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This week in home building news! Catch up with Az and a colourful array of guests, to hear about who's killing it, who's innovating, and who's getting into strife in the world of new home construction.
Az (00:57)
Good morning and welcome to the Good Builder Podcast. My guest today is Mark Sutton, the new general manager of Goop Guys.
Az (01:05)
For those who don't know Goop Guys out there, I actually don't know where you've been because they're a great partner of ours at The Good Builder. And I've said this on a podcast before, and I'm not afraid to say it. I actually went out and did a bit of contracting with Goop Guys early on in the Good Builder to keep this thing running because I loved the brand so much and was even looking at buying a franchise. And I also said that on the podcast with Kirstee
Az (01:28)
The gentleman I have sitting here today has had a wealth of experience in the construction industry. He's worked with Wattyl as the business development GM across Australia and New Zealand. He grew a network of more than a hundred stores before that everhard indutries So he knows all about what peelable protection and coatings and things are all about. And right now he's just taken over a leadership role at Goop Guys, and we are so excited.
Az (01:56)
I had a quick chat with him behind the scenes before this podcast and I'm actually glad I did. I sat there and he taught me about, you know
Az (02:05)
how to build a business and the marketing around your franchisees and making them comfortable. And I thought I was a pretty good franchise marketer until I met this gentleman. so it is my pleasure to bring to the Good Builder podcast Mark Sutton from Goop Guys the New GM. How are you? Yeah good thanks Aaron. Thanks for having me on today. And really great to to come along and meet yourself. I know we've done a lot of work with you and yeah just I guess introduce myself as the as the new GM and all the exciting things we've got got coming.
Az (02:34)
up and and ahead of us. Yeah, well mate, it it seems really exciting. Like I thoroughly enjoyed our conversation and and it genuinely did, Mark. Like I can see just from the get-go, you're a great leader. You said things that really resonated with me and and a lot of the great leaders we've had on the podcast have talked about and you talked about them in a way that was so practical and logical and implementable that I was kind of like
Az (02:59)
Okay. This is gonna be a bit of a a cool and and very new era for Goop guys. But where did it all start, Mark? Can we get to know you and a bit of your history in the in the construction industry and what you've done? Well, if we want to go all the way back, how much time we've got to get the calendars out, but my my sort of education in the space started like my family had hardware stores. So I I started out working in my dad's hardware store in Cleveland in Brisbane. So and he was he was a paint paint guy and
Az (03:27)
And so we I worked there in hardware, in and around that. you know, did some stints with companies like Rinai, you know, the gas appliances went did went through university. But I it's sort of always been in that sort of hardware, paint, construction material space. And I've had the I guess been the opportunity to work with companies like Wattyl, Everhard Industries, Crimsafe Group, you know, you know, working in and around minor tens, bunnings, all those types of things. So I've always had an
Az (03:55)
affinity with with the the construction industry and I think probably the the key thing for me is I've always loved enabling and growing businesses and I I get a kick out of that you know setting setting up businesses structures programs products and you know then seeing them you know thrive and and and grow so that gives me gives me a great kick but yeah started back in the hardware hardware store you know serving serving customers you know mixing paint all those types of things so wow
Az (04:23)
Mate, the industry needs people like you.
Az (04:26)
That's one thing that we've discovered at The Good Builder. you know, we're very good at, you know, the craftsmanship side of things and things like that. But people with good business acumen is is, you know, essential for this industry. So what kind of drove you to take over the GM position of a family business down here that's been around for twenty-five years? Probably the the want for or not the want, the desire to help businesses grow and the love for that.
