This podcast is where your inner work begins. Each season, we skip the small talk and get straight into: nuanced conversations about self-care and inner work where you’ll feel understood instead of overlooked, practices you can try as soon as the episode ends, and reflective prompts that connect you and your experience to the conversation.
Taylor Morrison
You're listening to Inner Warmup. I'm your host Taylor Elyse Morrison, founder and author of Inner Workout, ICF certified coach and fellow journeyer. In 2017, I set out to build a life that didn't burn me out. And I found my life's work in the process. On Inner Warmup, we talk about how self care and inner work show up in your relationships, your career, your schedule, and in the conversations you have with yourself. We get practical, we get nuanced, and we're not afraid to challenge wellness as usual. So take a deep breath and get curious. This is where your inner work begins.
Today on the show, we have my friend L'Oreal Thompson Payton. She is an award winning journalist. Most recently she was a health and wellness reporter at Fortune, and her work has been featured in several national outlets. Her debut book Stop Waiting For Perfect, just came out earlier this year. And I loved our conversation so much. We talked about the ways that perfectionism can sneak its way into our play, what a two year olds can teach us about presence. And there was just this reminder at the end that we are all on a journey. I felt so seen in this conversation. And my hope is that you will feel the same way too. So keep listening. L'Oreal, I am so excited to talk to you. I love having our little pre conversations. This is inside baseball for people listening to the episode, I always chitchat a little bit with people before we start recording. And then I get so excited about our conversation that I'm like, Oh, wait, we should probably start recording. And that's what just happened with me and L'Oreal. So thank you for being on the show.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton
Thank you so much for having me, as always legit one of my favorite people just in the world. So it's always a pleasure to chat with you. I love it.
Taylor Morrison
I'm honored. And also, I'm trying to think, you might be the first repeat guest on the show. So I think you get that honor.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton
Thank you.
Taylor Morrison
Well, we're here to mostly talk about what you do outside of work. But I also know for people who are listening to this episode, who haven't gotten to meet you in the past episode, which we will link in the show notes, they might be a little bit curious about like what you do for work before we talk about what you do outside of work. So can you tell us more about that?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton
Absolutely. So I'm a writer, I am a newly published author, my debut book, Stop Waiting For Perfect, came out this past August. And as of earlier this month, I am a full time freelance writer again, those who have been following my career journey for a while know there have been a lot of stops and starts and pivots and pivot again. And so I'm really excited to say that I am doing that full time. And I'm also a speaker, I do keynote presentations, I moderate panels, lead workshops, facilitate yoga, mindfulness sessions, that sort of thing. You name it.
Taylor Morrison
I'm just so happy to get to hear you introduce yourself in that way. Because the last time we had you on you were introducing yourself in a different way. So it's just cool to get to even in these two episode touchpoints get to follow along on your journey a little bit. I have the pleasure of talking to you about your book Stop Waiting For Perfect in Chicago. And it was just so cool. Actually, I didn't plan to talk about this. But it was kind of a full circle moment to be having your book, Chicago event, one of your Chicago events in that particular bookstore. Can you tell people about the full circle-ness of that?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton
Oh, yes. I love this story. And it's funny because my publicist I'm pretty sure it was like, Why are you so hell bent on it being at Women and Children's First, I was like, it has to be here. And it was very serendipitous that a friend of mine who actually had helped connect me to our IVF doctor, actually, you were the one I was talking to when we were at the wing. And I was telling you how IVF was going, we had just started the process. And I wasn't happy with our clinic and Hannah overheard us at the wing, rip, and she was like, Hey, you should come check out this clinic that I work for. And I did. And when we met Dr. Jelani, who I love, multiple cycles later had our daughter and it's just like we all live happily ever after. And then when I was planning the book tour and no as you know, as a new author, it's really hard to get bookstores and places to take a chance on us because we don't have you know the sales yet. I don't have a super large following. And so it can be a little bit harder than you know some other authors to get our names out there, to get our books out there. And she happened to know the owner, at woman and children's first, she was like Hey, do you want me to make an intro? And I'm like, Absolutely, yes. So I always credit Hannah with so much because it's like, you helped me have my baby and also, like, launched my book, baby. And so