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"We're going to embark on a quest, like going Into The Woods! To find not 'Stephen Sondheim' - but Steve. And share what a wonderful human being he was with the world."
– Peter E. Jones
"I think because one knew that Steve overcame so much in his youth, and then wrote so brilliantly and beautifully and wittily, and wickedly... it made me cry for so many reasons." – Dame Julie Andrews
Made by Steve's friends, with Steve friends.
LOVING YOU THE UNTOLD SONDHEIM Episode 01 Something's Coming
[00:00:00] Newscasters:Stephen Sondheim, a daring and dazzling musical theater icon. The American composer and lyricist shaped the musical art form with his wise witty ethics sometimes. Sondheim's sophistication and brilliance made him an icon. A Broadway theater was named after him. A New York magazine cover asked is Sondheim God? Sondheim was an undisputed genius who commanded a godlike. Each of his show sounds and feels completely different while still bearing his hallmark. His shows boasted an audacity, complexity, and linguistic dexterity that few of his peers could rival. The Guardian newspaper once offered this question: 'Is Stephen Sondheim the Shakespeare of Musical Theater? Mr. Sondheim said he never wrote down to his public and mistrusted music that he found too easy. For all the felicitousness of his work as a lyricist, he saw himself as a composer. In truth, not only was he both, the combination catapulted him into a league of his own. Sondheim received eight Tony Awards as well as the Puliter Prize, Academy Award, eight Grammy Awards, an Olivier Award, Kennedy Center Honors and the Presidential Medal of Freedom. Barack Obama said, 'Sondheim reinvented the American musical.
His greatest hits aren't tunes you can hum. They're reflections on roads we didn't take and wishes gone wrong. Relationships so frayed and fractured, there's nothing left to do but send in the clowns.
[00:01:53] Martin Milnes: Once upon a time, there lived on opposite sides of the Atlantic, two close friends of a Broadway giant: Stephen Sondheim. One friend was in fact Sondheim's, former partner and first love, Peter E. Jones, affectionately dubbed by Steve as PJ. For 30 years, first as lover and then companion. PJ remained at Steve's side as his lifelong trusted ally.
[00:02:21] Peter E Jones: Often the best times we had were when we were on an airplane getting ready to go on a trip. We had this little tradition where we would order a glass of champagne and toast each other. Martin Milnes: The second Sondheim friend was me, an English writer and performer named Martin Milnes. Steve introduced me to PJ and was tickled at a beautiful friendship developed between us Amigos together, PJ and I were privileged to know Steve, the man behind the myth.
Peter E Jones: He would talk to me about you with again, that tickled feeling. I keep saying that word tickled because it seemed to be the feeling I got from him when he would talk about you, so you had something special that he, I think, really needed at that time.
Martin Milnes: For 70 years, the world knew the public face of Sondheim, but what about the Steve, which only his friends got to see? Many people think they know who Sondheim was. Many people believe they know, but only those closest to Steve can really paint an accurate portrait, and even then their experiences can be at odds.
[00:03:32] Lin-Manuel Miranda: Steve's our encourager-in-chief and has been for generations.
[00:03:37] Patti LuPone: Why did you do that? Why? 'Cause you scared the shit out of me.
You hurt me. And if I didn't have as much experience as I have in this business with tyrants like you, I, I would've fallen apart.
[00:03:51] Martin Milnes: So PJ and I decided to make a podcast, bringing together those who truly knew and loved Steve sharing for the first time ever. Our friend, as we all knew him.
[00:04:05] Bernadette Peters: to have him as a friend, is just, he was just a very wise, caring person.
[00:04:10] Mia Farrow: During my decades as Steve's friend, I didn't make a professional decision without talking it over with him or a personal decision. He would sit through love letters that I would read from this or that boyfriend.
[00:04:29] Richard Maltby Jr: We were there. We were there for the entire trajectory of that career. We were there at the opening nights. We were there watching life change. We were there for the whole arc of it.
[00:04:44] Martin Milnes: Steve once wrote, I have nothing to say. Well, nothing that's not been said, but this might be applied to Sondheim himself for up to now. History has known only Steve's version of his story. In fact, he told it so often and in exactly the same words, but his friends claimed Steve's got his story and he's sticking to it. But in reality, there's plenty that's not been said about Steve, and it's all explored here on this podcast. In candid conversations with his friends,
[00:05:16] Ronan Farrow: He was always emailing me, recommending the latest video game
[00:05:20] Martin Milnes: And family.
[00:05:21] Walter E. Sondheim: He was terribly into some magic. He was doing traditional magic tricks, professional magic tricks, you know,
[00:05:27] Martin Milnes: welcome to an unprecedented and deeply personal tribute. Loving You: The Untold Sondheim. A podcast made by Steve's friends, with Steve's friends. Hosted by me: Martin Milnes.
[00:05:42] Peter E Jones: and me, Peter E. Jones.
[00:05:59] Martin Milnes: Our tale begins at PJ's home in Dutchess County, New York. His basement is awash with Sondheim goodies, treasured records, and reel to reel tapes.
[00:06:14] Peter E Jones: Okay, Martin, so we've got a real piece of candid history for you here.
[00:06:19] Martin Milnes: Mm-hmm.
[00:06:19] Peter E Jones: You're about to hear the young Steve. With Lena Horne.
[00:06:23] Martin Milnes: Oh, we love Lena Horne. That lady is a legend.
[00:06:26] Peter E Jones: Um, it's around the time of Gypsy. Mm-hmm. So 1959, 1960. They're at a party given by Steve's friend, John Barry Ryan. And, let's see, this should be Steve here.
[00:06:37] Stephen Sondheim: Really, even on the piano?
[00:06:38] Lena Horne: Oh, on the piano's fine piano. But I don't think.
[00:06:41] Stephen Sondheim: Would you do it, Lennie?
[00:06:42] Martin Milnes: Oh, just stop that a second. So he's talking to Lenny. Is that Leonard Bernstein?
[00:06:46] Peter E Jones: Oh no. Lennie Hayton, Lena's husband.
Martin Milnes: Ah. So yeah, so he'd be about to play the piano for her.
Peter E Jones: But the other voice coming up is John, the host. They're trying to persuade Lena to perform a new Cy Coleman number Steve's never heard
[00:07:00] Lena Horne: The other guy plays it.
[00:07:01] Stephen Sondheim: But he can do, 'cause he said so earlier. Would you do it, Lenny?
No matter how informal, I just want to hear the song. I never heard the song.
[00:07:09] Martin Milnes: It's like being a fly on the wall at the actual party.
[00:07:12] Stephen Sondheim: Well, I didn't even know about it.
[00:07:13] Lena Horne: But we won't do justice to the song, that isn't fair.
