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Podcast for the Digital Literacies and 21st Century Skills course at Adelphi University's Educational Technology program.
Ricardo: All right. Hello. Welcome to our little podcast, Think of a Bubble. This is the first one out of many. I am Ricardo, your host. I am here with—
Alina: Hi, my name is Alina, and I am Ricardo's co-host.
Ricardo: So how you—so how you doing? How's your day so far? Like, right where I'm at, it's pretty rainy, pretty cloudy. Pretty—
Alina: Same. Same here. It's kind of depressing. After—we just had a couple, uh, preview of summer, but here we are.
Ricardo: I know, right? Like 70 degrees, and now we're back to like, what, 50? It's like winter again.
Alina: We went right back. I had the AC on. Now we're back to the...
Ricardo: All right. Yeah. Uh, so today we're gonna be talking about basically social media, but a sort of a different group revolving around, uh, a certain idol group, or idol groups as a whole—like singers and bands and stuff. Across the Pacific, we're gonna be talking about Korean pop singers, also known as K-Pop, and how social media is basically influenced around them, and how it basically constructs its own sort of identity, for lack of a better term.
Just for clarity's sake, do you know anything about K-Pop? Do you know anything about that type of group?
Alina: So I was reading the article—um, it's an online community on Twitter, um, and it makes it possible for people to communicate across different linguistic barriers. Um, and it seems like everyone in this online group, um, has something in common.
Ricardo: Yeah. I—so back on Twitter, like, uh, recently they basically, the, uh, mods—you can say the people who run it—tore down the walls of the language barrier. Technically speaking, they basically allow anyone across the whole world to chat on just like one social media post. So a lot of Americans are getting posts from people in Japan, and a lot of Japanese people are getting stuff from English posts. But now because of that, a lot of Korean fans who revolve around K-Pop are now chatting with Korean fans and also American fans too.
I just wanna ask—I already said this before, but do you know anything about K-Pop as a whole, or are you just brand new to it?
Alina: I am brand new to K-Pop.
Ricardo: All right. Uh, have you listened to, uh, BTS? I know, like, I know a couple of New York stations have been playing, like, uh, "Dynamite" or "Butter" from them. Do you know about those two songs?
Alina: Unfortunately, I do not.
Ricardo: Okay. So just, just the little background—BTS is kind of like the main group, like the, the highest, like number one off the charts, when we're talking about K-Pop. Like when K-Pop is brought up in conversation, people instantly think about BTS. Now, I don't know for sure what BTS is genuinely about, like—I don't know if it's like an acronym for something. Like, do you know Big Time Rush? BTR.
Alina: I do not.
Ricardo: Oh my God.
Alina: Sorry. I have a, I have a 15-year-old son who's on two basketball teams and I am never home.
Ricardo: Uh, okay. Wait—15?
Alina: Mm-hmm.
Ricardo: Oh, okay. That's nice. Uh, my god. I'm actually 22 years old. It's actually pretty crazy.
Alina: I had 'em young, but—
Ricardo: All right. Um, so—Big Time Rush—I don't know why I brought up Big Time Rush. Oh no, I do, because Big Time Rush is also known as BTR, but BTS is with an S. So just so we're not confused—replacing the R with the S—but anyway. So to basically say, BTS is the biggest K-Pop group that's getting popular overseas in America. And their fans are considered to be like Justin Bieber fans back in like 2013. Like, you know how crazy they were over this young kid going on stage—like, have you ever seen videos of those crazy fans?
Alina: Yes. Yes. That I have.
Ricardo: So when you think about that—like, I don't wanna steal the spotlight 'cause I'm already talking for so much. Sorry for me being a yapper, but, um. Like if you're ever on Twitter, if you're ever talking about stuff, you can always tell that BTS fans and those groups view their sort of idol as like the biggest, or like the top dog. Like if an outsider criticizes their oshi—basically, also known as an idol, like someone they look up to—there have been reports of some of the fans going AWOL and like insane, where they basically hunt down that person and basically post their address publicly. Do you know how scary that would be?
