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THE podcast for navigating all things midlife with honesty, humor, and heart
Heidi (00:17)
Welcome to the Evolving Together podcast. I am Heidi Sexton, your host.
Gabby (00:17)
Thank
Heidi (00:21)
we talk about all the things that happen in midlife that we just did not expect to happen.
with honesty, humor, and heart. And I have with me my friend Gabby. And if you have sensitive ears, this is not the podcast for you. Just turn us off. If you have anyone around you with sensitive ears, just go ahead and get some earbuds or something like that.
Because we do get real real fast. So when I'm gabbing with Gabby, we don't know where this is gonna go necessarily. But so hi, welcome. So I know Gabby. We've known each other for a while. And I we met when I was teaching her youngest, who was in fifth grade when I was a fifth grade English language arts teacher, no writing teacher. And we met and I just liked you right off the bat.
Gabby (00:56)
Hello? Hey y'all.
Heidi (01:14)
I ha I had no idea that our whole friendship would just it would just develop. We would we would cross paths over the years and just develop more and more. then I had your oldest in high school and then I had your youngest again in high school and it was like by that time I mean we were old friends. I was like, This is so cool. and and so I've watched your boys grow up and and you've watched my kids actually you you've
Gabby (01:14)
videos.
Right. Right.
Heidi (01:37)
been on WLOX, so you've had interaction with my oldest who is the digital content manager there. And it's just, it's we're really at a very similar place in life as far as like raising adult children. And I it's not what I expected. I mean, I I I don't think I ever thought of the the point we would get to. It's like, our kids grow up. They grow up
Gabby (01:50)
Yes.
Yes, yeah.
Heidi (02:05)
And they don't really need us as much. They go off to college. They're trying to figure out their own way. And it's it's different for everybody, but I think it's especially I don't know, w when I know when your oldest went off to college, I was I warned you, I said, Girl, you better hold on because it's gonna kick your ass. That that gut punch of like that ch your ch your firstborn leaving, it
In e and they do come back, we know. They they do come back. We think they're never gonna come back, but they do. But then it's like
Gabby (02:36)
Right, right.
Heidi (02:42)
it's it's that line of they're no longer little children, you know, they don't need that guidance anymore. They need more of a friend, kind of. And so when they go off to college or the military or something, when they come back, they still need us, but just in a different way. And then
Like how do we figure out what that relationship looks like? And it's challenging, I mean, 'cause they don't want to be babied, but they sure can't figure out their own shit.
Gabby (03:06)
Yeah.
Listen, I have one day I literally can see him, not literally, but with figuratively speaking, him just going in circles and just looking at him you know, and I'm like, you know, the mama in me wants to take charge and say, Hey,
do this, this and this this order. And it no longer works that way. I don't have that type of control. ⁓ I don't have that type of free reign I'm no longer in the driver's seat regarding my adult, young adult kids. ⁓ Before I made the decisions and ⁓ they went along with it. They had no choice. They was in my house.
Heidi (04:12)
Yeah, yeah.
Gabby (04:14)
But
it's a little bit different and it's difficult to see them struggle or see them trying to figure their way through life and not make the final decision, not the deciding factor, but actually have to be a guide now, ⁓ practice patience ⁓ and also practice. ⁓
Heidi (04:26)
Oof.
Gabby (04:40)
Less control, more of a friend, more of a, like I said, a guide and just an encourager and come to come to them in a different perspective versus being an authority figure, which we've always been to say is either my way or the highway or you punish them. Take your phone. I'm gonna take your car keys. We can't do that no more.
Heidi (05:02)
No, I know. And then you see them make these mistakes or you or they start to make a mistake and it's like you want to even if you give them advice that they're not asking for, it doesn't even matter sometimes because they're they're gonna have to find out on their own. I mean, that's something that's so hard. I mean I I feel I feel like I think you and I are probably similar in parenting. It's like we we are close to our kids. And I think that's
Gabby (05:04)
So.
Very close.
Heidi (05:32)
a vi a huge
Gabby (05:32)
Very.
