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The Queer Stories of 'Cuse podcast series was created by the LGBTQ Resource Center at Syracuse University (SU), in collaboration with The SENSES Project, to curate an oral history archive telling queer stories in an authentic light. This series features interviews of past and present SU students, staff, faculty and community members of the Greater Syracuse area who are passionate about queer issues and advocacy work.
Special thanks to:
The SENSES Project Program Coordinator, Nick Piato
Director of SU LGBTQ Resource Center, Jorge Castillo
Associate Director of SU Office of Supportive Services, Amy Horan Messersmith
Co-hosts: Bushra Naqi, Rio Flores & Sebastian Callahan
Sebastian Callahan 0:01
Hello, my name is Sebastian Callahan and I'm a junior at Syracuse University, and I'm a research assistant at the LGBTQ research resource center. And we're working to establish our first queer oral history archive. And a few of our goals for this project include amplifying marginalized voices that are often wrongfully spoken for or over. And I'm pleased to be here with you, Margaret. And I'd like to extend all my gratitude to you for taking the time out of your schedule to participate in this interview. And please know that you may revoke your consent at any point during or after this interview. If you're feeling uncomfortable, or would like to take a break, please let me know, your safety and well being is of our utmost priority. And we definitely want to make that clear. Thank you so much, again, for taking the time to share your story with us. We greatly appreciate it. And without further further ado, we'll dive into some questions. So should I address you as Professor Margaret or Margaret?
Margaret Himley 1:13
Margaret's fine,
Sebastian Callahan 1:14
okay. Okay, perfect. So what's your full name? And what are your pronouns if you'd like to share?
Margaret Himley 1:23
My full name is Margaret Himley. And my pronouns pronouns are she/her/hers.
Sebastian Callahan 1:29
Okay. And about when and where were you born?
Margaret Himley 1:35
I was born in Chicago, Illinois in 1946.
Sebastian Callahan 1:39
Oh, great. And about when? Do you remember coming to terms with your queerness or queer identity? And do you feel comfortable sharing the ways you identify?
Margaret Himley 1:54
ummm sure I became had clues growing up. Certainly by the time I hit high school and puberty, I started to think I'm very attracted to women. But I didn't actually come out till I was in my late 20s. Teaching I was teaching then at the time.
Sebastian Callahan 2:14
Okay. Great. And what was it like growing up as a member of the LGBT community with your family and friends?
Margaret Himley 2:28
Well, I didn't. I had friends. I didn't tell my family for a long time. I had been married. And I had a son. So I was, so I was busy. And I was I was in graduate school working on a PhD. And I started to join the LGBT community, mostly through the bars in Chicago. There was a lot of bars. A lot of fun nighs. And that was really the place where I started to feel like who I was.
Sebastian Callahan 3:03
Yeah, that sounds great. And what's your connection to Syracuse? And especially like, what about the LGBT community? Have you been involved in here in Syracuse?
Margaret Himley 3:18
No, I, I was I retired and retired for a couple of years. But I was faculty at Syracuse for 37 years in the writing program, and I am one of the co founders with Andrew London of the LGBT Studies. Program and minor.
Margaret Himley 3:36
That's fantastic. I'm happy to talk about Yeah. If you want to talk about that right now, that could be great.
