Technology's Impact on the EMC Industry, with Anthony Kent

Show Notes

In this episode, Keith and special guest Jesse are joined by Anthony Kent,
VP of Information Technology at Four County EMC, an electric membership cooperative in North Carolina. Anthony shares insights into the technological advancements and challenges faced by electric cooperatives, particularly focusing on the integration of new technologies and AI into their operations.

Conversation Highlights:
[00:17] Introducing our guests, Anthony Kent and Jesse Erickson
[01:17] How Jesse and Anthony met
[02:46] Anthony's career journey and background
[06:32] Explaining what an electric co-op is
[09:18] Technologies impacting Anthony's role
[15:27] AI in the EMC industry
[19:30] Anthony's integration challenges
[24:51] Learning from failures in his role
[29:13] Innovations in the OT space
[33:41] Anthony's message to IT leaders

Notable Quotes:
"You need to have some buffers in place to help protect yourself, your data, and your organization, but AI is here to stay. And it's going to be a bigger part of the future going forward." Anthony Kent [12:23]

"Just keep moving along. We're all human. We all make mistakes. All we can do is just try to be better." Anthony Kent [34:53]

Connect With Anthony Kent
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anthony-k-b3ab0b5/
Off the Wire: https://open.spotify.com/show/4hTvTSA935imZPY41wXS39?si=0c7eb684d6754b51

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Welcome to the Opkalla IT Matters Podcast, where we discuss the important matters within IT as well as the importance of IT across different industries and responsibilities.

About Opkalla:
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Narrator: Welcome to the IT
Matters podcast, where we

explore why IT matters and
matters pertaining to IT.

Keith Hawkey: Welcome to the IT
Matters podcast. I am your co

host, Keith Hawkey. Aaron Bock
will not be with us today. But

we have two special guests on
the on the IT Matters podcast.

I'd like to introduce to you
Jesse Erickson, who is a

technology advisor at Opkalla.

And Anthony Kent, who is the VP
of IT, of Four County Membership

Co Op. Today, really what we
wanted to get into was how is

technology impacting the
Electric Co Op industries, they

operate off a different model
than most publicly traded and

private organizations? A lot of
what they what Anthony has to

deal with is is the operational
technology aspect, how

cybersecurity is impacting his
environment and diving into the

details of Electric Co Ops and
what are the trends? What what

do we see in the future and the
cut when it comes to technology

impacting the industry? Jesse
Erickson, how did you meet

Anthony.

Jesse Erickson: So first, thanks
for letting me jump on the show.

This is actually my first time
doing a podcast. And so I'm

really excited about it. I have
provided content a lot of times

for some of my partners and
other industries that do

podcast, but I'm really looking
forward to the opportunity to

actually talk. So how I know
Anthony. So last year, I went to

Technology Conference in Myrtle
Beach for EMCS. We went there

for Opkalla, trying to showcase
what Opkalla can deliver and how

much value we can add for the
EMC space, stayed in contact and

then just recently said, hey,
you know, my partner, Keith, he

does this podcast based on what
you talk about, and the things

that you post in your content on
your LinkedIn page, I think

you'd be a great asset to this
show. And so that's where we are

right now we're going to talk
through it, we're going to try

to, you know, pull out most of
that information from his mind

in the short hour that we have
with each other. And then

hopefully we can use that to
educate the technology folks out

there.

Keith Hawkey: So Anthony, they
had to start off here, we'd love

to get into somewhat of the
background of how did you end up

where you are? How did you
decide to join the Electric Co

Op, that you manage the IT
environment of? Can you tell us

a little bit about your
background and in your career

journey here?

Anthony Kent: I've always been a
techie from a little kid, I

remember when I was little, you
know, taking apart old boom

boxes and putting them back
together and trying to put more

speakers on and stuff like that.

I've always had a technical
inclination. And after high

school, I was one of those
people that I was not ready to

go to college. So I joined the
Marines and I really wanted to

challenge and something home I
grew up in anyways, one of the

best decisions I ever made.

Joining the Marines did that for
five and a half years had a five

year contract got involuntarily
extended for six months due to

appointment. All good things
that happened. After I got out.

I actually started at a software
cooperative that served Electric

Co Ops, and it was called
Applied Technology Solutions.

It's now owned by Meridian
cooperative, or as part of

merging cooperative. And
anyways, while I was there, we

had I think was about 40 or 50,
electric cooperatives that we

serve. And for some of them, we
were actually the IT department

for them though the rural small
cooperatives. And so I was

basically working day in and day
out with coops and just got

really acquainted with the
industry and the folks in IT and

hearing more about cooperatives.

