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Ohio's public schools serve 1.6 million children - 90 percent of students in the state! What happens in the classroom has impacts far beyond the walls of the K-12 school building or higher ed lecture hall. So, on behalf of the 120,000 members of the Ohio Education Association, we're taking a deeper dive into some of the many education issues facing our students, educators, and communities. Originally launched in 2021 as Education Matters, Public Education Matters is your source for insightful conversations with the people who shape the education landscape in Ohio. Have a topic you'd like to hear about on Public Education Matters? Email us at educationmatters@ohea.org
Intro - Various members and students speaking 0:08
Public Education Matters. Public Education Matters. Public Education Matters because every student matters. Education Matters. Public Education Matters because it is the foundation of our democracy. Public Education Matters because we are stronger when we speak in one voice. Public Education Matters. Public Education Matters. Public Education Matters, public Education Matters. This is public Education Matters, brought to you by the Ohio Education Association.
Katie Olmsted 0:41
Welcome back to Public Education Matters. I'm your host, Katie Olmsted, and I'm part of the communications team for the Ohio Education Association's nearly 120,000 members across the state. No matter where these public educators live, their lives and their livelihoods are seriously impacted by the decision makers in the statehouse and on Capitol Hill. And because of Ohio's broken mapmaking system and years of gerrymandering, those lawmakers have been able to choose their voters and not the other way around. A citizen-led ballot initiative that will hopefully be in front of voters this November will change that, and finally end gerrymandering in Ohio once and for all. That's the mission of the group behind this ballot initiative called Citizens, Not Politicians. And they have been out in force across the state with OEA's full support, collecting the necessary signatures to get this important constitutional amendment on the ballot in the fall. When passed, this amendment would, among other things, create a 15 member Ohio citizens redistricting commission made up of Democratic, Republican, and Independent citizens who broadly represent the different geographic areas and demographics of the state. It would also ban current or former politicians, political party officials and lobbyists from sitting on the commission. And it would make it unconstitutional to draw voting districts that discriminate against or favor any political party or individual politician, requiring the commission to operate under an open and independent process. Honestly, this amendment just makes sense, no matter which political party you belong to, if you belong to a political party at all. And let's face it, there are a heck of a lot of Ohioans who don't and they don't have very much of a voice at all in the statehouse, because of gerrymandering. The bottom line is that ending gerrymandering is a bipartisan, non-partisan issue. And it's a mission that has the backing of state leaders across party lines, and it's supported by retired Ohio Supreme Court Chief Justice Maureen O'Connor, who happens to be a registered Republican, and former Ohio Supreme Court Justice Yvette McGee Brown, who happens to be a registered Democrat. These women are trailblazers! O'Connor was the first ever female chief justice for Ohio Supreme Court. And McGee Brown was the first African American woman to serve on the state's highest court, and both sat down with us in late May to share their thoughts on why Ohioans must pass the Citizens Not Politicians amendment. I'll tell you now, it is a bit of a longer conversation than we usually have here on this podcast. But it is so, so important to hear what they have to say. So grab a cup of coffee, sit back and take a listen.
Katie Olmsted 3:40
Chief, Yvette, thank you so much for taking the time to sit down with us to really help us understand what is going on with Citizens Not Politicians. Super high level, what is this all about?