Az (04:52)
Well, I think the I mean it's just really about opportunity and that was probably one of the first things when I was approached b about the role. And I think and then after meeting Shane and Kirstee, look they're very inspirational and genuine people that have created a
Az (05:07)
fantastic business with just acres of opportunity. That's what I could see. And I I think the the mission around, you know, protecting investment, right? So not just investment from our our builder partners or but also that end use can that customer, right? Because whether it might be the developer or it might be the mum and dad or the family buying that house, you know, there's a there's an investment, whether it's dreams, dollars or whatnot in there. And I think the systems that they've created
Az (05:32)
You know, and and the the passion that the the entire team of Goop Guys has around it. And that goes for you know, the the the franchise team, but also the Jordan and Dave in the manufacturing side of it, and Shane and Kirstee, you know, in the back end administration and and and business relationship side of it. Very passionate, very strong technically. and you know, really at the end of the day, the thing that the opportunity is that you you're applying quality products reliably to protect people's investments. And I think
Az (06:00)
think
Az (06:00)
nice clear process clear goal that has value to to a lot of people so that that impressed me and I love it and I think again then the the fact that you've got that that system and that process and that product and then the opportunity for across Australia and and you know even globally so the business is is got lots of opportunities and projects globally you know I think you know the opportunity for me to come in
Az (06:25)
Work with the team to help scale, you know, was was was
Az (06:29)
Really big. Yeah. And and great to be able to come in and join the team, Shane Kirstee and the team, to help help grow and grow at scale and grow well and structured and and to continue to deliver that quality product reliably. So absolutely. And you know, one thing I love, look you said out the back, and we've also thought too is the protection of the investment for the end customer. I don't know if you know this, Mark, and we only had a brief chat out the back, but I used to be part owner in a in a building company called Avondale Homes on on the Gold Coast. I hope they use you guys and if they do
Az (06:59)
don't I'm gonna put you in touch with Daryl. And I love you, Darryl. But we used to build these massive acreage homes, $1.8 million contract values. And I remember one I went to and we used to have these contracts, Mark, where
Az (07:11)
We could go and do an open home before handover and bring clients through. And and the client could come and talk to potential clients about how well we built and all this sort of stuff. I remember going to this one home and it was probably our showcase showcase home at the time. I think it was 2022. And I went there. And as soon as I arrived, it was I felt chills from the homeowner. no.
Az (07:33)
And I was like, my God, it's six in the morning. I'm two and a half hours from home because we built out in the rural areas and we're about to have eighty customers walk through this home. And this customer, excuse me, doesn't want us in there. And I was like, why? We scratched the Italian bathtub and the toilet seat. That's the fear. And that day was one of the most stressful days of my life where we had to corral
Az (07:57)
clients away from the client who owned the home. Yeah. It could have been all prevented by goop. Yeah, that's After I went out and gooped and did a bathtub or two and stuff like that, I was like, why didn't we ever do that? Yeah, well that protection's so you know important. I mean I just heard just this week about a situation where there were again a bathtub, $5,000 bathtub and went to handover and it had been damaged, needed to be replaced, but because it was on the second story.
Az (08:23)
The team had to bust up all the tile work. They had to open they had to pull out a window. They had to get a crane to lift the bath in. So the five thousand dollar bathtub became a twenty thousand dollar bathtub, right? my God. And so again, the investment from the building team, and then, you know, the investment from the end customer, I think for me that it's just clear as
Az (08:43)
It's a gen it's a genuine protection. It's not it's not a it's not a promise, it's not a marketing gimmick. It's actually a genuine protection from those types of things, right? So I mean you get some extreme cases, but yeah, I think the end goal, you know
Az (08:58)
to protect investment is is something that really resonates with me. Yep. And I think again resonates with our customers that that utilize us. It should resonate with builders. Yeah. I mean you're not wasting any money. That's what I saw because that bathtub I think cost us very similar around twenty thousand dollars. And I I forgot to mention the toilet seat and the bathtub both came from Italy. no. So it took it was over COVID, took sixteen weeks to get back. man. Who's got time for that, right? She didn't have a bathtub and a toilet in in the main bathroom.
Az (09:27)
Yeah. So stress that build became our worst review. And that was my starting to be, and I'm I'm sorry to say, but it was sort of my indication of starting to create what makes a good builder and get out of a building industry because we weren't doing a good job. Yeah, yeah. Sad as it sounds, it's it's what it was. We were disappointing customers. So anyway, the other thing that I found pretty interesting about you, Mark, and I actually get from you in
Az (09:52)
a vibe from you actually is that you you're involved in the Wynnum Wolves. Yes. Yeah, yeah. And you're vice president there. Now, we've had a fair few what's really interesting about the Good Builder and and maybe I'm making assumptions here is I've had a lot of good guests on like self. And the ones that I find that are really always best at business, and maybe I'm painting everyone with a brush, has some sort of sporting background or involved in sport. And I reckon it's this team culture around sport that it
Az (10:21)
I hope that.
Az (10:22)
What's your involvement there in the Winnem Wolves and and why do you do it and does that cross over in your business life? Yeah, so I mean, yeah, absolutely it does cross over. but I think it's one of the things that I'm passionate about is that community involvement. So it's community club, and we have everything from sort of the top level football down to the to the you know, juniors community. And I've I've spent pretty much all my time in the community space. I've been vice president, I haven't been for a while. we've got a great president there, Abby Crame, he'll give you a call out, Rab, you'll love that.
