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Diagnosed with Complex Trauma and a Dissociative Disorder, Emma and her system share what they learn along the way about complex trauma, dissociation (CPTSD, OSDD, DID, Dissociative Identity Disorder (Multiple Personality), etc.), and mental health. Educational, supportive, inclusive, and inspiring, System Speak documents her healing journey through the best and worst of life in recovery through insights, conversations, and collaborations.
Over:
Speaker 2:Welcome to the System Speak Podcast, a podcast about Dissociative Identity Disorder. If you are new to the podcast, we recommend starting at the beginning episodes and listen in order to hear our story and what we have learned through this endeavor. Current episodes may be more applicable to long time listeners and are likely to contain more advanced topics, emotional or other triggering content, and or reference earlier episodes that provide more context to what
Speaker 3:we are currently learning and experiencing. As always, please care
Speaker 2:for yourself during and after listening to the podcast. Thank you.
Speaker 1:I am in Oklahoma at The Gathering Place in Tulsa, the giant playground we've talked about lots of times on the podcast. So you may hear sounds in the background or kids, or if they find us hiding in the shade, they may come interrupt us and talk to us, which is fine and good and right. Because parenting is more important than podcasting. But I couldn't be here and not podcast it feels like tradition. We used to come here after therapy with our first therapist if you remember that and we would talk about therapy Mary, that's okay for climbing.
Speaker 1:And then one time we went on a road trip with Jules. I don't know why we came here without the kids. That doesn't make sense other than they were not gonna be with us for the whole day.
Speaker 4:And so I think that's why. But
Speaker 1:it's definitely a special place locally and certainly a tradition for us to come as a family. It's free to come here that also helps. And it was super fun. And so coming back here today feels like coming full circle. We came this particular weekend not just because everyone finally got out of school for the summer but because it's Juneteenth which matters to our family and matters to our children and is a big deal with BIPOC especially locally because two miles from here is the Greenwood District which is the site of where the Tulsa race riots were in 1921 which was truly awful an entire black town just demolished and devastated and people killed because of racism, false accusations, and colonialism wanting to steal that wealth.
Speaker 1:It's a part of the story in our town here in Tulsa and to a part of our story in our family.
Speaker 2:Is there enough shade to share? I was podcasting
Speaker 5:The rocking chairs were full of teenage cheerleaders. Awkward. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Felt strange to be here and not podcast.
Speaker 5:Old habits die hard.
Speaker 1:It's been a long time since you were on the podcast. Welcome back. Well, you. I was just trying to explain about the race riots.
Speaker 4:Oh, okay.
Speaker 1:So it's been a fun podcast. No. Was just giving a brief overview of like why it feels particularly significant that we're here in Tulsa for Juneteenth and staying literally in the Greenwood District
Speaker 5:in this particular of our American history
Speaker 1:right while real life overlapping like I was thinking last night I was talking to Mary because last night, the kids wanted to play Marco Polo in the pool when a group of BIPOC kids came and joined them in the pool. And Mary was like, really? Really? We're in Greenwood District by the race riots in June on Juneteenth weekend and we're going to play white explorer colonializes the children by chasing down the black kids. I was like wow okay okay how would you like to adapt this?
Speaker 5:That's my girl.
Speaker 1:I mean she's not wrong.
Speaker 5:No? That's funny I had never thought of any symbolic meaning to the game other than just the name. I had never thought about what it might be
Speaker 4:depicting. Always
Speaker 2:learning
Speaker 5:Gen X privilege, I guess. Didn't have to think about that when I was a kid.
Speaker 1:Yeah. White privilege.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 1:All the things. Do you need to stop this? I can totally stop. I didn't even have a specific thing. I was just floating.
Speaker 5:No, I was just coming over because I remembered your guidance that if I needed my way back to the building just pick a path and stay on it and you'd get there eventually. Picked a spiral path.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry that's so classic how churchy of you that's very shiny I
Speaker 5:was like this is not going where I want. Oh no
Speaker 1:well done are you trying to get back to air conditioning?