[00:07:16] Peter E Jones: And then a little later Steve introduces his song 'Love Is In The Air' and plays it for Alina. Let me see if I can find that.
[00:07:22] Martin Milnes: Okay. So did you go to parties like this with Steve where everyone performed?
[00:07:26] Peter E Jones: Well, yeah, we went to parties, but you know what's most special to me when I think back? We had nights together at the piano in his study. We sat down at the piano and we had somehow gotten into a conversation about composition techniques, which I knew none I being unschooled. He was explaining specifically to me how 'Too Many Mornings' was designed based on a particular interval that he set up in the first part of the song, which led to a payoff of the song modulating at the very end based on that interval, and this was all revelatory to me.
[00:08:10] Martin Milnes: You say that you were unschooled, but you did come into Steve's life as a composer, in your twenties seeking advice and mentorship for writing musical theater. So these chats that you had privately one-on-one must have been absolutely thrilling.
[00:08:22] Peter E Jones: Oh, they were. One of the reasons, or the reason I met Steve was because I wrote him asking for an apprenticeship and he wrote back very quickly saying he did do apprenticeships, but said to look him up if I was ever in New York City. In 1991, I went to New York. I met Steve, and eventually we fell in love, which was not at all what I I imagined would happen
[00:08:46] Martin Milnes: because in total, both of Steve's partner and then his close friend, you had Steve in your life for 30 years.
[00:08:52] Peter E Jones: Yes, and a lot of those years, of course, was after our actual romantic relationship ended. I worked for him and I was very kindly named an archivist, but I really was a kind of fireman, as I like to say.
[00:09:09] Martin Milnes: So in effect, you were Stephen Sondheim's personal home troubleshooter?
[00:09:13] Peter E Jones: Yes. Fixing the air conditioning when it broke down, which was, uh, a regular thing. Uh, taking the Jaguar to be serviced, glamorous, things like that. I could be doing any number of things, Martin. It would just depend on what the day held, but oh, oh, oh, oh Martin.
Martin Milnes: Mm-hmm?
Peter E Jones: Think I've could come across something. Recognize this?
[00:09:35] Martin Milnes: What have you found now?
Five minutes alone and 33 songs to get through!
Oh, it's the tanonoy recording [through 33 contrasting'
[00:09:44] Peter E Jones: very important to archives.
Martin Milnes: ... in five minutes. Or could we "Ladies and gentlemen, may I have your attention, per-lease?".
[00:09:57] Martin Milnes: It's a really special memory PJ, because this is how I got to know Steve back in 2015. I was 29 and had just formed a new performing partnership with a singing pianist named Dominic Ferris; and we became known in the West End for doing mashup medleys, the most important being '33 Sondheim Numbers in Five Minutes', which Dominic and I premiered in Steve's 85th birthday gala at Theater Royal, Drury Lane. Sometimes our medley had up to three numbers happening simultaneously, and although Steve wasn't at the show in London afterwards, this tannoy recording found its way over to him.
[Archive Tape] You said me loved me! Now you're angry. No, I'm not. Yes, you are. No I'm not. Where you going? To the north, to the south, only hoof and mouth. To the east to the, west no community chest. I see a terrible depression all over the town ...
Maritn Milnes: We had no idea whether Sondheim would love or hate the medley, but either way, Dominic and I were relieved to know that from this Live Tannoy recording, he'd hear that the audience enjoyed it.
And I'll never forget, PJ, several weeks later, at about twenty-to-one in the morning, my phone buzzed and I thought, oh, it's just going to be another junk email. Opened it up. "Stephen Sondheim. Subject: From Stephen Sondheim. He was extremely kind about the medley and said he'd been playing it to his friends. That led to a phone call and ongoing email correspondence. And then, as you know, PJ, when Dominic and I were in New York, about a year later. Steve invited us around to his townhouse for drinks. So that would be at 246 East 49th Street at six o'clock.
[00:11:59] Peter E Jones: The six o'clock slot.
[00:12:00] Martin Milnes: Okay. So tell me about the six o'clock slot.
[00:12:03] Peter E Jones: Steve kept working hours of 10:00 AM to 6:00 PM in terms of his office being open. So people were calling for this or that. Those were the hours that you could reach him. And then at six you would have about an hour to an hour and a half, depending on whatever it was he was doing for the evening that people who wanted to see him on a social basis or even on a semi educational or work basis, that's what the six o'clock slot was for, for these meetings. And it also gave him a convenient way to end them if they weren't going well because, you know, at seven or seven 30, well I have to get ready. Uh, my car's coming. And of course, often I knew he would be going back to work in his study.
[00:12:46] Martin Milnes: Well, for my first six o'clock slot, the door was opened by Steve's chef, Mary Pat Walsh.
[00:12:53] Mary Pat Walsh: He loved the six o'clock slot, which was when he was in the city three days a week. Usually somebody was in that slot. He loved to see people, and it was stimulating. Steve always made an entrance. He was never downstairs first, always came down the stairs. He sat in the same exact place on the sofas, and if someone didn't know him and walked in ahead of you and sat in that place, you actually had to tell them, and you'd have to tell 'em where the dog was gonna sit, 'cause Addie or Willie would be next to him, and you couldn't sit there. But it was the time that he loved the most because it was the pure conversation. He got to sit, everybody had a drink. This was what he sort of lived for. By the time he got to dinner, he was almost sad because that meant it was all gonna be done in a minute, in a minute, because then he would eat and then he'd be either tired or have to go back upstairs and continue to work.
[00:13:46] Martin Milnes: When I was there at the house, I felt very, very aware of all the people who'd come through those doors before me because I knew that Steve had bought the house in 1960. He'd bought it with the royalties for Gypsy. So over the course of his entire lifetime, the people that had been entertained in that living room,
[00:14:03] Peter E Jones: Just in my time, the amount of people that came through and the amount of people I heard about.
[00:14:08] Martin Milnes: Okay, give me some 246 stories.
[00:14:11] Peter E Jones: Steve tells me one about a party he gave around 1968. He ran into Roddy McDowall, a friend of his, and said, 'Roddy, I just happen to be having a party this evening. You wanna come?' He said, 'I'd love to. May I bring someone?' 'Of course'. So, uh, party time rolls around. The doorbell rings and Steve answers it. And there's Roddy with Judy Garland.
[00:14:37] Martin Milnes: Of course.
[00:14:37] Peter E Jones: And Steve, of course, hides his shock and delight. 'Oh, please come in.' And so, so she plants herself on the edge of a sofa and pulls out her knitting. And that's what she does for the entire time.