Chief Justice Maureen O'Connor 3:53
Well, if I may first of all thank the OEA and you and your membership for giving us this opportunity to talk to you in depth about citizens, not politicians, and Ohio's initiative to end gerrymandering. Let's start by the fact why do we need this? Okay. Ohio is one of the most gerrymandered states in the nation, and politicians and lobbyists in Ohio, they routinely manipulate voting districts both in the General Assembly in Columbus and for Congress in the United States Congress voting districts to protect their interest and to guarantee their reelection, allowing politicians to choose their voters rather than voters choosing their politicians and that has been going on for some time. The last election in 2022 for both the primary and the general election, Ohio operated under unconstitutional maps, admittedly they were unconstitutional. The Federal Court that ordered this use of the third map admitted, you know, recognized I shouldn't say that they were unconstitutional. And yet they were required to use them, the Secretary of State was required to use them. And that's what Ohioans voted on. You know, from '21 to '22, politicians and backroom insiders, you know, ignore the court. I don't have to go into depth about, you know, my last year on the court 2022, where we declared seven maps unconstitutional. And we got a new map that was, you know, created in 2023. And politicians met behind closed doors, and struck a deal to, again, impose gerrymandered maps. And I want to emphasize, the redistricting commission is made up of the governor, the Secretary of State, the auditor, leadership of the majority party -- Speaker of the House and the president of the Senate -- and then leadership of the minority party. All seven members were in that room, struck the deal, and then lo and behold, come out and say we're all in agreement on the map. That was not done in public. And I'm just gonna, you know, say on the record that Democrats gerrymander when they get the opportunity, as well as Republicans. So this is a bipartisan problem. And, or you could call it nonpartisan because except for the fact that we now have a super majority in the legislature. And that happens to be a, you know, Republican majority. Could have happened, you know, had the Democrats been in office, you know, they would have been the majority, they would have wanted a supermajority. That seems to be the aim. Okay, why a supermajority? Because they can override any veto the governor imposes on any activity of the legislature. So this takes a very, very important role of the governor, and makes it irrelevant. You know, this this function of the governor, you know, right now, we don't have a coequal branches of government because the legislature can override the governor and may make him and in that particular decision, irrelevant.
Katie Olmsted 4:50
And more than that, it makes them so they're not answerable to the voters. It makes it so that the primaries are the competitive races and they are answerable to the most extreme parts of their party, on both sides. And the November election is more or less a done deal based on these gerrymandered maps, which as you've pointed out, have been designed, accepted by politicians who are trying to hold onto their power. How would Citizens Not Politicians, this citizen led ballot initiative, if approved by the voters in November, how would that change it?
Justice Yvette McGee Brown 7:53
Well, one thing it would do is it would make sure that people have a voice, right? So you'd have independent people, you'd remove the politicians, and you'd have an independent commission, five Democrats, five Republicans, five Independents, people who look at the state the way we have tried so many times - in 1950, or 55, we amended the constitution. We did again, in 2015, and 2018. We've tried so hard as citizens to be proscriptive about how you draw lines, because it's supposed to be the fight for ideals, right, not making sure your party gets the majority. And so what this would do is take the politics out of it, take the elected officials out of it, who have a vested interest in the maps, and have people look at how do we keep communities together? People self select where they live. And so by having this independent commission, they're going to be looking at drawing maps that keep communities together, so that then politicians can have a fight for ideals. I mean, that verbally, not literally, but a fight for ideas. And so whoever has the better ideals will win the election. And to your point earlier, it won't be just a primary contest, but it will be a contest between selected party representatives in the general election. And I think that's how democracy thrives. And if you look at it just on a broader scale across the country, we'll get away from this polarization where both parties are going to their flanks, and you'll get where I think most Americans are, in the middle. They're center left or center right. And so we should have politicians really asserting positions and have the public choose.
Katie Olmsted 8:29
What strikes me is that, on this call, Chief, you are a registered Republican; Yvette you are a registered Democrat. I'm not a registered anything, because I don't - don't tell anyone, I don't vote in primaries. I know, I know. It's terrible. Sidenote, I used to be a reporter. And I didn't want that to be something that's public knowledge. So I didn't register.
Chief Justice Maureen O'Connor 10:35
Right.
Katie Olmsted 10:36
But I do vote in the November election as everybody should. So these are three people with different political ideologies. I would say I'm I'm pretty right there in the center on most things. And this is something that all three of us care very deeply about, because we care about Ohio more than anything. Why is this something that that really crosses those those political lines like this? And why is it something that's so important to you?
Chief Justice Maureen O'Connor 11:01
Well, you know, I've been a public servant for many years. When I retired, somebody did the math, and they came up with the statement that I'm the longest serving elected woman in the history of Ohio, which only means I'm old, that's all that means. But you know, I've seen the government in action as a public servant, an elected official, I've held had the privilege of holding, you know, many jobs, elected jobs: I was county prosecutor, I was judge, I was, you know, Supreme Court, and then Supreme Court Justice, I was lieutenant governor, etc. I've done some really important things in my career, never alone, always with colleagues and, and fabulous staff, that were able to get these good things done. And I'll go on record as saying when this constitutional amendment passes, this will be the most important thing I've ever done in my career. So to put that in perspective, this will be at the top of a long list of things that I have done as a public servant, trying to make Ohio a better place, a fairer place, and make Ohio government respond to its citizens and not its politicians. And we're gonna I hopefully get into a lot of the features of this new amendment, and and give your membership, you know, facts that they're going to be able to reflect upon, and we'll be, I think, very convincing to them. But I'm gonna let my good friend Yvette talk about her perspective here.