Speaker 5:I was thinking of it.
Speaker 1:It's that way when you're ready.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Was But you're totally okay. What since you're here and we can stop if you want because I'm not trying to make it weird and I didn't this was not at all planned or intended. But, like, what was this weekend like for you?
Speaker 5:It's been really good. I I'm always amazed to look at the kids and see how grown up they've become. Like, all of them are more grown and mature than they were last time we were all together. And it's it's delightful to see them turning into people and see their little brains grow.
Speaker 1:I
Speaker 5:love that even though we are, you know, split in two places that we're still very much a family and a unit together.
Speaker 1:We were just this morning explaining to them about what family reunions are because your family kind of gathers naturally through churches or events and my family does not
Speaker 5:yeah
Speaker 1:and they're becoming old enough that we were like this is literally your last summer as kids all of us together because the triplets are going to be turning 18
Speaker 5:yeah
Speaker 1:and so hey guys Oh my goodness. So talking to the kids about like this is their last summer, all of them still being kids and how in the next few years when we gather there may be boyfriends or girlfriends or partners and after that we'll come children and so when we gather for like a family reunion kind of experience, it won't be the same just because it'll be more people and we'll be getting to know each other and like they date who they want to date, but we will all as a family be getting to know them and things like that. Can you believe we've made it to that any of them being 18 almost?
Speaker 5:It's pretty amazing. I'm worn out. Yeah.
Speaker 1:You and I were talking privately yesterday. This is so funny because I really did not plan this. So I'm just making this up and we can stop if you want. But we were talking yesterday about the pandemic and how hard that was. And like, I don't know that we could have done anything differently.
Speaker 1:We had to stay in quarantine that long for our youngest, and I know we can't change that. You really did need to go tend to your parents. They were really struggling your mom was having some health issues and you've needed to be there. Yeah and we wouldn't change that and also how. Like the years of hard that we had and then the pandemic hitting it wasn't just quarantine, but the loss of support we experienced because of quarantine like all the physical therapies and all the extra support or different things that were sort of built into being able to raise this many kids.
Speaker 1:With those issues specifically, we lost all that. Like, just overnight, it was all gone.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And, like, it broke us somehow.
Speaker 6:And
Speaker 1:that recovery has been hard.
Speaker 5:Yeah. I didn't smoke.
Speaker 1:So it feels significant to get to that place, I guess. Did you find it?
Speaker 5:Yeah. Was it amazing?
Speaker 1:Do you want
Speaker 5:to send them my water?
Speaker 1:Thank you. You're welcome.
Speaker 5:Someone's gonna need to stop in five minutes. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Mom, stop. Wait.
Speaker 5:This thing made me had to go to the bathroom, like, three times in a row.
Speaker 4:Straight. Like I get out but then I get out of the bathroom and be like, need go in again. Went in, got out, went in again. Yeah. My mom should be used
Speaker 6:to it.
Speaker 5:I have one child who's trying to stay hydrated. I keep thinking the story you shared about him not giving the older two high fives yesterday. And I was trying to figure out like I wouldn't say that he's not a warm person I think most people would find him to be pretty warm he's
Speaker 4:very charming
Speaker 5:he is I think he's just awkward in ways people people don't think about him.
Speaker 4:Okay. We're gonna find it.
Speaker 1:I feel like we had so many crises happening. We didn't realize how many folks in our family were on the spectrum in some kind of
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Different way. And when we had two that were super extreme stereotypical, ironically, that it was so loud, we didn't notice other things happening. So I think that made it tricksy too.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Not that there's anything wrong with that or any shame in that. But
Speaker 5:No. Just different processing, understanding how people function the way they do. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like, they are so significantly noticing that and being hurt by that. And also, dude, I told them last night, like, after everybody came back to our room, I told them because they were like, oh, that was fun, except he was on his phone. So we thought we were going there to talk, but he didn't want to talk. He wanted to be on his phone. And so they brought that back up about them not giving high fives.