Alina: I can't even imagine.
Ricardo: So we actually have two articles that, uh—we actually have one article that we're gonna share. Uh, Alina, do you wanna go over and discuss that?
Alina: Yes. Um, so let me just pull it out. We have the article—the online community development through social interactions. Um, and then we have—which one did you want me to—
Ricardo: Uh, we'll go with the first one, then we'll talk about the second one.
Alina: Okay. So the first article we have here is "Online Community Development through Social Interaction: K-Pop Stan Twitter as a Community of Practice." Um, and this article was published by Routledge, um, Taylor and Francis Group. Um, by Ra Malik and Sham Haar.
Ricardo: Perfect. I love those pronunciations.
Alina: I'm not very good, so I'm sorry.
Ricardo: No, it's fine. Me neither.
Alina: Um, and this article pretty much just—um, similar, uh—the study on K-Pop on Twitter, um, found that Twitter can function as a learning community where people interact, share ideas, and feel connected. Um, and—sorry. I'm like—
Ricardo: Oh, go ahead. Take your time.
Alina: Um, the simple summary of this article is that the study shows that Twitter can be more than just social media. It's a place where, um, people learn and find connection. Um, and everyone in this community—it was, you know, it was fans of K-Pop.
Ricardo: Yeah, like there's a term over here that I'm looking at. It's called "Stan"—like the name? S-T-A-N. That's what people call themselves when they're looking up to a certain K-Pop idol, anyone from BTS, BLACKPINK, or anyone else. But a stan is just like, they really look up to that certain idol.
Like, are you a stan of anyone? Like, do you look up to anybody—celebrity or not?
Alina: I mean, I'm sure I do. I feel like we all look up to someone in some way. Off the top of my head, I can't think of who I would say specifically at this moment, but I feel like everyone pretty much has that, where they look up to some type of celebrity for something.
Ricardo: Yeah. I—like, back when I was still doing swimming, like when I was in elementary school, I kind of looked up to Michael Phelps. 'Cause like—he's an Olympic swimmer. I wanted to swim, but like, I didn't want to compete or anything, so that was pretty weird. I don't know. But yeah.
When you were just saying about Twitter as a whole, like it talks about making online friendships and personal lives and even just like expressing worries. Because, do you know how dangerous being an idol could be, in terms of like any type of society, when you're such a big celebrity?
Alina: Right. Yes. Like I—I personally can't even—like, I'm a mom, but I'm worried about, like, if I do something wrong, like what example I'm showing to my son, his friends, and people who look up to me. So I can't imagine being someone's idol and being famous and having all these people looking up to me—and like, what if I mess up? Or what if I send them the wrong message or example? Like, that would be so much pressure.
Ricardo: Yeah. Because idol groups as a whole—and when we're talking about K-Pop specifically—they have like this really strict regimen where they have to be like perfect, like no flaws whatsoever. They have to look perfect 24/7, they have to sing on key 24/7. Basically, their whole lives are just being documented. Everything's on camera, and if they mess up even once, it's game over for them, and their fans are just gonna go like AWOL and stuff. Yeah.
Alina: I can't imagine having all that pressure. I don't know that I'd even wanna have all that pressure.
Ricardo: Yeah. And online, like on Twitter, these communities, these stans are making "edits"—also known as like a compilation video, or like a bunch of razzle-dazzles of just like beautifying their oshi, basically their idol, their number one person to look up to. And they post these edits so many times a day of just like—it's basically propaganda to be like, hey, this is why you support this person, 'cause they're hot, they're sexy, they're beautiful, blah, blah, blah. Just all about their looks and singing potential.
Alina: Yeah.
Ricardo: But yeah, go ahead.
Alina: No, go ahead. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you.
Ricardo: No, it's fine. But like, it is kind of scary when we're talking about like your life being documented. 'Cause not only do you gotta worry about like your Korean fans, your homeland, but you also gotta worry about overseas fans and how they would react.