Heidi (05:33)
gift from, you know, when I look at other young adults, they don't have that kind of support. And I think I've always been that mom that their friends would come and say, your mom, you know, she listens, she talks, and I think you're the same. You know, it's like they and they're gonna get it straight. There there's not gonna be this, isn't that special? You know, I'm gonna be like, cut the shit
Gabby (05:53)
No. No. If you suck,
I'mma tell you, you suck. You need to buy something else.
Heidi (05:57)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. I'm very straightforward. and I think I was like that, I think always I mean, I definitely became more of like that when I was a high school teacher, but I just I'm just direct and and I think that they appreciate that most of the time. Sometimes they're like sometimes they're like, Mom, did you did you really just say that? I'm like, Okay, maybe I went a little too much, but ⁓
Gabby (06:03)
Eheh.
Most of the time they do.
Heidi (06:26)
But yeah, I think that it's that shifting of, okay, I'm you don't get a do over either. Like they go off, whether they're going off to college or whatever, it's done. Like that was the hardest thing for me to say, I don't get to go back and do the birthday parties or do the whatever that that kind of parenting is done and that door closes and it's like a death. It it is isn't it kind of like that? And then but the f
Gabby (06:47)
Yes. Yes.
I'm still finding
a way to be extra. I'm not even lie to you. You're not gonna stop me from being extra. don't know about you. In college, I was sending them birthday cakes to the dorm and like, hey, you celebrate with your teammates. know, I mean, listen.
Heidi (07:04)
So what's
⁓ I love that. I didn't
do that. I suck. I didn't do that.
Gabby (07:16)
Listen,
I'm extra and I'm always gonna be. Don't change that about me. I don't care where you're at in life. I don't care who around you. ⁓ I will be. I will find the opportunity to be extra. So no, I would think. No, but my kids weren't as weren't as far. They were like 30-40 minutes away, so I would have a cake sent over and you know they're their college teammates.
Heidi (07:21)
⁓ I love that.
I love that. I think of doing it but I don't.
⁓
Gabby (07:46)
could celebrate with them, you know, or the girlfriend would come over and they'd open up the gifts and I'd take them and the girlfriend. I'm always be extra. I don't know what you talking about. Always.
Heidi (07:55)
Yeah.
Boy, you're setting the you're setting the bar really
high too for their their future partners.
Gabby (08:05)
Listen, I'm a contender. I'm a force to be reckoned with.
Heidi (08:10)
And it's different with boys too, because ⁓ you know, there's what is that saying? when your when your daughter marries a guy, you get a son in law. Wait, what is it? And if when your son marries a woman, you you lose no, you lose your son or something crazy like that. It's it's some saying and I Yeah. Yeah.
Gabby (08:23)
Right.
You get a daughter.
Right, you lose your son and I understand that because she'll be first of all, is he? But
I'll get a daughter. What I'm saying is what I'm thinking, I always talk to a woman, Miss Joanne, I never forget. She had three sons and all of her sons she's very close with and all of her daughter-in-laws. And I asked her, said, Miss Joanne, that's rare that all of your daughter-in-laws like you. You get to raise your grandkids, she keep them and all of that. That's how I met her. I did story time.
Heidi (08:40)
That's tr yeah.
Gabby (09:02)
at Biloxi Library, Margaret Schenner. And she would bring her grandkids there and you would see the different stages. She brought one girl, then the boy, then another one. And I said, Ms. Joanne she said, the key when you have sons, key to keeping a relationship with your sons is to get along with their wives.
Heidi (09:25)
That's good advice. As long as you like As long as you like
Gabby (09:26)
I said, I will never forget that. She said, huh?
It doesn't matter. She said some of them were different and weird and went against whatever she said. If you can get along with the wives, she said, you'll always have your sons around and you'll see your grandkids. That is great advice.
Heidi (09:44)
That's great advice. Yes,
that's great advice. But I also think I think that the the the boys that you are men now, they're men, that you've raised, they they respect women, first of all. And so they're going to pick somebody that's probably very similar to you in in a lot of
Gabby (10:00)
Yes, absolutely.
Similar to their
mom, absolutely.
Heidi (10:08)
Yeah, yeah.
And and that's a good thing. So I think, you know, it's not always a good thing for some people. And your Yeah. Yes.
