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Rethink Culture is the podcast that shines the spotlight on the leaders who are rethinking workplace culture. Virtually all of the business leaders who make headlines today do so because of their company performance. Yet, the people and the culture of a company is at least as important as its performance. It's time that we shine the spotlight on the leaders who are rethinking workplace culture and are putting people and culture at the forefront.
[00:00:07.11 - 00:00:10.13] Good morning, good afternoon and good evening.
[00:00:10.19 - 00:00:14.19] Welcome to the Rethink Culture podcast, the podcast that shines a spotlight on
[00:00:14.19 - 00:00:20.14] business leaders who are rethinking workplace culture and creating intentional cultures.
[00:00:20.14 - 00:00:23.10] My name is Andreas Konstantinou and I'm your host.
[00:00:23.10 - 00:00:26.13] And I'm also the founder of Rethink Culture, a company that aims to help 1
[00:00:26.13 - 00:00:30.19] million businesses create a healthier, more fulfilling work culture.
[00:00:31.01 - 00:00:35.20] We just launched a new service, Culture Health Score, that turns your culture into a KPI,
[00:00:36.02 - 00:00:39.13] and you can learn more at rethinkculture.co.
[00:00:40.20 - 00:00:47.19] Today, I have the pleasure of welcoming Kerry Siggins, who's the CEO of StoneAge.
[00:00:47.19 - 00:00:53.16] StoneAge is a manufacturing company recognized as a top 100 company to work for.
[00:00:53.16 - 00:00:59.17] Kerry was also named EY Entrepreneur of the Year in 2023, only recently.
[00:00:59.19 - 00:01:05.13] And she's a member of YPO, and she's also the host of two podcasts, including
[00:01:05.13 - 00:01:13.01] the wildly popular podcast Reflect Forward and she's author of the Ownership Mindset
[00:01:13.01 - 00:01:19.10] book and she's also just beginning to write her second book which is On Finding
[00:01:19.10 - 00:01:22.08] Purpose and Meaning at Work.
[00:01:22.10 - 00:01:25.04] Very welcome to the Rethink Culture podcast, Kerry.
[00:01:25.04 - 00:01:28.04] Thank you, I’m so excited to be here.
[00:01:28.07 - 00:01:31.08] So tell us a little bit about you.
[00:01:32.11 - 00:01:35.20] Firstly, who is Kerry and who is StoneAge?
[00:01:35.20 - 00:01:36.14] So.
[00:01:36.23 - 00:01:38.19] First I'm a mom.
[00:01:38.19 - 00:01:44.13] I have an 11 year old son named Jack who is just the most remarkable human being I
[00:01:44.13 - 00:01:46.17] have ever had the opportunity to know.
[00:01:46.17 - 00:01:48.04] And I love being a mom.
[00:01:48.04 - 00:01:50.13] I didn't ever want to be a mom.
[00:01:50.13 - 00:01:56.02] I thought I was never gonna have children, but luckily I rethought that decision.
[00:01:56.13 - 00:02:00.10] And so I'm a much better leader because of it.
[00:02:00.10 - 00:02:05.16] And I live in Durango, Colorado, which is where I'm from.
[00:02:05.16 - 00:02:07.10] I grew up on the Western slope of Colorado.
[00:02:07.10 - 00:02:11.19] Durango is a rural town and I love it because I'm a big mountain biker and skier
[00:02:11.19 - 00:02:13.19] and trail runner.
[00:02:13.19 - 00:02:15.04] So I love being outside.
[00:02:15.04 - 00:02:18.16] In fact, I skied in spring skiing conditions yesterday.
[00:02:18.16 - 00:02:19.22] It was amazing.
[00:02:19.22 - 00:02:21.23] And then I'm a leader.
[00:02:21.23 - 00:02:23.19] I love leadership.
[00:02:23.19 - 00:02:25.10] I love impact.
[00:02:25.10 - 00:02:27.04] I love disruption.
[00:02:27.05 - 00:02:34.10] I love building companies and so I have this opportunity to lead and build this
[00:02:34.10 - 00:02:39.16] amazing company, StoneAge, which is an employee-owned company and it's where my
[00:02:39.16 - 00:02:40.17] passion lies.
[00:02:40.17 - 00:02:46.02] It's helping people be their very best so that we can grow together and really bring
[00:02:46.02 - 00:02:50.02] value to our customers, which helps the company grow itself.
[00:02:50.02 - 00:02:52.01] So that's a little bit about me.
[00:02:52.01 - 00:02:56.17] And StoneAge is a manufacturer of industrial cleaning equipment, water
[00:02:56.17 - 00:02:57.14] jetting equipment.
[00:02:57.14 - 00:03:01.10] So basically high tech squirt guns on steroids.
[00:03:01.16 - 00:03:08.13] So we build nozzles and robotic systems that uses high pressure water to clean
[00:03:08.13 - 00:03:13.05] industrial manufacturing facilities like refineries and petrochem plants, food
[00:03:13.05 - 00:03:16.20] processing plants, anywhere you'd use ultra high pressure water to clean.
[00:03:16.22 - 00:03:20.16] We also are very big into technology.
[00:03:20.16 - 00:03:25.23] We own an IoT product development company called Breadware.
[00:03:26.01 - 00:03:27.14] IoT is Internet of Things.
[00:03:27.14 - 00:03:33.16] It's building smart devices and they help industrial OEMs like StoneAge's clients
[00:03:33.16 - 00:03:40.10] and like StoneAge build smart solutions for industrial applications.
[00:03:40.10 - 00:03:41.20] That's a little bit about the company.
[00:03:41.20 - 00:03:43.22] We're 45 years old.
[00:03:43.22 - 00:03:51.05] So I took over in 2007 from the founders and led us through the transition to an
[00:03:51.05 - 00:03:53.16] ESOP, which is Employee Stock Ownership Plan.
[00:03:53.19 - 00:03:58.20] And now the founders are completely bought out of the company and we own it.
[00:03:58.20 - 00:04:01.04] So that's a little bit about StoneAge.
[00:04:01.07 - 00:04:07.19] So we'll get to the StoneAge culture, but before that, tell us a bit about you and
[00:04:07.19 - 00:04:11.22] how you, like where you grew up and what were some of your influences that led you
[00:04:11.22 - 00:04:16.04] to be an entrepreneur and care about building a solid culture?
[00:04:16.13 - 00:04:20.19] So I grew up in rural Colorado, small little town, which I spent my whole life
[00:04:20.19 - 00:04:23.07] trying to figure out how to get out of.
[00:04:23.19 - 00:04:27.13] Funny that life brings me back to home.
[00:04:27.19 - 00:04:35.19] But I really grew up loving to work, watching all of my family work really hard.
[00:04:35.19 - 00:04:41.13] My mother was a single mother and she worked three jobs to make ends meet.
[00:04:41.13 - 00:04:46.14] And she, and when I was 12, she decided that she wanted to go to college.
[00:04:46.14 - 00:04:51.02] She didn't have a college education because she had learned that her passion
[00:04:51.02 - 00:04:55.17] was teaching by volunteering in the classroom for my brother and me.
[00:04:55.17 - 00:05:01.05] And so she put herself through school, driving 60 miles each way to another town
[00:05:01.05 - 00:05:06.19] where there was a college and working to be able to pursue her dream.
[00:05:06.19 - 00:05:08.19] My grandfather was also an entrepreneur.
[00:05:08.19 - 00:05:15.10] He left retail, he was very high up in the JCPenney company in the 70s, but he wanted
[00:05:15.10 - 00:05:18.02] to own his own sporting goods store and move out west.
[00:05:18.02 - 00:05:23.01] And so he left the Midwest and moved to Colorado to follow his dream.
[00:05:23.01 - 00:05:28.13] And so he had three sporting goods stores across the western slope of Colorado.
[00:05:28.13 - 00:05:31.10] And I began working there when I was 11 years old.
[00:05:31.10 - 00:05:34.23] And so I was just surrounded by work.
[00:05:34.23 - 00:05:37.23] So work ethic is a really big part of
[00:05:37.23 - 00:05:41.01] of my value system.
[00:05:41.07 - 00:05:46.22] And so I think it comes from watching my mom work so hard to create a living for
[00:05:46.22 - 00:05:51.10] herself and follow her passion and being inspired by my grandfather's
[00:05:51.10 - 00:05:59.01] entrepreneurial journey and how he gave up a really cushy job to take this big risk
[00:05:59.01 - 00:06:02.19] and move his family of six to Colorado to follow his dream too.
[00:06:03.02 - 00:06:09.04] So was StoneAge your first entrepreneurial venture or was there something before that?
[00:06:09.04 - 00:06:10.13] No, it was StoneAge.