Justice Yvette McGee Brown 12:53
And I do want to add to that. I mean, I think it's important for your listeners to know that the Chief could have just retired, right? She didn't have to do this. She's not getting paid to do this. And when she talks about her career, I mean, it would be easy just to ride off into the sunset and to leave this to somebody else, make it somebody else's problem. But each of us have a responsibility, right? If we want to see this democracy continue, we each have a responsibility to do our part. And that's really what she's doing. I mean, what's really important to me, as I grew up in the state, like the chief, I mean, I have watched us go from a state where we were part of the national conversation, because we were a purple state. We would go Republican, we would go Democrat, because we really were a state that one of my friends used to say that if you took America and shrink wrapped it, you'd get Ohio, right? We have so many different regions of this state. And that's what made it so special. And I don't even recognize the policies that keep being put forth by our legislature that go against what the majority of Ohioans say they want. And so it really is with the Chief's leadership and opportunity to say, look, this is the state we want our children to live. And I have three adult children. None of them live in Ohio. And so we want a state where it's a vibrant economy, because young people want to be here and raise their families. It's important.
Katie Olmsted 14:18
I want to talk a little bit about that whole purple state thing. I think when we talk about the the gerrymandering issue, people are like, Oh, the the Democrats just don't want to admit that there's more Republicans in our state. But looking - when you do the breakdowns of how we vote in a statewide election, what we have is, yeah, we do have slightly, obviously we have a Republican governor we have we have better Republican results on that side for those statewide elections, but not by the supermajority amount and that's really what points to the gerrymandering issue. I think it's something like 54 to 45 or something like that. I'm sure you know the stats better than I do.
Justice Yvette McGee Brown 14:57
It's 57-43.
Katie Olmsted 14:59
It's 57-43, but our legislature is like 1000 to 1.
Justice Yvette McGee Brown 15:08
It's super majority. Yeah.
Chief Justice Maureen O'Connor 15:10
Yeah. And that that's the that's the, you know, the golden ring is to get that super majority because, I'm going to quote the president of the Senate, Matt Hoffman, who when the supermajority was created, he was interviewed as President of the Senate, and he said, "We can pretty much do whatever we want." Who's we? The super majority, and and they're representing "we" - their interests, not - we can represent the citizens of Ohio, all citizens of Ohio, we can make policies and compromise with the opponent, you know, opposite party and come up with reasoned solutions, none of that. It's "we." In other words, you know, we're, 'we can steamroll anything we want.' And all we have to do is keep the Republicans together. Well, that hasn't been working out too well, you know, recently. But I want to I want to point out something because your membership, being as astute as they are, and being, you know, participants in elections will say, Wait a second, didn't we fix this in 2015 and 2018? Because I remember that there were some constitutional amendments that it was going to address gerrymandering? Well, first of all, let me explain the difference between those amendments and this amendment. Those amendments were drafted by the legislature, they were not citizen initiative initiated constitutional amendments. They were they were drafted by politicians. And the difference is the the amendment that we're, you know, going - that we are touting here that we, you know, want your your folks to vote for in November, is citizen initiated. No politicians. And, you know, the creation of this, I was intimately involved in it from start to when it was a finished product. It was done totally mindful of the participation of citizens. And you'll see in reading it, the detail that has gone in and Yvette used the word earlier proscribed, and that's how I would classify this new amendment is proscribed. It is precise. You're going to hear criticism that this is 'too complicated. Nobody understands what it's about!' excetera. And, and those are the words of one of the legislators that sells insurance for for a living. You know, I had to laugh, I had to laugh at that, you know. Okay, so your insurance policies, you know, matched up about my, you know, our amendment, I'll take that any day and debate the the ability to understand. But okay, let me let me just get back to the failings of the 2015 and 2018 amendment. It looked good on paper. But the scrutiny was not deep enough, because the one thing that they had embedded in that was the the redistricting commission, having that, you know, great amount of authority here. And they were the ones who drew the maps, okay. And they also had a provision in those amendments that the Supreme Court could not draw the maps. In other words, every time there was a conflict, the Supreme Court couldn't do like Supreme Court's do around the country, hire map makers and get it done, you know, in front of a neutral body. No. That they proscribe that, you know, you can't do that. So I compared this amendment, these amendments, 2015 2018, they had a Trojan horse, and that Trojan horse was the redistricting commission. So they knew they would get on the inside, and they would do the work that was going to be so beneficial to the the, you know, powers that be in maintaining the powers that be, and increasing the number and thereby increasing the authority and minimizing the you know, the authority of the other party. And there's another thing that I think is really important for your membership because many of them may be like you, they don't vote in primaries. They're general election voters because they're not-
Chief Justice Maureen O'Connor 15:16
I vote on levies, I promise!