[00:14:52] Martin Milnes: Judy Garland comes to Stephen Sondheim's party ---
[00:14:56] Peter E Jones: And knits. And he is, every now and then, trying to gently suggest, perhaps she'll come to the piano because at some point the piano started, you know, ringing itself and people started getting up and he could not get her there. He tried, but she was anchored into that sofa, knitting away. I wonder if he got what she knitted?
[00:15:20] Martin Milnes: Um, how about in your time? Who came round when you were there?
[00:15:23] Peter E Jones: In my time, I remember one particular meeting. This would've been 1994, where Barbra Streisand came for dinner. Barbra had come with DAT masters of her latest album she was planning to release called 'Back to Broadway', which was a sequel to 'The Broadway Album'. And she hadn't decided yet on an opening cut. She had two she was considering. So we went upstairs to where the stereo was and she played us, both of them, one of them being ---
Barbra Streisand: [sings] "Some Enchanted Evening" ---
Peter E Jones: ... And the other being ---
Barbra Streisand: [sings] "Luck be a lady tonight =" ---
Peter E Jones: And Steve and I both thought it should be 'Luck Be A Lady', and said so. And so, you know what happened? She chose 'Some Enchanted Evening'. After all that was done, we went back downstairs and there was an appetizer laid out of very nice cheese and crackers. And the reason I remember this so well is because I thought to myself, here I am sitting in a chair and Barbra Streisand said, 'Would you like some cheese and crackers?' And she spread cheese on a cracker for little old me.
[00:16:33] Martin Milnes: Over the years, you and Mary Pat must have welcomed some very exciting people into 246 to see Steve. So give me some more examples. Who came through those doors?
[00:16:43] Peter E Jones: Who came through those doors? What? Who didn't come through those doors in the last 10 years of his life? There was Johnny Depp, Meryl Streep. There was Quincy Jones, Rufus Wainwright and Paul McCartney.
[00:16:59] Mary Pat Walsh: There was one night that I looked in the calendar and it said Bradley or Bradley C or something like that, and I asked if anybody knew. They didn't know. I would just attempt to not have something stained on to answer the door. And I opened the door and it was Bradley Cooper, and I'm like, no one knew who that was! I might have combed my hair.
[00:17:21] Peter E Jones: Whoopi Goldberg came for dinner. Oh, I loved her. We had a really nice time. Another evening I was working late and the doorbell rang, so I go to answer it, and it's Vanessa Redgrave. There was an Encores production of 'A Little Night Music' being done, and she was playing Madam Armfeldt. And I remember she was in a big cloak. And I said, as I was taking her cloak, 'Would you like a drink, Miss Redgrave? And she said, 'Some red wine, please.' Anyway, I showed her upstairs and within 10 minutes doorbell rings again. And of course it's her daughter, Natasha Richardson, who is playing Desiree Armfeldt. Same thing, I think, red wine as well. And they closed the door to the inner sanctum and had their rehearsal.
[00:18:05] Martin Milnes: For me being an absolutely massive movie buff, and we're talking golden age Hollywood movie buff here. I was so excited when I visited Steve's house for the first time, to know that his next door neighbor for 40 years had been four-time Oscar winner, Katharine Hepburn, one of my idols. But of course, Steve and Hepburn had quite a prickly relationship.
[00:18:26] Peter E Jones: Oh, he loved talking about her because he was like you a huge golden age movie buff. But how did you discover that he was?
[00:18:34] Martin Milnes: Well, the fact that Steve had an encyclopedic knowledge of Golden Age cinema came up entirely by chance. He was asking me what kind of numbers I performed in the shows I did with my colleague Dominic, and I mentioned, oh, well, I do the song 'If You Hadn't, But You Did.'
Martin on archive tape: 'Goodbye, Joe! From here I kiss you! Goodbye ---
Martin Milnes: And I set the number up by talking about the great women of film noir. And me being me, I gave Steve a burst of dialogue.
Martin on archive tape: She was like those pistol building femme fatales from film noir. Women like Norma Desmond in Sunset Boulevard! Annie Laurie Starr in Gun Crazy! And, of course, Mildred Pierce.
Martin Milnes: And Steve was absolutely astounded. And he said, how do you know all this? And Dominic said, oh, well there isn't much that Martin doesn't know about Golden Age movies. And then Steve started testing me. He said, 'Say, do you know They Drive By Night?' And I replied, 'Well, yes, of course, with Humphrey Bogart.' And Steve said, 'No, no, I don't mean the American movie from 1940. I mean the obscure 1938 British film of the same name with?' And I didn't know the answer!
Peter E. Jones: Stumped!
Martin Milnes: But Steve said, 'Oh, I love British cinema! Rex Harrison! Lilli Palmer! And we were off to the races at that point. We just began talking about all our favorite films. I told Steve that my favorite movie was in fact, one of the film noirs I just mentioned, named 'Gun Crazy', which is this incredible picture from 1950 starring a fabulous actress, Peggy Cummins.
Archive footage Peggy Cummins: One more step and I'll kill you! I'll kill you!
Martin Milnes: And Peggy was a Hollywood star in the 1940s, but she was British and she was now living back in London. And Peggy very often came to see my shows with Dominic. So I mentioned to Steve, oh, Peggy Cummins of 'Gun Crazy' is kind enough to support us. And when I mentioned 'Gun Crazy', Steve pulled a face and went, 'Ugh. I think it's overrated.' But then he said about Peggy Cummins, 'But have you ever seen her in a movie called 'Moss Rose'?' And 'Moss Rose' is one of Peggy's movies from 1947. This is a movie buff's movie. The man on the street will not know this film. So to hear Steve discussing this film of Peggy's, which I knew really well, I was flabbergasted! So I just said, 'Yes! She almost gets murdered by Ethel Barrymore.
[00:21:08] Peter E Jones: Oh, Steve would've loved, you knew that. Ethel Barrymore murdering Peggy Cummins!
[00:21:12] Martin Milnes: And Steve, literally, he took off. He was sitting on the sofa and his eye popped open and he just went, 'What?' And I showed off a bit at that point, I said, 'Well, only after Patricia Medina gets murdered first.' And Steve said: 'Nobody knows who these people are. And you do!' And then Steve said: 'Oh my God, I'm so embarrassed. I'm having a sexual experience!'
Steve and I then forged a beautiful friendship, which lasted the rest of his life, inspired by our shared passion for old movies. We met in person in New York and London and sent each other constant emails, bantering about classic films. It was wonderful because this wasn't a friendship based on his work.
It wasn't me trying to tell him all about my work. Steve and I just loved being movie fans, geeking out together in such niche detail and challenging each other with our encyclopedic movie knowledge.
[00:22:07] Peter E Jones: That took over, didn't it? The whole thing took off from there.