It's the best business model out
there. I'll say that when go

into that later, after that
actually took the job as IT

manager at a electric
cooperative that we served. It

was Buckeye Rec. And Southeast
Ohio where I grew up. I did that

for three years. Long story
short, wanted to relocate back

to North Carolina, where I was
stationed for the most part in

the Marines and worked for a
while afterwards. So I went back

to North Carolina and I
supported the Department of the

Navy as a cybersecurity analyst
working for Hewlett Packard

Enterprise. Well, first it was
EDS electronic data systems,

Ross Perot's old company, if
people remember that might be

showing my age with that. And
then later it was a Hewlett

Packard Enterprise. But that one
that was really a good stent of

my life and I got to learn a
lot. So I don't know a lot of

folks probably don't know it,
but the Navy Marine Corps

internet is the largest network
in the world don't think as

larger as the internet. So I got
to see the largest network in

the world segment Internet, and,
you know, one of the most secure

environments that you can be in,
I got to see how it operated.

Now, granted, you know, we can't
take that scale to anywhere else

because, you know, they those
are multimillion dollar

contracts. And obviously, you
know, electric cooperatives, we

don't have that type of money,
but a lot of the principles,

I've gotten the take from that,
and apply it in my own way to

the coop world. But anyways, I
worked there for eight years, my

wife, she works at Meridian
cooperative. So even when when I

wasn't working at a co op, I was
hearing about coops all the time

just mean her having talks and
just knowing a lot of the same

people. And an opening I wasn't
looking for a job was very

content before that, but I saw
an opening on LinkedIn for the

IT supervisor, and he was just
like, you know, let me just see

what it's about. Not sure, I'll
want to do it, you know, but

just let's see what it's about.

And once I just started talking
with caught people, like, it's

just that old history just, and
you know, all that work, I've

done kind of kicked in, and it
got my blood pumping. And I was

instantly sold myself within 30
minutes of talking to those

folks. And once I got the
position and shortly after I got

promoted to the Vice President
of IT. But anyway, that's how I

got started in the industry.

Jesse Erickson: That's pretty
awesome. You know, when I first

started talking to folks in the,
you know, energy Co-Op space,

I've been a member for a long
time I live out in the country

in North Carolina, I still
didn't understand, you know,

what a co-ops role is no, you
know, my life or how it even

functions. So I think for our
listeners, you know, can you

kind of give us a little bit
more of an in depth background

on what the energy Co-Op is kind
of its mission, and maybe a

little bit of the role that
technology plays in its

operations.

Anthony Kent: I'll be brief try
to summarize it, because there's

a lot there's a long history to
electric cooperatives,

especially in a nutshell. So
I'll just break it down. There's

three different types of
electric utilities. There's the

IOU, the investor owned
utilities, such as like Duke or

AP, obviously, they're owned by
stockholders. And then there's

municipalities, mainly what I
see municipalities in the

smaller towns or small cities,
and then there's all the rural

area, which no one wanted to
serve. And what happened is

basically, the folks got
together and stood up electric

cooperatives, partner with the
federal government with money

from the federal government to
help finance but anyways, what

we are is so like, for for
county electric, we serve about

35,000, folks, and what they
are, is they're not our

customers or our members. So
they're member owners. One thing

is, as a member owner, what they
get to do is our board of

directors that help, you know,
governance, they do the

governance for the cooperatives,
you know, they can hire and fire

the CEO, the members actually
vote the board. In fact, just

last year, we had an election,
and we had two people running,

we had a new board member
elected, the members here, if

they have an issue, they can go
straight to the top, they can go

straight to the board of
directors and communicate with

them. The other thing as member
owners is so like the margins

that we earn, you know, those
are put back and obviously, we

got to have cash flow to run.

But the excess funds that we
get, eventually they are retired

as capital credits and give them
back to the members. Every coop

kind of doesn't in their own
way. And that's something the

Board of Directors guides, you
know, when and how that's

retired. Back out to the
membership. We're not worried

about our stockholders, we're
worried about the people we

serve. And I think for them,
that's the best possible outcome

they could get with us.

Jesse Erickson: That's pretty
awesome. Good rundown there,

definitely seeing the value in
it.