Speaker 1:And I was like, well, also, you just walked up to him and put your hand in his face. So I think he was as, like, intrusive. Like, looking at what is prepared
Speaker 5:for what that interaction was going to be.
Speaker 1:Right. Right. And, like, noticing focusing on what our own roles are in things, Not just, they're doing
Speaker 4:it wrong.
Speaker 1:They're doing it wrong.
Speaker 5:And there's some things that were obvious issues when they were younger that in some ways have masked more now that they're older and have So like when Kirk was little, he had that terrible stammer. It could be really irritating at times. Where if you wanted like a drink of water, he'd be like, I want, I want, I want, I want, want, and like he could stay stuck on that groove for a while. He still struggles to pull up words. And he doesn't stammer like he did, but he'll freeze in mid sentence and he'll have these other things that he has grown enough and people around him are now his age group is now adaptive enough that that people will like feed him the word he needs or like it it works out more smoothly so it's not as obvious as it was when he was a child but the problem is still there like there's still some sort of damage in his language processing and I think there are other things like that that he's learned the social skills to pass.
Speaker 5:I guess particularly with siblings who also struggle with social skills that the things he tries to do might not necessarily click with him.
Speaker 4:I also
Speaker 1:think we have a couple who are so extroverted and so loud
Speaker 5:Yes.
Speaker 1:That those who take longer to find their words or are not as verbal just learn to be quiet, that the pressure would be off if they could just avoid it, and the others filled in the gaps. So one thing that's been good about having them apart is literally making sure their voices are heard, giving them space to exist and develop on their own.
Speaker 5:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:I think that's been a benefit.
Speaker 5:I, for some reason, I had not thought about that specifically of the difference between the two and the one triplets being more extroverted versus more introverted.
Speaker 1:It's tricky because in a shiny, happy way, I'm really good at guilt tripping, right? And obviously, there are things like I left or I signed the divorce papers or things like that that are like, okay, no, that's me. But also I'm like, if I had done this or if I should have done this. And my therapist is like, shoulds if you turn your shoulds to a could,
Speaker 5:I could have
Speaker 1:done this. It's still possible, then you can feel guilty about it and learn from it. Mhmm. But if you really could not, then you know the should is
Speaker 5:false. Interesting.
Speaker 1:And the kids legitimately had different issues, safety issues, developmental issues, different things where it literally was not safe for them or not possible for them to all do this adolescent period together in one unit, even though it's ideal in a shiny, happy way. Yeah. And so releasing myself from some of that that I didn't just, like, destroy the family in that way. And I think my trauma from that comes from, like, being responsible to save my family as a child. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Which never was my job.
Speaker 5:No, it wasn't.
Speaker 1:So seeing I have to really look, I've looked really hard in therapy for moments like that of like, no, this is one of the benefits that has been good. That's why I noticed that.
Speaker 5:That's good. It's a good observation.
Speaker 1:Anything that you want to say about therapy? Your stuff, not in a too private way, but you've grown so much and learned so much.
Speaker 5:Yeah. I've been having some good progress in therapy. I feel like one big push over the last year has been working on codependency and trying to see myself as someone who is able to be loved or ready to be loved even if I'm not getting like direct validation from people all the time. It's it's always been the challenge with with the writing that I do. A musical is never really complete until it's front of an audience.
Speaker 5:Right? I can write a script, but that doesn't really convey the experience I'm trying to create. And so when you don't have productions, like, it it feels like, what what is the point of what I'm doing? Because there's nobody there to finish the process. And so we've talked a lot about, like, how do I validate my work for myself even if there isn't an audience right now?
Speaker 5:Yeah. I've done a lot of a lot of things like that.
Speaker 1:I think there's different space, more space for your own needs and preferences and opinions.
