The Secret Life of TK Dutes

The crash already happened.
Now we’re sitting in the smoke, asking what’s left to build with.

TK and Dr. Nicole Rawls talk about what comes after the heartbreak—the moment you realize the grind doesn’t owe you anything, but maybe your spirit still does. They dig into anger that turns into clarity, grief that becomes blueprint. Because legacy isn’t the titles or the plaques. It’s the stories that survive you. It’s how you decide to live when the old script stops working.

Producer Kristen Bennett slides back in, helping TK unpack the glass cliffs, the white lies, the “good jobs” that drain the life out of you. Together, they ask the real question: if the hustle don’t love you back, what will you love instead?

This part is about aftercare.
About turning heartbreak into inheritance.
About looking at the wreck and saying, ok—now what?

Welcome back to The Secret Life of TK Dutes.

Special thanks: Dr. Nicole Rawls, Kristen Bennett (Producer), Manny Faces (Engineer), Faybeo’n Mickens (Marketing), Pat Mesiti-Miller (Theme Music),  Gabrielle Smith (Art), 

👉🏾 Follow TK on IG: @tastykeish | @philosfuturemedia
👉🏾 Go behind the scenes on Patreon: patreon.com/c/SecretLifeofTK

★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

Creators and Guests

Host
Keisha "TK" Dutes
Host/ Executive Producer
Designer
Gabrielle Smith
Visual Designer/Show Art
Producer
Kristen Bennett
Producer: Episode 1
Editor
Manny Faces
Post Production Lead

What is The Secret Life of TK Dutes?

The Secret Life of TK Dutes is the story of what it means to become when the system won’t let you be. One woman sets out into the world, looking for ways to get ahead as an Artist. Producer. Daughter, Sister. Partner.

Together with those who bear witness, TK throws away the scripts and looks for answers, in airports, dentists offices, across borders.

Each episode is a new world, pioneering the art of loose autobiography to build the picture of a life in a community of voices.

What happens when you stop doing what is expected of you and start doing YOU?

A better life can be a hustle. It doesn’t have to be a secret.

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

So then what do you do? Okay. So now you recognize, wait a minute. I'm in a space that I already know that the person above me is not as competent as me, and the person below me can't do shit for me.

TK Dutes:

So then

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

what do you do? So then stop doing the job of your boss. Can you allow the space to reveal itself and you sit back and be the participant? This is where we have to understand how much we are trained as a strategy. You must understand the reality of the situation you're in, not the anxiety, not what you were told, not the so called rules.

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

Again,

TK Dutes:

what

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

is the situation you are in? Because what is the reality you are in, not how the fear has been used to dictate your lens that you are seeing the space in. Those are two different perspectives and realities. Yeah. So when you are there, then you allow the space to reveal itself.

TK Dutes:

Yeah.

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

Right? You have got to allow yourself to not be the fixer because that is the tool. That is the way we are taught to use ourselves in these spaces.

TK Dutes:

And we're taught early, school age, you know, because you who's gonna fit Oh, my God. Yeah. Who's gonna

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

We're talking to family first.

TK Dutes:

Take grandma to, you know, you're eight years old, taking grandma to the doctor talking, you know, if you're immigrant, I'm a first generation immigrant child, you know, so you're translating in the streets, you're you're just nothing but a kid. Next you go to school, right? What do they do to girls? A lot of times they sit them next to a rowdy boy because why some of that's going to rub off. She's gonna calm him down because she's just trying to concentrate.

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

Now we go to work. And and you are told in that moment that your job is to regulate somebody else's emotions. So think about this. Think about this right now. How much of your job, especially podcast, most of my job when I was teaching administration was managing other people's fucking emotions.

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

Yes.

TK Dutes:

All the time.

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

All the goddamn time.

TK Dutes:

So far, 400,000 black women, give or take a 100,000, have been pushed out of the workforce during Trump's current administration. And let's be real, it didn't stop or start there. DEI rollbacks, shady office politics, systemic bias, black women have been getting the old heave hole off the glass cliff long before Trump. This is bigger than one administration, y'all. From Kamala Harris and Karen Attia to the Obamas and Venus and Serena, nobody's immune.

TK Dutes:

And I guarantee you, it's also your auntie, your mama, maybe even your daddy. Black folks, people of color, anybody marginalized, we've all had to smile through the systemic menstrual show. And yet, we keep showing up. We figure out how to make it work. We create new lanes when old ones close.

TK Dutes:

That's why black women lead the way in entrepreneurship. We've been building something out of nothing forever. So even though we may hope for the best time and time again, child, How do we reclaim our lives and rethink our legacies? Welcome to The Secret Life of TK Dutest. I am her.

TK Dutes:

She is me. This show is a loose autobiography of where I'm at right now, burnt out, pushing through, and trying my damnedest to come out the other side. This is part two of our first episode, The Hustle Don't Love You Back, produced by my friend, Los Angeles producer, Kristen Bennett, who we'll talk to afterwards. But right now, we'll continue to talk to anthropologists, artists, and professional black woman, doctor Nicole Rawls. In the tape, you'll hear past TK refer to her as Doctor.

TK Dutes:

Truesdale. And in narration, present TK refers to her as Doctor. Rawls. Let's get back into it. Act four, the glass cliff.

TK Dutes:

There's this concept in a workplace called managing up. Most of the time, and for most people, it just means cultivating a relationship with your boss that's beneficial to both of you. Making them look good, setting them up for success so that you can show how invaluable you are, anticipating their wants and needs, and being at the ready before they even know they need you. The idea being that eventually this will pay off for you in the future by helping it pay off for your boss in the present. But for many marginalized people and black women especially more often than not it means something else.

TK Dutes:

It's swallowing daily microaggressions with a smile. It's being responsible for managing your boss's emotions or even just how they feel about you? It's doing your boss's job for them and covering for their missteps or even lies? It's watching your less competent boss mismanage and harm your team and stepping up to shield your junior colleagues from those harmful behaviors. It's always being held to a higher account than they are.

TK Dutes:

Some people just think of it as paying your dues or taking your lumps until you can reap the rewards. But thing is, for us, it rarely if ever pays off. Sometimes we lie to ourselves though. Maybe if I swallow shit in a job I love or a job that makes a difference in the world or a job where my work has a platform and can be appreciated by the masses then maybe it's worth it. But what you're swallowing is poison.

TK Dutes:

It's spiritual suicide bit by tiny bit. But what's I can't leave though, you know?

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

Uh-huh, but who told you you can't leave?

TK Dutes:

Doc, you got me.

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

Right? Who told you you can't leave? And if you feel like you have to still be in this space because you cannot leave, or you cannot move, or it is too scary, then the first way you extract yourself from that space is to stop trying to fix it, and stop trying to be validated by it.