[00:22:09] Martin Milnes: But of course PJ, if it wasn't for that shared niche interest, I wouldn't just have not had Steve in my life. I wouldn't have you in my life. Because two years after Steve and I met, he sent me an email with you CC'd, and it regarded a technical question Steve was asking me about downloads from a brilliant website, rarefilmm.com, which we both absolutely loved. You can download the most obscure movies, and Steve and I both used rarefilmm.com all the time. But they'd upgraded their download system, and Steve, as I came to learn, was a bit of a technophobe and you of course did many of his digital technical things for him.
[00:22:49] Peter E Jones: Yeah, a bit like the blind leading the blind really.
[00:22:54] Martin Milnes: But in this email with you CC'd, Steve said, 'I'd like to give your email address to my archivist, assistant, fellow movie buff, with a great expertise in old songs and a great imitation of Meman, Peter Jones. So, PJ, right from our very first interaction, thanks to Steve, I heard all about your famous imitation of the legendary Ethel Merman.
Peter E. Jones on archive tape: We Love You!
[00:23:28] Peter E Jones: Why would he tell you that?
[00:23:30] Martin Milnes: Well, I think Steve knew that we were going to get on.
[00:23:33] Peter E Jones: It does surprise me that he would zero in on that. But I think because of what you say, he knew you would like that.
[00:23:40] Martin Milnes: We all know that Merman starred in Steve's musical Gypsy. But Ethel was not Steve's favorite colleague. So why did Steve love Ethel Merman stories so much?
[00:23:50] Peter E Jones: Why? I mean, for one, he knew her, worked with her, and had a somewhat ambivalent relationship working with her.
Ethel Merman sings on archive tape: You don't need circumcising! It is ---
Peter E Jones: So to hear bitchy kind of camp stories about her would've delighted him. Of course. And he had several of his own.
Ethel Merman sings on archive tape: You're not sick, you're just knocked up!
[00:24:14] Martin Milnes: And in 1997 at the 80th birthday party of Gypsy's book writer Arthur Laurents, you made a special appearance as Ethel Merman, complete with wig!
[00:24:24] Peter E Jones: Complete with wig. The wrong color, mind you. Yes. And I had on a mustache, which I decided would add to the festivities instead of shaving it for the party I kept.
Peter E Jones as Ethel Merman on archive tape: Look, Jerry. I don't react to your lines and you don't react to mine, Okay? We have so much in common ---
Peter E Jones: Steve and I talked about what can we do for Arthur? Something that we could do together. We'd do a medley of Gypsy songs that, uh, Steve would, uh, do the parody lyric to, and then I would perform and Steve played for me.
[00:25:02] Martin Milnes: So who else was at this party who watched your performance as Ethel Merman?
[00:25:06] Peter E Jones: There was Mary Rodgers. So obviously this was a time where everybody was getting along because Steve and Mary and Arthur were on the same room.
Martin Milnes: All in the same room on good terms.
Peter E Jones: Good terms. It was wonderful. And Arthur's partner, Tom Hatcher was there making everything run wonderfully smoothly. And of course there was Elaine Stritch.
[00:25:34] Elaine Stritch on voicemail: Peter, this is Elaine stretch calling. I got your number from Steve. I hope you don't mind him giving it to me. I'm sure you don't. Peter, I had to call you and. One-on-one being on the phone or not tell you how adorable - God, I bet you hate that word - you were, uh, Sunday night. And I'm telling you something, I said to Steve, first of all, the guts to get up in front of those highly critical but fun loving folk was, um, was, uh, terrific. And I really, really admire you for doing it. It, um, uh, used to take me five martinis to do that, and it was so straightforward and sincere and, and, and entertaining. And, um, if you were scared, it, it becomes you. Um, I don't mean that, that you shouldn't, uh, uh, get uncared as you grow older, but boy, oh boy, darling, you, you really, really made me feel good.
So I just wanted you to know that. I'll talk to you real soon. Bye-bye Peter.
[00:26:43] Peter E Jones: It was an experience that taught me how theater people are, how, how they're different from the Hollywood contingent. They just get together, and as pretentious as theater people can be, they're not, when they're in these situations, they just have a good time. I can remember how delighted I was at the next day when we were all assembled for a little snack type lunch, which was based on the leftovers from the night before Tom Hatcher was up there carving up the roast and making impromptu sandwiches for everybody, sandwiches and chips - or crisps as you know them - and, and everybody was just having a great time and they said how wonderful the food was. And that really, really spoke to me and it was a warming experience I loved.
[00:27:29] Martin Milnes: But on the note of Gypsy, my favorite email from Steve was this. We'd been chatting about the film version of Gypsy, which had starred Rosalind Russell as Rose. And I said, well, if Rosalind Russell hadn't done the movie, I'd love to have seen what Judy Garland could have made of the role. And I get this email back a few minutes later and it says, Garland as Rose: Arthur - brackets - Laurents and I came within a millimeter of persuading Judy to play Rose and Liza, to play Louise for a concert version at Carnegie Hall. But it was a millimeter two far. It's the ultimate casting concept!
Judy Garland on tape: But I at least gotta try! When I think of all the places I gotta see yet. All the places
I gotta play. All the things that I gotta be yet. Come on Papa, what do you say? What do you say?
Martin Milnes: These are the kind of camp stories which you and I both enjoyed with Steve, yet he did go on record as saying 'Camp for me has a shot shelf life.' But you and I both know that in private, Steve absolutely indulged in camp.
[00:28:35] Peter E Jones: Exactly. He didn't wanna be known for it, but among his trusted friends who would be receptive to it. Yes. As I think back on it, what cemented our relationship was I knew who Bette Davis was. He loved to indulge in Bette Davis lines and ---
[00:28:53] Martin Milnes: --- And impressions.
[00:28:53] Peter E Jones: And impressions, yes. That was a personal thing that he loved
[00:28:57] Martin Milnes: Stephen Sondheim doing impressions of camp Hollywood Diva Bette Davis.
Now, that would come as a surprise to Steve's fans!
[00:29:05] Peter E Jones: Yeah. I imagine it would come as a surprise to fans, but also that's because a lot of times fans make him to be a more of a heavy than he really was. And that's part of what happens when people become icons is their image gets very narrowed. But we know that he had quite a sense of humor and liked a more lighthearted sensibility when he was with his friends.
[00:29:28] Martin Milnes: But you are right that he did with regards to the public have a very carefully curated image. Steve would never tell these kind of camp stories publicly, but he would tell the same stories about his life and career over and over and over. And this is something which Steve's friend Frank Rich discovered in 2013. Frank and James Lapine produced a documentary on Steve called 'Six by Sondheim.' And Steve's word for word accounts of his life became very familiar to Frank.
