Claude Is Becoming OpenClaw (And It's Better)

We explore Anthropic's eight major releases in eight weeks, including Claude Cowork, which transforms desktop interactions into a potential "Claude OS." We discuss implications for market competitors and investor excitement around possible IPOs for Anthropic and OpenAI. It's time to start using these innovative tools, understand their potential to reshape technology interactions, and usher in the future of AI.

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TIMESTAMPS

0:00 New Features and Claude OS
1:30 The Power of Computer Use
2:52 Anthropic’s Rapid Development
4:29 Comparing Claude and OpenClaw
6:33 The Vision for an AI Operating System
8:38 The Claude OS Stack
10:29 Market Sentiment and IPO Expectations
11:57 Caution with Computer Use
13:40 The Future of AI Interaction

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RESOURCES

Josh: https://x.com/JoshKale

Ejaaz: https://x.com/cryptopunk7213

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Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:
https://www.bankless.com/disclosures⁠

Creators and Guests

Host

Ejaaz Ahamadeen

Host

Josh Kale

What is Limitless: An AI Podcast?

Exploring the frontiers of Technology and AI

Ejaaz:
Over the last eight weeks, Anthropic shipped more products than companies do over the entire year.

Ejaaz:
Eight new features that completely replace OpenClaw. Claude Cowork that automates

Ejaaz:
your desktop work, Claude Cowork that reviews and edits your code,

Ejaaz:
and just yesterday, they released computer use.

Ejaaz:
Claude can now access and operate your entire computer. That means any file,

Ejaaz:
any tool, any app Claude can access and intelligently operate,

Ejaaz:
your own digital worker that lives on your computer.

Ejaaz:
Each of these features individually are great, but collectively they form something much more powerful.

Ejaaz:
A new AI native operating system, maybe we call it Claude OS,

Ejaaz:
that competes directly with Apple Mac OS and Windows.

Ejaaz:
Claude is now no longer a chatbot or an LLM.

Ejaaz:
It has become an entire AI operating system and that is much more powerful than

Ejaaz:
anything we've seen before.

Josh:
There's a few like, oh my god, I can't believe it could do this moments that

Josh:
have happened fairly recently.

Josh:
One of them is when it took over my browser for the first time.

Josh:
I'll never forget the moment where suddenly a browser opens up my screen and

Josh:
pages start opening and an AI starts interfacing with the system on my machine.

Josh:
And that just happened again yesterday when for the first time the AI took my

Josh:
cursor on my display, moved it around, clicked on things, changed my window

Josh:
sizes, moved sliders around. It actually took over.

Josh:
It reached through the computer and started doing things on my desktop.

Josh:
It was unbelievable. And I know that people who use OpenClaw,

Josh:
they're like, we've had this for months and weeks and like for a very long time.

Josh:
But this works with all of the infrastructure that I already have and that I

Josh:
trust. It's very cool and it's very powerful.

Josh:
There's essentially no limit to the possibilities in which it could do when

Josh:
it comes to engaging with your machine.

Ejaaz:
It is very slow. It's a little bit clunky, but this is the worst this feature is ever going to be.

Ejaaz:
And the crazy part is you can give Claude access to anything on your computer,

Ejaaz:
even if it is a work portal or if it is a email or Slack or calendar,

Ejaaz:
it can now do things autonomously and intelligently for you,

Ejaaz:
which is a massive jump up from Claude Cowork or anything that we've seen before

Ejaaz:
which has been limited by apis or connectors or plugins

Ejaaz:
This is Claude looking at the screen and operating just like you would as a human.

Josh:
You could be anywhere in the world and you could text Claude through dispatch

Josh:
and it will actually use your computer and it can do anything.

Josh:
If you wanted to edit a photo, you could have it open up Photoshop and drag the sliders.

Josh:
If you wanted to create you a playlist on Spotify, it can open up your Spotify

Josh:
window and create a playlist for you.

Josh:
It's also important to note how this works because it takes a little while before

Josh:
you actually get to this point.

Josh:
What it will do prior to this when you ask it something is try to sift

Josh:
through the connectors that you already have with the

Josh:
cloud application so if you want it to interface with slack

Josh:
or if you want to interface with google drive or your email or your calendar

Josh:
those are all plugins and connectors that you can add to the cloud desktop application

Josh:
that allows it to interface much quicker than that if there are no connectors

Josh:
if there are no connected accounts then it will defer to actual full computer

Josh:
use where it takes over your mouse it takes over the keyboard it's

Ejaaz:
Very impressive to just see an ai I maneuver my laptop and screen without me even touching it.