TK Dutes:

Yeah. Okay.

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

And when you do that, you do move differently.

TK Dutes:

I do.

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

Because what you're doing is you're taking your authority back.

TK Dutes:

Yeah. So on that note Yes.

Kristen Bennett:

I'm curious because, like, you know, like, you've heard of DABDA. Right? Like, the stages of grief.

TK Dutes:

Yes. Disappointment, anger, bargaining. Wait. No. Denial.

TK Dutes:

Anger. Bargaining. Depression. Depression. Acceptance.

TK Dutes:

I think I'm approaching acceptance. The acceptance that this life is this. This is it.

Kristen Bennett:

Yeah. I wanna hear about how we went. So it doesn't fit exactly, but, like, and this is me presuming. Correct me if I'm wrong. But at a certain point, your heartbreak it goes from heartbreak to anger.

TK Dutes:

Yes. Yes.

Kristen Bennett:

Can you pinpoint the point where you were like, actually, fuck you. Fuck you. Fuck this. Like, I and, like, how dare you take this from me? Like, when did it do you know when that happened?

Kristen Bennett:

And, like, how did it happen?

TK Dutes:

In the past five years, there was always like the it was a undercurrent. There was a moment where I decided to stop, because I promise I tried yo like the whole like, code switch really hard. And so then I started to do a soft code switch, right? Like I'm not gonna do too much, but I'm still gonna be out here like, you know, hey, yeah, we can get this project done. And then I started to go, yeah, yeah, we got you.

TK Dutes:

I got you. We can do it. Right? And then I then I started going, yeah, fuck yeah. Right?

TK Dutes:

So then I started to, like, in the soft cold switch, that's when the anger started, because I was just like, why do I still have to do this? Because this is so dumb. Right? And one thing I hate feeling is dumb. Nothing makes me more angry than feeling dumb.

TK Dutes:

That you can't accept me. Right? Like, because I know, you know, I'm smart. So then why why can't I say fuck? Yeah.

TK Dutes:

Let's fucking do it. Right? No, but I gotta dress it up and be like, absolutely, I can get that to you tomorrow, Bob. Right? Or like, when we were in a project together, and we had to dumb down the scripts.

TK Dutes:

Every time the script got dumber, I got angrier. Yeah. I got angrier, and I got angrier, and I couldn't show it. I couldn't didn't have nowhere to put it. And then the validation of other people, even outside of our team, that was just like, is this getting dumber?

TK Dutes:

And knowing that the people that are selling this product, right, have no real interest. The lies. Right? So they're lies. So now I'm like, y'all are lying.

TK Dutes:

I'm confused because I can only do what you say. So feeling duped, maybe angry. That establishment was learning tools against us. Right? Our tool.

TK Dutes:

Manipulation.

Kristen Bennett:

That's what they're doing.

TK Dutes:

Yeah. Manipulation. And every time we would go into a project because I know that you get pitched similarly. People pitch me the black shit. Yeah.

TK Dutes:

They pitch me the woman shit. They pitch me the hard stuff. They go, TK, you could do this. I know you're the one for it. So I'm, like, excited because you see me.

Kristen Bennett:

That's the trust that you've been seeking the entire time. Right? You trust me to do this thing.

TK Dutes:

And then I thought, oh, when they say let her cook, I thought every time this is the key. When you say disappointment and then each level of disappointment has 10 more disappointments. Every time I kept letting myself believe that they was gonna let me cook. Yeah. And that was the biggest lie and disappointment and manipulation of this entire process of being in a person that has grown from independent to establishment.

TK Dutes:

I'm like, yeah. Yeah. I can do it. I can do it. But do I want to do it?

TK Dutes:

Not not the way that they you know I'm saying? Not the way that they ask us to, you know? Like, that's where the anger came in and not being protected. Right? Because when you're the black woman that has to say the thing, the difficult thing, and having your bosses or people reflect that in a in a debrief, but not in the main thing, you should have said it.

TK Dutes:

You're my boss. You should have said it. Right? Okay. So I've learned, right?

TK Dutes:

So like in in a process, I'm gonna keep using us as examples. We work together. I learned that I don't want you to be the producer that has to say the thing. And sometimes it does help. Right?

TK Dutes:

Like, we formulate it in a way that we're both saying the thing. Wink. Right? That they can so they can receive it. But but I'm not bringing it up first as a person that, like, is running the project.

TK Dutes:

I'm not gonna let you fucking jump out the window. These motherfuckers was pushing me out the window every day. And then we would get in the debrief, and they would go, TK, that was such a smart thing, he said. You should have said the smart thing.

Kristen Bennett:

Then why didn't you say this?

TK Dutes:

They absolutely agree.

Kristen Bennett:

So what this is, the it feels like when you are handed those opportunities, and this is something that I think happens to a lot of black women. Right? They talk about the glass cliff. Yes. Right?

Kristen Bennett:

It's like they're setting you up to fail, or they're only bringing you in when everything has gone to shit. Yeah. And they have no resources to fix it, and they go, well, I guess we'll finally let them take a shot at doing this thing, but we'll make it so that, like, you know

TK Dutes:

Yeah.

Kristen Bennett:

If they succeed, you know, then that's everybody's win. But if they fail, which they inevitably will because we have set them up from beginning to fail, then that is an indicator that you are not good enough. And it's like, no. Y'all couldn't fix it either.

TK Dutes:

No. That's why y'all called me in. And you know what? This is the heartbreak part. When I said iterated and tried and whatever.

TK Dutes:

Because I also talked to I have friends that I like are different demographics that and I talked to them and I trust them and they've given me good feedback and they care about me. And I've had sometimes throttle my interactions with them. Yes. When I realized that they love me and they want the best for me, but they're giving me white advice. And I forget because I love them and trust them.

TK Dutes:

I took the white advice and applied it to my black life and it didn't work. It doesn't work. And I just love these people so much. Like, I'm thinking about a friend right now. I'm thinking about two moments.

TK Dutes:

And I was just like, I feel so dumb. I realized looking back, why did I not that why did I take that white advice? I should have known that was white advice. I studied these niggas. Right?

TK Dutes:

And like, I went and applied it because they believed in me, because they validated. They were like, cause I I'm like, you know what? I'm not crazy. Right? I have let me let me ask someone outside my thing just to see.

TK Dutes:

So I go, friend, I'm gonna tell you about a couple situations. And I said, is this normal? And they're like, that's crazy, TK. You're absolutely correct. Did you do this, that, and the third?

TK Dutes:

And I goes, I did. And they go, okay, try one more thing. And I go, yeah, let me try one more thing. And I forgot that that's not for me. It's not for you.

