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A podcast from Teachers College, Columbia University about play and pop culture. Professors Haeny Yoon and Nathan Holbert take play seriously. They talk with educators, parents and kids about how they play in their work and their lives, and why play matters.
The views expressed in this podcast are solely those of the speaker to whom they are attributed. They do not necessarily reflect the views of the faculty, administration, staff or Trustees either of Teachers College or of Columbia University.
Haeny Yoon:
Welcome to our special Halloween episode of Pop Off. If you haven't been joining us recently, we have a new segment from Pop and Play, where we take a few minutes to chat about education, play, pop culture that's in the public conversation, and what is more public in the conversation now than Halloween?
Nathan Holbert:
Yeah, so this week, we wanted to talk about Halloween, because like you said, that's what everybody's talking about. Everybody's changing their handles on social media. The kids and I are watching scary movies, and we thought we should maybe get dressed up for Halloween.
Haeny Yoon:
Yeah.
Nathan Holbert:
Tell us about what you're wearing.
Haeny Yoon:
I had to be a little practical with my Halloween costume today, because today, we're filming a week before Halloween, and I had to think of something that I could put on, pop on, but then also pop off.
Nathan Holbert:
Pop right back off.
Haeny Yoon:
So that I can do my meetings, and teach class and all of that, even though I think my class would think this is delightful. I decided that the best idea I could come up with last night as I was in bed sleeping was a TC super fan. The way that this came about is that I was telling you that I think I'm going to come dressed up as an Eras Tour concert goer, because I had enough sweatshirts and gear and merch to do that, and it would've been popping. But you relentlessly made fun of me.
Nathan Holbert:
I believe I said, "How is that a costume? That's just what you are."
Haeny Yoon:
Okay, not cool.
Nathan Holbert:
But true.
Haeny Yoon:
I didn't do it, so I was like, "Fine," but I will take that spirit and dress myself in TC merch.
Nathan Holbert:
Come on.
Haeny Yoon:
Do you see this? This is my Teacher's College tote bag.
Nathan Holbert:
You're holding up a Teacher's College tote right now, for those not on the YouTube.
Haeny Yoon:
Yes, but join us on YouTube, because it's pretty cool this time. That's it.
Nathan Holbert:
Stickers galore.
Haeny Yoon:
I've got stickers galore on my shirt that I found in my tote bag.
Nathan Holbert:
I like that one of the stickers is a Teacher's College tote bag.
Haeny Yoon:
Yes. If you can't see this, it's a Teacher's College tote bag.
Nathan Holbert:
That's hilarious.
Haeny Yoon:
I'm wearing my Digital Futures Institute sweatshirt that's accompanied by a Teacher's College pin.
Nathan Holbert:
1887.
Haeny Yoon:
Yes. And then, I also have my Teacher's College hat. Is that all? Oh, and then, don't forget-
Nathan Holbert:
You've got your coffee mug, which is actually a handy coffee mug.
Haeny Yoon:
This is a great coffee mug.
Nathan Holbert:
I occasionally use mine to have a nice cold beer on the stoop next to my apartment.
Haeny Yoon:
Excellent.
Nathan Holbert:
Which is quite nice.
Haeny Yoon:
Sounds like a great idea. Keep it coming, Tom.
Nathan Holbert:
I don't carry the teddy bear, or the cat lying around.
Haeny Yoon:
It's a lion.
Nathan Holbert:
It's a lion.
Haeny Yoon:
Not a bear.
Nathan Holbert:
I know, it's not a lion.
Haeny Yoon:
Anyway, I'm dressed as a super fan.
Nathan Holbert:
You're crushing it.
Haeny Yoon:
I'm crushing it.
Nathan Holbert:
Definitely a super fan. I do wonder how much of that swag was it swag you had to go get, as opposed to swag you just already had around the house.
Haeny Yoon:
I already have it. I have so much more. How about you? What's your costume?
Nathan Holbert:
What, you can't tell?
Haeny Yoon:
I can tell, but tell us about it. What are you wearing?
Nathan Holbert:
I am Bob from Bob's Burgers.
Haeny Yoon:
Excellent.
Nathan Holbert:
Longtime listeners of the show will know that we've mentioned this costume before, and I, in a panic, was trying to find a costume that I could wear today, and this is what I found. I have my apron that I have drawn an animation style pocket that is similar to the one Bob wears. And then otherwise, it's just sweatpants and a T-shirt, which is what I wear anyway.