Az (10:50)
But but a great community club. It's been there. I think it's a hundred and five years old. and but I've I've pretty much spent in the last little while space in the women's getting the women's programs set up. So I coach two football teams. I've got a women's senior and a and a women's junior, a girls under fourteen girls team. but one of the things I've loved about it and I've learned lots over the and I've been there it's coming on seventeen years now, is you know how to how to pull a team together and you know
Az (11:18)
Get them into the the the paradigm the space that they're really good at and then they can get some success. you know, there's nothing like you get a you know 12-year-old kid and you're like, hey, I'm gonna put you on the field here. And you know, you're giving them the confidence and you're training them to have the skills, and then you know, you you then you get them in a position where they can get a little bit of success on the field. And I think that that gives me the greatest bars when the, you know, the kid turns and says, I told you you could do it. that thanks, coach, I can, right? And you see them go and blossom there.
Az (11:44)
But it's really about, you know, what of what's the team like you've got? What are they really good at? What can they do? What's their capacity? What's their scope?
Az (11:51)
And then making sure that you're putting them in a position where they can they can be successful. And that doesn't have to be big success all the time. It can be little successes that a technique or a skill set or something that they do well. They they they continue to do it well. So I think that definitely carries across into the to the business world. And also, you know, in my role in Goop guys, like I don't I don't know everything about goop and or about construction. I don't. I'm not a s I'm not a specialist builder. I'm not Shane. I haven't got the you know the ideas in my head. Kirsty's administrative
Az (12:21)
Powerhouse, Jordan and Dave in the West, you know, great at the manufacturing and that that that's their space. That's what they're great at. So how do I make sure that I'm not getting in the way? Wow. Change for change matter. Well, how do we get make sure we've got all the parts working together to get the end result, right? Which is protecting people's investments. And if we're doing that, we all grow, right? So we grow our franchisees and our licensees business, we grow our business and we
Az (12:44)
we protect our customers' business and then give them something proud and easy and reliable to hand over and sell, right? So absolutely there's parallels there. But but yeah, it's it's it's it's good fun. I find a good stress relief too. Yeah. and yeah, I've I've worked with many sort of families and and
Az (13:02)
And kids and you know, like I said, seniors over the years, and it's it's just good fun. Yeah. So no, it was precisely what you said there, Mark. You said to me out the back. You know, you want to empower the people in teams that you lead where they're good and and make them thrive at what they're good at. And you're you're very good at positioning that. I think it's phenomenal. I think that's a for all the leaders out there, I think that's a great way to and and and the other thing that you you know, it's a great way to lead a team, but the other thing you said was, you know, you get out of the way. They're good at something.
Az (13:30)
You know, and one of the best builders I've ever talked to on the Good Builder, I said, What makes a good builder? And his thing was leave your ego at the door and know when you step aside and someone better than you walks in and and and that's how he runs his business. Yeah. Well you've got to get out of the way. Someone's amazing better at what you're doing, don't you can't pretend and and you know think you you know everything because you don't. Nobody knows everything, right? Yeah. so you taught me a bit today. Yeah.
Az (13:54)
you are mate. So you are you are. But yeah, it's it's and that's probably but that's probably my core skill set, right? It's like, you know, getting those teams together and I love it I've and I've I've worked with, you know, multiple different types of skill sets in teams across different types of businesses and
Az (14:09)
Again, you can very well mate. Yeah, and you can you can really get some good results by getting everybody in the right lanes and and working together. So So cool Mark. Mate, we'll get into the business side of things now. Okay, the market right now is pretty tight. Builders are watching every line item that kind of comes in on their invoicing and the cost of a home. Where does sort of goop sit at the moment and and what are builders sort of feeling out there? I know you're fet relatively new, but what's Look, I think look, I mean cost is you know the the increase.
Az (14:38)
We're getting, and I know the I know our builders, you know, we're under pressure, right? Like, you know, and some of the raw material people they put their price up every 30 seconds, and it's it's hard to manage the the cost and that type of thing. But I think it's I don't know whether you know to do goop or not do goop is a cost cutting exercise. I think it's a more like a risk taking exercise, right? And the team go, maybe I'll take the risk on this, right? And maybe I'll get through. And but but you know, we've just talked about a couple of examples. You don't get through all the time,
Az (15:07)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So so I think it's it's one of those things and I think probably you know you see the builders because they understand the the longer term, right? So to replace that toilet and that bath, like it's 16 weeks and then you've got to pull your team off, you know, other jobs to do that one and pay more and you know coordinate in and around it and coordinate around the customer and that type of stuff. Like who's got time for that? Like there's a massive pipe full. We know that there's
Az (15:35)
big demand. I mean, even though there's sort of the, you know, you listen to the news at the moment, they tell you, the sky's falling in, but we still got housing demand. We still need to build and we know we don't have enough people to build it. And yeah, right. So so there's gonna be plenty of work, right? So so I think it's kinda go I think some of the builders may be weighing up the risk, but then you see the ones go, what's mitigate that risk, right?