Speaker 5:I think I am a natural fawner and so I am working on having the courage to ask for what I need or to disagree when I have a disagreement. I am naturally accommodating, which I find to be something I value, but accommodation does not have to mean that I can't disagree with someone. I don't have to do all the work of disagreeing and discussing inside my own head and then just follow along. And sometimes that's hard and very unpleasant, but it feels like a muscle that I need to
Speaker 4:develop. I
Speaker 1:one thing we've talked about a lot is me learning to discern the difference between you growing in that way and me feeling activated by, like, abandonment or things where in the past you were so accommodating that I initiated a lot of things or most things, which was my own part of codependency, of doing too much in some ways, but not realizing that that's not giving you a chance or a turn, that that's healthy, that you need that. And then that is, I think, led to sometimes some things being harder for you because you hadn't had a chance yet. Like, I don't know, certain activities with the kids or something being more overwhelming just because you had less practice. In the way it was also overwhelming for me, but before, because I had done it more times. Helpful really was rescuing and depriving you even of some of those muscles that you needed.
Speaker 1:But then also when you started initiating, I would be like, I'm really okay with disagreement or differences of opinions. We can talk through that. But I feel abandoned when I'm not included in the process as opposed to you're just doing your thing here in Oklahoma, and that's totally okay. And that took some adjustment for me.
Speaker 5:It's a new a new generation of adventures in our in our relationship. I remember our little twin stroller. Yeah. Our giant twin stroller.
Speaker 1:Do you remember when we had a twin stroller with the extra seat just so we could fit three kids on it?
Speaker 5:I've forgotten the extra seat. I just remember pushing it. I don't which one of us was pushing it through the movie theater and a wheel popped off and the whole thing just sort of collapsed.
Speaker 1:That was in Branson at
Speaker 7:that
Speaker 4:special theater.
Speaker 1:What's up, mom? Hi,
Speaker 4:baby. Hi.
Speaker 5:Mac and cheese.
Speaker 4:I'm going over there.
Speaker 1:Are you excited? Are you having fun?
Speaker 4:Me and a couple other kids decided to all work together on each floor of the of the tower over there to use the water pump and heat water as far as we can to the Oh, cool. And it got pretty high up, and it became a little shallow. I kept coming away too hard, so the water kept missing the tubes.
Speaker 5:Curious how Alex is gonna overcome the rest of this. Oh, okay.
Speaker 4:I'm going for the
Speaker 5:I would have bet Manny he was gonna climb over those fences.
Speaker 1:Bet did already. So they the word may have spread through the gossip mill that mom is on it. Stay on the path. Stop climbing over the fences.
Speaker 5:I can't believe it's only 10:40. It feels like we've been in the park for hours so far.
Speaker 1:Right. I'm sorry. It's so hot. We got off the plane and it was like everybody went, Oklahoma. Like, forgot how
Speaker 5:The humidity.
Speaker 1:Sticky the air It
Speaker 5:was into a dog's mouth.
Speaker 1:Kyrie was like, I can't breathe.
Speaker 5:Yeah. Is that a lily?
Speaker 4:That's so pretty.
Speaker 5:It's a pretty color.
Speaker 4:Thank you, mom.
Speaker 5:Yeah, it's pretty warm, Do you need some more water? There you are.
Speaker 1:Having fun? Yeah. Why don't you help her find some water bits to cool off some?
Speaker 7:Okay. Come on.
Speaker 1:Go get a little wet. It'll cool you off.
Speaker 5:If there's like a splash paddy kind of thing?
Speaker 4:Yeah. You
Speaker 1:can decide when you get there. If it looks like something you don't wanna do, you don't have to. But it might cool you all off.
Speaker 4:And then I'm coming back to you. We'll come. Okay.
Speaker 1:You know what? Now they have learned this is where I am, which means I will need to stay here. They will come here, and then we could leave early.
Speaker 5:Oh, there you go. Once they've all complained about the heat then you're like okay
Speaker 1:wish granted we're here
Speaker 5:this was me a while ago like oh am I going somewhere he's just gonna go down. He gave up
Speaker 1:they need that like a parental exit We talked with the kids more about divorce yesterday that was epic. With talking to them and trying to reassure them this was not about like a conflict thing or something unsafe. One thing I really appreciated in the conversation that you added was about the difference between your experience of my gayness and my experience of shining happy do you can you rephrase that to say that here?