Chief Justice Maureen O'Connor 15:50
Right. Non - on on a ballot issue.
Katie Olmsted 19:55
I'm nonpartisan
Chief Justice Maureen O'Connor 19:56
Yeah, yeah, nonpartisan issues, of course. But you're probably like 75% of all Ohioans, you know, are independent voters. So 75% of Ohioans don't vote in primaries. So you know, a very small percentage of registered voters, they're voted, you know, the registered either party, they're the ones that are making the decisions. They're calling the shots. They're telling, you know, the majority of the voters in Ohio, okay, show up in in November, and we've already made our choice for you. And that wonder why voters are disengaged, no wonder why they're not interested. Okay, this amendment is not going to change the primary structure, or a primary and the general election. That's for another day. But that very well could happen, where we have open primaries, where it doesn't matter if you're an R or D. And it doesn't matter if you're registered R or D, your independents can vote in these primaries, and the two top vote getters would face off in November, whether there are two Ds two Rs, or one of each, or, you know, Independents. That's to me, you know, a true process that would reflect the makeup of Ohio. Another thing and then I'll be quiet an Yvette can you know, depart her wisdom. Um, one of the criteria, one of the necessities, one of the, you know, commandments that are in this amendment, is everything will be done in front of a camera. And I mean that. They're gonna hold hearings, when I say they, the Commission, the selection of the commission members are going to be done in front of a camera by four retired judges who are selected by the ballot board, two Rs; two Ds. They will select four independent judges who are not politically active, and they will, you know, are in the process, then vetting and selecting these 15 members. And then those 15 members will go around the state, and they will hold hearings to listen to the citizens of Ohio. Why their community should be kept together, not divided. In you know, their community could be a school district, and that's in the Constitution. You know, we use that as an example. You could be a school district could be a village, it couldn't be, you know, they establish what their community of interest is, and why they shouldn't be divided. And that's evidence for the for this commission to take into consideration. They then you know, take care of all the evidence into consideration, instruct the mapmakers, and those mapmakers are going to be drawing maps in public, you know, in front of a camera. I don't know if people are going to use it as a cure for insomnia, or whether they're going to, you know - but it's going to be in front of the public. Not like backroom deals. And I mean that, you know, the last go round in 2022, there were maps that were whipped out at the very end. They said, 'This is the map we're going to use.' The Democrats hadn't even seen the maps, you know. But this will, this is going to fix it. You know, that's all I have to say this is going to fix it.