[00:29:57] Frank Rich: When we did our documentary of 'Six by Sondheim', we debated at great length whether we were going to interview him again. And we came to um, the conclusion there was no point 'cause the story never changes. I found this when I was interviewing around the country. We used to joke, he had a story. He was sticking to it. And so at one point we took one of his classic reminiscences about Hammerstein, I think it was about criticizing the first thing he wrote. And we literally cut, starting in black and white in the 1950s and ending up like 10 years ago, the same sentence in four different interviews without changing a word. It all fit together.
[00:30:33] Peter E Jones: I think that because of experiences he had as a child, particularly with his mother, he had a real aversion to any kind of public humiliation. Who of us does it? But I mean, he, it was a thing with him, and so I think some of this curated persona was to keep the safety valve. He was very good at sitting down to an interview, very good at telling stories, but he committed those things to what I call the little card box in his head. And so when he pulled them up, they were always the same story, almost worded the same way, and so on.
[00:31:11] Martin Milnes: But because Steve had this carefully curated professional image, it does mean that over many decades, myths and rumors have sprung up about him, personal stories, which are completely inaccurate.
[00:31:22] Peter E Jones: As happens with somebody who becomes an icon. You lose the, the humanity of the person. And what comes with his image of being an icon, a neurotic, broody, scary intellectual.
You know, if he had written in the, uh, serious music world, none of that would've been put on him. But it's because he is working in the musical theater. Then all of a sudden he must be this, you know?
[00:31:46] Martin Milnes: So people assume because he wrote dark and serious work, that he must have been dark and serious in his personal life the whole time.
[00:31:53] Peter E Jones: Which, which was not the case. I mean, he was a multifaceted person like most of us are.
[00:31:59] Martin Milnes: And fun and humor were really important to it.
[00:32:02] Peter E Jones: Yes, most of all, if you didn't have humor, you didn't have anything. And nothing else could work without it really. And that's why even his darkest work always has humor, always.
And so he was terribly funny, appreciated things that were funny, and this is something nobody seems to realize, but he was essentially an optimist. I can say that firsthand knowing him and knowing the fact that I am not an optimist. And I think some people might say I am oddly enough, but I am not. And Steve is, or was definitely an optimist.
[00:32:39] Martin Milnes: Do you think then that the public has often projected onto Steve what they want him to be?
[00:32:46] Peter E Jones: Yes. They do that with most icons. I even wrote a song about that once about people see what they want to see in a hero they project,
[00:32:55] Martin Milnes: So they will slice that icon down to an idealized version of what they want that person to be, or a romanticized version of what they want that person to be. Until that icon is no longer a real person.
[00:33:07] Peter E Jones: Yeah, it is based on something they zero in on and then it gets locked and it cannot change. The public wants to hear the same thing about their icons over and over again. They don't want anything to conflict with those ideas,
[00:33:22] Martin Milnes: And in Steve's case, it became extreme. Steve even wrote a song about this himself, taking the mick out of the fact that people called him 'God'. What I think people forget is that there was a time before Steve was seen as God. And it's not just Steve. Take his collaborators from 'West Side Story', Leonard Bernstein and Jerome Robbins. In 1957, when they created 'West Side Story', Steve, Lenny and Jerry had not yet become icons, and Steve had certainly not yet become God. To their friends,
they were all just kids. They were just kids making art. And there are still some people who can very clearly recall that. For instance, the lifelong friend of Jerome Robbins, Broadway star, Sondra Lee.
[00:34:07] Sondra Lee: The thing about Jerry, that was very much in a way like Lenny, and that is they both had great sense of humor. And then, the baby of the group was Sondheim. And he had humor! And you never knew where it was coming from! Mm-hmm. I mean, you could see the little ticker tape going, you didn't know what was gonna come out. They all were comrades of genius When they were doing 'West Side story', Jerry lived in an apartment. I was there all the time. And they would run, all of them up and down the street, yelling at each other. This is the birth of 'West Side Story'. And they're yelling at each other and they're hitting each other. And then they finally all made up and went back. And 'West Side Story', I mean, just think of those throbbing geniuses! Laughing, talking, arguing. And each one was so different. Some was very silent, some were outrageous. I mean, Lenny, I didn't even know him and he kissed me on the mouth. You know that's, well he's always sitting in the on the john talking to you. What a group. Gosh, I miss them.
[00:35:25] Peter E Jones: People also forget it was only very gradually that Steve became a legend. And that took years for him to be recognized as a composer. He was recognized as a lyricist early on. But frankly, like any great art, it takes time for people to start catching up.
[00:35:43] Martin Milnes: I've heard it said that it takes a public about 30 years to catch up with Steve, which if you look at history, it's pretty accurate.
[00:35:49] Peter E Jones: That sounds right. Yeah.
[00:35:49] Martin Milnes: But the Broadway community in the seventies really clocked this very, very early on.
[00:35:53] Peter E Jones: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
[00:35:54] Martin Milnes: And it's worth highlighting that a very important milestone in Steve being recognized as a composer was a one night benefits show in 1973 Sondheim: A musical Tribute.
[00:36:04] Peter E Jones: Yeah. Yes.
[00:36:05] Martin Milnes: And I think it really shouldn't be forgotten just how influential this night was in Steve being recognized as a composer.
[00:36:10] Peter E Jones: Yes. And the evening was recorded, which made it even more influential.
[00:36:14] Martin Milnes: It became known as the Scrabble album, didn't it? Yes. Yes. Because of the artwork. Yes. Sondheim: A Musical Tribute was produced by 25-year-old Kurt Peterson, who'd played Young Ben in Follies. Kurt brought together the entire production, and for what he accomplished that night, Steve remained forever grateful.
[00:36:33] Stephen Sondheim on archive tape: Wow. Uh, a show like this is, I don't think any of you have any notion of how much hard work, time, and effort it takes on the part of so many people. Performers, you know. You don't know about the stage staff. You don't know about producer Kurt Peterson, who's been working on it for three months.
[00:36:56] Martin Milnes: But it was obvious to Kurt that it really was the love for Steve personally from his friends and colleagues, which made this benefit happen. So I think it's worth noting that even at this early point, Steve, as a person, as a human being is really inspiring the love and devotion of everyone he comes across. More than 50 years on. Kurt remembers this clearly.
[00:37:17] Kurt Peterson: Something happened that night. Hmm. And people took note. It happened because of the love and the, um, knowledge and the knowingness of the theater community that was involved in that. They knew what Stephen was, even though the press at that point was still quite a few years behind. But they knew. Yeah. And they came and they showed up and they did the work. And that's why it was so special. The love and the, um, the appreciation for him.
[00:37:47] Martin Milnes: Sondheim: A Musical Tribute was in 1973. And happily, Steve lived long enough to see himself become a legend in his own lifetime.