Speaker 5:Just that from my perspective I never actually had an issue with Emily's gayness
Speaker 1:Like we talked about it in the beginning before we were Yeah and
Speaker 5:like I just it was just part of the relationship. I loved her as she was as she is but from her perspective she was raised to think that if she could marry a good man then it would cure her gayness which is not okay at all.
Speaker 1:That conclusion therapy concept.
Speaker 5:So like when you first introduced me to the term mixed marriage I was like yeah that's totally us isn't it? We're a mixed marriage.
Speaker 4:Mixed orientation.
Speaker 5:But it never occurred to me that it would mean you could fix one of them. Like, oh, no. No. That's that's not what's what's supposed to happen. So
Speaker 1:I think it's been brutally hard and brutally tragic because maybe it's a place that touches anger at me, not not at you, but maybe the first time I was able to feel or at least recognize that I feel any anger about my trauma, which I don't know why that's what did it. Maybe because we worked so hard, we have worked so hard, are working so hard to create something so good and different than my own childhood, like with our family.
Speaker 5:And
Speaker 1:but the having that be the context makes it, like, the double bind of there's no way to do that without betraying myself from that and requires me to step out for the healing of that and I think the betrayal of that that I experienced the betrayal of that that you experienced really is its own betrayal trauma.
Speaker 4:Yeah. Hey, baby. Did you go off any? Yeah. Does that feel better?
Speaker 4:I
Speaker 5:have one more lyric thing I need to do for David,
Speaker 1:and maybe it's so sorry.
Speaker 5:No. No. No. I was just gonna say, so I'm probably gonna go over to
Speaker 7:the air conditioned spot.
Speaker 4:Okay. One two. It
Speaker 5:was good talking with you, though.
Speaker 1:Oh, thanks for staying. You walked into that. I got a list. Well,
Speaker 5:that's a first time to happen. It's never happened before. Bye.
Speaker 4:That
Speaker 1:was kind of you to stay and participate.
Speaker 4:I'm gonna stay here. Alex is
Speaker 1:right there. Do we need to carve out time today for you, like, where you didn't have to come here? Or, I mean, you're here now. But Where you have some time, like, while they swim or something?
Speaker 5:I might. I might do that.
Speaker 1:If you need?
Speaker 5:Yeah. Okay.
Speaker 1:Okay. I'm sorry for not understanding that.
Speaker 5:No. I'm not in any crisis. I miss okay. I even got up and did some writing this morning before breakfast.
Speaker 1:You're also setting such lovely boundaries. I'm gonna go now.
Speaker 5:Thanks. I'm trying. Alright. I'll talk to you later. Bye.
Speaker 5:This is the right way. Right?
Speaker 1:Yes. I tried every single time. Hey. Come here.
Speaker 4:I tried every time to get on the zipline. I went to the front of the line. I went to the back of the line. No matter how many times I got to it, I waited until one. I so then I moved over there, and I can never just get on the slide forever, so I give up.
Speaker 4:So I've given up on trying to get on anything.
Speaker 1:Papa and I were recording on the podcast. Is there anything you wanna say about this weekend? Yeah. It's hot. It is hot.
Speaker 4:I'm so excited to get back into a car with an AC.
Speaker 1:What has it been like for you to see papa and the other kids?
Speaker 4:It was bizarre trying to have to act like, I have a family that I haven't seen in a whole year. It's hard.
Speaker 1:It's an adjustment. Autism makes that hard too. So it's like double layers, legit changes and also struggling with changes. Double whammy. What's been good?
Speaker 1:What's helping?
Speaker 4:Places that I can go to. I mean, I can do with, not alone. So
Speaker 1:Yeah?
Speaker 4:Sweating like crazy, and I don't wanna get another sunburn. So We're gonna leaves close to my chest.