Az (15:55)
Yeah. Let's let's in let's protect our investment, let's protect our customers' investment. And, you know, for the on the scale of the job, right? What's an average home these days in Australia? It's a million bucks, like nine hundred thousand bucks, right? No, for an five hundred to a thousand dollars to protect that investment and stop that rework and stop you delaying all your other projects. You know, that it's a it's sort of like an insurance policy, right? It really is. And and we did a bit of a
Az (16:19)
Research actually, Mark, about some builders that we had in our community when we were actually a bit smaller. We've got a lot more now. I want to run the test again. And they were saying damage to the surfaces that you guys protect across the board of those who don't use it is about 10% of the build cost. Think about that at a million bucks. It can be a hundred grand.
Az (16:40)
I think the average was around twenty seven thousand dollars of damage mark on a home. Yeah, yeah. Kirstee knows it 'cause we talked about it on her pod, but like how wild is that? Who you're completely right. Like you're either gonna pay five hundred to a thousand or you're gonna pay twenty seven thousand pretty much. Yep. Like
Az (16:57)
I I just don't know why more builders aren't doing it. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So but look again, again, I you understand the pressures, right? And so all of a sudden your timber goes up, you know, thirteen percent 'cause they've decided to whack you with that or have an a you know, temporary fuel levy or whatever, which other people reasonably have had to do, right? And I've seen across the the the market some of the increases of, you know, back to back, right? Yeah. and so we understand that pressure, but again, you know, really it's the goop
Az (17:22)
service is really about that risk mitigation and to stop that cost, you know, the bigger cost long term. And I think the people that do we we work with, they understand that. Yeah. They don't have the time or the capacity or you know, to to be doing all that rework, right? No. And you've got some very good builders on board. I want to call out one, Eddie Kimley, I did your home, three story home, which nearly killed me, mate. But it was a beautiful home and I'm sure it was protected well because I got the tick of approval one. Perfect on end of Aaron.
Az (17:49)
Well thank you, thank you. You weren't there at the time, but I hope that was the I think I got paid for the job, so I think I'm okay. There was no call out. no, but like good builders like that.
Az (18:00)
That's that's the biggest killer, right? Like the rework, right? That's one of the biggest killers. Yeah, yeah. And that volume too, when you're doing it. You got no time. Trades are thin, all the things you mentioned. Yeah. yeah. Very, very interesting. Well, the other thing, you've worked across the the the drainage, coatings, and now goop.
Az (18:17)
What you see that is sort of relatively the same across all those and the trades and what what's a a personality trait that you see amongst the good guys that you have dealt with across your career that kind of
Az (18:30)
helps them be successful in in their business. What what do you say? Yeah, well I think I think that whole quality product and the and the r reliability, that's one of the biggest things, right? So when you're you're you're doing your con your commercial or your residential construction, you want to be
Az (18:44)
working with reliable people. Yeah. So the product quality is reliable. You and you if it's a service, they show up when they say they're going to show up and get the the product applied reliably. And that could be anything from, you know, like the ABARD draining systems, water w you know, water management systems, you know, through to security screens, you know, with the crimsafe group water paint coatings for what all it's got to be reliable. It could be finished, it's got to do the job. So I think that's probably been one of the consistencies. And if you can do that well, and that's one of again the opportunities I saw with goop guys. Yeah. I was like, wow
Az (19:14)
You
Az (19:14)
know, we just really deliver that quality product reliably, right? To protect to protect. And that's probably been the key thing. And that
Az (19:23)
That also then has has a focus on the customer because I think a lot of times some businesses can really lose focus on the customer. Yeah that end user, that end person, that the person that comes in and you're handing over the keys to, whether it might be a big commercial property or or apartment complex or it might just be a family home, don't lose focus on them. What is their expectations? What do they need? What have they invested in this whole process, right? Yeah. and so there's a focus on that. And then when you're doing your delivering or you're producing or you're manufacturing your product, and then you're delivering
Az (19:51)
That service, okay, what what do they expect? What are how are we going meet that? And if you meet that expectation, then you that you win, they're happy, and your business will organically grow, right? So that's where I've seen success across the different types of construction materials. Yeah. so you know, adherence to quality, customer focus, and then being being a reliable partner. And that comes into when things go wrong, right? So you can always have.
