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Welcome to Humans of Agriculture. This podcast series is dedicated to discovering more about our food system, from the people involved in it.
Along the journey we'll be meeting people from all walks of life from Australia and from afar. Join us as we find out how our communities and our culture shape what we eat, and ultimately who we are.
More people, More often, Identifying with Agriculture
Welcome back
Speaker 2:to the Humans of Agriculture podcast. We're continuing on. We found a New Zealand winner of the Zanna Macdonald Award, Nancy Croshaw. Welcome. It's good to have you here.
Speaker 3:Thanks. Good to be here, Ollie.
Speaker 2:Now, Nancy, I guess I really only got to know you a little bit at the Impact Summit, so I'm looking forward to finding out a little bit more about your background, who you are. You're the extension officer for Angus Australia. I think you probably travel a lot given that when I text you, I was in New Zealand a couple of days after the conference, and you're already back in Australia, and then you're like, no. No. If you wanna get in touch with me, you might have to follow me on my New Zealand number.
Speaker 2:But you did something. And so in Australia, we do acknowledgments of country, which I'm sure you because you've spent a lot of time working here, know all about. I'm joining the podcast from Wadawurrung Country where we have our office, but you did what I presume I'm gonna try and get the pronunciation right, Apepiha, which was actually incredible, and I loved how you
Speaker 3:That's pretty close.
Speaker 2:Oh, we'll take that one then. I love that how you connected the country, the land, the places, I guess, you're from. So would you be up for doing it to kick things off?
Speaker 3:Sure can. Alright. Call Mamo Kaitimanga, call Niu Hakateawa, call Kaanganitimarae, Ko Kaunangunu Te Kaunangunu and Ko Natzi Taku ingoa. So what I've said there is Maungakai is my mountain, Nuhaka is my river, Kahangunu is my marae, which is like a meeting place, Korusho Tu Whanau that means Crawshaw is my family, and my name is Nancy. So the way I listen to taught is in the Maori culture, when you introduce yourself, it's all about your connection to the land, to the natural resource, which is more important than yourself.
Speaker 3:So it's always your landmark, which is your mountain, your river, because that's such a big source of food. And it's all about how well you look after those natural resources is actually more important than you as an individual. Because what we also look at is kaitiakitanga, which is we're looking after the land for future generations. So we're not going to be here forever, but the land is. So as guardians of the land, how well we look after the land and our natural resources.
Speaker 3:That's more of a reflection of who we are as people rather than what our name is.
Speaker 2:I love it. You know, after I spent a bit of time in New Zealand a couple of years ago, when it came to what Humans of Ag stands for, I I took that whole multigenerational piece. Like, how does what we do impact our children's children? And so I'd love to know, like, how do you see that connection and maybe the takeaways from Maori culture, and how do you see it in the lens of kinda agriculture and and the work that you're trying to do?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Well, I'd say probably the easiest way to look at for me is sort of looking at our own property. So sort of we'd be 3rd generation of where we are, but then my family had other property in a different area before they located to where we are. And that's every, like, you're going around the property and what granddad did in his time, that still has impacts on us today, even though he's no longer with us. And you can see when mum did it every single different pet that she's been to that something happened and she sort of planted a tree.
Speaker 3:And it's always a native tree like a pohutukawa, which is what we call the New Zealand Christmas tree. And so you've seen those when you were kids starting out as a little seedling to now that's one massive tree. And it's just sort of those things, it's those little steps each generation's taking the care they're taking for that land and what they're doing. That affects each generation. It's going to continue going down generations, or whoever the next people are on the land.
Speaker 3:So I just think that's a really cool way to look at it as in we can think about what we're doing now and today on farm, and we do look at that as in, say, we're trying to work out what my live weight gain is or what the crop yield is. But what we're actually doing to that soil, to that natural environment, how's that gonna impact the generations to come once we're long gone?
Speaker 2:And you talk a little bit about your family. Can you tell me a little bit more about, like, what were those early influences in agriculture? And do you know did you know from a young age that it was the industry you wanted to be in? Yeah.
