Pyle: That's a really good
question. And I can't really say
that I've thought about that. In
those terms. I do agree with
you, that I think the primary
intent of the regulations are
good. I think they want to do
the right thing. But it's
bureaucracy, and it adds cost,
Kosta Yepifantsev: right? And
it's a big business,
Craig Pyle: it absolutely is a
big business. And it does, it
definitely doesn't support the
small business. And I guess,
small farmers are just not a big
piece of the puzzle. So we're
not going to influence them. So
how do we get Americans to start
flipping the switch? To me, it
has to be the health and
environmental argument, because
our raw cracy is not improving
our health. Bureaucracy is not
improving our environment. But
we we are a solution to those
problems done this
Kosta Yepifantsev: way. I'm
gonna dig down just a little bit
deeper. When we're talking about
our health, I would say that
relative to like, my parents,
and people that grew up in the
50s 60s, and 70s, we are much
more health conscious than they
were, if we are becoming more
health conscious. But we're not
really seeing that translate to
better quality food. Are we
being lied to? Or are we not
being told the entire truth
about what we're eating? And
what effect that has on our
bodies? Not to put you on the
spot, but I'm trying to
understand because it seems like
we are all moving in the right
direction. And it's kind of
like, okay, you played sports,
okay. So like football,
basketball, and actually
wrestling. Great. All right. So
it's like your coach is telling
you all the things that you need
to do to be successful. And you
are applying those things to win
the match, right? So you get to
the match your opponent's in
front of you, you use all the
things that you were taught to
win. And you realize, at some
point in the match, that you
were set up to fail, it kind of
feels like that, for a regular
average consumer, that's health
conscious that's trying to live
a healthy life that's trying to
improve the longevity of their
life. Every time I think I'm
doing the right thing when it
comes to food and eating and
diet. I always get let down. So
I mean, why
Craig Pyle: thinking of
examples, one that's been in the
media, and we've all probably
very aware of the antibiotics
now, right? So the public has
pushed on big business to take
antibiotics out of food, and
rightfully so. And that's what
it took to get people to move
off dead center and start taking
antibiotics that were just
applied. And we did it to back
in when I was a kid we gave
animals antibiotics just because
you put them to the head gate,
right? But now, they don't want
that and for good reason. So
what started that and is about
health conditions in these Capo
units. I mean, to keep animals
healthy, that's what they had to
do. So how are they managing to
keep animals healthy? But yet
the capo units haven't went
away? To me. That's a big
question. Right? What is not
said is they don't say medicine
free. They say antibiotic free.
I would say that the new
antibiotic or that vaccines. It
is not antibiotics anymore. The
vaccine industry is not being
invested in the vaccine industry
is being invested in politics.
So
Kosta Yepifantsev: you're saying
the vaccines that are given to
the animals is what's replaced
essentially the antibiotics?
Craig Pyle: That would be one of
the things? I would think it's
happening. Yes, very much. So,
Kosta Yepifantsev: you see this
spinach, like the amount of E.
coli that comes out of these
spinach farms. You read you
look, you literally watch the
news. And you're thinking to
yourself, like, what can I eat?
But say, the healthy foods you
never see a problem with like
Captain Crunch? You know, having
a recall.
Craig Pyle: Another example is
pork specifically. So now a lot
of the commercial pork, and I'm
not sure exactly every state,
but they're giving them the m&r
a vaccine. The synthetic
vaccine, the base, if you will,
they're not making vaccines with
the live egg yolk anymore.
Right. It's just like part of
the COVID
Kosta Yepifantsev: vaccinators,
right, Pfizer and moderna
vaccine. They were mRNA.
Exactly.
Craig Pyle: So they're giving
that to pigs. All right. So
people on my side of the fence,
if you will, don't want that to
happen. So they've been
challenging that. But instead of
saying don't put it in the meat,
what they've asked them to do is
label it. But they won't label
it. So I don't think it's hard
to answer the question as to
what's happening when they will
not they being bureaucracy or
big business, or whatever it is,
they will not label it for
what's at it.