Justice Yvette McGee Brown 23:41
And it's an important thing, too, is that the people who are selected for the commission can't have been lobbyists. They can't be former elected officials. Their spouses or significant others can't be lobbyists or former elected officials. So we are trying to get ordinary citizens. And as Maureen said, we're moving them proscriptive, you know, giving them an out and proscribing very specifically what can and cannot be done. A couple of things. Your your listeners may hear from our opposition, including the Senate President, that he wants to protect Black people, which was shocking to me. I've never heard him utter those words before this amendment. But he contends that this independent district somehow will hurt Black people. And he uses the Michigan independent commission as an example. First of all, that's ridiculous because this amendment requires keeping communities together so that we don't have the situation we had in South Carolina, where the legislature can just simply write out a Black congressional district, so don't fall for that. And secondly, for the Senate President to say he cares so much about Black people, he has politicized the Supreme Court by getting legislation passed and puts a Republican or Democrat moniker before their name on the ballot in an attempt to remove any Democrats who are Supreme Court Justices. So don't fall for this, we have one black person on the Supreme Court that just grates on the supermajority that they want to try and remove her and any other person that might be a Democrat. That is not democracy. Let these candidates be impartial arbiters of cases and stand or fall on the merits of their decision, not whether they have an R or a D behind their name. So please don't fall for that. It is just a red herring, the senate president is not trying to protect Black people.
Chief Justice Maureen O'Connor 25:43
If you add another important feature to this, and this is how detailed this amendment is: Right now, when they start to draw a map, they look at the map and they look at the districts in place. And they look at the addresses of the current office holders. And then they create the districts around those addresses. Why? Because they have to make sure that their loyal membership is maintained. And both D's and R's do this. Okay. The Ds, even though they're in the minority is very interesting, very concerned about maintaining their particular address as being you know, the the, within their district and that district being drawn around their addresses. This amendment says they cannot consider the addresses of current office holders, which that in itself is going to level some playing field right there. That that's that is, you know, I'm very proud of that we came up with that. And all of the, all of the criteria that is in directives that are in the you know, this amendment. You know, I have a statistic here, when we were talking about the, according to Secretary of State, there are about 7.9 million registered voters in Ohio. That's probably before the purge. Okay. But more than 76% of them are registered Independents. There, they don't have a voice. If I were an independent, I'd be jumping up and down about how this is an old fashioned system that doesn't work. Okay, I'm off topic, because that's not going to, I don't want to really focus on that problem. It can be fixed. But that's for another battle. But right now, we got to work with the system we have, and what is, you know, important - I mean, I can't emphasize how important this is to your membership - No matter your politics, no matter what you think about the top of the ticket.... And I know people are not excited about the top of the ticket in either, you know, it's uninspiring, let's put it that way...But there are other races that where - I want you to vote at the top of the ticket, of course - but there are other races that are, you know, directly impact the quality of life here in Ohio. We've got a Senate race, you know, an incumbent is running for reelection, an incumbent with a record. All right. We've got this constitutional amendment. And I think there's nothing more important to vote on, on the ballot than this constitutional amendment. Whether you're an R or a D, in the middle, and you want good government, you want a government in Ohio which creates an atmosphere of inclusiveness, an atmosphere of solving problems, because that's their job. And I always say we, as public servants, have no purpose to exist, but to solve problems for people who cannot solve them for themselves. That's why courts, you know, we're invented. Nobody comes to the court because they're happy to be there. They got a problem and they need the court to solve it. So that's what we do. We solve problems. The legislature is the same way. The community has a problem, they go to the legislature, they say, Hey, look at this, how are you going to solve it for us? Instead of a lobbyist going to the legislature, you know, picking out their favorite legislators and saying, Hey, here's what here's what, here's what the organization that I represent, would like to see put into statute. And by the way, I just happened to have that statute, a sample of what that statute would be. You know, we gotta we got to stop that because that's not that's not good for Ohio.
Justice Yvette McGee Brown 25:52
Right.
Chief Justice Maureen O'Connor 25:54
We're already way over time, but in in the last negative seconds that I have, what is the biggest - if you if you could distill it down into the one thing where you're like, if you knew this about this amendment, this would be a no brainer, what would you tell public educators in Ohio?
Justice Yvette McGee Brown 30:23
That this amendment will ensure that where you live, the community that you're part of is the the district you will get to vote in. And that's what you should be excited about, you won't have a district that goes from like a very rural area all the way down to Athens, Ohio, a very liberal area area. So what you should be excited about, it's like having schools that your children can walk to. It is being able to vote with your friends and neighbors, and having representatives you will have access to because you know what? They'll care about your opinion. That's the biggest thing, like what so many of our citizens don't have the right to access their elected representatives, because they don't care what we think. We saw that in August, we saw that in November. This is what should excite you that you get to access and have a voice with your elected representatives.