she's an incredible person and human being for that. And the reason why it was like it has to be here was because in 2016, I believe it was, I went to a book event at women and children's first and it was Lovey, I think she was still like, IGE at that time, like she wasn't married yet. This is way back when Samantha Irby, I think maybe it was her and I forget whose event it was. But they were in conversation with each other. And I felt equal parts inspired and motivated, because here are these two Chicago bloggers, turn authors. And that was amazing. And that's exactly what I wanted, for my own story and my career. And I was also just like, so overcome with jealousy, it was not a good look. It's not a good luck on anybody, especially me, and I'm a Scorpio. So I'm very prone to jealousy, I feel like, but I remember standing in line, and they signed the books, and it was a great event. And they are wonderful people, writers, like I just, I'd love their work. And I admire them greatly. But on that bus ride home, it was a lot of the imposter syndrome that I write about in the book, my inner critic was very loud, it's like, you're not good enough, you're not smart enough, you're not talented enough, you'll never write a book, you'll never go on tour, you know, like, all of these things that I was telling myself. And that was really the impetus for me going to therapy, because I got home, I changed into my Wonder Woman pajamas. Which is very ironic, because it didn't feel really wonderful in that moment, and I was crying. And I found myself going down one of those spirals, again, with that inner critic and not feeling like I was good enough or talented enough that I will never be an author at their level. And to be clear, like, I'm still not at their level yet.
Taylor Morrison
Gotta add that yet in there
L'Oreal Thompson Payton
Gotta add the yet, right, because I'm very big into manifesting speaking it into existence, doing the work, of course, but I'm very confident that you know, this is just the beginning. And so having them in children's first say, Yes, having the event, there was very full circle in that way. Because I know where I was, at that point back in 2016. And feeling very down on myself and being very not so nice to myself with that, you know, inner talk that we all have to now being there with my family. You know, Jeff was there I've had violet in the audience for a little bit before it was time for her dinner, and she left. And that my friends, it was just like, wow, okay, these things that I had worked really hard toward, have come true, have manifested, and they're here now. And it all still feels a bit surreal. Honestly, like, there's been a lot of pinch me moments along the way. And that was certainly one of them. And thank you for being you know, my conversation partner in that space as well, that was really meaningful to me.
Taylor Morrison
I was so honored. And I was just like, I just want everyone to celebrate L'Oreal and her brilliance in this moment. In reading your book, it was I mean, we've called each other Enneagram twins for quite a while, we're both Enneagram threes, you're a wing two, I'm a wing four, but we relate to each other in a lot of ways. And I felt like as I was reading the book, there were even more commonalities of like, having parts of our life where we grew up in predominantly white environments and having these like really high standards for ourselves, which I'm really interested to talk to you about in this context, because the whole theme of this season is playdate, and we're talking about our relationships, to hobbies and to leisure and to play. And I'm wondering, how has perfectionism kind of impacted your ability or your relationship to those things like hobby and leisure and all of the things that you do outside of work?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton
Tremendously, a tremendous impact, I still remember it was either toward the end of 2018 or 2019. And my friend asked me, So what is it you do for fun? And I was really taken aback by her question because it was, we're in an accountability group with our friend Chastity, and we were meeting to discuss our goals for the upcoming year and being the Enneagram three that I am, the achiever that I am, I could rattle off this whole long list of my goals and what I wanted to do, what I wanted to achieve. And when she's asked me that question it stopped me dead in my tracks, and I was just like, I don't know. And if I'm being honest, I'm still trying to come up with an answer all these years later, I did end up getting a peloton in the very early beginning of 2020, right before the pandemic hit. And I told myself like this is going to be a hobby. This is for fun, but as I write in the book, it also became an obsession where I was, like dead set every day obsessed with getting this blue dot and for the uninitiated, a blue dot in peloton speak, is the little, literally it's a blue dot you get for completing a workout, so either on the bike or yoga, meditation, strength class, barre, you name it, you do a workout, you earn your blue dot, it's like gold stars for adults. And if I'm being honest, too, that was part of what attracted me to the bike as well and the app, because I was that kid who thrived on gold stars. I skipped a grade, I was valedictorian of my eighth grade class, I graduated magna cum laude from college, like, my whole life has been about achievement. And when I