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Pilot to Pilot is the podcast for anyone who flies — or dreams about it. Host Justin Siems sits down with airline captains, bush pilots, CFIs, and everyone in between for honest conversations about the path to the cockpit, the grind of the career, and the love of flying that keeps us coming back. Whether you're a student pilot chasing your first solo or a captain with 20,000 hours, there's a seat for you here. New episodes weekly.
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Speaker 1:My name is Justin Sims, and I am your host. Today's episode is called five tips for a successful checkride, and it's just that. If you want some help, if you have a checkride coming up or, you know, you just have anxiety about tests in general, here are five tips for you to have a successful checkride, whether it's your private, instrument, commercial, ATP, or even a type rating. These tips can help you. Johnny and I went to school together at Ohio State.
Speaker 1:Although we didn't really spend too much time together at Ohio State, we found each other when I was reaching out for the magazine, and I was like, dude, you're a young DPE. Jason, Sesnator was like, hey, man. You should have him write for your articles. And I was like, cool. Let's do it.
Speaker 1:And, we have just been keeping to do that. He's been volume one, volume two, volume three, and volume four, which is at the printers, should be soon. But today's episode is about five tips for a good checkride. You're not gonna wanna miss this. If you wanna read the written form, check out Pilot to Pilot magazine.
Speaker 1:You can go to our website and buy it. We have a couple copies left of volume one. So if you want the print itself, which is arguably one of the nicer ones we've ever made, this thing just feels so good. It's on my hands right now. Love it.
Speaker 1:If you don't have one, please check them out. But I don't wanna waste any more time. So any further ado, here's the Pilot to Pilot podcast with Johnny Ginley. I appreciate you being willing to to create and and write the piece that you wrote and kinda be the DPE for Pilot to Pilot. It's also really funny because we went to college essentially together, graduated in the aviation department.
Speaker 1:We didn't really talk too much though. So it's funny now, here we are working together. Right. But definitely knew of each other and it's cool to see you just killing it, man.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Absolutely. Really excited to be here. I appreciate, you know, opportunity to get on here and chat and Yeah. Provide some some context to a side of the world that I think everybody goes through as a pilot.
Speaker 2:But sometimes it doesn't get talked about enough from from the other side of the house.
Speaker 1:Yeah. No. Absolutely. And I I think there's just like... I mean, talk about it in your piece a little bit.
Speaker 1:Just, the stress that comes with a checkride. How a little bit of stress is okay, but I mean, everyone has a different kind of layer or varying extent of stress going into checkrides, especially if you're private because you just don't know what to expect. A lot of times I say the private is your hardest check ride just because it's up in the air. You don't know what they're gonna ask, how they're gonna ask, the format of it, did you sleep enough, did you eat enough, kind of you don't know what's gonna happen. Exactly.
Speaker 1:As a DPE, when you walk into the room, can you tell pretty pretty quick if someone's either too stressed or this is gonna go well?
Speaker 2:You definitely can. You get a good vibe on on the room and and it and it is funny. Like you said, the private pilot checkride is the first one. After that
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You generally have an idea what's going on. But with the private, you can walk in and and can tell right off the get go if someone has all of their materials out and they're organized or if they're still scurrying through getting stuff ready. And you can also see the body language too. And that's really the biggest thing that we try to do or we should be doing as examiners is trying to set that tone and set that stage from the very beginning of trying to ease that anxiety, ease those nerves. So that way, you know, we're we're just two pilots sitting down having a conversation.
Speaker 2:Obviously, there's a big there's a big reward at the end of it, but but we want to start that tone right off the get go to try to ease those nerves so we can see that Pilot perform as they would on any other day.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And how did you decide you wanted a DPE? How did you know that this is something you wanted to do?
Speaker 2:Yeah. You know, it it really is something that I'd never put a ton of thought into. I... I've been an instructor, a flight instructor for a long time. I always enjoyed teaching, always enjoyed kind of the learning and educational aspect of aviation and, you know, and I will give credit to my wife of all people.
Speaker 2:She said, you know, have you ever thought about, you know, being a DP? I just, I feel like you would be someone that could really relate with people and bring kind of a different experience to kind of what that may be stereotypical, you know, Pilot examiner is. And at that point, let's say, you know, that would be something neat to get involved with. It kind of a little bit of a process to get to that point working with the FAA. But that was really kind of the impetus to kind of get that get that rolling.
Speaker 1:What does it... I mean, I've never thought about being a DPE and not even an instructor, but what is the process like? Do you just email and be like, hey, my name is Johnny. I want to be a DPE. And they're like, okay, we'll put you on the waiting list.
Speaker 1:Like, how does it even Right. Start
Speaker 2:The the first part of it really starts with a need and and as we know, there's there's a there's a big need obviously within, you know, the entire country for DPs but it really goes into the local level saying, you know, do we need additional DPs? And what you do is you submit an application through the FAA that's saying, hey, here's all my qualifications. Here's, you know, what I, you know, my day job is, what my background is. And then as need comes up in the local area, then the FAA will go to that pool of applicants and say, okay, let's start pulling from there. And then you go through an interview and vetting process and kind of onboarding from there after you go through training.
Speaker 2:The backside of it as well is also just having a generally good relationship with the local physdo and inspectors. So that way they, you know, come to that time when they say, okay. Hey. We know, you know, there's some, you know, hopefully, some standout individuals, you know, that we can that we can go to that have applications in there that we want to be, you know, not you know, because you really are, you're a face of the FAA, you're a designee of the FAA and the administrator. So making sure that those are individuals who they they know and can trust and and know will go and get the job done.
Speaker 1:When you're in that training, I mean, they're probably not gonna be like, hey, don't pass everyone. But like is there like... Don't even know if you could talk about it, but what do they say about like the actual examination? Like, I mean, there's gonna be an emotional side too. Like, you're eventually gonna feel bad for the applicant and you're like, maybe I should pass, maybe I shouldn't.
Speaker 1:But Right. Kind of what's their recommendation for, for just how you handle a failure or like a fifty fifty up in the air?
Speaker 2:Yeah. No. And that's that's a great question. You know, they really... The FAA's biggest thing is that the the answer key is right in front of everybody.
Speaker 2:There are no trick questions. There are no surprises. When we go fly, everything we do on that flight is exactly what they should have been doing on the previous flight. So there's no there's no surprises to what we're doing. And so really what the FAA leans on in that case is, you know, the ACS or the PTS, the standard that will decide if someone was within that or outside of that.
Speaker 2:And, you know, and that's really the biggest piece of it is just saying, okay, are we within that standard? Are we looking at that and the big picture as well of being a overall safe and competent pilot using risk management, judgment and all those skills. But, you know, it's really one of those things that you don't go looking for failures. Failures, you know, and disapprovals, they will they will happen and and you don't need to go out and try to to pin something on somebody. If if somebody's going to get off altitude or they're gonna have a bad landing, it's going to happen.
