Episode 18: The Trusted Authority Triangle — JJ Virgin on Building a Brand in Functional Medicine

Dr. Erik Lundquist and Dr. Davin Lundquist sit down with JJ Virgin for a candid playbook on what it actually takes to build a brand, marketing engine, and scalable practice in integrative and functional medicine. JJ walks through her Trusted Authority Triangle — Trust (built through vulnerability and showing humanity), Authority (built through absolutes and contrarian beliefs you'll defend, not credentials alone), and Proof (the patient transformation stories no one can copy) — with YOU at the center, because the best part of building a business is who you become in the process.

She reframes imposter syndrome as evidence you're stepping into a bigger game, makes the case that "people seek experts, not generalists," and offers concrete tactics: a signature talk that doubles as lead-magnet content for YouTube, podcast, and social; capturing email lists everywhere you speak (since 50% of prospects buy within 18 months — but only 3% buy now); collaborating with 5–10 aligned partners who share your patient avatar; and optimizing for both SEO and AEO (AI-engine optimization) so AI assistants surface you to the patients you're meant to serve.

The conversation closes on the bigger shift — moving from transactional fee-for-service to transformational programs, why AI is actually creating more demand for trusted human authorities, and JJ's mantra: "You shouldn't have to sacrifice your life to save others."

For practitioners ready to stop trading time for money and build a sustainable, mission-aligned practice.

Creators and Guests

Host

Dr. Davin Lundquist

Dr. Davin Lundquist is a board-certified family physician, innovator, and healthcare leader with over 25 years of experience integrating medicine, technology, and holistic wellness. A graduate of the Keck School of Medicine of USC, he has held senior leadership roles at CommonSpirit Health, Dignity Health, and Augmedix, where he advanced the use of technology to enhance patient care. Driven by a passion to move beyond symptom management, Dr. Lundquist founded the Quantum Advantage Method™, a science-based, holistic framework designed to help individuals restore vitality and reverse dysfunction. His approach blends functional medicine, advanced diagnostics, and principles of quantum science to empower patients to achieve optimal health and lasting transformation.

Host

Dr. Erik Lundquist

Dr. Erik Lundquist, MD, ABFM, ABoIM, IFMCP Dr. Erik Lundquist is the founder and medical director of the Temecula Center for Integrative Medicine, where he blends conventional, holistic, and functional approaches to help patients achieve lasting wellness. Board-certified in Family and Integrative Medicine, he specializes in endocrine disorders, chronic fatigue, migraine management, cardiometabolic health, and chronic pain. A graduate of St. Louis University School of Medicine, Dr. Lundquist completed his Family Medicine residency at Naval Hospital Camp Pendleton, where he served as chief resident. He spent eight years on active duty with the U.S. Navy, including service as a battalion surgeon in Iraq and at the Naval Hospital in Naples, Italy. Certified by the Institute for Functional Medicine, Dr. Lundquist is passionate about empowering patients to take charge of their health and teaching fellow clinicians integrative approaches to chronic disease. Outside of medicine, he enjoys the outdoors, singing, dancing, acting, and spending time with his wife and three children.

Guest

JJ Virgin, CNS, BCHN, EP-C

JJ Virgin is a triple-board-certified nutrition expert (CNS, BCHN, EP-C) and Fitness Hall of Famer on a mission to redefine aging as "a stage of life to own with strength, vitality, and purpose." A 4× New York Times bestselling author, she's known for innovative concepts like Metabolism Changes Everything and the shift from "aging gracefully" to "aging powerfully." Her muscle-first approach challenges conventional weight-loss models, empowering individuals to build strength and take control of their metabolic destiny. Her popular podcast, Well Beyond 40, has surpassed 22 million downloads. As Chief Metabolic Health Officer for Lindora and Nutrition & Fitness Speaker for Tony Robbins, JJ serves health leaders and individuals seeking to enhance performance and longevity. She founded the Health Business Growth Collective (formerly Mindshare) — an influential community that has launched more New York Times bestsellers, PBS specials, and seven-figure brands than any comparable group. A serial entrepreneur with two multimillion-dollar businesses and a 3× Inc. 5000 founder, she combines nutrition, fitness, mindset, and business strategy to empower others to show up stronger, live longer, and lead a new era of health and high performance.

What is The Root Cause - Business of Medicine Podcast?

The U.S. healthcare system is at a breaking point—soaring costs, worsening outcomes, and widespread physician burnout. The Root Cause – Business of Medicine podcast, hosted by brothers Dr. Erik Lundquist and Dr. Davin Lundquist, charts a different path: one where healing, fulfillment, and business thrive together.

Each episode shares powerful stories of medical professionals who stepped away from the traditional grind to embrace integrative, functional, and alternative approaches to care. Through candid conversations with practitioners who have redefined success, listeners gain insight into navigating their own transitions, reclaiming a sense of purpose, and reshaping the way they practice medicine.

Erik: Well, we're super excited about today's guests.

Erik: She was sensational.

Erik: JJ Virgin is one of the most recognized brands in all of functional medicine.

Erik: And today you will learn about how to brand yourself, how to market yourself, and how to become a trust trusted authority in integrative and functional medicine.

Erik: Gavin, what were some of the key

Erik: Points that you got takeaways from today?

Davin: I think one of my favorite concepts was how she was saying that we're all entrepreneurs.

Davin: You know, whether we think we are or not, we need to be, right?

Davin: Because

Davin: In reality, um, if we're going to be successful, we have to have that mindset of being, you know, creative leaders

Davin: i in our space.

Erik: I love that.

Erik: And you have talked about this before of how you transformed in just who you've become.

Erik: shifting from a conventional medicine into a integrative and functional medicine practice, I think that was one of the key takeaways from me is that there that when you start to build your business

Erik: you become the expert.

Erik: You don't have to worry about imposter syndrome.

Erik: So look forward to having you guys listen to our podcast today.

Erik: Welcome to the Root Cause Business of Medicine podcast, where we explore what's broken in healthcare and what we can do about it.

Erik: I'm Dr.

Erik: Erik Lundquist and I've been practicing functional medicine for the past 15 to 20 years.

Erik: I'm excited to co-host this podcast with my brother, Dr.

Davin: Davin Lundquist, who's just beginning his journey into functional medicine.

Davin: We come from different points on the path, but we do share a common goal.

Davin: We want to rethink how

Davin: Medicine is practiced and helped others do the same.

Erik: The US healthcare system is in crisis, rising costs, declining outcomes, and physician burnout at an

Erik: All-time high.

Erik: But you know, we found a different way.

Erik: Another way.

Erik: A better way.

Davin: On this podcast, we dive into real stories from medical professionals who've stepped away from the traditional model.

Davin: Kinda like me

Davin: And have found a new purpose in integrative, functional, and alternative approaches to care.

Erik: These are authentic conversations with practitioners and friends who redefine success not just for themselves.

Erik: but for their patients and communities.

Erik: Whether you're a clinician feeling stuck, a student seeking direction, or just curious about what is possible,

Erik: You're in the right place.

Erik: This is the Root Cause Business of Medicine Podcast.

Erik: Well, welcome back to the Root Cause Business of Medicine podcast.

Erik: And I'm Erik Lundquist and I'm here with my co-host, Davin Lundquist.

Erik: And today's

Erik: conversation sits right at the intersection of everything we care about on this show.

Erik: Clinical impact, scalability, and what it really takes to build a sustainable model of medicine outside the traditional system.

Erik: So because those of you and those of us who have spent time in healthcare have identified this problem of how do we deliver deep root cause medicine without getting trapped in a model that limits

Erik: our reach, our time, and our impact, and then try and make money doing that.

Erik: We've brought on a special guest today to help us solve that problem.

Erik: Today we're joined by JJ Virgin, a nationally recognized nutrition expert, a New York Times best-selling author, and a true pioneer in building and scaling businesses in the functional medicine and health space

Erik: JJ has done what many of us are trying to figure out and what we're trying to help our platform discover more, and that is to take deep clinical expertise and translate that into a brand

Erik: A platform and multiple successful businesses that extend far beyond the traditional one-on-one model

Erik: But her journey wasn't just about business.