Margaret Himley 3:44
Okay, well, well, in the in 2001, as you undoubtedly know, the Resource Center was formed as a result of student action, actually, they, they did a kind of a campus climate survey and convinced the administration that there was a real need to have support services for LGBTQ students. After that, in 2002, then a Senate committee was formed on LGBT concerns. I don't think that's the title of it now, but that was what it was called them, which was charged with educating, addressing campus climate and also educating people on LGBT issues. And then a group of faculty in response to student interest, decided to pursue an LGBT two studies, minor courses, students wanted courses and, and there were there was an emerging scholarship and LGBTQ studies that was happening then. So there were many, many disciplines from, from architecture to women's studies, who had within them scholars who are doing work on sexuality and gender. So it felt like Syracuse University needed one to address student interests and to to infuse and represent this LGBT To scholarship in this curriculum, so the goal was to have a minor for people who wanted to study it carefully. And then also to infuse LGBT Studies scholarship across the curriculum. So that was the goal. And we got a grant. And we had a three year plan to determine faculty interest, there weren't a lot of LGBTQ courses at the time. So we needed to just to know that we had faculty that we're going to teach courses regularly. We wanted to learn from experts in other fields. And we also wanted to assess student interest in design, what students really wanted to get out of these courses. So we started a whole, we did a whole bunch of stuff we had, we had conversations, we had student forums, we had a faculty reading group, we had experts come into campus and talk about LGBTQ studies programs and how they worked. We spent some time we held we held a conference with about 170 people who came, graduate students wrote a book called interrupting heteronormativity, which is available online, I think, still, yeah. What because though, because graduate students are in the classroom, also confronting issues around students that students are confronting and how to help them so. So that happened. And after a couple of years, we had, we were able to put through the curriculum, we had the two core courses the two courses. And then we also had at that point, at the beginning, we had 17 courses, mostly new across 11 departments. So it was pretty exciting. It was really exciting curriculum, because it was so multidisciplinary so because students, you know, sexuality in space by an architect professor of political science professor on what was then a hot topic called gay marriage, which, you know, hadn't happened yet by any means. So there was there was, there was also a certain amount of political work, we worked with HR on getting benefits for same sex couples, which took a couple of years, which now seems strange, that we would have to fight that hard. But we did. And anyway, that was the then it then we got off the ground. We started I think we started offering courses in 2006. Fall of 2006.
Sebastian Callahan 7:28
Wow. That's fantastic.
Margaret Himley 7:31
Yeah, it was good, huh? Yeah. That's so exciting.
Margaret Himley 7:34
Thank you so much for starting that.
Margaret Himley 7:38
Oh, it was the most it was the most fun. We had Andrew and I were the Andrew London who is the you may know Andrew London.
Sebastian Callahan 7:45
I did reach out to him. Yeah.
Margaret Himley 7:48
Yeah, he's the Associate Dean Now in Nashville, too. We, we were the kind of point people for the for the effort. But there were a whole lot of faculty and students working together to make this happen.
Sebastian Callahan 8:02
Yeah, well, thank you so much for starting that, you know, honestly, definitely some interesting classes have come out of it. And I'm lucky to have taken a couple and definitely taken some great. I took a class with my professor Ethan Madrieta, and it was on like Latinx Futurisms. Yeah, cool. But yeah, it was it was really interesting. Honestly, almost all books were written by LGBTQ authors. And it was interesting to read some modern sci fi, which isn't normally what I read.
Margaret Himley 8:39
What is your major Sebastian
Sebastian Callahan 8:40
I'm a creative writing major. And honestly, my focus is on poetry pretty much I'd say I I'm a big poet. And I, I don't know I love to read. Yesterday, I picked up some good copies of books first day at the library back. So it's great to be back in Syracuse with all this, you know, all these resources.
Margaret Himley 9:06
That's a great major. That's new, relatively new. So I'm glad you're in it.
Sebastian Callahan 9:09
Yeah. Yeah. And I love it.
Margaret Himley 9:13
Yeah, I hope you take some more of the LGBT courses too.
Sebastian Callahan 9:18
I really hope so. Let me know if there's anything I can take. Because the there's lots of space in my major, so I can definitely squeeze in a few classes. So please live there.
Margaret Himley 9:30
Yeah, you should , you know, I'm retired. So I'm not up to date on what the courses are for the fall or the spring, but you can certainly get on the website and see what's being offered. So. Well. Thank
Sebastian Callahan 9:41
you so much. Okay, I guess we'll get on to our next question. And okay, especially during the turbulent times that the LGBT community has gone through. Let's start with what impacts do you remember making throughout your life besides the Besides the LGBT minor at Syracuse, what other things do you think you've been a part of, for the LGBT community in, you know, progressing against, you know, what's always been a marginalized community?