Gabby (10:15)
Well, it depends on what type of mom you have. Whether good or bad, you're going to pick somebody like your mother.
Heidi (10:22)
I'm curious, did did you always want kids? Was that like a did you
Gabby (10:26)
I was the worst Auntie ever. I didn't want a baby sit. My sister had too many kids, and she was having them back-to-back.
Heidi (10:27)
Me neither.
Heidi (10:34)
hey, I have a huge favor to ask you. Okay, two, two favors. First, could you stop and go to wherever you're listening and give the Evolving Together podcast a five star review? That would mean so much. It helps the podcast move up in visibility
The other request that I have, please, please, please, is
could you share this podcast with at least one person that you think needs to hear this information? Thank you so much.
Heidi (11:01)
I was wondering if you came from a big family.
Gabby (11:03)
Well, it's five of us. And unfortunately, I've experienced a lot of death. My brother and my sister passed away, so it's only three of us left. ⁓ plus my my stepsister, which she hates I say stepsister, but my sister. ⁓ but it's is not many of us left. And at my age, who loses two siblings? You know, already. ⁓ so that's a lot, but ⁓ my sister kept having kids.
Heidi (11:17)
Yeah.
I know that's a lot, yeah.
Gabby (11:32)
And she was always wanting my mom to babysit. And I was so frustrated. I was like, my gosh, why do you keep at? And she only had three. It wasn't like she had six or nine. But she had them back to back to back, felt like. And she never had them. And so I was just like, ⁓ my gosh, these kids are terrible. Like it was, I was so bad. Like
Heidi (11:47)
I was gonna say how many kids did she have?
Gabby (12:01)
She would ask me to watch the kids and I say, okay, I could take one, and mom and daddy could take two. And so I took the one, and then I forgot he was asleep. And I forgot he was in the other room and I left the house. He was like an infant. So no, I'm just the worst. I went to my mom's house, which was like right around the corner. ⁓ I said, Where's the baby? And I said,
Heidi (12:06)
Mm-hmm.
I did I did the
Gabby (12:28)
I'm so used to not having kids No, I was not a good aunt. I was not.
Heidi (12:32)
God. I did that with my youngest.
I actually left my youngest at the house one time because he was so quiet. He was the easiest of the three. I have three, you know, and he was so easy going, super chill. And I was backing out of the driveway and I'm starting to go down the road. I'm like, I feel like I'm forgetting something. And he was in the pack and play in the house, happy as can be. I of course I turned right around and went back and got him, but I was like, he was so quiet and so he chill. Like he just low maintenance baby. And so, but
Gabby (12:53)
Right.
So I'm not alone. My nephew was asleep and he when I went to the house to get him, he was still asleep.
Heidi (13:13)
I mean that's like for real. And and if you're not used to that, you know, it was your sister older or were you younger? Okay.
Gabby (13:14)
No. She well, she was. That's the one that passed away ⁓
from from appendix cancer. ⁓ which is weird because we don't even need our appendix, but she is the one that passed away in twenty eighteen. So ⁓
Heidi (13:25)
Really?
That's a that's
such a unusual cancer. I had never even heard of it until you told me.
Gabby (13:36)
It was. It was so scary
for me.
My brother died from stomach cancer,
I mean who loses two siblings?
Heidi (13:44)
No. So uncommon.
I mean that is yeah, when you told me that, I was like, my god, that's like a that's an exponential loss.
Gabby (13:54)
like my brother,
my brother lived a rough life. He was he was a drug addict and and he lived on the streets, you know, and he he was a street thug And not nothing that we come from middle class. I always say I'm not the typical black person and and people hate that I say that.
Heidi (14:01)
Mm.
Gabby (14:12)
I grew up like the Huxtables I didn't have mayonnaise and syrup sandwiches. we had encyclopedias in our home. We had the first thesaurus We had, listen, we had a we have a word processor. We always had my my dad was a crane operator. And crane operators make a lot of money. ⁓ and he was one of the best crane operators in New Orleans, and so he made a lot of money. And
Heidi (14:18)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Gabby (14:40)
We live in New Orleans East and New Orleans East was one of the first emerging middle class and upper class black cities in New Orleans of black neighborhoods in New Orleans. And that's where we lived. so I I don't have a a a story of struggle. You know, I had both parents in the home. ⁓ my parents were married almost 50 years. ⁓ we were middle class. ⁓
Heidi (15:01)
Mm.