Erik: It was shaped by real life challenges.

Erik: And JJ, I'll be interested to hear your thoughts on how this really shaped your

Erik: your career and your path, but uh you know, your son's life-threatening trauma really helped to redefine your focus and your mission.

Erik: So in today's episode, we're going to dive into what it actually looks like.

Erik: Move beyond the limitations of traditional care model.

Erik: Build trust and authority at scale.

Erik: Create multiple revenue streams without compromising integrity and ultimately design a business that allows you to have a bigger impact while staying aligned with why you got into medicine in the first place.

Erik: So with no further ado, JJ, welcome to our podcast.

Erik: We're excited to have you.

JJ Virgin: I love what you're doing.

JJ Virgin: I'm thrilled to be here

Erik: Well, thank you very much.

Erik: So maybe give us a little background for those few people who don't know you or and know I certainly, you know, I know who

Erik: who you are and what you the great impact you've had, but I maybe don't know your story from how you've got from being a clinical nutrition specialist in functional medicine into

Erik: The point where now you're mentoring thousands and thousands of practitioners to help them create a sustainable business model that allows them to not only have a quality of life practice

Erik: but have revenue to help maintain that quality of life.

JJ Virgin: Well, it was all by accident, to be honest.

JJ Virgin: As everything is um

JJ Virgin: You know, I feel very fortunate in that I've always been interested in nutrition and fitness and then I got turned on to like health and functional medicine and hormones, but I've always been interested in this like

JJ Virgin: In high school I taught calisthenics.

JJ Virgin: In um at UCLA, I started teaching aerobics and then

JJ Virgin: Someone asked me to come to their house.

JJ Virgin: I started personal training, and that's when I went off to grad school and exercise science.

JJ Virgin: But the great thing about all that was I couldn't take insurance.

JJ Virgin: There was a couple very important things.

JJ Virgin: I couldn't take insurance and I had no model to follow.

JJ Virgin: Uh when I first started personal training, there were

JJ Virgin: three of us that but as far as I can tell, it was me and Mark Sisson and Tony Horton, maybe uh maybe four, maybe um body by Jake, but there was no n nothing to follow and there was no way to promote.

JJ Virgin: And

JJ Virgin: There, you know, there was no book people were gonna read and come find me.

JJ Virgin: So I had to figure out how to market myself and I had to figure out how to create a

JJ Virgin: A program that wasn't me trapped trading time for money.

JJ Virgin: I was stuck in that very very fast and got out of that as quickly as possible

JJ Virgin: And my whole first driving purpose, you know, we all have like, what's the purpose?

JJ Virgin: The first purpose in college was to never have to go have a desk job and wear a suit.

JJ Virgin: And to never have to ask my parents for money.

JJ Virgin: Those were the two, right?

JJ Virgin: And you know, and I paid my way through graduate school and doctoral school.

JJ Virgin: But what I discovered very quickly was that I maxed out fast

JJ Virgin: with how much money I could make.

JJ Virgin: And, you know, you can just keep raising your race, but at some point it's ridiculous.

JJ Virgin: And so the first thing I started to do was hire other people

JJ Virgin: and package into programs because I also learned that if you had people pay as they go, especially if you're in nutrition and fitness, you know, and someone's going to come see you on a Saturday morning, Friday night you get the phone call, right?

JJ Virgin: You know, I'm sick.

JJ Virgin: I'm sure you're sick.

JJ Virgin: So I learned to package into programs, add other things into it so that I could take the focus off my price, give them

JJ Virgin: s you know, seldom results in advance.

JJ Virgin: And it's something that really matters in in what you all are doing because the reality is it's a really interesting time for medicine.

JJ Virgin: You have a

JJ Virgin: system that was set up to manage disease in very short time increments and to give basic foundational care.

JJ Virgin: And then you have people who've gone through this program and now they've realized this

JJ Virgin: different way, I'm gonna say it's a better way, of integrative and functional medicine that is optimizing someone's health, you can't do that in a short visit.

JJ Virgin: And you can't do it one time.

JJ Virgin: There's no drive by healing.

JJ Virgin: It takes time.

JJ Virgin: So you have to have a new method to

JJ Virgin: deliver that in because the old delivery system won't work.

JJ Virgin: All it will do is frustrate both the patient and the practitioner, right?

Erik: Yeah, no, I I totally agree.

Erik: And I have to ask you.

Erik: Uh, because we had a professor at Occidental College who may have been in in the at UCLA at the same time you were.

Erik: Do you know uh Erik Sternlick by chance?

JJ Virgin: No, but you know, there's a lot of people at UCLA.

Erik: Yeah, no, there is.

Erik: He he was an exercise physiology and he came over to

JJ Virgin: Um Occidental College and he well I was a theater so I went to UCLA on a theater side.

JJ Virgin: Oh really?

JJ Virgin: And uh quickly realized my first year that that was a really stupid major to have

JJ Virgin: Um, uh it the big joke at UCLA at the time was that we were all gonna become waitresses.

JJ Virgin: There was a restaurant i in Westwood called Ships where they had toasters on the tables and that's where we were all gonna go to work after UCLA and I thought, yeah, that's not what I'm gonna do.

JJ Virgin: The funniest thing is, you know, I paid my way through UCLA catering, even catered to 84 Olympics and teaching

JJ Virgin: aerobics and then personal training and became an English major.

JJ Virgin: And you look at these things and go, what was all of that?

JJ Virgin: The theater major, the English, the catering.

JJ Virgin: But, you know, then I started with all of the developing recipes and

JJ Virgin: I ended up writing books.

JJ Virgin: So everything works, but a lot of there's a lot of RD that goes in with no clear path a lot of the times.

Erik: Well, and I'm sure those things help prepare you, right?

Erik: I mean, y your theater background makes you a perfect fit on stage, right?

Erik: You being able to tell your story, to communicate your message in a way that is

Erik: not just relevant, but entertaining, right?

Erik: I mean people don't want to watch boring stuff, right?

Erik: So that background I'm sure has helped you be successful in front of a camera or on stage.

Erik: And so that's really, really awesome.

JJ Virgin: I actually think that's something that's an important point to make for all of us.

JJ Virgin: Um and let's just call it out.

JJ Virgin: No more death by PowerPoint, everybody, and standing behind the podium.

JJ Virgin: I used to always laugh at that, you know, I speak at a lot of medical conferences and the bar is low, but it can't be low anymore because the reality is that we are in a trust recession.

JJ Virgin: And that means that people are going to go look at social media to see 82% of the people apparently go to social media to see if the provider, the practitioner is actually real.

JJ Virgin: And so now you have to show up differently.

JJ Virgin: Again, they aren't looking at an insurance booklet and just going to a doctor.

JJ Virgin: Now they're going to check you out.

JJ Virgin: They want to hear you speak.

JJ Virgin: They want to see how you're so

JJ Virgin: There's an another level, just to add to all of this, that a practitioner needs to now do is they need to have a message.

JJ Virgin: Right?

JJ Virgin: They need to build what I call a trusted authority.

JJ Virgin: I'm always very clear, it's not becoming an influencer and dancing on the, you know, social media platform.

JJ Virgin: Please don't.

JJ Virgin: It is it is taking that expertise, becoming an authority, and becoming trusted, because as you're building business, this is part of what we have to do.

Davin: Maybe.

Davin: Um, so you know, my kind of view on this podcast is usually more around like personal development.

Davin: I I have kind of a real interest in that of like

Davin: thinking about, you know, where do we the doing that inner work to kind of so it's not just about, you know, the tactics or the mechanisms or the strategy, but also like who you're becoming.

Davin: as far as like how that might show up in what you're doing.

Davin: And so for you, you know, and and maybe for the for our listeners, how do they

Davin: maybe reconcile where they are, you know, because I think each of us may have some strengths already that we could leverage without having to become or, you know, follow the pattern um of other people

Davin: But maybe like tap into like who they already are, know thyself and and feel comfortable um with maybe looking at what their current existing, you know, strengths are that they can capitalize on to become

Davin: Those things that you just mentioned.