Chief Justice Maureen O'Connor 31:17
And I couldn't agree more that, you know, you're gonna know your representative. How about that? You know, how many how many folks, you know, could say that I know who my Congressperson is, or I know who represents me in the Senate district or the House district, and I feel like I can approach them. Now that that doesn't happen. They're faceless. And and in many ways, the citizens are faceless to them, you know. And so now, just briefly, I'm going to say that there's some legislation being proposed right now that they want to forbid a non-United States citizen from giving money to an initiative that is the people's initiative. Okay, that's a very specific thing that will be on the ballot. And it's a very limited because it's not on the ballot every year, when a citizens initiative gets on the ballot, which takes a heck of a lot of work and money to get it there, they want to, they want to make sure that nobody who has an interest in democracy that lives outside of the country and is not a United States citizen, cannot give money. Now, it's okay if they give money to the governor. It's okay if they give money to the legislators. Okay? It's okay if they give money to the Republican Party or the democratic, but they can't give it for a ballot initiative that is going to that is a neutral, it's a neutral thing. Now, here's that first of all, I think that's against the Citizens United, which said, you know, giving money is free speech. Okay. So does that mean free speech only for registered voters in, but but okay, the citizens? That's not what I think free speech is all about? And so I think that's going to be a problem for them if it passes. And it's, democracy doesn't stop at the shores of the United States. Democracy is a world concept. Yes, they look to America as the beacon of democracy. Our record isn't very good, you know, in last couple years, well, more than a couple years. But we'll prevail. Democracy will prevail, the citizens will make sure that democracy prevails, because this is the vehicle to do it. But trying to limit the resources that we can use to get our word out, to get this - you know, is clearly directed at Citizens, Not Politicians. You know, it's laughable for them to say anything other than that. But this is another example, to stymie the voice of the citizens of Ohio. And it's nothing more, it's blatant. I'm going to be really interested to see if it passes today or tomorrow whenever it's going to come up for a vote. Because it's shameful. It is. People who vote for this, people who introduce it should be ashamed of themselves.
Justice Yvette McGee Brown 34:39
And just on that note, Katie, and maybe as background for your listeners, to get an amendment to the ballot to get a constitutional amendment to the ballot, you have to get signatures from 44 counties. It is a huge effort. This is not something that you just do on a whim. The chief and I have talked to so many people across the state who are standing out at shopping malls and on street corners, collecting signatures. It is a huge effort. And people wouldn't do this if they didn't really care about democracy in Ohio. And I think that's important for people to know. 44 counties you have to get signatures from, and there's like over what is it 400,000 signatures, it's some ridiculous amount. And so we have have to do that every time. And it's important for people to understand that and to look at what when people got together, we prevented the legislature from taking our majority rules rights away, from taking away women's right to determine their own health care. This is another way of taking power and putting it in the hands of citizens, not politicians.
Katie Olmsted 35:49
And I feel like - and again, we're so far over on time, I'm just going to keep going - When they try to limit what can go on the ballot, it is, it takes away the agency and the intelligence of humans, like just because it's on the ballot doesn't mean it passes, what you're afraid of is that actual citizens, not the politicians, are going to be able to make a decision. And that will actually reflect what the citizens of this state want. And if you're so afraid of that thing passing, then maybe you should be a little bit more responsive to the citizens in the first place.
Chief Justice Maureen O'Connor 36:24
That's exactly right. And that's the reason that citizens initiatives have to happen. Ohio was blessed to be one of the 18 states, I believe in this in this country that has the ability for citizens to do exactly what the citizens of Ohio have done, create an amendment, get over 414,000 signatures, valid signatures and turn those in and then campaign to get this message out. Okay, that's that's a huge undertaking. Since 1912, when the progressives, you know, had created this constitutional amendment, then it became effective in 1913. Because the citizens voted it in. The citizens of Ohio back then said yes, we want to have this power. Well we've had this power ever since there's been over 70 citizens initiatives placed on the ballot since then, that's not a whole lot since 1913. Okay? And only in the 20s, maybe 20 to 25 initiatives have passed. So Ohioans are discerning. Ohioans scrutinized these things, and they will reject them if they don't think that they're, they're valid. So the fact that the legislature is trying to undermine this constitutional amendment is, quite frankly, undemocratic. And it's just an assault on the voice of the collective voice of the people of Ohio.