Gabby (15:08)
I don't understand the struggle. They come from a single parent home or you know the parents, you know, were struggling and that kind of thing. That's not my story. I was the Huxtables ⁓ so you know, I mean, it it life was different for me, ⁓ thankfully, to my parents.
Heidi (15:11)
Thankfully. I mean, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Gabby (15:36)
And I I try to provide the same lifestyle for my sons. ⁓ and that's why I stayed as long as I stayed in in a marriage. ⁓ as long as I stayed to give my sons that same experience that I had of a two parent household. Yes, ma'am.
Heidi (15:40)
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I definitely wanna talk about that because the the things
that we do, you know, t for our kids is really, you know, I mean as a parent we do almost everything for the kids, honestly. There there was something that, you know, we we've talked about a little bit before, but I wanna know like how has it changed for you as a black mom with black sons specifically and protecting them
Gabby (16:04)
Absolutely.
Heidi (16:19)
they're adults now. I mean, I I think that it never crossed my mind the difference between raising, say, white boys and black boys until I had a conversation with one of my friends who has black sons and it was around the time of COVID and the
Gabby (16:37)
Right. Black Lives
Heidi (16:39)
there's a whole bunch of stuff going on all at once. And I keep wanting to say Frank Lloyd, right? But that's that's the architect. I'm like, George Floyd, yes, yes. yeah, The the the brain again. and I was reading this this article that someone had written and she said, you know, at what point does my my little boy, my little he's black, my black son become a threat?
Gabby (16:47)
George Floyd. I know you're talking about George Floyd.
Heidi (17:04)
to society. And i and the way she wrote it, I had never even thought of it as because I don't have that perspective. And no
Gabby (17:04)
Mm.
Right.
No, absolutely not. You're not thinking about that. That's not on the
forefront or in the back of your mind whatsoever.
Heidi (17:19)
But as I would imagine, my mom always taught me, like, you know, put yourself in someone else's shoes. I remember that from the time I was little, little, little. But I cannot imagine that putting myself in your shoes, like that's gotta be at the forefront of almost every type every parenting decision you make, is it? Was it still? I mean
Gabby (17:24)
Right.
It still
is. Absolutely. My kids don't leave the house and I'm not worried about them being pulled over in a police interaction. ⁓ it's unfortunate, but I don't know if you had the same conversation with your kids as white males versus my sons as black males about what to do when you get pulled over. Keep your hands on the wheel. Don't be argumentative. Take the damn ticket. You know, ⁓ we'll we'll discuss it later.
Heidi (18:04)
Mm.
Gabby (18:10)
⁓ those type of things to keep them safe, you know, and worried about being killed. Have you have you had that conversation with your sons?
Heidi (18:13)
yeah. I've
Nope. I never had to. It never it but we have had the conversation about how their friends have had the conversation with their mom and dads. Because that was mhm. No, because th my boys, you know, they have they have friends from all backgrounds, all ethnicities. I I
Gabby (18:29)
Absolutely. Thank you. No, no, go ahead.
Yes, your your kids are well
Heidi (18:43)
I mean I'm not saying like, they got tons of black friends, but they have black friends, you know. And they've had the conversation with some of them, the ones that they're closer to and stay close to and and and that is always like a fear. And and I remember the first time it came up was when I think my oldest was in college.
Well, she shared a story with me about one of her friends who had gotten pulled over at out outside Mississippi State. He was a young black man and how he was just harassed. And she it it it upset her so much. She's like, I just can't I just can't believe that. I just can't believe that that w that's happening in this day and age. And I was like, Yeah, you know, and that's just something that like as a parent, I just I don't even I
Gabby (19:23)
Right.
Heidi (19:32)
All I can do is hold space for that 'cause I don't I don't understand that fear. Thank God I don't. But but I think as they get older then too, they're really out of your say control. But that's that's the truth. I mean, we we control where they go and and who they talk to as much well, we try to we try to. I realize later that after looking through some ⁓ I found an old journal of my son's and
Gabby (19:37)
Right. Right.