Keith Hawkey: It sounds like
you're very much a part of the

community. There's democracy and
who's running the co op, you're

not only providing electricity
and energy and power to 35,000

homes, but you're involved in
investing and giving the funds

that are in excess back to the
community that you serve. I

don't understand why this this
is the model everywhere,

Anthony.

Anthony Kent: Yeah, it's, it's
unique. And anyways, it's here

to stay, though. I think there's
cooperatives and all but two

states, I could be wrong. But I
believe that's the case. There's

cooperatives all across. And a
lot of folks, like Jesse

mentioned, you know, they don't
even they're not even aware that

they're part of a cooperative.

But anyways, that's something
anyone should look at. And

there's a lot of stuff that they
do, and you'd be surprised what

they're doing. If you dig into
it.

Keith Hawkey: I'm already
intrigued. And something else

I've been intrigued with is your
job is to drive the strategy and

manage the team that manages
your infrastructure from an IT

standpoint. What technologies
over the past couple of years

have impacted your role and the
IT initiatives of the Electric

Co Op the most that you've seen?

Anthony Kent: I would say the
one that's hitting us the

hardest right now as far as a
new new technology. Well, I

don't know how new it is, but
it's new to us. And that's the

low code toolsets. We do have
one developer in house but I'll

say this cooperatives, so we're
at 35,000 meters, that's

typically how electric
cooperatives kind of measured

their size is by meter count.

The average across the country
is probably about five or 6000

meters. So we're actually
winners cooperatives much larger

than us, but in a whole we're
really small organizations. But

anyway, so most folks don't have
a developer or they don't have a

fleet of developers, we're very
fortunate to have one, the low

code pull set. So in this case,
most of it is Microsoft Power

Apps and Salesforce, it's
allowing folks that, you know,

didn't get a cis degree, you
know, one of our system

administrators kind of picked up
quite a bit on that and enable

us to develop custom tools, you
know, to help meet our needs.

Any company has us whether
you're an Electric Co Op or not,

you're gonna have processes that
are, you know, ancient or

decades old, and, you know,
really can be revamped and

modernized. Our IT department,
we kind of stand out is we're

not just trying to keep the
business running, but we're also

trying to improve the business.

So we're looking at these
processes that are outdated, and

a lot of it is brought to us,
you know, hey, we're doing this

on paper. Now, we'd love to be
able to do this on an iPad or do

it on a computer and, or not
have this in our office, you

know, getting delivered between
our districts, um, there's lots

of things that they're saying
and identifying to us, and we're

looking at the technologies that
we have, and seeing how we can

apply those to help streamline
or make that process better. The

other technology, I would say,
is AI. I think that's the easy

answer. I think AI now I feel
like we're just getting into it,

you know, it's the early stages
of, we're using the AI tool for

our right of way management. So
right away is like the tree

trimming. And for most
cooperatives, you know, our

biggest cost is going to be
power, you know, as purchasing

power. But typically, one of the
next biggest costs is right

away, you know, trimming the
trees down the lines. And so

we're using an AI tool called AI
dash is helping us one validate

our trim cycle, we go on a five
year cycle for our distribution,

and it's helping, you know, is
that the best cycle we want to

do and, and also, there's
certain types of trees, and

there's certain areas where
maybe they got more moisture in

the soil where they're next to a
river or lake or something like

that. And the trees grow faster.

And you know, that five year
cycle might not be fast enough.

And with AI dash, it's
identifying this vegetation, and

basically showing when we should
cut it, you know, that's one

tool. And then there's the tools
that everyone is really familiar

with, like Chat GPT, you know,
of course, reason I do say this,

AI kind of reminds me of the
cloud, going back maybe 1012

years ago, there are a lot of
folks where you were either for

the cloud or completely against
it, there was no middle ground.

And today, you'll find
everyone's using the cloud, you

know, in some shape or form. I
see a lot of folks that you

know, don't want AI in their
environment. I will say this,

you need to have some buffers in
place to help protect yourself,

protect your data, and your
organization. But I think AI I

would look at it like the cloud.