[00:06:11.16 - 00:06:14.16] I wasn't sure what I was meant to do.
[00:06:14.16 - 00:06:17.16] I was pretty lost through my teens and 20s.
[00:06:17.16 - 00:06:20.02] Not unheard of, right?
[00:06:20.02 - 00:06:22.20] We're all trying to figure out what we're supposed to do.
[00:06:22.22 - 00:06:28.13] And so I was trying to just drift along figuring out where I fit.
[00:06:28.16 - 00:06:30.13] But I always knew I was a leader.
[00:06:30.13 - 00:06:35.07] My mom actually said I came out of the womb being the CEO of the family.
[00:06:35.07 - 00:06:36.04] And so.
[00:06:36.04 - 00:06:41.05] I was naturally drawn to leadership positions and I always took on leadership
[00:06:41.05 - 00:06:46.08] roles, whether that was in collegiate sports or within my company.
[00:06:46.19 - 00:06:50.11] So leadership was something that was the thread through all of it.
[00:06:50.11 - 00:06:55.14] But honestly, I didn't know if I had any kinds of good enough ideas to start
[00:06:55.14 - 00:06:57.05] companies and what that meant.
[00:06:57.05 - 00:07:01.16] I didn't have that confidence in myself until I came to StoneAge.
[00:07:01.16 - 00:07:04.16] And so that's where I really began to
[00:07:04.16 - 00:07:07.02] learn that I truly was an entrepreneur.
[00:07:07.02 - 00:07:11.16] So, and then, what was the transition at StoneAge?
[00:07:11.16 - 00:07:16.22] Like, how did you take over the helm and when did culture become important?
[00:07:17.13 - 00:07:25.01] So I moved to Durango at the end of 2006 and my life was a complete mess and I came
[00:07:25.01 - 00:07:27.19] back home to rebuild my life.
[00:07:28.10 - 00:07:32.01] And I met with the founders, they were looking for a general manager.
[00:07:32.01 - 00:07:36.13] They had grown the company to where they really thought that they could take it.
[00:07:36.13 - 00:07:41.17] They were two engineers and they built this $10 million company and now they were
[00:07:41.17 - 00:07:42.22] ready to go do something different.
[00:07:42.22 - 00:07:46.07] They had done that over about 27 years.
[00:07:46.10 - 00:07:51.04] And so even though I was under qualified for the position, I decided that I was
[00:07:51.04 - 00:07:52.22] going to put my name in the hat.
[00:07:53.01 - 00:07:59.01] I had studied engineering, I had studied business, I had been working in
[00:07:59.01 - 00:08:00.19] manufacturing operations.
[00:08:00.19 - 00:08:05.05] So I thought, you know, I'm just gonna take a bet on myself and apply.
[00:08:05.05 - 00:08:09.04] And if I don't get the job, maybe it'll be my foot in the door for another position
[00:08:09.04 - 00:08:10.05] in the company.
[00:08:10.05 - 00:08:12.22] In Durango, there's not a lot of great jobs, so.
[00:08:12.22 - 00:08:18.05] I was like, I'm going to try and see if at least I can start working for the only
[00:08:18.05 - 00:08:22.01] real manufacturing company in Durango.
[00:08:22.13 - 00:08:26.22] And so I met with the founders and I thought there's no way they're going to hire me.
[00:08:26.22 - 00:08:30.19] But ultimately they decided to take a risk and they wanted something different with
[00:08:30.19 - 00:08:38.10] their company and they saw passion and drive and intelligence and potential.
[00:08:38.10 - 00:08:41.22] And so they said, all right, we're going to do this.
[00:08:42.01 - 00:08:44.19] So I started off as director of operations.
[00:08:44.19 - 00:08:47.11] A year and a half I moved into the general manager role,
[00:08:47.11 - 00:08:49.07] and a year and a half after that into the CEO role.
[00:08:49.07 - 00:08:56.16] So about three years after I started, I had been promoted through that kind of transition.
[00:08:57.16 - 00:09:03.22] And I always thought about culture because I worked in some really bad cultures.
[00:09:03.22 - 00:09:09.02] In fact, the company that I worked at before I came back home was really toxic.
[00:09:09.02 - 00:09:11.14] And that mixed with
[00:09:11.14 - 00:09:16.19] my mental health issues was really, really bad for me.
[00:09:16.19 - 00:09:21.13] And I went to some really dark places and I knew that I wanted to be part of a
[00:09:21.13 - 00:09:26.01] company that cared about culture and that I felt like I belonged in that culture.
[00:09:26.01 - 00:09:30.10] So it was very important to me, even though I didn't know how to really build a
[00:09:30.10 - 00:09:35.13] culture back then, I had just knew what I was hoping to be able to find.
[00:09:35.20 - 00:09:36.10] So.
[00:09:36.10 - 00:09:39.13] The journey started early, but I mean, I'm still figuring it out, right?
[00:09:39.13 - 00:09:41.07] It's always an evolution.
[00:09:41.07 - 00:09:45.07] Culture is always evolving and it ebbs and it flows.
[00:09:45.07 - 00:09:49.23] And so it's something that I'm really passionate about, but still continuously
[00:09:49.23 - 00:09:52.22] work on to make sure that we're a great place to work.
[00:09:53.04 - 00:09:59.13] What was one of the first things you decided to change and that was not an
[00:09:59.13 - 00:10:01.16] intuitive or an incremental change?
[00:10:01.16 - 00:10:02.23] What was a bold move?
[00:10:03.14 - 00:10:05.08] About myself or about the company?
[00:10:05.08 - 00:10:06.14] About the company.
[00:10:07.16 - 00:10:13.07] So there are a couple things.
[00:10:13.07 - 00:10:18.16] When I first started, the company was not organized very well.
[00:10:18.16 - 00:10:23.04] The founders are brilliant engineers and they're both very amiable.
[00:10:23.04 - 00:10:26.01] They did not like to deal with conflict.
[00:10:26.01 - 00:10:31.04] And so if a person wasn't performing, they wouldn't let that person go.
[00:10:31.04 - 00:10:36.08] And they would just say, okay, well, another person can come in and do these things.
[00:10:36.08 - 00:10:41.19] And so it was this really fragmented organization and kind of messy
[00:10:41.19 - 00:10:44.22] and not clear roles and responsibilities.
[00:10:44.23 - 00:10:52.01] And I had never, I had never reorganized a company, but I realized in
[00:10:52.01 - 00:10:54.01] that first six months, this is not working.
[00:10:54.01 - 00:10:57.13] We have people who are in key positions, who aren't performing.
[00:10:57.13 - 00:11:01.13] We have people who have disjointed roles, like this doesn't make sense.
[00:11:01.13 - 00:11:05.07] And so I had to come up with a whole reorg.
[00:11:05.07 - 00:11:09.05] And so I wouldn't say that it wasn't intuitive because I could see it wasn't
[00:11:09.05 - 00:11:12.02] working, but I definitely didn't know what I was doing.
[00:11:12.02 - 00:11:17.07] And so I really leaned on my fellow teammates.
[00:11:17.13 - 00:11:22.01] Even though I was their boss, they had been with the company much longer than me.
[00:11:22.01 - 00:11:23.16] They knew the industry.
[00:11:23.16 - 00:11:26.10] Many of them had many, many more years of experience.
[00:11:26.10 - 00:11:26.20] So...
[00:11:26.20 - 00:11:29.10] I just sat down, I partnered with them and said, what do you think?
[00:11:29.10 - 00:11:30.16] How should we solve this problem?
[00:11:30.16 - 00:11:32.19] How should we split up these roles?
[00:11:33.07 - 00:11:38.19] And so together we came up with a much better org structure and we made that
[00:11:38.19 - 00:11:40.13] change in the first six months I was there.
[00:11:40.13 - 00:11:45.11] So it was pretty disruptive to the team, but it got us on a foundation to really
[00:11:45.11 - 00:11:47.22] solve some of the problems that needed to be solved.
[00:11:48.01 - 00:11:50.11] And how did you...
[00:11:50.11 - 00:11:54.01] How and why did you decide to move to an employee-owned structure?
[00:11:54.19 - 00:12:02.07] So the company was actually employee-owned when I was there, but it was a homegrown
[00:12:02.07 - 00:12:05.22] program where employees could invest their own money in the company.
[00:12:05.22 - 00:12:08.01] So a skin in the game program.
[00:12:08.01 - 00:12:12.05] It wasn't truly a who owns this company, especially because the founders still
[00:12:12.05 - 00:12:14.19] owned the majority of it.
[00:12:14.19 - 00:12:20.16] When I came on board, employees had bought about 25 % of the company, but it was just dilutionary.