Ejaaz:
I just want to pay attention now to the speed of execution that Anthropic has

Ejaaz:
gone on, because this shouldn't be understated.

Ejaaz:
They've shipped all these features which allow and have led up to computer use.

Ejaaz:
Eight weeks. Take a look at this crazy timeline.

Ejaaz:
So eight weeks ago, they shipped something called Claude Cowork,

Ejaaz:
which you're seeing on the screen right now.

Ejaaz:
And it basically automates a bunch of stuff on your desktop.

Ejaaz:
But it's different from computer use because it requires plugins,

Ejaaz:
it requires connectors, it requires different access and permissions to tools.

Ejaaz:
Computer use is different because it sees the screen like a human would,

Ejaaz:
it moves the mouse like a human would.

Ejaaz:
Then a few weeks later, it released a marketplace for enterprise SaaS tools

Ejaaz:
released just for enterprise companies.

Ejaaz:
And the idea here is they can access any enterprise tool or service,

Ejaaz:
such as a legal Zoom or a legal plugin and do all that contractual work for them.

Ejaaz:
And that resulted in a bunch of stocks completely tanking.

Ejaaz:
I remember when the legal plugin was released, it resulted in a 35% drop in

Ejaaz:
the major legal stocks within the hour of them announcing it on X, which is pretty insane.

Ejaaz:
Then a few weeks later after that, they released Claude Code Review,

Ejaaz:
which was like a security tool for your Claude Code.

Ejaaz:
They then released Claude Remote Control, which allowed you to text Claude.

Ejaaz:
They then released Computer Use, which was funneled by this company called Vercept,

Ejaaz:
which they acquired only four weeks ago.

Ejaaz:
The point is, they have been on an absolute blitz.

Ejaaz:
And it's crazy how they've created this open Claude Killer in such a short time.

Josh:
Yeah. So for a lot of companies, we can really only judge them on their product

Josh:
velocity, how fast they're able to ship new and noteworthy features.

Josh:
And hearing the fact that Claude Cowork is eight weeks old is like pretty insane.

Josh:
Eight weeks is not a long time. And in eight weeks, we went from launching the

Josh:
research preview of Cowork to full computer desktop use.

Josh:
So eight weeks from now, you have to imagine not only will all these features be

Josh:
incredibly better than they are today, but there will be far more of them available.

Josh:
The chart that we have on screen here, I guess it's comparing OpenClaw to ClaudeCowork.

Josh:
And as we're comparing these two

Josh:
charts, you'll notice that the core functionality is basically the same.

Josh:
It controls your computer, you can message from your phone, you can message from chat apps.

Josh:
The difference lies within the enterprise and the tools feature set,

Josh:
where enterprise integration, security, governments, none of these are going

Josh:
to actually use the OpenClaw system because of a lot of security concerns.

Josh:
Anthropic, as we know, is built for enterprise solutions. So a lot of companies

Josh:
are going to be trusting this a lot more.

Josh:
A lot of companies are going to trust the fact that Anthropic will implement

Josh:
this more securely, more effectively,

Josh:
and more in a way that's just easier for an enterprise to use.

Josh:
Or if you're just the average user, easier for you to use because you already

Josh:
have all this downloaded on your phone and on your desktop application.

Ejaaz:
And if we remember, it was only, I think, four weeks ago that OpenAI acquired

Ejaaz:
OpenClaw. and presumably they did it to build a very similar thing to what Anthropic

Ejaaz:
just released over the last eight weeks.

Ejaaz:
It's pretty crazy that Anthropic out-shipped them. But to your point,

Ejaaz:
I think Anthropic didn't get engaged with OpenClaw in any way.

Ejaaz:
They actually banned a lot of OpenClaw users from using OpenClaw with Claude

Ejaaz:
because they built their own thing and it's just safer, easier,

Ejaaz:
and probably cheaper to use. If you have a Pro or Mac subscription,

Ejaaz:
you now get access to this.

Ejaaz:
It's only functional on macOS for now, but presumably it becomes Windows.

Ejaaz:
Speaking of macOS, and Windows, there is a bigger plan that was revealed to

Ejaaz:
me yesterday when they launched this feature, Josh, which is...

Ejaaz:
If I step away for a second and look at what Anthropik has built,

Ejaaz:
they've built an LLM that can code for you, that can speak to you,

Ejaaz:
that can monitor and use your desktop, that can use your browser for you.

Ejaaz:
It sounds like a new AI operating system.

Ejaaz:
So I can't help but think that Anthropik's grand plan isn't to build the best LLM.

Ejaaz:
It's to build a brand new AI operating system that might compete directly with Windows or Mac OS.