Az (20:16)
runs a product that don't necessarily work or there's that that haven't been applied or installed properly, but it's leaning into those situations and not, you know, you know, within reason, leaning in and and working with your customers, right? To make to how do we rectify this. Okay, this isn't good, but how do we turn that around? And I so I think that's that commitment to communication and transparency and leaning in, people will, you know,
Az (20:39)
If you you work through a situation with them, then they won't go anywhere else, right? Yeah. because you're reliable and and you're working with them, right? Yeah. To help them achieve what they need to achieve. And that's not just you saying that. I I remember when I was gooping, I actually missed a couple of windows at one of the jobs and and it was like, you know, I I I I'll I was not come down on in any way, but the message was, you know, you go and
Az (21:04)
sort the thing as quick as possible. Yeah, rectify it. so the builder can proceed. Because I missed the bathtub. so that wasn't any good in a couple of windows. But but you know we we we the the urgency was for me what I heard, you know, and I've experienced it I'm talking from experience is that go and sort that out.
Az (21:20)
As quick as you can so the builder can keep proceeding work. Yeah, absolutely. And just take a look around that that's why I wear glasses now and I just I I'll look around next time, go to Specksavers and sort yourself out. I think it's really and it's one of the things I use in my coaching all the time. So how do you react? Things go wrong. They do. Like you can't nobody nobody has a hundred percent completion rate all the time, right?
Az (21:39)
It's how you react when things don't go to plan or don't go wrong. How do you pivot? Do you lean in or do you go high, go missing, right? And if you you lean in and you work with your customers, you know, there's generally gonna be a a good outcome ultimately, right? Yeah. It might be some pain, there might be some tears, there might be some frustration, but at the end of the day, if you're a reliable partner,
Az (21:59)
you know, ultimately that's good for the ongoing growth of the business. Not only for the some someone like Goop guys, but also for the your end customer, right? Yeah. I think it's really important that you talk about that, hey Mark. Like the I think we lose sight of that in the construction industry. We we we think about you know, the end job and getting to build the home or whatever we're doing, but we don't think about, you know, what actually makes a good relationship for people. And things in any build go wrong.
Az (22:27)
Like I would be dumbfounded if there is a build out there that has gone smoothly a hundred percent. If there is one, please let us know we will sit on the couch and tell me about it. But I I don't think there is one. No, no. And it is truly I think in our industry we do sometimes not you guys, but builders in general and tradies, we hide from the stakes and and and I saw that in my experience when I was with Adam Dale Holmes and and that's one thing that I loved about the goop guys and why I wanted to buy a franchise and who knows, I might be still in market actually. but
Az (22:57)
Later. Yeah, we'll talk later. but you know, it was one thing that was really instilled in me when I was contracting them. Like, you know, if there is a problem, you sort it out, you work with the customer. I love that, and I think that's a a really strong value that you guys hold of the good guys. Yeah, absolutely. now, in terms of your coverage of Australia.
Az (23:15)
How's that mark now? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So we're down the East Coast. And we've got some areas where we're looking to to expand in terms of that franchisee and/or licensee as well. So we've kind of got so franchisees where you can sort of pick up and run own your own business. And I think one of the things again, we'll talk about opportunity with the business when I joined. It's like, wow, the the profitability, if you operate yourself right, there's some really good profitability for you to run your franchise and you, you know, quality product, profitable.
Az (23:45)
business and you just delivering product
Az (23:48)
protection that people need, right? So there's ticking a whole lot of boxes there with that. But look, we're you know, we're certainly yeah, we're growing. So that's one of the reasons I was brought into the business. Yeah, the business is scaling and growing. We've got different projects, but we certainly want to see the Australia, you know, network increase. Yeah. so we've got, you know, open opportunities in Sydney, down in in a little bit in Melbourne in some regional Victoria, you know, and we're ultimately, you know, looking sort of Adelaide and and Western Australia long term. Yeah. but yeah and even
Az (24:17)
Into central Queensland. So again, driven by some of our customers too. They have projects going saying, Hey, I've heard of WA customers that want you over there. Yeah, yeah. So we've got our franchise system, but there's also licensee systems. So a little bit different levels and structures. Obviously, the franchisees get lots of different support and and commitments in regards to that in regard to marketing and those types of things. but the licensees, you know, it's a certainly a situation where we might have a project in an area and there might be an associated trade, so it could be a cleaner.