Margaret Himley 10:23
For sure, certainly during the time of HIV/AIDS, I had, I had many friends who are affected by it directly. And I participated. There was a local Act Up group here. I participated a little bit in that I taught after a friend of mine died in the English department Tommy Yingling of HIV?AIDS. I, I taught a course called the rhetoric of AIDS. Which was because there was so much art, poetry, photography, political work act, I presume you are familiar with the work of act up.
Sebastian Callahan 11:02
Um, I'm not familiar, I was about to ask you, if you could explain what ACT UP is for me.
Margaret Himley 11:11
Oh, oh, my goodness. Okay. So act up was a political response to the HIV?AIDS epidemic? Which was, you know about that, right?
Margaret Himley 11:24
Of course, of course. Yeah. I love Marlon Riggs.
Margaret Himley 11:29
Yeah, okay. Good. All right. So it was a group that started in New York City was a direct action group, it did protests, it did protest at the Cathedral, St. Patrick's Cathedral in New York City at the NIH. pretty wonderful, exciting, embodied protests. They also produce great art out of that, you should look at a book called dem age demographics. To get a sense of how they, how they developed it, there were also video groups that formed to videotape what was going on. And so there was a small people there anyway, so I was aware of all of this. This profusion is that like, for example, the question of how do you represent people with AIDS. And too many of the mainstream press were presenting them in their most weakened, you know, physically wasted, potentially covered in and cast legions sort of way, as if it had become the disease. And as you know, there was a great deal of homeless, homeless, you know, various, anti gay, anti homophobic, I mean, homosexual sort of attack on on people. So, how to raise the questions of representation? Who gets to tell the story? What does it mean to live with HIV AIDS, and not just die from it? Who gets it? What happens when, when it goes into the so called general population, which was part of the language that this was a gay disease, and it was threatening the so called general population as if gay men weren't part of the general population? Anyway, so out of that, I decided to have a rhetoric person. So I wanted to design a course. And so I offered it for the for the fall of some year, I can't remember exactly what year early in the epidemic, and I wasn't sure who would take it. Because it really was sort of a course about death. And a lot of ways, but it filled the sections, the section filled in immediately. And then we offered a second section, and that within eight hours, there were two sections of 35 students in each section. And the students were great. And we studied, we studied the rhetoric, we looked at magazines, look at films was that like Philadelphia Story things, how things were being represented, and then we also engaged in some actual activism ourselves. So that was a big, and then I tried it again. And it was a very powerful experience for all of us, I think, because it was sort of at the nexus of art in theory and, and life. What was really going on? So that was, that was something that I did. And that's partly what got me interested in this notion of the minor. It just seemed really important. It was really good. The Resource Center was doing around social issues and and social life issues, was very good with the Senate committee was doing addressing things like, you know, HR policy, but it felt like we really needed also to look at the scholarship and what people were doing, making visible the contributions and the realities of LGBTQ lives. So I would say that most of my work while I was teaching was was academic work. I now I'm part of an organization called SAGE upstate which is an organization for LGBTQ elders. Yeah. I'm on the board. So, so and we are all we have an advocacy committee that is trying to address some of the terrible I mean, the terrible laws that are being proposed and state legislatures and school boards in the end, removal of books from libraries and don't say gay kind of movement in Florida, which I'm sure you're altogether too aware of. So we're trying to as LGBTQ elders trying to respond to that. We're working. We've partnered with something called Project Open Books, which gets books into the hands for free, it gets books into the hands of queer youth. Which things really important to do, especially as books are being taken out of the library.
Margaret Himley 15:51
That's fantastic. Because queer youth are honestly very avid readers. And you see that a lot.