Speaker 1:Yeah. We're gonna leave early. So go find some water to cool off in one of the water features or do whatever you wanna do here at the end because we're gonna leave early.
Speaker 4:Oh, I'm done. I'm done. I already got water from the water fountain
Speaker 1:back there. Then go meet papa at the air conditioning. Okay.
Speaker 5:Okay. Alright.
Speaker 1:Kurt, papa has your water and the air conditioning. You can go ahead and go if you're done. Hey, you. Come here.
Speaker 6:Is it this way?
Speaker 1:Down that path is the right direction. Hi. Hi. Papa and I were recording a podcast a little bit.
Speaker 6:I thought so. But is
Speaker 1:there anything you wanna say about what it's been like so far being with Papa and the kids?
Speaker 6:Oh, it's just been fun. It was better than I was expecting it to be. Yes, at times, it's like on kayaking sometimes I just wanna hide in one specific place in the corner. But You mean on the
Speaker 1:playground or at the hotel?
Speaker 6:A little bit of both. And
Speaker 5:I'm sorry.
Speaker 6:Other times, I feel like maybe it's fine for the last year of us all being one big happy family for the kids. Next year will be one big happy family full of mostly adults. How does that feel about to be turning an adult next year? I'm excited. Yeah?
Speaker 6:I mean, counting down the day, thirty three years. Three hundred and fifty
Speaker 4:five more days ish. It will take a few days a week.
Speaker 6:I'll also be in school though when I'm 18. But, like, I'm a lot older and I guess more mature than most of the kids my age which
Speaker 4:I guess the teachers take
Speaker 6:that as a blessing. And I don't know how, but like at school, I'm always facing like the quiet classes, like the best classes or like the kids the classes where the kids are the
Speaker 4:most well behaved. I don't know if
Speaker 6:my if that's on purpose or an accident, it just happened.
Speaker 1:Well, sometimes a little of both. Like, you work really hard, doing your best, and then also sometimes those of us with trauma kind of over function.
Speaker 6:Since you've guided all my work in January that I wouldn't I did, but it's definitely out a little too much sometimes.
Speaker 1:Right. And also it worked to your advantage because you've crossed all
Speaker 6:your classes. And I got my guidance from f to a b in a week. And you didn't have
Speaker 1:to do summer school for the first time ever. High five. High five. Don't go over the fence.
Speaker 6:Don't go over the fence.
Speaker 1:Oops. Hold my hand because you're next. So anything you want to say about Juneteenth or Tulsa race riots? Because that's where we're staying. It's right there in Greenwood District.
Speaker 6:It's just fun to be around a whole bunch of people, like, rough my race and, like I know it's not allowed with all the people at the hotel, but but actually, I don't want to sign all over me. You you you. Oh, I'm gonna have to go take a shower mentally and emotionally and physically. Okay. What are we talking about again that I
Speaker 4:do with
Speaker 6:someone standing on me?
Speaker 1:The race riots on Juneteenth weekend. Alright.
Speaker 6:It's just extra fun because I'm actually in the place that I grew up, I guess. So I like know it better and like it's more familiar. I know some of the people I know, don't
Speaker 4:know everybody but when I
Speaker 6:go to Buttlesville I'll be
Speaker 4:like yeah I know you, remember your face, I don't
Speaker 6:know your name exactly but that's not my Papa. Some familiarity. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Okay. Are you ready to go to papa in the air conditioning? Yes. Okay. Go for
Speaker 6:it. Bye. Bye.
Speaker 1:Bye. We're recording about the weekend. Anything you wanna say? Lemonade.
Speaker 7:Okay. It's like.
Speaker 4:Interesting. It's a
Speaker 1:lot of adjusting. Are you hot and ready to go meet pop in the air conditioning? Yeah. Okay. So walk down that path, and you'll find the glass building.
Speaker 1:Are you ready, Amber Bear?
Speaker 5:Yeah. You
Speaker 1:can follow her down that path to the glass building. Alex, scoot over.