JJ Virgin: Okay, I'm a there's a formula.

JJ Virgin: I'm very left-brained formulaic, so I'm gonna give you the formula for it.

JJ Virgin: And here's the thing success leaves clues

JJ Virgin: about the model you can follow.

JJ Virgin: But we all have to be the snowflake, the category of one, right?

JJ Virgin: And so I created a model that helps anyone be the category of one because what you just said is so important

JJ Virgin: It's already in you.

JJ Virgin: There might be things you need to amplify, but you've got all of it.

JJ Virgin: It's just learning how to message it correctly.

JJ Virgin: So I put together something called the Trusted Authority Triangle.

JJ Virgin: Incidentally, David

JJ Virgin: Middle of that triangle is you because the reality is the best part of building a business is who you become in the process.

JJ Virgin: And we also know that as you're building the business, it's going to bring up all your stuff.

JJ Virgin: In the healthcare profession, what it brings up the most, and I know from coaching thousands of people, is

JJ Virgin: and and for myself is imposter syndrome.

JJ Virgin: Who am I to do this?

JJ Virgin: Right?

JJ Virgin: Now, here's my reframe because this this ha has been showing up for me forever.

JJ Virgin: And I finally went, what if

JJ Virgin: imposter syndrome, that who am I, is actually you just stepping into a bigger and bigger game, a bigger platform.

JJ Virgin: And, you know, getting outside of your comfort zone.

JJ Virgin: And in that way, I reframe imposter syndrome to be a really important part of the journey and a a sign that you're playing a bigger game and a good thing.

JJ Virgin: But if you look at a trusted authority triangle, what what I sh have on the very bottom of this triangle, and it's very important, is trust.

JJ Virgin: And the reality is getting attention out in the world without trust is meaningless.

JJ Virgin: It's worthless.

JJ Virgin: It's not going to do you any good.

JJ Virgin: But the way that a practitioner establishes trust

JJ Virgin: in twenty twenty six is very different than how they would have established trust in, you know, nineteen eighty.

JJ Virgin: Because trust is established through vulnerability, relatability, showing your humanity.

JJ Virgin: Not TMI, not like you know, b but just so people can see that you're real.

JJ Virgin: You talked about my son's accident when that happened and when I wrote the book about nearly losing my child and what that felt like.

JJ Virgin: That

JJ Virgin: actually cracked open some things for me that people hadn't seen because I don't tend to show a lot of vulnerability and I think most people don't.

JJ Virgin: You know, they're not comfortable with it.

JJ Virgin: But that then people are kind of like

JJ Virgin: they'll they'll s they feel like you're standoffish.

JJ Virgin: So the trust piece of it has to be there.

JJ Virgin: And I feel like for a lot of healthcare professionals, they've been trained not to show that.

JJ Virgin: And it's the hardest part, but it has to be there.

JJ Virgin: The other part of it that's really important and kind of frustrating is the authority piece because one would think

JJ Virgin: that for a healthcare practitioner, authority would be created by their degrees and by their credentials, by their awards, by their experience.

JJ Virgin: And the reality is that's not where it's created.

JJ Virgin: And you can see this play out on social media and it's frustration for all of us.

JJ Virgin: Authority is created by absolutes.

JJ Virgin: It's that person on social media saying, you know, all your health problems come down to methylation.

JJ Virgin: And then everybody goes and throws a bunch of money at that person and thinks that person knows everything.

JJ Virgin: And the reality is quite often absolutes and accuracy don't even live on the same block.

JJ Virgin: But the consumer doesn't know it and the person sounds very authoritative, right?

JJ Virgin: And so the practitioners get really frustrated because a scientist knows everything's nuanced.

JJ Virgin: But we have to be able to say things

JJ Virgin: that people can grab onto and and people want certainty.

JJ Virgin: And so you've got to think about what absolutes do I have in my life, what contrarian beliefs do I have in my life that I can approach with certainty.

JJ Virgin: Like I believe that the traditional scale, figuring out what you how much you weigh, has done more damage to women's metabolism and metabolic health and mental health than anything else out there.

Erik: Yeah

Erik: I agree.

JJ Virgin: You know, and and no one's gonna listen to that and go, oh she's crazy.

JJ Virgin: Or they might, and that's okay too.

JJ Virgin: But you have to have what are your contrarian beliefs out there?

JJ Virgin: Like I've got a great neuro ophthalmologist who believes

JJ Virgin: uh that vision is not an eye problem.

JJ Virgin: It's a brain-based problem.

JJ Virgin: That's his contrary belief.

JJ Virgin: What are those things that you would say you're hill, you would die on?

JJ Virgin: An example I use

JJ Virgin: from my friend Dr.

JJ Virgin: David Promutter, one of the least contrarying people out there.

JJ Virgin: Like he's just not that's not his personality.

JJ Virgin: But here he is a neurologist who c knew one hundred percent that food was impacting people's brains

JJ Virgin: and wrote the book Grain Brain.

JJ Virgin: Right.

JJ Virgin: Sold millions of copies.

JJ Virgin: So what's yours?

JJ Virgin: Because most of us have us.

JJ Virgin: And when you're creating a trusted authority, if you can show that humanity, the vulnerability, the relatability, and then you have that

JJ Virgin: that absolute that hill you would die on and then you can combine it with proof that's the other side of the triangle it's getting those great results

JJ Virgin: Which by the way AI loves when people talk about people because it makes you real, which is kind of funny.

JJ Virgin: That that's how you create that.

JJ Virgin: And and as you can tell, one of the cool things is

JJ Virgin: Someone might model your contrarian belief.

JJ Virgin: I've had so many different things I've said over the years I went people directly took it.

JJ Virgin: Someone might, you know, even

JJ Virgin: kind of model your vulnerability, but they can't steal the results.

JJ Virgin: They can't model.

JJ Virgin: They can't copy the proof.

JJ Virgin: So it allows you to become that category of one, you know, something no one else can can be.

JJ Virgin: Which is what we ultimately want to be.

JJ Virgin: And then the right people will be attracted to you.

JJ Virgin: Not everybody.

JJ Virgin: You'll never attract everybody.

JJ Virgin: If you do, you're attracting nobody.

JJ Virgin: But you'll attract the people you really want to work with, which is the biggest win of all, right?

Erik: No, I love that.

Erik: I think that's that concept I think is really challenging.

Erik: I remember we we had uh Tirona Lodog on our podcast not too long ago and she talked about how she called it knee-to-knee when she's with a patient.

Erik: And I think that that that aspect is how she builds trust in her patient.

Erik: Um

Erik: in being able to just really connect with them both from a physical and a sp a spiritual and emotional standpoint.

Erik: And that allows that in a one to one, more intimate setting.

Erik: But I think what you're referring to is then

Erik: more more in a community setting, right?

Erik: It's like how do you how do you gain that trust and you you do that by a making yourself vulnerable by having a

Erik: uh be becoming the authority on something that means that you have you have passion behind, right?

Erik: You can't you can't steal somebody else's authority and then try and

Erik: Pack that off as your own, right?

Erik: I think that is impossible.

Erik: You get the the call, hey, so-and-so can't make it

Erik: We have that PowerPoint.

Erik: Come give the presentation.

Erik: Yeah, it's tough.

JJ Virgin: Yeah, but you know, most most practitioners it's starting to shift some but remember when integrative and functional medicines first started?

JJ Virgin: The people who were coming into it were the people who, mainly either they or a family member, had tried traditional medicine and failed.

Erik: Yep.

JJ Virgin: And so they ended up like going, I've got to look for other options.

JJ Virgin: And then they end up in this area.

JJ Virgin: So most of the practitioners have some story.

JJ Virgin: in there of of a family member, of their best friend, of them, that they can share that's going to, you know, crack people's hearts open and make them see that they're actually a real person.

Erik: Yeah, I love that.