Az (24:46)
cleaning business or it could be a painter or it could be a stonemason or a waterproofer, where they pick up a license and then they're doing that and they're keeping their teams busy, right? 'Cause we all know
Az (24:55)
know when you're running a business and you know there's always the highs and lows, well, you know, this goop license could be something that you could run parallel and keep your team busy, keep them working with you, right? Because you don't want them going over the road, right? You know, in those quiet periods up and downs, right? Because you know you you got good team members and you want to get them to stick with you. So so there's those sort of opportunities as well that are that are starting to open up. But you know definitely first priority like blow the franchise and and and and and expand from there. But yeah more and more opportunity.
Az (25:24)
and again, you know, one of my roles coming into the business is how do we scale that and how do we leverage that and and maximize that as best we can. You know what I heard? I was just on the phone before you jumped in with a very good builder in northern New South Wales, actually. And I won't mention the builder, but he's a franchise builder who bought a franchise of a pool company. Right. And he's doing training in a pool company this morning on the Gold Coast.
Az (25:51)
And I was thinking, you should get a good point. What, you know, like I look at the trades and builders, you just mentioned it then.
Az (25:58)
I think a good franchise could be a very good opportunity for a builder or a franchise. I know builders own a very good builder again, another franchise builder who owns a a framing company in Rockhampton and does very well out of it. And I'll and and and back before the Good Builder, I helped him with a website and things like that. And I said to him, But mate, your XX franchise, how are you gonna sell frames to every other builder? And they're like, We've all got relationships. We know there's like I'm not gonna take their builds.
Az (26:24)
I'm gonna service them with frames.
Az (26:26)
And he does very well out of his framing business. And I always thought with Goop because I wanted to get involved, as you I've said a few times now. But for a builder, I was like, this could be a good opportunity for a builder to service their own and then also get it out there because they understand construction. Yeah, absolutely. It's a great opportunity. Yeah, it's a great opportunity. Well, we even got one of our franchisees that they, you know, are called the wheel of Brisbane North. he's a legend. Yeah, I wouldn't want the pot, actually. Yeah, yeah. So he you know, so he's got a he's got a like he runs his
Az (26:54)
group business is franchise, he's got a full franchise and but also runs a very successful waterproofing business as well.
Az (27:00)
Right. So so again, you know, like separate lines, but you know, synergies, right? So you know, he'll find that he's on on the on the same projects or wins more of the project. So I think those opportunities, like we can definitely explore those and see if it's suitable and and you know, and that type of stuff. So I think there's there's some scale of growth there, but but yeah, so look, there's there's definitely more growth on the horizon and that's why, you know, Shane and Kirsi have got me in to sort of help them support them to to get that growth that
Az (27:29)
And then growth not just for goop guys business but also our franchisees and ultimately our customers being able to deliver quality finishes right when they do the handover. It's pretty simple. It really is pretty simple, Mark. Like as you said, just de-risking it, making sure that the customer's happy and and the trades can keep moving and onto the next roles. Absolutely. mate. yeah, yeah. Like the pain, the actual pain of of
Az (27:52)
Something going on. Yeah, you you you're completely right. So and we need to pump out more units than that, but we don't need in the industry and
Az (28:00)
I'm I'm not entirely saying goop is the sole solution of this. But we don't need more hiccups in the industry and and more delays on things because we're not meeting what we're trying to construct anyway. So the the more efficient you can be, more profitable you can be because you're not going back and fixing stuff. Yeah. And the happier your trades are gonna be. Like even I was actually, this was one thing, Mark.
Az (28:23)
Mate, I went to a job and we were pretty small with I'm laughing to myself because we were pretty small with the good builder at the time and I d as I talked out the back, I don't have an ego, I don't care about my you know, my whatever. I walked on, but I walked on this job site when I was working with Goop and the cleaners started clapping and they were like, Yeah, Goop's here, or or I didn't actually hear what they said. And I walked on there and I'm like, hey, the good builder. I thought they were cheering the good builder.
Az (28:47)
Mate, they'll cheering good. There you go. because they said anytime that
Az (28:53)
Goop come on and do a job, it's so easy to to clean. You just peel off the thing, you know, there's no problem with the windows and they freaking love. So what I actually felt and experienced from from my experience with working with you guys was that other trades love you on site as well. Yeah. That's really interesting where other trades don't always love other trades. No, no, there's they're definitely not. and you know, call out to our Sparky friends, you they're obviously the the the they cop the wrath a fair bit, but
Az (29:22)
But but yeah, you're right. And I think what it does is it it just helps everyone keep moving. So if you if your brickie accidentally runs his trail along the window or puts a brick through it or something like that, right? Or whatever, you know, they they've got to do the rework, right? Like they're gonna get the call back and they've got to do the rework and they've probably got 30 jobs lined up, you know. But right, and and then there's costs. Yeah, so the bricky's move out of the way for them. Yeah, because they were they were getting up to to brick up and they were like, no, no.