Margaret Himley 15:58
Yeah, well on books, you know, I think I'm glad I've had because books made all the difference to me, too. So when I was, in my early days of coming out, I read, I read a book by Rita Mae Brown called would be ruby fruit jungle, which was from the 70s. And it was the first book I read that was about lesbian desire. And it was fun. It was like a sexual rump. Like, it wasn't like, full of agony. I mean, there was, you know, she never had doubts she never had. The Molly Molt has been a heroine didn't have doubts about her desire, she just was mad at the world for not making space for her. Which was a really great thing to read. It counters the shame that one, you know, the culture wants you to feel ashamed. And this was all about joy.Yay, desire, right?
Sebastian Callahan 16:48
Wow, that's great. Sounds like a lovely, after remember that? I'll make sure to remember it. Give it a read.
Margaret Himley 16:57
Ruby Fruit jungle I, I, I taught I had it. I assigned it in a in some of my I've taught many of the sex courses. And I often assigned that book and it was still it's still fun. I mean, it's yeah, it's from the 70s that it was it's fun.
Sebastian Callahan 17:13
No, yeah, I'm, I'm into medieval literature. So whatever. Into You know, I don't I never mind too much. Yeah, good. But yeah. Yeah, I love I also love reading all sorts, because, you know, you can just look at how similar and how differently humans are over the 1000s of years we've been able to write, and there's just some crazy lines to be drawn.
Margaret Himley 17:42
Okay, yeah, that's right. There are also even on it to not go back to the Middle Ages. But to even go back to the 70s, which sometimes feels like the Middle Ages. If you the I for a while worked on a project to sort of, you know, look at the history of LGBT presence on campus. And, you know, there was there were a gay and lesbian Student Association organization. They were doing things had kissins and stuffon the steps of Hendricks Chapel. So even that little bit of history, going back even to the 70s is kind of exciting. And I love making sort of touching across time that way, sort of, not my world. Exactly. Not exactly the language I would use, but you know, connecting in some ways.
Sebastian Callahan 18:28
Wow. That's, that's great. Yeah. I mean, the 70s are such an interesting time, especially for studying LGBTQ culture. And it's, it's definitely, I don't know, it must have been crazy time to be around for and I'm very jealous that you were around for I know, I know, there's I know that. That means like, there was a lot going on, that wasn't so great. But well.
Margaret Himley 18:51
But that seven days, you know what, you know, Stonewall was this eruption of energy, and it was exciting. And then HIV/AIDS came along and, you know, really slam that down and are, you know, really, all that all that liberation, all that all that liberation and what they call Gay Liberation that's connected to anti war work, connected to women's liberation. I mean, there was this whole sort of global sense of change happening. That was difficult. And then HIV/AIDS came along and really smacked all that down for a while. The radical, right. Even the lesbian separatism was interesting. I mean, it was just just everybody was engaged in that conversation,
Sebastian Callahan 19:42
That's so interesting. And yeah, going back to the rhetoric, I remember looking through articles because my years to study were 2001 2006 and that's how I found your name. I went through lots of newspapers and all the articles was and we have these big binders at the Center for, you know, just like flyers and everything that was happening. Yeah. So I'm able to see what 2001 to 2006 were like, you know, chronologically just based on a few pictures, and it's interesting to see that the problems back then are definitely, you know, they were they were growing much more seriously. New York had just legalized gay marriage in like 200q. I believe it was, it was crazy. That's the first article I opened up to. And AIDS was referenced a lot. It was it was really interesting. So if we can move on to the next question, I guess it's still going along. But I just want to hear more about what your LGBTQ experience has been like at Syracuse University or within the city of Syracuse.
Margaret Himley 20:53
Okay. Well, when I first came here, there was a really great lesbian bar called the laurel tree, which if you talk to LGBTQ elders, especially women, you're going to hear about because it was fabulous. In the areas of called Holly Green now. So that was that was the center of certainly lesbian life, or what we, you know, I guess we call ourselves listings, I would call myself a dyke, but.