TK Dutes:

And then when it doesn't work, I got sad. I got resentful.

Kristen Bennett:

And they don't know better. Is that other

TK Dutes:

thing too? No. They don't know. No. And I just was like, fuck, bro.

TK Dutes:

I just applied white advice to my black life. So I stopped doing a lot of stuff.

Kristen Bennett:

And that's, I guess, the depression part of it.

TK Dutes:

Yeah.

TK Dutes:

Glass cliff or open window? Black advice or white advice? I'm just tired of being sacrificed on the progressive corporate media alter. Like real talk, like something has got to change and since the industry won't, I guess it's gotta be me. Act five, the cleansing fire.

TK Dutes:

Okay, cool. So like you said, don't be trying to fix it. Assess if you even wanna stay in that space. And also, yeah, like, know that this is all learned behavior.

TK Dutes:

-Yeah.

TK Dutes:

-On my side, on our side, and also on their side. So we're together having this symbiotic relationship that one of us, low key, we don't wanna be in. So now how do we break that pattern? So I'll tell you how, like, for me, I don't know, I started to reclaim or what I think is reclaiming my life is like through creativity. I said, I need something to do with my hands that takes me off the computer because literally doc, every time I opened the laptop, because the laptop was a place of, you know, we're doing this recording right now, right?

TK Dutes:

Like, so I opened the laptop and it could be two people that are making it a hostile work environment for me and my producers. It could be an email that's on fire that, you know, so the laptop became like, I don't even want to see it. So I wanted to do something with my hands and I started to do visual art while I was still in the situation. And I noticed that on the times that I was spending doing art and doing things with my hands, not being able to touch my phone or open the laptop, I felt much better. It grew into a thing and now that I'm low key, not low key doc, let me be real high key, I consider myself a visual artist now, Right?

TK Dutes:

Amongst the many other hobbies that a girl like me would have. So that's how I found it. But like, if someone is in the heat, in the flame, how does someone reclaim their creativity? And is there a step before that? Because I think there's like that feeling, that anger too, that you need to have before you get to like, oh, well, I'm gonna solve this by doing something, journaling, reading, or going going on vacations and shit.

TK Dutes:

Like, can you talk about that place where you get back to yourself?

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

It goes back to believing in reality, right? There is a way that that is when you have to, what I call, reality check by stopping time. So how do you do that? You've got to come back in your body, you

TK Dutes:

have to feel. This is

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

why I start with reality checking as a way to get into the body. When I work with folks, and when I talk with folks, especially in groups, I try to almost overwhelm off the bat so that you have to stop and get grounded. And I'm always asking, what do you feel? Where do you feel it? And what does the feeling feel like?

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

Because in that way, it's not what you think. I want to know what you feel. I want you to be able to identify that feeling. I want you to be able to locate that feeling so that when that feeling comes again you are now associating it. If I got a tingling in my stomach and it is making the back of my neck hot and it feels like pins and needles, and then you are tracking that and you realize that's happening every time you're talking to Chad from HR, who really is, have you fucked up?

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

Because you realize that he's doing something crazy with you. You start to believe you. In that moment, what you do in reaction is no longer trying to mitigate his feelings. You're realizing in that moment something else is happening. That is taking the time back because that allows you to sit in your body.

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

Once you're in your body, this is when you can start to give yourself permission to actually be human again. That's where creativity comes in. Right? So when you are in your body, and you start to feel I tell people all the time, I work with anger and rage a lot. I'm Scorpio rising, I got a lot of fire.

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

A lot of fucking fire. But I think anger and rage is important, especially for women and fems in particular, to embrace, because that is the emotion that is both feminized when it comes from certain bodies, but then we are only taught a very reactive, hot, masculine type of anger. We don't understand that it's fire and it will burn some shit away that needs to be burned away so that we have better fertile ground. That's when you can play.

TK Dutes:

We need that.

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

We need that, right? And I think this idea, we talk all the time about how like our generation, the middle millennial, how we don't look as old as like our generation's ahead of us, you know, and like all this stuff. Yeah, that's cute. We also don't know how to play. We also don't know how to literally put our hair down and have fun because we've always been told to hustle and grind.

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

We were literally told when the stock market crashed, our job was to get three jobs. And we said cute and thought it was cute and made a whole And bang on did it.

TK Dutes:

Did it.

TK Dutes:

And did it

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

well. Right? And now we are burnt the hell out because it's not sustainable. When we're talking about creativity, y'all, there's a way that we have to understand that it's okay if there's nothing produced in terms of giving likes or getting money. Like we have to learn how to sit in the creative space because that's the dreaming.

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

That's the strategy. So say, let's go back to this idea. You're at the job. You realize you got your fucked up. You're in your body now and you're realizing that how you are operating and moving is not working.

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

But in this moment, you feel as if you don't know what to do or where to go. That to me is a perfect moment of a crossroad moment of you realizing that now you have to allow yourself and take back what was stolen from you, which was your rest. So now you are taking back time, but you are also disrupting the space because you are not moving the same with me. You probably didn't even say a damn thing. You just moved differently.

TK Dutes:

Yeah. We're breaking shit.

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

You're breaking shit.

TK Dutes:

And yeah, how I was operating wasn't working. I stopped watching the news, shit that I had to do because I had to be in the know. I just stopped doing. My anger showed on the internet because I needed a hit with some sort of interaction, some way to lash out, something to get me out of these terrible feelings that I had about the world. The way that I was ready to argue with people was crazy, like bring it.

TK Dutes:

But I needed an outlet. Eventually I stopped doing that because growth. And I pivoted to a healthier outlet, trying to take different workshops. I took every workshop I saw y'all. Black women stress relief, yoga with a black lady, breathe with black people gathering in a zoom.

TK Dutes:

Do you feel sad, mad, dejected, bad? Take this class. I took a somatic breath work class, really channeling my mom's love of breathing here. She would have been proud. Some of those things were interesting.

TK Dutes:

Some a little disappointing. Side note to y'all organizers, if y'all are marketing it as capital b black, then I'm here because I wanted to commune with capital b black people. Mixed crowds are cool, but I came here to be in a place where we can all talk our shit. Still, I wanted to access that cleansing anger yo. That anger that Doctor.

TK Dutes:

Rawls was talking about. The kind that burns all the hurt and trauma away to reveal fertile ground kind of anger.

TK Dutes:

So maybe some of that somatic shit worked because I was feeling it in my body. I had, like, an interview and I was like, felt it in my body, like, just this experience that I had that I'm gonna tell you about. When I fucking I had an interview that basically they were like, you can go to the next on like, I know you. I know you could do this. Like we were having a moment.