[00:37:55] Peter E Jones: Yes. He was ambivalent about that. The tributes were coming, the fundraisers using his name. And while all that was appealing to him at the same time, it, it took away from him being able to do what he wanted to do most, which was do the work. And the second part of that was the fact that over time a lot of animosity developed,
[00:38:17] Martin Milnes: We're talking professional jealousy here?
[00:38:18] Peter E Jones: Yes, I'd say professional jealousy, because he was in that odd spot where he was this progressive artist in a genre that is very much about status quo in a way.
[00:38:31] Martin Milnes: And the aura about Steve could make people behave in the most peculiar ways and become really, really possessive.
[00:38:38] Peter E Jones: Oh yeah. He told me many stories like that. And in the beginning. I didn't believe them. I thought, oh, you're just using your typical hyperbole, saturating the story.
[00:38:49] Martin Milnes: Weird things happened around Steve.
[00:38:50] Peter E Jones: Absolutely. It's it's absolutely true. One story he told me early on was he was crossing the street in New York City and he encountered songwriter Bob Merrill crossing the opposite direction.
[00:39:01] Martin Milnes: So, another Broadway composer-lyricist.
[00:39:03] Peter E Jones: Yeah. And Bob zeroed in on the fact that Steve had manuscripts under his arm, and he grabbed those manuscripts, yanked them out from under his arm and said, 'What are these, what are you doing?' Right in the middle of the street! That's the kind of thing that happened to him. He was a passionate man. There was nothing lukewarm about him, and he inspired that in others. So people either hated him or loved him. There was rarely a contingent that we're kind of, eh. They either really loved him or really hated him. I think it came from his own extreme passion.
[00:39:37] Martin Milnes: I think it's also frustrating that these false perceptions about Steve have been fueled by people speaking out about him who were not in reality close to him, people who've exaggerated encounters or experiences with him. And these stories, some of which are not flattering, have then been taken as fact. So one thing which I'm really pleased that we're doing is setting the record straight by talking to people who are among those genuinely close to Steve. You don't know who Steve was by saying, oh, well, in 1957 he wrote West Side Story, and then in 1959 he wrote Gypsy, and then he formed a partnership with director Hal Prince. That's what Steve did, but it's not who he was. And for me, I think a life is understood by exploring nuance and personal human experiences. That is how you find out who Steve was.
[00:40:29] Peter E Jones: That's right Martin. That is how you find out who Steve was, and I think that's the point of what we're doing here. We're going to embark on a quest like going into the woods to find, not Stephen Sondheim, but Steve, and share what a wonderful human being he was with the world.
[00:40:49] Martin Milnes: I think it's important to celebrate the man as much as his work because what we've discovered by chatting to Steve's friends and all those people closest to him is just how many lives he's changed personally through his friendship, his wisdom, his mentorship to so many people and his generosity. We've gathered a great many stories very generously shared by Steve's friends, which I think are going to surprise even the most diehard son time fans. For anybody who didn't have the great privilege of knowing Steve personally, I hope it will help them understand who the Steve was, who we were all lucky to know and love.
[00:41:27] Peter E Jones: Martin, I've noticed, as I'm sure you have too, just how many of our guests have told us the same thing, which is that they're so happy to have had the opportunity to talk to us. In some cases, it's as if nobody asked them ever to talk about Steve. But we've gotten that over and over again, haven't we?
[00:41:46] Martin Milnes: But it's also been fun chatting to people with different stories to tell. And while they did greatly admire Steve, they also found him prickly. Yes. And perhaps didn't always have such a smooth relationship with him. But what we can do now is find out why.
[00:42:03] Peter E Jones: Yes, we can find out why Steve was being a human. Yes. And not just a perfect icon. Maybe he had a life, maybe things were going on in his life. Maybe we'll find that out.
[00:42:13] Martin Milnes: I'm really happy that one guest in particular has been so genuinely supportive of this tribute. And that's Steve's half brother, Walter.
[00:42:21] Peter E Jones: Walter would be the, yes, person who went back the furthest in Steve's life. Steve's parents were divorced when he was 10, and Steve's dad remarried and had two sons. Walter, which is one of them the other, no longer with us, was named Herbie after his father. So Herbert's second wife, Alicia, Walter's mother, Steve was very fond of. So he had a good relationship with the second Sondheim family, but the relationship he had with his, uh, biological mother, Janet Fox Sondheim, known as Foxy, that was something else. And it forever shaped Steve's life in work.
[00:43:00] Martin Milnes: The night before Foxy underwent open heart surgery, she wrote Steve a letter and she told him, 'The greatest regret I have in life is giving you birth'. And of course, famously, if it hadn't been for the Broadway lyricist, Oscar Hammerstein II, who became a surrogate father to Steve, Steve himself wondered whether he'd even be alive.
And with regards to Steve's family, in addition to Walter, I'm really thrilled and very touched that Steve's husband, Jeff, Jeff Romley, has told us that he's glad we're making this podcast. Very understandably Jeff prefers to keep his memories private. But I think pj, the reason that a great many others have shared their memories with us so openly is you, Steve's friends, know how much Steve loved you.
And therefore they know that this podcast has been made for the right reasons. And that's why they've said yes to chatting to us when they've said no to interviews from outside parties. For instance, one of Steve's closest friends and leading interpreters is Maria Friedman. Maria's memories are so private and so special that up to now she's never shared them. And indeed, as Maria told me in London, she's only shared them now on this podcast because PJ, she knows how much Steve loved you. And Steve's love means a very great deal to Maria.
[00:44:21] Maria Friedman: I'm very intrigued by the amount of people who 'own' him now. There are so many people who are saying, 'I knew him, he was special to me', but it's not the case. But I'm happy to talk about it 'cause PJ's involved.
[00:44:34] Martin Milnes: Now, PJ, this will be the first time in over 25 years that you've spoken publicly about your romantic relationship with Steve, and it was life-changing for you both. You are the first person with whom Stephen Sondheim ever fell in love. Those are his words, and I think that's down so much to the person that you are, PJ, and the person that you were with, Steve. You loved him for who he really was, both during your romantic relationship and afterwards. It was unconditional love, something, which prior to meeting you, Steve had never experienced. At Steve's request, you did speak once to a Sondheim biographer, for a book which came out in 1999. But then after the book came out, you decided that was going to be it. You were not going to speak publicly again about your relationship with Steve. Having remained private for so long, why are you happy now to share your story on this podcast?
[00:45:34] Peter E Jones: Happy? Sorry, I couldn't resist it. Sorry. No, see, he would've appreciated that humor. That's exactly the thing he would, would've loved. Honestly, I, I, I'm speaking about it now because I am almost the age he was when we met. That has brought about a great deal in terms of my growth, my understanding of things that happened before, and my need to say, I was there.