Erik: Tell us a little more though about how to develop the proof part of it, right?

Erik: Because that, you know, I think that

Erik: Um all of us want to be successful, but how do you then communicate what your successes are in a way that's reproducible and and also feels like authentic

JJ Virgin: So, I mean when really you look at what proof is, proof is just the results that your patients or clients are getting.

JJ Virgin: So, you know, proof can be some of the awards you win, the the you know, downloads you have, the amount of books you sold, the proof of the impact you have out in the world.

JJ Virgin: So w I can say, you know, I've got four New York Times best selling books.

JJ Virgin: However, that's not as exciting as talking about the story of the person who suffered with psoriatic arthritis to the point where they put her on these

JJ Virgin: autoimmune medications that meant she couldn't play with her grandkids and she had to quit her job at the elementary school.

JJ Virgin: that she loved because of this.

JJ Virgin: And then she was Googling anti inflammatory diets one night and stumbled upon the virgin diet and read this book

JJ Virgin: and went on the program and ended up being able to go off of her psoriatic arthritis medications.

JJ Virgin: and is absolutely in remission, feels great, back to school and playing with the grandkids.

JJ Virgin: Which one made a bigger impact?

JJ Virgin: Right?

JJ Virgin: I mean, one is like, okay, I've sold a million of copies of a book.

JJ Virgin: Okay, it changed someone's life.

JJ Virgin: These are the stories that when you have those ones,

JJ Virgin: They're fantastic.

JJ Virgin: And those are the ones, again, people can't really copy.

JJ Virgin: So proof can be a lot of different things, but the more it can be those patient-client stories, the better.

Erik: Yeah, I totally that's that's what I was hoping uh you were gonna get to because I think it's that and we all have it, right?

Erik: We we have multiple stories.

Erik: So then the next step in this, so you we ha we have then w we've observed the proof.

Erik: We have these stories that we are actually telling our other patients, we're telling our family members, we're telling our colleagues.

Erik: So how do we then translate that into a marketing component where now it, you know, what do we do we post this as a testimonial online?

Erik: Do we

Erik: Do we get on and and share that story on Instagram and TikTok?

Erik: How how do you take that proof?

Erik: of that story.

Erik: So it still feels authentic and and true and vulnerable uh to help other individuals who have a similar

Erik: interest and hope to come to you then as the practitioner to help solve their problem in a similar way.

JJ Virgin: Because the big questions we get asked is how do I get more patients, which is exactly this.

JJ Virgin: Right?

JJ Virgin: So

JJ Virgin: You know, this is great, we've got this triangle, but how does this translate into more people who I would love to serve, who I know I could help coming in my door?

JJ Virgin: Because otherwise the tree fell in the forest

JJ Virgin: And so, you know, it starts with get known.

JJ Virgin: What do you want to be known for?

JJ Virgin: And that's that trusted authority triangle.

JJ Virgin: And then you've got to get found.

JJ Virgin: So that now they gotta find you

JJ Virgin: And there's a variety of ways to do this.

JJ Virgin: Now, AI is changing the game as we know.

JJ Virgin: And so

JJ Virgin: The first thing that I would used to always say was optimized for SEO, now it's optimized for SEO and AEO

JJ Virgin: And there there's some things that are similar and there's some things that are different there.

JJ Virgin: One of the things that AI loves are all those, you know, stories and proof and ratings and reviews.

JJ Virgin: And it also is going to pick up information about you if you've published things, if you've got, if you're on podcasts, if you're speaking places, if you've got social media.

JJ Virgin: So it's looking for all of those things.

JJ Virgin: Because ultimately the very best thing that could happen is that someone is looking for a practitioner who has studied at, you know, UCI.

JJ Virgin: and specializes in Hashimoto psyroiditis that is still in the Irvine area and they type they they chat voice chat that into chat or Claude or one of those places and they are recommended because

JJ Virgin: You know, Google's going to send you all of this search and a lot of it's paid.

JJ Virgin: Chat doesn't do that, not yet.

JJ Virgin: And it's all recommendations.

JJ Virgin: And there's three of them.

JJ Virgin: And it's way higher conversion rate.

JJ Virgin: So that's the first one.

JJ Virgin: The second thing, and so you want to do that.

JJ Virgin: And so if you're listening right now, one of the things you'd want to do is is type your business into a couple of the different AI engines you're using.

JJ Virgin: See what comes up.

JJ Virgin: Type your name in, see what comes up.

JJ Virgin: And then describe your patient as if you were your patient describing what you were looking for and see what comes up

JJ Virgin: This is what you want to see is are you even on the board?

JJ Virgin: Are you showing up?

JJ Virgin: Right?

JJ Virgin: So that's the first piece, because we spend all this time on a website, but nowadays

JJ Virgin: When someone is recommending you, you're not even it's a zero click.

JJ Virgin: They're not sending you to the website.

JJ Virgin: So saying this

JJ Virgin: you're gonna have to be on social media a bit.

JJ Virgin: And I don't think this means that you have to be all over the place, but you do have to have some kind of presence as if it was a website, really showcasing who you are so they can at least go over there and go, is this person real?

JJ Virgin: Um the next thing is I am a big proponent of having five to ten great collaborative partners.

JJ Virgin: The more you get clear on what it is you do and don't try to be everything, but like let's say you're focusing on, you know, women's biodentical hormones, or you're focusing on Hashimoto's, or you're focusing on osteoporosis

JJ Virgin: Then you know everybody who shares the same type of patient and you collaborate with each other.

JJ Virgin: This is how I've always built my businesses.

JJ Virgin: It's the number one way I did it and I've done it because people are transferring trust.

JJ Virgin: So it's hugely effective.

JJ Virgin: The other big effective one, of course, is your patients referring other patients.

JJ Virgin: And generally they just need to be a little encouraged because they forget about it.

JJ Virgin: So

JJ Virgin: Letting your patients know that you are actively looking for a couple new patients that are like them.

JJ Virgin: So just if they have anyone they want to refer, you'd welcome it.

JJ Virgin: is a big one.

JJ Virgin: The other one is speaking locally.

JJ Virgin: When I started out and each time I used to move around a bunch.

JJ Virgin: I couldn't decide if I wanted to live in California and Flor or Florida, so I jumped back and forth and I could

JJ Virgin: I got it to the point where I could build a fully stocked business, fully loaded um with a wait list in three to six months.

Erik: Wow.

JJ Virgin: And the way that I would do it is I do local TV.

JJ Virgin: I don't think that really matters really anymore

JJ Virgin: Um and I do a lot of local talks and I do that collaboration with the people that shared the same clients as me, which

JJ Virgin: By the way, could have been the high end hair salon, it could be the aesthetician, it could be the like it was all s anyone who would share the same type of

JJ Virgin: Client or patient, we'd refer back and forth.

JJ Virgin: But local.

Erik: Would you then recommend that they film that?

Erik: lecture now because you know where you said T V was more because I mean really the the goal of T V was to get in front of more people, right?

Erik: Right.

Erik: If you're doing this local talk now, if you record that, right, you could post that on social media, you could post that on YouTube, Facebook, then it gets you in front of

Erik: a few more people than you would at that moment in the live entertainment.

Erik: Would you suggest doing that?

JJ Virgin: Oh, I'm so happy you said that.

JJ Virgin: So I will tell you that

JJ Virgin: part of my contract now wherever I speak and then if I don't if they're not capturing it I do it myself is I always come out with the video.

JJ Virgin: I always, always, always do it for a couple reasons.

JJ Virgin: Number one, we can take it, we can do a long form and put it on YouTube.

JJ Virgin: We can split it up and we can make short ones that we can put on different, you know, different platforms.

JJ Virgin: I think we should pick our primary platform that we focus on.

JJ Virgin: If I was starting all over today, I'd pick YouTube.

JJ Virgin: Um I'd probably pick YouTube and then I'd take the audio cut of it and put it on a podcast.

JJ Virgin: And if I was doing YouTube and I did some shorts, I'd I'd have at least a presence on Instagram.