TK Dutes:

And they were like, if you're interested, we could take this to the next level, the next conversation. And I said, You know what, I have more questions. We got a zoom. And the person was telling me all the things. And I actually was a person of color.

TK Dutes:

I trusted them. But the yellow flags were there. They were in the room. And my body reacted so much so that like, I could feel my body making like, woo, woo, woo sound in my head. And I was getting red, and my torso got red.

TK Dutes:

And that's the feeling that you're about to start crying, because they were just saying stuff that like, I know that could be navigated, but the most closest experience to me was the one that I had recently had. And that was like, this is about to be a shit show. Like, my brain was just like, this is gonna be something that's gonna have a lot of cooks in the kitchen. So I'm like, who do I report to? What was what's the process here?

TK Dutes:

And like, they were just it was too loose for me. It was too loose, and they can't give you no concrete shit. So my body and my brain started freaking out, and the universe, shout out to that bitch, came through. And two things happened. On my end of the call, someone knocked on my door, like, or something happened.

TK Dutes:

My attention got. And then something happened on the lady's side. And she's like, well, you know what? Actually, seems like things are happening right now. Hit me up.

TK Dutes:

Message me later. Close the laptop. Have a private freak out. And I was like, I took that at first I I took it in two ways is I'm not ready. Uh-huh.

TK Dutes:

So then I was like, what does that mean for me working? I had to figure out how am I gonna work? I'm not ready. Then the second thing was, Oh, I've never felt that before. And is this progress?

TK Dutes:

Because I was allowing myself to override all those feelings. And that's then I always blame myself for getting into these situations, but only because the situations are really truly was manipulative. Yeah. So I had not had all the information. This lady was really being honest.

TK Dutes:

She was like, no shame, no tea if you don't want it. And I was like, you know what? I allowed myself to believe her when she said that, which I think is fucking progress. I allowed myself to believe her. I also trusted her in her experiences and that she wouldn't hold it against me.

TK Dutes:

And then the fact that I could feel it. And I say, you know what? I'm not gonna get mad. I'm gonna say that's progress. And you listened is the thing.

TK Dutes:

And I listened.

Kristen Bennett:

You listened when it happened. Yeah.

TK Dutes:

Act six, the disruptor.

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

I've had a couple of conversations with folks who mean well, but they're like, you didn't really break anything, Nicole. You surrendered or you got go of a life. And at first, I was like, well, maybe I did. And then I realized, no, I'm really intentional with my fucking words. I broke shit.

TK Dutes:

Yes.

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

Right? There is a way that we have to allow rage to come in in a very righteous way. And I think when you allow things to break, there's a reality that y'all, when you realize this doesn't work and you're going back to play, what do children do in society? They disrupt. Not going to always be liked.

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

They are not always gonna color inside the lines. They are not going to, you can tell them what to do, they'll be like, oh that's cute, and then do the direct opposite in your face.

TK Dutes:

Yeah. So we have to find our childlike selves. There you go. Re revisit that person, or just like not even revisit, welcome them back.

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

Welcome it and bring them out. Bring them out to play.

TK Dutes:

Hey, girl, welcome. Yes.

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

And then just play. And play with it. Because the thing is you're playing with your former selves, but you are now an adult. You have all that experience. So can you trust yourself?

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

Can your older self hold your younger self? This is what we talk about when we say the, are different parts of ourselves coming together? That's actually a very indigenous understanding of the sacred and mundane in different capacities. It just got whitewashed and packaged back to us, right, in the shadow work bullshit. We have to understand that when you are taking and reclaiming parts of yourself, you are calling your energy back.

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

We talk about calling your energy back,

TK Dutes:

right? Yeah. Calling your energy back. Right.

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

Can you hold your own energy? Because do you actually know how much you have given away that you never ever got to play with to begin with?

TK Dutes:

And how do you even quantify that?

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

How do you even quantify it? Yeah. And it's overwhelming. It is so overwhelming to be able to see yourself and hold your own light. But if you've been told to give your light away your whole life, the minute you actually do occupy it, yeah, you're going to be too bright.

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

Yeah, you're going to be called arrogant. Because you're not doing what you were told to do your whole life, you know, because you provide ideas and visions. And that's the dreamscape. That's the strategy. Because children really give us templates, but we cannot give it to children to do the work of adults.

TK Dutes:

No, man, you pushing my shit back. Taking me back. So like, okay, when the childlike playfulness, when you're that, you're enjoying yourself. So this is where I'm finding, I found myself maybe, 2021, 2022, I'm playing, I'm experimenting. Now I'm starting to realize, you know, some of that other me is creeping back in and I recognize her, you know, she wants to be seen.

TK Dutes:

Right? So she wants the turkey handprint on the fridge, she wants more than mom to see that. She wants the whole world to see it. And I wanna be seen making this shit.

TK Dutes:

I want people to

TK Dutes:

know that I make this shit, that I left that other bullshit behind. Is that, I don't wanna say wrong, but is that some of the old self creeping in and is that something that I should be careful of? You know, like

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

Why not? But isn't creation supposed to be shared?

TK Dutes:

We're I could see also how easy it could creep into work, right?

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

Oh, very much so. Yes, very much so. But again, whose definition of work are you using though? We have to really understand that you have to reclaim the idea of work. Because, and this is why I talk about dreamscapes.

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

When you go to sleep and you wake up tired, but you slept that whole night and your dreams are, David, you went to work. Right? The dream space, the daydreaming space is a space of work and create, because it's creation. So we have to understand, like we were taught work as production and extraction, but that's a capitalist understanding of work. That's the colonial definition of work.

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

That's not the universal one. That is the colonial. Another type of work is allowing yourself to break. That is work. That is work.

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

Because the work of self is having you come back into the self and getting comfortable with the uncomfortability of how much you do not actually care for yourself. That's work. Like that's a lot of work. But always understand the system you are in. Capitalism knows how to consume and also it knows how to get you to consume yourself.

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

Right? So I always say this: whose stories are you telling and why? Whose lens are you using? Because this is why art is so radical. It is radical and will always be radical, especially in times of authoritarianism, because that is how other ideas get out there and people are given different templates to do it.

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

So if you are in the creative space, you have to understand you're also a disruptor. So you're going to have to disrupt some shit. So what does it mean to push back? Right? What does it mean to not be used as a tool of your oppressor, but to break the tools the oppressor is trying to make you do?

TK Dutes:

Yeah.

Kristen Bennett:

I know that we talked about this a little bit, but like, can you just for the sake of clarity, what does that look like when your heart is shown? Like, what what is that? What what is that experience having your heart shown to you?

TK Dutes:

I actually sat with it for a very long time. And now use it as an example. When I talk to people that like, you know, in these programs, I get paired up with people to do like mentor mentee work. I don't ever want people to have this feeling. So I try to get people that are paired with me to it early.