Josh:
Yeah, well, they're doing it without directly saying it. I admire OpenAI for

Josh:
the fact that they've been saying for years now that their sole intention is

Josh:
to build an AI operating system.

Josh:
They want the operating system for your entire life. There wasn't really a blueprint for that.

Josh:
No one really knew quite what that would look like until OpenClaw came around

Josh:
and showed people that, wow, this claw infrastructure is actually kind of cool.

Josh:
It takes the core components of a computer.

Josh:
It has the memory. It has the processing. It has storage.

Josh:
And it applies it to an AI agentic system.

Josh:
And I think once that OpenClaw blueprint became real, once that claw blueprint

Josh:
became real, A lot of companies are now just racing to do that.

Josh:
So now Anthropic, without explicitly saying it, is very much building the Anthropic OS.

Josh:
You have all of their functionality built into one application on your desktop.

Josh:
It's now working with your phone. They're planning to just integrate more and

Josh:
more into this. OpenAI has been trying to.

Josh:
They have clearly been behind because Anthropic has been shipping so quickly recently.

Josh:
And then we have OpenClaw, which feels like the open source Linux version.

Josh:
So if I had to pin each one of these companies to something more relatable today,

Josh:
it's probably OpenClaw is kind of like Linux. It is universal, open source.

Josh:
It is core infrastructure that a lot of people will build on because it is

Josh:
Stable and open source and you have

Josh:
full control over that and then there's anthropic which is probably

Josh:
closer to microsoft i feel and then open ai and

Josh:
chat gpt are close to apple they have the hardware angle

Josh:
incoming they're working with the apple designer johnny ive but each one of

Josh:
these is kind of working to build their own operating system and it's actually

Josh:
working fairly well and you're seeing the early signs of it where it's starting

Josh:
to take over and kind of consume the existing mac operating system that we're

Josh:
using and then i'm sure there is certainly a plan to even displace that?

Ejaaz:
Yeah, so we have this cool visual here, which shows the Claude OS stack as it exists today.

Ejaaz:
You've got the intelligence, which is basically the model called 4.6 Opus and Sonnet.

Ejaaz:
You've got the developer stack, which is called code. You've got the desktop,

Ejaaz:
which is now co-work and the new feature they released yesterday, computer use.

Ejaaz:
They've got mobile via dispatch, so you can text Claude and a bunch of other

Ejaaz:
things and tooling MCP, which creates this entire operating system.

Ejaaz:
I actually kind of disagree with you on Anthropic or Claude being like Windows,

Ejaaz:
I think it's probably more like Apple for one specific reason,

Ejaaz:
which is they seem to be leaning hard into the marketplace, which suggests to

Ejaaz:
me that Anthropic might release their own app store with a range of different

Ejaaz:
plugins that Claude can get access to.

Ejaaz:
Because one thing that computer use, this new feature allows,

Ejaaz:
is developers to build an app for computer use specifically that they can launch

Ejaaz:
on Anthropic's hypothetical app store and give access to the 19 million daily

Ejaaz:
Claude code users which use these different tools.

Ejaaz:
So that distribution, I think, is very attractive.

Ejaaz:
And that's the same kind of attractive distribution that Apple created back in the early days.

Josh:
And what's funny is the market demand is very much reflective of this in terms

Josh:
of daily active users, but also in terms of money.

Josh:
Now, there's been a lot of rumors recently that these companies are going to go public soon.

Josh:
And we kind of had a dry run of what that looks like through this weird company called

Josh:
VCX. Now, there's a venture fund named Fundrise.

Josh:
And what they did is they took their private shareholdings that they have in

Josh:
Anthropic, in OpenAI, in SpaceX, in Databricks, and a few other companies,

Josh:
and they listed it publicly on the stock exchange.

Josh:
That was listed a week ago for about $34 was the IPO price.

Josh:
This morning, it traded at $312 per share. That's a 15 times return on investment

Josh:
over the course of five days.

Josh:
So clearly there is an unbelievable amount of demand for it.

Josh:
And if you run the map on these numbers, it's pretty interesting. So

Josh:
It has a NAV of $19 per share, and this morning it traded at $312 per share,

Josh:
which means the market is valuing a fund, which has $650 million in assets, at $5.8 billion.

Josh:
That's an eight times premium on the assets held in the fund because people

Josh:
are so unbelievably desperate for exposure to these assets, to Anthropic, to OpenAI.

Josh:
They want to be invested in the stock of the future. And the problem with this

Josh:
alignment conversation, particularly in the case of Anthropic,

Josh:
is they're so focused on alignment, on everything but financial alignment, right?