Alina: Yeah. And it's just—I feel like it's just so much easier to be a normal person, but then again, it must be kind of cool to be famous. Um, and I also feel like it's also like constant judgment. Like everything an idol posts—I feel like everyone, whether it be on social media, like you said, it could be overseas, in Korea, wherever you are—everyone is always watching what you're doing. And just the simplest tweet or mistake can lead to millions of reactions, whether they're good or bad.
Um, another thing is, unfortunately, there's always that option for like negative comments and hate, because not all fans are gonna be kind. Um, and I feel like idols, as much as they might have so many fans, they could also receive so much criticism and hate and have that spread very fast on Twitter and on social media.
Ricardo: Yeah. It's like you mess up once and it's like game over. People will switch on you.
Alina: You don't have a chance.
Ricardo: You don't have a chance to make up for yourself. They switch on you constantly. It's like they support you one day and then they'll just be like, oh, nope—they said a no-no word, I'm not supporting them anymore. It's over, and I'm gonna spread hate comments. The internet is just very scary as a whole.
Alina: It definitely is. And I feel like also—they have no lack of privacy. Like fans always want updates and interaction, and they're always being watched. Like they have no privacy. Like I wonder, can they even go on vacation with their families for a week and just have no one know where they are, not be watched, like just be normal? I don't know.
Ricardo: Yeah. It's like—I've seen this one video where K-Pop fans got like very, very—what's the word I'm looking for—parasocial. Do you know what the term "parasocial" means?
Alina: I do not.
Ricardo: So parasocial is, um, the term where you, like, you think to yourself that you are connected to like a YouTuber, or some sort of internet celebrity or celebrity as a whole, that you wanna be with them constantly. Like you think that they know you. Like it's, it's an internal, like—oh, I know this person deep down. But meanwhile, you're only seeing their content. You don't know them as a person. You know them as a streamer, a content creator, and a celebrity.
And one K-Pop fan, he got very, very parasocial where they're, like, stalking the idols. They found out where they live. They even like hunted them down to like their—like their, their studio. In what we have like a studio apartment, like a one bedroom, one bathroom, but over there they have apartments in their studio building where they sing. And it got very, very crazy, where some fans are just like—they go into that building trespassing. And other times, like once they see the car of an idol, they're like hovering over the limo trying to get into it and like stopping traffic. Like, do you know how scary that would be?
Alina: I like—that's, yeah, I can't even imagine. Even myself—like, yeah, I'm—we're all a fan of someone, right? I can't imagine ever taking it to that level where I'd care that much. Like, even the most I do is go to like a concert if it's a singer or whatever. And I wouldn't even care to, like—I don't idol anyone that much that I'd wanna stalk them to that level. Like I might like their music, or, um, you know, I follow them, but I, I feel like I wouldn't wanna stalk anyone to that extent.
Ricardo: I, I don't know how people can stalk. It's like, I don't know what goes through their brain. Like, I get it that you can be a fan. Like you have their merch, like you have—
Alina: Yeah. Yeah, like I get just being like a normal fan. But I've even gone to, like with my son—I've taken him to like NBA games where there's people that will pay like $6,000 to sit courtside and then be hanging over the railing, screaming, crying, trying to get a signature. Like I can't—like I have basketball players that I like. He has basketball players that he likes. But nothing would be worth—like, what does the signature really mean to you, to go to that extent?
Ricardo: Like, the concept of just like, oh, I have it and you don't. Or like, having it framed in your room—
Alina: Crazy. I'm like, I'd rather take that $6,000 and go on vacation than see a famous person for a minute.
Ricardo: I'd rather sell the signature for like 65K.
Alina: Do something else with the money.
Ricardo: Yeah. I'd rather sell it, but I dunno. Do you wanna talk about the, uh, second article and see how that helps relate to the other article?
Alina: Sure. Let me just pull it up.
Ricardo: I have it already.
Alina: Sorry. My computer is like—I, it's terrible. I have to like—
Ricardo: No, it's fine. I get it. I have a Dell and sometimes it's just stupid sometimes.