TK Dutes:

And in another way that has that come through was like, I had a mentee friend now that had gone through her own thing. But because we had talked about this stuff early, and she was just asking me good questions about like, TK, is this real? Like when they're saying this, what does that mean? Like, how do you translate in this to professional establishment corporate talk? What does this mean?

TK Dutes:

What do they want from me? Why are they treating me like this? Like, so I was able to give her the tea, the rundown and all that shit. And she made a decision. She sent me like a card and like, all these little gifts, thanks for being my mentor.

TK Dutes:

And also like, you know, how our relationship has grown. And she said, I've decided to pivot. And I'm going to do something else. I'm walking away. And like, I almost cried.

TK Dutes:

I was reading her card that told me her news. And I got so emotional because she learned it so much faster than I did. And why and I'm like, if she can walk away, why can't I and I also like wonder, like, why am I so fucking? Why am I still trying? Yeah.

TK Dutes:

Right? Because I, I think I'm still trying because I pivoted away from something I didn't want to something I did. And when you, they go, you'll, when something you want, you'll never work a day in your life. And yeah, that's a fucking lie. Yeah, absolutely.

TK Dutes:

For a different reason, right? Keeping a business afloat is is business. But keeping a business afloat that you're emotionally connected to, that is like, when they say you'll never work a day in your life, that's the lie, you'll be more abused. So when she like made this pivot, oh man, I didn't know I was gonna be so effective. I didn't even realize someone else's news would have me so fucked up in a good way.

TK Dutes:

Like I cried for her realizing. She was like, these people, they treated me like this, that, and the third, and I said, I'm out of here. And I was like

Kristen Bennett:

But she was able to do that because she fully benefited from your experiences.

TK Dutes:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That and that's what that was. And that's like the model now I'm taking, like, it's just like, I just noticed myself in repeated having these conversations and trying to get people there faster.

TK Dutes:

And she pivoted she pivoted back, but in her under her own terms right now. Because she was like, you know what? I have this other skill. I need to make a little money. Now she's using it as a tool.

TK Dutes:

When now she done told me about her greater idea beyond her original pivot. She's like, I wanna write a book, TK, and I'm doing it. I just need to make a little scratch, so I'm pivoting back. Let me know if you know anything.

Kristen Bennett:

But you're a part of that. You're a part of that journey because she didn't have to do this thing that we did where you spin your wheels.

TK Dutes:

Yeah. And that's where I've been getting my joy. At least there's these people. Right? At least there's Trace, you know, at least there's you wrote a book.

TK Dutes:

I wrote a book with you, nigga, right? Even one sentence, if a little bit of me made it into this process, fuck it. I gotta be cool with that. Like, I I think about this is gonna sound morbid. I think about, like, when I die a lot.

TK Dutes:

Yeah. And if I don't like make it to this magical success place, like, if I don't make it to a place where like, like the only piece of me is this thing that we're doing right now. And like, you know, like there's not, I'm not gonna be on no magazines or, you know, like, I'm not gonna have a thing that's like TK, blah, blah, blah. So if it's like, this girl wrote a book and this person is a upper echelon nigga at a company, but we had like a really good talk that motivated you. Or this person said, TK, I thought about you when I was giving my rate and I I added 30% more because this is gonna suck.

TK Dutes:

Like, I I go, at least there's that. Right? And at least they can go, okay, so I made my rate this. And I was motivated to put it up higher because this crazy lady said that I should, and now I'm making 6 figures. Right?

TK Dutes:

Because I gotta be happy that you're winning. So if you become a six figure nigga and I'm still a five figure nigga, I don't at at this point, I gotta be cool with your wins because at least other people can get something about out of this experience that I'm having, you know? So I gotta be cool with that. Like we had our radio station and so many people have gone further than us making this radio station, which was another experience. I gotta be happy with that.

TK Dutes:

Motherfuckers have gone far and I'm just like, man, we was an incubator for niggas that was trying ideas and to see the idea become a thing. So, so part of it, it hurts because like my ideas don't become things. Yeah. Because you're holding space for other people. So if I don't have my thing and I don't have money, what do I fucking have?

TK Dutes:

I gotta live through you. I have to be happy with that. I tell Trey to go on vacation because I I'm like, if that's what you have capacity for, nigga, like, I need to know that you're having the best time of your life. Go outside. I have to live through the minutes, you know?

TK Dutes:

I don't have kids. I have minutes. Yeah. Oh, sorry.

Kristen Bennett:

No, that's okay. What I'm hearing is, like, the difference between the difference between your impact versus, like, your legacy.

TK Dutes:

Yeah.

Kristen Bennett:

Right? The impact that you have on other people is is extremely tough to quantify because sometimes you don't even know it. Sometimes they don't recognize it.

TK Dutes:

Yeah.

Kristen Bennett:

But, like, the evidence of it is out there. Right. Right? Versus this thing that feels tangible. Right?

Kristen Bennett:

They point at, like, point at the thing and go, like, well, actually, that's the thing that I have that represents my legacy. Yeah. And when that's taken from you Yeah. Right? When, like, you get set up to maybe, okay.

Kristen Bennett:

I might have a chance to do this. And then it crumbles because it's built on a bunch of lies. Yeah. It's built on people not trusting you. It's built on all the other bullshit that comes with, like, the industry stuff.

Kristen Bennett:

Yeah. It's gonna it hurts.

TK Dutes:

It fucking hurts, bro. So it's like, like, now what? You know? Like, now what? Right?

TK Dutes:

Like, what do how do I fucking reconfigure this shit? Like, so that I could it also hurts knowing that you could be so much more with a certain level of support.

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

This is what we can actually learn from enslaved peoples. Right? They enslaved the plantation. They did not work all the time like that. They broke shit.

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

You know what I'm saying? Like, we have to stop giving up our power to these spaces and thinking it is one directional.

TK Dutes:

And you know what, doc? As you talk, and I'm processing in real time and

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

Oh, no. It's okay. Yeah.

TK Dutes:

Yeah. You

TK Dutes:

like you got me. I'm like, I'm thinking I'm like, even talking to you, like, I've talked to you. I've talked to so many, like, lovely different human beings, and I'm creating this thing that we're doing this podcast of mine in between work, right? Like, I'm making this, I'm scared to death because the messaging keeps creeping in. Right?

TK Dutes:

So in my mind, I'm like, well, what if I don't have the perfect story arc? Well, I gotta wait for someone like you to talk to me to like make it legit. Like, I'm thinking in the ways that I've been indoctrinated into this profession, that I would not have hesitated. I would not have ten years, fifteen years ago when I was a baby audio person, I would not have hesitated. I would have been like doc, listen, we're talk.