Speaker 3:I'd say it was sunken pretty quick when we were kids. So I remember one of the earliest ones was me and my brother was sorting up cows for the bull, and you've got little inner studs, you've usually got small mobs that are going to different bulls. It was one of those ones we were walking down the road behind a mob of cows and cars and just having a chat. And then for some reason, us still being in primary school to start to talk about succession. And we're just sort of bouncing around different ideas of how that could work.
Speaker 3:And we've also got my sister as well, who was there at the time. But it was something we knew we were very privileged to have the opportunities we do and to be able to have access to the land that we do through all our parents' hard work. And it's sort of something where you look at us, we're actually pretty lucky just to be here. And it's something that we've seen the amount of work that our parents and grandparents have done just to protect the land, just to be able to be financially viable, some years as well. So it's just understanding what's gone into it is something you really wanna protect because they've done all the work.
Speaker 3:You don't want their hard work and life's projects to go to waste.
Speaker 2:It's a funny one, isn't it, with succession? I feel like we could go down a whole rabbit hole talking about that. But I'd be interested, like, your interest and roles kinda outside the farm gate. You studied ag science, I believe. How did the work outside the farm gate come about, and why has it been important?
Speaker 2:And is it where you see yourself kinda being forever, like, this straddling piece between the farm side and, I guess, agribusiness roles?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So for us, mom made it very clear very early on as soon as she worked out us kids were a bit interested in ag is we had to get off farm and go do something else where there was work for someone else, or actually get out and see what's out there beyond the farm gate. So that was something we all knew we had to go and forge our own career, whether we wanted to come back to the farm or not. We had to go and do something to build up that career so so you had some outside exposure. So that was probably the key one where it was working on that.
Speaker 3:And for me, it was my big eye opener was actually when I was over at Colorado State University. So I had a semester over there as part of study abroad. And I'd sort of gone from about 8 hours of meat science lectures at Lincoln Uni to going over there, taking a cap stone paper on meat science, having no idea what that was. And for those that don't know, that's where you do 4 years worth of work in one summary paper. Well, of course, so that was a bit of an information overload, but it was actually fascinating for me because for us, we, from a seed stock business and just a normal sheep and beef enterprise, you spend so much time trying to breed cattle, breed sheep, and to produce a good product.
Speaker 3:Yet once that product left the farm gate, what do we actually know about that next stage in the supply chain? Because we are producing food for people to eat and we do so much work to try and create the best product. Yet our knowledge as producers sometimes isn't that great in terms of the advertising actually producing feeds of what the restaurants want. So I just found that a really good opener and that was just the way we are sort of when I was in Colorado, I picked up pretty quick that getting across and doing something in the meat side of things, especially being from a genetics background, would be pretty useful.
Speaker 2:And that's the the pathway you've pursued both in New Zealand and Australia?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I sort of straight after uni, I went over to Aussie doing the graduate program with Teeth at Narricourt Plant, and that was saying, you know, go there for 12 months, learn a bit, dip my toes, and then I'd be back home stirring up the old man and just somewhere a bit closer so you can actually be useful on the weekends when you had some free time. But then it sort of came to be where I got offered a QA manager role, which I sort of undernad over for a while. But then I eventually said yes to, which should easily be one of the best things I've done. Because although it's a difficult role where you're under a lot of pressure, the amount you learn from doing a role like that is incredible.
Speaker 3:And it's like the people and the friends you've made in that network and how much they've supported me. Like, it's a whole Aussie family I've got now from my time there with kettle highs to kettle lows to a lovely COVID outbreak.
Speaker 2:Why'd you an ar?
Speaker 3:An ar? Probably because I knew the QA manager role was a huge responsibility. Like, when I stepped into it, I'd only been 23 when I went into that role and like having that mass amount of responsibility, having to manage people and pretty much if that product's not fit for human consumption and you sell that product, in that role you're actually, you could have to go to court and be legally liable for that. So that was like it's a lot of pressure to be aware of all that sort of thing. And it was just one of those ones where if I was going to do the job, I'm someone that if I want to do something I want to do it 100%.