Speaker 2:I don't need to, I don't need to withhold, you know, pull that out of them. And I think that was the biggest advice that I got from our, you know, managing, you know, specialists here in our physio is saying, don't, don't go try to, to find disapprovals. They will happen naturally, statistically, if you do, you know, the 10 check rides statistically, you know, there, there will be some that, that don't go the way we all want it to go. And, and, you know, and usually that is because it is a pretty clear, you know, deviance of of the of the standard that's been set.
Speaker 1:Is there an average? I'm guessing there is, but what is the average for a pass rate of like, say, a private pilot or... I don't know if you have it for every single... For checkride, but just like overall, what's the the average pass versus fail on a checkride?
Speaker 2:Yeah. The the average pass rates, they fluctuate a lot and especially depending on checkride. You know, Private Pilot is probably, you know, maybe on the lower end and kind of your your flight instructor checkride is a little more difficult, complex checkride, little more on the lower end but then everything in between naturally goes up a little bit, right? Because like we talked about before, it's your second, third checkride. You have an idea of what you're getting into after that.
Speaker 2:The FAA publishes all the statistics annually and you know, and it really depends on area and region and type of checkride, but, you know, we're typically in that 75% to 80% range where, you know, maybe, you know, two out of 10 to maybe three out of 10 you know, have a disapproval item. But the overwhelming majority are are getting there on on the first attempt and that really goes into, you know, just the amount of training and effort that the students are putting into, so that way when they show up on Checker a Day, they're ready to go and and we're definitely seeing that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Which is good. And I'm sure by now you probably have flight instructors that you're used to name seeing. So you you have expectations. You know what you should see from people that are trained by certain instructors.
Speaker 1:So it also helps to have kind of a rapport with them as well and then get the idea of like, alright, this person trained with Ohio State. This person trained with this, instructor at... Was it... Is Capital City still there? I don't know.
Speaker 2:There go. Alright.
Speaker 1:So I've trained there. It's like, alright. So I know what to expect. It's like, I know what they're teaching you to and and you can hold them to a certain certain kind of bar and and like... Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It... It's it's really cool to see you doing this. I mean, at a young age, because like you said, most of you think of like an older, maybe an airline pilot, maybe someone's been doing this for fifty years. Sometimes it can be intimidating.
Speaker 1:So just seeing someone younger, I'm sure when they see someone that's younger than them, which I'm sure does happen, they're like, woah, alright, I was not expecting that. Alright, let's go. Right.
Speaker 2:Right. And that's and that's I think a big piece of it is is definitely it it's changing the mold a little bit on being, you know, the quote younger DPE but it but it really just goes so, you know, that you can have a a big quantity and quality of experience in in a relatively short amount of time, you know. I've I've been flying professionally for ten years and you know, a little bit more outside of that through training but but you you get a lot of breadth of depth of experience that, you know, can become relevant to the everyday student pilot going through training. And I think that's the biggest thing is always making sure that as an examiner, as an evaluator that we are relevant to the industry, you know, being an active, GA pilot, being an active corporate pilot, you see the industry every single day and in a diff... In a number of different levels.
Speaker 2:So to be able to take that back to the training and evaluation part of of the flight world is is I think super important.
Speaker 1:Yeah. How are your check rides? You know, do you look back on your check rides? Or one, did you pass more? Did you have any failures?
Speaker 1:Or... We kinda talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Absolutely. I, you know, have... I've been very fortunate that I've not had any disapprovals on check rights in the past and I don't know if that was luck or skill or a combination of the two, but but it was definitely, you know, it's one of those things now that I sit in this seat looking back and saying, wow, you know, when I was 17 years old and did my private pilot check, I don't know if I probably, you know, performed to the same standard that I'm that I'm seeing and looking at today and I probably did but but, yeah, it definitely is, you know, a different kind of set of circumstances looking back now seeing from from this side of the equation.
Speaker 1:Yeah. What was your favorite check ride? And this is as you as a student. Do you have a favorite check ride and a least favorite check ride that you've taken?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I I think as a student, probably my favorite check ride was the multi engine check ride. Okay. Because it was one of those check rides where you're flying a bigger airplane, you're, you know, you've got more systems. It it was one of those things that you felt, man, if I can...
Speaker 2:If I get through this, and you know, I'm showing I can conduct myself especially majority of that checkride is flying on a single engine. That's a really great, you know, pat on the back for yourself and kudos for, you know, being able to get through something like that. From a DPE standpoint, I think one of my favorite check rides to administer is the initial CFI check ride, so for flight And because that you almost get to see the full circle come back around and now for a lot of that checkride, the applicant is teaching me or they're talking to me and acting as if I'm the student. So you get to see somebody not only explain their knowledge, but they get to demonstrate their instructional skill and their knowledge. And so you get to really see someone step out just from being someone who was maybe going through training to learn to regurgitate information, now they're learning to be able to teach it and that's a really cool thing to be able to see and when they pass, now they get that ability to go take it on to the next generation.
Speaker 2:So that's a very fulfilling checkride as Yeah. As an examiner.
Speaker 1:Dude, that checkride scared the crap out of me. Like the whole reason I didn't become a CFI was because I didn't wanna do like a nine hour ground and then go fly. Like Right. I I literally applied for any job I could find and eventually flew for, Midwest aerial or Midwest aerial photography. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I can't remember the name anymore. But, yeah, out of, Darby Dan in Ohio. So, yeah, that that check right alone scared the crap out of me. Is your... Is the ground still like nine hours, eight hours?
Speaker 1:Is that still something that happens?
Speaker 2:You know, and of course, it all varies. Yeah. We have, I'm sure, from examiner to examiner. Mine definitely doesn't go quite that long. And one of the biggest things that has changed in that specifically with the CFI checkride is that we've transitioned from the PTS, the Practical Test Standards to the ACS Yeah.
Speaker 2:Which is the Airman Certification Standards. So what the ACS has allowed us to do is it's given us as the examiners a little more flexibility on how we test that. So rather than necessarily having to go line by line by line getting every single thing, we can test a combination of knowledge, risk and skill items there. So if we're going through a task item and the applicant is doing well or we've accomplished what we need to, we can move on rather than having to go through every single line item.
Speaker 1:Now if
Speaker 2:we see things that are needing a little more depth, can go a little deeper in that. But it's allowed, I think, the overall checkride experience. It's still lengthy because there just are naturally a lot more task items to complete on that CFI ride both in the knowledge and the and the flight portion. But we've been able to to wrangle it in just a a little bit.
Speaker 1:That's good. Yeah. Nine hours, man. I mean, you don't want to be there for nine hours. You're like, dude, I'm gonna see my wife.
Speaker 1:I want to go find my own plane. Like, let's go. Right.
Speaker 2:Right. And and generally and with most of the check rides, especially the flight instructor checkride. After you sit down with an individual and you sit there and you start having a conversation for an hour about aircraft and airplanes, you generally start to get an idea how how they're doing. And so the, you know, the the remaining time in there really is going through the rest of the task items to ensure we still have satisfactory knowledge. But you can get a really good, a good grip on on how things are going after that after that first hour to hour and a half of of talking with someone.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Absolutely. And you wrote a piece for this magazine and it's five successful tips or five tips that you can have a successful check ride. So I figured we'll just kinda go one by one and we'll talk about each Absolutely. One if you're alright with Alright.