JJ Virgin: I think it was probably pretty important

JJ Virgin: But I focus on YouTube the most because it's a search engine.

JJ Virgin: So and for a lot of what we do, it's educational.

JJ Virgin: And we are so much we need to educate our

JJ Virgin: clients our patients on what we're doing.

JJ Virgin: So it gives you the opportunity to do that because as we all know, if someone comes into your office and they've had the opportunity to hear you speak or to listen to 10 to 15 minutes of what you do

JJ Virgin: They're gonna be in such a better place to say yes to the program you're gonna offer them.

JJ Virgin: Um so so local talks, absolutely record them, and here's the other piece that you need, here's the missing thing

JJ Virgin: And this is very funny.

JJ Virgin: Do you know who Joe Mercola is?

Erik: Uh Dr.

Erik: Mercola?

JJ Virgin: So Dr.

JJ Virgin: Mercola ages and ages ago

JJ Virgin: um was was the first real big health website on the internet and had the biggest one for years and years and years.

JJ Virgin: And early on I wrote a book.

JJ Virgin: And I was like, what how what should I do with this?

JJ Virgin: And one of my friends said, you know, Dr.

JJ Virgin: Mercola launched his books.

JJ Virgin: You should go ask him.

JJ Virgin: So I sat down at dinner with him and he said, JJ, the money is in the list.

JJ Virgin: And I I was on Dr.

JJ Virgin: Phil at the time every week and I go, well, what list are you talking?

JJ Virgin: Where is the this list that the money is in, right?

JJ Virgin: And I had a website, this was 2007, but I did not have a little box to put your name and email.

JJ Virgin: Which means I have no way to nurture a relationship with the person because it turns out that when someone is checking you out

JJ Virgin: About 50% of the people kind of looking, evaluating, you know, maybe putting their name in your get to get your newsletter or your book or whatever will make a buying decision in the next 18 months.

JJ Virgin: Only 3% of that 50% will make it now and 15% of the 50% over the three months, the rest are over 18 months.

JJ Virgin: So

JJ Virgin: I think one of the most important things we can do is as we're creating, we're we're out speaking, we are doing video, we're doing all these things, that we have a way for people to come back

JJ Virgin: to our list and then we're able to to nurture them so that when they are ready to say yes, they say yes to us, not to someone else because we never talk to them again

JJ Virgin: So one of the things I like to do, and this is actually pretty easy to do if you have a signature talk.

JJ Virgin: So you create your trusted triangle, you have your thing that you talk about the most.

JJ Virgin: For me, it is all about muscle as your metabolic control center to really help with your metabolism and your metabolic health

JJ Virgin: And so I have a signature talk around that.

JJ Virgin: I actually have a book coming out around that.

JJ Virgin: But from my signature talk, I could very easily create a guide.

JJ Virgin: And that guide becomes a free book that I can then use to get their name and email when I'm going to do a talk.

JJ Virgin: So you will also want to think about when you're doing all these things, you've got to do something to bring them back to an email list.

JJ Virgin: Otherwise

JJ Virgin: you've only got three percent of the fifty percent.

JJ Virgin: So you got one point five percent that may be ready right then and there to work with you.

JJ Virgin: And the rest of them, you're kinda at the mercy of do they even remember who you are when they're ready to go.

Erik: That's a great point.

Erik: I remember when we were first getting so I transitioned from a conventional medicine practice and opened up

Erik: uh Temecula Center for Integrative Medicine with Nicole Fox, who has gone through your your mentorship program.

Erik: And uh we we started doing these talks and one of the things we did right off the bat was gather

Erik: contact information from everybody who came to the talk.

Erik: Because we knew we weren't opening for several months, but we wanted to be able to communicate in a way with them.

Erik: And some were just probably checking me out, didn't know anything about me, other were were already big fans and were inviting people to come to the talk.

Erik: But uh to your point, I think gathering that list

Erik: Is going to be really important down the road as people then because some people are just hesitant.

Erik: They're going to sit back and say, All right, I'm just going to watch.

Erik: But if you lose contact with them

Erik: They may completely forget who you are over that course of eighteen months.

Erik: I I'm really glad you brought that up.

JJ Virgin: Well, and there's another thing in marketing where we talk about like stages of a customer's journey.

JJ Virgin: is at first they may not be aware, like they don't even know what's wrong with them.

JJ Virgin: Then they become problem aware, then they become solution aware.

JJ Virgin: So you don't know where they are in that journey

JJ Virgin: And, you know, if they're problem aware, they're just checking things out.

JJ Virgin: If they're solution aware, now they're looking at the best provider for it.

JJ Virgin: Right.

JJ Virgin: So you don't know where they are.

JJ Virgin: You want to make sure that they're ready to take action with you when they're ready to take action, which means

JJ Virgin: You don't just get them on a list.

JJ Virgin: You then have to actually communicate with them regularly as well.

JJ Virgin: And it's the opportunity, and you asked about where do we use this proof.

JJ Virgin: This is a great place to use the proof.

JJ Virgin: The proof is great to put those stories into your talk, put those stories into the guidebook, put the stories into the emails that you're sending out so people can relate to people just like them.

JJ Virgin: Put the stories on social media.

JJ Virgin: You know, anytime you're doing a talk, that's those stories should be in there because it helps people see what's possible.

JJ Virgin: Right?

JJ Virgin: I mean it's like theory until you show them really what's happening out on the field.

JJ Virgin: So you gotta take them out on the field with you, right?

Erik: Yep, you're exa I I think you're exactly right.

Erik: One of the questions that came up for me when you were talking about

Erik: you know, identifying w what your specific area of interest would be in terms of, you know, and then you kinda collaborate with others.

Erik: What what do you say then to the practitioners like, oh, but you know what?

Erik: I love doing everything in integrative and functional medicine.

Erik: And I, you know, I want to just be a general practitioner in integrative and functional medicine.

Erik: I just want to see whatever comes through my door.

JJ Virgin: You will make a lot less money and you will have a lot less patience.

JJ Virgin: I mean, that's the challenge because people don't seek out generalists.

JJ Virgin: People seek out experts, they speak out, seek out specialists, and they pay more for them.

JJ Virgin: So in the

JJ Virgin: The funniest part about all that is and especially now more than ever, no one is going on to AI and saying, I need a generalist in functional and integrative medicine.

JJ Virgin: Right?

JJ Virgin: They go onto AI for a specific condition.

JJ Virgin: And that means you, the generalists, are not going to be the one recommended.

JJ Virgin: They're going to recommend the experts in that specific condition.

JJ Virgin: The funny part about becoming a expert, a specialist in something, is that people will come to you for all the other things.

JJ Virgin: It's like once you're an expert or specialist in one thing, you just elevated yourself on everything

JJ Virgin: So it doesn't actually limit you.

JJ Virgin: People think it limits you.

JJ Virgin: It helps people find you.

JJ Virgin: And so that's

JJ Virgin: The biggest challenge I have starting out with when we're coaching people is, okay, what what's the first thing we're going to choose

JJ Virgin: And that is the the fight, the struggle.

JJ Virgin: I like true I like doing all of it in call uh you know in complex cases.

JJ Virgin: I'm like, that's totally fine.

JJ Virgin: You're still gonna end up doing that.

JJ Virgin: And even let's say someone's gonna says

JJ Virgin: I'm going to focus on hormone replacement therapy.

JJ Virgin: Come on, if you're going to do hormones, you think you're not going to be talking about gut health and detox?

JJ Virgin: And you're like, of course you're you know, and autoimmune and like all those things are gonna come up.

JJ Virgin: They're all gonna be tools in your toolbox, but the person is looking for for someone to help them with their

JJ Virgin: Hormone problem, right?

JJ Virgin: That's what they're looking for.

Davin: So No, I I think, you know, I've noticed that in my own practice and you know, if you're if you're not aware, JJ, you know, I was a

Davin: traditional primary care and kind of more of the Western healthcare model for twenty-some years was a CMIO with a health system, et cetera.