[00:12:20.16 - 00:12:22.16] The founders weren't actually looking to sell out.
[00:12:22.16 - 00:12:24.07] They were just looking to,
[00:12:24.07 - 00:12:30.01] a way to generate cash, to be honest, without having to go to the bank and a way
[00:12:30.01 - 00:12:35.08] to share with the employees the success that the company had had.
[00:12:36.04 - 00:12:37.07] So it was great.
[00:12:37.07 - 00:12:39.10] It was a really great program.
[00:12:39.13 - 00:12:44.19] But it was like an investment, not necessarily a true ownership structure.
[00:12:44.19 - 00:12:51.19] And in 2013, the founders are now in their mid-60s and both are looking to exit.
[00:12:51.19 - 00:12:54.07] you know, exit more and more out of the business.
[00:12:54.07 - 00:13:00.14] And I said, we have to do something that actually has a structure.
[00:13:00.14 - 00:13:03.04] If the two of you die, who owns this company?
[00:13:03.04 - 00:13:07.04] You know, a machinist who has been investing in the company for 20 years, he
[00:13:07.04 - 00:13:11.01] loves the feeling of ownership, but he doesn't really want to own the company and
[00:13:11.01 - 00:13:12.20] all of the responsibilities that come with it.
[00:13:12.20 - 00:13:14.16] We need a real structure.
[00:13:14.16 - 00:13:18.04] And so we debated, do we do a management buyout?
[00:13:18.04 - 00:13:19.23] Do we do an ESOP?
[00:13:19.23 - 00:13:21.10] What does this look like?
[00:13:21.10 - 00:13:24.23] And ultimately we decided to do an ESOP, which is an employee stock ownership
[00:13:24.23 - 00:13:30.16] program, where you create a trust, it buys the shares, and then you have a trustee
[00:13:30.16 - 00:13:35.01] who manages that trust, and then the board of directors really oversees everything.
[00:13:35.01 - 00:13:39.16] And so it really made a lot of sense to us because it gave us a mechanism to truly be
[00:13:39.16 - 00:13:44.19] able to buy out the founders and have this ownership structure without it actually
[00:13:44.19 - 00:13:48.17] falling on the largest shareholder who didn't really wanna, you know,
[00:13:48.17 - 00:13:51.07] the responsibility of owning a company.
[00:13:51.13 - 00:13:54.20] And so, and it allowed everybody to be able to participate in ownership instead
[00:13:54.20 - 00:13:59.13] of just those who had money or who were comfortable taking a risk investing in the company.
[00:13:59.13 - 00:14:00.20] So that's how we went through it.
[00:14:00.20 - 00:14:08.22] And so in 2015, on January 1st, we became an ESOP and we bought out all of our non
[00:14:08.22 - 00:14:13.11] -founder employee shareholders and our founders over the next seven years and
[00:14:13.11 - 00:14:16.13] became 100 % ESOP in 2022.
[00:14:16.13 - 00:14:21.10] And what did this mean over time for the people working at StoneAge?
[00:14:21.11 - 00:14:30.01] What changes did you see as a result of that legal, you know, shared change?
[00:14:30.07 - 00:14:33.13] Yeah, it's really been, it's really been fantastic.
[00:14:33.13 - 00:14:37.07] But it's like we talked about earlier, it's been an evolution.
[00:14:37.07 - 00:14:41.19] When we had a skin in the game program, it was very real, right?
[00:14:41.19 - 00:14:45.04] People are putting their own money into the company and they're getting
[00:14:45.04 - 00:14:48.16] distributions and they're seeing that stock price increase.
[00:14:49.01 - 00:14:53.14] And so, you know, it already had created this sense of kind of
[00:14:53.14 - 00:14:56.08] responsibility of like, okay, you know,
[00:14:56.08 - 00:14:57.16] Are we really spending money on this?
[00:14:57.16 - 00:14:58.19] Are we going to hire this person?
[00:14:58.19 - 00:15:01.16] We need to hire this person because they were owners.
[00:15:01.16 - 00:15:08.13] When we moved to the ESOP, it's now basically a retired, a managed retirement
[00:15:08.13 - 00:15:13.11] benefit, which we do not talk about it as a retirement benefit, but that's
[00:15:13.11 - 00:15:15.10] ultimately how it's managed.
[00:15:15.22 - 00:15:19.05] And it didn't have that same feel.
[00:15:19.05 - 00:15:23.05] And so people kind of lost to the, in those early years, that feeling of what
[00:15:23.05 - 00:15:24.13] does this mean?
[00:15:24.13 - 00:15:30.05] And so we had to be really intentional about building out what it means to be an
[00:15:30.05 - 00:15:33.01] owner in an ESOP. And how it actually happened,
[00:15:33.01 - 00:15:37.16] this intentional building of our culture and helping people think and act
[00:15:37.16 - 00:15:42.22] like owners came from an employee who we were letting go because he was a toxic
[00:15:42.22 - 00:15:43.13] high performer.
[00:15:43.13 - 00:15:47.04] You know, the person who's really good at their job, but is a jerk to work with.
[00:15:47.07 - 00:15:50.19] And when we were letting him go, we talked about not being a great teammate.
[00:15:50.19 - 00:15:54.07] And he said, well, where does it say be a great teammate in my job description?
[00:15:54.07 - 00:15:57.17] Like I was doing everything in my job description well.
[00:15:57.19 - 00:16:02.22] And that's when I realized that, it was going, it was this unspoken thing,
[00:16:02.22 - 00:16:03.05] right?
[00:16:03.05 - 00:16:06.13] Like you and I talked about in the pre-show, it's a small C, like what are the
[00:16:06.13 - 00:16:09.08] behaviors people are exhibiting within the culture?
[00:16:09.08 - 00:16:12.14] And I realized we needed this to be really intentional.
[00:16:12.14 - 00:16:16.17] So we went out and built the own it mindset, which is our values instead of behaviors.
[00:16:16.17 - 00:16:21.10] And that's where things transformed because people could clearly understand
[00:16:21.10 - 00:16:23.07] this is how I'm going to be successful.
[00:16:23.07 - 00:16:24.16] This is what I'm responsible for.
[00:16:24.16 - 00:16:26.22] This is what I'm not responsible for.
[00:16:26.22 - 00:16:28.16] And people really leaned into it.
[00:16:28.16 - 00:16:32.20] And that's why we win awards every year for being a top company to work for is
[00:16:32.20 - 00:16:36.07] that our employees really do own it.
[00:16:36.07 - 00:16:40.07] And there are tremendous benefits that come along with that.
[00:16:40.07 - 00:16:47.01] When people feel like they have control over their work and that they matter to the company.
[00:16:47.07 - 00:16:51.22] So those are some of the kind of the high level things that I've seen since we've done it.
[00:16:51.22 - 00:16:58.01] So what's the story of employee ownership or ownership mindset?
[00:16:58.01 - 00:17:08.08] How do you see examples of people who feel and act like owners and take care of the
[00:17:08.08 - 00:17:11.14] business, you know, when you take care of them?
[00:17:11.14 - 00:17:15.02] Yeah, I see it every day in small and big ways.
[00:17:15.07 - 00:17:21.07] A big way that we saw it is in 2020, we had a ransomware attack.
[00:17:21.07 - 00:17:25.01] So all of our IT systems were completely shut down.
[00:17:25.01 - 00:17:33.04] And once we figured out that we had been hacked and I called in 25 of my top, like
[00:17:33.04 - 00:17:37.04] just rock star employees, people who had been with the company for a long time.
[00:17:37.04 - 00:17:40.14] people who understood technology, people who could build databases.
[00:17:40.17 - 00:17:46.13] And I said to them, the 25 of you have to figure out how to run our business so our
[00:17:46.13 - 00:17:48.04] customers don't feel a thing.
[00:17:48.13 - 00:17:54.07] I'm gonna work with our attorneys and the cybersecurity teams and the forensics team
[00:17:54.07 - 00:17:55.19] to figure out what happened.
[00:17:55.19 - 00:17:59.08] You guys come up with a plan so that our customers don't feel a thing.
[00:17:59.08 - 00:18:00.13] And they did it.
[00:18:00.13 - 00:18:06.07] And it took us four weeks to be able to get our business back up and running.
[00:18:06.07 - 00:18:10.04] And we shipped all but four orders manually.
[00:18:11.08 - 00:18:17.19] And it was the most remarkable example of teamwork that I've ever seen.
[00:18:17.19 - 00:18:24.07] People whose jobs were not in order fulfillment or customer service, standing
[00:18:24.07 - 00:18:28.20] side by side with their fellow employee owners, making sure
[00:18:28.20 - 00:18:33.02] that our customers got what they needed because they relied on us and they were
[00:18:33.02 - 00:18:35.08] going into what we call turnaround season, right?