Haeny Yoon:
And also, socks, Bob's Burgers socks.
Nathan Holbert:
Yes, the socks. I don't think I want to stick my feet in the air. Those are actually just what I wear.
Haeny Yoon:
I know. I was going to say, for the record, I've seen you wear it at faculty meeting.
Nathan Holbert:
Those are my dress socks.
Haeny Yoon:
Yes. I would look down at a very serious moment at faculty meeting and be like, "What kind of socks are you wearing right now?"
Nathan Holbert:
Yeah, just the normal thing. I also mustached it up a bit.
Haeny Yoon:
I will say, I respect the mustache a lot, because you did that in one minute or less, and I'm very impressed by the accuracy of it.
Nathan Holbert:
I did not mustache to the formal event we had earlier. That would've been interesting. Since costumes are the central theme here, the central focus of Halloween, I'm curious if you have any strong opinions about Halloween costumes? Are there costumes that you like? Are there costumes you hate? What's your vibe with costumes?
Haeny Yoon:
We are popping off on Halloween, let's be clear, not because we don't like it, but we have a lot of strong opinions about it.
Nathan Holbert:
I don't have that many strong opinions. You do, though.
Haeny Yoon:
These strong opinions don't reflect any kind of reality, or are not necessarily all true.
Nathan Holbert:
That's just opinions.
Haeny Yoon:
It's just what we think, so don't take any offense to anything we're saying.
Nathan Holbert:
That's a great start, for the record. I'm really excited about what's going to come next.
Haeny Yoon:
I really don't like any costumes that start with sexy blank, like cat, witch, nurse, sexy teacher, sexy librarian. Just be those things.
Nathan Holbert:
What a hot take.
Haeny Yoon:
If you happen to be sexy, then cool.
Nathan Holbert:
Oh, okay.
Haeny Yoon:
I don't think you'll have to go the extra mile to add that in. It's a little bit of a lazy man's trick, I'm sorry. The saying, not the gender.
Nathan Holbert:
I thought about coming as sexy Bob, from Bob's Burgers, but I'm glad I didn't. I would've been shunned.
Haeny Yoon:
Yeah, then I would judge you harshly. What would you add to your costume to make it sexy?
Nathan Holbert:
Probably just would've worn the apron and nothing else.
Haeny Yoon:
See? Exactly, that's what I mean. That's not acceptable.
Nathan Holbert:
That's true. That would not have gone over.
Haeny Yoon:
Yeah. What about you? Is there a costume category that you don't like, a costume?
Nathan Holbert:
I don't think I have super strong opinions about it. Here's what I will say about costumes, and I'm going to say this, acknowledging that I'm also so incredibly wrong, but I really like it when people make costumes, or find things to cobble together to create a costume much more than I like it when they go buy a bag that is the costume thing. In reality I shouldn't care, but for some reason, I do. I'm wrong, but that is an opinion I have.
Haeny Yoon:
Same. I would say, have I maybe dressed up as sexy something? Maybe. I don't know.
Nathan Holbert:
Probably.
Haeny Yoon:
Don't take on any pictures from wherever.
Nathan Holbert:
You were 20 once. Still.
Haeny Yoon:
Still 21, yes. The costumes that I do like are clever, abstract ones. Let me tell you what I mean.
Nathan Holbert:
Yeah.
Haeny Yoon:
I was talking to our previous guest and friend of the pod, Ioana Literat, who is also going to be joining us this season, and she was telling me about a costume that her friend in college had, because we were brainstorming costumes. She was like, "Oh, you know what my friend did once? She put a whole bunch of sponges on her T-shirt, and she came as self-absorbed." I was like, "That is an amazing costume."
Nathan Holbert:
Concept costumes.
Haeny Yoon:
Oh my God, yes.
Nathan Holbert:
I love it.
Haeny Yoon:
Concept costumes.
Nathan Holbert:
Those are the best.
Haeny Yoon:
I should have prompted ChatGPT to do that, because then, I went to ChatGPT, and I was like, "Help me find a costume." I basically literally typed, "Here's the costume that I heard once, blah, blah, blah," and I typed it in, and then I said, "I want something like that. Give me some ideas." It listed off all these cheesy things that I found horrifying, and then I was like, "It's too cheesy, I don't like it. You did a bad job."
Nathan Holbert:
You chastised ChatGPT. Well done.
Haeny Yoon:
It to be edgier and wittier. And then, they gave me some more options, which you seemed to like. Tell me what your favorite one was.