Speaker 1:Well, the first one you have is, I mean, you would think it would be pretty self explanatory. Right? You would think having the actual flight time you need. But you wrote it down, so I'm guessing it is a common thing that you add up the time and it's just... It's not there.
Speaker 1:Or maybe an endorsement's missing. I remember hearing stories of like, oh, your CFI actually never signed this endorsement or the CFI did this endorsement wrong. You're like, crap. At Ohio State, it was good because your CFI was usually there. So you just walked down the aisle and you're like, dude, you gotta sign this.
Speaker 1:Right. But talk a little about having the flight time and what you've seen.
Speaker 2:The biggest thing here with the flight time is, you know, and these kind of first two points are are really making sure that the checkride gets to start. Right? And these are these are non negotiables before we even start the oral portion. And so for the flight time, this is a really big thing I see happen a lot because there are such specific categories and breakdowns of flight time requirements, whether that's for private instrument, commercial, CFI, anything. You know, there are certain breakdowns of total time, PIC time, nighttime.
Speaker 2:And unfortunately, we have a lot of instances where we get to the point, we start going through the logbook and we're a little bit short, right? We're short on nighttime or we're short on cross country time or the private pilot long cross country solo was 140 miles instead of 150 miles. And we catch those things and it's not necessarily for lack of desire by the applicant or the instructor. They go in of course thinking, hey, I'm ready to go. But it usually is some other circumstance that caused this.
Speaker 2:A lot of times what I see is when an applicant's training footprint takes a little, maybe call it longer than we'll say average, maybe life got in the way. Right? You you got a new job, you went to a new school, you had a kid and and your flight training has gone over time. Now it's it's allowed that opportunity for error to get in your logbook and maybe you didn't catch something before. And the other big one that I see too is, and it's just a nature of what our industry is, you go through a flight training footprint and you have multiple instructors throughout that.
Speaker 2:Maybe your first instructor gets their fifteen hundred hours and they go off to the airlines and now the next instructor is kind of picking up the pieces and finishing you to your checkride and although they have the best intention and try to go through that, they might not have fully seen what the other instructor did. So now come to checkride time and we get to a point where we're short on flight time. And really, you know, the best advice for this is both the instructor and the applicant, you know, before we meet, before I show up, is having them go through line by line on the requirements and their logbook and saying, okay, can I prove this flight time in my logbook somewhere? And one of the best pieces of advice that I have for this is really just being organized with it, having a nice clean logbook. It's, you know, you're a private pilot.
Speaker 2:Make sure you start, you know, good logbook habits when you only have twenty hours. When you start doing that at two thousand hours, it's a lot to to to backpace and, you know, for the checkrides that I... It is. And and for the check rides that I go into and they say that, you know, they have their logbook and they've got little sticky notes and tabs, that makes the world of difference because that shows me that they've gone through and they've found it so it should make my job easier and we're not probably going to find some sort of surprise that we don't want to have. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And ultimately, if like I said in the article, if there is something that's not met, you know, our industry, as we know, there's many things that are very black and white and if the time's not there, unfortunately the applicant isn't qualified and we can't even start the checkride. So that's a big bummer for everybody. I want to do the checkride for them. They want to get it done but now we can't even start it because we're we're short on time or distance or some form of that that flight time.
Speaker 1:And one thing about your logbooks too, I just want you to know, when you go to apply for a major airline like, American United, Delta, Southwest, whatever it is... Oh, excuse me. My number... The number one thing that they told me is they wanna see clean logbooks and well presented logbooks. So it matters as you go on.
Speaker 1:You know, you might get sloppy, you know, you're doing aerial photography, you're doing freight. It's like still keep as clean of a logbook as you can. And I highly highly recommend... Paper's great, start with paper. But also, even if you just keep, a numbers or an excel sheet, just keep some kind of online or computer document so you can easily put it into whatever, Cordyne or Log 10 Pro or Garmin or whatever you use for your logbook because it'll make your life so much easier.
Speaker 1:And you can... You're gonna make mistakes if you're trying to put fifteen hundred hours into an excel sheet later. So try to keep up with that as you can and it's very important to have it very clean. And when you go to apply, they want all of your logbooks. When I applied for for my one twenty one job, they wanted my first logbook I ever made, they wanted my last log, they wanted everything and in between and anything I've ever logged.
Speaker 1:And same thing you said, they want to know if you passed your checkride, where was the checkride? And they wanna see endorsements. They want it all nice, pretty, and and cool. So make sure you're keeping keeping up with your logbook. So it doesn't change from your private checkride all the way up to your interview for your major airline.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:And the next one you have is, the aircraft must be airworthy. Now, again, you would assume that, yes, this would be a thing, but from talking to other either DPEs or other instructors, there's a lot of small things that you don't think of, like placards that aren't in there for maybe an STC. There's a lot of things that you can kind of miss, especially if it's not your airplane and if it's a flight school airplane.
Speaker 2:Right. Right. Absolutely. And and I think the biggest thing I always try to think about from this perspective is when I or another examiner, when we show up, on Checkrite Day, there's a very good potential that we have never seen that airplane before or we've never flown in that airplane. Now, a lot of the regular places I go to, regular flight schools, I do see all those over and over.
Speaker 2:But from from that perspective, I want to make sure just for my own, you know, security and safety that that I'm getting in an airplane that is airworthy and legal and safe. And from an FAA standpoint, we're required to check it as well. So this is just as important, as making sure all of your flight time is, is there as well. And really what that boils down to is making sure that again, you as the applicant can prove that all of the required inspections and all the required paperwork is there. That includes airworthiness certificate, registration, weight and balance, operating handbook, all that stuff to make sure, okay, yep, this airplane is checking all the boxes to ensure we're legal and airworthy to go fly.
Speaker 2:That is, that's really one of the biggest things that I run into with, newer flight schools is, you know, that they have maybe a status sheet, right? And the status sheet says, yep, the annual was done on this date and you know, and it's printed out maybe on Excel or Microsoft Word and I say, okay, but you know, we need to be able to prove that, right? Whoever was going on the computer entry, I know I can easily fat finger a keyboard all day long and you know, so if that data is wrong, then now we're going off of potentially bad information and so to see those sign offs from the AMP or the IA on the annual, the hundred hour inspection, your airworthiness direct directives. You know, if you're flying a Cessna aircraft or a Piper aircraft, I guarantee there are recurring airworthiness directives that need to be complied with and need to be shown in there. And if we can't find those items in the aircraft log books or the records that they provide, it's again saying, okay, this aircraft is, you know, it might have just went and flown, but we can't deem it airworthy based on this review right here, right now.
Speaker 2:So we can't even start the checkride.
Speaker 1:Dang. That... I mean, yeah. I mean, I remember going to my checkride. It's like, alright, where is the VOR check?
Speaker 1:Where is all this? And it's just Right. It's something that you you... You're so focused on what you have done. Right?