lost that blue dot streak, like 600, some days later, and like to really drive home the point of the obsession, like it was the day of our scheduled C section. And we were driving to the airport, like three o'clock in the morning, and I was listening to one of the guided meditations so I wouldn't lose my streak. And I did. And I'm not proud of that. I look back and I'm just like, what were you thinking? I was in the hospital, even like, had just given birth been like, cut open. And was once I got the clear to, you know, walk the halls and everything was listening to the meditations, I was just like, by any means necessary, gotta keep this streak. And then it was like a nondescript Tuesday afternoon in November, about a month after she was born, taking her to her doctor's appointment and everything. And at 12:01, I realized I hadn't logged in for the day, and I cried like real tears for not earning my blue dot for the day. And that's when I realized girl, you have an issue here. And that after therapy and talking through and working around, like why was this is so important to me, like, how did you take something that was supposed to be good for you like working out and make it into this drug, essentially. And after doing some inner work on that I realized, you know, I'm still worthy. I'm still the same L'Oreal with or without my blue dot streak and that that's not the end of the world. But it's very, especially being Enneagram. Three, like there's a slippery slope between like, I'm doing this for fun. And now I want to do it really well. And like another example is during the pandemic, I remember in 2020, I kept getting sponsored ads for yoga teacher training, and I was like, Sure why not everyone else is baking bread. I'm not a baker, I'll do, I'll do YTT. And because it's like, it's not enough for me to do something for fun, or simply be good at it, I have to be the best or it doesn't count. And that's where the perfectionism really comes into play with, like, hobbies and leisure. It's telling me that why of like, it doesn't count if you're not the best if you're not doing it perfectly, if you're not at the top of the leaderboard on peloton and like, it's so messed up.
Taylor Morrison
Yeah, and I can actually, I mean, as always, I can relate to a lot of what you said, and something that I've had to tease out in my own life is, I grew up with parents who told me that it didn't matter what grade I got, as long as I did my best. But what happened is that my best was often among the best. And so it got twisted, in my mind that's like, well, as long as you're the best, then you're good. And that's not what my parents said. But that's what I internalized. And so something that I still am kind of finding my way around as an adult is like, doing things that I'm bad at for fun. Like in my work life, I've really leaned into how can I find the things that, the gifts and talents that I have that I'm good at, that I'm excited to do, and make money doing that. And I feel so fortunate that I'm able to do that in my work life. But in my play life, I'm learning how to be okay with being bad at things and like, this is not the space where I have to be the best at everything. And it's hard.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton
Yeah, it's really and that's the same upbringing to where my parents like, try your best do your best. And like you said it twist that with like, Okay, well, you have to be the best and is Yeah, kind of just like very damaging, you know, to a young child, especially because when you grow up and you internalize that and and I'll be honest, like I'm still trying to find a hobby. I tried puzzling, and I got frustrated because it wasn't coming to me quickly enough. I will color sometimes with my daughter and like that's for fun. I will say that parenting has helped bring out that play in me. Because for so long it's been like work, work, work, work, work, and even things like the yoga teacher training that are supposed to be relaxing and a hobby or leisurely I have found a way to monetize. And so I'm really just out here trying to find a hobby, if anyone has any recommendations, let me know but it's been a work in progress.
Taylor Morrison
You mentioned something interesting. So you've mentioned Violet, your cutie pie daughter that I finally got to meet at the women and children first event and she was just so cute and also so curious. I was like, Oh, you're, I can already tell, she's going places, she's asking the big questions, I'm sure. But you started to mention pieces of your journey, where like the peloton blue dot in the hospital trying to listen to this meditation. And then you just mentioned now that Violet is out of your body and into the world and has been for what a couple of years now?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton
Oh, two years in October. Yeah.
Taylor Morrison
Is she also a Scorpio?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton
She was supposed to be that was the due date was November 3, November 4 was my grandma's birthday, too. But then because long story short, with fibroids and everything. They were like, Let's do a scheduled C section. And so it's 37 weeks. So technically, she's a Libra, but her heart. She was supposed to be a Scorpio like her mama and don't think I didn't try to ask the doctor too, I was like, how far out can we push this? And she was like, No, this is these are biddings. And I was like cool.