Davin: And just in the last two years I kind of broke free

Davin: And I'm now doing, you know, more of an integrative uh concierge, you know, private practice model.

Davin: And um, my interest is more in like longevity and optimization.

Davin: And to your point, you know, like those are the patients, you know, that's my sweet spot, right?

Davin: Like patients who come and they're already fairly healthy and they're like, hey, I wanna remain healthy, I wanna optimize, I wanna

Davin: You know, like you know, in in our culture today there's a lot of older parents now, like older new parents, and they're like, Hey, I gotta be around forever.

Davin: So they want this you know, longevity is like the hot topic.

Davin: But what happens is, you know, you g you get a little bit of a reputation and then someone comes to you and they're like, oh

Davin: You know, would you take a look at this case?

Davin: You know, would you my friend, they're super sick.

Davin: Would you talk to them, right?

Davin: And you're like, okay, I'll talk to them.

Davin: And then you you know, you realize, oh my gosh, this is a complicated case

Davin: And I'm thinking, yeah, this should go to my brother Erik, who's been doing functional medicine for you know twenty years.

Davin: Um, but they are like, well, just will you at least try and help me?

Davin: And I'm like, yeah, of course.

Davin: I mean, we can at least get started with some basic things.

Davin: We can

Davin: to your point, you know, let's check your hormones, gut, you know, genetics, your, you know, your biomarkers, and we're we're gonna be able to make a big impact regardless, you know, whether I have, you know, 20 years of experience or not

Davin: So I I love what you're saying.

JJ Virgin: It's so much easier and more fun too, like to really hone in in an area.

JJ Virgin: But I will tell you a funny story.

JJ Virgin: Back, you know, I when I was seeing people one on one

JJ Virgin: I had someone wanted to send me an AIDS.

JJ Virgin: A friend of theirs had AIDS.

JJ Virgin: And I'm like, I work in weight loss.

JJ Virgin: I know, but I mean just the same thing.

JJ Virgin: I'm like

JJ Virgin: I there's like this is so far beyond anything.

JJ Virgin: Like, I don't even know what you're talking about.

JJ Virgin: So it is definitely a thing, but it's also

JJ Virgin: Gosh, it's so freeing when you just decide I'm gonna focus on longevity and optimization.

JJ Virgin: So I'm gonna just become obsessed with that and learn everything about this.

JJ Virgin: Because granted, yes, could you put all these models into AI and it would plop out what to do?

JJ Virgin: Sure, but

JJ Virgin: You know, then you've got someone else who says, I work complex environmental medicine cases.

JJ Virgin: Great, send to them.

Erik: Yeah, exactly.

Erik: It's it's interesting that you say about chat GTP.

Erik: I had this experience.

Erik: uh not too long ago we we just transitioned to adding a membership program to our practice.

Erik: We still take insurance.

Erik: But we realized after not getting any increase in reimbursement for over eleven years that we needed to do something because our overhead kept climbing.

Erik: Staff

Erik: Salaries were going up, the you know, California keeps raising the l you know the the lower limits of what you know you pay somebody.

Erik: So we decided to do a membership.

Erik: So for the first time in like four years, I'm taking new patients because my practice was kind of closed.

Erik: I couldn't I couldn't take any new patients.

Erik: Uh, but because I I set my price point as such that that now I lost a patience to some of my colleagues in our practice

Erik: I was opening up and seeing new patients.

Erik: And I had a patient come in and tell me that they they Googled or not Googled.

Erik: They went to Chat GTP

Erik: and said who's the best COVID, post-COVID long hauler doc?

Erik: And it put my name in there.

Erik: Well, I hadn't put anything on our website or anything, but I had given a talk

Erik: for and put it on YouTube for the Naturopathic School up in Bastier and I talked about how to treat long COVID

Erik: So all of a sudden now I'm the authority.

Erik: And it listed me out in Southern California as the top COVID long hauler practitioner.

JJ Virgin: Wow, hope you want to do that.

Erik: Uh you know, I actually enjoy that because doing you know and and and to your point of finding something that you're passionate about and when you teach it

Erik: it becomes part of you.

Erik: Yeah.

Erik: And then you when these patients come in, I have a plan for them.

Erik: Right.

Erik: Having a plan for somebody gives you that authority.

Erik: Right?

Erik: Peop patients come in and when you have a plan for them, they know

Erik: Hey, this person's gonna be able to take care of me.

Erik: To Davin's point, not on every level, but it's gonna be a start.

Erik: And you know, our

Erik: Our mantra is that hope begins from the time they enter the door till the time they leave.

Erik: So hope and healing, right?

Erik: And so I I think that that's that's really an important uh aspect of it.

JJ Virgin: I also want to call out that you you did something interesting, some of the things that we teach at Health Business Growth Collective in terms of business models.

JJ Virgin: Um because

JJ Virgin: as we're teaching physicians to package into programs, to shift the biggest questions are how do you shift from insurance to cash pay?

JJ Virgin: You know, we and we move them off of fee for service into some kind of programs, but there's all this fear and trepidation.

JJ Virgin: I was thinking of a doctor we have in

JJ Virgin: uh Calabasas Thousands O Thousand Oaks area who was seeing 4,000 patients a year and she went to hundred and fifty.

JJ Virgin: Basically her revenue is like double or triple.

JJ Virgin: and she's working less.

JJ Virgin: Um but we do have a model that we teach which is, you know, you bring in a membership model so that you can do the extensive work.

JJ Virgin: And you can still use insurance for what insurance will pay, and then the membership model model covers the rest.

JJ Virgin: And so there are those different ways to approach this.

JJ Virgin: depending on what someone wants to do, so that you can do care in the right way.

JJ Virgin: Because if you try to do care just on an insurance model

JJ Virgin: as you were seeing, right?

JJ Virgin: And you're trying to do optimized care and a basic insurance model, something's gotta give, and it's usually the practitioner.

JJ Virgin: getting completely wiped out, burnout.

JJ Virgin: And uh I had one one of our doctors was when he came to us, he was going broke, like trying to treat this way, waiting for insurance reimbursements, not having enough time, and it was just killing him

Davin: I think obviously, you know, you're an expert in this space, so we could go very deep on sort of the tactics of some of these different concepts and and topics.

Davin: Um, but maybe, you know, we're as we come up on time here a little bit, uh some of the things we've covered, I wonder if obviously

Davin: I think it would be wise for people to look up your your program and maybe consider it.

Davin: But um but just categorically if you were to sort of hit some

Davin: some topics or some categories that people should think about as they get started.

Davin: Like one, it's obviously is who you are, right?

Davin: Like creating your brand, your authority, like your message, like who you are, your niche maybe

Davin: And then um and then it uh there it appears to be maybe some tools and or pay for services like the ability to capture a list, right?

Davin: Um

Davin: uh maybe even how you design your workflows in your clinic so that you can be efficient and effective in delivering whatever, you know, knowledge that you have.

Davin: But if you were to kind of just say, hey, what are the top three or four things you should put in place?

Davin: in different categories of your business.

Davin: Could could you help us sort of think through that maybe for people?

JJ Virgin: Yeah, as you can tell, there's a lot of things and it can be very overwhelming.

JJ Virgin: So actually what I did with my mentor team and and a lot of these things, you know, I was doing this first myself and then one of my girlfriends, I don't know if you know Dr.

JJ Virgin: Anna Kebecca.

JJ Virgin: But I met her at an IFM um uh seven day workshop.

JJ Virgin: She was like, You have to teach me what you're doing.

JJ Virgin: I go, I don't know how I'm doing what I'm doing.

JJ Virgin: Um but she f she finally badgered me enough that that I

JJ Virgin: had her I you know, she hired me and it forced me to start to make this systematized.

JJ Virgin: Yeah.

JJ Virgin: And so now what we've done, because I think for physicians

JJ Virgin: clinicians, we tend to be more left-brained and more systematized.

JJ Virgin: And so what we did was we created a health business ascension model

JJ Virgin: to help people go all along the way.