It's it's here to stay. And it's
going to be a bigger part of the

future going forward. You know,
we utilize Chat GPT, we're

piloting Microsoft's co pilot,
because I think there's gonna be

a lot of growth there. Right
now, the one use case we're

wanting to get out of it is just
using it to basically capture

all of our meeting. Instead of
taking notes, let Microsoft

copilot, take the notes and then
summarize the meeting and give

action items out of it. So we're
getting ready to start piloting

that. We've got it in place, we
just haven't had the meeting the

test. So anyways, we're really
looking forward to see what that

brings, especially with like
data analytics, just even with

Chat GPT like you can upload,
you know, a dataset and like a

CSV or spreadsheet. It's amazing
the analytics that can pull from

it, it's really going to
modernize reporting, you know,

it may not be able to do the
visualization, such as other

tools. But as far as just
uploading the dataset and

getting trends and getting
stats, we uploaded a fictitious

data set to Chat GPT and didn't
even realize that we made

mistakes on the data entry. And
it identified, we basically did

our flights and travel. And it
was actually able to identify,

you know, data entry errors, and
that couldn't happen. It was

like, this person can't be
traveling, because you haven't

traveled on on this record. You
know, so anyways, it showed

trends, it showed anomalies. And
was there's a lot of power

there. And I'm sure in the
future is going to do a whole

lot more for us.

Jesse Erickson: Yeah, I actually
see a lot of, you know, one of

the conversations that I had
when I was down in Myrtle Beach

last year was how AI was
enabling just usage monitoring

by the members, right, and being
able to forecast with almost

complete accuracy. When those
peaks and valleys were in power

consumption. And ultimately, for
a co op, correct me if I'm

wrong, you know, having that
type of accuracy in those peak

usage moments, usually results
in a return to the customer at

some point.

Anthony Kent: My understanding
is, for most coops, the cost of

power, the cost of electric us
purchasing power is typically

between 60 and 70% of our total
costs. I mean, that's the bulk

of it, you know, 60 to 70% of
our cost of that about half of

it is the man it's not just the
kilowatt hours and for those

that are in the industry, they
understand demand versus

kilowatt hours. I'm not gonna go
into that, but yeah, the

reducing the peaks, you know,
that can save a lot of money.

And it's really needed and co
ops are already doing

technologies. There's a thing
called conservation of voltage

reduction. And what it is, is
when it depends on where you're

at, but you know, typically in
like a winter, like if you're up

north, especially in the winter,
during the morning is when you

know everyone's taking a hot
shower, turning their heat on.

And that's when you're going to
use the most electric of the

day. And what they found with
CVR is that they can reduce the

voltage just a little bit where
it's still in the thresholds

where things don't break, that
you can reduce that and it'll

actually reduce the power that's
needed during that time. So but

yeah, with AI, like, I'm sure
it's going to take it to the

next level.

Keith Hawkey: Speaking of of AI,
you mentioned earlier that you

are testing copilot that's brand
new for most consumers today, I

think it went GA just a couple
of months ago,

Anthony Kent: That's one of
those things where I've heard a

lot of people, they just want to
put their head in the sand and

don't want it on their network.

If you got that mentality. I
mean, I could be wrong, but I

feel like no people got their
phones with them, you know,

they're gonna get on Chat GPT on
your phone, like they're gonna

find a way to circumvent that if
you're blocking it the way you

know, I think there needs to be
roles and policies in place. But

I feel like the best approach is
to see what it's about, see how

you can apply it and see what
you need to secure on it. And

the only way to do that is to
start looking at it and testing

out that technology.

Keith Hawkey: What are your
thoughts on copilot so far? What

have you tested, do you have any
feedback, any success or failure

stories.

Anthony Kent: It's a new
product. And I feel like they're

still rolling quite a bit out.

But a little disappointed so
far, and just comparing it the

Chat GPT as far as,

Keith Hawkey: Shots fired.

Anthony Kent: I think it'll grow
out. And they're the thing is

they're using chat GPT just the
way they apply it, there are

some things that seem really
cool that I have not tested out.

So the one thing that's awesome,
and this is where you don't want

to use chat GPT is you don't
want to be uploading sensitive

data or anything like that to
it, you got to really watch what

data you're putting into it. But
with Microsoft co pilot, and

this is the part I really need
to test out. And this might be

awesome as you can actually pick
your files, and they can be the

source of your data. And you
know, that's your now don't get

me wrong, Microsoft is my
understanding that they're not

sharing that out. That's your
data. Anyways, need to dig into

that further. We're not yet Are
you ready to test that part out,

but uh, was that so that's a
huge potential, just be able to,

you know, take a spreadsheet or
Word doc and you know, be able

to use that as a source. When
you're given that guidance or

given it the command what you
want to do.