[00:18:35.08 - 00:18:37.17] So when they do all their work, they needed us.
[00:18:37.17 - 00:18:42.02] And they also all understood that if the company didn't bounce back from this, this
[00:18:42.02 - 00:18:45.04] was, this is their jobs, their livelihood.
[00:18:45.08 - 00:18:51.13] And they did such a remarkable job to not miss any order but four,
[00:18:51.13 - 00:18:55.16] and to do it during one of the biggest, I mean, we were so busy.
[00:18:55.16 - 00:18:59.08] We had our biggest shipping week in our history at that time.
[00:18:59.08 - 00:19:04.04] And it made me emotional walking around and seeing the camaraderie and seeing the
[00:19:04.04 - 00:19:08.13] iterative problem solving as we worked out the bugs to really create this process
[00:19:08.13 - 00:19:15.02] that we could track and ultimately be able to put back into the system when we came
[00:19:15.02 - 00:19:16.10] back up and running.
[00:19:16.13 - 00:19:20.17] It was remarkable and I truly do not believe that we would have gotten through
[00:19:20.17 - 00:19:24.22] that as smoothly as we would have if people didn't feel like they owned it.
[00:19:25.01 - 00:19:33.10] So if you were to help another company in creating and instilling ownership mindset,
[00:19:34.08 - 00:19:36.02] what's the pathway?
[00:19:36.02 - 00:19:42.20] What are the key points that you would advise them to take?
[00:19:43.01 - 00:19:47.14] Sure, so the first is you have to have a vision of what you want to create, right?
[00:19:47.14 - 00:19:49.04] You have to have your own it mindset.
[00:19:49.04 - 00:19:50.13] What are you trying to create?
[00:19:50.13 - 00:19:54.23] You have to have something that employees can anchor themselves to and that you can
[00:19:54.23 - 00:19:56.10] create accountability there.
[00:19:56.10 - 00:20:03.01] It was hard for us to create that accountability on our unspoken values, so to speak.
[00:20:03.04 - 00:20:08.01] And so creating that vision of this is the kind of company we want to be, this is the
[00:20:08.01 - 00:20:09.19] type of culture that we want.
[00:20:09.19 - 00:20:14.04] to have, and this is what success looks like in it for you as an individual, for
[00:20:14.04 - 00:20:18.01] the team, and then ultimately for the company for the bigger impact and beyond.
[00:20:18.01 - 00:20:19.05] That's really important.
[00:20:19.05 - 00:20:25.04] So have a clear vision and clearly define what it is you're looking for, looking to
[00:20:25.04 - 00:20:27.23] build within this ownership culture that you're creating.
[00:20:27.23 - 00:20:32.16] And on the vision, does it have to be a shared vision or can it be one that the
[00:20:32.16 - 00:20:34.22] CEO comes with and announces?
[00:20:34.22 - 00:20:36.02] What's your view?
[00:20:37.11 - 00:20:42.04] I am a big believer that a shared vision is always more effective because it's easier
[00:20:42.04 - 00:20:45.23] to get buy-in when people are creating it together.
[00:20:45.23 - 00:20:49.10] But not all companies are in a position to do that.
[00:20:49.10 - 00:20:50.14] It depends on your size.
[00:20:50.14 - 00:20:53.19] It depends on the state of your culture right now.
[00:20:54.01 - 00:21:00.07] And so it's really important that the CEO is bought into it and has that clear vision.
[00:21:00.07 - 00:21:05.04] But I think it's much better to iterate and create
[00:21:05.04 - 00:21:10.11] that shared sense of accountability and ownership by allowing other people to be
[00:21:10.11 - 00:21:11.22] part of that.
[00:21:12.05 - 00:21:13.20] I have a very clear vision.
[00:21:13.20 - 00:21:18.05] Like our vision is to create a thousand millionaires through employee ownership.
[00:21:18.16 - 00:21:20.07] That's a big goal.
[00:21:20.07 - 00:21:25.16] And so once I set that out, now the team can really work on what does that mean and
[00:21:25.16 - 00:21:26.17] how do we hit that?
[00:21:26.17 - 00:21:31.14] And it's very inspiring for people to be thinking about really changing the
[00:21:31.14 - 00:21:34.07] narrative of how capitalism works for people.
[00:21:34.07 - 00:21:34.19] So.
[00:21:34.19 - 00:21:36.10] I think it's a combination.
[00:21:36.10 - 00:21:43.01] And your vision does not relate to the impact of your products, but the impact of
[00:21:43.01 - 00:21:45.08] your company to your employees, right?
[00:21:45.08 - 00:21:48.02] So it's like unusual in that sense.
[00:21:48.02 - 00:21:48.19] It is.
[00:21:48.19 - 00:21:51.04] And we have a vision from a product side too.
[00:21:51.04 - 00:21:55.20] Don't get me wrong, but because we're employee owned, if our employees are
[00:21:55.20 - 00:21:58.22] successful, that means our customers are successful, right?
[00:21:58.22 - 00:22:01.10] That means that we're growing and we're adding value.
[00:22:01.10 - 00:22:08.13] And so, so yeah, it's definitely something that's bigger than
[00:22:08.13 - 00:22:11.19] just our products and the services that we provide.
[00:22:11.19 - 00:22:16.22] It really is being part of changing something on a much more impactful level.
[00:22:17.05 - 00:22:22.10] From a product side, we have a vision as well because that's important too for the
[00:22:22.10 - 00:22:24.10] day-to-day work that we do.
[00:22:24.16 - 00:22:31.08] But yeah, if I wouldn't have set that vision of, hey, we are here to create real
[00:22:31.08 - 00:22:38.01] value, real value, meaningful value for all of our employee owners, I don't know
[00:22:38.01 - 00:22:40.22] that that's the vision that we would have come up with, right?
[00:22:40.22 - 00:22:42.11] So I think that's why it takes both.
[00:22:42.11 - 00:22:43.17] You need to be...
[00:22:43.17 - 00:22:48.16] have a CEO who has a strong vision for the future, and then you have to work with
[00:22:48.16 - 00:22:54.13] your team to create it so it is shared and they have input and buy-in together.
[00:22:54.13 - 00:23:00.04] So I think it's really hard to sit down and just say, okay, what's our shared
[00:23:00.04 - 00:23:04.14] vision without the CEO or the founder, the leader of the company knowing where they
[00:23:04.14 - 00:23:05.05] want to go, right?
[00:23:05.05 - 00:23:07.07] People are like, okay, where are we going?
[00:23:07.07 - 00:23:08.22] Now I want to help us get there.
[00:23:08.22 - 00:23:12.04] I think that's the most effective way to do it.
[00:23:12.04 - 00:23:17.14] Doing it in a vacuum is really tough, but also not coming to the table as a leader
[00:23:17.14 - 00:23:21.16] and not saying this is where we're gonna go and why.
[00:23:21.16 - 00:23:26.04] I also think that that makes people feel adrift as well.
[00:23:26.04 - 00:23:30.02] And so once you have a vision, what's the next step to establish ownership mindset?
[00:23:30.13 - 00:23:32.20] You have to role model the ownership mindset.
[00:23:32.22 - 00:23:34.13] And I think that's the most important thing.
[00:23:34.13 - 00:23:38.16] I think a lot of leaders want their team to exhibit owning it.
[00:23:38.16 - 00:23:42.22] But I think that you have to take a real hard look at yourself and ask if you are
[00:23:42.22 - 00:23:44.07] doing the same thing.
[00:23:44.07 - 00:23:46.19] I live and breathe our values.
[00:23:46.19 - 00:23:50.04] Like there's no better evangelist within the company
[00:23:50.04 - 00:23:51.22] for the own it mindset than me.
[00:23:51.22 - 00:23:54.22] And I think every leader has to take that responsibility.
[00:23:54.22 - 00:24:00.16] If you're asking your employees to change, to do something, to care, then you have to
[00:24:00.16 - 00:24:04.08] show them that this is the way and this is why it's important.
[00:24:04.10 - 00:24:06.05] So role modeling is the second step.
[00:24:06.05 - 00:24:11.22] You gotta have a really deep conversation with yourself and say, am I willing to
[00:24:11.22 - 00:24:14.17] live these values that we said are important?
[00:24:14.17 - 00:24:18.13] Am I willing to do everything in my power to create
[00:24:18.13 - 00:24:21.22] accountability and success and all of these different things within the
[00:24:21.22 - 00:24:25.01] organization because if you don't as a leader, you can wish it to be true, but it
[00:24:25.01 - 00:24:26.08] doesn't mean that it's going to.
[00:24:26.08 - 00:24:33.10] And so vision and then role modeling is there something else?
[00:24:33.10 - 00:24:38.20] Yes, then the next step is, so once you, okay, this is the vision, this is why,
[00:24:38.20 - 00:24:43.02] here's how we're going to lead this, then you have to start working with your
[00:24:43.02 - 00:24:44.23] employees and building that trust.
[00:24:44.23 - 00:24:48.10] The foundation for all of this starts with trust.
[00:24:48.10 - 00:24:52.04] And a lot of employees don't trust leadership, a lot of leadership doesn't
[00:24:52.04 - 00:24:57.05] trust their employees, and you cannot inspire ownership thinking if you don't have trust.
[00:24:57.05 - 00:24:57.16] So.
[00:24:57.16 - 00:25:01.16] You know, that means that you have to take the time to get to know people and to
[00:25:01.16 - 00:25:03.08] understand their hopes and their dreams.
[00:25:03.08 - 00:25:05.07] And that's the hard part of culture, right?
[00:25:05.07 - 00:25:07.16] That's the part that takes a lot of time.
[00:25:07.16 - 00:25:12.01] You can talk about all these things, but if you truly don't get to know your
[00:25:12.01 - 00:25:17.11] employees and to start to build that trust, then you can't go make all of the
[00:25:17.11 - 00:25:19.01] other changes that you want.
[00:25:19.01 - 00:25:22.23] So what we did at StoneAge is like, that can't be all me, right?
[00:25:22.23 - 00:25:24.10] That's not scalable.
[00:25:24.10 - 00:25:28.17] So we really had to teach all of our managers how to build these trust-based
[00:25:28.17 - 00:25:31.07] relationships within the organization.
[00:25:31.16 - 00:25:35.02] And that was the most important thing that we did.
[00:25:35.02 - 00:25:38.23] Like we couldn't go and change anything until everybody who was in management
[00:25:38.23 - 00:25:40.01] bought into it.
[00:25:40.01 - 00:25:45.16] So we created this Own It training program that taught people how to have difficult
[00:25:45.16 - 00:25:50.20] conversations, how to give feedback, how to deal with mental health issues in the
[00:25:50.20 - 00:25:54.10] workplace, how to give recognition and praise.
[00:25:54.10 - 00:25:58.19] How to have weekly one-on-ones with every employee, how to give effective
[00:25:58.19 - 00:26:03.08] performance review, have performance conversations.
[00:26:03.08 - 00:26:07.20] We built a whole training program around that really aimed at teaching managers how
[00:26:07.20 - 00:26:11.17] to build those relationships with employees to say, I care about you.
[00:26:11.17 - 00:26:14.16] So then that way that they could build that trust.
[00:26:14.20 - 00:26:19.16] And that's where I think a lot of people fall down because that takes a lot of work.
[00:26:21.05 - 00:26:22.22] A lot of work.
[00:26:22.22 - 00:26:27.10] And Kerry, I want to come back to culture, but...
[00:26:27.10 - 00:26:33.16] So we get to know you a little better, if we can digress into learning a little bit
[00:26:33.16 - 00:26:34.16] about Kerry.
[00:26:34.16 - 00:26:39.13] So we talked about this before starting the recording.
[00:26:40.04 - 00:26:44.07] What are two truths and one lie about you in no particular order?
[00:26:44.17 - 00:26:45.13] Sure.
[00:26:45.13 - 00:26:45.20] Okay.
[00:26:45.20 - 00:26:47.07] So two truths and one lie.
[00:26:47.07 - 00:26:50.14] I survived an accidental overdose.
[00:26:50.19 - 00:26:56.07] I debated between engineering school and journalism school before going to college.
[00:26:56.07 - 00:27:00.04] And I tried out to be a professional softball player.
[00:27:04.04 - 00:27:07.04] They're all fairly believable.
[00:27:07.04 - 00:27:10.11] We'll get to them at the end.
[00:27:15.07 - 00:27:18.22] Something that stood out when you introduced yourself at the beginning is
[00:27:18.22 - 00:27:27.10] how you always felt you were born to be a leader and you know you were the CEO of
[00:27:27.10 - 00:27:32.01] your household as a child so to speak.
[00:27:32.11 - 00:27:36.04] What's your leadership style and also...
[00:27:36.04 - 00:27:41.22] If we look at female versus male leadership styles, what do you think...
[00:27:41.22 - 00:27:48.04] What characteristic do you think makes you a good leader?
[00:27:50.02 - 00:27:54.10] I think the characteristic that, I don't know if there's just one.
[00:27:56.04 - 00:28:03.19] I think leaders, the very best leaders understand that their job is to unleash
[00:28:03.19 - 00:28:07.19] the potential in all of their employees.
[00:28:08.22 - 00:28:15.07] And so I think that's what makes me a leader that people wanna work for is that
[00:28:15.07 - 00:28:24.13] you're going to be on this journey to find success both in life and in your career.
[00:28:24.13 - 00:28:27.04] And I'm really committed to doing that.
[00:28:27.04 - 00:28:29.10] And that doesn't always mean that it's easy, right?
[00:28:29.10 - 00:28:35.10] There's going to be hard conversations and I've had to demote people on their path to greatness.
[00:28:35.10 - 00:28:39.07] And you've had to let people go on their path to greatness, but it is all through
[00:28:39.07 - 00:28:44.13] this lens of how do I help you be the very best person you can be so that you can
[00:28:44.13 - 00:28:46.04] show up in life wholly
[00:28:46.08 - 00:28:47.16] and fully.
[00:28:47.16 - 00:28:53.20] So I think that's probably the number one leadership trait that people like.
[00:28:53.20 - 00:28:56.19] Not everybody likes it because sometimes it's uncomfortable and I push people
[00:28:56.19 - 00:29:02.16] really hard to think about what they want with their lives and stretch themselves.
[00:29:02.16 - 00:29:08.20] But yeah, I think that's how I would define my top characteristic.
[00:29:09.11 - 00:29:16.07] Where do you stand on radical candor and this divide between tough love and compassion?
[00:29:16.17 - 00:29:18.13] I'm a huge fan of radical candor.
[00:29:18.13 - 00:29:21.16] I teach my own version of radical candor.
[00:29:21.19 - 00:29:26.22] I think it's such a great model to be able to frame this idea of I care enough about
[00:29:26.22 - 00:29:28.19] you to have this conversation.
[00:29:29.04 - 00:29:35.01] And so I'm a big believer in direct feedback, but direct doesn't mean that you
[00:29:35.01 - 00:29:36.10] have to be mean about it.
[00:29:36.10 - 00:29:41.22] You can say this, like this is going to be hard to hear, but we need to have a really
[00:29:41.22 - 00:29:43.01] direct conversation about this.
[00:29:43.01 - 00:29:46.01] And I'm telling you this because I really do care about you,
[00:29:46.01 - 00:29:48.22] and then have that feedback.
[00:29:49.13 - 00:29:54.04] And so, yeah, I use that model all the time.
[00:29:54.04 - 00:29:56.19] I don't particularly enjoy giving feedback.
[00:29:56.19 - 00:30:01.13] My personality is one that I want people to like me and certainly when you're
[00:30:01.13 - 00:30:05.10] delivering tough feedback, especially if it's, you know, when you're having to let
[00:30:05.10 - 00:30:07.02] somebody go, right?
[00:30:07.02 - 00:30:08.07] It can make people mad.
[00:30:08.07 - 00:30:09.16] It makes people not like you.
[00:30:09.16 - 00:30:14.05] And so it's not like I relish in giving feedback, but...
[00:30:14.05 - 00:30:18.19] I've spent so much time practicing giving feedback and doing it in a way that makes
[00:30:18.19 - 00:30:21.10] people feel supported and cared about.
[00:30:21.10 - 00:30:26.19] And like, they're not a failure that I feel like I do it really well now.
[00:30:26.19 - 00:30:32.10] But I think that it's a really important, it's a really important leadership trait
[00:30:32.10 - 00:30:33.04] to have to have.
[00:30:33.04 - 00:30:38.07] You have to be able to have direct, give people direct feedback, but you don't have
[00:30:38.07 - 00:30:38.19] to be a jerk.
[00:30:38.19 - 00:30:42.11] You can do it in a way that people know that they're cared about.
[00:30:42.11 - 00:30:47.08] And so for those that don't know about radical candor, it's two elements, right?
[00:30:47.08 - 00:30:54.22] Which is direct feedback and honest feedback and then showing you care and
[00:30:54.22 - 00:31:02.16] convincing the other person that you care, not just paying lip service, that it's all
[00:31:02.16 - 00:31:10.01] well-intended and you really care for that person.
[00:31:10.07 - 00:31:15.02] And just to make a point on that, I think that that goes back to the two points that
[00:31:15.02 - 00:31:20.04] I had made in this journey to create ownership thinking within your culture.
[00:31:20.05 - 00:31:21.10] Role modeling,
[00:31:21.19 - 00:31:27.13] and you've got to really be able to role model that you do care.
[00:31:27.13 - 00:31:30.22] And that feedback is something that's important.
[00:31:30.23 - 00:31:34.07] And then the second piece comes in with that trust.
[00:31:34.07 - 00:31:39.13] And so it's a lot easier to give impactful feedback
[00:31:39.13 - 00:31:45.22] and have people take action with it, even if it is hard to hear when they know that
[00:31:45.22 - 00:31:48.10] there's that trust in that relationship.
[00:31:48.17 - 00:31:53.07] So again, it goes back to those two foundational things of are you role
[00:31:53.07 - 00:31:57.17] modeling, effective leadership, caring leadership, and are you building those
[00:31:57.17 - 00:32:05.13] trusting relationships that make it a lot safer to receive feedback when needed.
[00:32:05.20 - 00:32:10.11] How do you build trust and trusting relationships?
[00:32:10.11 - 00:32:13.22] Like, of course, you can spend time with a person, you can have lunch or dinner
[00:32:13.22 - 00:32:18.17] together, you can have honest conversations with each other, but if you
[00:32:18.17 - 00:32:25.22] want to build trust in a team and do that over a short period of time, let's say
[00:32:25.22 - 00:32:28.14] weeks rather than months or years, how do you do that?
[00:32:28.22 - 00:32:31.01] So you set the stage, right?
[00:32:31.01 - 00:32:33.08] But these are what the expectations are.
[00:32:33.08 - 00:32:38.04] We wanna have a team that is, I say high performing and high functioning.
[00:32:38.04 - 00:32:41.16] You can have a high performing team that's getting stuff done, but isn't high
[00:32:41.16 - 00:32:44.10] functioning, like working together well.
[00:32:44.10 - 00:32:49.13] So we create operating principles for our teams.
[00:32:49.13 - 00:32:51.19] So this is how we communicate.
[00:32:51.19 - 00:32:53.08] These are the things we're responsible for.
[00:32:53.08 - 00:32:55.04] Here's how we work through problems.
[00:32:55.04 - 00:32:59.07] So really clearly defining what those expectations are so people understand, you
[00:32:59.07 - 00:33:01.07] know, this is the culture of this team.
[00:33:01.07 - 00:33:06.14] So that helps because if otherwise people are trying to navigate the dynamics and
[00:33:06.14 - 00:33:11.04] not really understanding it, then it can leave room for conflict and storytelling
[00:33:11.04 - 00:33:12.19] and all of those things.
[00:33:13.08 - 00:33:20.01] Transparency is another key attribute that you have to have as a leader.
[00:33:20.01 - 00:33:23.13] I tell my team, I'm gonna always tell you the truth.
[00:33:23.13 - 00:33:27.04] I'm always gonna tell you everything that I possibly can and if I can't tell you
[00:33:27.04 - 00:33:31.22] something, then I will tell you, I can't tell you and this is why, but that's pretty rare.
[00:33:31.22 - 00:33:37.10] And so there needs to be transparency in decision making processes, transparency in
[00:33:37.10 - 00:33:41.16] communication, sharing the why, that vision is really important, this is why
[00:33:41.16 - 00:33:45.04] we're doing this, this is why it's important and here's how it benefits you
[00:33:45.04 - 00:33:47.13] as an individual and as a team.
[00:33:47.13 - 00:33:50.13] That transparency is really important.
[00:33:50.13 - 00:33:53.07] If people know that you're going to be honest with them, I think they're more
[00:33:53.07 - 00:33:54.20] likely to lean in.
[00:33:54.20 - 00:34:00.04] So I think that's how you do it fast is by being transparent.
[00:34:00.17 - 00:34:05.19] To add to that, a couple of tools I've seen being used very effectively.
[00:34:05.20 - 00:34:13.13] One is doing a strength exercise, such as Gallup's CliftonStrengths.
[00:34:13.13 - 00:34:19.01] And there's lots of them, but what Gallup does is they give you a list of 34
[00:34:19.01 - 00:34:25.07] strengths per person, and they look at what are your strongest characteristics,
[00:34:25.07 - 00:34:28.20] but also your weakest ones, so your lowest strengths.
[00:34:28.22 - 00:34:34.05] And then you have a discussion about what is each other's strengths but also their
[00:34:34.05 - 00:34:35.17] lowest strengths, if you like.
[00:34:35.17 - 00:34:41.04] So this is the areas where you don't shine and you don't do it intentionally but this
[00:34:41.04 - 00:34:42.13] is who you are.
[00:34:42.19 - 00:34:51.22] And it's in a sense an admission of not character flaws but weak areas or less
[00:34:51.22 - 00:34:53.16] strengths by each one.
[00:34:53.16 - 00:34:56.19] And then you have eureka moments like, oh...
[00:34:56.19 - 00:35:00.22] You know, you don't have, let's say, you're not strong on empathy, which is
[00:35:00.22 - 00:35:11.04] why, like, you were a bit aloof or, like, you were too abrupt the other day when you
[00:35:11.04 - 00:35:11.16] told me this.
[00:35:11.16 - 00:35:15.01] Now I understand, there's a reason behind that.
[00:35:15.01 - 00:35:20.22] And socializing each other's weakness, I think, is a way to establish trust.
[00:35:20.22 - 00:35:22.22] I totally agree with you.
[00:35:22.22 - 00:35:24.04] And another one...
[00:35:24.04 - 00:35:28.04] Another one is something we do in Entrepreneurs’ Organization, I'm sure you
[00:35:28.04 - 00:35:31.14] also do in YPO, is lifelines.
[00:35:31.16 - 00:35:36.19] And it does require a prior relationship, but you go through, for example, the two
[00:35:36.19 - 00:35:42.14] lows, or two highest highs and two lowest lows in everyone's life in a small team,
[00:35:42.14 - 00:35:46.17] whether it's like five or six or eight people.
[00:35:46.17 - 00:35:51.01] And that creates an instant connection.
[00:35:52.20 - 00:36:01.20] And I think, you know, we talk about all sorts of ways to create connection and
[00:36:01.20 - 00:36:03.13] trust by...
[00:36:03.13 - 00:36:08.13] If you start from vulnerability-based trust, which is the school of Patrick
[00:36:08.13 - 00:36:14.01] Lencioni and Brené Brown, then I think these tools are really kind of power tools
[00:36:14.01 - 00:36:15.05] in my experience.
[00:36:15.05 - 00:36:16.05] Yeah, I totally agree.
[00:36:16.05 - 00:36:17.13] We, um, we do a lot.
[00:36:17.13 - 00:36:19.17] We actually have a life coach who works with us.
[00:36:19.17 - 00:36:24.07] Um, and we, she uses the Enneagram, which I love because it's all about
[00:36:24.07 - 00:36:25.11] understanding your triggers.
[00:36:25.11 - 00:36:32.14] And so we put 12 people through each year, through this intense coaching program.
[00:36:32.14 - 00:36:36.02] And one of the things that we've just started implementing, we use TTI DISC
[00:36:36.02 - 00:36:37.22] profiles, as well.
[00:36:37.22 - 00:36:43.07] But we just started implementing Patrick Lencioni's new, the six geniuses
[00:36:43.07 - 00:36:44.05] of work.
[00:36:44.10 - 00:36:47.04] And I absolutely love it.
[00:36:47.04 - 00:36:47.17] I love it.
[00:36:47.17 - 00:36:48.02] I love it.
[00:36:48.02 - 00:36:53.10] I love it because it goes through how work gets done and where we need the six areas
[00:36:53.10 - 00:36:57.16] and then where we show up in our top two, then kind of the things that we're
[00:36:57.16 - 00:37:00.17] competent at and then the things that we, you know, that we really
[00:37:00.17 - 00:37:01.19] dislike doing.
[00:37:01.19 - 00:37:06.04] And that's been a really big game changer because, people it's, it doesn't put
[00:37:06.04 - 00:37:10.10] any of this, like, Oh, like the TTI DISC profile, like, you know, you can read it
[00:37:10.10 - 00:37:12.10] and feel like really bad about yourself.
[00:37:12.10 - 00:37:16.07] And so, you know, there's, there's lots of good things that can come from it,
[00:37:16.07 - 00:37:20.05] but if you don't have a person there coaching you through it, it can be tough.
[00:37:20.05 - 00:37:24.22] Whereas the six geniuses of work, like there is no bad, like there is, it's just
[00:37:24.22 - 00:37:30.10] like, you know, are you a wonder or are you a galvanizer or are you a, you know, enabler?
[00:37:30.10 - 00:37:34.22] And so anyway, if you haven't looked at that one, I love it.
[00:37:34.22 - 00:37:39.04] I actually just sent two of my HR people to become facilitators of it because we
[00:37:39.04 - 00:37:41.11] want to work that into the whole organization.
[00:37:42.14 - 00:37:43.16] Yeah, that's great.
[00:37:43.16 - 00:37:51.19] I've heard of that, I've heard it from several people now and it's amazing how
[00:37:51.19 - 00:37:57.16] Lencioni managed to get it spread out so widely, so quickly.
[00:37:57.16 - 00:38:00.05] Yeah, well, he’s a master at this.
[00:38:00.05 - 00:38:01.14] Yes, yeah.
[00:38:01.14 - 00:38:04.16] He’s one of the top people who do it. He’s awesome.
[00:38:04.16 - 00:38:10.04] And he's also extremely good at breaking down culture and what is important in culture.
[00:38:10.04 - 00:38:12.05] His framework of...
[00:38:12.08 - 00:38:18.17] explaining how results arrive from, if I remember correctly, from accountability
[00:38:18.17 - 00:38:29.14] and from commitment which comes from trust which comes from vulnerability, somehow in
[00:38:29.14 - 00:38:38.07] that sort of order, is like such a clear way of explaining why trust and
[00:38:38.07 - 00:38:41.10] vulnerability is the basis of...
[00:38:41.19 - 00:38:45.14] relationships of results of communication of the whole thing.
[00:38:45.22 - 00:38:50.07] Yeah, you asked me a question in the pre-show and that's, what aspects of your
[00:38:50.07 - 00:38:52.23] culture did you, you know, did you learn from somebody else?
[00:38:52.23 - 00:38:58.16] And the be a great teammate portion of the Own It mindset came directly from
[00:38:58.16 - 00:39:01.07] him and his ideal team player.
[00:39:01.07 - 00:39:05.23] And I reworked it to be able to fit into, into the StoneAge way of doing things,
[00:39:05.23 - 00:39:07.19] but it's brilliant.
[00:39:07.19 - 00:39:10.20] If you haven't read The Ideal Team Player it's so good.
[00:39:10.20 - 00:39:14.01] And it can, it's, it really, it really did help us.
[00:39:14.01 - 00:39:19.16] galvanize exactly what that meant for us and had people, gave people a path to see
[00:39:19.16 - 00:39:24.16] what success looked like and we could build training around it and all of these things.
[00:39:24.19 - 00:39:26.13] So, yeah, so I love him.
[00:39:26.13 - 00:39:31.04] I would love to meet him at some point, maybe have him on my podcast too, cause
[00:39:31.04 - 00:39:34.22] he's just, he's so brilliant and he can describe it in such a way that's easy to
[00:39:34.22 - 00:39:37.22] understand with his fables and yeah, it's good.
[00:39:38.19 - 00:39:45.16] And if we move to the new areas which you've started devoting your writing time
[00:39:45.16 - 00:39:47.13] to, which is purpose.
[00:39:49.11 - 00:39:55.17] Why is purpose important and how do you break down, like, what are the ingredients
[00:39:55.17 - 00:39:56.20] of purpose?
[00:39:57.19 - 00:39:59.14] So yeah, so I'm just starting.
[00:39:59.14 - 00:40:01.01] I'm just starting this new book.
[00:40:01.01 - 00:40:05.01] So I'm actually like building out my framework, my six step process.
[00:40:05.01 - 00:40:09.19] But, you know, where it really came from is that, you know, a lot of executives
[00:40:09.19 - 00:40:15.20] feel a lot... Executives typically would say they feel more purpose in their work and
[00:40:15.20 - 00:40:17.14] individual contributors don't.
[00:40:17.14 - 00:40:23.01] And this is not all, but in general, people who have more autonomy
[00:40:23.01 - 00:40:24.17] and decision-making authority,
[00:40:24.17 - 00:40:29.04] who have more experience, they find their work to be more purposeful.
[00:40:29.04 - 00:40:34.22] And when I was named CEO and I had, you know, done that journey, gone through that
[00:40:34.22 - 00:40:39.17] journey so quickly and coming from honestly not a very healthy place to where
[00:40:39.17 - 00:40:44.04] I was, I realized that a big part of it was because I loved what I did.
[00:40:44.04 - 00:40:47.19] I felt so much purpose in my work and so much meaning in my work.
[00:40:47.19 - 00:40:50.13] And I thought to myself,
[00:40:50.13 - 00:40:55.04] I want every person in my company to have the opportunity to feel this way about
[00:40:55.04 - 00:40:56.02] their work.
[00:40:56.02 - 00:40:59.16] How do we make every job feel meaningful?
[00:40:59.16 - 00:41:03.22] And how do we make sure that we are finding people whose talents and desires
[00:41:03.22 - 00:41:06.07] and goals align with that role?
[00:41:06.13 - 00:41:09.07] And so that's where all of this has come from.
[00:41:09.07 - 00:41:13.13] And I'm really lucky because I do have so much purpose and meaning in my work.
[00:41:13.13 - 00:41:16.01] And so I want to be able to tell these stories.
[00:41:16.01 - 00:41:22.13] And so I'm building out a six step process for understanding, for finding that
[00:41:22.13 - 00:41:28.01] purpose for those people who are like, I'm just not happy doing what I'm doing and
[00:41:28.01 - 00:41:29.19] really building that out.
[00:41:29.20 - 00:41:35.02] So I'm not gonna share my six steps right now because I'm still developing those
[00:41:35.02 - 00:41:41.08] right now, but here in about six months, I think that framework should be really
[00:41:41.08 - 00:41:42.16] built out.
[00:41:42.22 - 00:41:45.08] But it is about exploring.
[00:41:45.08 - 00:41:47.19] It's about understanding yourself, right?
[00:41:47.19 - 00:41:49.13] Your strengths, your weaknesses, what you want.
[00:41:49.13 - 00:41:51.13] It's about having that vision for yourself.
[00:41:51.13 - 00:41:53.10] It's about exploring different things.
[00:41:53.10 - 00:41:56.14] I tell people, don't be afraid to have crappy jobs, right?
[00:41:56.14 - 00:41:59.13] That's how we learn what we don't want.
[00:42:00.01 - 00:42:03.07] It's about mastery and getting good at something.
[00:42:03.08 - 00:42:06.19] We do find more purpose when we are really good at something.
[00:42:06.19 - 00:42:10.23] So that's how I'm starting to think through this framework.
[00:42:12.13 - 00:42:17.22] And as we wrap the podcast, I have a couple of questions I asked my guests.
[00:42:18.05 - 00:42:22.22] So firstly, what do you think we need to rethink about culture?
[00:42:22.22 - 00:42:29.11] In other words, what would you tell a leader who is not intentional about their
[00:42:29.11 - 00:42:35.10] culture and is pretty much on a culture by default path?
[00:42:35.14 - 00:42:38.16] Yeah, culture by default is a bad place to be.
[00:42:38.19 - 00:42:45.11] And so what I would tell, what I would tell a leader is that, you know, culture
[00:42:45.11 - 00:42:48.22] starts with you, but it's made up of the collective.
[00:42:48.22 - 00:42:54.08] And so you have to set the tone for it and be that role model.
[00:42:54.08 - 00:42:58.19] And then you have to inspire people to be their greatest.
[00:42:59.01 - 00:43:01.13] Don't be afraid to put your people first.
[00:43:01.13 - 00:43:04.11] Right, to have our vision be to create a thousand millionaires, right?
[00:43:04.11 - 00:43:09.04] That isn't about our customers, but we are never going to be that kind of company
[00:43:09.04 - 00:43:13.05] that builds that kind of wealth and that kind of value if we aren't doing a really
[00:43:13.05 - 00:43:15.11] good job of solving our customers' problems.
[00:43:15.11 - 00:43:20.01] And I think so many leaders are afraid to put their employees first.
[00:43:20.01 - 00:43:23.19] And you have to, you have to be intentional about it.
[00:43:23.19 - 00:43:25.13] You have to bring people along.
[00:43:25.13 - 00:43:28.17] You have to remember that the culture is made up of the collective
[00:43:28.19 - 00:43:31.23] and everybody either adds to it or takes away from it.
[00:43:31.23 - 00:43:35.07] And you are the person who is setting that tone.
[00:43:35.07 - 00:43:39.04] So don't tolerate people who are taking away from the culture.
[00:43:39.04 - 00:43:42.10] Do not let toxic people stay in your culture.
[00:43:42.13 - 00:43:45.13] Build people up and role model it yourself.
[00:43:45.13 - 00:43:47.01] You are that beacon.
[00:43:47.01 - 00:43:49.04] You should be the culture evangelist.
[00:43:49.04 - 00:43:53.02] If you aren't, then I think that you are really missing out on an opportunity to
[00:43:53.02 - 00:43:55.16] build a lasting, strong company.
[00:43:56.10 - 00:44:01.17] And if you were to go to an earlier version of yourself, let's say when you
[00:44:01.17 - 00:44:11.22] started as operations director at StoneAge, what would you tell the earlier Kerry?
[00:44:12.17 - 00:44:17.07] Uh, being cool, calm, and collected is such a much better way to lead.
[00:44:17.07 - 00:44:24.07] Um, I'm a very passionate person and, I move fast and I have very high
[00:44:24.07 - 00:44:29.20] expectations of people and I am very disruptive and that can, that can make
[00:44:29.20 - 00:44:37.01] people feel, um, you know, there's, it can come with a lot of pressure and
[00:44:37.01 - 00:44:42.14] so, I have, as I've matured as a leader, I have become
[00:44:42.14 - 00:44:46.13] you know, much more unflappable in my leadership style.
[00:44:46.13 - 00:44:50.07] And so I would go back and tell my younger self that like, just be cool,
[00:44:50.07 - 00:44:50.23] calm, and collected.
[00:44:50.23 - 00:44:52.14] Like just don't let stuff bother you.
[00:44:52.14 - 00:44:56.19] And you're going to be so much easier to give feedback to and, and talk to and all
[00:44:56.19 - 00:44:57.20] of these things.
[00:44:57.20 - 00:45:00.07] So, uh, that's what I would tell myself.
[00:45:00.07 - 00:45:06.08] And there's this word I learned recently which is equanimity, which is how to deal
[00:45:06.08 - 00:45:17.22] with the challenges life brings you with calmness and just serenity and patience.
[00:45:18.13 - 00:45:23.07] Freaking out never makes anything better, ever, ever.
[00:45:23.07 - 00:45:29.08] It might feel good to have that dopamine hit for a minute, but then there's the
[00:45:29.08 - 00:45:34.10] aftermath of how you make people feel and how they experience you.
[00:45:34.10 - 00:45:36.01] And I just heard this great, great quote.
[00:45:36.01 - 00:45:43.14] I was just in Miami for YPO's leadership, a global leadership conference, GLC, and
[00:45:43.14 - 00:45:51.22] this amazing YPOer gave a speech and she said, leadership is not how people
[00:45:51.22 - 00:45:57.08] experience you, it's how they experience themselves in the presence of you.
[00:45:57.10 - 00:45:59.05] And I can still get goosebumps.
[00:45:59.05 - 00:46:05.19] It was such a brilliant line and it's so true because people can experience you and
[00:46:05.19 - 00:46:09.10] they can be like, oh, that person's inspiring or that person's a jerk or
[00:46:09.10 - 00:46:11.07] confusing or whatever it is.
[00:46:11.07 - 00:46:16.10] But then it's not really about you, it's then about what do they go and do with that.
[00:46:16.17 - 00:46:26.14] And so I love that because I want people to experience themselves as capable and
[00:46:26.14 - 00:46:33.19] talented and believed in and that they can go do hard things.
[00:46:33.19 - 00:46:35.10] And that isn't about me, right?
[00:46:35.10 - 00:46:40.14] That's about how do I inspire them to feel that in themselves and to go after their dreams.
[00:46:40.14 - 00:46:43.02] And so anyway, I just thought it was a brilliant quote and I'm going to use it
[00:46:43.02 - 00:46:46.01] all the time, uh, because it's so true.
[00:46:46.01 - 00:46:50.10] And I think so many leaders do not think of it, leadership, like that.
[00:46:51.01 - 00:46:56.11] Is there something you would recommend us to walk away and check out like a book or
[00:46:56.11 - 00:47:01.19] a movie or something you read or were inspired by recently?
[00:47:01.23 - 00:47:04.10] Gosh, I am such an avid reader.
[00:47:04.10 - 00:47:05.14] I really do.
[00:47:05.14 - 00:47:09.20] I'm like totally sold on this six geniuses of work.
[00:47:09.20 - 00:47:13.10] So I highly recommend all leaders go out and read it.
[00:47:13.10 - 00:47:20.10] I saw myself in it and it just gave so much clarity.
[00:47:20.16 - 00:47:26.07] So and then, yeah, it's definitely a great framework to be able to start to think
[00:47:26.07 - 00:47:29.14] about how work gets done in your company and how you align people
[00:47:29.14 - 00:47:33.22] with what they're good at in the chain of how things get done.
[00:47:33.22 - 00:47:38.11] So I would highly recommend that book by Patrick Lencioni.
[00:47:39.04 - 00:47:40.22] I will check it out.
[00:47:40.22 - 00:47:41.19] Good.
[00:47:41.19 - 00:47:46.23] And before we close, Kerry, what was the truth or what were the truths and what was
[00:47:46.23 - 00:47:47.22] the lie?
[00:47:47.22 - 00:47:53.10] All right, so the truths were I survived an accidental overdose and that I debated
[00:47:53.10 - 00:47:57.07] between engineering and journalism school for college.
[00:47:57.07 - 00:48:00.17] And the lie was I tried out to be a professional softball player.
[00:48:00.17 - 00:48:04.16] I love softball, but I'm just, I'm not anywhere near that good.
[00:48:05.19 - 00:48:09.17] Yeah, and with the accidental overdose I can see the earlier struggles you went
[00:48:09.17 - 00:48:15.07] through and how that must have changed you as a person and made you stronger.
[00:48:15.19 - 00:48:19.19] It was the best thing that ever could have happened to me, even though it was horrible.
[00:48:19.19 - 00:48:23.04] It was at one of those inflection points in life.
[00:48:23.08 - 00:48:24.07] Indeed.
[00:48:24.19 - 00:48:29.07] And I think none of us wants these inflection points, like my inflection
[00:48:29.07 - 00:48:30.19] point was my divorce.
[00:48:31.11 - 00:48:39.07] But thanks to my divorce, and without being the one that caused it, I see it as a gift.
[00:48:39.13 - 00:48:44.04] Because now I'm living the second version of my life, which is a much more
[00:48:44.04 - 00:48:47.08] fulfilling life, much closer to my true self.
[00:48:47.13 - 00:48:51.07] And it's something I didn't want, something that was...
[00:48:51.22 - 00:48:57.08] given or gifted and I'm thankful that that it happened.
[00:48:57.16 - 00:49:01.17] Yeah, you know, when you can find gratitude in the hard things, that's where
[00:49:01.17 - 00:49:03.13] the secret sauce of life is, right?
[00:49:03.13 - 00:49:04.16] We all go through hardships.
[00:49:04.16 - 00:49:07.19] We all have to overcome roadblocks and adversity.
[00:49:07.19 - 00:49:09.01] I mean, that's what life is, right?
[00:49:09.01 - 00:49:11.01] We're here to be tested.
[00:49:11.01 - 00:49:15.01] But if you can find gratitude for the hard things that happened in life, then you can
[00:49:15.01 - 00:49:16.22] turn anything into a gift.
[00:49:17.07 - 00:49:18.05] Yeah.
[00:49:18.11 - 00:49:19.07] Indeed.
[00:49:19.07 - 00:49:26.05] Kerry, thank you for being here with us, for inspiring us to instill an ownership mindset.
[00:49:26.16 - 00:49:32.08] I think you talked about both the financial aspect of it, the ESOP, but also
[00:49:32.08 - 00:49:37.01] the emotional aspect of it, which is trust people and let them be their best selves
[00:49:37.01 - 00:49:38.07] at work.
[00:49:40.04 - 00:49:45.19] And I hope that inspires more leaders to think about their people, their staff,
[00:49:45.19 - 00:49:52.08] their employees as owners in the business and help those people help the business
[00:49:52.08 - 00:49:56.08] rather than see them as resources, which is the traditional view.
[00:49:57.01 - 00:50:03.05] And so thank you for being with us and thank you to all those who listened to us.
[00:50:03.05 - 00:50:04.19] If you like the show.
[00:50:04.19 - 00:50:08.10] You can support us by telling your friends about the show or you can leave a comment
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[00:50:10.10 - 00:50:15.16] I know there is a little field in Spotify that allows you to do that within the app.
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[00:50:37.22 - 00:50:43.01] workplaces, healthier workplaces for you and for those around you.