Margaret Himley 21:23
why was this bar are so special, sorry, sorry, to interrupt.
Margaret Himley 21:28
Great. So it was a whole house, I think, I don't think the building is still there. And there were three different floors. And they're somewhat divided by age, I think people picked and chose which floor they're gonna be on a little bit by age, and music and dancing. And I think I'm sure this isn't literally literally a case that feels to me, like everybody was there, like, everybody came out and went with your friends. It was really fun. It was it was, you know, it was sort of like, you know, it's hard to be, it's hard to be queer and straight world still, I think, in ways and it was hard then. And so it's, some people were closeted, they had jobs. They had jobs, like teaching in the public schools and stuff where they couldn't come out. So you needed a place where you could explode a little bit. And just be really clear. It was similar to the early days, I don't, you know, province don't know P town.
Sebastian Callahan 22:29
I'm not sure if I know province town, I'm sorry.
Margaret Himley 22:34
It's on Cape Cod. And it is, it's a it's a queer resort town, right on the tip of Cape Cod province. And I used to I go there, I still go there. I got we, my wife and I go there almost every year, for a little, little vacation. But the first few years I went there, which was a long time ago, it was that same feeling that the laurel tree provided, which was like, oh, queer people everywhere, fantastic. It just flipped. It flipped the script, right? It was like, I'm not this, you know, one queer person among, you know, million straight people. But it's like, we're the queer people. And we're the were the dominant number. It was really, it's really exciting. I still find that, I still find that in my old age very appealing. Like, I like to have some time when I'm primarily with some queer people. partly why I'm with SAGE too. Nice.
Sebastian Callahan 23:29
Yeah, that's fantastic. We were definitely trying to reach out to SAGE and I want to let you know, I definitely got that second email, I'm sorry, I was just, you know, trying to set up the whole studio. And I have a chance to respond. But I will make sure that especially everyone, I mean, it's probably going to be a lot of me doing it too, because elders are kind of what I'm looking towards. And especially speaking to because I'm so interested in, you know, especially, you know, the 70s and hearing about AIDS and hearing about how it was dealt with and hearing about how you guys accomplished and overcame all of this. And you know, we live in a better world because of because of you guys. And It's the least I can say.
Margaret Himley 24:13
well after generous, say appreciate that. So I'm happy. I'm Chairman of the Board of sage Fisher. And I'm I'm the one that's sort of pushing sages involvement in this project. Because I because Jorge and I talked about this, but I'm Christian before him and, and Chuck Morris and maybe you know Chuck Morris. We've wanted to do this. We had a cross generational dinner right before the pandemic started in November of 2019. And we had saved people who are like in their 60s and 70s and some middle range people in their 40s and then some students from campus. And it was it was really fun. It's fun for everybody. Actually,
Sebastian Callahan 24:56
I heard I think we were We were planning to do one last year.
Margaret Himley 25:00
I think. Yeah. And you know, this, you know, it's this pandemic really put the kibosh on stuff. I think there's real interest in doing something again, when it's feel safe, you know, especially because all people are more vulnerable to them to COVID. We had our first picnic outdoors, suddenly people came. And they were really glad to see each other.
Sebastian Callahan 25:25
Yeah, it's so great to finally be actually seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. Finally, after two
Margaret Himley 25:34
it was it's been a long haul hasn't been.
Sebastian Callahan 25:37
I know, especially for me, that's a 10th of my life. So it's been,
Margaret Himley 25:42
I can't imagine that. Well, I can't wait. It's so yeah, that's right. That's really a lot.
Sebastian Callahan 25:48
Yeah, it seems like too much. But I mean, it came at a bad time for me too, because it was college graduate graduating high school going into college. But you know, we'll see. I mean, there's some good and there's some bad to it, but you know, life goes on, I guess.