Speaker 3:I don't want to sort of be a foot in both camps. I'm either gonna have that buy in. So it just took a wee bit for me to sort of go through that process to realize this is something you want to have a crack at. And the big thing here was actually getting the right people around you. Like I was pretty lucky that our General Manager Sage, our Plant Manager at the time, Dean Wozer, and then our Asset Manager, Sam Logan, like they were literally my support network.
Speaker 3:So like, it's one of those ones where you walk in, never been a manager before. You're gonna make a lot of mistakes. But the biggest thing for me was if I could own those mistakes and do that with the team so they know I'm happy to make mistakes, and yes I'm not going to be perfect, so I know how to do things, that we could sort of try and put a buy in. And then having that sort of group around me that sort of you could go to for advice instead of support and mentored you through that was huge.
Speaker 2:Can you talk me through a little bit like, I'm I'm interested. So having the the managers kind of above you, but also that freedom and nearly autonomy to run it as your own, but then also fail. Like, how did they come in and around you, or did they did they let you I guess, I'm trying to think it like a in an analogy, like, try and paddle do a bit of dog paddle, keep that head above water without letting you kinda bob under, but just so you could feel and kinda problem solve yourself?
Speaker 3:Yeah. It was that was one of my favorite things about the role was where the problem solving and the people management. And it was one where early days, like, I wouldn't do any big call that had anything to a product without having sort of the general manager support. So it'd be sort of like you'd go through, righto, this is our problem. This is what I'm thinking.
Speaker 3:This is why I'm thinking it. And you'll just run it past someone to get that idea. So you actually knew we're on the same page because you could easily miss something. And all these guys with 20 plus years of experience in the meat industry, they've been around a lot longer. And it's actually not a weakness to run ask for help or to run things past them because they've been through a lot of things.
Speaker 3:So a lot of the time, just bouncing those ideas around worked really well. And then probably over time, it got to the stage where things would happen and you'd just be like, right. I've got it under control. This is what I'm doing. And they'd just be like, yep.
Speaker 3:That's great. So it was definitely one where everyone knows as a new manager, you're not going to be perfect. And you're gonna make some mistakes. And the biggest thing there is about if I made a mistake, it wasn't shit, what can I do to cover this up so I don't get in trouble? It was more like, righto, let's go explain it.
Speaker 3:This is what I've done. This is what I'm trying to do about it. What do you think? Because through that, you're owning the mistake, but you're also bouncing ideas around because your way of solving it might not be the best way. So if you can get someone else's ideas around and just run it past someone, that's actually better outcome for everyone involved.
Speaker 2:Yeah. For sure. No. Absolutely. In that role, you probably had one of your proudest career moments that I know you talked about a little bit, but talk us through what it was like stepping into 1, a role that you probably, like, or which you say was daunting, but then 2, quality assurance in a meat plant into a COVID pandemic where demand was through the roof.
Speaker 2:What was it like?
Speaker 3:It was constantly changing, like, sort of things would change every day. Like, as we all know, for that COVID pandemic, the information you were getting, what was advised to do was changing frequently. And that was certainly at the same level on a plant level. But our biggest thing was people still need feeding. So it was sort of like, what can you do to make sure we're still functioning, we're still viable, and people are getting product that they want?
Speaker 3:But the biggest thing for me in that whole process was sort of, was even a little bit before then is like, actually when you give the team the sort of ability to make mistakes and then flourish, That's where you actually get more gain. So, like, for me, in a QA manager role, you'll have KPIs and you'll make audit results and all that sort of side of it, as well as your reporting country requirements. And all of those are really important. Like you need to hit those to make sure you're producing a good product. And through that process, people are going to make mistakes.
Speaker 3:But it's about making sure whatever the product that gets released is at the best quality it can be. And for me it was, when you sort of train people up and give them the tools to succeed in their own roles, actually seeing them succeed and go to levels they didn't think was possible was a lot more rewarding than the audit results. Because getting your audit with no corrective action, just 100%, that's great. But actually seeing those other guys succeed for me was a lot more valuable and a lot more rewarding. And especially to the point now where that some of them have stepped into higher roles or senior leadership roles since I've left.