Keith Hawkey: It's amazing to me
the opportunity for productivity

enhancements within the
workplace. And you were

mentioning uploading Excel files
and asking Chat GPT questions to

draw analysis and to, because
before that, that might take a

couple hours out of your day to
work through and understand the

parallels and the correlations
in the data to be able to

extract that within a matter of
seconds. That's life changing.

That's that changes what you
have time to do. Because I know

in IT a lot of the times you
guys are here, you're in the

trenches, you're you're fighting
fires, and you don't have a lot

of time to do that strategic
work. That's so necessary for

driving the organization into
the future.

Anthony Kent: I get poked at a
little bit. A lot of times with

like general emails that I'm
sending out to all employees,

sometimes I'll go back into my
guys area, and they're like Chat

GPT wrote that. I'm like, you
know, just something simple. So

like, we know, we had network
maintenance from 6pm to 8pm. And

I just said, Hey, Chat GPT, you
know, make a, basically generate

an email saying we're doing
network. And really, you know, I

had to tweak it. Of course, you
know, you have to review

everything, and go through it.

But it created a, you know, a
very succinct email, and it was

straightened to the point, and
actually guessed that what

systems would be impacted. And I
had tweaked that a little bit,

but it was pretty unbelievable.

It would've took me 20 minutes,
30 minutes to write that email.

And it took me two minutes to
generate it took me two minutes

to review it. And some about

Jesse Erickson: Yeah, it allows
you to spend the rest of those

16 minutes on something more
specific for your job and just

enhances productivity. Yeah, my
previous job I was I was a

military officer for 26 years.

And I would have loved to have
that capability at my hands just

to manage the sheer amounts of
email that kept me chained to a

desk.

Anthony Kent: These these
phones, they're electronic

leashes. If I could just get it
to respond to my texts, that

would be a huge step too.

Jesse Erickson: Yeah. So we
talked a lot about AI. Right, we

talked about some of the other
current technologies you are

currently using within, you
know, the EMC space. One of my

questions is How do you manage
and integrate all of that

technology? Because I'm sure it
comes with its own set of

challenges, just the integration
alone. And I'm trying to

understand what problems you've
encountered and how you kind of

navigated that challenge.

Anthony Kent: So there's a lot
of challenges for us. Like most

coops are relatively small. I
mean, most organizations out

there are small, you know, we're
not all Packard's or Cisco's and

stuff like that. So we don't
have, you know, a bunch of

bodies that we can throw at
every solution. But specific to

AI, I'll say the good part of
that is, you know, right now,

we're not doing any technical
restrictions or anything like

that. And it's kind of its own
toolset, we're really looking

forward to getting it integrated
into a lot of our systems now,

like aI dash, you know, that was
a product we purchased. And it's

a standalone product. But what
we're looking to do is sorry,

this is actually more future
stuff I'd like to see done. And

it's really just communicating
with our vendors, though. So we

actually had Cinterion cares,
one of our vendor for our call

center, and they do our IVR. And
we're talking about the future

and talking about AI. And we
really shared a lot of the same

thoughts on where this could go.

And like, so for like call
centers, if you work with a call

center, you know, typically to
record the calls. And then you

know, also like, the supervisors
can jump on a call and like, you

know, kind of silently listen.

And if they want to, they could,
you know, do a team chat or do

some kind of chat and kind of
coach them on the side, what

we're talking about with with
CenturionCARES is, you know,

wouldn't it be awesome, if AI
could actually analyze all those

call recordings and give us, you
know, give us metrics from that,

you know, because the text to
speech that's available, you

know, just getting that
integrated to where, you know,

it can say how many times the
people talk about my power bill

was too high, or how many people
were interested in solar, you

know, right, now, we have to
manually note all that stuff. So

and our supervisors don't have
the time to listen to every

call, that would be impossible,
you know, they can only listen

to a handful, you know, we so to
have a tool that can look at all

that data and give us all those
metrics, that would be so

awesome. So I think one of the
biggest things is really just

working with your vendors
communicating with your vendors.

