Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Thoughts and ideas on education, culture, psychology, social science and more from our academics, students, alumni and wider community to create lasting and evolving change. Podcasts brought to you by UCL Institute of Education (IOE), the world's leading centre for education and social science research, courses and teaching, and a faculty of University College London (UCL).
More from us: https://ucl.ac.uk/ioe
You're listening to IOE Insights.
The UCL Institute of Education podcast
from University College London
Today uh so I wanted to talk to you
about the importance of sleep
especially in children in their
developmental years and I think it makes
a huge difference in the way they
perform in their school life and in
their daily lives. So I wanted to ask
you since you're a teacher with so much
experience. Do you think sleep is
important for children and their
academics?
Very important. I recommend that
students should sleep for at least 8
hours and if you are a teenager you know
18 19 years 6 hours is good enough but
for a schoolgoing student 8 hours of
sleep is highly recommended. What
happens is you know your mind starts
working when you're sleeping. So
whatever you study throughout the day,
the data you've taken in okay that
starts getting assimilated and processed
while you're sleeping. So if you're
sleepd deprived then it's very difficult
to produce it back for the exam the next
day. Also you know on a normal routine
day it affects your reception and your
learning.
That's that's absolutely right sir. When
you look at a childh,
how can you tell that okay this child
came into the classroom today and hasn't
slept and he looks so tired? Because
more often children these days are doing
allnighters before exams. It's a very
common thing especially in children who
give exams correct competitive exams. Um
in India especially we just had our
board exams and they were on caffeine
all night. And so when you're looking at
a child, how can you tell that okay this
child is tired?
Uh what I've noticed in experience is
that uh students who are sleepd deprived
uh generally will have a little they'll
be low on energy. Uh puffy eyes. They
feel groggy throughout the day. They'll
be quite inattentive in class and uh you
know they're not able to focus. So even
when you're teaching and you're
questioning them, they're not able to
answer back very effectively. And also
you know during a classroom session we
have you know uh periods where we make
them learn things in the middle of the
class like math formulas or certain
important definitions and certain
pointers you want them to remember. So
students who are sleepdeprived normally
are not very active to respond back and
it's very easy for a student for a
teacher to identify that the student is
sleep deprived. What I have noticed is
people who tend to have procrastination
issues don't study throughout the term
don't have a slur process and they feel
at night before an exam they can stay up
all night and they study and they feel
all confident and they go into the exam
and that's it. They're fully blank and
they're not able to recall some of their
concepts. So someone who's had an
experience with memory as well. What do
you think about memory recall and sleep
when it comes to students?
Wow, that's a nice interesting question
and uh one should remember that Rome was
never built in a tape what you memorize.
Okay, if you if you have to recall the
next day, you may remember 80%. So as
the days go by, the retention goes on
reducing. It's as simple as this. You
watch a 2hour movie and you have to come
and narrate a story to a friend after
the movie. You may even take 25 30
minutes to narrate the whole movie. But
the same movie has to be narrated after
1 week or 15 days. You finish the
narration in just about 5 minutes 3
minutes. Why? Because you're not being
able to retain enough. Now if you have
to retain that movie for a longer period
of time, it means you have to go on
watching and viewing it again and again.
So the same thing goes with studying. So
if you are studying something if you to
revise it the next day or after 3 4 days
your retention increases. Now students
who believe that oh I can study one day
prior to exam and I can do it. It may
work for a lower standards but doesn't
work for higher standards you know and
the students you know normally you know
when you interview people who have
topped exams and you ask them they will
always try to be humble and they say oh
I just began studying one month prior
and I did it. Believe me that's not the
true story. they have been studying
regularly and religiously and that's how
the academic performance excels
for children who are giving their exams.
What would you recommend their routine
looks like?
Wow.
So I have personally noticed that most
children who are giving exams they think
focus and hard work means that they have
no other extracurricular activities. It
means that they are cutting down on
their sleeping time timets. So they may
think that okay I'm going to wake up at
4:00 a.m. and work so hard but what most
people don't realize is that their brain
is slowly getting tired. So what they're
actually spending so many hours learning
they're not actually retaining it
all because of a simple thing like so
wow now see um one I recommend 8 hours
of sleep which is important two
uh I mean either you're a late night
sitter or you are you know early morning
now this may work differently for
individuals
I personally recommended a person you
know hits off the bed by at least by
about 11:00 gets up in the morning at
about uh 6:00 7:00. So you have your 8
hours of sleep. Now if you think that
you can sit up till 2:00 and study and
you get up early in the morning and then
you catch up back for the afternoon
sleep, it doesn't work. Night sleep is
the best form of sleep to increase your
retention and learning power. Now if you
deprive yourself of night sleep, then
you're depriving yourself of deep and
strong learning. So night sleep is
important. Uh you cannot study a day
prior to any exam. You have to be
studying much in advance. Early morning
should be used for regular revision.