Speaker 3:Like, it's just cool being able to see those guys just grow and flourish.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's so good. So how hard was it then to move to leave Tees, leave narrow court, and move on to your next role?
Speaker 3:Definitely wasn't easy because the thing over there, I actually, like I was pretty lucky that you sort of created an Australian family. Like through COVID, through all of those sort of different things that happened and being away from home, you missed your family events. Like my brother, he had his first kid who was older than a year old before I even met her with the COVID pandemic. Like, Christmas, birthdays, Easter, all of that sort of stuff happened. And I was very lucky that I had a family that just completely took me under their wing.
Speaker 3:And it was Christmas, I was there. You always had something cool. Like, they just took you in like you were one of their own. And so that was, like, one of the hardest things about it because these guys have become your family. But then it was also with that QA team, like, you were so invested in those people and seeing them succeed.
Speaker 3:Saying goodbye definitely wasn't easy. And it was one of the toughest decisions I'd make because I ummed and armed over it for a while. But I always knew long term I wanted to be back in New Zealand. So it was one of those things where it took me a while to come to the decision. And I knew it was the right decision because for those guys to move forward, I felt like the QA team needed someone else to take charge to take them to the next level.
Speaker 3:Because for me, it was sort of like, you've been doing it for a few years now and you just there wasn't as many challenges coming in. So I was like, for these guys, I didn't wanna block someone else progressing. So by me stepping aside and going and doing something else, no it wasn't easy and it was a very difficult decision, but that's allowed other people to grow and progress. And all those people that I was really close with there, I still talk to today. So it was sort of a necessary change, but not an easy one.
Speaker 2:And it also has crowded other opportunities for you, like your extension officer role now and and other things. Let's talk about the the Zander summit. What were maybe some of the the takeaways or things that really made the highlight and the week for you aside from winning?
Speaker 3:I think for me, it was how powerful that network is. Like, going into the summit, I was extremely happy that I'd been a finalist. Because in my eyes, if you make that finalist level and you get to that network, I thought that was already winning. So and I don't like I don't wanna put pressure on being like you've got to win. Whereas, you get to that point and you have you've already got a really big win.
Speaker 3:And I think you go in there and it's up to you to make those connections. And really, once you're in that room, it's up to you what you make of it. So like, you can build those connections, build that network, and then actually reach out to these people and go and see them. So like, since the summit, I've already been talking to 3 or 4 people about just different things bouncing around ideas. And even trying to work out in my work trips when I could take some time off to go and see them on those travel plans I do.
Speaker 3:But I think that network you've got is just invaluable because when you get the right people around you to bounce ideas around, encourage you. And also for me, I think a big one's actually not just to say great, great idea, it's to challenge you. Because when you're challenged, that's when you actually really go to the next level. And I think that's where that network's so valuable because everyone's on the same playing field, whether you're a CEO or you're one of the finalists. And everyone's happy to have those open, transparent discussions where you're actually gonna get a lot about out of it.
Speaker 3:And it's up to you how much you build on those connections after the event to keep growing and to keep learning things. And all these guys are just so open and transparent and actually want you to come and visit them and talk about their business. So that part is just really powerful.
Speaker 2:For sure. Now let's talk on the the mentoring side. What is it that you're looking to focus on? What's something that, yeah, you're you're really kind of have in your corner that you're looking to learn and lean on those people for?
Speaker 3:Probably at the moment, what I'm sort of thinking is the people side of things. Like, we look in agriculture, and if we can get the best people into agriculture, look after them, and train them and develop them, I think that's better off for the industry as a whole. Because the way I sort of look at it is on farm we've got, say, shepherds, I've got the whole process or jellaroo, jacaroos in Australia. They've got the process. They know exactly what to to train a dog if something goes wrong, how to deal with it.