Kosta Yepifantsev: Tennessee has
agriculture on the state seal.
It's obviously like a huge part
of our identity as a state. When
you talk to leaders at the UN,
I'm not I'm not going to put
anybody on the spot. But when
you talk to leaders at the state
legislature, it seems kind of
like a no brainer that they
would say Tennessee is off
limits, that we need to be
moving towards the path that
you're describing, embracing
this collaboration between
Tennesseans making sure that
small farms are supported. Do
you feel like it's a difficult
needle to thread in a state like
Tennessee? Because if it doesn't
happen here, it's not going to
happen anywhere?
Craig Pyle: Yeah, I hear what
you're saying. And I don't know
that I know the answer.
Kosta Yepifantsev: Do you feel
like you're supported as the
small farm operation? A local
farmer?
Craig Pyle: That's a complicated
question, or an answer, I don't
want to support. Okay. In our
country, we do have quite a few
subsidies and grants that are
available for farmers, you know,
I could apply for a grant and
get new barns built, I could,
and they would help me pay for
that I could apply for grants
for fencing or water
infrastructure and qualify for
those and get that assistance,
and it would help my farm. To
me, it's a philosophical
problem. Why is my business okay
to get those subsidies and the
hairdresser down the street?
Not? So, to me, that's a
problem. I don't approve of
governments picking winners and
losers. I believe that it should
be in the market, and that you
should be purchasing my products
because you think it's better
than hers, or vice versa? Yeah.
Not because the government says
so. So I don't want and I don't
think we should have all the
government intervention that we
have today. I'm not sure
answered your question. But
that's how I feel about it. You
did
Kosta Yepifantsev: it to be to
be totally honest. More people
need to have that type of
perspective. Because what you
just said was, just let me run
my business. And let me help
people the way that I think is
best. And let's bring them on
board. Your there is no standard
of practice when it comes to
consuming food. At least not
there doesn't have to be.
America is built on small
businesses. And when you take
away their component of being
creative, and sustainable, and
potentially successful, because
you're picking winners and
losers. You end up with a
monopoly.
Craig Pyle: Yes, sir. Great.
Kosta Yepifantsev: Let's talk
about hidden Hawley farms and
how you're personally taking
back the responsibility of
humane and sustainable farming
practices to give the upper
Cumberland the best meat options
available. What is this
philosophy look like from the
raising to the processing?
That's the
Craig Pyle: heart of what we do
it again, I grew up on a farm
and it was a commercial
operation small commercial
operation. But we didn't have
Capo units right? We had cows on
pasture and stuff. I thought
that's the way you did
everything was the way we did it
as a youngster so I learned that
better of it just in the past
several years is is is I've
researched and I want to raise
pigs well how do you best do
that? And I started reading and
learning and the more I read
learned, the more this is the
way I should be doing it. So
ultimately what that led me to
was regenerative agriculture.
And then to make that even a
little more, I guess, specific,
it's raising animals and Mother
Nature's image. How did God
intend for these animals to be?
Because he gave us the earth? He
gave us the animals? How did he
intend for us to take care of
them? And so that's what we try
to do. Ideally, the diet, what
diet are these animals designed
to eat? That's what I want to
get, what type of environment,
you know, pastures woodlands are
these animals supposed to be in?
And how do I manage them,
protect them. And at the same
time, give them the most of that
environment that I can. So that
that's, that's what we do. So
chickens, we have free rein some
chickens, and sometimes we do
still free range some but what
we do is we have these mobile
coops with these big fenced in
electric fenced areas, so they
can go out and they do whatever
they want to do. But we have to
have some protection for the
coyotes just eat them, right.
That's how I've struck a
balance, right? They're outside
every day they're walking,
they're eatin bugs are eating
grass, being what chickens do.
So they're not cooped up in a
spot. But yet they have
protection at night from coyotes
and a house, the pigs, I do not
have a pig bar, we have a barn
on the farm. But we do not raise
our pigs and barns we do not
even have baby pigs and barns.