Margaret Himley 26:07
Did you did you? So were you on campus for two years, or? Yeah,
Sebastian Callahan 26:11
I was on campus. I moved on campus. I moved over from London. And I went to Yeah, I just lived on campus because I was supposed to go to University of Amsterdam, but they didn't open until like, December of last year. So yeah, I was like ready for school. I want to graduate young and go to grad school, young and, you know, keep keep working, keep going to school, get all my education done as fast as I can. But I love school.
Sebastian Callahan 26:42
I love school. So I miss. I miss it, actually. I mean, the students miss conversations like this.
Margaret Himley 26:51
Yeah, well come back. How many?
Sebastian Callahan 26:56
Did you What were you going to go to the University of Amsterdam for LGBTQ stuff?
Sebastian Callahan 27:01
No, I was probably just going into for media because I have a really great media program. And I don't know, I actually I wasn't that dedicated to the media program. I actually wasn't as sure of what I wanted to do yet. And I came into Syracuse undecided. But after taking a few English classes, and like especially taking a couple with Professor moody, who I'm not sure if you know,
Margaret Himley 27:28
yeah, she's my neighbor. Oh, my gosh. I love professors. We all know everybody.
Sebastian Callahana 27:35
Yeah, yeah. She's the best. Yeah, she's she's one of my favorite teachers. And she's really taught me so much. And like I love she's really into medieval stuff, too. So that's why I enjoy it. And
Margaret Himley 27:48
yeah, great. I'm so glad to hear that.
Sebastian Callahan 27:51
Yeah, we get along really well. And yeah, she's definitely one of the reasons why. I don't know, after, especially after taking, like more workshop classes, then you realize, like, Oh, I really enjoy writing and maybe writing is what I've been good at. Because I've always been good at humanities, but never really realized why but I think it's just because I've always been a good writer. But
Margaret Himley 28:14
like, already, like language. Yeah,
Margaret Himley 28:16
for sure. I mean, I really, I push myself to keep to keep on, you know, reading every day, I give myself an amount to read and make sure I read things that are interesting and stuff that's, you know, I don't know, you read and you want to read more, because you see all these references and allusions and literature, you're just immediately immediately drawn to think like, oh, my gosh, I have to read Ovid, and Virgil. Now.
Margaret Himley 28:48
I don't think I've ever heard anybody say that it was I completely love that. That's great.
Margaret Himley 28:53
Okay, we can get on to, I mean, we actually covered this one. But if you want to go into that, again a little bit more and discuss about how HIV and AIDS and any other, you know, esoteric world happenings that dealt with LGBT or that affected the LGBTQ population have affected you, if you want to go into any more historical events.
Margaret Himley 29:20
So I think that in my actual personal life, the HIV AIDS was like completely transformative in the sense that it changed my politics that made me more radical. It, it taught me what it means to fight as a collective response to injustice. I think that that was that for me personally was the probably probably nothing has affected me as much as that. I mean, I think it's great that we can get married and I am married. But even even same sex marriage didn't have quite the same impact. I mean, I think it's great. I'm all in favor of it if people want to do it, not everybody wants to I understand that. Yeah, that's,
Sebastian Callahan 30:06
that's interesting that you say that, but I totally see where you're coming from. Because, you know, it's, you know, life and death with AIDS,
Margaret Himley 30:14
And with life and death with AIDS and, and the lack of a government response, the representation of the the way that the, the representations of particularly gay men, but all of us because, you know, we all I mean, we're all in together, right? That those representations which drew on these long histories of things, like the syphilitic, for example, from the Middle Ages, so these figures that sort of get conjured back up into to the new figure of the of the gay guy with AIDS, and those early men suffered from a version of aids that was very involved very quick, often a very quick death. And one that involves a lot of wasting getting very thin. So these questions of, of how quickly I guess we could say that about the last 10 years in this country, or the last six, how quickly things can draw back on these, these old fears, these old angers and hostilities, they own, these old injustice, unjust sort of versions of the world can become the dominant again. So that any, so that that notion of progress that the 70s had given us, like, Oh, good, the back, the battle days are over, boom, here, we were in here, that here wasn't going it's not history doesn't work that way. It's not that simple. not linear. In the arc, the arc may move may bend towards justice. But it may have bend very slowly and it can snap right back. So that was very important. And difficult lesson, I think. Not just for me, I think for all of us.