Speaker 1:Like, hopefully, you focus on your time. Hopefully, you focus on how much you have studied. And I feel like it can be overlooked on the actual airplane itself. Or let's say the airplane you wanted to fly, the battery died. So now you have to go to backup number two, which plane you haven't flown as much.
Speaker 1:Might have a different AD. You might have something else that you just need to make sure it checks out. Right. So there's a lot to look at, and I agree. And even here talking about, you know, your safety and you've seen...
Speaker 1:Sometimes you've never seen this airplane before. You and I both know what it's like at big flight schools. There's always that one airplane that you're like, oh, man. I do not wanna fly this airplane. Right.
Speaker 1:Are there Right. Any airplanes that you're just like, absolutely not. I will not fly this airplane. I would not be on this checkride.
Speaker 2:You know, to to this point, maybe ask me this at the end of my career, I probably have a different answer for that. But at this point, no. Everything, everything all kind of sits about the same level, you know. And and a lot of that really does go into making sure it is qualified, making sure, okay, all the paperwork is up to speed, making sure that, you know, and it's kind of funny when we go through the preflight portion of the test. I'm watching the applicant preflight the airplane, but subliminally, I'm also doing my own preflight of the airplane taking a look at it maybe from a different perspective.
Speaker 2:So yeah, there's nothing that's really caught my eye yet. The only thing that and definitely some examiners may stray away from this is looking at experimental aircraft, right? You have a home built aircraft. That's a little different picture, right? And again, there's no reason why that can't be just as safe or not safer than, you know, as a traditionally certified built aircraft.
Speaker 2:But it might just take a little different eye of saying, Hey, let's talk about what's the history of this airplane. Let's what's, you know, what's the latest condition inspection on this aircraft? But that's, you know, because that's the only kind of part where you're maybe getting a little different than the norm. The only other one that kind of goes along those lines is vintage aircraft. I've done a handful of check rides in 1946, 1942, Taylor Crafts and, you know, tail wheel aircraft that don't have electrical systems and they're fabric airplanes, know, they're, they're, again, they're, they're maintained, they're safe, they're airworthy of course, but they're, they're getting up there in age.
Speaker 2:And so it just takes you to kind of look at from maybe just a little different perspective to make sure, okay, yep, everything still is good here and I feel comfortable going to hop in that airplane and go fly for a couple hours.
Speaker 1:When you're doing a check ride on a plane that doesn't really even have electrical, are you supposed to ask them about electrical system on the airplane then? Is that just one thing you don't have to talk
Speaker 2:about anymore? Like, sure. And we we get to skip that task which is which is nice. Yeah, we get to we get to talk generalities of of other systems but but yeah, that we kind of talk about their their specific airplane that they've brought. And a lot of that typically is kind of getting into the sport pilot world where, you know, where where that's kind of a different world in in itself, so.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's funny. Yeah. So go with, don't go with the the high power, the new technology. Go with the oldest, dumbest plane you can find. Right.
Speaker 1:Get less questions on your world.
Speaker 2:Simple as better. Yep.
Speaker 1:Yep. Yeah. Alright. The next part you have is know your numbers.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So this is this is really important, especially as we continue to evolve and advance into technology, right, with EFBs and apps that can do everything for us, essentially. The biggest piece on this is whatever you come into your checkride with, whatever you've prepared, that's your, maybe you your weight and balance or a cross country nav log or takeoff and landing distances, naturally somewhere in there, there's going to be numbers that calculated and being able to explain what they are and how either you got them or how your device got them. And that's really a big thing because it only shows your knowledge of the subject, but it shows your knowledge how to do it in the event you have to do it again or you have to do it on the fly. If you get up in the air and you have to...
Speaker 2:If your iPad dies, right, or your EFB dies, we want to talk about what's plan B look like? How if you needed to calculate something or you needed to navigate, how are we going to do it without that? So being able to and I think in the article I say, hey, cruising at 2,300 RPM, right, that's one of my favorite ones because in in and I know I was probably victim to this and my instructors taught me and I probably taught students, know, hey, we cruise the Cessna 172 at 2,300 RPM. We say, well, why is that? Well, that's just what we always do here, right?
Speaker 2:Yes, that works generally but, you know, we wanna know why that is. Right? Because, okay, if I go into my POH and I can see that's 65 or 75% horsepower and that's gonna yield me a certain speed and and fuel flow for my cross country, that's really what we're looking for, take that one step deeper and knowing why you're choosing the things that you're choosing. And like I said, we don't necessarily need to see you calculate it a 100% perfectly. Of course, ideally we want that, but, you know, we're not looking, you know, we're not a math teacher, right?
Speaker 2:This isn't a math test, but we're looking to make sure that your process is the way that you should be doing it to get accurate numbers for the flight that you're doing.
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Speaker 1:What... Are they still doing paper plotting? Is that something that's required? Are they supposed to paper plot a check or a cross country?
Speaker 2:The the requirement is not there for paper. Okay. And and the requirements that we have really are are kind of twofold. We have to test both Pilot Edge and Dead Reckoning and we also have to we also have to test usage of onboard equipment, right? That could be iPads, that could be an onboard GPS.
Speaker 2:So if it's in the aircraft, you need to know how to use it. And but we also have to test Pilot Agent Dead Reckoning and that can be a couple of different ways and the ACS does allow, you know, they call it, you know, computer aided or computer, you know, type which is basically your EFB or your iPad type of thing and that's absolutely fine. But our questions change just a little bit. You're using paper and you're pulling numbers off a sectional chart, sure, we're going to talk about, you know, lines of isogonic variation, right? And we're going to talk about your course and all that stuff.
Speaker 2:We're going to ask, how do you know that this chart is valid and current? But now when we go to an EFB, know, if we're using Garmin or ForeFlight or whatever your favorite is, you know, the questions kind of turn into, how do you make sure that that app is current? How do you make sure that your databases and charts are current? How do you make sure, know, how do you know this this number that it gave you at the very end? What is that?
Speaker 2:Is that accounting for wind? Is that accounting for variation? So our questions change a little bit to accomplish the same goal and the same task, but it might be just done a little bit differently.
Speaker 1:Man, I haven't paper plotted in forever and just hearing these conversations and like, it would've been nice to do all my check cards about paper plotting, you know. Right. Right. It's a valuable skill to learn. I mean, I say valuable, I would never use it again now where you just plug it in and go.
Speaker 1:But I feel like being able to do that helps you out with a little bit of understanding of how even the the... Your actual Garmin Pilot works, you know? So I think it's definitely very helpful. Because like you said, you asked the same question, it's just a little bit different. Right.
Speaker 1:Exactly. That's cool. Yeah, man. So e six b's don't have to spin the wheel anymore, don't have to do... I remember that e six b, we're using calculators instead of actually e six b and I was like, oh, this is so Right.
Speaker 1:Cool.