TK Dutes:

I'm put this out next week And it's done. It's whatever, no big deal. Now I'm like, it's a year later, and I have interviews from last year. I'm scared to death of, I think, putting it out there the right way or the wrong way, even though this is a personal endeavor, right? So, like, the art is a personal endeavor.

TK Dutes:

I wanna be seen, but I don't wanna be perceived. Like, I just feel very stuck in these two worlds And I'm talking to you as a exercise in unlearning. And in this unlearning, low key, I'm realizing like how much work I have to do still.

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

But I think I want to say a couple of things, right? One thing is this idea of right and wrong, I want you to really ask yourself, what does that mean? Who taught you those definitions and are they true? And are the people who taught you those definitions, do they live up to them to begin with? It's the foundation that you're trying to crack and bulldoze to make a new foundation for yourself.

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

Because what I'm hearing is there's a fear of the unknown. Of course it is. You don't know some shit. But this is where we're coming into a conversation with understanding of time to the colonial project. Because there is this idea that we are taught that if you do not know ahead of time, then you cannot do it.

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

If it is not going to be quote unquote successful, then there is no ability to put it out there. While at the same time we're told that innovation is the benchmark of a progressive society. So you are realizing that the fear you are feeling is the indication that you are trying something new. So how committed to you are you to your new beginning? Ask yourself, what does it mean to do with scared?

TK Dutes:

One of my goals for 2025 is to like, be more explicit about what I want, right? I don't think there's anyone that's mistaken about what TK wants. Right? But people act like they can't hear me, though. So I'm just gonna keep going around and being like, I want this is a how I want to work.

TK Dutes:

This is what I want to do. I want to be at the forefront, not inside the fucking mechanism. I want to like you say, oh, I got an idea for a show. TK would be perfect not to produce it, but to be the fucking the thing. And I know, I don't know.

TK Dutes:

I feel like someone's gonna hear this and be, oh, well, you have to build it yourself. I did. Yeah. Did that actually. I did.

TK Dutes:

So like, don't I don't know why I come up on here act like I ain't try.

Kristen Bennett:

Don't Yeah. I think this is this is part of the issue, though, because especially I think black women, we are so deeply invested in the like. If I do these things, right, like, if you told me you validated the the work that I do is good, but that's not the same thing as the recognition. It's not the same thing as the success. And we keep trying to conflate those two things because we still we can't let go of the, well, if I just work a little bit harder Yeah.

Kristen Bennett:

Then that's all it's gonna take.

Kristen Bennett:

And it's like,

Kristen Bennett:

actually, we know that's not true because we see all what you pull out here doing half the work that we're doing. We're bootstrapping life. Right. And so, like but on the other hand, it's like, okay. But what else can you do but work hard?

Kristen Bennett:

It's the

TK Dutes:

twice as hard work. We have to work twice as hard to get half the things. I have become so acutely aware that I'm living that, that it has like collapsed my brain. And then to be conditioned as we are to accept it, because they say, well, you got to you got to do the best and you got to be the best to get the half as much and I'm like, I don't accept half much anymore guys. Yeah.

TK Dutes:

I don't accept half as much and I'm gonna tell you that this rate is too low that you cheated me. If you cheat me and I can't sue you, I'm gonna talk about it at least. I'm gonna fucking do a panel. You know? Like, someone's gonna know.

TK Dutes:

And then all the implications of that. Right? Like, who's watching me? There are people probably watching me, watching you and going like, oh, she's she went on that panel. She talked about how that company ain't paid her.

TK Dutes:

Yeah. But what you don't know is that these motherfuckers didn't pay me for eleven months. I should be I should be setting people's cars on fire. Yes. Yes.

TK Dutes:

The fact that I did not set a nigga's car on fire. To to this day, I think about that situation, and I almost feel bad at how well I handle it, at how fucking graceful I handled it because I knew that popping off wouldn't get me nowhere, but I deserve to pop off. And that was taken from me for the little bit that I allowed myself to show. Right? For that little bit, I fucking I am so paranoid, Kristen.

TK Dutes:

I'm so scared that someone still saw that and said she's difficult. And I feel so betrayed to myself that I was so well behaved. And I know that well behavior is still is seen as bad. So I don't try because I think that people are looking at me like, yeah, this bitch is gonna tell on us if we don't, you know, and I'm like, you need to be told on.

Kristen Bennett:

Yes. Unless you can point out the lie.

TK Dutes:

But these companies, these people, these establishments, these celebrities, these higher earners, these whatever are so protected, so protected that we can't even have our feelings. And that made me so mad. And the way that we have to be so well behaved in our fucking pain is what is part of the simulation that's crashing. Because now I see it, and I can't unsee it, nigga. And realizing that I was seeing it the whole time and I just kept trying to iterate and walk around the problem and the the cone in the street, but, like, I'm gonna end up in the pothole anyway.

TK Dutes:

This is what has culminated to here. I'm trying to find a different way to live nigga.

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

What does it look like to put you first? What does it look like to center you? Right? That's the we love the theory. Center the margins.

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

That's cute. You're the damn margin. Center you. Center the self. Not the individual you were told to be.

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

This is part of what I call the breaking of identity as we know it. Right? We have to break the identities put upon us and how we have been told to perform them, because that is what keeps us in these loops. That's what's keeping you give your creativity up to institutions, but then sitting on your own creativity, even though it was you already proven to yourself that you can do it because you've already collected the interviews. Right.

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

You see what I'm saying? Like sometimes it's and it's not a no judgment. It's just oh, it's a process.

TK Dutes:

It's a process. And I think I wanna give thank you for saying that because it it's encouraging me to give grace to myself and this process because, like

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

You have to.

TK Dutes:

I'm do I am doing I'm doing the interview. So there's something in there that's like, TK, keep going. And then something in here is gonna go, TK, now go. Like, put it up.

TK Dutes:

So there's that. Anyway, does that feel good? Is it all I was just saying that I do too much? Is

Kristen Bennett:

no. This is actually great.

TK Dutes:

Shit. I'm like this cut this off. You just go ahead. This is it.

TK Dutes:

I'm choosing to believe doctor Rawls when she said we have to break these identities put on us in order to build our own. This right here is my process of building my own. I'm believing that someone wants to pay me for my skills. I'm believing I can find good people that want to work with me. And I'm believing there's room for me here that I can take up space, be myself and do it in a healthy way.

TK Dutes:

That's what it looks like to take control of our destinies, right? And in the meantime, I'm gonna control what I can control. I'm gonna go outside because I can control the purchase of a plane ticket, a train ticket, a bus ticket. I can control that. I can control the joy of taking a workshop, trying something new.