Sebastian Callahan 31:57
Well, thank you for sharing that. And I guess let's talk about how you've dealt with any intersectional oppression against your race, your gender, or your sexual orientation.
Margaret Himley 32:18
Well, I like many people probably have had some experiences in my, in my career here at SU, where I had to add two things happened that were struck me as homophobic and affected my career. And I had to fight those with getting a lawyer and stuff. I don't really want to go into all those details. But I have certainly had the experience of having having been smacked down by things and and needing to fight for them individually, not just collectively, like the HIV/AIDS but individually having to fight for some rights. Wish were some difficult time.
Sebastian Callahan 33:04
Yeah. Well, thank you. And I'm sorry, you had to lawyer up. But yeah, it's too bad stuff like that happens. And I hope Syracuse has changed. And if it's anything to do with the school? Yeah.
Margaret Himley 33:20
And I think it's, I think it's better. I don't I don't think, I don't know. But I think it could still happen to people.
Sebastian Callahan 33:29
Um, feel free to be as honest as you'd like, here. Don't yeah, I hope you don't feel the need to, you know, remain behind any sort of filter, you're, you're able to say whatever you'd like to me, and I'm here to make sure that we this interview will be published, and people should hear what you have to say.
Margaret Himley 33:49
Well, I have so I have had that experience, which I'm not going to go into detail with. I've also had the experience of being completely supported. So it depends a little bit on who your department chair is and who the dean is and who the provost is and who the chancellor is, to the extent to which you feel supported. So but I also have my you know, I also felt very supported, I was Associate Provost international education for six years around study abroad. I was, you know, very, you know, it was fine. There may have been some backlash to that, but I never, I never experienced it directly. So it's, I think institutions are complicated that way. And it depends a lot on individuals and what they know and what they believe in and what they are ignorant about, actually. So I think this is a generally speaking at Northeastern, more liberal University. Generally speaking. People are accepting and more than accepting, actually but every now and then, not so much.
Sebastian Callahan 34:56
Exactly. That's That's definitely how I felt my experience be at Syracuse says, well, and you know, especially in dorm life, you'll see it more when you're around people you don't, you know, choose to be around. And that's how, you know. But yeah, I mean, if you'd like to. Yeah, I guess we're moving on to what wisdom would you like to bestow upon future generations of queer and non queer listeners of this oral history?
Margaret Himley 35:29
No, I don't think I have any magic wisdom. I do, I just think it's incredibly important that we talk to each other. Like, I'm really enjoying this conversation with you, Sebastian. Thank you. I think it's important that we talk that we share our histories and our perspectives and our experiences and our favorite books. And that and that we that it's so important to feel part of a community and to feel part of a collective at all costs. It's easy to get isolated, it's easy to get clicked up with friends think it's really, really important to have events and experiences with a lot with, with a larger sense of community, that you feel a part of history and a part of place and a part of something good.
Sebastian Callahan 36:20
Wow, that was lovely
Margaret Himley 36:24
I love teaching the Q Sex history course. Even though I know not everybody's interest history like me. But I think it's you know, and they're always like, fabulous digitized archives and stuff. I mean, you can just find yourself right in a primary text from 19-whenever. And I think it's really important to to feel connected that way too. And I think there are opportunities, not just interpersonal opportunities, but also, you know, digital opportunities now and stuff. Exciting.