Speaker 2:Right. It is it is evolving very quickly and and there's still plenty of people and and instructors in in flight schools and I definitely applaud it because it is, I think, fundamentally, it teaches great, great solid skills and they show up with the E6B and the chart and the plotter and they can explain that thing top to bottom and I really do applaud that because that is the core fundamental skill that we're trying to get to. Yeah. You know, and then if they choose to move on and use technology to their advantage later on, then more power to them because now they have that base knowledge. It's kind of like learning on a steam gauge six pack airplane and then transitioning to a G1000.
Speaker 2:You really you get maybe just a little bit different respect instead of maybe doing that transition the opposite way.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I I don't... I remember doing my private, it was pretty much like the first year that ForeFlight Garmin Pilot were kind of a thing. Mhmm. And Ohio State was kind of more of just like do paper paper paper paper paper.
Speaker 1:So I didn't really use this. Everything was all paper at first. And then when I went back to North Carolina to finish everything else, was just like iPad everything. I was like, oh my gosh, this is the best thing ever. Yes.
Speaker 1:So, I mean, kudos to you if you can still pull out a paper chart in your e six b and spin it and do what you need to do. But that's awesome. Love it for you. Think your flight instructor really helped you. You probably had an old old school flight instructor, that's probably what it is.
Speaker 1:Alright. The fourth one you have is don't... Excuse me. The fourth one you have is don't force the flight.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And this is something that is is really tough and I do see it happen more often than not, where we have a situation and ideally, again, of course ideal situation is and the FAA really pushes us to make sure that this happens, that the flight and the oral portion happen successively, right? They happen on the same day we finish the oral, we go into the flight. We really cannot and should not be going into this, planning on doing the oral on day one and the flight on day two. And now, so we usually have good weather days which we're doing checkrides on, but in that event where things change, right?
Speaker 2:I live in Ohio, you know, and weather changes on an instance. So we have a good forecast, we have a good day plan, we get into the oral portion, we finish that and come out and now that wind sock is really starting to dance a little bit. Yeah. And this is a tough call because it is testing the applicant's judgment call and their decision making and their ADM that, again, we just go back to the oral portion. We just talked about all those skills and those personal minimums that they have for themselves and now we get out to the flight portion and this is a very real world type of external pressure situation where the pilot says, Alright, you know, I want to get my checkride done.
Speaker 2:I've been waiting maybe a long time to get to this point. I put a lot of money and training and time into this but it's getting on the point of maybe a little too uncomfortable or maybe too high of a crosswind and, you know, and as the examiner, I can't really intervene there. I need to see their decision making process. I need to see their steps that they're going to say, Okay, whether this is my go or no go decision. I have no skin in the game at that point.
Speaker 2:They want to discontinue and say, Let's go do this another day, I say, Okay, that's great. If they want to say, Let's go, I say, All right, well, let's buckle up and let's go fly. And unfortunately what happens in those situations is they... If an applicant chooses to force that flight and they go fly and maybe the weather isn't ideal, maybe it's super turbulent, maybe it's really windy or there's a crosswind, they go out there and they fly and they do generally well, but there's probably one thing in there that's not going to go the way they want. They get down there and they try to do a short field landing and because they've got a 10 knot crosswind, now they're not performing the way they would do on another otherwise normal day and that might have put them outside the standard.
Speaker 2:And so, you know, I hate to see that happen because it probably could have been avoidable had there been maybe a little more forethought into that decision making process to go fly on a day that maybe they shouldn't have, especially on a checkride day. There's tell applicants, there are so many things going through your head on checkride day and there's so many distractions and things going on and part of that is normal. So why do we want to add on to that? If you're so worried about ceilings or visibility or winds or turbulence, that that isn't a factor that we want to try to throw on top of this mix already. And sometimes it happens and, you know, and applicants don't perform the way that they thought they were going to and unfortunately then, you know, we we have a conversation that nobody likes to have.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And I wonder if, you know, recently, like we talked about earlier with the DP shortage and how there's really been a need to DPs. I mean, I've heard stories of people waiting. You gotta, like, you you sign up for your PPL and they're like, alright, put your check right already because that's Right. Just what you have to do.
Speaker 1:So I'm guessing that adds a lot of stress as well because now you're like, alright, I had to wait two months for this check ride. If I don't do the flight now, I I don't know how much longer I'm at the wait because you're busy, you got check rides booked up, you didn't anticipate a two day check ride. Right? Right. So I mean, there's just a lot that goes into this and I'm sure that this adds extra stress.
Speaker 1:I've heard of people flying to different cities and going out of state to do check rides and you gotta get a hotel, when can they come back, how do you get back. Right. So it's like that could really kind of put you in a bind when you're making this decision and you'd probably be like, alright, well, 10 knots is really what I felt comfortable with for a check ride, but now it's gusting to 15. That's a direct crosswind like or just a little bit bump like, do I still do this? And I feel like the majority of people would be like, yeah, I have to do it and they just hope it works out.
Speaker 1:But like you said, this is their opportunity to to show you that they can make proper decision making because there's not gonna be a time where you're gonna have an instructor to tell you this is what you should do. There's gonna be a time when you have to go fly. Whether you're doing it on your own with your family in the back of the plane, you have cargo or people, you're gonna have to make these decisions and it's very beneficial to learn how to make these hard decisions early in your career.
Speaker 2:Right. Well, and like you said, there's so many factors that go into that that check right there. Whether where they went, where they came from, the training, all that. And and that's a very great, you know, kind of mirrored reflection of what the rest of their career potentially might be in aviation. Like you said, they're...
Speaker 2:You're gonna be put in these situations probably every day for the rest of your career where you have to make a best judgment call based off the information and the set of circumstances that you have and typically, you know, the one that's going to benefit, you know, you and your safety and your ultimate success is going to be the right one. It might not be the easiest one, it might be a very difficult one and Mhmm. Difficult conversations and accommodations might need to change, but ultimately that is probably the one that's going to lead you down a successful path.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Absolutely. And I always say, I preach it in the podcast, is learning how to say no is one of the best tools you'll ever have in your toolkit. And it might lead to a difficult conversation, it might lead to you going up and training with your chief pilot or an instructor just to feel more comfortable. But learning how to say no and just take the breath and be like, alright, I wanna be on the ground right now.
Speaker 1:I don't wanna make a bad decision. It's really... It could save your life, it could save your career, it could save your ticket, it could save a lot of things. So learning is absolutely beneficial in this career.
Speaker 2:100%.
Speaker 1:And number five, we have don't force the landing. Again, this is a... I mean, this... I feel like you need to take with your career as far as you go. Go around.
Speaker 1:Airlines are preaching it, corporate operations are preaching it. It's like go around, just go around, do it again. Like there's no reason to force it, be as stable as you can possibly be. And I'm sure in the Czech ride, you are probably just laser locked on, I have to do this by that number, by this spot, and you you can't... You kinda fail to to look outside and be like, alright, well, the winds, we're losing speed here, they did...
Speaker 1:There's a jet that just landed in front of me, you know, there's so many things that go on to that checkride landing. So, talk a little about your fifth one.