Revision does not mean studying all over
again. It means you know you have your
certain pointers and you're recalling
those pointers. Okay. Just to make sure
that you remember things very well. To
add on to what you're saying, sir, um
many children and many working adults as
well have this idea of catching up on
sleep.
I've been looking at a lot of research
studies and there is no such thing as
catching up on sleep.
Correct.
Of course, you can
sleep longer later and give your body
the rest that it needs.
But there is no such thing as I'm going
to exert myself during the day and catch
up on the weekend. Yes,
this is we may not see it now especially
in young children but as you grow older
these may translate into diseases such
as diabetes,
heart problems,
anxiety, depression so many more you
know
it's very interesting that you touched
upon mental health you use the word
anxiety and depression
so do you notice that schoolgoing
children giving exam who are not
sleeping and who are very severely
stressed do you notice depressive
symptoms do you notice exam anxiety. As
a teacher, what would you say uh
children do to deal with this and how
would you guide them?
Very good.
What I recommend is physical activity.
Students must spend at least an hour or
two on some kind of physical activity.
So that that's where games come into
play. Uh if they are not having enough
time to play a sport,
yeah,
cycling, running is recommended.
Sleep of course as you mentioned
earlier. Now students you know keeping
in mind their routine life, their
school, their extra tions and
extracurricular activities must plan in
such a manner that there is enough scope
for games.
When students play games those good
hormones are released which help you
studying far better learning far better
retention and then better reproducing in
the exam as well. So games are very
important. Um if they can have uh you
know to relax their mind some kind of
light music it works but music should
not be something which you know makes
you very energetic it should be
something what calms and s you down so I
recommend music simple music games food
plays a very important role uh if you're
over stuffed it's very difficult to
learn you're over stuffed it'll again
trigger asleep at a wrong time. So what
I recommend is that when you are hitting
the bed especially during examination
time you take a lightamine which is the
in your stomach.
Most children uh who come back tired
from school uh think that it's great to
take a quick nap or squeeze in a quick
nap before they continue studying. So
most children especially in India their
schedules end about 4:30 and they're
sort of having a nap around 4:30 to 5 in
the evening which in my opinion
completely disrupts the quality of sleep
they're having later in the night. I
think that a nap should not be more than
20 minutes. Correct. And it should be
somewhere between 12 to 1:30 or 2.
Correct. Because at 4:30 to 5:30 is a
peak productive period.
That's right.
So that should be capitalized for
learning.
That can also be used for bleeding.
Yeah,
but definitely not for sleeping.
Sleeping can be around 1:30 2:00 and as
Nandini says 20 minutes max is enough.
You don't need an hour or 2 hours of
sleep in the afternoon. That's just to
relax your body.
Yeah. And that's for children and for
adults and working professionals. It's
actually been recommended to if it's
possible to skip any sort of daytime
sleeping to have a better quality of
sleep at night.
Perfect. In India, we have this sort of
culture that it's good to sort of go
into a deep sleep after having lunch.
Afternoon siestas.
Yeah. And most people who sort of have
that habit, I've noticed are tossing and
turning at night.
Yes.
And then they go on their phone and then
they wake up tired and they can't wait
to go to sleep in the afternoon after
lunch.
A lot of students know uh if they don't
get their sleep at night, they're so
used to scrolling on reals and being on
social media. So that you know disrupts
your entire sleep cycle and these
students you know see when you when
you're seeing your screen time your your
screen your your res it it plays on into
your subconscious mind when you're going
up to sleep and uh it is not a good deep
sound sleep.
Social media is something that is very
relevant uh in our day and age.
Correct.
I believe that social media um can be
very useful.
Yes.
Like just what we're doing right now. uh
we're using that very platform to spread
awareness.
Uh but I also think that too much of
anything is not good and especially
timings is what I feel is very
important. Do you think it's beneficial
for education or do you think it's
acting as a barrier for their learning
and their timings in teenagers?