Taylor Morrison
Safety over astrology. That was a side note where I was like, Oh, wait, just curious. But I do want to know more about how motherhood has impacted your ability to engage with hobbies and leisure or what it's taught you. You mentioned, like already, you're kind of coloring with Violet, and that's helping you tap into play. Are there any other things that motherhood has taught you or shone a light on in terms of your play?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton
Yeah, it's very interesting, because we got, we found that we were pregnant February 2021. And I got the book deal in like Spring, Summer 2021. So everything was happening at the same time and writing the book and raising a tiny human at the same time was this masterclass in unlearning perfectionism, like the book itself, was trying to write this perfect first draft, those three words don't go together, like it's just impossible to do. And once I finally came to that realization, it was easier to let go, like I saw a tweet that talked about you can edit bad, but you can't edit nothing. So I was like, I just gotta get words on the paper. And it's my editors job to help me make them sound better. And she did. And it turned out great. And at the same time, I learned that parenting and perfection don't go together like kids do not care about your schedule, if you have to be somewhere on time. And I used to be so big into punctuality. I mean, I think it's a part of also like I write in the book, being a black woman, you know, you have to work twice as hard to get half as much. It's something that my parents ingrained in us without saying as much, but something that my dad did tell me and my sister growing up was like, to be on time is to be late to be late is unacceptable. And it was like, okay, so I always have to be early, I have to be perfect. And having a kid it was just like, Y'all, we got a good 15,20 minutes on either side, of when we're actually going to show up somewhere. And I had to learn to let go of that. And honestly, daycare has been a really good boundary for me for work. Because I am someone especially when I'm writing I can get like, lost in the zone, lost in a project lost in a story, lose track of time. But I am not going to be late to daycare pickup, because I'm not paying those late fees. So it's a very good and natural cut off for me for the workday. And then because I work from home, and most of the days, especially when Jeff is in the office, I'm picking her up. And we have a few hours before he gets home and we start the dinner time bedtime routine. That's like dedicated Violet time we FaceTime my family, if it's nice out, we'll go for a walk or go to the playground. And it forces me to get from behind my desk and behind my laptop and engage with her. And especially now that she's a toddler, she is so curious. So into everything she loves reading and I pray that that never changes. I know I'm a little biased, because writer, but she loves, loves, loves loves books, loves going to the library, and I'm noticing also is mimicking me as well. So I'm being very mindful of that, like she would write in all of my notebooks. And finally, I just gave her her own notebook to write in and she'll she's writing her little stories too, I guess I don't know what's like, important to a two year old, but she's writing it. And I want to encourage that, I want to encourage the curiosity and the play. And what I don't want is for and again, sometimes if I have my laptop open, and I'm like sending off a quick email or something and she'll come over and like, try to type as well, but I don't want that to be how she looks at me like Oh, mommy's always on her laptop, and she's always working. So it's important for me to get down on the floor with her, little play area. And you know, hold her baby, she has a little baby named Baby and just have fun and give her my like full attention and it's been really helpful for me and holds me accountable to tap into that inner child and like, Yeah, we're gonna color and we're gonna read some books and stickers. We're really into stickers right now and I love a good sticker like, yeah I'm 35 but stickers are still really cool. It's given me permission in that way as well to embrace my own inner child, and just kind of like, let go of the perfection and what everything else and what other people, and I hold myself up to a really high standard. She's a kid, she doesn't care, she just cares that I'm on the floor playing with her. And that's what's most important at the end of the day.