Speaker 2:Yeah. This is this is huge and, you know, and we see it every day, unfortunately, you know, in the news is that you see another airplane, whether that's a corporate jet, an airline, or something where they're having some sort of runway excursion or some sort of issue on landing where, you you know, you see another airplane go off the end and, you know, and a lot of those scenarios are because that was probably an approach or landing that shouldn't have been an approach or landing.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And this habit really starts, you know, in forming good habits starts right here in your private pilot or your kind of your initial phases of training and your check rides. Like you said, it happens a lot where an applicant gets very focused on the task at hand, right? I have to do a power off 180 or I to do a short fill landing and I'm going to hit it on the thousand foot marks and we just start that tunnel vision comes in and everything that your instructors taught you all the way up to that point just kind of goes out the window and we lead a approach or a landing into somewhere that it shouldn't be. And that unfortunately, you know, usually ends up outside of the standard set by the ACS or the PT or the PTS. And then, you know, it's something that is so completely avoidable because as examiners, we cannot knock you for making a good safe decision.
Speaker 2:If you say, hey, I'm going to go around, I can't say, no, that wasn't smart, right? You know, in the article we talked about that, you know, and the ACS really has and I think it's something that maybe not a lot of people kind of read all the way down to the bottom of the skills for these landings to notice that it says, if that landing cannot be made within the within the standards, within the tolerances in a safe and appropriate manner to, you know, initiate a timely go around. And so it says it right there in the black and white text that says, hey, you can do this and not be penalized for it. Especially for a normal crosswind, short field or soft field landing that, hey, you know, we're recognizing, okay, if it's, you know, if it's in your in your wheelhouse and your option to not land, then definitely take that option. Don't try to force the landing.
Speaker 2:And the only exception to that is the power off one eighty on the commercial That's that's a tough part. And there, you know, prior to recent, there used to be some different interpretation on that because there wasn't necessarily clear guidance on what that was. Some people would say, sure, you get to go around because you made a good safe call and come try it again. Some people would say, nope, it's a power off one eighty, right? You're, you know, if you don't make it, you're done.
Speaker 2:Then the most revision, recent revision of the commercial ACS, the FAA did specifically clarify and they said, Okay, in the event that an applicant either is outside the tolerances or they choose to elect a self elected go around, that that is unsatisfactory for the Power Off 180 because it goes against kind of what we are trying to test there and it is a powerless precision landing.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And you know, having a go around in real life, you don't necessarily have the option on that type of event. Yeah. Now, as an examiner, as a pilot, of course, I'm going to say, hey, you know, great job, kudos for making a good safe call, right? And I don't want to start porpoising and wheelbarrowing down the runway just as much as anybody. So Yeah.
Speaker 2:So good job on going around. Unfortunately, the ACS for the Power F one eighty doesn't give us the the leeway to, you know, take that as so far as saying you you passed that task item. But but all your other landings do. And and it's easy to go around and then say, you know what? I didn't like my airspeed, I didn't like my energy on that, I thought I was too high or the crosswind got out of hand, so I went around, here's what I'm going to do on the next one, I'm going to carry maybe a little extra speed or I'm going to be a little more configured and stabilized farther out.
Speaker 2:And then when they do that, they typically go around and and they and they nail it on the next one. And and that's really what we're looking to see.
Speaker 1:You know, it's been so long since I've had to do a power off one eighty. Is this something you let them choose when they wanna do it or are you just like, alright, power off one eighty, let's go. And pull pull the power.
Speaker 2:I... You know, so we typically, structure that as an examiner saying, here's kind of the plan, here's what we're going to do. You know, even as an examiner, I I particularly don't even like the power off one eighty because I know it's such a big risk, big reward type of maneuver, right? And the and the tolerances are so clear cut and dry that there's there's no room for interpretation there. So even I get a little, you know, clenched up and nervous when we're doing the maneuver because I know what's...
Speaker 2:What the stakes are and what's riding on that. Typically, you know, what I like to, you know, do is is we'll we'll do a couple other landings, right? Maybe we'll do a short field landing or soft landing prior to that. So at least the applicant knows what's going on. We're not just throwing it to him right off the get go.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Warm up a little bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly. Right. You know, and and I think that's a a fair way of of recognizing the high stakes of the tolerances and Yeah. But also being fair to the applicant.
Speaker 1:Yep. Absolutely. I'd agree. And my... Wasn't the Power off Natives my least favorite?
Speaker 1:My least favorite in all the maneuvers I've ever had to do were eights on pylons. I don't know why. I just... I think it was just because it's such a judgment call. Winds change, just...
Speaker 1:If you pick bad points, it's it's over. Like, you Right. You fail it. So I mean, it was just like Right. The stress of having to pick out those two points.
Speaker 1:I don't know why. It just always got in my head and thankfully when it came time for the checkride, it wasn't an issue. But Yeah. You know, I was... I remember just the only thing I was ever worried about was just like pick two good points.
Speaker 1:Please pick Right. Two good points.
Speaker 2:Right. Absolutely. Absolutely. The commercial checkride definitely ups ups the ante a bit on on everything and and and rightly so because we're we're looking to make sure you've gone from a private pilot level and skill and knowledge to something that can now be, you know, a paid professional. So Yeah.
Speaker 2:So the the stakes are up there but, know, it it it definitely does feel a little more of a daunting checkride overall.
Speaker 1:It was actually my favorite checkride I ever did. I don't know why. I was flying a... I was flying an arrow. It wasn't Ohio State's arrow, so it like a nice arrow.
Speaker 1:It started really fast. It was great. But it... I I don't know if I just got a ton of time in it or just did a bunch of cross countries in that bad boy, but felt so comfortable. Killed it.
Speaker 1:He was like, dude, do feel so... I can tell you feel comfortable in this plane. Was like, I do. Right. This is awesome.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. Yeah. And we're talking about powerful eighties. You and I both have an experience, unfortunately, of having to land with no engine in in an air. No, we're not talking about gliders.
Speaker 1:Both had engine failures. We both have had to land. Mine was with another buddy at Ohio State, we're flying Midwest Aerial Photography. We landed in West Virginia, borderline mountain, hilly area. You, on the other hand, landed on Lakeshore Drive, if I'm not mistaken, correct?
Speaker 2:Right. Right. Yeah. And and you know, it's it's funny how these things that you don't ever want to have happen seem to happen in the most undesirable places. Right?
Speaker 2:True. And and that's The worst.
Speaker 1:And that's...
Speaker 2:Right. And that just goes to illustrate how prepared we need to be to execute when the timing is not necessarily convenient to us, but when we're not left with a choice. And Yeah. And yeah, that was, you know, like you said, in in West Virginia over the mountains or over Downtown Chicago. Neither which are the wide open fields like we were trained in in Ohio.
Speaker 2:Right? So, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's like, where are gonna land? Literally anywhere. Literally anywhere. Right.
Speaker 1:There's no cars on this road. You chose one of the busiest roads in all of Chicago, Not by choice... Well, by choice, but because it's the only place you probably could've landed. So... Right.