The first thing I was told,
Well, Craig, you gotta get a
barn, you gotta get heat lamps
because your babies won't live.
And well, that's true if you're
raising a commercial pig. And
you don't understand what their
environment needs look like, and
you help them with it. So we buy
heritage breed pigs that have
origin capability that had
nesting capabilities, it blew my
mind when I saw my first
Berkshire pig, make a nest, wow,
and have babies in the womb
cool. We've had babies on the
ground last winter, and below
zero temperatures this winter,
in that cold snap, I didn't lose
anything. You give them enough
hay to have around them and
protection from a little bit of
wind and they can survive a lot.
Kosta Yepifantsev: How do you
feel about like the impossible
meat and all those vegan mean
options?
Craig Pyle: How do I feel about
that? I don't know if I can say
that out loud right now. I think
it's horrible. People can I
think I think people should have
the choice to eat what they
want. And that's fine if
somebody wants to eat impossible
meat. And that's their choice,
what I think is they should
understand and be given the
information so that they can
make the decision about it. You
take something much, much
simpler than meat, I mean, the
impossible meat that's raised in
a vat with E. coli proteins,
just just think about this,
we're having to raise this meat
in a vat that was a protein. And
there's other things that grow
in there. And how do we kill
that? Well, we have to kill it.
And then we have to make sure
that the protein in there
survive. So it has to be
antibiotic resistant? Doesn't
that sound conflicting with what
we're trying to do? That really,
really bothers me. But I think
people need to understand what's
in it. And I don't think anybody
understands yet what the
implications of that are on our
hill on a big scale. So I don't
like it at all.
Kosta Yepifantsev: Can I tease
out one thing that I think is
important for the audience to
hear. And at some point, if I'm
not making sense, or if I'm on
the on the wrong track, just
stop me. When we go to the
store, and we're buying
processed foods, the best way to
think about that processed food
is it started as a raw
ingredient. And then it got
processed because it needed to
kill off some bad things. And
then it got processed again,
because it needed to kill off
some more bad things. And then
it needed to have some things
added to it. Enriched. Right?
And so by the time that we get
to the finished product that we
buy in the store that's been
processed and processed and
processed. We are consuming
correct me if I'm wrong, a
chemical cocktail. Yes, sir. Oh,
absolutely agree. Okay, so just
remember that when when you go
to the store and believe me, I'm
I am just as much to blame when
I eat cookies. I'm not you know,
getting cookie dough from
scratch, and I'm getting total
house package and I'm sticking
it in the bakery. Sorry, in the
oven to bake it and eating
chocolate chip cookies. The same
thing you know, with Laffy Taffy
is I'm not you know, making my
own right, we all have our
weaknesses. Exactly, exactly.
But that's a good way in my
opinion, I think to look at how
processed foods are affected. If
Craig Pyle: I could say just
something here, the journey that
we're on any of us as
individuals were at different
spots in that journey. And
nobody I don't believe should
try to you know, eat the
elephant all at once, right?
That's just impossible. You're
gonna fail. You know, take small
steps, get better at something,
go to the next thing and just
keep getting better and better
and a lot People do the 8020
rule, you know, sometimes the
ice cream, maybe I shouldn't,
but I'm blessed with some pretty
good health. So I kind of my
body can seem to afford some of
that right here. Maybe some
people can't. They're all
different, but just take little
steps and keep working towards
that goal. What
Kosta Yepifantsev: is step one?
Like if you could pick one spot,
whether it's you know, buying
organic milk, or just buying
organic? Or if it's, I know, I
know, you're probably going to
say you should stop eating
processed foods. But let's just
say you can't afford to stop
eating processed foods, what
would be a good diet shift that
people can do to be more
healthy? Well,
Craig Pyle: buying organic foods
is better. That's a whole nother
rabbit hole. But yes, so what a
person could afford would be
better. And they're all going to
be more expensive than that in
the process foods,
unfortunately. So if money is
the hurdle to eating healthier,
then what I suggest is grow
something, literally start with
raising a vegetable, you can
spend $1 and a half on a tomato
plant and get lots of tomatoes.