Alina: Okay, so the second article we looked at was—um, it's from Springer Nature Link, um, BMC Medical Education. And the title is "A Twitter-Facilitated Professional Learning Community: Online Participation, Connections, and Satisfaction." Um, and this article basically did a survey, um, which—a survey invitation was emailed using a medical education email list. Um, and it was posted during the weekly Twitter conversations to solicit participants who had been involved in any kind of MedEd chat activities. Um, an example would be reading transcripts or directly participating in discussions. 68 people, uh, responded to this survey, and basically the study provided, um, implications for using Twitter as a professional learning community to connect and conduct online discussion activities.
Ricardo: Okay.
Alina: Um, and facilitators could think of ways to improve participation by providing tutorials on how to participate in Twitter discussions. Um, introduce or ask new participants to introduce themselves, facilitate discussion with questions, and invite medical educators of different roles, as well as medical students, to join in to bring in diverse perspectives.
Ricardo: Yeah. When we're talking about that, it's like there are many sides to Twitter, and how when we're talking about K-Pop is one thing, but there could be like multiple sides to Twitter and like how the algorithm functions. And think about it like this—when you have like one set of your own algorithm and then you get a few posts here and there, the algorithm changes to get to that post. So my thing is, like, how would you have a study done if you're trying to only talk about med school? You'd have to have like a brand new Twitter account and just only start liking med stuff to even get there.
But the community—what's the word I'm looking for? Like how a community forms and how a community functions. Um. I'm trying to think of a word right now. I'm always blanking on these things for some reason.
Alina: Me too. Brain freeze.
Ricardo: Like, the form of a community could be like many different sets of bubbles. Like, do you have Twitter or TikTok or something that you use on the daily?
Alina: I use TikTok, and you know what—me, myself, I pretty much just whatever pops up on my For You page and I just scroll and send reels to friends. That's pretty much the extent that I use it.
Ricardo: Yeah, I like how we can form like different communities. Like, that all depends on your own algorithm, you were saying.
Alina: I know. I just felt like this article really, um—you know, it shows what virtual community looks like in real life. Um.
Ricardo: Yeah.
Alina: And it's not just—a virtual community isn't just social media. I just feel like it's any group of people who interact online, um, around a shared purpose. Like the other article we talked about, it was K-Pop—it was the music fans. Mm-hmm. And this is medical students and resident doctors, um, together in their groups.
Ricardo: Yeah, I know. Like I'm trying to go to a convention soon, and when I'm seeing that—like, along with the medical students, for example, like they have their own separate bubble and how their community functions. And I'm over on my side just like seeing a bunch of people getting ready for cosplays and stuff, getting ready to pack a lot of bags to go to the city to get merch. And it's like reading this, you can already visualize how a community forms—like between K-Pop, med students, and even basketball communities as a whole. They all have their separate spheres, and it all depends on like who you are as a person that basically just waltzed right into it and enjoys the community.
Alina: Yeah, a hundred percent. And I feel like, um, another thing this article kind of highlights is how virtual communities, um—like, you know, they replaced physical spaces. And I don't know if it's just because of COVID, when there was that time when we couldn't be in classrooms or hospitals—but I feel like it became more popular for online groups to form virtual communities and become essentially our learning spaces. Like even classes now, I feel like we have more options to take classes online and meet on Zoom than we did before. 'Cause I feel like we were forced into learning this way, and forced into these online things, and they kind of just stuck. Um, I just feel like virtual communities really can replace physical communities.
Ricardo: Yeah, definitely. I think COVID changed the whole world in terms of that. Now online communities are just really, really popular right now.
Alina: And I feel like online you could literally find a virtual community for anything. Any interest you have—really anything—you can find it, whether it be on TikTok, Instagram, Twitter. You can find a space of people with that same shared interest as you and be a part of that community.
Ricardo: All right. Thank you for your talk. I think that's all we have time for today. Uh, do you have any final words?
Alina: Um, I hope everyone enjoys the rest of this rainy day, and—
Ricardo: Oh yeah.
Alina: We'll see you again.
Ricardo: All right. See you again. Thank you for being here. Bye-bye.
Alina: Bye.