JJ Virgin: In fact, I can give you this with a link with a quiz attached to help people see where they are and it has

JJ Virgin: every step and then what things are important each step.

JJ Virgin: But I'll just give it to you a high level and then people can get this.

JJ Virgin: Is generally one of the things that we as practitioners will always have to do and s where I probably spend most of my

JJ Virgin: free time is in learning.

JJ Virgin: Like, you know, especially now more than ever.

JJ Virgin: It's like there's new research.

JJ Virgin: There's like so many things.

JJ Virgin: So you always have to stay a trainee.

JJ Virgin: But what I see out there in the field that's really problematic is people are going to to

JJ Virgin: health conferences, clinical conferences, thinking they're gonna learn how to do their business better.

JJ Virgin: And yeah, it's like going to a manager's to get your hair cut.

JJ Virgin: This would make no sense whatsoever, right?

JJ Virgin: Or going to the gas station

JJ Virgin: for a gourmet dinner.

JJ Virgin: So you're not gonna learn business at a clinical conference.

JJ Virgin: So what happens next is these you find a better way, which is what you started to see.

JJ Virgin: I want to do longevity

JJ Virgin: And then you try to pull it into a traditional model, it doesn't work because traditional models, fee for service, transactional, very transactional businesses, you're selling transformation

JJ Virgin: And so the first thing you have to do is create a foundational program that offers that transformation.

JJ Virgin: The challenge I see with people is a lot of times they're in a transactional model and they're so burnt out they think, I'm just gonna go hop over here and create a course.

JJ Virgin: And it'll be great.

JJ Virgin: And then I don't have to do this anymore and I'll sell it for nine dollars and I'll sell millions of them or some ridiculous I mean, I hear this all the time.

JJ Virgin: Or

JJ Virgin: They'll get preyed upon at a conference and someone will sell them a $25,000 course that they're gonna make.

JJ Virgin: And it's field of dreams.

JJ Virgin: They think that if they build it, they will come and they don't

JJ Virgin: So it's really looking at what you have already and packaging it into a process that you sell as a program.

JJ Virgin: That's that's the first thing.

JJ Virgin: And that's really what someone needs to have and do.

JJ Virgin: Now, below that, like we we always go

JJ Virgin: You start with you're moving out of transactional and transformational.

JJ Virgin: It's a program, it's understanding that brand, that trusted authority.

JJ Virgin: Once you have those things,

JJ Virgin: Then you can start to look at what systems and operations and all that do I put in place so that I'll be able to scale my business.

JJ Virgin: You're not scaling your business.

JJ Virgin: Everybody wants to scale their business, but unless you have the systems and operations in place

JJ Virgin: you put your foot on gas and everything breaks fast.

JJ Virgin: You know, and and I know that because I've I've done that.

JJ Virgin: So we actually started in our health business ascension model, once you've had that

JJ Virgin: You've created that that idea of the people you want to serve, your trusted authority.

JJ Virgin: You then create your program.

JJ Virgin: From your program, you decide that customer journey.

JJ Virgin: You can now get the

JJ Virgin: program, what am I going to do to bring people in?

JJ Virgin: What am I going to do after the program?

JJ Virgin: We pull them into a membership after the program.

JJ Virgin: What are the optimizations that I need to put in place?

JJ Virgin: And then you scale.

JJ Virgin: So that's the found like the basic

JJ Virgin: format of it.

JJ Virgin: There's things you're going to need in marketing and team and tech uh all along the way, but they're not as much as people think.

JJ Virgin: And we've put together a

JJ Virgin: hub of service companies and business companies that we've vet because I find that healthcare practitioners get taken advantage of a lot and it makes me very angry.

JJ Virgin: You know, quite often, and this is what the Ascension model helps you with, is quite often s it's not even that they're buying the wrong things, that they're getting the wrong thing

JJ Virgin: the right thing, but it's the wrong time.

JJ Virgin: You know, they'll be sold that they need to be on TV or they need to write a book, but they don't even know what their message is yet.

Erik: Right.

JJ Virgin: Right, but it's really attractive.

JJ Virgin: So they're like, do it in place to their ego, of course you should have a book, you know?

JJ Virgin: So

JJ Virgin: That's why we put that all together so you could do the right thing at the right time in your business and then just continue to build on that foundation instead of being, you know, getting yourself burned early and then run back to a traditional job.

Erik: I totally, totally agree with that.

Erik: And I can't tell you how many times I've been approached with, oh, just do this and and pay twelve thousand dollars and you'll we'll make you successful.

Erik: So you'll you'll never want for patience again, right?

JJ Virgin: It'll be like magic, like exactly.

Erik: And I I love I love how you have

Erik: placed a hierarchy in what's most important first, right?

Erik: Because you can't start scaling something that isn't organized.

Erik: Nobody's gonna want to participate in.

Erik: And how do you create we I mean it was it's been a challenge for us.

Erik: We and we realized early on because we were so comprehensive and big in what we were doing.

Erik: It was going to be very difficult to ever scale what we were doing.

Erik: We were too diversified.

Erik: We were we didn't have a a specific message

Erik: And so it was uh really challenging from that standpoint.

JJ Virgin: It is interesting on the diversified side.

JJ Virgin: My second person I coached after Anna Kenbeca was um Dr.

JJ Virgin: Alan Christensen, and he had this

JJ Virgin: He's a naturopathic medical doctor in Arizona and he had a uh you know integrative center that did all the things.

JJ Virgin: And I said, What do you love?

JJ Virgin: He goes, I love thyroid.

JJ Virgin: Yep.

JJ Virgin: All right.

JJ Virgin: So what we did for him so he could have all the things, but also have the trusted authority is he became the thyroid guy.

JJ Virgin: He wrote a New York Times bestselling book on thyroid.

JJ Virgin: Then he had someone else who was the HRT person.

JJ Virgin: Then he had someone else who so we just created the specialist within the you know the overarching brand.

JJ Virgin: And that's how it worked.

Erik: Well, we're coming up on our hour here, but I'd love to kind of see what your vision is.

Erik: for kind of the next evolution here in functional medicine.

Erik: You kind of alluded to how AI is already transforming it from a marketing and a branding standpoint.

Erik: But w what are you seeing?

Erik: Where do you see things going in the next five to ten years in terms of functional medicine, integrated medicine, and the business of

Erik: of that.

JJ Virgin: Well here's what I here's what I wanna manifest.

JJ Virgin: Number one is I was fortunate because I never took insurance because I was an unlicensed practitioner.

JJ Virgin: So

JJ Virgin: as if that sounds like a problem, it actually became a an opportunity and a benefit because when people pay cash, I like to say the more you pay, the more you pay attention.

JJ Virgin: And when people would pay cash and commit with their time, they actually got results

JJ Virgin: I've always felt that the challenge in a in insurance-based practice is that people are going for what insurance will pay for.

JJ Virgin: They're not committed

JJ Virgin: Right.

JJ Virgin: So my dream is that people will pay for their bodies like they pay for their pets.

JJ Virgin: Or the cars.

JJ Virgin: So that's the first thing is that we are educating people to pay for these things.

JJ Virgin: And the reality is when you really go through the pricing models.

JJ Virgin: When you look at what the average patient will do to jump through hoops to go to all these different people to finally get an answer versus if they just went to entrusted authority first, they would have saved time, saved money, even though they're paying cash for it.

JJ Virgin: And they would have probably gotten better results because they're committed.

JJ Virgin: So that's the first part is is really educating the patient.

JJ Virgin: The second part is having the practitioner understand

JJ Virgin: that in order for them to succeed in the type of practice they want to practice, they actually have to become a CEO, entrepreneur, and brand

JJ Virgin: And, you know, uh it's there's n it's not optional.

JJ Virgin: Otherwise go work for someone.

JJ Virgin: But if you want to step into this and really do this and really go out there and transform people's health and healthcare

JJ Virgin: then, you know, it's gonna take a lot of personal growth.

JJ Virgin: And it doesn't end.

JJ Virgin: Doesn't end.