TK Dutes:

I can control that. I make my art. I can control that. And when I make ugly shit, that means I'm really fucking pissed. And when I make something I really enjoy, that means I'm having a great day.

TK Dutes:

Because I'm not having to hide any part of myself. I'm leaving behind the part that comes in and says, I have to say it this way and I have to do it this way and I have to make it so that this other person can process it. That, that's deactivating. I'm just doing me and I want to keep doing that. What doctor Rawls is suggesting is simple.

TK Dutes:

Just be yourself. Is it really that simple? That's that's me talking to you and giving you your flowers, but I would love to for you to hear I would love to hear from you, you know, yourself.

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

Oh, just about who I am and how Yeah. I Okay. So

TK Dutes:

How'd you get here? How'd you get here?

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

How'd you get here? I had to die, I guess. Honestly.

TK Dutes:

So I'm gonna get reborn.

TK Dutes:

So I guess I'm going back to the beginning. So when you couldn't tell little TK nothing. She was determined. She was fearless. She was hopeful.

TK Dutes:

This moment is from 2016, and it's the eve of my birthday retirement party. I exited nursing, and I entered the full time world of audio production. Yeah. Reco come on. Record this. Stand by.

TK Dutes:

Stand by.

TK Dutes:

By. Hold up. We're coming back.

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

We're just bringing that back around.

TK Dutes:

Wrap them up.

TK Dutes:

Nah. So, like, I'm super excited about whatever this next phase is. I'm officially retired. Super king said, what does that mean? That means dead day job army.

TK Dutes:

Alright. I've been doing nursing for seventeen years since I graduated high school. Dead ass. When you love what you do and you know already what you wanna do, just go ahead and do that shit. Yeah.

TK Dutes:

Amen. Don't let people scare you. Don't let people instill fear in you. Let me be a lesson that like, yo, you don't have to go through this power like this parallel life or these fucking topsy turvies and shit. Just go do what you wanna do.

TK Dutes:

Stop instilling fear in whatever next generation that's coming. Right? That's what happened to me. I'm glad I figured out another way. Right?

TK Dutes:

Because it made me become a personal, a person that just was like, fuck it. I'm gonna manifest this. Right? We'll manifest this radio station with these amazing people that help and listen and do things. I think about it.

TK Dutes:

If I didn't go the regular way, would I be this person today? No. You know what I'm saying? I don't I don't know. I don't think so.

TK Dutes:

I just wanna thank you all for, know, hanging in with me. We're gonna make shit. We're gonna fucking put it in the world. And guess what? We did that.

TK Dutes:

Right? If they book tasty keys, they book bonfire radio. I love you. I thank you. We love you too.

TK Dutes:

Love Fucking donate to bonfire radio. Love you. Bonfire radio. I'm grown now and I've learned some things. Despite all the ways the world tried to knock me down and count me out, to kill my spirit, I still came out stronger, bolder and I'm ready to meet Lil TK again.

TK Dutes:

Let's run it back. Alright. Now that I've cried all over the place, before we wrap, I need you to hear from the producer of this episode, Kristen, an award winning podcast producer, writer, and host, because this story doesn't just belong to me.

Kristen Bennett:

We can just need more need more streaming power. Oh, okay.

TK Dutes:

Sorry. They trying to sell us something.

Dr. Nicole Rawls:

Yeah. Oh, snap.

Kristen Bennett:

But yeah, yeah, I feel like I go on LinkedIn and it's once a week.

TK Dutes:

Yeah.

Kristen Bennett:

See, at minimum, is some professional black lady trying her best to have a professional crash out. Yeah. You know?

TK Dutes:

I'm like, we don't have to keep it cute anymore because they don't deserve cute. They don't deserve Before we get into that, I just wanna tell the people, welcome to after the show. I think I did too much there. What?

Kristen Bennett:

No. That's fine. I I'm never gonna tell you that you did too much if you're like, you know, gassing me up.

TK Dutes:

Yeah. Shit. Well, well, the voice y'all hear right there, that's Kristen Bennett, y'all, the producer of this episode. And, you know we're gonna kick it and talk about how, what, where and all the things about this show. So welcome Kristen and before you start, I want to give you your flowers.

TK Dutes:

You're an OG. You are an OG, you got pedigree, you've been places, you work places, you come from different through theater, through education, now podcasting, Max Fun, which is like, you know, the people like, people think that's a big deal. I think that's a big deal too. Like, we work together on different projects. You are a multi Webby Award winning podcaster, and now working on this project, The Secret Life of TK.

TK Dutes:

Hi.

Kristen Bennett:

Oh, thank you. I've never been introduced, like, with all of, here are your here's your resume, here's a couple of accolades. That was nice. I get used

Kristen Bennett:

Yeah. To

TK Dutes:

No, I get used to that because this is honestly, I'm mad that you're not. But maybe this is why we're talking.

Kristen Bennett:

Maybe so.

TK Dutes:

Maybe it's why we're talking. So I just wanted to get your thoughts. Like, did this episode. We worked together for I feel like we worked together on this, yes, officially since January. That's when I asked, like, the first four of y'all to produce.

TK Dutes:

But I think you've been hearing about it from me for longer than that. What made you want to just like say yes, say yes to the dress?

Kristen Bennett:

Well, I think, you know, I really enjoy working with you when we work together at that company that we not gonna name. And I feel like even then when all of that shit was going down, me, you, and another producer on this show who also worked with us, we started talking. Mean, you were processing in real time. And you were like, yeah, and what if I do this? And what if I go here?

Kristen Bennett:

And we were almost not even really knowing, we were supporting you as friends. But I think at that moment, really, we were helping you iterate. We were helping you figure out how you wanted to start processing all of this shit. And so when you came to me officially and asked me, hey, I want you to produce an episode. Is that something you would be interested in?

Kristen Bennett:

To me, already felt like, yeah, I'm bought in because we were having these discussions already and we were already talking about what's the best way for you process what happened to you and what happens to all of us and what happens to many of us. The huge effect that can have on not just the obvious stuff like your livelihood. It's going to have an effect on your bills. It's going to have an effect on what you can do, but what it does to you as a creative person working in a creative field who It's not like you're No shade to accountants, but you're not an accountant. You're not going in and plugging a thing, plugging in a formula and going boop, boop, boop, boop, boop.

Kristen Bennett:

And then you close your laptop and you go home and you have your life. When you're creative and you're a creative professional, so much of what you're working on, even if you're working for a client or for a large corporation, you're putting your own self into. Your perspective, your point of view, all of these are things that are required of you to do your job and to do it well. And so when all that shit falls apart, it's not just your livelihood that takes a hit like your person does as well, too. Your psyche does.