And hopefully, you guys share
the same dream. And this case,

we 100% do, they're already
looking into the, you know,

those solutions. The other part
I did miss on is like the

coaching, like you could have aI
listening to the call and say

they bring up solar, well, he
could bring up like a cheat

sheet of like your solar
programs and stuff like that,

you know, bring up you know,
they all have notes, but you

know, it's going to take them a
minute to go find them. And if

you could have, you know, it
listening in the background, and

just pre populate their screen
with whatever they're talking

about. There's so much that's
possible out there. But I think

as far as that coops, we use a
lot of unique software, for the

most part. And with that, I
think it's just important that

we're reaching out to our
vendors and communicating with

them. Because we've got a lot of
things we would like to tack on

accomplish with tools such as
AI, and you know, we just got to

have started having that
conversation making them aware

with the like the low code tools
like such as Salesforce and

Microsoft Power Apps. That one,
you know, we're hitting snags to

getting them integrated into our
systems. And I'll say this,

we're blessed because our CEO
and board knows how important IT

is. And we have more IT staff
than most coops our size, we've

got two folks that know the
databases pretty well and could

get stuff integrated. So what
we've done, and also working

with a vendor, we've been able
to get data out of other systems

and pushed up into Salesforce,
you know, we're scrubbing, we're

not putting any PII or anything
like that. But we're putting the

data needed to basically build
tools off of and do that. So

we're doing like energy audits,
people, we've got folks that go

out and do energy audits at the
home. And now they're able to

basically capture that data
notes in there instead of on a

piece of paper, they can capture
it Salesforce. And you know, if

someone calls in said they had
an issue, and you know, they

could see if an energy audit has
been done in the past and what

the results were, you know, talk
to the member about that there's

a million things to do. But for
that one, we had to have the

expertise to be able to get that
data out. You know, sometimes

the vendor can work with that.

It's just really having the
bodies and the capabilities out

there. It's hard for coops
because I know a lot of coops

they've got a single individual.

And I really don't know how they
do they really need more

support.

Jesse Erickson: Obviously, you
know, you have a plan for the

future with the technologies
that are out there you have a

very healthy conversation with
the vendors that you are already

partnered with. And you're
actually helping them innovate

based on use case. So that's
tremendous that you have that

open line of communication.

Keith Hawkey: I can already tell
you today just based on the the

IT leaders that that I work with
professionally, you're ahead of

the curve, for sure when it
comes to finding applicability,

with the artificial intelligence
tools that are available today

and having it land and make
impact quickly but safely as

well. You know, there are the
precautions that you're taking.

And obviously you're achieving
results very quickly. I actually

learned a few tips and tricks
today just listening to you. So

I appreciate you sharing and I'm
sure it's valuable to the

audience's listening today as
well. Leading an IT team comes

with successes and it comes with
unexpected challenges. I'd love

to hear about successes, but I
actually I personally think that

the failures or the mismatched
expectations of of a certain

project going left or haywire, I
tend to find those more

interesting. And you learn from
failures. Do you have any

stories that where you had these
these grand ambitions about a

project that you were working on
that didn't quite pan out

exactly the way you'd planned?

Anthony Kent: Unfortunately, we
have several of those stories.

Keith Hawkey: Yeah, I wanted one
this morning?

Anthony Kent: I'll be generic
because this is a trend that we

learned. And I mean, just, we're
all learning. I mean, I've

learned a lot in the last five
years for counting, I've learned

a tremendous amount. One thing
early on, that we had a lot of

issues with, with rolling out a
new technology, or is basically

just rolling that out on how we
think it should be. And even if

that was the best way, if you
don't have end user buy in that

solution is not going to work.

This isn't all me this is a lot
of this is my folks, you know,

one of the weaknesses we had,
when I started, one of the

things that was brought to my
attention was the communication

with IT department, you know, I
was told basically, it needs to

be better. And anyways, and
that, that goes in all areas,

that's us communicating with
each other, and us

communicating, you know, with
the other folks for counting

EMC. But we had a few instances
where we rolled out a product,

we went from the beginning to
the end, and we didn't talk to

the people using the product
until the end. And I can tell

you now, after doing it a few
times, you never want to do. I

mean, I guess there's probably
an instance where you would, but

you really need to get those
folks involved at the beginning

of the story at the beginning of
the project. One, it just helps

them buy into it either way,
just being part of that

conversation. You know, they
felt like they've been heard,

and they kind of understand why
things are the way they are.