Justice Yvette McGee Brown 38:06
Yeah, and one last fact: 39 states in this country, 39 states, have one party rule. That doesn't happen by accident. That is because of gerrymandering, to have 39 of 50 states where there is one party rule is not how democracy survives. The country, I mean, we are a diverse country, and everybody needs to have their voice heard. And I think Ohio can show the way on how this can happen.
Chief Justice Maureen O'Connor 38:34
Exactly. All eyes are on Ohio, this this election cycle. You know, we're going to be an inspiration to other states, just as Michigan was. And you know, when we were drafting the amendment, we looked at Michigan, we took you know, the a lot of good things, you know. We wanted to make sure Ohio had those. And then we also made made it Ohio. We made it our own here. We didn't copy anything, you know, we tailored it to the needs of Ohio. So don't let anybody tell you that this was created by a bunch of liberal folks that want to impose Democratic rule on the state of Ohio not true. We know. We know that the is gonna be a split somewhere from you know, 52 to 54% Republican in Ohio and then the balance you know, Democrat. But let's keep in mind that was 76% that are neither. You know, people talk like the DS in the hours are the most important voters in the state. No, everybody's important. Let's make laws and you know for everybody in you know what Mr. Legislator or Ms. Legislator, I didn't vote for you, but you still represent me.
Justice Yvette McGee Brown 40:03
Yes.
Chief Justice Maureen O'Connor 40:04
How about that?
Justice Yvette McGee Brown 40:05
Yes.
Katie Olmsted 40:06
Oh, like citizens, not politicians being the important thing? Fascinating. Well, Chief, Yvette, thank you so, so much for helping us understand this issue and for your advocacy and for your passion. It is so, so important that people understand what's happening, they get involved. And when this gets to the ballot in November, because I truly believe that it will, it seems like it is really on the right trajectory to get there, that they show up and they vote.
Justice Yvette McGee Brown 40:36
Yes.
Chief Justice Maureen O'Connor 40:37
Yes. Thank you, thank you for the ability to explain this to your audience, who are intelligent, involved. They take their responsibility as educators to heart, they are educating themselves so hopefully they can educate their sphere of influence friends, family, etc.
Justice Yvette McGee Brown 41:04
And thank you. Yeah, because my my career is possible because of a public educator, many of them. So I'm a Columbus City Schools kids, so huge thank you to all of you out there for what you do every day to educate the next generation of leaders.
Katie Olmsted 41:21
Former Justice Yvette McGee brown hit it right on the head there: Public school educators work hard every day to educate the next generation of leaders. And public school educators really have the power to choose the next group of leaders who will be making public education policy for our state. Elections matter. Your involvement in this process matters. And in this season four finale of Public Education Matters, Ohio Education Association, President Scott DiMauro joins us to explain.
Katie Olmsted 41:56
Scott DiMauro, OEA President, thank you so much for sitting down with us. We just heard about the Citizens not Politicians campaign. Let's start by talking a little bit more about why that is such an important issue to OEA, especially.
Scott DiMauro 42:10
Well when we look at the reality facing our educators, and you know, the people who work so hard all across the state every single day trying to create conditions for learning and to give students the instruction and the support that they need to be successful, a lot of times, we don't think about it, but almost everything that happens in our classrooms is affected or influenced or directed by politicians in Washington, DC, or politicians in Columbus. And so when you have people who get elected to office, who feel no responsibility to their voters, because they're elected in gerrymandered districts, then we get a lot of bad public policy. When when I talk to our members, there is nothing that drives them nuts more than out-of-touch politicians making decisions about education without having a clue about what happens in our public schools. So that's why we are fully supporting the Citizens Not Politicians amendment because we have to reform our system. Our democracy in the state is broken. And it's broken largely because of gerrymandering. And so this is something that I think will, if we improve the way we elect people to office, then we're going to get better politicians in those positions. We're going to get better public policy for our students and for members that we serve.
Katie Olmsted 43:39
And there are a lot of good leaders who are running. If we can, you know, help support them and propel them to office or to reelection - Sherrod Brown comes to mind - he is a real champion for public education.