TK Dutes:

Did you at any point and I feel like I know the answer, but I think I would like maybe for you to expand on this. Like, did you feel like this was a project that was speaking to you? Like, was the tape talking to you?

TK Dutes:

I know.

TK Dutes:

Girl, let's go there.

Kristen Bennett:

Yeah. Short answer, yes. It was. I remember when you messaged me and you were like, I think it was on Instagram and you were like, you have to just watch the TikTok. You have to watch this TikTok.

Kristen Bennett:

This is exactly it. And so I watched it and I don't know, what, thirty seconds in, she had fully fucking just blow my shit back. I was like, Oh my God, this is it. This is literally this. And completely understood why you had such a strong reaction to it.

Kristen Bennett:

So yeah, a lot of it, I don't know, all of it really deeply resonated with me. Not just from my experience working in podcasting, obviously, but like, yeah, I worked in education for like fifteen years before I made the career switch to podcasting. There was a lot of that in education too. And that's also where Doctor. Ross comes from.

TK Dutes:

So I remember there was a there was a moment and I think like this speaks to like how like open are all of our production styles are like, girl, yeah, we're just going to get it done and don't worry. Because you were like, girl, I need a minute. I can't fuck with this right now.

Kristen Bennett:

No, that's totally true. And like, I will fully cop to that. Like, I struggled from two perspectives. We both know I am neurodivergent, I have ADHD. So that's a whole separate struggle.

Kristen Bennett:

But because of what was going on in my life, because of my previous experiences, was tough to immerse myself in, this was an experience that was doing the work, but I was also doing the work. I was doing the work emotionally and then I was doing the work of being a podcast producer, which kind of goes back to the whole central point of how when you are working on as your creative professional, your life comes into it and who you are comes into it. And I did. I really struggled to think about how I wanted to help you put the story together. I really struggled re listening to not only your conversation with Doctor.

Kristen Bennett:

Rawls and like listening to you process stuff, but also our conversation after that.

TK Dutes:

That was a tough day.

Kristen Bennett:

It was.

TK Dutes:

I mean, it was beautiful though. Don't think there's anyone I could have had that three hours. Three hours.

Kristen Bennett:

It was. But you know what though? It felt necessary. Obviously that was like, I'm gonna use this to help me write production wise. Just to kind of, once we got into the conversation, it felt like, oh yeah, of course we're here for three hours because we needed to process this stuff.

Kristen Bennett:

And there's so much here to process. So I struggled with making myself reenter that space emotionally and mentally every time I sat down with the tape again, every time I thought about how I wanted to tell your story. And then the other side of that is you and I are friends. And this is what we do professionally. And so I really struggled with feeling like I was letting you down because it was I remember going to a networking event here in LA back in March and talking about how I was having a hard time moving forward then because it was low key kind of triggering.

Kristen Bennett:

And that I struggle with the fact that you are my friend and I had agreed to do this thing for you. And I felt like I was letting you down because it felt like I was dragging my feet and I would try. It's not like I was procrastinating. Do you know I mean? It's like that thing where you I have all the things that I need and I'm sitting down in front of the screen and I have a game plan.

Kristen Bennett:

I told y'all exactly what I thought I wanted to do with this story.

TK Dutes:

Yeah. No, you were very clear early. And I think that and I want to officially, on the record, just be like, the way it turned out is the way it was supposed to turn out. Because I think the lux luxury, air quotes, that we all had was that this is an independent project, and we are not beholden to anyone but ourselves. And, like, in my mind, right, like, there's always the the what what's my optimal date for a thing to happen?

TK Dutes:

And then what's this what's the date that it really happens? So, like, I was just like, whatever. Like, whatever. You know what I'm saying? And I also I had the feeling that this was not something you were taking lightly.

TK Dutes:

You know? Because something like, you could feel when people are bullshitting you. Yeah. You know? So like, there wasn't that.

TK Dutes:

So I'm just like, fam, I had to live it and then talk to you about it and then talk to like seven more niggas about it. Close the laptop. If you want if you need a month to close the laptop, close the laptop. I'll see you later. And then I just was like, if it's meant to be, it's meant to be.

TK Dutes:

Yeah. You know?

Kristen Bennett:

And you know, that's something you're right. We did have the But it felt like grace, which I really appreciated because it did really resonate with me. And it was even with the other project that you and I were working on with work work or whatever, that was a separate thing. But this was something that I felt a lot of responsibility in making sure that I was telling the story in a way that was like honest to what you actually experienced.

TK Dutes:

And

Kristen Bennett:

I think I kept telling you the whole time I was like, I like all of the specificity that's in here and you getting in because you'd be like, should I talk about this thing? Could we include that? And I was like, the thing is, is that the more specific you get about your experience, the more people are going the specific is universal. People are going to hear themselves and hear their own experiences and hear a way out by you telling your story. And I was speaking for myself as well, not just people.

Kristen Bennett:

Yeah, unexpectedly, felt like I had to take a journey within the storytelling of this to tell your story, which I don't want that to it feels weird because it feels almost like I'm trying to like I'm co opting what happened. But it's not. It's that this happens to a lot of people. The details might look a little different, but

TK Dutes:

Yeah.

Kristen Bennett:

the story...

TK Dutes:

Well, that's what I'm realizing, fam. And you know what? Hold that thought. We're going deep. Let's pause right here.

TK Dutes:

Move this conversation over to the Patreon. For the rest of y'all that want to hear the rest of this conversation, follow us or I don't know fam. Drop some dollars. Let's just be real. Drop some dollars at patreon.com/secretlifeoftk and then we'll see you over there.

TK Dutes:

For more of our conversation, join the

TK Dutes:

Patreon. Patreon.com, secretlifeoftk, and find KB at kristin bennett with 2t's

TK Dutes:

dot com.

TK Dutes:

Thank you to Doctor. Nicole Rawls, formerly known as Doctor. Truesdell for her energy, her spirit, her fire. You can connect with her at drnicolerawls.com. This episode was executive produced and hosted by me, Keisha TK Dutest.

TK Dutes:

Written, produced, and sound designed by the award winning Kristen Bennett. Additional audio support and engineering from another heavy hitter, my brother from another, Manny faces. Thank you to my most righteous dude bro, Pat Mesiti- Miller for providing our intro and outro theme. Marketing support is by FM Digital's, Faybeon Mickens, aka one of my top five, and she should be yours, Liquid. Show art and episode art by my fellow first gen sis, Gabrielle Smith.

TK Dutes:

I need you to look closely at the work. It is fire. And if you would like to go behind the scenes of my secret life, join my Patreon for special BTS episodes and moments for paid members. Patreon.com/secretlifeof TK.