Almost every project that we do
now, if it's something that

we're rolling out to, you know,
affects a group or a party, you

know, not security, of course,
but like rolling out a new

product. So we did truck
inspections, and this is now

this is a success story. But
it's because we've learned off

of previous failures. But with
truck inspections, we wanted to

go from paper to digital, and
also do stuff with that date

instead of filing in the box and
put it up in a storage room and

never see it again, forever. One
of my folks, Earl Moore, he's a

system administrator, he got the
folks at the very beginning and

said, you know, how do you
envision this? How do you see

this? He would meet with those
folks, like every two weeks

every month, you know, sometimes
there's a little bit of a lag,

and, you know, other projects go
on. But with having all the

people involved in that
conversation, this has been a

very successful transition, I
was told up front, that this is

not going to work, it's too hard
to go from a piece of paper to

an iPad, because there's too
many categories. And you know,

all this, we actually made the
process better, it's easier,

like the folks, and since we got
them involved, it's not only

that, I mean, we built a good
product, but you know, having

them involved and listen to
them, the guys, you know, they

think it's a better solution,
like outside of all the extra

stuff we got out of it. For
them, it's easier to do it on

the iPad than it is to do it on
a piece of paper. But we've had

several instances where, you
know, we built that product

without, you know, speaking with
folks. And the end, either we'd

get very little feedback,
basically what would happen was

we get folks that wouldn't use a
product. So you know, we'd spend

20-40 hours even more working on
a project, there's no one using

that. And I can tell you from a
person that works in IT, there

is nothing more disheartening to
me or to the folks I work with,

is building, you know, working
your butt off, and getting a

product out there. And for it
not to be you, that really,

really hurts hurts the soul. You
know, a lot of that was our own

doing a lot of that was my own
doing. And we've learned to just

basically incorporate the folks
cannot stress the importance of

that you have to be that.

Jesse Erickson: You put the
human touch on technology. And

really what you did is
leadership one on one, right? So

you create buy in with the end
user. And so, I mean once that

once you have that almost every
plan you put in place will

execute, you know. So that's a
tremendous that you're able to

have that foresight to be able
to add to the leadership

challenge to onboarding new
technologies. Looking ahead,

though, you know, without
talking about AI, because I know

that you guys are getting ready
to roll it but looking ahead and

and you can look at the OT space
and the IoT space. You know,

what technology trends or
innovations are you kind of most

excited for?

Anthony Kent: OT is moving at a
blistering speed, maybe for the

large organizations that are
already there. But for a lot of

us smaller organizations, you
know, at first it was just

getting kind of like remote
connectivity, being able to

remotely control something or
turn something off, you know,

back feed an area or disable a
circuit so people can safely

work on it. You know, that's
decades old at this point, you

know, people were looking,
they're wanting to get analytics

or wanting to know is this phase
out of balance, you know, as you

know, what's the boat is looked
like now online. So really what

you start to see with the OT
environment, this is kind of

getting to the grid, but you'd
see a lot of stuff at the

substation. And what we're doing
now is we're actually going down

the distribution line, we're,
you know, we've got all the

analytics out of what we want
out the substation, and there's

some, you know, we're still
working on but we want to get

more analytics, we want to go
down, you know, where the

members that are the consumers
at and see what the, you know,

the voltage is like, you know,
what's the load, like, on their

lines, we don't roll out
something that doesn't have

communications or connectivity.

Now, you know, back in the day,
they would just roll something

out, or recloser a breaker, and
they wouldn't have no

connectivity to physically go
there, you know, and make those

changes. Now, you know,
obviously, you can still do that

you can physically go there. But
we want to be able to do it from

the office, because it reduces,
you know, our response time.

And, you know, one of the
biggest things, you know, with

coops, you know, we want
affordable, safe, reliable

energy. And you know, the
reliability comes into that we

want to, you know, if there is
an issue, we want to get the

power back on as soon as
possible, there's a lot of talk

of OT versus it. And a lot of
people probably won't agree with

this, but the way I look at it,
you're either going to do this

down the road, I don't, this is
one of those things where it's

kind of like the cloud and AI,
like, there's, there's no going

backwards, there's only going
forwards, and the engineers are

wanting more data analytics, you
know, everyone's wanting more

analytics out of these ot
systems. So it's either, you're

gonna have to build that
connection into your IT network,

or you're gonna have to put
somewhat like an IT product over

in your ot environment,
everyone's got to figure that

out on their own, the OT network
that used to be just kind of

like the, for us, that'd be like
the SCADA devices, and maybe one

server and a couple of
workstations that could access

it, that is, the old days, like
things are moving forward,

there's a lot more servers, a
lot more systems in place.

Jesse Erickson: One of the
things that I'm always conscious

of is just like critical
infrastructure, you know, we

live in a dynamic world, and
there's there's state and

non-state actors all over the
place, we have our grid, you

know, is the lifeblood to our
way of life. And so seeing these

technologies, decrease the
likelihood of any, you know,

significant issues with it is
kind of what I'm keep paying

attention to.