Nathan Holbert:
Well, the one that you showed me was Ceiling fan, which essentially was dress like a cheerleader with ghost ceilings and stuff. I was like, "That's actually kind of humorous." Compared to the other options that you also showed me, this was way better.
Haeny Yoon:
That is true. ChatGPT was not great at doing this, but I could have prompted it better.
Nathan Holbert:
Here's what's important. Like I said, I don't actually care about costumes much. People that get really into Halloween, they're really into costumes, that's great, but I'm in it for the candy. For me, it's all about the candy. I want to have a bucket that I can eat for the next three, four months.
Haeny Yoon:
Three, four months.
Nathan Holbert:
Sometimes 11 months, and you're like, "Oh God, this candy is from last Halloween." That's what I really want. Tell me about for you... for me, it's all about the chocolates.
Haeny Yoon:
What kind of chocolates are your favorite?
Nathan Holbert:
I just love a good candy bar. Give me a bunch of Twix. I'll take some Milky Way, even. I'll take some peanut butter cups. It needs to be some good chocolate, though.
Haeny Yoon:
Yeah, I'm into the chocolate, too. I don't really like candy stuff. Well actually, I do like candy. I take that back.
Nathan Holbert:
Is there a Halloween candy that when you were a kid, when you got it in the bucket, you were just like, "Ugh, what are we doing here?"
Haeny Yoon:
Besides whatever that thing is gone?
Nathan Holbert:
Candy corn?
Haeny Yoon:
Candy corn.
Nathan Holbert:
Is that what you're trying to get to?
Haeny Yoon:
I think the thing that everybody says is candy corn, that is just a given.
Nathan Holbert:
Yeah.
Haeny Yoon:
Candy corn is just like-
Nathan Holbert:
No, it's dumb.
Haeny Yoon:
A corn-shaped piece of wax.
Nathan Holbert:
It's sugary wax, yeah.
Haeny Yoon:
Yeah, it's not candy. I feel like things that I usually hate... tell me what you usually hate.
Nathan Holbert:
Well, I hate the black licorice.
Haeny Yoon:
Oh, yeah, that's disgusting.
Nathan Holbert:
Forget that, that's nonsense. The other thing I would definitely say, especially when I was a kid, when you got the Mounds, you're just like-
Haeny Yoon:
What?
Nathan Holbert:
No, get that fake shaved coconut out of here.
Haeny Yoon:
I like Almond Joy and Mounds.
Nathan Holbert:
No, don't put that in my bag. That's not what I want.
Haeny Yoon:
What?
Nathan Holbert:
I'll trade you the Mounds for all your Twixes or something.
Haeny Yoon:
Oh my god.
Nathan Holbert:
That's mine.
Haeny Yoon:
Well, I also don't like concept candy, like toothbrushes and stuff.
Nathan Holbert:
Candy, that's the problem.
Haeny Yoon:
You know how there's houses that give a concept-
Nathan Holbert:
A pencil.
Haeny Yoon:
"Instead of making your teeth rot, you should really be taking care of them," stuff like that.
Nathan Holbert:
Or homemade stuff. On the one hand, wow, you really thought about this and you tried. On the other hand, that's not what I want.
Haeny Yoon:
Yeah, you just want manufactured candy.
Nathan Holbert:
I want manufactured, I want preferably large size.
Haeny Yoon:
Preferably large size leads me to my next question.
Nathan Holbert:
Okay.
Haeny Yoon:
What are the trick or treating do's and don'ts? The reason why I said preferred size is because I feel like there's a debate between fun size and full size. I went trick or treating with my niece, and there was a whole neighborhood where all they were giving out is full size candy bars.
Nathan Holbert:
Wow, that's huge.
Haeny Yoon:
It was very intense.
Nathan Holbert:
That's huge.
Haeny Yoon:
Not into it. I know people are going to disagree with me, but I feel like you should just give out fun sized chocolates, because they're getting a million of them.
Nathan Holbert:
Big Hershey is going to come after Haeny on this one.
Haeny Yoon:
Yeah, not cool.
Nathan Holbert:
No, when I was a kid, absolutely, that would've been the best. As an adult, that's too much.
Haeny Yoon:
It is, right?
Nathan Holbert:
That's too much. I don't want that.
Haeny Yoon:
I don't want that either.
Nathan Holbert:
But give it to kids, because that's really who this is for, and you're going to be the a hero.
Haeny Yoon:
Very excited.