Speaker 1:Right. And I won't say his name, but in the other buddy I was flying with, we landed on the only patch of dirt that we could find. And it's funny you said that they usually happen in places where you're like, this is a bad place to happen. And I remember my buddy and I both, we told each other, like, we both had the same thought, like, two minutes before it happened, well, this is a terrible place to be if your engine fails. And then Right.
Speaker 1:Two minutes later, boom, done. It ate itself. Right. It's like, shit. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Similar similar situation with you. Do you know what actually happened to airplane?
Speaker 2:So in in our situation, we actually, it was thankfully a very easy part of an... Of the investigation where the throttle cable broke off of the carburetor. So the engine itself was perfectly good. Green needles, green everything. However, we had absolutely zero way to control the engine.
Speaker 2:In that particular situation, it instead of going to say full throttle, which happens in other aircraft, this one just went back to idle power. So when the throttle cable broke, natural engine vibrations, the throttle or the carburetor basically went back to idle and so we were sitting there at 12 or 1,300 RPM all the way down and without any way to control it.
Speaker 1:Did you have did you have kind of a moment where you're like, you know, you're kind of like with the Sully thing where like five seconds of just like, holy crap, this is happening right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I... And I would probably even go as far as saying it's probably even more than five seconds. Yeah. Right?
Speaker 2:You always think about kind of that human reaction time of of one, taking all the information in to understand what's happening. That's that's probably maybe the first ten seconds and then after that, the next ten seconds are kind of that realization moment of saying, okay, this is happening to us right now, you know, what does our course of events look like? How are we going to handle this? And then you start kind of taking the action steps. So, you know, I was with, you know, my now wife, you know, we were dating at the time, when this happened and, know, but you start to think about all those things, right?
Speaker 2:You're thinking about who else is in the airplane with you. Yeah. And so you have that, you have that startle factor, then you have that realization factor and then kind of then kind of gets into the, okay, here we go. Let's start let's start getting to work and and getting this airplane safely on the ground. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And it... With as little as impact as possible, you know, to everything.
Speaker 1:And then just luckily enough, there was kind of a lull in traffic and you're able to land there or the cars have to kind of like move out of the way?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Justin. It was it was 3PM on a Friday in Chicago, you know, so it was it was not ideal. And and, you know, of course, we saw a handful of other of other things along the way. My my wife is also a pilot which was Yeah. Super helpful having another like in your scenario, you you have you have two people on the airplane, man, that just it it takes the the workload down so much and just having an extra set of eyes and ears saying, Okay, let's look for places to land.
Speaker 2:We had other options that weren't great options at all, right? Beaches or going in Lake Michigan or a baseball field, you know, things that very likely and the ultimate kind of test that I looked at is what is going to be the best survivability as far as landing, you know, and in my opinion, that was something as flat as possible. And so when, we didn't initially think about North Sea, Lakeshore Drive underneath us, even though it was glaringly right underneath us until we declared an emergency, talked with Midway Tower and when we obviously couldn't make it as far as Chicago Midway, he said, Can you go on to Lakeshore Drive? And kind of then at that point looked down and said, oh, yeah, all right, you know, it's long, it's flat, it's it's generally probably going to be the most survivable thing that we can land on. And so yeah, 3PM on a Friday, it didn't really work that, you know, into the equation but I think looking back in those moments, you know, you have a little bit of a blackout moment, right, when it actually happens.
Speaker 2:But Sure. Looking back now, I think what probably happened is as we came into traffic, those that cars that were behind us saw it unfold and stopped, and those that were ahead of us kept going. So it created a bit of a natural part, which allowed us to land in in a relatively short distance and get it stopped.
Speaker 1:Was this during the Chicago airshow or, like, right before? Right?
Speaker 2:This was this was probably before. Was end... It was coming home from EAA AirVenture. Right? So it was end of July, you know, it was right before Lollapalooza was going on.
Speaker 2:So all... Every... You the whole city is kind of on heightened, you know, awareness of everything happening. So, yeah, it was, yeah, mid summer there.
Speaker 1:What a time, dude. What a time. Who was the first person that came? Was it just some Chicago and was like, dude, what the heck? You lay...
Speaker 1:You can't lay here.
Speaker 2:Right. Shockingly enough, there was a a Chicago police officer
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Who was maybe a quarter mile up the road
Speaker 1:Oh, wow.
Speaker 2:And and saw the whole thing happen. So by the time we got down, stopped and got out of the airplane, probably within maybe ten seconds, He and his his cruiser were right at the tail of our airplane blocking traffic, keeping, you know, the scene safe and because our biggest issue, you know, that we were worried about now that we just survived this airplane, you know, incident being on a highway and didn't damage or touch anything, our biggest fear was now getting rear ended by by somebody, you know, driving down the highway. So he was he was great, he was on it, you know, and that's and then the rest of it unfold.
Speaker 1:Remember what he said to you, like when you when you guys got out the plane?
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's just it's just first thing was, are you guys okay? You know, and I'm sure there are some, you know, expletives in there, you know, oh my gosh type of thing but but yeah, his first thing was, you guys okay? And, you know, that's kind of when we both looked, you know, kind of up and down at each other and said, Yeah, yeah, we are. And you know, took a quick peek at the airplane and the airplane was completely untouched.
Speaker 2:We didn't hit a thing, you know, by just, you know, whatever, miracle, grace of God, whatever you want to call it. I mean, we we were completely untouched and unfazed. Yeah. And and so that was that was the first, you know, hurdle.
Speaker 1:How'd you guys get the plane off of Lakeshore Drive?
Speaker 2:Very carefully. Yeah. So the first the first piece was getting it off the actual road and getting it into the median, so that way they continue to open up traffic and we did that and then ultimately what ended up happening was we were able to take both wings off the airplane. And after everything was secured and the FAA was, you know, of course satisfied with, you know, pictures and making sure everything was preserved the way they needed to from an investigation standpoint. We were able to take both wings off the aircraft and roll it right up onto a big flatbed truck and then they took it to an airport, put it in a secured hangar so that way it could be, you know, investigated later on.
Speaker 1:Dude, I wish you could have taken off off Lake Shore Drive. Just leave it Yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't. You know, it was... That was enough. Was that was absolutely So...
Speaker 1:Yeah. You have enough of a story to tell. You're right.
Speaker 2:Right. Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah. If only Meg's was there. If only they had an airport downtown, you know.
Speaker 2:We've heard that. We've heard that many times Yeah. And on that day and afterward because where we were when when the engine let loose was directly over top of where the the, you know, former mixed field sat that would have been ultimately convenient. But nonetheless, nonetheless, you know, it's one of those things that, you know, in aviation where we say kind of there's, you know, when you have those types of events, there's those that have and likely those that will in their career. You you and I, I think, you know, fortunately or unfortunately probably had our hopeful one and done, you know, in the beginning of our careers and hopefully Yeah.