Speaker 7:So Hello.
Speaker 1:You're recording. That's nice. How's it been?
Speaker 5:What are you talking about? I don't know what you're
Speaker 1:Meeting papa and the other kids and reuniting for our family reunion weekend.
Speaker 7:It's been fine. It's been good. Thank
Speaker 1:you for that in-depth analysis. I'm tired. He's totally fine.
Speaker 7:I know what I am going to do, though. What? I'm going to go, and I'm pretty sure papa's either gonna do that too or sit in his room with air conditioning. But I plan on getting home, either swimming, then eating a good lunch, or eating a good lunch and then swimming.
Speaker 1:Everybody's ready to cool off.
Speaker 7:Oh, for sure. Amber's like, Amber was I don't know. She was like, oh, I can't wait to get out of here and go swim. I was like, I feel you. I really do.
Speaker 7:Even Curia started saying that too. And then she was like, oh, wait. Look. It's a pirate ship.
Speaker 4:There are other cars.
Speaker 7:We were so close. We almost made it out.
Speaker 4:And then
Speaker 7:she goes, it's a pirate ship, Alex.
Speaker 4:I was like, oh, Alright.
Speaker 1:You were being a good sibling. That was very kind of you.
Speaker 7:Uh-huh. Yeah. So it was good.
Speaker 1:Has it been okay adjusting Yeah. To the different family dynamics smoother than you expected?
Speaker 7:Much smoother than I expected. A lot of the rules that usually are in place are not in place anymore.
Speaker 1:I think that papa's trying in his own way even though it's still gonna be different just because we're different people. Sure. Are you seeing evidence of that?
Speaker 7:Yeah. I
Speaker 1:am. A little more flexibility?
Speaker 7:Yes. Very.
Speaker 4:Hey. Hold Anything you wanna tell them
Speaker 1:about the gathering place before we go?
Speaker 4:It's hot. Yeah. Everything
Speaker 7:is hot. Like, even the gathering place itself is hot.
Speaker 1:Is almost a 100 degrees, and it is in sticky, sticky heat where the humidity is so high, you can't even sweat because your sweat just stays on your body. Okay. Other places, it's like a drier heat, and so when you sweat, it evaporates and cools you off. But here in Oklahoma, it just stays.
Speaker 7:We're going.
Speaker 1:Ready to cool off? Yes. Okay. Head out.
Speaker 7:Thank you.
Speaker 1:Go down that way. You'll get to the glass Building.
Speaker 4:Alright. Thanks.
Speaker 1:Okay, that was not what I was expecting at all for everyone to just pop in a little bit or share things or even for Nathan to want to share and also trusting the process trusting the system that's how it worked out this has been our weekend we are gonna go swim and cool off they're getting ice cream and air conditioning right now and then we'll get our ubers back to the hotel and really take it easy this afternoon with swimming and some movies and then the festival tonight for Juneteenth and then tomorrow they will be going back to the grandparents house for this summer and will be missing them for the summer and also while they're away I have four books to finish articles submitted symposiums to prepare for and. Trainings I'm doing this fall that I can finish and edit and get ready. Can do writing in chunks when they're home, but I cannot do editing because an editing requires such intense focus. So I have to have everything ready and then spend the month that they're away just editing, editing, editing all the things that I can. And so it's been good to be back.
Speaker 1:Like our family looks so different and is so different in lots of ways not just because of divorce but lots of ways the divorce only makes things more congruent makes me more congruent with myself and we also I think the only thing that we've talked about is a family that no one mentioned because I didn't bring it up and because it's my piece so I don't think any of them brought it up just because it's not their piece but we have talked explicitly as a family that because of shiny, happy trauma and the church's exclusion of LGBT, that I am really just embracing my Jewish heritage because it's as close as I can be to who I already am and the faith I already have and continuing my study in that way. We've also talked about the politics of it and what it means when we see racism whether it is examples like slavery that we're celebrating the liberation of from Juneteenth or the changing shape of slavery as we see it continue in other forms and talking about that openly and explicitly with the kids or, the exploitation of migrant workers and what's happening with raids and politics and that and then also the targeting of Jewish people right now and the acts of violence that have happened recently.