Taylor Morrison
That's such a good reminder whether or not you have kids, of this reminder of like, tapping into our inner child, our inner toddler, like the part of us that like didn't care, doesn't care if it's the fanciest toy or the fanciest gadget but just cares that we're like, taking the time to do something that seems fun and interesting. And at that point, like, Violet doesn't really have a concept of what work is. And even if she did see you in front of your laptop, she doesn't understand that, like, mom is doing this thing to make money, etc. She just is noticing like, Mom is present with me right now. Sometimes she does those other things. And I'm just wondering, I'm just thinking for myself, like, how can I give myself and my inner child more of that gift of just like doing the thing with what I have right there. There's a woman named Beth Gaskell. She's Chicago based, she owns this company called Big City readers. And she talks about, like, how you can do all of these things to engage kids in reading. And sometimes you think it's like, I have to buy the best book, or I have to buy like this fancy gadget. And she's like, well, what if you like, use the pizza box that you have in your hand to practice letters? Or what if you're out and about, and you do these different things. And it's all about using the resources that you have. And I just am realizing for myself how often in my like adult brain, I will tell myself, well, I can't really start that hobby, because I don't have the right outfit for it. So I have a few minutes right now, but I don't have the right outfit. So I'm not going to dance or I'm not going to try and doodle because I don't have the perfect charcoal or the perfect paper for it. And like our inner toddlers like cool. There's something to write with. There's something to write on. We're doing it. So thank you, L'Oreal for being the channel of Violet who is teaching us this beautiful lesson. I am curious, because you mentioned when you were having this one on one time with Violet, you were like, This is Violet time. And then you talked about how you have your time for work. When Violet is at daycare. What does me time look like for you these days? And I acknowledge that I'm asking you this during probably one of the busiest seasons of your life.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton
But that means that it's even more important to take that time and that's something that I worked with on my therapist, she was like you need to schedule it in, put it on your calendar, because it's so easy to especially as a woman as a mom, like, put yourself on the bottom of your to do list. And so I'm getting to know my me time again, you know, like recently, leaving a full time job, becoming a full time freelance writer again. And when I was working through this decision, like do I go back to freelance like what do I do? And then my coach Jenny gritter, shout out to her was like, I want to make sure you spend the remainder of this year resting and recovering. Because I was burned out quite honestly, I saw on LinkedIn, this chart that and if I find it, I'll send it to you. So you can share it in the show notes. But it had a post about the 12 stages of burnout and I realized I was hovering at a strong 11.5. And honestly, in one of my therapy sessions from over the summer and she was telling, my therapist was saying you know I'm starting to notice some depressive symptoms. I was like, Okay, we've got to get out, something's got to change. This is no longer sustainable. And because my tendency is to go big, I don't go home, right like it's go hard. And that's that's it, there's no other option. But in this season, both literally and figuratively, Jenny's really encouraging me to slow down and I love that it's on this cusp of fall and going into winter where we naturally tend to hibernate anyway, and she's encouraging like literally my homework from my freelance coach is to return to my morning workout routine and to my morning routine in general, which looks a little bit different these days, like pre pandemic and pre baby you know, I had all the time in the world it seemed like, to you know, journal and meditate, do a devotional and squeeze in a workout in and that looks a little bit differently, especially the days when I take her to daycare, like it's not going to be the first thing I do in the morning - I have to get her ready for school and so but once I come back, now that I'm in charge of my own schedule, I have that luxury and that time and that space, to really take my time with my morning routine and return to myself in that way. So my homework is getting back into the swing of my morning routine and my morning workouts and going on coffee dates with friends, because that's something I really love doing. But I felt really anxious about it when I was working full time, like, I felt like I was on the clock, and you know, I have to get back on Slack. And I'm especially working remotely, there was that pressure, I put it on myself to, you know, be the perfect remote employee and always be present and doing all these things, it was just giving me so much, so much stress and anxiety. So I am looking forward to rediscovering that me time and implementing it, but really like putting it on the calendar and holding that time and making sure that it's sacred and that I'm putting myself at the top of my to do list rather than the bottom right, because I don't need to earn my rest and recovery, I think there's sometimes a tendency to be like, oh, after I finish this email, after I finish this story, after I finish this project, then I'll do the yoga class, or I'll take a nap. And I'll watch this documentary, whatever. And I'm trying to and that's my default thinking. So it's really practice for me to flip that it's like, I'm going to pour into myself first. So that I can pour out into everyone else throughout the course of the day. But if I'm pulling, you know, pouring rather from this empty cup, then it's not good. I'm not going to be a good L'Oreal like to myself, and the writing is not going to be good, not going to be good for my family and my friends. And so it's really, it's more than like, self care, and how we've come to describe it as a society. It's really like nourishing myself in self love in that way and community care in the sense that I am better to everyone else, when I'm really you know, good to myself, first and foremost.