Anthony Kent: Unfortunately,
either if whether you're opening

a hole to the IT network, or
you're putting another system in

your OT, you're adding risk to
that environment, you can't

eliminate it, you can mitigate
it, but you're gonna add risk,

you know, and you what you want
to do is you just want to reduce

that the best you can. I love
the fundamentals. Like I know,

there's a lot of tools out there
and stuff. But you know, if you

look at like the Purdue model,
or the NIST guidance on the OT

environment, like I would always
recommend anyone starting there

and in any application, use that
guidance to put that system in

place. Once you get the
fundamentals, then look at the

other tools that can help you
out. And I'll say this, there

are a lot of new tools coming
out for the OT environment. And

matter of fact, we're most of
the co-ops in North Carolina

have been working together with
our statewide organization NCMC.

And we're applying for grant
money to get some OT tools.

Keith Hawkey: The convergence of
IT and OT are going to

dramatically impact the security
concerns going forward for for

every organization sounds like
there, there isn't an an easy

way to implement efficiency,
whether you're bringing OT into

IT or IT into OT without very
consciously considering the

potential threat landscape as
you do this. I've learned a lot

Anthony, during this podcast, I
can probably say the same for

Jesse. In closing here. One
thing that we like to do is if

you could send a message out to
an IT leader, you know, fresh on

the job, what message would you
send to them? What's an

important tenant you live by, or
something that you learned that

is applicable to any IT leader
that's looking to make an

impact?

Anthony Kent: What I would say
is sometimes, and everyone

that's in IT listening knows
that this job, and doesn't

matter what your role is, it can
be overwhelming. Honestly, I

know cybersecurity has been out
there but a lot of it's

relatively new to a lot of folks
in the industry. A lot of the

changes that have in there, the
changes are coming drastically.

Try not to get overwhelmed and
think about all the things that

you're not doing that you
shouldn't be doing or you feel

you should be doing. Focus on
improving. Like, you know,

you're after you're being better
than you were last year. You

know, you can't tackle these
things overnight. A lot of these

projects can take, some of them
can take years to get to. And I

would just say you know, try not
to get overwhelmed, break things

down into smaller bites where
you can handle and just focus on

being better, whether that's
with security, or technology,

you know, being better than you
were last year. Just Just keep

moving along. We're all human.

We all make mistakes. You know,
all we can do is just try to be

better than you know the next
year. I do have something I

would like push the folks
outside IT that I think is

important to the industry. And
this is really to like the CEOs

and the senior leaders
leadership is, you know, as I've

mentioned, a lot of these
co-ops, they can have a single

person, I've met a lot of these
folks, I have been one of these,

where I was the only person, you
know, in IT at the organization.

And as good as these people can
be, like, there's no way they're

doing all the fundamentals,
there's no way that they're

doing least privileged across
all systems, there's no way that

they're patching every system.

You know, zero trust, you know,
they could maybe take a stab at

it. But there's, there's no way
one individual, even without

sourcing a lot of this can do.

And I guess what I would like to
say to senior leadership, you

gotta have the IT staff to
support your business. To me,

it's a cost of doing business,
you know, we rely on IT so

heavily, you have to protect it
and to protect it, you have to

be doing a lot of these
fundamentals.

Keith Hawkey: And I couldn't
agree more. Anthony, what's a

way that our listeners can find
you if we have someone that

wants to bounce some ideas off
of your expertise, in your

experience? How can our
listeners reach out?

Anthony Kent: Sure. I'm on
LinkedIn, of course, and I have

a podcast 'Off the Wire'. And
actually, we're going to be in

the transition of revamping that
a little bit. We were focused on

cybersecurity, but we're also
going to start looking at

technology stuff as well. But
'Off the Wire' or LinkedIn is a

good way to find me.

Keith Hawkey: Awesome. Well,
we'll include those in the show

notes. And really appreciate it
Anthony, you joined the podcast

and Jesse thanks so much for for
being a special guest as well.

We will catch you on the next
episode. Thanks for joining

everyone.

Jesse Erickson: Thanks, Keith.

Thanks, Anthony.

Narrator: Thanks for listening.

The IT Matters podcast is
produced by Opkalla, an IT

advisory firm that helps
businesses navigate the vast and

complex IT marketplace. Learn
more about Opkalla at

opkalla.com.