That's right. I mean, it's a lot
cheaper than going to the store
to us with some effort. And you
know, we become a society that
everything serves us. And we've
looked at tasks like raising a
tomato is meaningless tasks,
kind of like farming, right?
It's the menial job, let's not
do that. But they do have
meaning and they have purpose,
and they have value to us. So I
believe we should be doing it.
Kosta Yepifantsev: And you can
get a pot, even if you live in
an apartment, you can still get
a pot and you can plant a tomato
plant and you can have tomatoes,
you know, you don't have to have
a yard or acreage to be able to
do that. That's right. Yep.
Before we go, I want to give a
call to action to any restaurant
owners who have listened to this
episode and are considering
where they should buy their meat
from, how can businesses work
with you? And also, where can we
buy your products?
Craig Pyle: Great. We'll start
with where to buy our products,
of course, the farms in
Monterey. We have a website that
has a store on the on the
website. So you can purchase
products right from there.
What's the website, www hidden
Holly farm.com everything we
have is there you can order pay
for it. Then we have meetup
spot. Sometimes I set a meetup
spot at my church. On some
Saturdays, there might be a
farmers market in the future
that I might join where I would,
you know, meet people there for
orders and whatnot. We also have
farm pickup, I have certain days
when you order you could just
come to the farm and pick it up
right there. It's in a bag ready
to go. Of course, farm tours are
good. I've given farm tours and
showing people what's going on.
I
Kosta Yepifantsev: mean, I'm
gonna come over for dinner.
Absolutely.
Craig Pyle: So those are all
ways to buy our product. very
new at this. So that's that's
what I have going on. I would
like to have more meetup spots
at different spots within our
region, if you will, say your
subdivision or where you live
area might have 20 people that
might like our product, well
that I could meet at your house
and delivered all those people
once a month, something like
that. And what all are you
selling the primary thing is
pork, pretty much anything and
everything pork all the way from
whole life pig you want to buy
that we've had people come to
the farm is pretty cool when a
family comes to the farm to get
a pig or a roasting dinner. And
they'll bring their children
like a grandson and how we help
them harvest a pig. And they'll
participate in that at some
level, put it in their truck and
they they go off to go roast a
pig. I mean, that's the neat
experience. So you can buy a
whole pig, you can buy a whole
pig as processed in the box
ready to go. Or you can buy a
single pork chop or sausage,
whatever suits you. So
Kosta Yepifantsev: it's hidden
Holly farm, we raised pork, beef
as well. We raised
Craig Pyle: some beef and we
raised some chicken, beef I'm
out of right now. And I'm really
trying to keep that very small.
Okay, we're focusing on pork.
Already, we do raise quite a bit
of chicken. Have
Kosta Yepifantsev: you
considered going to some of the
restaurant tours here in town so
that they partner with you?
Because I know Snake River is a
very well known operation that
provides beef to a lot of
restaurants, higher end
restaurants, etc. And I'll be
honest with you, I mean, it's
hard to find a good steak and
cokeville or a good pork chop
for that matter. Is that
something that's in your future?
Or are you going to continue
just going direct to consumer?
Craig Pyle: No, it's definitely
in our future. In fact, I'm
gonna withhold the name of the
restaurant. But we are actually
in a deal with a restaurant. We
made our first delivery to that
restaurant yesterday.
Kosta Yepifantsev: Nice. Oh,
yeah, it was quite exciting for
me. And we'll see it on the
menu.
Craig Pyle: You will see my name
or the hidden high farm on the
menu. Yes, I'm very excited
about it. I'm okay with
restaurants further out, if you
will, but I really want to get
this one going and make sure
we've got a really good thing
going to help me with the
exposure if you will. It's
social proof. And I think once I
get that beyond me and my
operation grows to be able to
support this plus the direct to
consumer business I had then I
could look for another
restaurant One
Kosta Yepifantsev: more
question. And then we're gonna
wrap up. You've been in farming
for 30 years. But it sounds like
you're just now going from a
farming to running a small
business, I guess you could say.