Right.
Right, right.
Heidi (20:00)
I didn't read all of it, but I didn't know it was his journal. I thought it was a school binder thing and I was I started leafing through and I was like, he did what? What? I'm glad I d glad I didn't know then. But but now Yeah, yeah. ⁓ I would have been, ⁓ he would have not left the house. I'm like, you almost got what? Caught? Arrested? What? No, I don't know. I I don't remember the details of it. I just was like, I don't think I wanna know that.
Gabby (20:05)
Right.
Right.
He will be punished to this day.
Right, right.
Right.
Heidi (20:28)
Thank God he's okay. And that was years ago. But I think as they get older then too, it's like I know that fear probably just doesn't ever go away.
Gabby (20:38)
It doesn't and actually it heightens. ⁓ because coming from a white male or white man to a little back black boy, they're not threatening. But a black young man to a white male, older male, it becomes more threatening.
Heidi (20:43)
⁓
Mm.
Gabby (21:06)
They
become more threatened by them, their height, their weight, their size, and they're not a little kid. Because who's threatened by a little kid? You could bully. So as they become older, as they become taller, as they become men, you notice that white men are more threatened by them, which makes your senses as a mother heighten. ⁓ and just make sure that the outcome is always just.
Heidi (21:13)
Right. Yeah. Yeah.
Mm.
Gabby (21:35)
I just tell them keep your hands on the wheel, don't touch nothing, do what you're told, you can always fight the ticket in court. You know, just just make it home. And it's unfortunate that that I have to have these conversations with my black sons that you're not having with your sons who are o almost the same age as mine.
Heidi (21:43)
Right.
Yeah, they are. They're very close in age, yeah. And they even went to the same school. I mean, they went to same high school. Yeah. Mhm.
Gabby (21:56)
Right.
Went to the same school, same thing. Same almost experiences. They your kids
grew up middle class, not without. They weren't poor. You know, but it's it's just a different conversation that has to be had. ⁓ and and my senses are actually heightened now because they're older versus when they were younger. You know, when they were younger they weren't such a threat to white police officers. But now they're more of a threat.
Heidi (22:06)
Mm.
Yeah. I I hadn't even thought about them, you know, as they get older. Yeah, 'cause like when I see them I'm like, they're men. You know, they're men now, you know, which is and and Yeah. Yeah. And that's stressful. I mean, that's stressful for everyone. That those micro stresses, like that's like a and for your health and everything. I mean everybody's, you know, for their health but for yours as well. And that's something that, you know
Gabby (22:32)
Right. Right. And Gabe is six four, you know? So I mean, just his height alone is threatening, you know.
Right.
Heidi (22:55)
I wish I had a fix for it, you know. ⁓ that's like the that's the the whole thing. It's like it's it's I don't even know. Frustrating is not even the right word. It's
Gabby (22:58)
We are doing.
It I mean
no, it's not. I mean, but it's it's our reality unfortunately, and we have to live in it and and I have to make sure that my kids are safe, whether they come home, whether you know that they're not ⁓ being gunned down by police. You know, I mean it it's not that I raised bad kids, they come from a middle class background, they come from good schools, they come but you never know how some sort situations can turn out. I mean it can come all the way left.
Heidi (23:36)
Yeah.
Gabby (23:38)
⁓ so I just tried to teach them that hey, don't be aggressive. We can always fight it later. Don't always
Heidi (23:46)
That's true.
Yeah. Wow. Well, it's I have so much respect for you because your boys are amazing and I mean you're just like they really are. ⁓ thanks. But ⁓ we're gonna continue the
Gabby (23:57)
Well thank you. So are yours. ⁓
Heidi (24:04)
ongoing conversation because sometimes I'm just like I do not know what I I don't know what I should be doing right now.
you know, they come home and they're trying to figure out their lives and like I mean,
am I supposed to encourage? Am I enabling? Am I you know, I go through these conversations with my friend Susan and it's like 'cause her kids are about the same age and it's just kinda like, ⁓
Gabby (24:17)
No.
Heidi (24:28)
Do I throw my hands up and just say, You figure it out? Or am I giving too much money when they need a loan? Or am I should I just tell Go figure it out yourself? I don't know.