JJ Virgin: It's always going on.

JJ Virgin: In the middle of that trusted authority triangle again is you.

JJ Virgin: Yeah?

JJ Virgin: The biggest person that you have to convince that you're the authority

JJ Virgin: that you're trustworthy, that you're worth it is you.

JJ Virgin: So and every time you step to the next level, you have to do it again.

JJ Virgin: So there's that piece of it that I hope and

JJ Virgin: Honestly, while I think that AI and you know DTC labs and all that are democratizing health, I think people will seek out trusted authorities more than ever and pay for them.

JJ Virgin: So I think it creates a bigger opportunity for practitioners, but again, they have to develop a different skill set than they ever developed before, which is that skill set of of being an entrepreneur and developing a personal brand

Erik: Yeah, so why do you think it's gonna be why do you think AI is going to create more of a demand for personal interaction in in

Erik: practice intimacy versus just getting their information from AI.

JJ Virgin: Because if it really worked like that, we wouldn't need any more weight loss books.

JJ Virgin: I mean this is the thing, like everyone's concerned about AI, and while you can get information from AI, you don't know if there it's

JJ Virgin: hallucinating or not.

JJ Virgin: And you still need the accountability, the trust, the person who really cares about you, the person who's going to guide that process

JJ Virgin: And you know, yes, you can get a lot of from AI.

JJ Virgin: I have a client that I've been working with for years who was like, look what AI, I put all your stuff in for AI and look what it spit out.

JJ Virgin: I'm like, that's great.

JJ Virgin: But he still pings me about all the things he needs to do.

JJ Virgin: So, you know, they still want that guidance.

JJ Virgin: I think there's a big role and there's gonna be even bigger role for health coaches

JJ Virgin: Um and for that, you know, the the physician to help steer the ship.

JJ Virgin: So again, it but it's gotta be someone who's created their trusted authority.

JJ Virgin: The generic

JJ Virgin: you know, afraid of their shadow, not gonna go stand out there, etc.

JJ Virgin: That i you can't do that anymore.

JJ Virgin: You you d you you gotta be out in front.

JJ Virgin: And so we need you to do that, you know?

JJ Virgin: And I know it's icky and scary.

JJ Virgin: I'm a total introvert, so I get it, but it's part of the part of the deal to be able to go out there and do the work you want to do in the world.

Davin: I think that's great.

Davin: And and, you know, we can feel your, you know, energy around coaching us, right?

Davin: Us as, you know

Davin: potential entrepreneurs in this space, which isn't what we went into.

Davin: You're not potential entrepreneurs.

Davin: You are entrepreneurs in the space.

Davin: Guess what?

Davin: No, it's true.

Davin: That's not our mindset, right, when we enter this field.

Davin: That's what you have to be, yeah.

JJ Virgin: And and really

JJ Virgin: It's the entrepreneur is the visionary.

JJ Virgin: Your visionary is transforming health and healthcare.

JJ Virgin: We are living in a system that we all know is disease care focused, and we are making that shift.

JJ Virgin: But it's like so disruptive.

JJ Virgin: So many things have to change.

JJ Virgin: And that's what you're doing.

JJ Virgin: And you're on the front lines doing it.

Davin: Well, and if you think about it, like I mean, I think that term gets

Davin: mixed up for people, right?

Davin: Because they think of like Wall Street, you know, business folks.

Davin: And in reality, an entrepreneur is just a creative leader, right?

Davin: Who's just finding blue ways problems, you know, solving problems.

JJ Virgin: Yeah

Davin: And that's what doctors that's what we're paid to do already, right?

Davin: So we just have to shift our focus a little bit in how what problems we're solving.

JJ Virgin: Right.

JJ Virgin: You just have to learn some of the basics of business.

JJ Virgin: I I look at it this when someone asks me, you know, in in our two companies that we have, what do I do?

JJ Virgin: I go, I'm the talent.

JJ Virgin: You know?

JJ Virgin: They ask me a tech question, I go, no, I'm the talent.

JJ Virgin: I need to know how all that stuff works, but I'm not going to be spending my time doing that because that's not the best place for me to be.

JJ Virgin: And so while while the

JJ Virgin: physician entrepreneur needs to know these things, they're still ultimately gonna want to be where they're the talent, right?

JJ Virgin: So that they can be that's their greatest good and they're good.

Davin: It's a really good point.

Erik: Yeah, it's l leveraging your skill set and your knowledge to impact and influence many, right?

Erik: Right the and I think that's what you talk, you know, about this idea of one-on-one, you can only influence one.

Erik: Right.

Erik: But when you when you start to leverage that um from a greater capacity, now you're starting to influence

Erik: hundreds and thousands.

Erik: And that's that's where the impact can really be felt.

Erik: And that can still be made from a personal standpoint.

Erik: Uh you don't lose that, but it's it's just in done in a little bit different way, but you're leveraging what you know and what you've what you've understood to to reach out to a lot more people.

JJ Virgin: You know, even if all the the way that you influence those people was just because you were doing marketing for your business and part of marketing for your business was creating that signature talk, doing your YouTube videos and having a guide book

JJ Virgin: So that you would have patients coming in one-to-one, you would still have no idea where all that's going to and the lives that you start to transform that you'll never talk to, you'll never hear from, right?

JJ Virgin: I was literally just at a on a BHRT Academy boat cruise, sitting next to a gal who was gushing about a podcast she listens to, happens to be one of my friends, and how has changed your life and everything.

JJ Virgin: I just

JJ Virgin: took all of that information, sent it to him 'cause like you have no idea.

JJ Virgin: You have no idea the impact you're making out there.

JJ Virgin: But y you have these this opportunity to be able to do what you love and reach a whole lot more people

JJ Virgin: And really not just leave a legacy, but live it, right?

Erik: For sure.

Erik: For sure.

Davin: Well said.

Erik: Any any final questions, Davin?

Davin: No, I mean I think that was a a great way to end it, honestly, because um

Davin: I think people have the opportunity to shine their light, right?

Davin: And it it doesn't have to be the same as everybody else, but just get out there, have the courage to

Davin: um you know share what you know and and people will people will respond to that.

JJ Virgin: Yeah, the people who are the right people for you will respond to it.

Erik: Awesome.

Erik: So if people want to find and learn more about you, JJ, where should they go?

JJ Virgin: I just got a link because I wanted to make sure.

JJ Virgin: So I have a link for that health business sustention model.

JJ Virgin: That they can get and they can take in a quiz and it will tell them where they're at.

JJ Virgin: And that is hbgc.

JJ Virgin: co C O

JJ Virgin: Forward slash get dash h b a n.

Erik: Great.

Erik: We'll post that for sure.

JJ Virgin: Yeah, that's that's the easy one.

JJ Virgin: I'm all over the place uh online and

JJ Virgin: Teaching so easy to find.

Erik: Awesome.

Erik: Well, thank you again for your time.

Erik: We know you're super busy and making a great impact across our country and in moving

Erik: integrative and functional medicine forward, but more importantly in in improving the quality of life of practitioners and in how they can

Erik: m generate revenues so that they can maintain themselves, right?

Erik: That's the I think the key to burnout is making an making enough revenue so that you feel like you're being valued for what you're doing.

Erik: And then two

Erik: You you have enough time to be able to do what you want to do in life besides just work, right?

JJ Virgin: So we say that you shouldn't have to sacrifice your life to save others.

Erik: Love it.

Erik: Well, thank you again.

Erik: And uh we look forward to sharing this with everybody on our podcast and and take a look at JJ's podcast as well and particularly if you want to learn more about muscle.

Erik: Yeah.

JJ Virgin: We also have Health Business Growth Show.

JJ Virgin: We have Rebels with the Root Cause Show.

JJ Virgin: That's my husband's.

JJ Virgin: Um, which you guys should probably be on since you're Rebels.

JJ Virgin: And then I have of course my Well Beyond 40 for the consumer audience.

Erik: Awesome.

Erik: Love it.

Erik: Well, thank you very much.

JJ Virgin: Thank you.