Josh:
It's like, if you want true and total alignment with the mission,

Josh:
there needs to be some sort of vested interest that people can take in it.

Josh:
And that very clearly feels like an IPO.

Josh:
I just don't know why they're taking their sweet time doing it.

Josh:
And what we can do is we can reflect this market sentiment on the IPO that's

Josh:
coming possibly later this year,

Josh:
possibly early next year, through our friends over at Polymarket,

Josh:
who actually have a market built just for this, which is a test to see what

Josh:
the anthropic ipo closing market price will look like on the day that it does

Josh:
ipo and it's pretty high there's an 82 chance it closes over 600 billion dollars

Ejaaz:
What it is right now.

Josh:
Twice what it is right now which means there's a lot of upside there's

Josh:
a lot of excitement around anthropic and

Josh:
you can see the chart has been trending upwards for a little while we have a

Josh:
similar one with open ai and it appears as if open

Josh:
ai is going to be even larger than anthropic by 30

Josh:
to maybe 50 percent so it's funny while we sit here

Josh:
saying how anthropic has so much growth the market still very much believes

Josh:
that open ai is these larger company by a fairly significant margin and they

Josh:
have the average ipo closing market cap at around 952 billion dollars just shy

Josh:
of a trillion so these are going to be absolutely massive launches the only

Josh:
question is when they're going to get here

Josh:
And we'll keep our eye on it and we will keep you posted on the progress towards

Josh:
that. Thank you, Polymarket, for sponsoring this section of the show.

Ejaaz:
And that brings us to the end of the episode. This product and feature is very new.

Ejaaz:
Computer use isn't probably recommended to everyone. Don't give Claude access

Ejaaz:
to your entire computer just yet.

Ejaaz:
Use small, subtle tasks to see if it actually works like we did and showed you today on the episode.

Ejaaz:
We hope you enjoyed it. If you are watching this on YouTube,

Ejaaz:
please like and subscribe and turn on notifications. It helps us out massively.

Ejaaz:
We've been going on an absolute tear. on our recent episodes.

Ejaaz:
The episode that we released on Monday, I believe has currently,

Ejaaz:
as I'm looking at it right now, has hit over 16,000 views, I believe, which is just insane.

Ejaaz:
Thank you guys so much for your support. If you're listening to this on Spotify

Ejaaz:
or Apple Music, please subscribe to us, follow us, give us a five-star rating

Ejaaz:
if you feel that we're worthy of it.

Ejaaz:
Or maybe ask Claude to do it via your desktop.

Ejaaz:
Maybe use computer use, that also helps. Josh, is there anything else you want to share?

Josh:
Yeah, I'd like to encourage everyone to try this. I think everyone will be surprised

Josh:
whether or not you use open claw. I think...

Josh:
Applying this to your personal computer changes things because I'm one of the

Josh:
people that does have an OpenClaw set up.

Josh:
I have my Claw desktop application running with co-work on it all the time.

Josh:
I've been using this Dispense feature and there's a place for both.

Josh:
So I think people who are OpenClaw power users are going to watch this and probably laugh at it.

Josh:
But I wouldn't shy away from the fact that personal computer use versus your

Josh:
kind of workstation that you've set up for OpenClaw is a very big difference.

Josh:
And also the impact that it has in the fact that Anthropic has so many users

Josh:
that are non-technical, that just want to use AI.

Josh:
This is incredibly easy for them to set up. And the desktop application is great.

Josh:
It has the chatbot, it has co-work, and it has code all built in under one roof.

Josh:
And this sounds like a paid show. It's not. I wish they would sponsor us.

Josh:
It's actually just what I use every single day.

Josh:
So it's a good product that's worth trying because it's very reflective of what

Josh:
the future is going to look like, right? It's like, currently we're typing on

Josh:
our computers, we're clicking things.

Josh:
Currently we're far faster than Claude is. But there's a world in the not-so-distant

Josh:
future where that is no longer true.

Josh:
And once that's not true, it unlocks a lot of really powerful use cases.

Josh:
So it's fun to try it now to get an early glimpse of the future.

Josh:
And even though it's slow and it's a little clunky, it's still worth experimenting with.

Josh:
That way you could stay right on the edge with us as we cover all of the news

Josh:
about frontier AI and technology.

Josh:
So like you just said, thank you guys again for joining us, for sharing this

Josh:
with your friends, for being so supportive and writing amazing things in the comments.

Josh:
I have not been able to answer all of them, but try our best to at least read

Josh:
them and just share some gratitudes with you as well.

Josh:
So thank you so much for watching and we'll see you guys in the next episode.

Ejaaz:
See you guys.