This is a very debatable question and
everybody may have a very different
viewpoint. Well, what I personally feel
is social media is important because
today we are in an era where we connect
with people through social platforms. So
that's very important. Uh as you
mentioned earlier, anything of an
overdose is harmful. So one, you have to
limit your social media usage during the
day. Two, avoid using social media when
you're about to hit the bed. Avoid using
social media when you have your peak
working prime time. you know when your
mind is more receptive. So if you follow
on these rules, you follow a certain
discipline in using social media, it can
work in your favor. Social media can
also be used as a learning tool.
Yeah.
As you mentioned, you know, seeing such
podcasts also a lot of uh a lot of uh
study data is available on social media
which is very beneficial to students. So
it can be used in your favor.
We definitely have a generation gap
between us. I want to know from a
teacher's point of view in your 35 years
of experience how it was 35 years ago
and now and how children perceive social
media and why do you think that it's now
that we're so hooked on to it to a point
where it's affecting their sleeping
schedules.
Uh see anything that that is new that
comes no
there's a lot of crave for that in the
market.
Yeah. uh and this crave would last for
for a period. That period could be a
decade or two or more. Um I don't feel
that there is a gap between the Gen Z's
and the Gen X. In fact, there is a
bridge. Okay. Now, this bridge has to be
used very effectively. Um what happened
was we were the ones who were slowly
this social media just came into picture
at our times and you all were born in
that era. uh what what was what should
have been done was you know in the
beginning itself if there was
disciplining of social media at that
time okay effective use today we would
have been able to use social media and
all these open other platforms in favor
of your generation that discipline was
lacking in the beginning now because it
was lacking no it has been you it has
been misused for a lot of resistance I
mean some of the people in our
generation through I mean Anything new
is always resisted. So I feel you know
we offer a lot of resistance to the use
of social media and not everybody got
very compatible and very comfortable
with it. But since your generation was
born into it, parents also found it very
easy to to discipline kids using iPads,
mobiles and those kind of things because
see colors uh everything in social media
know the way it presents know it's very
glamorous. It's very impressive and it's
it's very appealing. So it it lurs you
more and more to it and kids like
colors, they like vibrance and stuff
like that. So I feel if there was a
little discipline there okay it would
have been really better but well it
didn't. So now onwards if the next
generation of parents which are coming
up the next the gen alpha beta what will
come up? No I think parents are already
aware that there has to be some kind of
discipline. So if they inculcate strong
disciplined rules in terms of usage of
this and how it can work in your favor,
I think the next generation will not be
facing so much of a problem in terms of
uh misuse of social media is what I
feel.
That that's definitely true sir. And uh
just the other day I was visiting this
uh beautiful nonprofit organization
called Sur. I think they're doing
brilliant work and what one of the
psychologists over there said that
children don't have access to phones in
some they do have is a computer lab.
Okay.
So in the computer lab um children have
safe browsing
opportunities where someone's present
there and they're overlooking what
children are accessing. And what was
found is that later on when these
children pass out they've become adults
and they're going on to a phase in the
life where they're giving competitive
exams. Okay.
Um they sort of asked questions like,
"Oh, how are you able to afford
coaching?" And they say, "No, ma'am. Uh
you've taught us how to do this all
these years on YouTube." So if children
are actually encouraged to use social
media the right way,
correct?
It's so beneficial because they're
saving thousands on coaching costs.
Everything is accessible on YouTube. But
you need to use YouTube for the right
things.
Correct. Correct. So that's what I
and that can be brought only by parents
and teachers and responsible uh people
in your in country.
Yeah. I wanted to ask you one more thing
sir. Um a lot of children when you
mentioned anxiety, stress and depression
um apart from parents um who they spend
all day with
another set of people that they spend
almost 8 hours a day is with their
teachers from 8:30 in the morning to
3:30 in the evening they're with their
teachers and sometimes even later for
after school tuition.
Yes. So it's a huge responsibility in
terms of how they perceive life,
what they say is mentorship is perceived
by how they look at their teachers.
Correct.
How do you feel as a teacher, you are
emotionally available to students in a
way that's not just academic in order to
inspire them
in building good routines.
Okay.
And managing stress
and also highlighting the fact that it's
okay to feel stressed. It's okay to feel
anxious without necessarily disregarding
how they're feeling.