I was with him. I was a, a big part of his life. I've always taken a back seat to that idea. And, uh, I no longer wish to do that. So this is, this is as much for him as for me. But it's also for you, Martin, because we've become friends. You are the one I know I can trust with this. You are the one I know is right to do this. And he would've felt the same way because of the joy you brought him in the last stretch of his life.
[00:46:39] Martin Milnes: I like to feel that he would be very pleased and proud that you're doing this. I think he'd also be really touched by how many of his friends have wanted to share and distribute. We've mentioned that having the opportunity to speak about Steve has meant a lot to people and especially to a wonderful lady who knew and loved Steve for 65 years and I couldn't be more delighted to introduce her as our first featured guest to share her love for Steve
[00:47:20] Julie Andrews: Martin - PJ - the idea for this podcast is really lovely. I mean, it needs to be done, I think.
[00:47:29] Martin Milnes: Thank you.
[00:47:29] Peter E Jones: Just a, a kind of a valentine to him is what we hope it to be.
[00:47:33] Julie Andrews: Well, you must have adored Steve more than even I did, and I thought, I thought I loved him more than anybody in the world, but there you are.
[00:48:01] Martin Milnes: Dame Julie Andrews, welcome to our podcast. When did you first meet Steve?
[00:48:05] Julie Andrews: I believe it must have been about 1957. I was in, um, 'My Fair Lady' and I was invited to one of those luncheons that are given by let's say Playbill or Theater World or something like that - for the stars on Broadway. And uh, I went on my own and was completely out of my depth, and walked into a crowded room and I saw a table with just one man sitting at it in a corner. And so I went right to the back of the room and asked if I might take a seat at this table. And it happened to be Sondheim that I was sitting next to. Certainly it must have been for him around the time of 'West Side Story.'
He was fairly reserved. He was very quiet, but very present. It's a hard thing to describe, but you knew even though he was shy, that he was taking in absolutely everything. Uh, he was just a lot of things that were simply fascinating. He was an observer, no doubt about it. I would watch him leaning against the side of a doorway or something, and just looking. And yet there was an attentiveness, even when he was being shy, and you know, that he was taking everything in, just watching and watching.
I know I'm gushing dreadfully, but it seems like he was today's Shakespeare, in a way. He could write equally well for women or for men. And you didn't feel that either of those choices were difficult for him. He knew how we felt. I felt. The guys felt. And then bared his soul.
We once had a terrific conversation about Broadway and I was saying how much I admired a certain show, and he said, 'Yeah, I like those composers'. And then he suddenly said, 'But I often wish that the composers for musicals would go just a little bit further. He said, in my opinion that when you are writing a musical, you need to open your vest and bare your chest, so to speak, and let it all out'. He said, 'So many people seem to stop just before that moment when you really allowed them - the audience and the public - into that very personal, private place where it truly moves you.' I instantly knew what he meant, because the people that he referred to were wonderful people, but you never felt that they actually said, 'Okay, look inside my soul, and here's what I'm talking about.' And Steve with his wondrous talent, he did just that.
[00:50:55] Peter E Jones: I've never heard that. That's certainly a unique story.
[00:50:57] Julie Andrews: It is unique.
[00:50:58] Peter E Jones: And it fits him, but I've never heard him.
[00:51:00] Julie Andrews: It does fit him, doesn't it? Hmm. And, and as you both know, he was mentored and taught by Oscar Hammerstein. I believe personally, that when Oscar Hammerstein wrote the 'Soliloquy', for instance, for 'Carousel', that was one of the times where he too bared his soul.
The, the music, the lyrics, what the character was singing about and saying was brilliant was, oh,
and it was the end of a first act. And then I, when I was watching 'Sweeney Todd', Steve had used a big soliloquy, roughly at the end of a first act. And you remember how he gets so angry. And says, 'You sir. You sir, how about a shape?' Very different, but talk about bearing your soul.
It was almost, I would imagine, I may be wrong, consciously or unconsciously influenced by Hammerstein. I don't know if that's true, but that's what I thought when I was watching it.
[00:52:15] Martin Milnes: And you've often said, 'I always weep at Sondheim'.
[00:52:17] Julie Andrews: Oh my God, I was gonna mention that. I think it's because talking about baring your soul, I recognized it. I had to weep. I couldn't not weep. I mean, 'Sunday In The Park' for instance, particularly the end of the first act of 'Sunday in the park'. I'm, I was just bawling and couldn't go backstage without weeping all over again. It's just that it's so good. Harmony. So lovely. So. True. I think those were the reasons that, that I wept, but I wept at 'Sweeney'. I wept at, um, oh, just so many of them.
[00:52:56] Martin Milnes: How about 'West Side Story', because you went to the run through given just for other Broadway performers?
[00:53:03] Julie Andrews: I did! My God, that was not long after I knew him. And of course. The minute the overture to 'West Side' began, the audience just erupted and it was so, so exciting. Just the show too was brilliant and couldn't help but bawl at that as well. I didn't see everything and that was my, uh, regret because I was working so hard. In, um, 'My Fair Lady' and 'Camelot' on Broadway. And it doesn't allow for much time to go and see anything else. But when I could, of course I would go and, uh, I loved everything I saw.
[00:53:47] Martin Milnes: And after 'Camelot' in 1962, just before you began filming 'Mary Poppins', Steve joined you for a short holiday?
[00:53:56] Julie Andrews: Yes. What happened was that I was married at the time to a gentleman called. Uh, Tony Walton and he was a brilliant designer of, um, film theater sets, costumes the whole lot and I mean, brilliant. And he was asked to do a funny thing happened on the way to the forum Tony, and of course made friendship with Steve as well. So little by little I guess he would come over to our apartment and play my lovely Steinway. And, uh, we got to be very good friends.
[00:54:33] Stephen Sondheim sings on archive tape: In the Tiber there sits a boat, gently dipping its bow. Trim and tidy and built to flow. Pretty little picture ---
[00:54:40] Julie Andrews: To go to his house for supper or to um, have him come down to the theater or something like that, or to meet him at a party. It was always. That really lovely, satisfied feeling of, oh, good, Steve's here. Uh, it always felt great. He was very, very, very dear to me.
Tony and I had a little tiny, tiny fisherman's cottage on an island called Al in the Channel Islands. And, uh, that's just off the coast of France, of off Cherbourg in the English Channel. But we dared to ask Steve if he'd like to join us, and he did! For like a three day weekend or something like that.
He seemed to have a wonderful time. We obviously did our best. We took him all over the island, which is very, very small. So, uh, but the weather was blustery and, and cold and cloudy and he kept saying, this is just the kind of weather I love. It just suits my personality and so on. And he made us feel very good about it. And we had a fabulous three days and it kind of really then cemented the friendship.