Speaker 3:Whereas you look at in terms of managing people, how do we actually deal with these problems? Like we get a lot of people promoted to different roles in farming businesses or even in service industries without any exposure to that people management side of things. And if we can actually develop the people side and ensure people are set up to succeed managing people and we look after them, I think that's actually going to benefit the agricultural industry as a whole and all the different sectors we have.
Speaker 2:Yeah. For sure. I was, also interesting this morning. I was looking at this. There's a group over here in Australia, and they asked year 11 and 12 students.
Speaker 2:So you could choose up multiple options, but what were the pathways people wanted to pursue kinda after school? Medical science and medicine was top. Sport was, like, 8% of respondents wanted to do that. But then when you look at ag, ag was kind of down the list at, like, 4% of people, but that's still quite a bit of when people can choose multiple options. What's interestingly, like, above us in that list was mining for people.
Speaker 2:This group that did the research, they had one mining company commit $3,000,000 to them over 3 years to run and create content to make students more aware of the different career pathways that were available to them in the mining industry. And it's like, in an ag lens, I think exactly as you're saying, there's, like, there's very little investment or networks for people to kind of, like, peer learn. And there's just such a huge opportunity for it in our sector, like, just in terms of people actually seeing what's possible and what are their careers in ag. But then once you're in it as well, making sure that you kind of feel supported outside of you just day to day as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Because I think that's definitely one of our downfalls as we're probably not getting enough people from that outside of ag background in agriculture. And part of that is, like, before I went into the meat work side of things, I had no idea about any of those career paths that existed in agriculture. Yet that's a huge industry. But just where I was growing up in agriculture, I just hadn't been exposed to it.
Speaker 3:So before I went to Colorado, I hadn't even considered it. And then now that you're more involved in industry, you see all those different career paths and service providers and everything. Well, you know, you went to school with people who studied different things, say microbiology or food science at uni, but they're still not looking as career path in ag. Whereas that's where it could really add value. Because you think of egg, you think a lot of those sort of urban people sort of look at us, like getting hands on the ground a bit dirty where we are.
Speaker 3:And whereas there's actually so many opportunities in career paths where you can actually have the good income, have a good work life balance, It's just we're probably not promoting it enough.
Speaker 2:Yeah. What are your, like, on that career side of things, what are your career aspirations for what you wanna do?
Speaker 3:That's a good question. I get asked that one a lot.
Speaker 2:I would say you should have a good answer.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Well, then we got that one nailed yet. That's still a work in progress. But long term, I do want to be have some involvement in the family business. But then also for me, and I'll talk to my brother about it a few bit, is we're both quite interested in staying involved in industry.
Speaker 3:So actually been able to be involved outside the farm gate to really help the agricultural industry out as a whole. How that exactly looks, I'm not a 100% sure at the moment. But I am definitely leaning towards how can we help the people side of things in agriculture. So if I can find somewhere where I can touch on that and still be involved in the family business, I think that's could be where I'm going. It's what I'm thinking at the moment.
Speaker 3:But as I'm sure you've experienced as well, where you think you're going to where you end up can change a little bit as well. So I like to keep an open mind.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Well, I'm excited to see what happens, Nancy. It's gonna be awesome. And more interestingly, I think in the short term, looking forward to following your mentoring trip, and I think the topic you're looking at, we might have to get get you back a couple of times to chat about it and see what you're learning and and taking away and where you think maybe some of the opportunities and even maybe some of the blind spots we've got as well as an industry. It'd be fascinating to see what you get away from it.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I'm looking forward to it. It's gonna be a great trip. I haven't worked out the ins and out yet, but I'm sure we're gonna learn a lot. It's gonna be eye opening.
Speaker 3:I can't wait.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Now, Nancy, thank you so much for coming on for a yarn, and congratulations, and good luck this year.
Speaker 3:Thanks. It's always been great to be here.
Speaker 1:Well, that's it for another episode from us here at Humans of Agriculture. We hope you're enjoying these podcasts and, well, if you're not, let us know. Hit us up at hello at humansofagriculture.com. Get in touch with any guest recommendations, topics, or things you'd like us to talk and get curious about. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend.
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