Nathan Holbert:
The neighborhood hero. Okay, this is a little inside of it. We live in the same building, and our building has this Halloween candy giving moment, where kids start at the top of the building and they work their way down.
Haeny Yoon:
We also live in New York City, so that's how trick or treating sometimes works.
Nathan Holbert:
That's how trick or treating works in New York City. What's funny about this, this is the thing I love about this, we all go to roughly the same stores, buy the same bags of candy, and then, we just redistribute it, because my kids go get it from your house. It's hilarious. Important question now, last question perhaps is, scary movies. I am not a scary movie person, as I think we've discussed, but I make some exceptions during Halloween, because it's theming. I like to watch Christmas movies during Christmas time. I like to watch scary movies during Halloween. What are your favorite scary movies, and which are ones that you could do without?
Haeny Yoon:
Well, I have a favorite only because it relates very nerdily to my research.
Nathan Holbert:
Okay, sure.
Haeny Yoon:
A bunch of kids got me really into Michael Myers and Scream, in tandem to each other. I ended up watching all five Screams in the period of one month.
Nathan Holbert:
I don't think I knew there was five of them.
Haeny Yoon:
Yeah, there is. It is actually hilarious, and I started to appreciate horror movies for its satire.
Nathan Holbert:
Yeah, totally.
Haeny Yoon:
I feel like satirical stuff, it's hard to do it well, and I think they did it actually well. I also like really scary, old movies, because they seem more scary for some reason.
Nathan Holbert:
Like what, Rear Window?
Haeny Yoon:
Michael Myers was a scary one. Halloween was scary because it was shot with-
Nathan Holbert:
You said old, though.
Haeny Yoon:
Older films, sorry, older. Alfred Hitchcock-ish sort of things, those are just scary for some reason, because it's older, and it's black and white. I don't know what it is. I think it's the film quality.
Nathan Holbert:
I just want to point out that Alfred Hitchcock and Halloween, those are not the same era.
Haeny Yoon:
I know, but I'm talking about older. Oh my God, I don't like this. We've got Siskel and Ebert over here, trying to make fun of it. This is why I didn't wear my Eras tour costume.
Nathan Holbert:
The era you come from is such an enigma to our listeners.
Haeny Yoon:
How about you? What do you like?
Nathan Holbert:
Well, as I said, I don't like a lot of horror movies. Scream is a good call. That's very much our generation, a horror movie. You know what I love, though? When I was a kid, I don't know why I saw this when I was a kid, but I saw Poltergeist when I was a kid.
Haeny Yoon:
Oh my God, it's scary.
Nathan Holbert:
I loved those movies.
Haeny Yoon:
What?
Nathan Holbert:
Very scary, very scared of them, but also loved them to watch. I remember watching Poltergeist One and Poltergeist Two when I was a kid, a little kid, and being terrified of the TV, and also terrified of shag carpet. I don't know if you remember, there's that room that's like-
Haeny Yoon:
Yeah.
Nathan Holbert:
That's one that definitely, I have a soft spot for. And then, the one scary movie that I still am terrified of is, in the 80s, there was a TV It, a TV special It. It was a two-part, Stephen King's It.
Haeny Yoon:
I think I saw that, yeah.
Nathan Holbert:
It was a two-parter, and it came out when I was in fifth grade.
Haeny Yoon:
It's actually on Netflix now.
Nathan Holbert:
The old one, right? I never have seen the whole thing.
Haeny Yoon:
The eight hour version of it.
Nathan Holbert:
I watched the first half when I was a kid, and I was like, "No, never again." I never even watched the second half, because it was so scary.
Haeny Yoon:
That goes back to our first question about the costumes. Clowns, no. No clowns.
Nathan Holbert:
Clowns just in general.
Haeny Yoon:
Yeah, scary.
Nathan Holbert:
No, we're not doing clowns.
Haeny Yoon:
This is not for Halloween. Don't scare us. Anyway, I think that's the end of our Halloween Pop Off.
Nathan Holbert:
Happy Halloween.
Haeny Yoon:
Okay, bye.
Nathan Holbert:
Before we leave though, we do want to remind you all, we have a survey out there that you can find in the show notes. It would take you about a minute or so, fill that out, let us know what you like about the show. Let us know what things you'd like to hear about, some guests you'd be interested in hearing from, and take care of that. Also, if you like the episode, share it with a friend, subscribe, maybe even leave a little review for us, so we can get more listeners.
Haeny Yoon:
Yeah, and spread the word and follow us on Instagram at Pop and Play Pod. Until next time.