Speaker 1:We've talked about that as a family and explicitly and how that is also anti semitism and racism and that just like we would not want the whole world to hate us because of who our president is, there's no reason to hate Jewish people because of the tanu because of those politics that we can disagree with those politics and some of the things happening in war in The Middle East that has been absolutely ongoing in different ways and is currently escalating with Iran as well and also that's different than a faith or a people or a person or an individual and that hate is never going to help stop war hate is never going to help rescue people hate always isolates and always traumatizes and so we've done a lot of talking about that and it's a lot of really heavy issues for a weekend where we're also balancing with a lot of play and nurture and care and cuddles and swimming and playing outside and all the things because it's real life and the world is simultaneously a beautiful place that we celebrate even as I learn more about what that means to me as an indigenous person and also is full of people who are not always safe with our planet or with its people.
Speaker 1:And so what does it mean to live at peace with one another, whether that is our family with, like, addressing bickering among siblings or whether we're talking about nationalities or ethnicities or countries or politics all the things what does it mean to be true to who we are regardless of what is happening around us and the vulnerability and courage that takes but I think that's something our family has always held as a high value and has always been important to us and just continues to be so I really appreciate everyone's patience and understanding and our own learning curve of these things and doing our best to not just raise these children you all have witnessed this over the years as listeners and participated as supporters and now more and more they're becoming their own people and so having these kinds of conversations and watching them navigate it for themselves and how things are going and How they influence each other and how they differ from each other and it's different than having little ones and saying this is the thing and how it is or being shiny happy about things. It's like okay. This is happening.
Speaker 1:What do we think and feel about it? Why is that what we think and feel? What does it look like about how other people think and feel? What do you think that means to them and then getting different perspectives from the different kids just in our own neutral family experiences as well as things in the world. It's kind of a big deal and takes a lot of practice I think, but.
Speaker 1:I think for me, tomorrow will be super emotional, letting them go and already seeing them sort of shift into that dynamic with their papa, with Nathan, and me pulling back. So we literally have this slow transition as they shift into his care and me pulling back more and more so that they can be safe with him, ready to be with him, know that I'm okay, they don't have to take care of me, they're not taking sides, nothing like that. And just this smooth transition of this is our family and our family is changing for all kinds of reasons and in really healthy ways too that it's not all bad or all hard. Some of it's just new and different and that's okay too. I'm thinking how different that is from my own experience of literally not having any parent to transition me into adulthood or to prepare me or to help me or support me and being so alone in that and trying to be so present with the kids even while they need us less and less It's a wild experience.
Speaker 1:I don't even know what to say
Speaker 4:about that. I
Speaker 1:feel like that would be a whole different episode, but that pausing today at the park in the heat of Oklahoma to, like, really get grounded and use the opportunity to get grounded this moment outside when I can so clearly feel my body because of the heat and because of the playing hard on the playground and all the things and letting littles out and feeling the balance of that after hard work all week right it's a good time to stop and check-in with you to share this as a podcast to feel connected so that I can do the rest of today really well so that I can do tomorrow really well because as the parent it is not about me it is about them and that's what matters most to me. So it really means a lot to have this as a safe space. And I think it's why we still do it all these years later. Thank you, really, for listening. I mean it.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for listening to us and for all of your support for the podcast, our books, and them being donated to survivors and the community. It means so much to us as we try to create something that's never been done before, not like this. Connection brings healing. One of the ways we practice this is in community together. The link for the community is in the show notes.
Speaker 2:We look forward to seeing you there while we practice caring for ourselves, caring for our family, and participating with those who also care for community. And remember, I'm just a human, not a therapist for the community, and not there for dating, and not there to be shiny happy. Less shiny, actually. I'm there to heal too. That's what peer support is all about, being human together.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, sometimes we'll see you there.