Taylor Morrison
Yeah, and we lose that so often. And this is something that I knew that I personally would get a lot out of this conversation, just knowing how much we have in common. But it is just such a good reminder, it reminds me of that old kind of it's not even a quote, an old saying that there was this like master teacher, and someone was talking to him and like saying, How long should you meditate? And he said something like 30 minutes. And the guy was like, Well, I'm too busy for 30 minutes, so the master teacher was like, oh, then you need 60 minutes. And not that I talk a lot about how we don't need to put so much pressure on the amount of time that we do things. But I do think there's something in that prioritization, where it's like, when you feel like you don't have time to prioritize it. That is the moment when you need to prioritize yourself and your care most. Because that's telling you something, that feeling of you not having time and space for yourself, in your own lived experience is a sign that you need to slow down and create space, and really a sign that I need to as well. This is something I've been thinking about as we're recording this. I'm in the midst of like, one of the biggest, most like exciting and ambitious things we've ever done for Inner Workout. And I find myself being like, Well, I'm gonna jump straight into doing work in the morning, or I'm gonna blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, well, if we're working on something self care related, this is my invitation to practice what I preach, which is like, part of the reason why I still get drawn to the work of this company, because I need it. And I need that reminder every single day.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton
Yeah, and same with like, how, what do I look like encouraging everyone else to take these chances and these risks and step out on faith and believe in yourself. And don't let the inner critic get the best of you when that does happen to me like literally the night of the women and children first event I went home. And I against my better judgment was looking up like New York Times bestsellers list and all these other things, I saw writers that had gotten invited to prayer row Lit Fest, and I didn't even know I had applied. And I was feeling really discouraged about that, like that jealousy is still there. It's not like, Oh, I've made it and I've checked this thing off of my list. And so now life is great. It's an everyday practice. And so I've had to go back and reread my own chapter on jealousy and remind myself of those tools because again, I need to not just, you know, talk the talk, but walk the walk and being kind to myself in those moments to like, Yes, I'm grateful for everything. And there's still these fleeting moments of jealousy and that's okay. Like both of these things can be true. doesn't make me a terrible human. But yeah, same like with being drawn to the work and this is why I do what I do because it's a it's a journey. It's not like I've reached this milestone and now it's complete and everything is perfect. Like it's just saying, you know, getting started we're just getting into like, the weeds of it. I feel like and so it's been very interesting to live it as now I'm like, talking about it in interviews and other speaking engagements and things like that, where it's like It's still very much applicable to my life in present day.
Taylor Morrison
Yeah, what a gift to get to do work that gives us that reminder, but also for everyone listening, like what a gift to be an active participant in your own journey. And you don't have to write a book to start to notice these patterns. It can be you journaling, or you being in therapy, or you being in deep relationship with people who can start to see like, Oh, we're noticing this arc happen again. Here's how you dealt with it before. And I love like sometimes going back into my own journals and being like, Oh, I have the same thought here. But guess what, like that version of me would think about where I'm at now, or what wisdom did that version of me have to give to myself now. So there's so much that we can learn by engaging with our past self, whether that's our inner child or like us from six months ago who wrote something in a journal? I could chit chat with you all day. I'm just feeling so seen and so inspired and so excited for you and all that you are stepping into I would guess that listeners are feeling the same way and are like I need more L'Oreal in my life. So how can they get their L'Oreal fix?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton
Yeah, you can find my book Stop Waiting For Perfect anywhere that books are sold and it's also available in audiobook and I narrate it myself, which was exciting. And you can subscribe to my weekly motivational newsletter at LTinthecity.com and follow me on social media at LT in the city.
Taylor Morrison
Lovely, thanks for being on L'Oreal.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton
Thank you for having me as always, appreciate you.
Taylor Morrison
Inner Warmup is a collaborative effort. It's hosted by me, Taylor Elyse Morrison, produced by Jennie Kerns and edited by Carolina Duque. If you enjoyed this episode, share it with a friend. And if you're looking to continue your inner work, our free Take Care Assessment is a great place to start. On that note, take care