[00:56:07] Martin Milnes: I believe you were pregnant with your daughter Emma at the time?
[00:56:10] Julie Andrews: Yes, I was. Now at that point we took some photographs, we albany up on the bluffs above the, looking down on the sea and it was great. And I was pretty pregnant as you are commenting. We sat on the bluff and uh, got somebody to take a photograph of us and Steve suddenly leaned over and put his head in my lap and there was my belly and there was Steve's head.
Photographer: Alright, you two smile.
Julie Andrews: And many years later, uh, when we were rounded his apartment in New York City, he gave me this framed montage of photographs, and they were the ones that had been taken on Albany. And there was Steve with his head in my lap, and I was beside myself with delight because it couldn't have been a more personal or sweet gift. And it gave him great pleasure. I could tell he was kind of excited about giving it to me. So it was a lovely moment and I, I, I'm so glad it meant as much to him as it meant to us.
I, I have to say that I absolutely adored him. If he had - he never would've - but if he had said, 'would you marry me?' I think I would've seriously considered it. Because he was so darned attractive in an amazing way. He really was. I mean, just to have a conversation with him, just to have him nearby, just to watch him. And here what he had to say about life in general or anything.
[00:57:42] Martin Milnes: Gosh,
[00:57:43] Julie Andrews: Yes.
[00:57:44] Martin Milnes: Wonderful.
Julie Andrews: Gosh is right. Gosh is right. Very few people have touched me as much as he did, and I'm not alone in that love. I hope he felt it or knew it in some ways, but again, being so shy, he probably kept it behind a wall. I don't know. And we all adored him. I don't think anybody didn't adore Steve and his talent. To say that he was loved, it's not just gushing on my part. I, I really don't know. I mean, to weep at everything he wrote, to adore him as a human being, to know his early life and what he must have been through and how much he must have been hurt in early years.
He was brave and caustic about it and. Very sad in so many ways. I think because one knew that Steve overcame so much in his youth and then wrote so brilliantly and beautifully and wittily, and wickedly, that, as I say, it made me cry for so many reasons. Knowing the man fairly well. Have you got some people talking about his early years?
Martin Milnes: We have. In fact, we've had a wonderful chat with Steve's half brother, Walter.
[00:59:02] Julie Andrews: Good. I do hope this series goes well.
[00:59:04] Martin Milnes: Thank you so much. Well, we wanted to gather together those who knew Steve and loved Steve creating a beautiful series that will hopefully move people.
[00:59:13] Julie Andrews: I think it will. But I'm sure that, you know, talk to anybody. Bernadette for instance, I think adored him and I knew him so well.
[00:59:21] Martin Milnes: Yeah. We chatted to Bernadette. You know, we've been very lucky with how many of Steve's friends
[00:59:25] Julie Andrews: Who have you done so far?
[00:59:26] Martin Milnes: Oh, in addition to you, we've had Bernadette, uh, Patti. Uh, Lin-Manuel Miranda, Maltby and Shire. Mm. James the Pine, John Weidman, Mia Farrow. Um, Jamie Bernstein. Uh, I'm trying to remember off the top of my head now, but it's ---
[00:59:42] Julie Andrews: Yeah, that'll do! I get, I get the gist of it. Yes. Yeah. My God. Well, maybe we'll all meet again one day and then we can talk and talk and talk about him and carry on.
[00:59:52] Martin Milnes: Oh, I'd love that. I'd love that.
[00:59:53] Julie Andrews: Yeah. Wouldn't that be fun? Oh, I'd love that. I miss him and think about him more than I can say. Uh, really more than I can convey. It's interesting that somebody gets into your soul so firmly. And I think you probably know what I mean by that. It, it just, it won't go, oh, well, of course that beautiful song of his in not a day goes by. I sang it to him once at one of his birthdays or something. I was asked to send across a message, but instead of the message I sang a little bit of not a day goes by.
He loved it. I think I was told that he loved it, but I hope he did.
[01:00:33] Martin Milnes: He would have,
[01:00:34] Peter E Jones: oh, I'm sure
[01:00:35] Martin Milnes: he would have.
[01:00:46] Julie Andrews: Hello Steve, this is Jules. I so wish that I could be there tonight. I just want to say 'Not a day goes by, not a single day. You're not somewhere a part of my life, and I need you to stay. Till the days go by.
Love you, Steve.'
[01:01:40] Mehran James McCullough: In this episode, the voice of Lena Horne appears by kind permission of Ms. Horne's granddaughter, Jenny Lumet, and Ms. Horne's daughter, the late Gail Lumet Buckley. Further acknowledgement is extended to Joshua Ellis, James L. Nederlander, and Christina Selby.
Our newscasters were played by Samuel Black, Maya Post, Jonathan-Bruce King, James Gower Smith, Rebecca Ridout, Bruce Graham, Yeukayi Ushe, Elen Mon Wayne, Susan Fleet, and Jonathan Christopher
Julie and Steve's Alderney photographer was played by Alan Milnes.
The music of Stephen Sondheim was played by Colm Molloy, with 'Too Many Mornings' played by Gareth Valentine.
The party pianist was Steve Ross who played, 'How About You?' by Burton Lane and Ralph Freed. Sondheim and Bernstein instrumental tracks were provided by Broadway Studio Orchestra.
The official music video of '33 Sondheim Numbers in Five Minutes' by Ferris and Milnes can be found on YouTube.
'Some Enchanted Evening' by Rodgers and Hammerstein, and 'Luck Be A Lady' by Frank Loesser, were sung by Barbra Streisand.
'If You Hadn't, But You Did', sung by Martin Milnes, was written by Jule Styne, Betty Comden and Adolph Green.
'As Time Goes By' was written by Herman Hupfeld.
'You're Just In Love', sung by Ethel Merman, was written by Irving Berlin.
'Soliloquy' by Rodgers and Hammerstein was sung by John Raitt, and 'Epiphany' by Stephen Sondheim, was sung by Len Cariou.
Dame Julie Andrews sang 'I Have a Love' with her dear chum, Carol Burnett. From 'Camelot' by Lerner and Loewe, Dame Julie sang 'Then You May Take Me To The Fair.'
'Something Good' was composed by Richard Rodgers.
Final Mix and Mastering is by Chris Traves and I, am Mehran James McCullough.
'Loving You: The Untold Sondheim' is produced by Martin Milnes and Peter E. Jones. The Executive Producer is Jason Caffrey of Creative Kin Limited. The Mix Engineer is Phoebe Murdoch. The podcast's original score is composed by Peter E. Jones. The series is written, devised, and directed by Martin Milnes.