Gabby (24:37)
Right,
right, right.
Heidi (24:38)
You know?
It's so hard. It's it's just I don't know. There's no manual. But that's why I wanted to do this because we can have these conversations in the podcasts and stuff like that. So ⁓ but thank you so much for for the honesty because I think that's that's what this is all about and being able able to have these these really intentional conversations. So Gabby's information if you want to get in touch with Gabby or you need some pralines a sugar fix, Sugar Fix Pralines
Gabby (24:56)
Mm-hmm.
Yes, ma'am.
Heidi (25:04)
They are the
best pralines. They are authentic New Orleans pralines from a family recipe that I I I bought a bunch at the holidays and I can't eat dairy, so I can't eat them. But my family can. And let me tell you something. They were like, they got to sample all of the varieties and they were s they their eyes were like, Boo, these are good. I actually had them way back when you first started when I when I was still eating dairy and
Gabby (25:11)
Yeah.
I think I gave
him as a teacher's gift or something.
Heidi (25:32)
You did. You gave those a and and some bottles of liquor.
Gabby (25:35)
A wine
you could pick beer, wine, or hard liquor.
Heidi (25:40)
That that was the best teacher
gift I've ever received. She like she's like, she brings in these little bags and in there is some pralines and then you could pick a little wine. There was a margarita, a wine, and a and a beer. And I thought, what? This is who is this woman? I I love this woman. I need to know her. She has got to be my friend.
Gabby (25:47)
Yeah.
And the beer.
This my people. This my people.
Yeah.
Heidi (26:09)
It was so ballsy too. I mean you walked into the school with it. I was like, what are they gonna do to you? I don't know, but what are they gonna do to you? You're you're a you're not only a parent, but you are an involved parent. And so what are the
Gabby (26:10)
Yeah.
I don't know what the alcohol policy was back then. Hey, but hey.
Right, I think I was a
PCA president at that time.
Heidi (26:27)
What are they gonna do? Kick you out? I don't think so. No, that was that was that's right. And we didn't pop it open at work, even though we wanted to.
Gabby (26:29)
Right, right. It was the end of the year. I mean I waited 'til it's like the end of the year. It wasn't like in the middle of the year.
No. No. I I asked
I wouldn't go around and said, what you drink? And they said, I drink, you know, ultra. I drink margarita. And they didn't know have no idea why. And clue hint, good ⁓ teachers appreciation gifts is liquor.
Heidi (26:43)
Good.
That was hilarious. I was the margarita girl. Nope. Yep.
Hell yeah, that
was great. I'm telling you, I got the margarita, I still remember.
Gabby (27:02)
pralines and liquor yes ma'am.
Heidi (27:02)
That's right. The best.
These ⁓ yeah, totally. All right. Well thank you so much, Gabby. We'll be talking to you really soon in the next Gabbing with Gabby. I love it. So all right, talk soon.
Gabby (27:12)
Yes, ma'am. Okay. ⁓
Heidi (27:19)
Thank you so much for listening to that conversation with me and Gabby. We had so much fun recording that if you couldn't tell. But there is more to our conversation in the top tier level of Patreon.
where we talk about marriage and how relationships change over time and how our needs change over time, specifically in midlife, consider becoming a top-tier patron so you have access to that conversation. In the meantime, I want to say thank you to the patrons who joined the Evolving Together Patreon. And that's Kaia zbb Niki, Michael, and Julia.
thank you so much for your support. It means so much to us to keep this podcast going and knowing that we are being heard and loved. It's wonderful. And as far as Apple subscribers go, I'm so sorry, but I cannot see who joins. So I give my thanks to you as well.
Most of you are listening to this podcast, but if you're watching, you might notice that the lighting is a little bit off, my apologies. I will be fixing that soon when I get into the Airstream Studio. Hopefully very soon. See you in the next episode.
Heidi (28:30)
and now for the disclaimer. This podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is not intended as professional advice. The views expressed are our own and should not be taken as medical, legal, or financial guidance. always consult a qualified professional regarding your specific situation.
By listening you agree that we are not liable for any actions taken based on this content.