Wow. So, um I handle mathematics. Uh
that's my core subject and students
normally fear the subject a lot. Uh so
what I do is know one I make them like
me as a person first. So once they like
me I transfer their liking to the
subject mathematics. So they start
liking the subject mathematics. one two
they generally tell me they're very
worried scared and fearful about mads I
always feel that this fear is good fear
because only when you're fear fearful
you're little worried about something no
that keeps you going if you have an
attitude oh I'm not worried about it
then you won't put your efforts at all
in it okay two students as a growing
they go through a lot of emotional uh
issues and things like that because if
parents are working they may not be
available all the time. Two, uh parents
know are unable to be friends with their
kids, they are they are more uh the
nagging the lecturing type and that's
what uh children don't like. So uh when
when they come under a teacher and if
they find a teacher who is able to
accept them the way they are, who able
to listen to their problems, okay, then
that's where mentoring starts. uh so I
perceive experience that uh when when
they start liking me and they start
liking my subject they start opening up
they tell us about the fears and I and
I'm sure most teachers around the world
okay since they're teachers they do give
that extra support system in in talking
to the students and understanding their
problems and guiding them you know
motivating them it's just that I mean if
you didn't get a right guide or right
teacher you've been unfortunate okay I
don't think teachers are bad the
situation may not be right at that
moment but by and large all teachers do
mentor and uh I enjoy mentoring my my
kids I enjoy connecting with them I
enjoy listen to their stories I feel
very happy you know to know the way they
start doing well and as somebody who
found something very challenging and has
started being good in that oh my god it
It really motivates me to do much much
much much better for the others you
know. Uh students have always kept me
young. I mean it has they've never let
me grow older. Uh sometimes people ask
me you know
you're so young. You know it's a 34 35
years of experience. People say are you
that old? So I say uh you know well
people will say love effect and I'll say
it's a students effect. It's my students
who keep me always young and very
energetic. All true. That's so beautiful
that you think that way. So, because it
takes a lot of passion to contribute so
much to us this field and feel so deeply
about students wanting to grow and um I
wanted to touch upon one last thing.
Uh what does it mean to be a memory
coach? You said you were a memory coach.
Yes. The Indian education system is
mostly based on memorization. Correct.
uh it has a lot of emphasis on recalling
concepts correct and being able to write
a lot of heavy matters in a span of a
few hours. That's how our examination
works. Correct.
So memory is something that's extremely
important to Indian students. So what
does it mean to be a memory coach?
Yes. So I have been uh associated with
this organization called as growth
vidyapit. The founder member is Mr.
Ratesh Sa and other coaches are Mr. Bhan
Danesha, Urui Danesha, Kim ma'am and
those people. Uh now here this memory
technique is basically based on
association
right
uh we trained students how to remember
uh 20 words 40 words in a span of 90
minutes in the span of uh 180 minutes.
Okay. you you give us words and we'll be
able to recall back in just about 90
minutes and give you back either in the
same order reverse order or any order.
Uh with this technique we can also
memorize um you know 100 digits 50
digits okay in a span of about uh again
120 minutes or less or more depending
how strong coach you are. Now by by
learning these techniques okay you are
able to apply this in memorizing your
long answers, short answers, periodic
table, entire periodic table then even
your math formula then physics concepts
you know uh even memorizing big passages
you know some now definitions have to go
just the way they have they are in the
textbook. So it helps you to you know
improve on those areas and you're able
to reproduce them exactly the way it is
given in the book and uh since as you
mentioned all our exams in India are
memory based u that's where you know
this technique you know sharpens your
mind your skills and helps you to
perform optimally in an exam.
So it's a technique it's a science. So
once you learn this technique, you apply
it to your uh to your routine of
studies, it definitely 110%
brings improvement in your academic
output. Scholastic performance
that that definitely seems like a very
powerful tool.
110%. I strongly recommend that students
must take up memory coaching to enhance
a performance on exam. Yeah, I think
it's um powerful what you said about
memory, but um I don't think any of this
is possible without sleep and a good
night's sleep is definitely essential
for memory and recall.
Yes,
no matter how many coaching centers you
go to, no matter how many hours you
spend studying, if you don't have a good
night's sleep, you almost will find it
impossible to learn all that. Su
I 100% agree with this. Nandini,
thank you so much for your time today,
sir. I'm so grateful that you took your
time here to be with us and talk to us
about your experience. Uh I think
teachers like you is what creates future
generations of confident kids.
Thank you so much.
Thank you so much sir.
I really enjoyed being here Nandini. It
was fantastic. A wonderful experience.
I I felt really glad that I shared most
of my experience and inputs about how to
develop a student you know to perform
better on this platform. And thanks for
giving this opportunity to me. Yeah.
Bye. Thanks. Good luck guys. Take care.
Thanks for listening.
Search 'IOE Insights' for more podcasts from the IOE.