Scott DiMauro 43:54
He absolutely is and that is one of our top priorities going into November, is to help spread the word among educators across Ohio, about what an incredible champion of public education Sherrod Brown has been throughout his career in public life, and especially as a member of the Senate. You know, he is one of the foremost advocates for organized labor. He is one of the foremost advocates for pension security. In fact, in Congress after Congress after Congress, he has been the primary sponsor of the bill to repeal the harmful Social Security penalties, GPO and WEP. He's been a foremost champion of public education. And in fact, he's introduced legislation and passed legislation to hold charter schools accountable. And to make sure that we're keeping public dollars invested in our public schools and investing in things like community learning centers so that our students have what they need to succeed not just in the classroom, but in terms of non academic supports as well. I could go on and on about all the great things that he's done. But, but I think more than anything else, Sherrod Brown is an incredibly strong listener.
Katie Olmsted 45:08
I was just going to say, I met him at the at the spring RA. This was the first time I've ever seen him in person. And I walked away saying, I can confirm he's a very good human. Like, that's my big takeaway. He's a good human and a good person.
Scott DiMauro 45:22
Yeah, I can't tell you how many times I've been in rooms, where Sherrod goes around - In fact, I remember a few years ago when he was running for office, and we had a screening that we were doing, an interview committee, and we had about 20 people from around the state. And half of the entire hour that was devoted to this interview was taken up with Sherrod asking each individual around the table to share their story, why they were there. And he knew something about every single one of their communities. And in a lot of cases, he knew a lot of the same people that they knew. But it's those connections, those relationships that really drive his decision making. You know, he's not there to try to gain glory and attention. He's there really to make a difference. And he's been doing that and he's been a champion for us. So yeah, we need more people like Sherrod. We need -and control of the Senate is up for grabs, and there is no more important Senate race than the race in Ohio this year. So we know that that is so critically important. But then we're also paying attention to a lot of other races. We're watching state legislative races where we know we have to elect Democrats and Republicans who share our values and share support for public education. We're paying attention to the congressional races especially in in closely contested races in the Akron area, in the Toledo area, and in the Cincinnati area, where we have a chance to return Emilia Sykes and Marcy Kaptur and Greg Landsman to Congress, we have to watch the Supreme Court. One of the reasons that we're in the fix that we're in with this terrible gerrymandering system is that the Supreme Court has been unwilling to require the legislature to follow the Constitution. And so we have an opportunity to elect a supreme court that's going to be much more responsive to the law and the people of Ohio. All of these things are important, and of course, passing ballot measures that are going to move us forward as a state as well.
Katie Olmsted 47:31
And that's where the united voice of educators can make a huge difference. We are talking nearly 120,000 people who can come together, who, just like Sherrod Brown are not in this for the glory, they're in it for making a difference in their community. And together, we can make a difference for our students through these elections.
Scott DiMauro 47:51
Well, let me let me put that 120,000 into some context for you. So 120,000 Members of OEA. That means one out of every 100 Ohioans is a member of the Ohio Education Association. But then when you think about the connection that our members have with their families, the connection that our members have with their neighbors, the connection that our members have with their students, particularly maybe their former students, the parents or their former students. When we think about the fact that our members are leaders in their communities in all 88 counties across Ohio, it is absolutely amazing to think about the power that we have to chart the direction of this state. If every single OEA member took the opportunity to share their story with their friends, their family, their neighbors, and to talk about how these decisions that voters are going to be making in November, connect to their lives, Sherrod is going to win in an absolute landslide. And we're gonna elect a lot more pro-public education candidates up and down the ballot.
Katie Olmsted 49:04
And every day will be better for our public school students. And that's why we're here.
Scott DiMauro 49:09
Absolutely.
Katie Olmsted 49:13
Well, that does it for this season of Public Education Matters. We'll see you back here for season five this fall. In the meantime, please let me know what you think. You can email me at educationmatters@ohea.org to share your thoughts on the podcast, what you'd like to see done differently in the future, and what do you like to hear about when we return for the new season and a few months. You can also keep up with OEA anytime on social media. We're @OhioEA on Facebook, X, and Instagram. Until next time, stay well. And remember in Ohio, public education matters.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai