Season 1: The Sin of Certainty

This season, We'll be exploring the human need for certainty, especially in uncertain times, and how this need can lead to controlling behaviors and reactions.

We discuss the implications of this mindset on faith, relationships, and mental health, offering insights and tools for embracing uncertainty with grace and faith.

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https://chillhop.ffm.to/creatorcred

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Creators & Guests

Host

Christian Barnes

Christian Barnes is a spiritual explorer on a journey of excavating and rebuilding the tenets of her faith one belief at a time. She is a proud mom and wife who believes in the power of connection and creativity. She cherishes the moments spent with friends and family, sharing food, laughter, and love. When she doesn’t have her nose in a book, you can find her painting her nails or watching football.

Host

Christopher Barnes

Chris Barnes is a pastor, theologian, and mystic leading The Tree Community, a progressive Christian space in Houston, TX. He is dedicated to creating inclusive environments that encourage people to live fully, learn openly, and love deeply. With over two decades of ministry and church experience, Chris helps individuals deconstruct toxic beliefs, relearn truths about God, and grow into their full potential. Through The UProot Project Podcast, he explores faith, mental health, and spirituality in a pluralistic world. His approach emphasizes grace, presence, and intentionality, guiding others toward authentic transformation and a deeper connection with the divine.

Host

Whitney Weathersby

Whitney is a very Black, queer, neurodivergent, recovering church kid and intuitive therapist who is all about deep conversations and disruptive cackles. She is the friend who will pull your card while making you laugh because while healing is hard work, it never gave stuffy. Known for what her friends have dubbed 'Whitney-isms,' you can count on her to unwittingly drop a gem that will shake things up – and to immediately forget what she said. A student of Black feminism, womanism, and decolonial thought, her perspectives are grounded in the liberation of all people—collectively and individually. Whitney’s work centers the experiences of marginalized folks, amplifying often silenced voices, and holding space for the messy, nonlinear path to self-actualization. Whether in therapy sessions, on the podcast, or in everyday conversations, she brings a mix of radical honesty, irreverent humor, and a deep sense of care, leaving people feeling both seen and challenged to grow.

What is The UProot Project Podcast?

Welcome to the UProot Project Podcast, where we delve into and dismantle toxic beliefs about God, ourselves, and each other. Together, we replant these insights in the fertile soil of wisdom and love, fostering growth and transformation for our souls. Join us on this enlightening journey.

Music.

Welcome to the uproot project,
podcast, where we dig deep to

uncover and dismantle toxic
beliefs about God, ourselves and

each other. Our goal is to
replant new insights in the

fertile soil of wisdom and love,
fostering personal growth and

transformation. Join us as we
explore new ways of thinking and

living in a world of complexity
and diversity.

Hello and welcome to the first
episode of the uproot project.

To him, I am Christian. She her,
I am Chris, he him, and I'm

Whitney. Also, she her, um, so
we're excited to have you all

join us, and as a norm setting
for this podcast, we want to

start always with a mindfulness
moment, just to welcome

everybody in the space. And to
be fully honest, we also need it

to ground ourselves in this
space. So if everyone could just

take a second, if you are
driving, do this with your eyes

open. Please be safe. If you are
not and you are in some place

that is safe, close your eyes
with me for just a few seconds,

and I want you to inhale. We're
going to do a quick box breath,

and then we'll get started. So
inhale to the count of 41234,

we'll hold for 4321,
release. 12341,

more time, inhale. 1234,
hold for 1234, release. 1234,

so quick tool, I hope you all
are in this space. More

importantly, I hope you all are
in your bodies and feeling into

your body. Our body is
incredibly intelligent and lets

us know a lot of things. So if
you're there and you feel

yourself in that breath you are
holding or tensing, just try to

release whatever might be
tensing your body and come chill

on the couch with us. All right,
we're gonna get started. You.

All right, so today's thing,
well, the thing for this season,

rather, is going to be talking
about the sin of certainty.

If you are listening to this
podcast, you may have heard of

an author by the name of Peter
ends, and he has a very

enlightening book about the
subject, especially about when

we talk about
when things are being uprooted

from our lives, how we can hang
on the things that appear to be

normal, but they're slipping
through our fingers, and we need

to find a new way to reorient
ourselves, to go on to this

journey. And sometimes our
obsession with certainty can

cause us to do very harmful
things,

to both to ourselves and to the
people we love and the people we

don't love.

So So Here's an excerpt
that I have from his book.

And so we'll start there, and
we'll just launch out from there

our beliefs about God, which is
to say, our thoughts about God

are precious to us because they
give us a sense of who we are

and our place in this chaotic
world, and we often can't

imagine any other way of being
us. And so when our beliefs are

threatened, the instinct,
understandably, is to guard them

fiercely, to resist any move as
long as possible, to make the

stress go away and to stay in
the comfort of our familiar

spiritual homes. But in
resisting, we may actually be

missing an invitation to take a
sacred journey where we let go

of needing to be right and trust
God, regardless of what we feel

we know or don't know.

Let's just sit in that for a
moment, yeah, and

speak to any thoughts that may
arise from that?

Yeah, I think the first thing
that comes up for me and y'all

know this. So for context, we
are all close folks in this

room,
or am I going to get into our

relationship to one another?

Yeah, so me and the other Chris
are married.

Yes, so Christian and
Christopher, the Christians are

married, and I Whitney, am
Christian's best friend of like

forever, like before, we have
memories. And so that makes her

my sister, period. The end,
fight your mama, and that makes

Christopher my brother. So also
fight your daddy. I don't care,

family, yeah, you can fight
everybody. We are family, and we

know each other really well, and
so we will try our best not to

have inside thingies, but we can
explain them, if possible, that

part, right? We will so in
thinking about uncertainty,

there is so I'm in a very
specific it feels like season of

my life where earlier this year,
at the top of the year in the

spring, well, I guess not the
top on top of the winter. Yes,

thank
you. I had this moment. And this

actually, I think, was my second
moment with this. So I was

working
in a leadership position at a

place, and it was one of those
moments where I it was time to

go, and I knew it was time to
go. And so in our like,

transition as an organization, I
was like, Oh, this is actually a

perfect time to leave. And the
plan was for me to like, off

board sometime closer to now, or
like, a month from now. And

oddly enough, last year, around
this time, I actually was like,

I'm out. Yeah, I'm ready to go.

I hate this place. And instead
of leaving, because I was so

uncertain, right? I was like,
babes, yes, keep the pop in.

It's important,
yeah. And so I was just like,

not only that, but like, can you
swing it, and what's going to

happen to you, and all these
things. And so I was like, oh,

things have changed. Things are
changing because there was a

little bit a change in our top
leadership, right? And so I was

like, Oh, let me give it a try.

And, babe, we didn't even make
it six months before. I was

like, actually, right,
right? And so I thought it was

going to be good. It did not go
so well. And so what ended up

happening is I was in a moment
where a very specific series of

events happened to the point
that it was a blatant

disregard of my boundaries. It
was also a blatant like I could

not avoid it. So I'm one of
those people, one of the things

I don't like, and I'm, y'all, I
don't like to lie like, that's

just not my favorite thing at
all. And I can't stand to be

lied on so I try not to lie on
people. Um, I don't lie on

people. Um, but, but, yeah. So
that, like, dishonesty is a

thing for me. And there was a
situation where dishonesty was

abound, and so like, all of my
values were challenged, because

I was like, I can't trust you
enough to believe what you say,

baby. How we gonna do work,
especially at a leadership

level,
and everything in my life,

right? Like, God was supportive.

Family was supportive. Friends
were like, Girl, it's time,

right? But this feeling of, I
don't know what's going to

happen. Had me shaken in my
boots. I was shaking in my

boots, but I but I had to jump.

It was one of those, like I felt
the call on my spirit to say,

girl, I know you are unsure. We
are sure do it. So I did it, and

I've been fun employed, because
that's what I've been calling it

ever since. But I've been good
in ways that I didn't think I

was good. And what actually
opened for me is I've been on a

crazy personal and spiritual
journey. This summer. I was

like, would this journey have
happened if I was still working

there, and if it was trying to
happen, would I be able to

process it and experience it,
for it right the way that it's

because the answer is no, like,
I didn't have the space for

this, because it's been a lot of
shadow work, inner child work,

like, you know, primary wound
work. And it's been hard, it's

been hard, but it's been
beautiful, and so and I've been

saying to people, I'm like,
yeah, if you knew me in 2023 you

don't know me now. And if you
knew me in like, March, and you

haven't updated your software,
then you don't know this version

of me that's sitting in front of
you because it's been firmware

update you did not. Okay,
firmware I'm sorry. Y'all know

you. Chris is our tech person.

So this is
everything. He is the everyday

person. Minister. He's literally
the everything person. We'll

have to do a bonus episode so I
can tell you all the things that

my husband does, because he
won't tell y'all.

Let me tell y'all. It's so
expansive. I literally misheard

Christian on the phone last
night, and thought she said this

man played the flute, because he
doesn't play the flute, but

that's not outside of the realm
of possibility.

He does everything, but, but
yeah, and so basically, like I

needed, I needed to walk in the
season of uncertainty, yeah,

because what is here for me?

What has.

Been here for me has been life
transforming, um, and just in

how I see myself, how I love
myself, how I show up in love,

in relationship with other
people, how I even see other

people, it has been and like, if
you know me, I was already kind

of, it was looking good on
paper,

but it's man, we done. We done
dug in the deep down and, I

mean, there's always more
digging to do, so who knows

what's coming next,
but, like, it's been wild, and I

wouldn't have experienced it
this way if I hadn't trusted but

that trust, y'all trust, is it?

Yeah, it builds, and it's a slow
process, and it's like, it's

like, God pretty much knows how
each one of us needs to go along

that journey to virtual trust.

And so he's just, you know, I'm
trying to use gender neutral

pronouns when it comes to God,
it hasn't always come off, but

they are. They're patient,
they're understanding, and they

go with you at the pace of what
they know you're possible, yeah.

And it's like, yeah, we could go
further faster, but you choosing

this track, all right? Well, I
know how to navigate this with

you, yeah.

And so, yeah, like, it's even
for me, you know, I had this

thought, these ideas, back in
2017 before the pandemic, of how

I wanted to do faith community,
what I wanted to do church.

But I think, similar to you, I
think for for a lot of I was

like, oh, I need to get these
things done. I need to

go down this path. I need to get
legitimacy.

You know, I need to be connected
to another church. I don't want

to do nothing. I didn't want to
go to non denominational route

and be unsupported and be
looking like we're just a

Christian doing my whole thing.

And it's like all of those
barriers of, again, holding on

to certainty, the established
way of doing things,

you know, that began back then
to strip away and and then

when I actually went down the
path of

doing the work. And I was like,
Okay, God, all right, I don't

know a lot, but okay, if you
think I'm supposed to do it,

then okay, go down and to find
out going down the path that I

still had shit I needed to
unload, yeah, and in terms of

certainty, and it was not until,
like, last week, that I had

finally, like, closed a door
that was open because of my need

for certainty, yeah, and my need
for okay, you know, you've built

this church and this institution
for a reason. Now you actually I

should try to be a part of it,
and that door closed. Until now

we're on this path, and this
podcast is a part of this path

of going down to see what
happens. Yeah, and pursuing

truth and like what Peter Anne
says in being invited onto the

sacred journey. And
I feel at peace. I feel

resolved. I mean, there's a lot
of shit I don't know. There's

gonna be sometimes I'm a cuss,
yeah, that's just where I am.

And there's a lot of stuff I
don't know, and it's not going

to, you know, go the way I think
it's going to go, you know,

especially when you invite more
people into the joint,

you know. But I always keep in
mind that, you know, God, you're

talking to other people. You're
speaking to them as well, and

you love them too. And so it's
going to be a it's

going to be right, it's going to
be a journey, and I'm looking

forward to what comes of it, and
not try to have my thumb on the

pulse and try to control it
because of it doesn't look like

what I think it should, or what
I'm used to it looking like in

the past. Yeah, I think while
you were speaking, the thing

that resonates in both of our
stories is that sense of peace.

And for me, the word I use here
is alignment, right? So, like,

even though I have no clue
what's coming, y'all, y'all, and

there's been other moments of
testing in this, I didn't tell

y'all. They about to find out
live on the air, I received a

job offer from a place I turned
it down, did you? I

wrestled with it because I went
back and forth. It was people

that had recruited me, and the
conversation was good things I

can do. And I woke up the day I
was supposed to give them the

answer, and I felt so
unenthused, and I was like, What

is going on? And so I was just
like, I heard it very clear in

my spirit. You?

Can slow down. They said, take
the time you need. This offer

doesn't expire until two weeks
from now, slow down. And so I

did. And I was like, Okay, this
is actually going to be very

similar to walking into walk
what I walked out of, yeah, and

I decided not to, right? And so
you want to talk about the the

shaking response that happened
after. I was like, this is not i

i actually did a big, bold
pitch, and I was like, I think

you could actually benefit me in
other ways. And they were like,

Yeah, we ain't got the budget
for that, but we love you, so

we'll keep you in mind for other
things. Me. Okay, great.

But it, it was alignment. It was
the I don't have peace with

this, yes, right? Or I don't
have peace with how this is

going, like there is something
unsettled

that doesn't feel like it's
clicking. And even though the no

is scary, the no clicks, right?

Or the release clicks
it, it went into alignment, and

it was like, oh, so we going
deep up off in this trust thing.

Okay, right? And so, and that
reminded me of your story,

Chris, and just thinking about,
like this whole process and like

the things you have been, the
things that we

build like into our identity,
around certainty, or like our

process around it, right? Like
these are the things that need

to be in place, and this will
make meaning for me. Yeah,

right, right. And what does it
look like to shed those things

and then your left ass out
right? It's very much giving

naked mole rat,
you know, but you're still here,

and now you you have the space
because you've released all the

shit you were carrying. Yeah,
you now have the space for the

things that are for you to,
like, attach. You can hold it,

yeah, if I'm, if I'm back lady
and in the hand, how am I hold

it? Right? You can't, can't
receive anything. If your hands

already fooling you, clutching
onto it for dear life, right?

That one of the things, and I
have not read this book, so for

for reference, if you didn't
listen to any of our prequels,

where you got to know us
individually, I'm the regular.

Both of these people are very
intelligent. I mean, we're all

intelligent. Stop that these
people have a passion for their

learning to the point where they
actually wanted more education.

I am not that person. I
understand most of what they say

unless they start using words
with like 18 syllables. That's

mostly my husband, maybe
occasionally, but that's mostly

Chris. So if you hear something,
they sounds like Greek is

probably literally Greek. That's
true.

That's an aside. They certainly
know the joke. So being Whitney

bust out when he says some kind
of weird word we want, like 18

vows in it. We will ask him to
define it for you and us. We

won't know, because what are you
saying? But yeah, no. Like, you

know, the way that I grew up in
my faith practice, and honestly,

we all, we all grew up in
similar faith practices. Whitney

and I grew up in church
together, so we had, like, it

still didn't match, because
we're individuals, but we don't

get the same under the same
teachings. Yeah, we had

different takeaways from those
teachings. We'll just leave it

at that, and y'all will find out
what those mean later. But we

take away we had,
we came to different conclusions

a lot of the time. Fair, fair. I
was, I have always been and

working on the fact that I am
very much alike. That's what you

said. Okay, and Whitney's like,
wait what? Make it. Man, yes,

Whitney, want you to make it. I
need more information. So it

took me a while for to get to
the point where I needed what I

was like, asking more of those
questions. And so for me, like,

the journey of faith that I've
been on has been a very like

roller coaster kind of
situation, and so I clung to a

lot of those ideas, much like he
mentioned in that book that he

that he read from earlier. I
clung to a lot of those ideas

because, like, anything that
didn't fit the narrative that I

had been taught felt like an
attack,

you know, whatever I believed,
and I didn't think about it at

the time, but it was like, Oh,
why are you so angry? Why are

you so aggressive with people
who disagree with you? And I

think that that energy, right
it, it kept me in a position

where I was not growing, and I
didn't realize that the thing

that was keeping me from growing
was me, yeah, right. Like, and I

think this happens to a lot of
people who are like, in

evangelical spaces, is the idea
that, like, Oh, I'm not growing

at this church, I'm not growing
with this pastor, I'm not

growing in this class, right?

And it's like, yeah, but they
are not the ones impeding

growth. You are, yeah, it's hard
to see that come through.

And so, like, for both of y'all,
like, it's like, I had to decide

to release the job. I had to
decide to release the pre

planned program. I had to
myself, I had to decide to

release a lot of the theology
that I clung to, like it was a

life raft, realized like, and at
that point, then you can

actually start to grow. You get
to.

Move forward, you get to
experience what was there all

along, kind of waiting for you.

But that fear, that desire to
control everything. Oh Lord, I'm

going back to therapy for that
one y'all, but that desire to

control everything, including
you.

But like you can barely control
you, you show can't control

nobody else. Oh, man, that's
really the one that all of that

stuff. It really like it, I
think, like when, when Chris

first pitched this episode, and
he was like, the sin of certain.

He was like, Oh, me, and this
word sin, we got beef. However,

like, if you think about sin as
like a thing that is separating

the desire to have certainty and
to be in control of everything.

It separates you from a ton. And
one of those things is the

experience of what happens when
you just let stuff happen, like

when you let it go, when you tap
into like, that spirit, like

when you're looking for peace.

Instead of, it's like, do I feel
peace about it? Instead of, does

this look like the right thing
that everybody else does is this

following the path that
everybody else followed. But do

I feel peace about this for me
right now? And if the answer is

no, then you don't do it, then
the answer is no, and it's a

hard No, hard No, final No,
like, yeah, and don't fight it,

because, you know, just to try
to make yourself fit in a box,

you are not a box. You are a
very oddly shaped thing,

physically and spiritually,
right? Don't try to put yourself

in the back. Yeah. So funny to
mention it because I had a dream

this, and I very rarely remember
my dreams, but I had a dream on

Sunday or Saturday night, on
Sunday, and I woke up that

Sunday morning. Not gonna go
into the details dream, because

it's weird and wonky, but
normally are. But how I came out

supposed to be the fucking
music.

But I went through it, and one
thing that it seemed to come

through for me, when I started
processing the dream is that

divorce came and said, All power
is my power.

And for me,
when he said that all power is

my power, and I was just like,
it's like, so you really don't

need to walk in fear when
somebody is exhibiting power

against you, because that's
yours too, period. And if I

align my and if I align myself
with you, whatever's coming my

way, Psalm 91 talks about that
10,000 followed your side and

1000 side, but it won't come
near you.

And it is this idea that that
certainty, when you are things

have been stripped away from
you. It puts you out of

alignment, because you're not
moving where God is moving. And

so when there's an when there's
powers coming against you,

you become a victim of that,
because you're not moving with

the principle of life, yeah?

Stepping into that is that
change as a constant. That's

right. Oh, that's good. Chris,
so Tokyo was smart, yeah, my

face was over here, fighting the
whole time,

screech, maybe one day, you
don't care what. So y'all can

see some of the faces she'd be
making, but there, I'm

sorry. No, and that's really it,
like, No. Say more if you go,

No, I'm gonna breathe. Oh, yeah,
that was so you can go, I need

to breathe. I like, can we just
call into the room? That control

is an illusion.

It is, but it is such an
enticing one. Oh, absolutely.

Oh, my god. It's so like,
the fact that it's not real

doesn't make you not want it.

That's real, right? You know, it
definitely intoxicating. It's

very enticing. It's how people
build narratives that build

nations. That's it.

It's how people that build
narratives, that build entire

lives and worlds on one idea,
some people go out for the

sunset and die and they sleep
with it, and then other people

that shit comes, coming calming
down midlife, and that's why

that's when you have midlife
crisis. That's where I'm at.

Because the story of crisis, oh,
my God, it's crazy that we're in

midlife. We're like in our 30s,
late 30s, we're all in our

late 30s. I'm the oldest by
what, one year a year,

11 months of change. No, I am
older than you Christian by

like, a year and two weeks.

I am Wow. You. It's crazy how
you just told these people my

business.

Y'all can leave it in, I guess.

But that was Tia. I said, my
year. So, oh, nobody, right. I.

87 period you are, no, I think,
like it is an enticing thing.

But one of the things, and we've
talked about this before, one of

the things that I think people
find so enticing is that the

illusion that you can control,
like external things to

yourself, like the only thing
you actually have control over

is you, right, the the
narratives you create, the

responses that you have to
situation, to stimuli, but like

you cannot control what other
person says, Does, thinks, any

of that, how they show up, where
they show up, if they show up,

if the stars will align and give
you your highest wish. You

cannot control, that what you
can control is you. And so

oftentimes, so I'm assuming
we're gonna say this in the

intro, but I'm a therapist, so
oftentimes I have clients that I

will and I have self I just
won't be clear that, like we're

coming in, we're having these
conversations, and it's like,

oh, but I'm responding like this
because this person, because

this person, no, no, you're
responding like this because

you're trying to control them,
because if they don't have that

behavior, then now you don't
have that response. But if your

regulation of any kind is
contingent upon how someone else

behaves, you are codependent.

Love will tell you. That's how
road rage starts. Road rage,

yeah, this is how it this is
raising a child that is raising

a child that's co regulation. So
we have a toddler, Chris and I,

and oh, my God. There are so
many times where they're doing

something and, you know, I have
a response, and they'll ask me,

why did you do that? And in my
response, I will say, because

you did such and such. And my
brain goes, No, you chose to act

like that. Yeah, you that was,
that was a response. You chose

your your response is not their
fault. And I try to catch myself

before I say that, because I
don't want that in their head.

That's right. This is, this is
my I made mommy mad. No, mommy

got mad. Mommy was already
frustrated. Mommy was on 10, and

that's why Mommy's going back to
therapy. Mommy was on 10.

Period, you were being a
toddler, right? That's it? No,

that's real. And I think owning
that, right? It's important,

like, think about it. Y'all we
grew up in 80s, right? When we

were born in 80s, kids of the
90s, yeah? But it's like, Yo,

y'all know the parent generation
we had. Our parents are boomers,

seen and not heard my parents,
my parent was a boomer, yeah?

Well, no, I could be seen and
heard, however, but like, it was

very cause and effect in the
house, right? Always, right.

It's just like, and I now,
people say I grew there are some

ways in which I had a liberal
childhood, because I got to ask

questions and make my preference
known, and got to negotiate

questions. Um, I don't, but I it
never occurred to me to

negotiate. But that's just the
personality thing. Keep going.

That's fair. No, it's also a
personality thing that I'm gonna

negotiate. But like, even still,
it is, like, a if you wouldn't

act this way, you wouldn't get
you, you wouldn't get your ass

beat. Just act right, right,
like you wouldn't get this go to

school, to my I mean, I was a
great kid. I was a great

student, but so it wasn't school
issues. Like, you stopped

talking back. We wouldn't have
to do this. It was very much

just projected. And like, if we
could all Millennials take a

moment, and probably some of
y'all exes, uh, Gen X's to,

like, take this moment and say,
like, Yo,

a little moment for healing.

They response was never your
fault. Their response was the

same way I am saying to you now
that

anyone else your response is not
their fault. Those people's

responses were not your fault.

And so, like, we have this onus
to, like, right, own our own

experience.

Right? And I was going to even
think about Sonya Massey in that

situation, where can we just
take a breath? Let's let's see.

Let's say her name. Silence for
Sonya Massey.

I'm so weary. Geez, so weary.

But the idea that you could be
threatened by a pot of boiling

water to the extreme when you
have a gun, to the extent that

you feel like you need to shoot
to kill somebody, at the very

least, Al Green survived ball
and stuff, you read my mind,

which so like, like, you are
okay, yeah, if ball and water

gets on it did not warrant you
feel like you need to shoot

somebody to death, to death, to
death. And

this is what I'm talking about,
in terms of regulating your your

emotions and.

And and don't get me wrong, I
appreciate what this police

people have to do, or any first
responder, multiple responder,

but if fear rules your
disposition in this job, you

don't need to be in that
position. Word that's it.

Because, part of the reason why
you have the gun and why you

have the badge or why you have
to fire holes or whatever. It's

because you have been trained.

We expect you to have been
trained to regulate and de

escalate situations when people
are themselves, are out of

control. You need to be the
adult in a row. Yeah, and so.

But I mean, I'm thinking about
that even with my toddler like

that to that point, yeah, we
don't get taught that. Like,

that's a, that's a, I'm using my
air quotes. That's a new thing.

It's like, oh, gentle parenting.

And, you know, responsive
parenting and all this. There's

other there's other bird words
for it. I think the simplest way

to say it is, I try to treat my
toddler like I treat other human

beings hard, stop. Yeah, and for
some reason, I don't know why it

happened, but we try to, we're
trying to adjust our, our our

awareness of how we interact
with our toddler.

They are a person, period. I
would not treat any other person

like that, I try to, like,
ascertain, I'm not saying that

there are times that I make them
do things they don't want to do.

Of course they do. You don't
want to brush your teeth. That's

too bad. That's the thing we
need to do. But instead of me

like, shoving a toothbrush in
their mouth while they gag,

because that's, that's that's
not a good that's violent. That

sounds like a thing that's going
to put you in therapy Yeah, it's

throwing up in my seat. Or have
you with dental issues because

you don't want to brush your own
teeth because now you got tooth

trauma, trauma, right, creating
all sorts of like mental garbage

in the back of your head, just
trying to keep your teeth clean.

But why? Right? It is on me, if
I dealt with any other person

who I was trying to get to do
something, either I decide I

don't care, which sometimes we
do not lie. Sometimes, when

Tyler is like, I'm not feeling
it today. I'm like, You know

what? I'm like, You know what?

That's fine. You don't have to
feel it today. You don't want to

take a shower. I'm not in the
mood to fight you. To take a

shower. Go get in bed. Yeah, and
we do that with adults. It's

like, Oh, you want to be an
idiot. I'm gonna let you do that

over there. You got it.

Sometimes I need you to do a
thing now. I need to regulate

and go,
use my big brain. Use the front

part of my brain, the big part,
not the survival part. Okay.

What can I do that will make you
think less about the thing. How

can I distract you? How can I
encourage you? How can I make

this fun? How can I make this a
game? Right? There's all these

ways that we have to, that we
have access to, that can turn

something that could end up
being traumatic into something

that's best case benign, worst
case benign and best case like

fun, yeah, um, but that's,
that's a skill set, right?

That's a skill set that we have
to build, and I don't think a

lot of us built it. A lot of us
have this idea that certain

people are less important and
less valuable than other people,

yeah, whether that's because of
the color of their skin, who

they choose to love, or the fact
that they're three, right?

So it's like, all this stuff is
connected, and I don't think we

always think of it that way.

It's like, oh, they have a
problem. It's like, No, our

society has a problem. Period,
valuing certain groups of

people. It's just a matter of
which group of people is it?

Yeah, and what kind of effort
are you going to put into making

like, into shifting that right?

And those like you saying, and I
think it's based on a narrative

that we have in our society, in
civilization, that you know,

that they can only be one at the
top,

and they're gonna be one of the
top. Individualism is gonna kick

our ass. Y'all,
I'm special process

everyone you know, and so I'm
significant, therefore you must

not be, because only one of us
can be significant

this idea that's built on and
yeah, and I'm just, I'm just

trying to decide where I am on
the political spectrum. But yet,

capitalism,
in itself, is, is just,

I can see all of its flaws,
especially when it comes to how

we value and structure our
society, evaluate ourselves as

individuals in light of what
we're trying to build in terms

of the society. Because, again,
narratives build nations, yeah,

and depending on the kind of
nation you want to build,

depends on the narrative you
want to start and put in motion.

And once you set that thing in
motion, it's hard to undo it.

It's hard, yeah, you talking
about 50 years, 100 years, 200

years down the line, this
nation's what, 230 something

years old. Don't.

Make, okay?

76 to 250, some odd years old.

We trust you. Chris, yeah, 77
cents. But I don't do the math,

you know, right? But we all do
it. We could do the math. Do any

of y'all care, right? 48
years, 48 years old. Chris, I

like
your I like your round math. It

was very effective, yes, yeah,
but it's, it's this idea that

this narrative is baked into our
society, that there must be an

underclass for this society to
thrive, yeah. And so we begin to

structure power and values in
service to that narrative,

because we cannot envision it
any other way, yeah. And whereas

there's other societies that are
egalitarian, that are, you know,

that had that their moment of
collective repentance, yeah? And

also keep that remembrance,
think of Germany.

Yeah. You think of Germany, how
they went off the deep end in

1940s and 50s, yeah, of course,
with the obvious

moment in history. And they just
did it about face, and goes,

Okay, what does it take for us
as a people, never to be in this

spot again?

And and they literally did that.

Now I'm not saying that Germany
is perfect or this is heaven on

earth. I'm pretty sure they got
their own structural problems,

issues based on other narratives
they got going on absolutely but

on this issue, they have
repented and restructured and

thought differently about what
it takes to, yeah, to not do

that.

We have yet to do that over here
as a nation, with the offended

parties, as it were, because,
because, be honest, we're still

doing it absolutely, and we're
also a mentality which is

infuriating, yeah, that those
are who, who are in control are

the offended parties
that the people who have their

thumb on everybody else's neck
or foot on everybody else's

neck, that's how they that's
how, um, they're the ones. It's

like, How dare you, you. They.

Nobody wants to work
for nothing. No, not like this.

Nobody wants to work for
nothing. This is also not

working.

It only works for you
if this is and this is why, this

is what happens when you stop
teaching actual history and

history class. But that's a
that's a conversation by the end

of the day, the the idea, like
you said, that we

and we're speaking from an
American context, because that's

where we live. We are aware that
there are other contexts that

are similar to this and very
dissimilar. Just to put that out

there, however, in the American
context, and we live in the

south,
do with that what you will

mostly praise and vibes, and I
don't know, generations, life

raft, please. I hope we don't
need no rafts and a life straw.

I've taken up camping, and I
need supplies. Oh, I've heard of

them. Yeah, I used to have one.

I got some stuff. Anyway, your
things? Okay, I'm sorry.

Anyway, like, there's a there's
a very there's this idea that

parties that are the aggressors
are the aggrieved, and it's that

they are the aggrieved. Well,
yes, unchallenged, they're fine.

But once it's once the status
quo is challenged, and we're

trying to shake shit up so that
it works for everybody, you

know, lower more than just them.

Yeah.

Yeah, you know, written this out
if you didn't mean it, all men

are created equal. No, they did
what. They didn't mean that.

They didn't mean it. Well, no,
pause, they did mean it by their

definition. Because, who is men,
right? They literally. They were

specific about men, not all
people men. There was men, and

men at the time was defined by
white men, yeah, and they met

men, not like and I think
oftentimes it can still be

defined as white men. Frequently
we had a discussion Chris. Chris

is the kind of person who
watches tiktoks And then wants

to show them to me, even though
they're about topics that I

don't enjoy. But he usually
tries to find the ones that he

thinks I think is funny. Um,
mainly politics. So if I talk

about politics, it's because
Chris showed me something

that's fair. So he was watching
something on the new channel

that I'm not going to give any
press to, but you probably know

which one it is. And we're
watching a clip, and this,

this guy is talking to, you
know, one of one of the news

anchors, and he calls one of the
presidential candidates a name,

and was lamenting about her
giggling and how it was

unpresidential.

And.

I called her a ding dong. Let's
not forget that. Y'all joy. And

that's wild to me.

So this is, this is what. And
then in, in the clip goes on to

say that, um, what's her name,
she was in, she was like, the

prime minister of Britain, um,
Thatcher, who's like, Margaret

Thatcher didn't giggle, and I
was like,

but he did also British. So
there's so many issues, but this

is what
I said. After the British they

freed ourselves from, well, you
know what? Apparently, we stole

their national anthem. We just
decided to redo the words and

make some reason, apparently we
do that. That's what we do. But

however, the thing that I really
noticed was they were like, Oh,

would you be saying this if she
wasn't a woman? And his response

was, I don't care if she that
she's a woman. I don't care that

she's black. I just think she's
incompetent. And I said to

Chris, you know what he might
actually be telling the truth,

because he could like he he
referenced Margaret Thatcher.

And so basically what he was
saying is, as long as you think

what I think, and behave how I
behave, I eat like a man, and

particularly, preferably like a
white man, then I don't care

what you actually look like. And
according to him, men don't

giggle. And I was just like,
they sound so sad. Okay,

the way that you need first of
all, because she knew y'all

niggas was out there. That part
made her life hell. I was about

to say, she's probably
miserable, stressed. That was,

honestly my first thought. Is
Margaret was probably miserable.

Yeah, if I had to deal with
every day, yes, only men every

day, I too, would not giggle,
because I'd be like, this is

something. There's nothing funny
about this. Ain't nothing funny.

No shade to me. We're not man
hating. Here we do. I happen to

love this one, yeah,
and a few others,

man hating. But like, Y'all have
watched the crown, no, y'all

seen them. Room full of them.

There is a there is, I mean, I
hate on the patriarchy all day.

And that's what that is well,
because patriarchy doesn't

benefit anybody like it,
ultimately, in a box. Ultimately

a box of certainty, sorry, a box
of certainty that don't fit.

Doesn't fit. It don't fit. And
you know what? Everybody needs

to get a little bit more
sensitive about the fact that

stuff don't fit, like my toddler
when their shoes don't fit. You

know they're not wearing them.

But what will we do, we will
shove ourselves in a box, be

uncomfortable as hell, end up
with hammer toes trying to keep

your feet in the damn you are
literally cramped up. You have

permanently damaged stuff, and
now you need surgery, and this

analogy is going off the rails.

But Come with me. No, I like to
go.

You will contort yourself, yes,
until you barely recognize

yourself at the first
opportunity to stretch at all.

You're like, Oh, it's scary. And
then you're like, oh, but it

feels good. That's it. And that
right there. That is why

certainty it, it is just like
the patriarchy. It does come on.

Patriarchy, him too,
the pancreas, the pancreatic

pancrear,
pancreatic cancer. Once you get

that, you probably gone, just
like Sheila, makes you rest in

peace. So patriarchy is just
like it. Podcast

is done real quick. We're
digging into the roots. Y'all,

it's dark down there.

You get your hands dirty. It's
grimy, yeah, but once you get to

stretch out them roots a little
bit, you get a little more

space. You got to get repotted,
and you can stretch out. That's

really it. Then you can move up,
right? Because you listen, you

won't grow unless you're
grounded. All right, come on.

All right, y'all are gonna get
all of the brainstorming we did.

Y'all are gonna get all the
things because we had some good

thoughts, and they go keep
popping up. It's actually an

ariletic song I was referencing.

Oh, see,
I stopped listening to new music

after like, 2009 so, yeah, now
it's a good song. You should

listen to
it. I will. It's a good thing. I

have to send it. I'd sing it,
but I can't sing like Ari so and

we don't thing to, like, get,
get, not demonetized. What's the

word copyrighted? Do you get
podcasts and change the melody?

You just gotta sing it poorly.

Like,
grow, once you are Graco, turn

it into a show too. I hope that
didn't deem I hope it didn't

bad. Bat, no, good, okay, yeah,
you got the vision.

No.

Oh, I try to remember, wow, not
you call the vision in part, but

that okay, but That'll preach,
because that, I think that is

what happens, right? Like
certainty is having, sometimes

none of the vision, but
sometimes it's having the vision

in part, right? Like we may
know, we may feel good about

this is where I want to end.

Yeah, right. Maybe you don't
know the journey. You don't

know. And what I've learned is
people don't like the journey.

People, sometimes it's me. I'm
people, but like we like to

arrive. Yes, we like to show up.

The whole resolution. If you get
to the end of the book and that

shit don't make sense, it's
because you didn't read all 27

chapters in the middle, right?

In order to truly get there and
have what you need for there to

make sense, you gotta go on. You
gotta go on the journey. And I

think that's what's what has
kept me and y'all, it's like 17

transitions happening in my
life. Let's not, let's not

minimize but like, the thing
that keeps me is that like I am

always where I need to be. So
whatever moment I'm in, no

matter how uncomfortable it is,
I am always where I need to be.

And there's something here for
me. So in this room right now,

there's something here for me if
something amazing happens, okay,

great, that's something here for
me. If something less than

desirable happens, then that
there's something there for me

that I'm going to need when I
get to the place I'm going

right. Like, yeah, yeah. And I
think in this particular season

of my life where I need it to
shift, like I needed to be

uprooted, well,
like there are so many things I

have gathered in this part of
the journey that I'm like, yo, I

don't know where. I don't know
exactly where the next, like

stop is on this thing, but what
I know is, baby, I think I'm

equipped. You picking up stuff.

I think I'm equipped. And I
hope, Jesus, I hope I'm

equipped. But what I know is, I
got more equipment than I had

right, right at the start, yeah,
and like, internal equipment

that I had at the start. And so,
like, we can't, you cannot

bypass. There is no shortcut,
right? Like, what did Jennifer

Lewis used to say, there's no
shortcut to success. You got to

take that. There's no elevator
to success. You have to take the

stairs. Life is the stairs,
right? The problem is we want

the elevator because we know the
elevator is going up, and we

know we can press the button and
it'll go and it'll go to that

floor.

Sometimes life will present us
with opportunities, just to show

that principle, yeah, that life
does not come with it. They will

actually give somebody an
elevator. Yeah, to success, and

we see how they crumble, yeah,
because they they took the show,

and we'll see it. And like in
their life becomes a story about

this eternal principle of going
through the process. That's

right. And I don't want to be
one of them, people that that

have to be a story to somebody
else about this is what happens

when you don't go to the
process. Bypass, yeah, it's

like, bypass, Okay, y'all know
Okay, y'all don't know this. I

they've been doing the
analogies. I've been letting

them have it. I'm the analogy
queen in this life.

I think I want to say it's in my
Instagram description, Queen of

analogies, or something like
that. Author of analogy, because

I love alliteration,
yeah, but it's literally like

building a house, right? Like,
if you see yourself, is this the

analogy? No, it's similar to the
one I used at photosynthesis,

but it's, it's like, what
happens if you bypass

fundamental steps, right?

Digging a big ass hole is not
fun, no, but it is necessary to

get if you're gonna build a slab
foundation, it's necessary to

get that thing in the ground
right. It's not fire. You gotta

have space for all your plumbing
and that part, yeah, if you

don't do that right, my guy, yo,
shit is gonna be like the house

built on the sand, and it's
going to crumble. You're going

to see cracks. You're going to
have an unstable structure

getting knocked the fuck down,
because we live in the worst

place ever for their stupid
storms. That part, that's that's

the reason why there's a lot of
there was a lot of trees that

got uprooted because they were
planted in spaces where they

didn't have space, the space to
go down, that's correct. And

because of that,
storm comes to roots for shallow

and it got toppled over. Now my
my house, our house, has four

trees. It does, one on the
right, one on the left, behind

the fence, and then two big ass
mcnogger trees in the front

yard. They're my favorite.

That's like mine too, the whole
and they've been there for 3040,

years now. Yeah,
I know they planted them after

they moved in. They moved in in
83 so I'm sorry, my house, your

grand your dad grew up in. No,
he live in. My grandparents old

house. My grandparents.

Passed away, and we bought their
old home for for reference. And

so this is, this is why this
discussion is being had, right?

So, yes, they built this house,
and they planted these trees,

and they're gorgeous, and
they're gorgeous, and they're

all around you got like, Oh, two
oak trees, two oaks and two

Magnolia two magnolias. And the
storms come hurricane bear, only

thing that fell off with the
branches, but because them

joints have space grow and
develop roots like I don't have

a decent lawn because the
magnolia trees roots like

I want to repack it with dirt
and put some side. The point is

they're healthy.

They had the space to get down
deep and spread out, yeah, yeah.

And our foundation into our
house is not even affected,

yeah, because there's space,
because there's space. Imagine

having land. I'm I've recently
finished a book,

the title is all black girls are
activists. There's a very long

subtitle that I can't remember.

It's also upstairs, should I go
grab it? You don't have to go

grab it. However, it's by ebony
janiece. Both names don't take

one off, period. And the things
that she talks about, one of

them is definitely like the idea
that particularly as black

people and black women, but
black people, this is a thing

for black people in general,
probably bipoc as well, but like

that, we are taught to take up
as little space as possible

to be. And like I said, this is
specifically for women. Men

don't get quite the same
indoctrination, but for women

like to take up as little space
as possible, to not be

obtrusive, to not be loud, to
not like, feel your feelings.

You. I was trained in the art of
emotional suppression. I am

quite good at it. It is
incredibly detrimental.

To say my roots are bound, is an
understatement. Also, hashtag

therapy on my way,
on my way. Hopefully, by the

next season of this, I can say a
little bit more about that,

because I've actually been
through some however,

the the the way that we as a
people, black, FEM so on and so

forth, are taught to become
small, to not rock the boat, to

to assimilate, to
degrees that people probably

don't even recognize in
themselves, not just like code

switching. I mean, Code
switching is a big one. Yeah,

right, changing our names or
using our initials on, you know,

things, so that our parents even
our appearances, you know, the

whole thing about hair and all
of that. How do we stay safe?

How do we I move my hands in
such a way that doesn't make me

a threat? How do I never put my
hands in my pocket in the store

so people don't think I'm
stealing right? How do I

modulate my voice when somebody
has aggressed me? Yeah, and

they're like, they're literally
being aggressive, but I can't be

the angry black women, right? Or
how do I moderate my voice to

sound more feminine? Because
black and feminine are not

inherent in people's minds. The
list is so long, the way that

you walk the Can you turn flips
until you're 12 because you have

too big of a butt, like the list
of things that we are told we

don't get to do because we are
black, because we are FEM,

because we are queer, whatever
it is, the list of things you

don't get to do, sometimes just
to be safe and sometimes just to

not make other people air quotes
uncomfortable

is ridiculous, and you get bound
up, and you carry a lot of that

a lot of times, and we spend a
lot of time unpacking that,

trying to
uproot those ideas that made us

think we had to be less of
ourselves than we actually are.

And once you start to do that
work, yeah, it's hard, it's

dark, it's uncomfortable and
it's scary, but when you start

coming out on the other side,
it's like, oh, oh, my God, I've

broken through the dirt. I can
see the sun. Look. There is air

out here, you know. But it takes
it takes work, and it's scary,

but as long as you're clinging
to like, I know I'm safe over

here. I know this. I know that
you know nothing, because you

can literally get a pot of water
and ask somebody not to shoot

you, and they'll do it anyway.

Yep, you might as well be
yourself. Well, and that's it,

like it's so I remember, uh, so
for context, I don't know,

around the age of 30, I went
through a divorce, and that

year, my biggest takeaway y'all,
30 was one of my favorite ages.

It was a tough year, but it was
one of my favorite ages, because

what I learned that year is, I
don't know shit. I don't know

anything, even the things I
thought I knew about myself to

be true, like proven to not be
true. And I was just like, well,

girl, if you don't know things
that, what do you know?

So I was.

Like, well, what happens when
you don't know anything, then I

have the freedom to learn
everything, right? And so then,

like that started me down, like
my whole, like, spiritual

journey, yeah, right? Of being
like that, I will say, of all

the things to let go, the way I
conceived of my spiritual

identity was the hardest,
because, well, when a hell

exists to put you in, yeah,
eternal damnation is fucking

terrifying, right?

Motivated.

So, like, there are journal
entries. I'm also a lifelong

journaler, and so I have journal
entries like, way back to, like,

third grade, I think because
somebody threw away my Lisa

Frank, and I don't know who, but
we need to fight anyhow, but,

but, like, I remember reading
journal entries from that era,

and it was like, I'm literally
writing to God, like, God,

here's what I'm letting go.

Please don't let me go to hell.

God, I would like to try this.

Please don't let me go to hell.

Like, if I'm wrong, just steer
me back and like at this point,

I will trust you to do so. But
what I do know is I can no

longer function under this set
of rules, because this set of

rules is against who I am in so
many ways. And like, if you made

me and I actually don't, got no
beef with me. And I got, like at

the time, I had so many other
beefs with myself, but not the

in these particular ways, like
help guide. And what happened

was, when I let go, it wasn't
God putting the rules on me, it

was me holding on to the rules
that everybody else had put on

me. And so when I let that go,
it was And y'all, when I say

terrifying, like I
it was really scary, because

we're talking about the fate of
my soul, right, right? Like, who

gives a shit about this other
stuff that's material when the

fate of your soul is at risk?

But what I learned is, it turns
out, it was not that at risk,

that as I thought it was right,
and like, God can hold my

questioning, God can hold my
doubt, God can hold my

uncertainty right. And honestly
thrives there.

Man, that does the best work in
that, in that realm,

okay? That registered, that
resonated,

right? We still give references
like we we just talked. It's a

flexible word, yeah? It's a
flexible word. It's a flexible

so, but everybody can't use it.

Girl, I was about to say, let me
be clear. I'm about, I was about

to say it.

So the idea that you mentioned
about

God writing to God and saying,
Hey, I gotta let these go. These

are let me go. And so that I
went down a similar line of

thinking that, like early years
of my marriage, I told

Christian. I was like, Look, I
can't be in relationship with a

God that in the back of my head
wants to kill me, you know, yep,

it's like, I don't, yeah, I
can't reconcile the two. I

understand. This is my fucking
theology. I've been preaching

since I was 16. I'm church boy.

Yeah, all the way I get it. But
I started to think about this

shit that sounds very Stockholm
Syndrome is, yes, it sounds very

traumatic, and I get it. I don't
care how you legalize. A lawyer

would talk about you. I don't
see hell. You see yourself in

hell. Why is it there? Why is
who maintains it? Who keeps it?

Who powers hell? Who powers him,
who pays his light bills, who

keeps this shit on, who? And so
you want to say, Satan. Okay,

then Satan is an equal power to
God. Like, what are we doing?

This is the conversation. So, so
again, the narrative started

unraveling. Then, like, you
know, start thinking through.

And again, it's and it's like,
and I haven't gone to the to the

lens of, like to be an atheist,
yeah, but it's definitely put me

in a more necessary, no, it's
not God. God exists. He's done

enough. The stories about him
can be questioned. But him,

right? Them in particular, for
me, that's not, not on the

table. Yeah, big, higher power,
energy,

not on the table, if you like.

Again, if you're atheist in
here, we would love you and we

respect you. You're welcome. I
don't have no beef with you. No.

Everybody has to do their own
journey. Everybody has to do

their own study. And if you have
reason to the point that there,

that God does not have that the
idea of God has no relevance. Or

resident, you know, whatever,
President, God's cool, but you

do. I would also like invite you
to be opening your certainty as

well, right? We all can be open,
not to, like, change your mind,

but to answer questions, baby.

Why is it dark? It just shifted
for free. It was like, turned

off the light. He's about to
run. Who turned I don't need no

more rain. Jesus, no, that's
real. I mean, don't say that,

though, because normally we in a
drought in the summer. So yeah,

we ain't in no dryer. I know we
got so much water. Who else

needs some water? We got extra.

I will trade you water for
stable electric grid.

Atheists.

Y'all also, sorry, atheism, also
neurodivergence. It's a lot of

it in this room, and so you
know, just we're gonna do our

best to stay on track. But just
know, yeah, so we were talking

about like, we want to invite
everybody in the space to

release the certainties that
they have around God, whether he

exists, doesn't exist. What kind
of faith practice is the right

one? Air quotes again, yeah, um,
that's what we want this space

to be. Is a place where we can
have these conversations, and it

doesn't turn into people
yelling, you know, because right

My way is the best way. Like,
I'm not coming at you with that

energy. I'm just going to speak
from like. So we, all of us, are

speaking from our experiences
and our stories, and hopefully

you'll be at some parts of that
will resonate with you in ways

that help you.

And again, being in America, we
get this tendency to want to

think that that some one way,
that one way has to be the best

way, right? And and it has to be
the best way for everybody,

unilateral that don't even make
sense. It doesn't make

like, I want y'all to listen to
that back. That don't make

sense. It don't make no sense.

You can have a sibling and
what's best for your sibling and

what's best for you. And y'all
grow up in the same house. There

are twins who can't tolerate
doing the same thing. Hello.

Like I put in the same reverent
and all of that, in the same

clothes, in the same clothes,
got the same parents, yeah, they

came into the world at the same
time, relatively, right,

compared to the rest of us for
app, absolutely right. So same,

general roommates for real,
yeah? And they got, they're not

the same, um, so, you know, so
why we gotta all we don't need

to one size fits all anything
here. Yeah, Chris, you was

talking about the atheist, yeah,
I gave them an invitation to be

open, right, right, just right.

You said to be open. And again,
that's the point of it. Is that

for me, when I was in my
journey, that's what we're

talking about, questioning
my relationship to God and what

is acceptable and what is not
acceptable for us as a unit to

thrive, me and me and God in
particular, hell was just like,

you know, I don't need to be
scared there. Yeah, I don't. I

know I've done some things or
whatever, and when I say I've

I've been human, I'm gonna say
that I've committed

no crimes but the law. It was
nothing but of the soul, of the

soul. Sometimes
she literally, I say this all

the time. She married her best
friend in more than wasted one.

I did. They're they're like,
eerily similar, yeah, sometimes

and I'm like, Good god, I
really. I was like, I need a

male Whitney.

Found him.

Found him.

Yeah. So hold her on the things,
feel free to not feel free to

explore that, especially when
the story that you've been told

is not working for you in your
life, that part you need to be

able to tweak that. Your your
story is still being told, your

pen is still to the paper. You
can write a new chapter on

everything, including God. All
of us have ideas about God

that we need to shape and shift.

And part of being in this
experience, and part of being

here is to explore and
experience God in new ways, and

not to have arrived to the point
to where I found a true way, and

there's no deviation from this
script, yeah, nobody. No, not

even in Hollywood, do they? Are
they committed to a script like

that, that they that they feel
like they can't change it? Yeah,

they're writing off in a minute.

Absolutely. Rewrites are
happening all the time.

People go in real time. So you
know? So you know, nothing is

for certain, yeah,
and that's good that. That

should be good news.

It should be good news. Nothing
is for certain, because you

don't always feel that. I think
it actually induces a lot of

anxiety for people, right?

Because if nothing's for
certain, what can I stand on?

And I think this is stand on
business period, stand on the

Word.

But I think there are things
this is why it's so important to

become grounded in self, and not
just self, but like whatever

your higher power, you can call
it God. You can call it creator.

You can call it universe. You
could call it big. I don't care.

But you know, like staying
grounded in knowing that, like

you are here on purpose, all
will be well, all things are

working towards your good, and
that you've got you right. And I

think that's important. This is
why it's important to do our

inner work so that you can.

Be in a place where you're like,
oh, no, no one else has to save

me. I don't need a sky daddy and
a cape because that that is not

the form of God in which I
believe, right? Like, that's not

how God necessarily functions
for me. Yeah, it's not a sky

daddy and a cape or, like, you
know, on a white horse. Yeah.

God is not some outside entity,
right? It's not connected to me,

right? And so, like, if God is
in you, which, if you

traditional Christian, I'm just
gonna say that's the holy

Sprite, okay? It's on the inside
at work. Yes, you know. And so,

like it is in you. And so trust,
it's a matter of, like, this is

Faith, this is Faith, this is
trust. And it is even though,

what is it? Faith is the subject
of things hoped for, the

evidence of things. And so like,
Yeah, you can't see it, but it's

that. It's a deep, settled inner
knowing that, like, all this

shit could crumble and I'm gonna
be good. There's this imagery

that I liked in the Marvel movie
with the X Men. And there's this

scene where Magneto is trying to
get from one part to Magneto is

one of the villains. Magneto is
one of the villains.

And so magnetos power, mutant
superpower, is to like, he can

attract metal. Oh, because he's
magnetic, because he's making,

that's what our names are, big,
very important. And this is who,

who plays Magneto. It doesn't
matter. Keep going. I'm sorry,

going on. Going on. Anyway,
Magneto, yes, Magneto. And so

he's, he's going, he finally
breaking out of, broken out of

prison because someone handed
him a key, whatever, so he can

manipulate a small piece of
metal. I think. Okay, breaks out

of prison. Wait, they handed it
to him. He couldn't just draw it

to himself. No, no. So they,
they basically enclosed him in

plastic
so there was nothing that he

could use.

It's, it makes sense, if you
watch the movies,

can't believe it's superhero and
suspend disbelief. But you can't

suspend it in your own life,
you know? Sorry, somebody digs

through
the plastic somehow hands him

this tiny metal key that he that
he couldn't attract because he

was in plastic hurt because it
was far away. He gets out of

prison. Okay? Magnets fail.

Magnetic fields. There's still
science on that. Yeah, no, that

makes sense.

And so, of course, there's a
steep space between him and

where he needs to be. And so
he's walking, and as he's

walking, he's the platform is
building as he's walking,

because he's drawing, he's
drawing metal from the wall.

That's it. That's attraction,
yeah. And so

him trying to build the entire
like expanse while he's at one

end, as he takes a step, it
shows us as he arrives. It

appears as he arrives. And so
that's my life shouting is on a

Marvel movie. Anyway. Magneto
the villain,

Professor X, represent two
opposing ideologies. So repeat

that, because I didn't hear that
over my own thoughts. He and

Professor X, the other mutant,
represent two opposing

ideologies. Stan Lee, the One
who created comic thought, not

to be confused with Stan Smith,
who is who I'm always confusing

him, right? So Professor X is
kind of representing this is

going into comic Lord, but I'm
not necessarily too far. Babe

represents Martin Luther King.

Professor X,
that's the idea behind

black character. Of course,
they're not, no, they're not

black in the comic. They're not
black in the comic. So that's

why I said, y'all stay still.

That's, well, that's why I said
we don't need to go that far,

because it's a that's, that's,
that's complicated. The reason

Stanley did what he did, that's
a whole separate conversation.

However, the point is,
as it comes, right? What did you

say? What was the phrase we said
that? Y'all both said it and I

forgot it. Attract, attraction,
as you arrive, as you arrive.

There we go. It comes as you it
will come when you arrive. Yes,

Lord Jesus, it comes when you
when it's time, it's time. And I

think that is alignment right?

Is that you get what you need
when you need to get it right.

And you have that power. You do.

Everyone has that power to walk.

You don't.

Bible talks about is without
faith. It is.

Possible to please God.

And
what that means by that is that

you don't get to exist on this
plane without exerting a level

of faith
on any level. Okay, I can, I

don't, you know, like said, it
took me, it didn't take any

faith or whatever. I believed
that this chair would hold me. I

didn't know that it would, yeah,
but I sat in it believing that

it would. You know, there's
trust that happens with evil.

With babies exerting trust. They
trust that when they cry, they

will get food. And so they do,
yeah, and that cry becomes the

substance of things that are
hoped for. That cry becomes the

evidence of things that are not
seen. I don't see food, but I

believe that if I do this, food
will come, yep. And so there are

things that we do that are that
we do by faith but, and that's

the coupling of faith and work.

Faith without works is dead,
yeah, if you believe it, then go

do something about it. That
part, if you believe that, like

you said, If you believe that
there's greater for you at the

at the end of a job, okay, go,
yeah. And again, the path will

become clear as you go. But
yeah, that's why I just wanna

say, but our faith is impossible
to please God, right? But you

know what that and I know we
gotta wrap but I think the

challenge here is that
oftentimes we in in making God

in our image. We often like, I
think about how we were taught

about God, Christian like Father
God, right, right? So we tend to

make God into a parent. That is
really complicated. When your

parents are people that are
easily displeased, or your

parents are people, right? And
they come with their own things,

like we talked about earlier,
right? And so you're constantly

feeling like, oh, shit, can't do
this, can't do that, gotta,

like,
tuck clip, all these things to

please this person. The
difference between your parent

and God is that God is a God,
right? And God can meet your

needs. And so I think in order
for a lot of us, in order to

learn to have faith in God and
learn to trust that if we cry,

then the need will be met. We're
gonna have to unpack the feeling

and fear that it won't, and
where that stems from. And for a

lot of us, that might be
parental relationships, and

maybe not, like, Oh, my parents
like Blackpool, they didn't feed

me, but oftentimes we didn't
get, like, emotional things

that we needed. Some people
absolutely physical, right?

Sometimes you didn't have
physical safety or physical

provision, but are being
provided for.

But you know, it that emotional
safety can it scars you. And

then, if you relate God to a
parent, Father, God, right? Now,

it's like, Oh, what if he
doesn't, and what if, what if he

punishes me, right? Right?

Because that is what your
parents do. But you're God and

your parents are not the same,
yeah. And here's the thing

again, without faith is
impossible to please God, but

it's impossible to live here
without faith. That's it. So

that means to God, in God's
eyes, you God is perpetually

pleased, yeah? That's
because you're, you're walking,

you could walk a little bit more
faith and all that, he's giving

every man of measure of faith.

That's, that's Romans, yep. So
if he's giving you a measure of

faith, without faith is a
positive pleasing, then he's

perpetually Please, yeah, yeah.

So connect those connected and
rest in that, and even in the

uncertain moments. Again, all
power is his power. And what

space can you take with a God
that is perpetually pleased? How

can you show up if you know
you're not going to disappoint

God, how does that change how
you show up? What space does

that create in your life and in
your body,

right? If I can't be wrong and
not, like, wrong, obviously,

don't murder, right? You're not
talking about the, like, basic

moralism. Like, don't go
murdering people, yeah. But

like, if, if, my if I cannot
make a wrong decision because

I'm acting out of faith,
regardless. Um,

well, how does that alleviate
that pressure? How does that

alleviate that anxiety that
you're going to get it wrong and

somehow be punished for it
right? And also, I'm just going

to speak from my experience,
God, ain't never punished me

that has given me opportunity to
grow. And I'm not saying it

like, Oh, it's a euphemism like,
oh, you know where you didn't do

that bad. It's an opportunity to
it's a growth opportunity. No,

no, I'm not saying that. What I
am saying is, Have I been

through some hard shit? Yo, yo,
yo. This shit is,

I have experienced, sometimes,
the consequences of my own

decisions. I have often, often
also experienced the

consequences of other people's
decisions.

Especially, like as a kid,
right, right? But everything is

usable, and at no point was God
punishing me. And so if you take

off that lens, release the lens
of like, punishment, because

hell is also a punishment,
right? Like, yes, and punishment

is just a mechanism for control.

Can we talk about it? Let's not.

We don't got time, but yeah, we
go home with that. Yeah,

punishment is just a mechanism
for control. So if you take out

this, this mechanism, how do you
move?

How do you move when you know
that God is not looking for you

to fuck up and waiting for an
opportunity to then bash you in

or put you in timeout, or take
something you love or someone

you love, right? How does that
change? Right your life? And

some people don't want to deal
with that at all. Um, deal with

that question at all. Y'all
don't have to deal with it.

Well, why do I follow God if I
ain't going to go to hell? What?

That's a good question. That is
a it's a great question to ask.

It's a good question to ask, and
we're going to keep asking those

questions. Yeah, um, over the
next few weeks, we're going to

be diving more into some of the
more, yeah, the nitty gritty on

some of the aspects of certainty
and what it produces and what we

can do instead, what we can do
instead, what we can do instead.

Because we're all about the
like, how do I move forward in a

different way, in a way that
actually serves me well. So

hopefully you took something
away from today. I want to thank

you so much for joining us in
this time, in this first episode

of the podcast.

It's up from here, y'all, it can
only go up better.

It's going to improve. Thank you
for you being patient with us

and hanging out with us, and we
will see you next week. Please

be sure to like and subscribe
and follow us on social media,

also on wherever you listen to
podcasts, so you can get updated

when we release a new one. And
feel free to to like and share

and leave comments and tell us
what you like and what you want

to see. Yeah, sensational, no,
no, although, if you're

listening, sir, you're really
big, yeah, and all

mentee, he makes me look like
me. That's a fine specimen

there. I just want to say I'm
married and all that. Yeah. I

mean he's also same, I also love
women, and that man is

the man says, Mr. Sensational.

He big, fine man. Won't you
thank them?

I will show him to you in the
end. Okay? I was like, that's

that who sings that song.

All right, y'all take care. Much
Love all around

thanks for joining us on this
episode of The uproot project

podcast. We hope you found fresh
perspective and continue to make

space for real growth. If you
enjoyed today's conversation, be

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