Az (29:50)
No, no, no. We know the job's gonna be better if you get it done. So they moved the bricks back and I just went. Yep, helps everyone keep moving. And we kept moving. So very interesting. Well, mate, I've only got the one question left for you, but I'm sure we're gonna have you back on and we're gonna go out there and and we're gonna do a few videos with a few of the the franchisees and things out that show you what's happening out there. We'd love a few of the builders too, as we're gonna chat to about goop. But you know we're called the good builder, Mark.
Az (30:18)
What do you think makes a good builder, mate? Geez, well, I think good builder. So a good builder is somebody who, you know, that that project management sort of piece comes into it. And when I talk about that, it's that whole, you know, communication, transparency, lean in when things don't go right. but also the risk mitigation piece as well. Like so they're really thinking about it end-to-end and how do I
Az (30:43)
How do I stop my customer suffering delays? And you know, it's always the thing that chases us all the time. But how do I minimize that? And then then if we want to minimize that, then how does that work across all the 30, 40 things that we're doing, right? Because it's it's a complex job, right? And you're trying to get all the, you know, the everybody in the orchestra to be playing their bit of music at the same in their in their queue, right? So so I think it's those those that that take care to project management.
Az (31:09)
to to look through it. But then also at the end of the day too with their customers, the people that they're they're building for, that they take some they have some responsibility for. It's not just another number punching out. Like you don't have to pretend you own the bus the the thing you're building, but
Az (31:24)
You know, have some care for it and then that shows through to your customer, your your end customer. I mean, I'll you know, give you an example when we built our little four bedroom home off the plan, I won't mention the builder, and we were coming to completion and one of the one of the the the trades on site put a backhoe through some piping and the site supervisor came to me and said, well, you need to pay for this. I was like, Well, why do I need to pay for it? He's like, Well, do you want your house?
Az (31:49)
Well, that's what I said. Well, I said a few other words as well. I said, Well, you're kidding. Are you kidding? Are you like you're threatening to hold up my house? Yeah, that's what I'm doing. So do you want your house or not? Like you've got to pay. So do you know what I mean? So that's that that's an extreme example, right? where this guy was, you know, yeah, no care or responsibility for the end customer, right? So it's just my little family, you know, moving into this house like it was our first sort of first, you know, big sort of house together. but you know, that again you
Az (32:16)
Take that little bit of responsibility and that little bit of care. You don't have to be, you know
Az (32:20)
It doesn't have to be the love story of the week where you don't have to pretend it's yours, you know. Yeah. But again, yeah, that project management, that risk mitigation and a little bit of care. You know what? I spoke with a very good builder yesterday who I have introduced to Goop, but I don't think we've done every anything with him, but he's very, very interested. a gentleman builds beautiful big homes. Very keen to work with you. But I was on the phone with him yesterday and he said the same thing. He said he was having an in not an
Az (32:46)
incident but he was having an issue with a few of his younger boys that were doing the work in a home. and I hope he doesn't mind me saying this, but he's a bit between jobs in in bigger builds and projects and one's not going to start for six to eight weeks. So we started hanging the plaster. Doing it to help help out and help the keep the boys busy. But
Az (33:03)
There were a few issues with the with the job and he said that you know he went and got a few cans of monster sat down and talked about exactly what you talked about, and he said their attitude changed. And now they're they want to learn. They're thinking about the customer, they're advancing themselves, they're not taking
Az (33:21)
excuse me, feedback critically, Mark, and all those sorts of things and he goes, you know, the teams back. And I think that was a really good point that you talked about. And I think more that we need to think of in the industry. We're not just
Az (33:33)
You know, I I sometimes we do a job. It's like me and you. We we do this job and we're kinda like, you know, I do a pod. I love this one by the way, but we do a pod and we're just kinda done. Yeah. You know, I think that's what you're saying. It's think about the end result and who you're doing it for and and I've got to always think about the builders we're doing this for how do we get the best education out of it and stuff like that. So very cool what you just said, Mark.
Az (33:57)
And then the other thing too is it it sort of goes both ways. If they're taking a little bit more care and a bit more thinking about it, yeah.
Az (34:03)
they're a more proud of what they're doing, what they're achieving, and they're delivering these stuff and it's all going well and it's great finish. Customer says, Hey, great job. Boss says, Hey, great job, guys. Well done. So you can you really can find a little bit of purpose. And that might sound a little bit silly, but no it's important, right? When you're working, you've got to have a little bit of purpose and be able to have a little bit of pride in what you're doing.
Az (34:22)
Absolutely. And so, you know, that's that's a one way to get hey, well, this is what the focus is. We're gonna deliver a great finish and an outcome for the customer and that'll that'll flow back. Yeah. In in multiple levels. Well, Mark, like I said in the podcast, that's why I got out of building and why I sold out of Avendale Homes, because we couldn't deliver that product that I was proud of. As sad as that sounds, that's the honest truth. And and I'm as I said, I'm not just pumping you up and saying Goop guys is the is the
Az (34:49)
you know, answer to everything, but i i I know if we used it, I may not have never left. You know, you you don't know. I just couldn't look a customer in the face that spent one point eight million dollars and hated us. And it's all their money. Yeah. Yeah. You know, you gotta think about that. Yeah. So it's a interesting lesson to learn. But that's why I love the Goop guys and so proud to be partnered with you guys and and yeah, really awesome to meet you, Mark. Like mate, as I said, I think you know, Goop Shane and Kirstee are absolutely
Az (35:17)
Amazing people who've done the you know Australian manufacturing too. absolutely, yeah you've got to remember that. Yeah, absolutely. actually, I'm not gonna even end the pod there. I'm gonna keep going. I am so passionate about Australian manufacturing. I am so disappointed with not what's happening in Australia, but we don't have any left. Like, what do we do? What did we manufacture here anymore? How do we support local? How do we support local business? How do we support local family businesses that
Az (35:42)
do so much and give so much opportunity to Australians. Yeah. well I think I mean covet's kinda taught us a lot of things about supply chains and I think we're start starting to so see a slow creep back of stuff. But you just can't
Az (35:54)
You can't flick a switch and then recreate a steel industry, you know, maximise it. Like you can't do that. So it's going to take time. But I think the, I think, you know, community and government understand that, okay, we need to be a little bit more self-sufficient and bring some of those things back. I think there's there's opportunities in in new industries as well, you know, to sort of new technology and that type of stuff to really bring on board, right? So why why wouldn't we get involved? And I think, you know, we always have these big overarching arguments about renewable.
Az (36:22)
energy but you look at how many solar panels are out there and you know there's a transition already going right I think I saw a stat the other day 40 to 50 percent of the country's energy is covered by renewables during the day right yeah you know we won't the semantics of that but no I mean that's good that's a new industry a whole new industry right like they get caught up in the in the they don't get caught up in the you know the the culture wars and the arguments like what hey what's the new industries what can we do what can we bring here and run with right and and but look you know goop guys manufacturing you know on the Sunshine Code
Az (36:52)
you know, it's you know, Jordan who's the who's the lead there, does a great job. And Dave, in terms of getting the product mixed and delivered, no, not just nationally, but also globally too. And we've got significant customers overseas that you know where you know they're mixing batches and shipping to. So I think there's things we can do. And again, that overall bringing all that manufacturing capability back, it'll be it'll take time.
Az (37:15)
But I think the other thing too is that you yeah, you know, you you we're we're sort of enmeshed in the in the Asian region, right? You know, and so China's our biggest trading partner and you know, we I think we just signed a free trade agreement with Indonesia. Yeah. They do heaps of stuff. Malaysia, Vietnam, they're all, you know, all becoming sort of manufacturing powerhouses. So I think we're gonna we're never ever gonna retreat from that fully. Yeah. But I think there's ways for us to build capacity. So when something like COVID happens, we're not
Az (37:41)
You know, you remember what it was like, you know, trying to get material and you know, even though we were sort of a designated industry, and it was probably boom for I know from the construction materials, people were booming 30, 40 percent or more in some cases. but at the end of the day too, then it was like, well, how do you get the resupply of product, right? Yeah, absolutely. And the cost when you're at the end of the supply chain. So so yeah, I think it'll be a slow creep over time, but at the end of the day, there's things you can do likely.
Az (38:09)
build your capacity and and and and have multiple supply chains, don't just rely on that container coming coming in. Great advice, mate. You should run a building company. But I'm not gonna say that because now you're running Goop guys. Yeah, not this week. I should probably shut up. But mate, I could talk to you all day, Mark, that was mate, you're a fascinating guy. I think you're a an amazing operator. I learn a lot with our chat out the back. Learn a lot on this chat here and
Az (38:35)
As we always do, wish you all the success. I think so. Then Goop guys, like yeah, as you said, the opportunity is amazing. Yeah, so no looking for appreciate the time to catch up and really looking forward to you know you know, kicking on with the Goop Guys team and and getting that growth that we know the the opportunities there and and working with everyone across the industry to protect investments and keep rolling. Let's go. You're a legend, Mark. Thank you so much, mate.