So before you took on this new
venture, what did you do? I
mean, what did you just raise
crop and sell it at market? Or?
I mean, what what exactly did
you do for the last 3040 years?
Well,
Craig Pyle: as far as the farm
was concerned, it didn't do a
lot. So my daughters had three
daughters, my oldest is 25,
we've had the farm for 30 years.
So when I first bought the farm,
I was absolutely raising a few
animals trying to sell them
exactly kind of what I'm doing
now, but at a much smaller
scale. So I was trying that and
then get married. And I have
these three lovely daughters.
And life becomes about raising
them school dance lessons,
clarinet lessons, and so forth.
So really, the focus was raising
the girls. Yeah, you know, my
day job career, and the farm was
there. It was more of a hobby at
the time, you know, we have a
pony or, you know, we have a few
goats every once in a while, but
there was never I didn't have
the time to invest like I would
like to. Now there are girls are
grown, they're often school. And
as that was happening, COVID
hit? Well, as I said, we've
always had something on the
farm. So when COVID hit, we had
meat in the freezer. So when the
shelves were bare, and the food
system was just derailing, if
you will, it wasn't a big deal
for us. Because we had food in
the freezer, we didn't have
everything. So the variety was a
lot less, but we were not going
to go hungry. As I'm thinking.
And this is not good. I mean, I
like raise them own food. But
should I be a part of the
solution? And how do I do that?
So that's kind of how that
direction went. And then the
research got more and more,
because I'm just gonna raise the
meat, right. But that's which is
what I had been doing. But now I
want to raise it and do a better
job and have better product and
have an outcome that helped the
environment help people help the
animal, the whole 360 degree
spirit, if you will. So that's
kind of how it happened.
Kosta Yepifantsev: If everything
goes according to plan, where do
you see this in 30 years? Are
you guys all working on the
farm? Are you in every single
restaurant across Tennessee,
maybe even the southeast?
Craig Pyle: No. I mean, that'd
be quite the Cinderella story.
My my ambition, if you will, or
intent is to move to a couple
restaurants would be great. But
to support 100 families 150
families with the proteins and
stuff that I raise, and to help
those families find other
sources for the things I don't
do. I want to be that resource
for people to where do I get
this? Well, this is the best
farmer I know that raises great
turkeys I go to this guy. Where
do I go for bees? Well, I've got
a few bees, but the guy that's
gonna help you with bees is over
here. You know, that's what I
want to be to people because
it's not just about selling
product, it's about us living
better. And I want to be a part
of that whole piece, if
Kosta Yepifantsev: you will. So
you'll get to 100 to 150
families quick, I have no doubt
about that. More importantly,
what you're describing being the
conduit, you're creating a
network of consumers
communicating with people that
are producing the food farmers.
I think that that's so
important. And I think that,
aside from obviously having
great success in your business
and supporting those families,
that could be your largest
contribution. Because no one's
been able to do that. And I'm
all about Cinderella stories. So
if if it comes to crag being the
one that finally breaks through
and creates that homogeny
between consumers and farmers.
We'll all be better off as a
country and as a society. We
always like to end the show on a
high note. Who is someone that
makes you better when you're
together? Well,
Craig Pyle: That's not hard to
answer. But I can't say someone
I've got to say multiple folks,
my wife and my girls, they're my
world that's why I do what I do.
You try to be the best person
you can. The husband and my wife
and that are to my girls and to
me that's what I'm here for and
everything else is kind of
extra.
Kosta Yepifantsev: Thank you to
our partners at Loxx Salon and
Spa for presenting this episode.
Loxx is an Aveda Concept Salon
providing the highest quality in
hair, skin and nail services,
from extensions, coloring,
facials, and microblading, Loxx
is your beauty destination. To
find out more visit their
website at loxxsalon.net
Morgan Franklin: Thank you for
joining us on this episode of
Better Together with Kosta
Yepifantsev. If you've enjoyed
listening and you want to hear
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