Speaker 2:Hopefully we lead, you know, careers that don't have anything that exciting, you know, moving forward. But it definitely is something that you kind of take into your your skill set and your... The way you view life moving forward.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. And talk about this last thing last before we go, But was there any fear of getting back in an airplane, you know? It's like up to there, you always hear about things happening and you know, you always like know that it's a possibility, but when it actually happens, it's different. And I feel like your mind gets kind of rewired and changes just a little bit with airplanes.
Speaker 1:Whether you respect them more, whether you think about the worst case scenario more often. But was there any fear at all getting back in the airplane for the first time?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I... And I'll be the first to admit that, that there is there's hesitation, you know. You say, okay, you know, I... All that kind of naivety that you had as a pilot saying, oh, these things won't happen, right?
Speaker 2:Or, you know, you know, just kind of go fly and have fun. That naivety is now gone, right? Welcome to the, you know, the real world and, you know, for both me and my wife now, mean, you know, like I said, we were dating, you know, very early on. She had just become a private pilot about two weeks And prior to that so, for both of us, there was absolutely a level of trepidation getting back into an airplane, probably more so her than me because I was at that point, I was a working, you know, professional pilot, right? I didn't necessarily have a choice in if I wanted to continue getting a paycheck.
Speaker 2:But, you know, from her perspective, oh my gosh, two weeks into becoming a private pilot and probably one of the worst things happens, you know, that's a very big hurdle to overcome. And so we took of course took a little a little time off. But what we did is we said, you know, Okay, we have to get back into this. We actually did two things. One, we went and got one of the airplanes at Ohio State, we hopped in it and we went and flew around Columbus for an hour just to say we did, right?
Speaker 2:We got in the airplane, we took off by our own accord, we landed by our own accord, just to prove to ourselves, okay, that was doable and that was a huge step. And then the next thing we did, is I... And this was a bold move on my part, but I actually bought her a introductory flight in a glider. And and so we went and I went with her as well and we both flew a glider. And that was a little bit more kind of, again, mind over matter saying, Okay, look, airplanes fly all day long with no engines and they go up and they come back and there's no issue.
Speaker 2:And that was definitely a great, you know, and very rewarding, very cool thing to do, just to be able to say, okay, look, this this was a great way to also learn about energy management all that and it just enhanced our skill and and here we are today, you know, continuing to fly, both professional pilots and and, you know, it's it's something that's definitely always on our mind, it's in the rearview mirror.
Speaker 1:Yep. And I agree. I think the best thing to do is maybe it's best take a day or two off, but get back in the airplane as fast as you can because the longer you take, the harder it's gonna be to get out of your head and get out of your mind. And then the last thing I have is how did you log that flight? Did you say like took off from Oshkosh, landed LSD, Lakeshore Drive?
Speaker 2:We did. We did. Yeah. You know, it's funny you say that. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because I pay, you know, flight time is flight time. Right? You're you're logging it. So Yeah. So yeah, we, you know, I had the departure airport and and in my logbook, you know, we put LSD.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's funny because then you gotta you gotta put that into some sort of electronic logbook nowadays and put an LSD and it doesn't recognize it of course as an airport. Yeah. But but it makes it makes for, an interesting story,
Speaker 1:of course. Yeah. You know, I I said like side of mountain on mine. Right. So...
Speaker 1:Yep. Yep. So, yeah, the interview is like, what is the side of mountain? It's like, oh, yeah. That's my...
Speaker 1:Blah blah blah. Yeah. And the FAA came out for us. They said no incident. It was no accident.
Speaker 1:They didn't really do an investigation. They're like, look, this engine ate itself. You had oil, you had fuel, and you guys landed in the only place you could possibly land. They said this is gonna be a great interview story for you to tell and that was it.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Yeah. That was very... It was very similar with our case, you know. It was a true, just a mechanical failure of Yeah.
Speaker 2:Of that attach point, right? Where where the the throttle cable meets the carburetor and and it was very similar. Yeah. You know, they kind of opened the coiling, they saw the throttle cable dangling there and if I closed the cowling and said, Okay, well, you know, great job. There was no other, you know, damage or accident or, you know, or injury or anything like that and, you know, very, very fortunately, you know, those are the easy situations to kind of work through.
Speaker 2:Even as we worked with first responders that day, I mean, they said it's very rare that they show up to some sort of event with an aircraft where they're talking to the people. Yeah. And and so to have that is is a a great blessing, you know, on a number of fronts.
Speaker 1:Yeah. The, I say mountain man because it felt like he was a West Virginia mountain man. I mean, no disrespect. If you were there, you would call them a mountain man too. But he was like, I saw your airplane coming and he like drove on the side of the mountain, got around a gate, almost toppled over.
Speaker 1:He's like, I thought I was gonna see a big fireball and flame. I can't believe you guys are alive. So same thing he had, you know. He's like, I thought you guys were dead. But Yeah.
Speaker 1:Hopefully, that's not how it played out. But Alright. Johnny, thank you so much for coming on. I appreciate you part of this magazine, being a part of the podcast, and also go Buckeyes, man, you know.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Go Buckeyes. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I I owe.
Speaker 2:Happy to happy to help. Happy to contribute. Like I said, I think it's one of those things that it's great to to bring a little bit of spotlight to because it's something that no matter if you're a pilot or you're going to be a pilot, going through a check out is something everybody has to encounter at least one point or multiple times in And their so to be able to try to maybe take some of that stigma away and make, you know, some ways to make that a little bit more of a normal experience, so that way when I walk in the room, it's not big eyes and nerves, right? That's we we don't want that. So, yeah, if we can, you know, try to change the the tide on that Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's that's awesome. That's the goal. We want we want everybody to be successful at the end of the day.
Speaker 1:Checkrides don't ever stop. Right? Like, mean Right. As an airline pilot, as a corporate pilot, I'm still getting checkrides. Still get nervous.
Speaker 1:There's 64 year old pilots that are getting nervous for their last checkride in 01/21 just because it's true. Like, sometimes you're just like, they... You truly don't know what someone could ask that you could be like, oh my gosh, I can't remember. So, yeah. Checkrides are always gonna have some sort of nerves in there.
Speaker 1:And as you say in the article, it's good to have a little bit of nerves. But, Johnny, thank you so much for coming on. I appreciate your time and I think this is gonna be well received. So, hopefully, we'll do this again soon.
Speaker 2:Great. Thanks, Justin.
Speaker 1:Alright. That's a wrap on episode three seventy one. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. Send this to someone that has a check card coming up. Send this to anyone, you know, and also give me some feedback.
Speaker 1:Justin@PilotthePilotHQ.com. Check out the magazine. We're gonna be doing a bundle here soon, so we're gonna have a holiday bundle where you can get volumes one, two, three, and four shipped to you with those subscription. So go ahead and check that out. It'll probably be released on our website, or it will be released on Instagram.
Speaker 1:Unsure, but just be on the lookout for it. Even nation, check out the magazine. It's amazing. Thank you so much for listening. I appreciate your time.
Speaker 1:And as always, happy flying. The Pilot to Pilot podcast is brought to you by Ground School from the finer points, the indispensable training app for new and experienced pilots. Visit learnthefinerpoints.com backslash Justin to save 10% off your first year.