Sebastian Callahan 36:56
Thank you so much. Yeah. And, okay, I guess we'll get on to more about just you and you know, and, and I wanted to ask, like, what are some things that are bringing you joy? Or bring you joy?
Margaret Himley 37:12
I have two grandchildren. Oh, that's great. Yeah, yeah. That they, yeah, they're eight and five now and they bring me pure, pure, pure joy. It's, I find it. I find these political times, and are very challenging. From joy. I feel scared sometimes. I don't like what's happening in the world. And it feels a little overwhelming. So I'm very happy to be working with SAGE that gives me joy. Again, it's collective collective activism really, really makes a difference? I think so. Yeah. Thank you so connected. Yeah, I guess the message is Stay connected.
Sebastian Callahan 38:02
I'm excited to work with sage more, especially after meeting you, I'll have to make sure to like let Jorge know that. We should definitely interview all those numbers you gave us.
Margaret Himley 38:14
And well, I think, I don't know all those people that are on the list. They were at the picnic. They just sort of signed up at the picnic. I thought it was perfect. So I saw that one of them are new to the some of these people are new to me. I mean, many of the people are new to me, because we haven't been meeting a lot. But I felt like one of them was connected with the with the newsletter that was that was in the tap that was in town in the early 70s and stuff. So there could be an open into a lot of material. I know that doesn't fit exactly into what you're doing. But it's kind of fun to to read these old newsletters.
Sebastian Callahan 38:47
I mean, anything helps, and I think it does fit into what we're doing. We're literally this is all about Syracuse, the city itself as well. And Syracuse, the school itself. And my role so far has been more focused on the school so far, because I didn't really you know, have the opportunity to speak to someone from stage yet. But now that I have, I think I'll definitely, you know, be able to feel well at least now I know exactly. A lot more about it, and especially a lot more about Syracuse. And about how you know, it's just interesting. I'm going to speak with someone else soon. I think a Patty Hayes. I'm not sure if you know who she is. Professor. Yeah, at George Brown in Canada. So I'm speaking to her after this actually.
Margaret Himley 39:34
Oh my gosh. I think I remember Patty Hayes. That was a while back. Yeah, great. Good. Good, good, good.
Sebastian Callahan 39:45
And, okay. And finally, are there any words you would like to share with anyone or add or add anything else about your experience as a queer person in Syracuse.
Margaret Himley 39:58
I'm really, really glad you're doing this project, I've been interested in it for a long time. And I'm glad to see Jorge bringing it to fruition. I'm glad to see this. I think there are three of you doing the interviews. I'm glad about that. It will be interesting. I think things change a lot. And I think having going, you know, having conversation, cross generational conversations is really good. I will learn a lot from reading these. And listening to these audio interviews too, especially with the students. So I'm really glad that we're creating this, this document or this record, or this, this archive of, for everyone's sake. So thank you. I'm very grateful that you're doing it.
Sebastian Callahan 40:40
Thank you so much for taking the time to come and speak with me. And it's been so fantastic. And yes, I'm very excited to send this interview off to you. I'm sure you'll be pleased. Because from what I'm hearing through my headphones right now, it seems great. And you're lovely to speak to. And it's been fantastic. So Well, thank you. So how are you? Yeah, I hope you have a great day. I'm sorry if I took time out of your day to for this, but um, thank you.
Margaret Himley 41:10
So I'm happy. I'm happy that we have this time Sebastian and anything or I can do, I'm happy to do okay.
Sebastian Callahan 41:15
I'll make sure to like keep you in the loop. Okay.
Margaret Himley 41:20
Thank you. Thank you. I like to be looped.
Sebastian Callahan 41:23
All right. Well, have a great day. Okay.
Margaret Himley 41:26
Thank you, Sebastian. You too.
Margaret Himley 41:27
Thanks so much, Margaret. Have a great Day. Bye bye bye.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai